--- Day changed Fri Feb 27 2009
00:01  * katmeow1 waves gnites
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02:26 < worldpeace> singularity religion?  lol
02:38 < gene> http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/27/049245
02:38 < gene> openmanufacturing
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02:52 < kanzure> gene: yes. I don't know if I'll post in the comments or not.
02:53 < gene> I just don't believe it
02:53 < gene> I can't believe you can make things like that using just a SMT robot and some injection molding capabilities
02:54 < gene> how do they do the design?
02:54 < gene> we need a molding machine for the fab
02:57 < kanzure> design is EDAerized.
02:57 < kanzure> http://www.gpleda.org/
02:59 < gene> all by program?
02:59 < gene> so I want to make me a camera that sends wireless video to a receiver unit that hooks up via usb to my computer, how do I do that?
03:00 < kanzure> most EDA is limited to digital circuits for flipping bits and bytes, so at the moment you're not going to be able to ask the magic eight ball "how do I do that?" (for your wireless video streaming device)
03:02 < gene> in that case just make me a device that does this 110-> 011--> 101 loop
03:03 < kanzure> what does that mean?
03:03 < gene> where each of the bits is a different out put
03:03 < kanzure> output to what?
03:03 < gene> to a pneumatic cylinder
03:03 < kanzure> how is that different than output down an insulated standard electrical wire?
03:04 < gene> http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/PneuStep/
03:04 < gene> drive that
03:04 < gene> not too much
03:04 < kanzure> sounds like something more fitted for a controller program rather than a digital circuit.
03:05 < kanzure> but anyway,
03:05 < gene> I want a digital fluidic circuit
03:05 < gene> for a pneumatic steampunk robot
03:06 < gene> maybe even one with sonic range sensors
03:06 < gene> like those described in that paper I sent you
03:07 < kanzure> anyway, it should be easy enough to write up some boolean algebra for that sequence of bits that you want to pulse down 3 wires, but I'm not really sure that's the most optimal way to go about doing what you want here.
03:08 < kanzure> in this case, gEDA would be used actually to design, say, that PCI card that is in the diagram on that PneuStep page
03:08 < gene> ok
03:08 < kanzure> also, I'm going to sleep 
03:08 < gene> ok
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03:36 < fenn> hrmph. 10 days of unattended operation and the server goes down
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18:26 < fenn> slept through shopbot camp.. guess i'll have to just stay up til 9 AM tomorrow this time
18:29 < xp_prg> what is shipbot camp?
18:29 < fenn> bunch of old dudes with mustaches standing around talking about plywood
18:32 < xp_prg> fenn I can't get adp1
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19:47 < gene_> so does the fablab have a name yet
19:48 < xp_prg> what is the fablab?
19:49 < gene_> we're starting a fablab
19:49 < fenn> les wants to call it 'myfab.org'
19:50 < xp_prg> but what is that?
19:50 < fenn> xp_prg: go away please
19:51 < gene_> myfab sounds ok
19:51 < fenn> i keep saying "austin fabratory" in my head
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19:56 < fenn> i'd be at the lab right now but i dont have a key.. wah
19:57 < fenn> so i guess i'll read old posts to OM
19:57 < gene> the lab needs a fingerprint scanner then
19:57 < fenn> we're going to do some kind of card, probably RFID
20:00 < fenn> ugh
20:00 < fenn> wtf are they thinking?
20:00 < fenn> Please login in order to download your complimentary copy of the complete book, Winning the Oil Endgame, as a PDF
20:01 < gene> finger print scanner is cooler
20:01 < gene> bonus points if you get in using somebody else's fingerprints
20:01 < fenn> you get to clean the oil and half-cured epoxy off of the scanners then
20:01 < gene> and admit
20:02 < gene> good point
20:02 < gene> retina scanner?
20:02 < fenn> RFID is harder to dupilicate than magnetic card, which was a consideration
20:06 < gene> RFID is more fun to duplicate.
