--- Day changed Sat Mar 28 2009
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00:34 < kanzure> streamlines didn't show anything O.o
00:59 < gene> ???
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03:35 < kanzure> "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it".
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03:59 < kanzure> hah
03:59 < kanzure> http://www.csc.fi/english/pages/elmer/examples/marangoni.tar.gz
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06:12 < UtopiahGHML> someone came here few days ago discussing quantative vs qualitative method, http://www.methodspace.com/ could help debatting it
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08:00 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2009-03-28_tcross_microfluidics.png
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08:21 < kanzure> so let me get this straight, she wants me to write an essay to get into the home?
08:21 < kanzure> why would I do that?
08:37 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/2009-03-28_t-junction_microfluidics.avi
08:38 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2009-03-28_tcross_microfluidics.png
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09:11 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPY84NelFO4 microfluidics T-junction video (now hosted on youtube)
09:16 < kanzure> hey, what's this about? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-8Cm6Ycr8w
09:16 < kanzure> "c-shaped sieve" any thoughts on how that works?
09:17 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcxrqf6ounU another type
09:17 < kanzure> their implementation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxcjhGwg97M&feature=PlayList&p=23E800AA6CD56F52&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3
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09:20 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/Building%20a%20better%20cell%20trap%20-%20Applying%20Lagrangian%20modeling%20to%20the%20design%20of%20microfluidic%20devices%20for%20cell%20biology.pdf
09:20 < kanzure> ^ that's the paper per those youtube videos
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11:36 < kanzure> ack, somehow my 3D model became 2D. that's not good.
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12:19 < kanzure> blah. the model has intersecting triangles.
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13:57 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2009-03-28.png
13:57 < kanzure> gene: can you possibly regenerate the STL file, and this time not include any holes?
13:57 < kanzure> I think it's getting messed up. in that image, you see how the red lines don't really go all the way to the outlets. yeah, that's bad.
13:58 < kanzure> and at the center of the spiral, there's no floor. this is after I ran it through 'netgen'- in an attempt to fix what's wrong with the stl file
13:58 < kanzure> there's something like an invalid triangle being generated or something
13:58 < kanzure> so if you can give me the original CAD file in some format like IGES or STEP, I can then generate the proper STL stuff for CFD analysis voodoo magic.
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14:17 < kanzure>  or in the mean time, until he gets around to showing up, does anyone know of anything that takes .sldprt files and converts it into anything useful?
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14:30 < gene> I'm here
14:37 < kanzure> gene: can you get me a model of our spiral filter without the holes that we don't want to simulate?
14:38 < kanzure> and in a few different formats- like STL, STEP, IGES, that would be great.
14:38 < gene> trying too
14:38 < kanzure> thank you
14:38 < gene> is that lip thing ok?
14:39 < kanzure> what lip thing?
14:39 < kanzure> is that at the center of the model?
14:41 < gene> no
14:41 < kanzure> then I guess it's ok
14:41 < gene> exporting to .stl in
14:42 < gene> 5
14:42 < gene> 4
14:42 < gene> 3
14:42 < gene> 2
14:42 < gene> 1
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14:51 < kanzure> gene: have you sent them yet?
14:52 < gene> wait a minute, I have over 100 tabs open in firefox I'm scrolling over to my gmail tab
18:11 < kanzure> try vertical tabs.
18:11 < gene> jk
18:12 < kanzure> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5890
18:14 < gene> I NEEED MOARPOWER
18:27 < bkero> kanzure: tabkit not good enough for you? :P
18:30 < kanzure> technically I don't even use firefox any more
18:30 < kanzure> can anyone figure out how I can trick myself into writing this essay for the home ?
18:30 < kanzure> they have an application form apparently
18:30 < kanzure> so if I fail the essay, do I get de-moted to something lesser than The Home?
18:30 < kanzure> I don't understand
18:31  * bkero doesn't understand.
18:33 < kanzure> bkero: my mom is filling out an application form to put me into a home, so she sent me an email asking me to write an essay that they want "to help to get to know me"
18:33 < kanzure> O.o
18:33 < bkero> Oh jesus, I had to do those things
18:33 < bkero> If they ask you 'pirates or ninjas', FLEE as fast as your legs can carry you.
18:34 < bkero> Craigslist can find you a spot in a house in the worst case :)
18:34 < gene> huh?
18:34 < gene> you gonna be here next semester
18:35 < kanzure> I don't know
18:36 < fenn> from the naruto costumes i'd guess ninjas
18:36  * bkero gags
18:38 < gene> pirates or ninjas did I mis something
18:38 < kanzure> gene: if I get a job over the summer, the chances increase that I'll be here next semester
18:39 < gene> you could also take advantage of the internet
18:39 < kanzure> wtf is a spirain, btw?
18:39 < gene> aspirain
18:40 < kanzure> in the file name that you sent me
18:40 < kanzure> oh crap, bad font. sorry.
18:40 < gene> huh
18:40 < kanzure> I misinterpreted it because it looked like 'spirain' instead of 'spiral'
18:41 < gene> no that wasn't in the file
18:42 < kanzure> elmergui crashes while meshing your stl file
18:42 < kanzure> "WARNING: intersecting elements 2433 and 268"
18:43 < gene> that's it we're using comsol
18:43 < kanzure> or you just give me the iges and step file like I asked?
18:43 < kanzure> if you hadn't used fucking proprietary software in the first place, we wouldn't have this problem
18:43 < kanzure> let's not repeat the same mistake.
18:44 < kanzure> btw, there's still a problem with the stl file
18:45 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2009-03-28_2_problem2.png
18:45 < kanzure> do you know what that is, and can you fix that?
18:45 < kanzure> (that's at the center)
18:45 < gene> well too bad proprietary software is easy to use
18:46 < kanzure> but that doesn't account for upstream effects.
18:47 < fenn> downstream
18:47  * kanzure takes out his compass
18:47 < fenn> you guys get all confused because your stream is spiral-shaped
18:47 < kanzure> isn't that what the cfd is supposed to help with
18:48 < kanzure> either of you see the youtube video?
18:48 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPY84NelFO4
18:49 < gene> did you do that?
18:49 < kanzure> yes
18:50 < gene> hold on
18:56 < gene> oops
19:06 < kanzure> error: TRIG 1 has 2 neighbors (as does TRIG 40, TRIG 1359, 1362, 3224)
19:06 < kanzure> someone's STL exporter utility must suck
19:19 < kanzure> gene: do you know how to fix it?
19:19 < kanzure> specifically it has something to do with the triangles somewher near the bottom just at the origin (in the center) where it starts to curl, on the inner-edge.
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19:22 < gene> well there's a build error there
19:23 < kanzure> oh? what error in particular?
19:23 < gene> I forgot
19:23 < kanzure> but you knew about it?
19:23 < gene> let me rebuild it
19:23 < kanzure> please :(
19:24 < gene> without the circle in the middle
19:24 < kanzure> what will be there instead?
19:24 < gene> nothing
19:24 < kanzure> a wall?
19:24 < gene> as there is no way I can get rid of the build error
19:27 < gene> oh wait it could be the boundary between the bifurcation and the spiral
19:27 < bkero> what http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/28/2134218
19:27 < kanzure> at the end? I don't know if that's what's causing the problems.
19:30 < kanzure> refresh for some more information on what I at least suspect it might be
19:30 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2009-03-28_2_problem2.png
19:30 < kanzure> although that might not be it- since there are some weird things you can do in netgen and zooming in starts to make it look like it's doing some impossible manifold shape
19:32 < gene> what file type do you want it in?
19:32 < kanzure> stl, iges and step please
19:32 < gene> bkero that shit is scary
19:35 < fenn> next up: UN decrees criticism of UN policies as a human rights violation
19:36 < gene> how are we gonna to fend off the UN spacefleet?
19:36 < fenn> pff
19:36 < fenn> with your plasma cannons
19:37 < gene> oh yeah that's right
19:38 < gene> which step type?
19:39 < gene> I've got several, alibre
19:39 < gene> Acis 
19:39 < gene> ACIS RX
19:39 < fenn> step should all be the same
19:39 < fenn> ap203 or 214
19:39 < gene> alibre thene
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19:41 < fenn> um, 209 not 214
19:42 < kanzure> just as long as you get me two versions of the same thing- one that is saved to STL, and another straight from the CAD model to something that isn't STL but is fairly common
19:43 < gene> I sent you three
19:44 < gene> saved as .stp alibre because it said alibre
19:44 < gene> and alibre is bound to export it best
19:46 < gene> speaking of plasma guns
19:48 < gene> supposedly these plasmoid things can EMP things like missiles
19:48 < fenn> yup
19:48 < gene> I wonder how though, as aren't missiles fairly EMP proof?
19:48 < gene> something about braking radiation?
19:48 < fenn> induced current
19:48 < gene> oh
19:48 < fenn> missiles would need a lot of shielding (mass) to re-route the induced current
19:49 < gene> then I need to make me a plasmoid gun
19:49 < fenn> unless you're talking about brehmsstrahlung
19:49 < gene> papers I read talked about brehmsstrahlung
19:50 < fenn> that's just x-rays, not likely to stop a missile (except for when the plasmoid collides with something)
19:51 < fenn> oh, actually, the plasmoid is neutrally charged isn't it?
19:51 < gene> wait
19:51 < fenn> so it wouldn't induce a current
19:51 < fenn> if it collides with something and the magnetic fields collapse, that energy has to go somewhere
19:53 < gene> yeah
19:53 < gene> they say the magnetic field is 0.5 tesla
19:53 < fenn> that's just the flux density
19:54 < fenn> it's a tiny speck so that's not surprising
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19:57 < gene> Figure 12 is a color copy of a painting rendered by an artist from his own
19:57 < gene> memory which clearly shows a Ball Lightning at the moment of disruption. It s
19:57 < gene> force balance is achieved by the net inward force of the toroidal field with
19:57 < gene> plasma hows two tangential sheets or beams pouring out in opposing directions
19:57 < gene> from a hows two tangential sheets or beams pouring out in opposing directions
19:57 < gene> from a longitudinal rent in the Mantle. The longer beam corresponds
19:57 < gene> to dumping of the Mantle energetic electron sheet that is focused at the vacuum
19:57 < gene> field-Mantle boundary. Here the electron currents confine most of the
19:57 < gene> magnetic energy internally within the Ball Lightning and maintain a net longitudinal
19:57 < gene> orbit as they do so. The focusing at the boundary comes from a balance
19:57 < gene> between inward electric field pressure by a sharp boundary sheath that
19:57 < gene> forms at the vacuum field-plasma interface, and the outward pressure of the
19:57 < gene> magnetic field. Of course, overall inward f ring acting upon the vacuum flux as
19:57 < gene> it links through the "hole" of the ring. In addition the external pressure of the
19:57 < gene> atmosphere results in fluid pressure through the plasma layer to the field via
19:57 < gene> the current/fields interaction. The painting also depicts the much shorter but
19:57 < gene> oppositely directed sheet of ions (probably mixed species) which are much
19:57 < gene> heavier with opposite charge and circulation direction to electrons. Such an
19:57 < gene> observation (as well as other "beamed Ball Lightning") can provide some important
19:57 < gene> es timates on the energetics of the currents in Ball Lightning. This can be done
19:57 < gene> heh interesting 'evidence'
20:17 < gene> kanzure you there?
20:17 < kanzure> yes
20:17 < kanzure> just got done eating, am testing out the stl file in elmergui once I alt+tab away
20:17 < gene> come over to #reprap
20:17 < gene> discussing automatic design
20:34 < kanzure> gene: hey, check out the model near the beginning of the bifurcation (at the pointy tip)
20:34 < kanzure> on the inner wall of the channel at that point, it looks like there's a flap there
20:36 < kanzure>  ERROR: Give up because of too many trials. Meshing aborted!
20:36 < kanzure>  Meshing done, time = 305.44 sec
20:36 < kanzure> hah
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20:42 < gene> I knew it
20:58 < kanzure> gene: still borkored I think.
21:00 < kanzure> is there a spray-paint-a-bucket-of-pooints mode in blender?
21:09 < gene> don't know I don't use blender
21:15 < kanzure> gene, is there a way you can get rid of the curl next to the input? I think that's causing problems when it's in STL
21:15 < gene> it's a spiral, I can't remove the curl
21:16 < kanzure> what the hell? I thought you were using a CAD program?
21:22 < gene> hold on
21:22 < gene> i'll get rid of bifurcation
21:23 < kanzure> I don't think that's the problem, but if you want, how about you get rid of the bifurcation, then make an STL file; then also try adding filler in between the very curved edge and the input wall
21:23 < kanzure> and make an STL of that too. we can try both.
21:35 < kanzure> oh
21:36 < kanzure> the problem might be that the wall at that point is going past the concavity due to the curl
21:37 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2009-03-28_2_problem2.png (bottom image)
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22:09 < gene> i don't know what you want
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23:17 < kanzure> do'h, a 2d image works.
23:24 < gene> it does?
23:24 < gene> for what
23:24 < gene> must know
23:24 < kanzure> for the simulations.
23:25 < gene> SWEET
23:25 < gene> that's all we need to do then
23:25 < kanzure> yeah .. but the issue is that the image has to be very detailed otherwise it becomes pixelated and that's not really good
23:25 < kanzure> but other than that, yeah.
23:25 < kanzure> also, for the record, blender has a plugin to generate spirals and then export into stl
23:27 < kanzure> I was thinking of just generating the image with gnuplot and use a ridiculously large number of points to get a fine detailed image
23:36 < gene> wait a second
23:36 < gene> did you just say image?
23:37 < gene> as in .jpg .bmp and such?
23:38 < gene> can I simulate a flow around mario?
23:45 < kanzure> yes
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23:51 < gene> cool
23:52 < gene> http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs16/f/2007/194/b/a/Super_Mario_Black_and_White_by_Henrique_Meuren.jpg
23:52 < gene> do it
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