--- Day changed Sat Feb 07 2009
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00:06 < kanzure> so another issue is that we want to do full bootstrapping and kitmaking for other shops.
00:06 < kanzure> I think I might have to go ask Alec and go figure out orgmode :)
00:07 < fenn> too much on your platter?
00:07 < kanzure> no, I mean, I'll figure out orgmode on my own of course
00:07 < kanzure> and yes, 
00:07 < kanzure> if you're willing to take some off my platter for me, ..
00:08 < fenn> what needs doing?
00:08 < kanzure> a business plan? heh'
00:08 < kanzure> I mean, renting is fine, but I can't guarantee him that people would fill up the spots
00:08 < fenn> perhaps you should hire an MBA consultant for a few kilobucks :P
00:08 < kanzure> and he's open to suggestions on other possible ways to do this
00:08 < kanzure> heh
00:09 < fenn> what are the costs?
00:09 < kanzure> total monthly rent, free water, electricity, health inspection (or something like that?)
00:10 < fenn> he's renting the place?
00:10 < kanzure> yes
00:10 < fenn> um, why?
00:10 < kanzure> don't know?
00:11 < fenn> do you know how much rent is?
00:11 < kanzure> $2k/mo
00:12  * fenn grumbles
00:13 < fenn> not insurmountable but enough to require constant attention
00:13 < fenn> that's a CNC mill every month
00:13 < kanzure> I want to go back and do a full inventory of the place re: all of the tools
00:13 < kanzure> I wouldn't mind making a CNC mill every month
00:13 < kanzure> that's kinda the idea
00:14 < fenn> no i mean the materials for a CNC mill cost about $2k (using conventional methods)
00:15 < fenn> are you busy with school?
00:15 < kanzure> sort of.
00:15 < kanzure> less so than last semester, but still I'm busy
00:15 < kanzure> but this can take priority easily
00:16 < kanzure> I was thinking of somehow getting you on the phone with Leslie (Les)
00:16 < kanzure> and then going from there
00:16 < fenn> i'm not very good at the telephone
00:17 < kanzure> hrm, well, email
00:18 < fenn> know his number/schedule?
00:18 < kanzure> his schedule seems to be pretty free, hold on a sec
00:19 < kanzure> Leslie Filip 512 962 6534
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00:20 < kanzure> argh, I need to have had "fabuntu" done *yesterday*
00:21 < fenn> actually things are looking pretty sweet on the linux cad/cam front
00:21 < kanzure> well I mean more for inventory, BOMs, accounting, stuff like that
00:21 < kanzure> CAD/CAM does seem fine, yes
00:22 < fenn> dunno if you saw these links: http://code.google.com/p/libactp/ http://code.google.com/p/libarea/ http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/ http://code.google.com/p/heekscnc/
00:22 < kanzure>  I looked at libarea, but didn't see much 
00:22 < fenn> it's just this thing that i'd been working on for months
00:22 < fenn> and not making any progress ;P
00:23 < fenn> so anyway, you need fablab accounting software
00:23 < fenn> i think they spend too much money anyway
00:23 < kanzure> I guess I need to become a super linux system admin at the minimum
00:24 < fenn> you mean you're not?
00:24 < kanzure> heh
00:24 < kanzure> well, if I was a super admin, it would have already happened
00:24 < fenn> sysadmin != accountant
00:25 < kanzure> blah, but there should be accounting software already
00:25 < fenn> maybe bring it up on OM
00:25 < fenn> now that fawzi's gone we can talk about money in practical terms :)
00:25 < kanzure> didn't Ned Lilly say that he deals specifically with this?
00:25 < kanzure> hah
00:26 < fenn> xTuple, formerly OpenMFG, provides an open source ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning) system for companies of all sizes.
00:26 < fenn> whatever that means
00:27 < fenn> probably some SQL frontend
00:28 < kanzure> yes
00:28 < kanzure> QT GUI thingy
00:28 < fenn>   Product
00:28 < fenn>   Inventory  Schedule
00:28 < fenn>   Purchase  Manufacture
00:28 < fenn>   CRM  Sales
00:28 < fenn>   Accounting  System
00:30 < fenn> just reading this page hurts my soul
00:31 < kanzure> it seems like this is an opportunity to "do things right"
00:31 < fenn> i just want a search engine and a 'buy it now' button
00:31 < kanzure> :)
00:31 < fenn> for the local database that is
00:32 < fenn> i wish yaml werent so finicky
00:33 < fenn> ok i dont think openmfg is worth using
00:33 < kanzure> me either
00:34 < kanzure> somehow Ned makes $14k off of it in consulting fees or something
00:34 < fenn> i'm going to assume that since this is for fablabs that the users will add their own features, so i dont have to have a bunch of crap that nobody really needs
00:35 < kanzure> sure
00:35 < fenn> wait a sec, why did you need fabuntu "yesterday"?
00:35 < kanzure> oh, just a saying.
