--- Day changed Fri Feb 06 2009 00:02 < gene> who's he? 00:02 < gene> how was the meeting? 00:02 < kanzure> it was ok 00:03 < kanzure> David Treadwell. well, he's a material scientist 00:03 < kanzure> you'd like him 00:03 < kanzure> I found him on the internet 00:03 < kanzure> and he's consequently been lost clicking around my website for the past few months 00:03 < kanzure> he's interested in an austin fablab initiative (also, check the openmanufacturing list, somebody has 4,000 sq ft available) 00:03 < kanzure> (here in Austin) 00:04 < gene> does he work with graphene? 00:04 < gene> excellent 00:04 < kanzure> oh I'm sure :) 00:04 < kanzure> has an elements collection, btw 00:05 < gene> now how far away is the space available from here? 00:05 < kanzure> no idea 00:05 < gene> bike ride, bus ride, or car? 00:05 < kanzure> :( 00:05 < kanzure> don't know 00:06 < kanzure> anyway, it's kind of hard keeping track of all of these Davids 00:40 < kanzure> 4~asking 00:44 < kanzure> S Congress and Ben White 00:44 < kanzure> "When do you want me to come and get you" 00:44 < kanzure> bwahahah 00:51 < kanzure> okay, am going tomorrow at 4 pm 03:55 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has quit [] 03:57 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:38 -!- splicer [n=patrik@h71n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:49 -!- gene [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-98-98.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:22 -!- mindspillage [n=kat@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:00 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:15 < fenn> wow that's my keyboard 08:15 < fenn> close enough 08:16 < fenn> in http://www.nlcnet.org/article.php?id=613 09:07 -!- kanzure2- [i=bryan@dhcp-84-248.me.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:09 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:43 < kanzure> odd, 09:43 < kanzure> wiggio.com has been spreading around a bit, all viral like 09:43 < kanzure> first I got notified of it from Dr. Sata (biofuel work) 09:44 < kanzure> now via the plutopia mailing list (austin area people who are trying to do meta dorkbot and meta robotgroup) 09:45 < fenn> now that you've done your bit as a meme propogator you get to relax 09:45 < kanzure> well 09:45 < kanzure> I was going to rant and complain about it 09:45 < fenn> no such thing as bad publicity is there? 09:45 < kanzure> "project management .. BUT WEBZ 2.0 ohs! rawr!" 09:46 < kanzure> okay, sorry :( 09:46 < fenn> ugh.. they want my cell phone number? come on 09:46 < kanzure> who does? 09:46 < fenn> hah "pick one: i'm in: college/high school/real world" 09:47 < kanzure> so this 4,000 sq ft space that I'm going to later today, 09:47 < kanzure> it turns out that Leslie was the original tour de force behind the Austin TechShop project 09:47 < fenn> web 2.0 is the whole proprietary format shit all over again, why can't people see this? 09:47 < kanzure> he even hired an MBA to craft a business plan (what the fuck?) 09:48 < kanzure> and they realized that techshop sucked 09:48 < kanzure> economics-wise. 09:48 < fenn> 1) make a cool space 2) ??? 3) profit! 09:48 < kanzure> also because techshop is top-down brand lock-in 09:48 < kanzure> "you must use our vendors for all of this equipment. rawr" 09:48 < fenn> yeah there's no benefit for franchising 09:48 < fenn> since all the equipment is locally sourced and probably secondhand anyway 09:48 < fenn> i doubt there's a patent on a "bin wall" 09:48 < kanzure> so anyway, Leslie seems to agree with the "make your own tools" (to some extent) or at least "cheap shit until we can make better shit" 09:49 < fenn> of course 09:49 < kanzure> I'm not convinced that the health club model is a good idea 09:49 < fenn> the problem is people arent willing to spend that much money on a workspace because of the perceived "low class" nature of fabrication 09:49 < kanzure> Rauchwerk and I like the "four or five mechanical engineers doing