20:08 < gene> I'd like the fablab to do a project showing how insecure fingerprint scanners are
20:08 < fenn> well, you can do that, but i'm not interested
20:35 < fenn> speaking of ID cards; this is interesting: http://guptaoption.com/cheapid/
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21:27 < fenn> "After my recent trip to Afghanistan, I am seriously considering that country as my base of operations."
21:28 < fenn> gonna have to get smari to explain that comment
22:05 < kanzure> hi all
22:05 < kanzure> fenn: I have a treat
22:06 < kanzure> 59 MB zip file version: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics_2009.zip
22:06 < kanzure> directory w/ files and index: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/
22:06 < kanzure> I was spazzing out for a few hours in the lab reading over these
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22:14 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics_2009.zip
22:14 < kanzure> or, see it online: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/
22:15  * katsmeow-afk peeks
22:16 < katsmeow-afk> lota stuff thee
22:16 < katsmeow-afk> there
22:16 < kanzure> Just some stuff I was reading today.
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22:19 < katsmeow1> i can't stay connected, i'll be back tomorrow maybe
22:19 < katsmeow1> thanke for the url kanzure
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22:26 < kanzure> http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/blog/entry/package-management-sudoku-2/
22:26 < kanzure> aptitude + sudoko :-)
22:37 < kanzure> fenn: hm. 3D structures from drinking straws.
22:37 < kanzure> some scissors could come in handy. Make slots and attach them in various ways.
22:38 < kanzure> in fact, straws might be a rapid prototyping method for the automatic linkage design tools.
22:39 < fenn> i dont want 59MB of scanned images
22:39 < kanzure> most aren't.
22:40 < fenn> oh, thought that was gene's fluidics journals
22:40 < kanzure> oh, I have that too.
22:40 < kanzure> fenn: if you give me an ssh key, I'd like to send it to Joe so that you can log into their server sometime and hang out in their custom chatroom.
22:41 < fenn> ok, emailed.
22:41 < kanzure> todo: web crawler for the journal "Lab on a Chip".
22:42 < fenn> joe == joseph jackson?
22:42 < fenn> the third :)
22:42 < kanzure> joe = joe rayhawk
22:43 < fenn> related to steve and anna i presume
22:43 < kanzure> yes.
22:43 < fenn> this is the guy with too many computer monitors in his basement?
22:44 < kanzure> yes.
22:44 < fenn> i'd like more computer programs to have a "visualization mode" so you can see wtf the algorithm is doing
22:44 < fenn> ghost diagrams does this in a pleasing way
22:44 < fenn> re: the sudoku link
22:44 < kanzure> the sodoku link comes from joe, btw.
22:45 < fenn> yeah, it's a clever hack but SFW
22:45 < kanzure> I was complaining about debian and the package system being too tightly integrated
22:45 < kanzure> so I mentioned I wanted one for pokemon
22:45 < kanzure> and so he brought up dan's sudoku-via-apt-dependency-resolution-algorithms.
22:46 < fenn> do pokemonsters have dependencies?
22:46 < kanzure> no. it was probably a terrible request.
22:46 < fenn> i've only played magic: the gathering, which has very simple dependencies most of the time (red mana, blue mana, etc)
22:46 < kanzure> ssh -i /your/key/here/ fenn@neuroblastoma.omgwallhack.org
22:46 < kanzure> then run: chat.rb
22:46 < kanzure> then type: /join omg
22:47 < kanzure> to send messages, type: omg message here
22:48 < kanzure> erm, not your key, sorry
22:48 < kanzure> but you get the idea.
22:48 < fenn> it's asking me for a password
22:48 < kanzure> hrm.
22:49 < kanzure> did you send the correct -i parameter?
22:49 < fenn> oh i was supposed to -i my private key i guess
22:49 < kanzure> yes.
22:49 < fenn> whatever.. i only have one key so i dont need -i
22:50 < kanzure> eh?