00:35 < fenn> yeah but why?
00:36 < kanzure> well because if I would have been more confident in myself, I would have worked on that sort of software more I guess
00:36 < kanzure> and then I would have had the software and said "yep, I have this ready to go"
00:36 < kanzure> for just this type of thing to spontaneously happen..
00:36 < kanzure> and here I am, about the only other guy he knows that understands everything he's ranting about
00:36 < kanzure> blah.
00:36 < fenn> heh
00:36 < fenn> seems like there would be lots of people like that in austin
00:37 < fenn> maybe its just the internet getting to me
00:37 < kanzure> "dear lazyweb, please give me a fablab" 
00:37 < kanzure> "okay"
00:37 < kanzure> "WTF"
00:37 < fenn> hey i dont see why not
00:42 < fenn> btw can we never use the word "maker" please :)
00:42 < kanzure> heh
00:42 < kanzure> okay
00:43 < fenn> i feel like i'm hearing an ad for make zine every time i hear that word
00:43 < kanzure3_> well, you are.
00:44 < fenn> bah fabuntu.org got sniped
00:44 < kanzure3_> and that's why I archived.
00:44 < fenn> yeah but the domain name is still important
00:45 < fenn> i mean it was never "implemented" in the first place
00:45 < fenn> so the idea is all that matters
00:46 < fenn> and the domain name is a large part of the idea
00:46 < kanzure3_> oh right.
00:46 < kanzure3_> I thought you thought the domain name sucked?
00:46 < fenn> i dont remember
00:47 < fenn> it might have been one of my cyclical "i hate the world and especially fablab" phases
00:47 < kanzure3_> it's ok, we all hate each other or something
00:47 < kanzure3_> :p
00:48 -!- fenn changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: "dear lazyweb, please give me a fablab" "okay"
00:48 < fenn> so i'm going to be inventorying my crap, and building an inventory app at the same time
00:48 < fenn> ostensibly
00:49 < fenn> but i think its bedtime for me today
00:49 < kanzure3_> same here, but music first or something
00:49 < fenn> damn programming projects are piling up lately
00:50 < fenn> you know how to rotate things in opengl?
00:50 < kanzure3_> um, translate3f ?
00:50 < kanzure3_> blargh, where's my opengl superbible
00:50 < kanzure3_> still at the dead house
00:50 < fenn> glRotatef(a,b,c)
00:50 < kanzure3_> s/dead/death/
00:50 < kanzure3_> sounds about right
00:50 < fenn> er glRotatef(theta,x,y,z)
00:51 < fenn> anyway the problem is getting the order right, or something
00:51 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/vismach.py scroll down to Track and look at the apply method
00:52 < fenn> so i have azimuth and elevation but i cant figure out how to rotate the damn object to those angles
00:52 < kanzure3_> hrm, are you sure it should come after glPushMatrix() ?
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00:53 < fenn> that sets the origin at 0 so when i rotate it doesnt rotate around the center of the scene (i think)
00:53 < kanzure3_> the others have glRotatef before glPushMatrix, btw
00:53 < kanzure3_> the other methods I mean, like in CylinderX somewhere
00:53 < kanzure3_> oh
00:57 < kanzure3_>     #glPushMatrix()
00:57 < kanzure3_>     #glTranslatef(-3.0, -2.0, 0.0)
00:57 < kanzure3_>     #glRotatef(angle, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0)
00:57 < kanzure3_>     #glCallList(gear1)
00:57 < kanzure3_>     #glPopMatrix()
00:58  * kanzure3_ found Ray's "The Singularity is Near" on one of the bookshelfs
00:59 < kanzure3_> http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/06/crowdsourced-science.html  
00:59 < kanzure3_> how to do a gel in a straw
00:59 < kanzure3_> hah
00:59 < fenn> i made boingboing?
00:59 < kanzure3_> yes :)
00:59 < fenn> and i didnt even have to do anything!
00:59 < kanzure3_> amazing!
01:00 < fenn> too bad they got the credit wrong
01:00 < kanzure3_> :(
01:01 < kanzure3_> "
01:01 < kanzure3_> This was a recent topic of discussion on the DIYbio mailing list. Ben Lipkowitz wondered whether it would be possible to use a narrow, rigid tube to contain the gel, rather than a big carrier. This would allow for the use of less buffer and lower voltage, since a physically smaller amount of gel is a smaller resistor."
01:01  * fenn investigates "keiki" stuff
01:01 < kanzure3_> http://maradydd.livejournal.com/417631.html
01:01 < kanzure3_> ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiki
01:02 < kanzure3_> "We're calling these "keiki gels" because they're so small and cute -- and so simple, even a little kid can do them."
01:02 < kanzure3_> "This should lend itself to easy mass production: take a largish tub, mix water and agar-agar in it and dump a couple of whole-sale packages of drinking straws in the tub.