contract projects at about $20k each which would fund the shop for about a year" 09:49 < kanzure> so if we can do the consulting gigs, that should pay for it 09:49 < kanzure> then keep it open for community to go in and out 09:50 < kanzure> and attempt to do some super uber culture cultivating better than fablab 09:50 < kanzure> don't know how I plan to do that though.. hrm 09:50 < fenn> ToolBook 09:50 < kanzure> :) 09:50 < kanzure> having a plan is one thing, but I mean to have it sustainable and healthy 09:50 < fenn> blah.. toolbook.com and toolbook.org are occupied 09:50 < kanzure> I'm all for toolbook of course 09:51 < kanzure> tlbk.org ? 09:51 < fenn> nah just change the name 09:51 < fenn> books are for geezers anyway 09:51 < kanzure> tooltxt :p 09:51 < kanzure> anywho, I'm really against the health club model. 09:51 < kanzure> mostly because I'm not going to be able to afford that 09:52 < kanzure> and also because I notice that fablab funds itself via government grants, so we can get that going here 09:52 < fenn> guh.. what? 09:52 < kanzure> Todd Huffman, Amy Sun and such would be happy to help with that if that's the path we take 09:52 < kanzure> yes, "hey NSF, we're doing cool shit, fund us!" 09:52 < fenn> what does fablab get grants from? 09:52 < kanzure> "everywhere" 09:52 < fenn> and why is NSF funding a technology initiative? 09:52 < fenn> or is fablab supposed to be about education 09:53 < kanzure> they basically flail their arms about and try to get funding and grants from as many places as possible 09:53 < kanzure> it's education, or "bringing stuff to the third world" 09:53 < kanzure> that's why Amy Sun sent out that recent round of emails 09:53 < kanzure> don't know if I forwarded those to you 09:53 < kanzure> but basically she was confused and there was a fablab created (how the fuck does this happen?) 09:53 < kanzure> and she had to pick up the costs 09:53 < fenn> "geeks of the world: unite!"? 09:53 < kanzure> right right 09:53 < kanzure> and so she was trying to cover the expenses until the grants start to kick in 09:54 < kanzure> via donations from geeks of the world et al. 09:54 < fenn> yeah i think her publicity method is possibly flawed 09:54 < fenn> better to make some webpage and get it on digg or slashdot 09:54 < kanzure> she disclosed some of that via chat actually, so that might be why you don't know it 09:55 < fenn> is that what eventually happened? 09:55 < kanzure> hm? 09:55 < kanzure> yes, they eventually got a website rolling 09:55 < kanzure> http://fablab.af/ 09:55 < fenn> foolbox.org <- good name? 8) 09:56 < kanzure3_> http://wiki.fablab.af/index.php/Fablab_links hrm. 09:56 < kanzure> that's the first time I've seen any collection of links related to fablabs actually 09:56 < kanzure> good for them.. 09:56 < kanzure> about damn time. 09:56 < fenn> god the fablab stuff is so scattered 09:57 < kanzure> fabfolk was supposedly an attempt to get it all unified or something 09:57 < kanzure> but it sucks 09:57 < fenn> and 90% of the documentation is just random flickr photos 09:57 < kanzure> right 09:57 < kanzure> because they need to be shot 09:57 < fenn> i wonder if it even makes sense if you're physically present 09:58 < kanzure> so I want to make sure that if a fablab does happen here in Austin, we fix these problems. 09:58 < kanzure> 4,000 sq ft is more than enough to house you :p 09:59 < fenn> heh all i need is a pallet 09:59 < kanzure> no internet connection in the shop at the moment, "but this can be fixed as soon as it becomes an issue" 09:59 < fenn> well i'd probably shrivel up and die without a net connection 10:00 < kanzure> right 10:00 < kanzure> I wonder why this space is just sitting there 10:00 < kanzure> why aren't I living in there 10:01 < fenn> oo right under the freeway 10:04 < fenn> do you have an actual street address? 10:04 < kanzure> no 10:05 < kanzure> 4.9 mi from me. not bad 10:06 < kanzure> 3.6 mi from Max More .. 