22:53 < kanzure> Anyway, I'm going to go back to oggling over the microfluidics/ directory.
22:53 < kanzure> for instance, the wax printer- why didn't I just melt some wax and draw the spiral filter thingy?
22:54 < kanzure> omg there was another good paper (they are all good) on gravity-based sedimentation
22:54 < fenn> so, how do i say something on omg/?
22:54 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/A%20Gravity-Driven%20Microfluidic%20Particle%20Sorting%20Device%20with%20Hydrodynamic%20Separation%20Amplification.pdf
22:54 < kanzure> fenn: just type: "omg hi"
22:56 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/A%20microfluidic%20bioreactor%20for%20increased%20active%20retrovirus%20output.pdf 
22:56 < kanzure> A microfluidic bioreactor for increased active retrovirus output
22:57 < kanzure> and then one on "ice fabrication"-
22:58 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Ice-lithographic%20fabrication%20of%20concave%20microwells%20and%20a%20microfluidic%20network%20-%20ice%20droplets%20for%20structure%20formation%20in%20PDMS.pdf
22:58 < kanzure> Ice-lithographic fabrication of concave microwells and a microfluidic network - ice droplets for structure formation in PDMS
23:07 < fenn> 403 (forbidden)
23:08 < kanzure> whahh
23:09 < kanzure> try now?
23:15 < fenn> well, i dont see what's new about freezing ice droplets on a slide
23:16 < kanzure> nothing.
23:16 < kanzure> just, lots of people have ice laying around
23:16 < kanzure> so if you were to freeze ice droplets, and then pour hot wax from a candle or something, I don't know, something.
23:16 < fenn> it would melt the ice?
23:17 < kanzure> but apparently this is a case where the ice retains the correct shape for just enough time for it to matter
23:17 < fenn> sounds finicky
23:18 < kanzure> if you print water droplets on a slide, and then freeze them, is there any likelihood that the surface area properties of water would retain the shape of the circular droplet, so that you could then pour hot wax over it?
23:18 < fenn> if you get it cold enough, anything will freeze on contact
23:19 < kanzure> not necessarily on contact.
23:19 < kanzure> I was thinking dot matrix printers.
23:19 < kanzure> and then freeze the substrate on which you were printing.
23:19 < fenn> dot matrix printers use tiny needles to press an ink ribbon onto paper.. i dont see the link
23:19 < kanzure> oh, sorry
23:19 < kanzure> um. 
23:20 < fenn> "waterjet" is taken :{
23:20 < kanzure> I was thinking about the resulting dot matrix, an array of dots
23:20 < kanzure> but yes, inkjets, whatever.
23:20 < fenn> i guess i need sunglasses if i'm gonna wear a mustache 8{)
23:21 < kanzure> anyway, I don't know iiif the drops would freeze.
23:21 < kanzure> do small droplets freeze easily?
23:23 < kanzure> http://home.att.net/~rpml/p02b/p02b.htm  hm, nice index
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23:27 < gene> kanzure can you put that thing I sent you somewhere nice and safe on your website?
23:29 < kanzure> oh, yes, sorry, one moment
23:29 < kanzure> um, what were the filenames again?
23:29 < kanzure> okay, added
23:29 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/
23:31 < kanzure> added this one too: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Rapid%20prototyping%20of%20micropatterned%20substrates%20using%20conventional%20laser%20printers.PDF
23:31 < kanzure> rapid prototyping of micropatterned substrates using conventional laser printers
23:33 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Maskless%20photolithography%20using%20UV%20LEDs.pdf
23:34 < kanzure> maskless photolithography using UV LEDs
23:34 < gene> meeting6 and seven
23:34 < gene> HOLY SHIT
23:35 < gene> meeting6.zip
23:35 < gene> meeting7.zip
23:35 < kanzure> hm?
23:35 < gene> I sent them to you
23:36 < kanzure> yeah, I put them in the directory
23:36 < kanzure> have you looked at the paper index yet?
23:37 < gene> the microfluidics index
23:37 < gene> YES
23:37 < kanzure> like?
23:38 < gene> WANT MOAR
23:38 < kanzure> heh
23:39 < gene> the vinyl plotter one could be useful
23:39 < gene> you know what I want to do?
23:39 < gene> I want to build me a fluidic graphing calculator
23:40 < kanzure> you know how everybody is pissing and moaning about gel electrophoresis on the diybio list?
23:40 < kanzure> there's a few electrophoresis alternatives in the index.
23:40 < kanzure> which could be patterned on hot wax, or with laser printers and lamination, or whatever
23:40 < gene> we can't use other electronic devices on tests
23:40 < gene> hot wax?
23:41 < kanzure> look at the paper that has 'wax printer' in its title
23:41 < kanzure> but really, just use hot wax and draw in it.
23:41 < gene> solid ink printer
23:41 < gene> real cheap
23:41 < kanzure> or a pen.
23:42 < gene> off of craigslist
23:42 < gene> now if we could only figure out how to make em print on not a print roller
23:43 < gene> right now I want to design me a fluidic stepper motor
23:43 < gene> that can be 3d printed and is compatible with reprap
23:43 < gene> free 3d prints remember?
23:44 < gene> so I want to generate a gear profile
23:45 < kanzure> what does that mean? (terminology, sorry)
23:45 < gene> let me show you
23:45 < gene> I'm trying to make a wobble motor
23:46 < gene> http://www.chalmers.se/mc2/EN/laboratories/bionano-systems/research/micro-nanosystems-group/wafer-bonding
23:46 < gene> mems pinball machine
23:46 < kanzure> are the UV LEDs cheap?
23:46 < kanzure> erm, -the
23:47 < fenn> i dont see why the obsession with stepper motors..
23:48 < fenn> what you really want is controlled movement
23:48 < kanzure> isoborynl acrylate, tetraethylenegylcol dimethacrylate, 2,2'-dimethoxy-2-phenyl-acetophenone. <-- blah, this sucks.
23:48 < fenn> much easier to simply make a fluidic motor and control it somehow
23:48 < kanzure> that list is from the materials section of http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Ultra%20rapid%20prototyping%20of%20microfluidic%20systems%20using%20liquid%20phase%20photopolymerization%20(5%20min).pdf
23:49 < kanzure> basically: microscope slides + mask + UV LEDs + that "prepolymer liquid" concoction listed above.
23:49 < gene> fluidics has lot's of "potential" for reprap
23:51 < fenn> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Fluidics%20quaterly%207/22.jpg has the right idea
23:52 < gene> yup
23:52 < gene> that's what got me interested
23:53 < fenn> i'd start with an electronic encoder though, just because building a fluidic computer is a huge task
23:53 < fenn> and unrelated to the problem of controlling a fluidic positioning system
23:53 < gene> electronic encoder?
23:54 < fenn> optical encoder, like in a ball mouse
23:54 < gene> electronic encoder? Fenn, you don't need an electronic encoder, when you have a fluidic one
23:54 < gene> disk with holes in it
23:55 < gene> http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/PneuStep/
23:55 < kanzure> hrm, I wonder if there's mask lithography method with wax. 
23:55 < gene> I want to generate a gear profile for that
23:56 < fenn> gene: if you have a fluidic encoder you have to monitor those fluidic signals and get them into a computer somehow
23:56 < gene> who says you need a computer?
23:56 < gene> when you can have paper tape
23:57 < fenn> oh ffs take it one step at a time
23:57 < gene> I can't figure out how they get it to move to a certain position
23:58 < gene> how do they input coordinates
23:59 < fenn> see the diagram, counter (error register) -> logic to select actuator mode
23:59 < fenn> there's an arrow going into the counter, presumably that's where you put the desired coordinates
23:59 < gene> what's a counter?