01:02 < kanzure3_> Lift each straw back out, pinching the ends, and put it to cool and set.
01:02 < kanzure3_> And in a few hours, you've a years supply of phoresis tubes."
01:19 < fenn> heh google groups doesnt do a very good job of hiding email addresses
01:20 < fenn> oh nevermind that's my google account
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03:05 < fenn> http://garethbranwyn.com/borg.html this is funny because its the guy who wrote http://streettech.com/bcp/
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08:31 < kanzure3_> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/members?&sort=date&order=rev 583 members
08:42 < kanzure3_> http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Nut_20Vending_20Machine   
08:42 < kanzure3_> "Vending machine for nuts (the hardware type). For each type and thread of nut, have a long screw with a small motor (you could even have a hand-turned version). The screw is covered in nuts, in a hex-shaped hole. When money is deposited, the screw turns a fixed number of times for your selected product, and the nut falls off the end of the screw."
08:43 < kanzure3_> "Fastenal—a vending machine that dispenses nuts and bolts."
08:43 < kanzure3_> http://www.fastenal.com/content/solutions/
08:43 < kanzure3_> "SmartStore is a secure, fully-automated Fastenal store right in your location. Fastenal's exclusive SmartStore service provides you with the latest online Industrial Vending Technology. Local Fastenal Store personnel manage the inventory for you and keep your SmartStore stocked. Best of all, you only pay for the products you use."
08:44 < kanzure3_> http://www.fastenal.com/content/solutions/smartstore.shtml
08:45 < kanzure3_> http://www.wickedblog.com/2007/02/17/open-source-vending-machine/   "freedom toaster" burns software.
08:45 < kanzure3_> http://www.freedomtoaster.org/?q=Build
09:18 < fenn> hahaha that's awesome
09:22 < kanzure3_> http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2006/celebdatabase/keanureeves/keanu_reeves1ALT_300_400.jpg  <- Les might as well be his twin
09:33 < fenn> i like the rfid lockers http://www.fastenal.com/content/solutions/pdf/smartstore.pdf
09:34 < fenn> on the last page
09:37 < kanzure3_> I wonder how this dispenses nuts and bolts
09:37 < kanzure3_> I guess you could do it by the bag
09:37 < kanzure3_> and then when you get stuff in the mail, sort it into little baggies
11:36 < kanzure3_> http://www.slashgear.com/wearable-projection-computer-project-internet-sixth-sense-0633300/
11:37 < kanzure3_> upcreation
11:37 < kanzure3_> http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2007/03/bootstrapping_t.php
11:37 < kanzure3_> Les mentioned "upcreation"
11:37 < kanzure3_> but it just links over to Kevin Kelly's The Technium article on David Gingery
11:37 < kanzure3_> blah
11:40 < kanzure3_> http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=499 steam engine schematics
11:49 < kanzure> hm, Smari suggests letting the small stuff go for free, but then adding 10% of the price on the big stuff (like microcontroller boards etc.)
11:50 < kanzure> and also asking people to give rough estimates of what they've used in terms of small stuff
11:50 < kanzure> but this doesn't sound like a good idea
11:50 < kanzure> it would be awesome if I could force everyone to do BOMs
11:53 < kanzure3_> http://www.endesign.com/
12:04 < kanzure3_> "
12:04 < kanzure3_> Our product up in the RRG is OSCAR and the spin out company is Agile Planet."
12:08 < kanzure3_> http://www.armautomation.com/
12:08 < kanzure3_> "A first company ARM Automation made a push for industrial grade,
12:08 < kanzure3_> reconfigurable hardware automation, but found their best revenue sources
12:08 < kanzure3_> didn't come from novel, expensive hardware but simply from the
12:08 < kanzure3_> bunch-of-smart-guys-who-can-solve-your-automation-problems model."
12:50 < kanzure3_> So we have: (1) http://www.instructables.com/id/5_minute_DNA_Extraction_in_a_Shot_Glass/ 
12:50 < kanzure3_> and now there's (2) drinking draw molecular separator http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/06/crowdsourced-science.html
12:50 < kanzure3_> that's not a bad start. (3) ???
12:52 < kanzure3_> methlyene blue is available at fish supply stores?
13:00 < fenn> yep, antifungal treatment
13:17 < gene> kanzure
13:17 < gene> guess what
13:19 < gene> you can do ligation with DNA polymerase
13:19 < gene> in extension PCR
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13:32 < kanzure> David Nunez, David Treadwell, David Rauchwerk, David Dalrymple, screw this. No more "Davids" allowed in the open source hardware scene. :p
13:45 < kanzure3_> http://wiki.fablab.af/index.php/Operating_procedures
13:45 < kanzure3_> http://img.cba.mit.edu/img/?f=Afghanistan
13:47 < kanzure3_> http://img.cba.mit.edu/img/?v=t&d=070702_Barcelona_4x8workshop_fablab_byTomasDiez
13:55 < gene> http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/06/crowdsourced-science.html
13:55 < gene> holy cow we did it
13:55 < kanzure3_> heh
13:56 < kanzure3_> fun to find out that it worked from boingboing
13:56 < kanzure3_> rather than finding out from us, huh?
13:56 < gene> yeah
13:57 < gene> I think I might start an extension PCR thread
13:57 < gene> extension PCR+ maskless lithography gene synthesis = gene compiler
14:00 < gene> oh yeah, Kanzure I forgot to tell you what the biobrick group is doing here
14:01 < gene> their putting eukaryotic genes into prokaryotes!
14:01 < kanzure3_> I thoguht Ellington no longer wanted to do biobricks.
14:01 < kanzure3_> *thought
14:01 < kanzure3_> is this a different group?
14:01 < gene> *they're
14:01 < gene> different group
14:01 < kanzure3_> which one?
14:01 < gene> eukaryotic gene control sequences
14:01 < gene> not sure
14:02 < kanzure3_> No, what lab group.
14:02 < kanzure3_> Then how do you know?
14:02 < gene> not sure
14:02 < gene> learned about at the undergrad research fair
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14:02 < kanzure3_> I think my six hours at the shop were better spent :)
14:02 < kanzure3_> you'll have to go sometime
14:03 < kanzure3_> bus accessible.
14:04 < gene> six hours!
14:04 < gene> time it takes to get there?
14:04 < kanzure3_> ten minutes?
14:04 < gene> ok
14:04 < kanzure3_> we stopped and ate somewhere for lunch, or dinner or something
14:05 < gene> machines they have there?
14:05 < kanzure3_> I didn't do a full inventory list,
14:05 < kanzure3_> but there's a mechmate, all sorts of vacuum presses and vacuums stuff, drill presses, full woodworking shop,
14:05 < kanzure3_> table saws, drills, plans to start on a lathe soon, etc.
14:06 < gene> no lasercutter?
14:06 < kanzure3_> next time I go back, I'm doing a full inventory (screw this shit)
14:06 < kanzure3_> no laser cutter, but the waterjet is down the street
14:06 < kanzure3_> water cutter thing, I mean
14:06 < gene> price to use?
14:06 < kanzure3_> no idea
14:06 < kanzure3_> to use the water cutter? no idea
14:06 < gene> good enough possibly better
14:06 < kanzure3_> but using this fablab? near zilch
14:07 < gene> 3d printer?
14:07 < kanzure3_> no, but let's make one
14:07 < gene> excellent
14:07 < gene> ummm... about that
14:07 < kanzure3_> he's put in $100k+ into this shop so far, but he wants to bootstrap it
14:07 < gene> the 3d printer is down
14:07 < kanzure3_> this was going to be the Austin TechShop, but he backed out when he realized the business model sucked
14:08 < gene> how's he paying for it?
14:08 < fenn> dear lazy web, please give me a business model
14:08 < kanzure3_> fenn: coworking + consulting. that's what I'm thinking of at this point.
14:08 < gene> ok
14:08 < kanzure3_> gene: out of pocket.
14:09 < gene> the 3d printer shows signs of sabotage
14:09 < kanzure3_> unplugged?
14:09 < fenn> what's that snickering sound?
14:09 < gene> no
14:09 < kanzure3_> fenn: the gnomes.
14:09 < gene> extruder got destroyed
14:09 < gene> there are strange circular marks on the walls
14:10 < fenn> yep sounds like gnomes alright
14:10 < kanzure3_> was there gold dust all over the place?
14:10 < gene> nope
14:10 < fenn> when they swing down from the ceiling on their pirate ropes, their toenails make scratch marks on the walls
14:11 < gene> there was a note saying: "DO NOT BUILD A REPRAP, DO NOT LET SKYNET BECOME SENTIENT"
14:11 < gene> JK
14:11 < kanzure3_> fenn: wouldn't that be the wrong parabolic arc that would be made?
14:11 < gene> the printer is broken though
14:11 < kanzure3_> hm, I guess not
14:11 < gene> broke when printing the xcarriage too
14:12 < fenn> guess you'll just have to make it with materials on hand
14:12 < gene> the biggest part
14:12 < kanzure3_> I had a lot of fun just pushing around the mechmate :p
14:12 < gene> or wait for the printer to get repaired
14:14 < gene> hmmm... I guess you could use a giant fancily carved victorian style sign on your door
14:17 < gene> maybe even carved into your door
14:18 < gene> but good luck sneaking out your door
14:21  * fenn mumbles something about Hektor with a dremel attached
14:22 < kanzure3_> yes, so we were talking about hektor the other day with Dave
14:22 < kanzure3_> "so how would you figure out where it is" asked gene
14:22 < kanzure3_> "well, you'd know the starting position"
14:22 < kanzure3_> "how?" asked gene.