10:18 < fenn> dan heeks is kicking ass on the CAD/CAM front: http://heekscnc.blogspot.com/2009/02/area-clearance.html 10:19 < kanzure3_> http://code.google.com/p/libarea/source/browse/trunk/test.py 10:39 < fenn> more self-fellating from TED: http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/02/we-are-becoming-a-new-species-we-are-becoming-homo-evolutis.ars 10:41 < fenn> something on-topic for once, my god! 11:08 < fenn> bwaaha “Gates releases more bugs into the world” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/microsoft/4524578/Bill-Gates-unleash-swarm-of-mosquitoes-at-TED-2009.html 11:56 < wrldpc> homo evolutis? ffs 12:03 < kanzure3_> http://www.metanexus.net/magazine/Default.aspx Natasha has organized some response to the "Global Spiral Speciial Issue on Transhumanism" 12:19 < kanzure> hm 12:19 < kanzure> James Choate thinks that "the fab should not be the central role" 12:19 < fenn> what is "the central role"? 12:20 < kanzure> well apparently he's thinking the austin fab-thing (he wants more of a "Leonardo's Basement") 12:20 < kanzure> should not be focused on "fabbing" 12:20 < kanzure> but instead on "something that the community will pay for" 12:20 < kanzure> bleh 12:22 < kanzure3_> http://lists.puremagic.com/pipermail/robotgroup/2009-February/011733.html 12:22 < fenn> leonardo's basement is pay-for-education 12:22 < fenn> something i find troubling 12:22 < kanzure3_> me too.. I actually even expressed that in my last email to James- 12:22 < fenn> pay-for-access that also happens to provide education is fine though 12:22 < kanzure3_> http://lists.puremagic.com/pipermail/robotgroup/2009-February/011732.html 12:22 < kanzure3_> hm 12:23 < fenn> what are the costs, first of all? 12:23 < fenn> the way i see it machinery is more or less free, with shipping costs 12:23 < kanzure> huh? 12:23 < kanzure> you mean, donated equipment? 12:24 < fenn> so that leaves: rent, electricity, maintenance 12:24 < fenn> no, i mean purchased equipment 12:24 < fenn> large stuff that you arent likely to have in a basement 12:24 < fenn> in fact, the larger they are the cheaper, supply/demand thing 12:24 < kanzure> I don't know what to say to James 12:25 < kanzure> "The fundamental problem with the perspective I'm seeing pitched is the -central- role of the fab. It's a misplaced focus." 12:25 < fenn> what is DH? 12:25 < kanzure> "Discovery Hall" 12:26 < fenn> oceanography? 12:46 < fenn> gosh james choate sure has a lot of preconceived notions 12:46 < kanzure> what do you think? 12:47 < kanzure3_> http://lists.puremagic.com/pipermail/robotgroup/2009-February/author.html#11732 12:47 < kanzure3_> http://lists.puremagic.com/pipermail/robotgroup/2009-February/011718.html he cites esa.int, leonardo's basement, techshop, pyrorobotics, sciencecommons, 12:47 < kanzure3_> so it *seems* like he's from the right scene 12:48 < fenn> and then in the next post he goes and undoes everything he just said.. wtf 12:55 < kanzure3_> http://www.davidnunez.com/ 13:01 < fenn> so after reading that whole thread i'm totally confused 13:01 < kanzure3_> hm? 13:01 < fenn> does james want to charge for classes or not? 13:01 < kanzure3_> not that I'm not. 13:01 < kanzure3_> heh 13:01 < kanzure3_> I phoned him, but he's "busy" 13:02 < kanzure3_> apparently he has a day job but enough time to write emails to the list? wtf? 13:22 < fenn> on metajournaling: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidnunez/4025142/in/photostream/ 13:23 < fenn> any idea how to get a higher rez version? 13:31 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has quit [] 14:36 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@c-98-217-184-253.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:39 -!- wrldpc_ [n=ben@c-98-217-190-207.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:59 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@c-98-217-184-253.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:55 -!- wrldpc_ [n=ben@c-98-217-190-207.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:31 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:47 -!- Netsplit hubbard.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: UtopiahGHML 16:48 -!- Netsplit over, joins: UtopiahGHML 16:57 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:57 < xp_prg> hi anyone here? 17:28 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@c-98-217-184-253.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:29 -!- wrldpc_ [n=ben@c-98-217-190-207.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:48 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@c-98-217-184-253.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:04 < fenn> holy crap dan heeks is tearin' it up: http://heekscnc.blogspot.com/2009/02/arc-pocketing.html 18:13 -!- gene [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-93-215.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:13 < gene> you back kanzure? 18:13 < gene> guess what? 18:13 < gene> That supercomputer they have is a surgeon 18:13 < fenn> it's a large river fish? 18:15 < gene> no fenn 18:15 < gene> a supercomputer did surgery on a dog 18:15 < gene> with a laser beam 18:20 < fenn> this is interesting; apparently opencascade is actually free software: http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2007/12/msg00066.html 18:20 < gene> computer models how the tissue conducts heat, figures out the right power level to fire the laser at so it only kills the tumor 18:21 < gene> seems a bit overkill to me though... 18:21 < gene> unless their simulating individual cells and taking blood flow into account 18:22 < fenn> for most purposes you can just pretend it's water 18:23 < gene> must be weird laser heat transfer 18:24 < gene> well I guess in future videogames, I'll have a a truly realistic graphics of a laser wound 18:25 < fenn> nobody would know the difference 18:25 < fenn> if they made video games like real war people would be bored to tears 18:25 < fenn> fortunately we have the US military to spice things up 18:25 < fenn> (by making war like video games) 18:25 < gene> haven't you ever played desert bus? 18:26 < fenn> nup 18:27 < fenn> sounds like a job for a robot 18:27 < gene> indeed 18:28 < fenn> or maybe something to do in school to pass the time 18:30 -!- wrldpc_ [n=ben@c-98-217-190-207.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:31 < gene> oh god 18:31 < gene> no 18:31 < gene> the scary thing about desert bus, is that there are actually tournaments 18:35 < fenn> yeah i'm reading desertbus.org 18:36 < fenn> they went for 5 days taking 4 hour shifts 18:36 < gene> jeez 18:36 < gene> did they do it continuously? 18:36 < fenn> ... and raised $70k for their charity in the process 18:36 < gene> well at least it's good for something 18:36 < fenn> yeah the game only gives you a couple seconds to turn around 18:38 < gene> btw, you wouldn't happen to know anything about 1/4 inch hose barb connectors? 18:38 < fenn> as a matter of fact i do 18:40 * fenn wonders why mcmaster is showing him "feminine hygiene products" 18:43 < gene> mcmaster sells that? 18:43 < fenn> tampon dispensers and sanitary napkins 18:44 < fenn> case qty 500 18:44 < gene> hahaha 18:45 < fenn> i thought there were cad files for like every mcmaster product 18:46 < gene> damn homedepot, won't display their whole product list 18:46 < fenn> i must say i really dig mcmaster's style 18:46 < fenn> even if their page wont give me urls! 18:47 < fenn> just look at those clocks.. beautiful 18:47 < fenn> http://www.mcmaster.com/#office-products/=ho061 18:53 < gene> just what I need a clock 20:06 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:56 -!- mindspillage [n=kat@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:03 -!- gene [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-93-215.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:06 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:06 -!- gene [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-93-215.