14:22 < kanzure3_> or, rather, he said 
14:22 < kanzure3_> uh
14:22 < kanzure3_> something? and then the response was "or you can just take a picture" and that was the end of that
14:22 < kanzure3_> gee, without that line this sounds kind of stupid
14:22 < kanzure3_> but it's funny.
14:23 < kanzure3_> so, *insert some ridiculously complicated method in place of my inability to remember the actual line
14:23 < fenn> parallel matrix deconvolution
14:23 < gene> noncartesian positioning systems can be a bitch sometimes
14:24 < gene> but not this one
14:24 < gene> it doesn't rotate
14:24 < fenn> we need someone who's proficient in ideonomy
14:24 < gene> it's just acouple easy to calculate vectors
14:25 < kanzure3_> the ideonomy guy quit. I'm sure the job was killing him.
14:25 < fenn> gene: what's the formula for hektor?
14:25 < kanzure3_> isn't this just trigonometry though?
14:26 < kanzure3_> the amount of string to release for each side is just a matter of the angle and current position in terms of vectors and such
14:26 < gene> extracting math data files
14:26 < fenn> you have 2 lengths and from that somehow you end up with x/y coordinates
14:26 < kanzure3_> I mean, that's not clearly stated, but those are the components that you have to consider
14:26 < kanzure3_> right.
14:26 < gene> 3 fenn
14:26 < kanzure3_> hektor did 2,
14:26 < fenn> but it's the "somehow from that" which was never clearly explained
14:26 < kanzure3_> but dave suggested 3
14:26 < fenn> yeah i think 6 is best
14:27 < fenn> fsvo "best"
14:27 < kanzure3_> ok ok screw this shit
14:27 < kanzure3_> let's just do a library that scales up for extra dimensions of movability
14:27 < kanzure3_> so, with just one string hanging down from the side of the building, you should be able to do a line (minus wind)
14:27 < fenn> but we dont have extra dimensions of movability
14:27 < kanzure3_> and then if you have two, then you should be able to model that as well
14:27 < kanzure3_> huh?
14:27 < kanzure3_> well, I was figuring you'd just let people add as many as they want for the situation
14:27 < fenn> there's only 6 degrees of freedom
14:27 < gene> heh
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14:27 < kanzure3_> oh
14:28 < kanzure3_> so model the max, 6, and then just disable parts
14:28 < kanzure3_> *just disable some of them
14:28 < fenn> i dont know how to do that
14:28 < gene> with one string hanging down from a building you could have jets that move the marker carriage around
14:28 < fenn> or gyroscopes!
14:28 < kanzure3_> really? I'll spend a few moments on a piece of paper in a bit, this shouldn't be that hard
14:28 < kanzure3_> this is trivial .. or at least it should be
14:29 < fenn> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/motion_kinematics.html#r1_3
14:29 < kanzure3_> so one thing that people do with this is graffiti
14:29 < kanzure3_> and I was just thinking it would be neat to construct one-time use 2-axis cnc machines for machining the sides of buildings
14:29 < gene> or get rid of the string entirely and have a helicopter graffiti a building then fly away to some well hidden unmarked van that drives away
14:29 < gene> hahahaha
14:30 < gene> disposable CNC machines?
14:30 < kanzure3_> well, for sufficiently large buildings, the effect would far outweigh the price of deploying the cnc machine
14:30 < fenn> you'd need at least 5 cables to properly restrain it, so might as well go with 6
14:30 < kanzure3_> not necessarily disposable, but at least "meh, we don't care if we lose it"
14:30 < kanzure3_> maybe machine your likeness into the side of the building, for instance
14:30 < kanzure3_> Mt. Bishop
14:31 < fenn> i was thinking you set up a giant octahedral truss with a suspended platform and then squirt out the building materials like a giant reprap
14:31 < gene> "mam, my car appears to have broken down"
14:31 < kanzure3_> fenn: are you talking about a giant reprap on the side of a building?
14:31 < kanzure3_> what about the drip factor?
14:32 < kanzure3_> ("why build on the ground when you can build off the wall")
14:32 < gene> "part #,"  "306A",  machine in the background hastily machine part 306A
14:32 < kanzure3_> hm?
14:33 < gene> drip factor enhances some graffiti
14:33 < fenn> no i mean squirting out the whole building structure
14:33 < fenn> drippy graffiti is just lame
14:33 < kanzure3_> material cost, fenn?
14:33 < fenn> possibly less than pouring big slabs of concrete
14:33 < kanzure3_> if you put a reprap on the side of a building, with the nozzle horizontal, I'm pretty sure the plastic would just drip to the ground instead of making anything on the side of the building
14:33 < gene> speaking of kreative krime kanzure, you know klok knot?
14:33 < kanzure3_> no?
14:34 < fenn> there was some site where they wanted to use various geometries of gypsum for different material properties, i cant remember the name of the site now tho
14:34 < fenn> guy was real into termite mounds
14:34 < gene> that big piece waste of orange painted steel
14:34 < kanzure3_> red
14:34 < gene> it's orange
14:34 < fenn> red-orange
14:34 < kanzure3_> out in front of ETC?
14:34 < gene> yup
14:34 < kanzure3_> red.
14:34 < fenn> http://www.me.utexas.edu/news/2008/0908di_suvero_sculpture.php
14:35 < fenn> looks red-orange to me
14:35 < gene> in the picture
14:35 < fenn> does it fling pumpkins?
14:35 < kanzure3_> it does nothing :(
14:35 < gene> ok well they forgot to put in a placard saying what it is....
14:36 < gene> it stays in static equilibrium
14:36 < fenn> even a turd does more than that
14:36 < kanzure3_> "Top: Mark di Suvero greets a well-wisher.
14:36 < kanzure3_> Bottom: Crowd studies sculpture's base."
14:37 < kanzure3_> not shown: crowd wonders why the fuck they spent a million on this
14:37 < fenn> i ought to go ride my bike or something
14:37 < gene> it also attains thermodynamic equilibrium or trys to at least
14:37 < gene> there is no placard saying what it is
14:39 < gene> "here lies a bunch of steel welded into a quasi-random random configuration performing absolutely no function"
14:39 < fenn> god all of his stuff looks exactly like that
14:40 < fenn> how do these people do it?
14:40 < fenn> so, you going to give it poodle puffs or what?
14:41 < gene> or this marks the fateful date in 1935, when man finally learned he was not alone in the universe, and a martian visitation ship landed on this very spot
14:41 < gene> good idea fenn
14:41 < gene> hmmm...
14:41 < gene> I have some incredibly strong magnets
14:41 < gene> I wonder if I could scale that thing
14:41 < fenn> think you could access the roof of three nearby buildings? :)
14:42 < gene> no
14:42 < fenn> hmm.. potato cannon?
14:42 < gene> maybe, why?
14:42 < fenn> (magnet)---rope---(giant puffball)
14:42 < fenn> aim high
14:43 < fenn> hmm i guess you'd need to deploy the puffball after it attached
14:43 < gene> well one of my friends builds extremely elaborate custom nerf guns, just the other day, we ponder nerf darts with LEDs and magnets
14:43 < gene> there is also a road that goes by that building
14:44 < fenn> man that thing would be so much cooler if it were a trebuchet
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15:05 < gene> it would
15:06 < gene> but I don't think they will let us reconfigure it for such purposes
15:06 < gene> it's surrounded on all sides by buildings and road
15:13 < kanzure3_> http://www.infocastinc.com/downloads_pdf/algae09_brochure.pdf
15:17 < kanzure3_> ilevine@usm.maine.edu  hm..
15:17 < kanzure3_> phytoremediation technology development
15:19 < kanzure3_> http://usm.maine.edu/lac/directory/profiles/levine.html
15:22 < kanzure3_> real name is Ira.. hah. 
15:25 < kanzure3_> http://research.usm.maine.edu/researchers/profiles/display.asp?id=10&dept=SCI
15:25 < kanzure3_> this guy has no published research in harvesting, why is he speaking about harvesting?
15:29 < kanzure3_> http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2009/02/synaesthesia_the_neurological_condition_in.php  genetics of syneaesthesia
15:39 < kanzure3_> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bil-conference
15:47 < kanzure3_> http://www.synbio.org.uk/component/weblinks/68/298.html
15:47 < kanzure3_> erm
15:47 < kanzure3_>  
15:47 < kanzure3_> http://openwetware.org/wiki/Citizen_Science/Open_Spectrophotometer_Project
15:48 < kanzure3_> http://openwetware.org/wiki/Citizen_Science/The_Urinomics_Project   uronomics: open source piss
15:49 < kanzure3_> http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?swf=http%3A//s.ytimg.com/yt/swf/cps-vfl76849.swf&video_id=_FozZluRvrc&rel=1&eurl=http%3A//openwetware.org/wiki/Citizen_Science/Open_Spectrophotometer_Project/Application&iurl=http%3A//i4.ytimg.com/vi/_FozZluRvrc/hqdefault.jpg&sk=xh8zRZCDeFj01_Jr4YnstDkaTL0gVbnFC&use_get_video_info=1&load_modules=1&cr=US  spectrophotometer prototype on youtube
16:08 < gene> kanzure
16:08 < gene> I learned something bad about biodiesel the other day
16:08 < kanzure3_> ?
16:08 < gene> diesel very dirt
16:08 < gene> creates lots of particulates
16:09 < gene> IE stuff that messes up your lungs
16:09 < kanzure3_> did you think it had no output or something?
16:09 < kanzure3_> I mean, when ran through an engine
16:09 < gene> well you can get rid of the particulates though
16:09 < gene> for a prices
16:09 < gene> oh yeah there is such a thing as free energy
16:10 < kanzure3_> only if you mean "without monetary bullshit"
16:10 < gene> some wind farms out in west texas generate so much energy that they give it away for free
16:10 < kanzure3_> right, but that's different
16:11 < kanzure3_> originally, "free energy" meant "violating the laws of physics"
16:11 < kanzure3_> but I've been using it recently to mean "without that thingy that everyone else calls money"
16:12 < gene> I know what free energy originally meant kanzure
16:13 < gene> but really kanzure, think about it
16:13 < kanzure3_> you know what, money is like playing The Game
16:13 < kanzure3_> the one that you just lost..
16:14 < gene> you put a factory there or a big server server farm
16:14 < kanzure3_> put it where?
16:14 < gene> in west texas
16:14 < kanzure3_> you're talking about the windmills?
16:14 < gene> by the windturbines
16:14 < gene> what game?
16:15 < gene> I have a note that says that all memories of that have been erased
16:17 < gene> urinomics,  it's gross but it must be done
16:23 < kanzure3_> "It is possible to keep N distributed copies synchronized by trajectory
16:23 < kanzure3_> forcing which would make them one person, but it's rather pointless, other
16:23 < kanzure3_> than as a hot spare in a high availability setup (My name is Inigo Montoya.
16:23 < kanzure3_> You kill -9 my parent process. Prepare to vi)." - Eugen Leitl
16:24 < gene> what is bil conference?
16:24 < kanzure3_> it's like TED except free and ran by Todd Huffman, destructive neural uploading technologist + fablab organizer
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16:26 < gene> heh
16:27 < gene> almost forgot, you know that supercomputer we have?
16:27 < gene> it did surgery on a dog
16:27 < gene> using a laser
16:28 < kanzure3_> "it did" what did it do exactly?
16:28 < gene> prostatic laser excision of cancerous tissue
16:28 < kanzure3_> yes, but what did *it* do?
16:29 < gene> it looked at the tisse
16:29 < kanzure3_> http://www.tacc.utexas.edu/research/users/features/index.php?m_b_c=laser
16:29 < gene> modeled the tissue
16:29 < kanzure3_> so, it turned a camera on and off
16:29 < kanzure3_> ah
16:29 < kanzure3_> what does that mean though? data entry?
16:29 < gene> then determined how much laser each cell could get
16:30 < gene> read it
16:30 < kanzure3_> "Using precise lasers, state-of-the-art thermal imaging technology, and computational methods that synthesize complex information in a fraction of a second, dynamic, data-driven laser treatments are being pursued as a minimally invasive alternative to the standard treatment of cancer."
16:31 < kanzure3_> so it was just Pennes' 1948 bioheat transfer model plus plugging in data taken from thermal imaging
16:32 < kanzure3_> I guess that's "doing surgery". but it's really just a very specicifc hack
16:32 < kanzure3_> *specific
16:36 < gene> yeah
16:36 < gene> overhype
16:37 < gene> so where's your dna synthesis page
16:38 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/DNA_synthesizer
16:38 < kanzure> that one?
16:38 < gene> ok good
16:39 < gene> http://arxivblog.com/?p=1183
16:39 < gene> you saw this?
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18:08 < kanzure3_> "is there an mvc like rails, cakephp, django, etc for iphone apps?"
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18:17 < gene> speaking of that
18:17 < gene> there's an iphone dev club on campus
18:17 < kanzure> oh?
18:17 < kanzure> how do these students afford iphones again?
18:17 < gene> didn't you see the posters?
18:17 < gene> they're a dev group
18:18 < kanzure> maybe they're just playing with the emulators. hrm.
18:18 < kanzure> no, I did not
18:18 < gene> you don't need a phone to dev
18:18 < kanzure> SDK + emulator, yeah.
18:18 < gene> I got an idea for a product
18:18 < gene> a very very useless one
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18:49 < gene> it's simple too
18:52 < gene> I want make a very very accurate simulation of [REDACTED]
18:53 < gene> you think you can run fluid dynamics on the iphone?
18:54 < kanzure3_> the question is whether or not it would complete the fluid dynamics simulations within any reasonable amount of time
18:54 < kanzure3_> but the answer is yes.
18:54 < gene> don't worry in this application things move rather slowly
18:57 < gene> it is a very useless iPhone app
18:58 < gene> probably even boring
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19:00 < gene> would you like to help kanzure?
19:00 < kanzure3_> you haven't told me what it is that you want to do yet.
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20:41 < kanzure3_> http://unptnt.com/ hm. "unptnt is down. try blog.unptnt.com"
20:42 < kanzure3_> http://unptnt.wufoo.com/forms/unptnt-alpha/ hm..
20:44 < kanzure3_> http://s3.amazonaws.com/unptnt_files_development/uploaded_images/53/unptntdown.png
20:45 < kanzure3_> http://67-207-129-228.slicehost.net/
20:45 < kanzure3_> http://67.207.129.228/
20:47 < kanzure3_> http://72.32.231.8/ <- this is a tumblr page. wtf? 
20:53 < kanzure3_> http://www.pokylinux.org/ "
20:53 < kanzure3_> Poky is an open source platform build tool. It is a complete software development environment for the creation of Linux devices. It enables you to design, develop, build, debug, and test a complete, modern, software stack using Linux, the X Window System and GNOME Mobile based application frameworks for both x86 and ARM based platforms."
20:53 < kanzure3_> http://octopart.com/api/faq
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20:56 < kanzure3_> "
20:56 < kanzure3_> "Dave Rauchwerk, Chief Technology Officer 
20:56 < kanzure3_> Dave is a founder of three45.  His background is bio-mechanical engineering.  He has worked with orthopedic surgeons to develop prototype surgical instrumentation for Minimally Invasive Spine Surgery and large gauge needle placement. He attended the Louisiana State University."
20:57 < kanzure3_> just keeping track of things.
20:57 < kanzure3_> http://elevenarms.com/
20:57 < kanzure3_> http://web.archive.org/web/20070528002507/http://elevenarms.com/
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22:09 < fenn> so james newton is behind massmind.org? that's lame
22:09 < fenn> oh maybe he just uses it
22:10 < fenn> i dont get why anyone would contribute to a wiki that "aggressively defends against copying"
22:24 < kanzure3_> I don't know if James Newton == Jim Newton of TechShop
22:28 < fenn> so todd huffman immediately started organizing bil after returning from afghanistan?
22:29 < kanzure> he's been organizing it for quite a while
22:29 < kanzure> also, he travels like crazy
22:29 < kanzure> defense contracting pays well apparently
22:30 < procto> I'll be able to apply for US citizenship in just a few days
22:30 < procto> and when I get "in"
22:30 < procto> I'll be able to do fun defense contractin', too
22:30 < procto> :)
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22:39  * fenn adds to reading list: http://www.templetons.com/brad/robocars/
22:42 < fenn> this sounds almost like an artificial immune system: "I read an article the other day about the FDA approving an experimental procedure for testing in humans - they pull out some T Cells, deactivate the gene that produces the protein HIV bonds to in the cell wall, breed billions of them, and inject them back into you.  Presto: HIV resistant immune system."
22:44 < kanzure> I need to know how to do this fablab thing..
22:45 < kanzure> it's a rather big system to wrap my head around
22:46 < fenn> ask for help and delegate tasks?
22:46 < fenn> get commitments from people
22:46 < fenn> especially make sure les won't back out
22:46 < kanzure> I've been asking around- alec, smari, sam, talli, tito, hessel, todd, amy
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22:46 < kanzure> I'm pretty sure les isn't going to back out :)
22:47 < kanzure> locally, treadwell seems interested in helping out, I'm sure charlie is interested, and maybe rauchwerk
22:47 < fenn> i'm willing to restructure my life around if necessary
22:48 < kanzure> david nunez used to be interested, but he's in boston (and it turns out he was just speaking with alec yesterday)
22:48 < kanzure> right, hrm, so I need to make sure things are going to be happening
22:48 < fenn> (not that i had much of anything planned anyway)
22:48 < kanzure> are you still jobless?
22:48 < fenn> yeah
22:48 < kanzure> probability of that interview working out in your favor?
22:48 < fenn> 2%
22:48 < kanzure> heh
22:49 < kanzure> well, if we can figure out some way to put you up as "resident gnurd" or something, that would be ideal
22:49 < fenn> i wouldnt mind finding a nearby 20-something house, if such things exist in austin
22:49 < kanzure> 20 means what?
22:50 < fenn> bunch of kids living together sharing costs
22:50 < kanzure> I need to get out of this dorm, remaining parent has been pushing me to dorm up with somebody else to split costs
22:50 < fenn> dorms are stupid
22:50 < kanzure> (it costs an arm and a leg, you see)
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22:52 < fenn> it's like 70 degrees in austin, wtf do i need a house for
22:52 < kanzure> summers.
22:52 < fenn> no, see the plan is to migrate with the seasons :0
22:52 < fenn> possibly between austin/boston
22:52 < kanzure> but that would be smart
22:53 < fenn> yeah but unfortunately the whole rent/job thing is designed to prevent mobility
22:53 < fenn> unless you're wealthy enough to have a "summer home"
22:54 < kanzure> I think you should email les and try to describe your interest in gingery, bootstrapping, fablabs, and see if he thinks things can go down if you move down here and if I also commit and might be able to get one or two others of variable commitment involved as 'core team' (though not in terms of funding)
22:55 < kanzure> actually, maybe rauchwerk has funding. his angel asked me how much a fablab would need, last wednesday, and I said "$50k" and just sent an email explaining that it's much much less now.
22:56 < kanzure> (or, not explaining that, but rather saying how it's already there)
23:04 < gene> lol I should probably change my nick
23:12 < fenn> well, good night. perhaps i'll think of something to write to les
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