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:09 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:13 < gene> kanzure? 21:13 < gene> you there? 23:07 < kanzure> Woah. Holy shit. 23:07 < kanzure> We have ourselves a fablab. 23:07 < fenn> what's new? 23:07 < fenn> i mean, uh, what are you talking about? 23:07 < kanzure> 4,000 sq ft :) 23:08 < kanzure> he's totally on board with the whole open source hardware packaging and "buy a kit at a certain point to get it when you don't want to bootsrap it Gingery-style" 23:08 < kanzure> he's a Gingery fan :) 23:08 < fenn> what are the strings attached? 23:08 < kanzure> well, I spent six hours with him] 23:08 < kanzure> I can't see any 23:09 < fenn> wow 23:09 < kanzure> I need to go down to get some food, will be right back 23:09 < kanzure> yeah 23:09 < kanzure> so I think you need to talk with him 23:10 < kanzure> see, he's already put in $100k into this before 23:10 < kanzure> when it was the Austin TechShop project,' 23:10 < kanzure> but then they realized techshop sucks and doesn't have a viable business model 23:11 < fenn> put $100k into what? i mean where did that money go? 23:11 < kanzure> well, it was more like $30k overall apparently, but the other amount is more like lost wages from his consulting gigs that he stopped while he was working on austin techshop 23:11 < kanzure> the money was put into the MBA to come up with the business plan for the austin techshop 23:11 < fenn> custom furniture designer, is that right? 23:11 < kanzure> and consequently realize that it was fucked 23:11 < kanzure> somewhat, yes 23:11 < kanzure> btw, there was a mechmate 23:12 < fenn> did you see the space? 23:20 < kanzure> yes 23:21 < kanzure> he's thinking of renting some rooms in the space 23:21 < kanzure> to cover costs 23:28 < kanzure> so, inventory ideas 23:28 < kanzure> have just become a very real issue 23:28 < kanzure> especially for dispensing lots and lots of little tiny washers etc. 23:31 < fenn> at twenty times the speed of sound? 23:33 < fenn> wondering why these ebook readers havent made it mainstream yet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z16J2zRAbgc 23:33 < fenn> 8.5"x11"x0.25" 23:34 < fenn> what do you mean "inventory ideas"? 23:34 < fenn> like tracking software? 23:34 < fenn> or robots that move things around? 23:34 < kanzure> both 23:34 < kanzure> specifically for supplies, 23:35 < kanzure> for instance, how are you going to get people to sign documents every time they pick out a washer? 23:35 < kanzure> which is a terrible thing to do, nickle and diming people, 23:35 < kanzure> even if it's just for keeping track 23:35 < fenn> hmm 23:35 < kanzure> I'd find it terribly hard to sign out a washer each time I needed one 23:35 < fenn> but what if it was really easy, easier than getting it out of a bin 23:35 < kanzure> :) 23:35 < kanzure> I suggested convenience machines 23:35 < fenn> like cat bom > /dev/checkout 23:36 < kanzure> but he argued that it would be way too many different types for a single convenience machine 23:36 < kanzure> right 23:36 < fenn> i'm not convinced 23:36 < kanzure> :) 23:36 < kanzure> neither am I 23:36 < fenn> odd shaped stuff goes in regularly shaped containers 23:36 < kanzure> and I'm sure as hell not going to stand there all day handing out shit 23:37 < fenn> then you have: powder/liquid/granulated materials, sheets, film, wire, and bars 23:37 < fenn> i guess there's also stuff like frozen concentrated orange juice, but whatever 23:41 < kanzure> so he's thinking of putting up 5 to 10 little 10x6 "private rooms" for rent 23:41 < fenn> "work cell" 23:42 < kanzure> and then larger main area with the giant mechmate and other stuff to pile up in there 23:42 < fenn> "private rooms" has a .. connotation 23:42 < kanzure> well, 23:42 < kanzure> he called them rentable space or something 23:42 < kanzure> "private rooms" is just what I typed out 23:42 < kanzure> it probably implies a hookerjoint 23:53 -!- splicer__ [n=patrik@h71n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap