--- Day changed Wed Apr 08 2009 00:25 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@146-115-127-170.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 00:29 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:04 -!- titojankowski [i=4c693f9c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-eec21f4379ef1094] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 02:39 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-96-128.public.utexas.edu] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"] 07:24 -!- fenn_ [n=fenn@cpe-72-177-52-180.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:41 -!- fenn [n=fenn@cpe-72-177-52-180.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:30 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:38 < cis-action> hey 08:55 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:59 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:59 -!- any63315265 [n=someone@75-120-34-77.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:03 -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-120-47-63.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:33 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:03 < ybit> you guys can think me later: http://co.de is available 10:04 < ybit> since the .de domain is available to everyone 10:12 < ybit> well, i thought it was a good domain. if there was money in my checkings i'd purchase i 10:12 * ybit needs a homepage address 10:16 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:49 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:51 < faceface> nice domain 10:51 < faceface> there is some humor in the .co.ck addresses 11:12 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:22 < kanzure> "I saw another minimalist paper. A lab has made microfluidics using standard electronics PCB methods, etched with a pattern from a laser-printer-transparency + hot iron transfer to PCB for the screen, and standard PCB etchant to remove the exposed copper. After etching the PCB, and removing the toner from the copper traces, the copper traces act like the negative for a mold. Place etched PCB in mold container, pour the PDMS on top, set, remove from mold container. Then place glass cover on the PDMS." 11:28 < kanzure> http://www.denic.de/en/denic/mitgliedschaft/mitgliederliste/country.jsp 11:28 < kanzure> this is harder than I'd thought it be 11:29 < kanzure> ybit: where were you going to go purchase it? 11:29 < ybit> i have no money, so i can't 11:29 < ybit> would love to 11:29 < ybit> paycheck comes in about 2 weeks from now 11:30 < ybit> and i'm sure it will be gone by then 11:31 < kanzure> point me to a link and I'll grab it 11:33 < ybit> www.domain.com is where it said it's available 11:33 -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn 11:33 < ybit> i usually go through gandi.net but they haven't updated yet, .de just became available 11:33 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has quit [] 11:33 < ybit> funny thing is, it was gandi's newsletter that informed me of .de 11:34 < kanzure> $40/yr 11:34 < kanzure> argh 11:34 < ybit> yeah 11:34 < kanzure> is it worth it? 11:34 < ybit> no 11:34 < kanzure> are you sure? 11:34 < ybit> yeah 11:35 < ybit> to purchase a domain, it should only be ~$20 11:35 < ybit> i think domain.com is tagging on other services 11:36 < ybit> i stand corrected o.O 11:38 < kanzure> cline got back to me with an idea to use PCBs as molds for PDMS 11:39 < kanzure> (the hot-iron-press PCB stuff) 11:40 * kanzure lurches around for food 11:44 < ybit> aha, domainmonger. $17/yr 11:44 < ybit> not bad 11:46 < ybit> anyway, if you are thinking of purchasing it to transfer to me, that's very nice of you, but don't bother. 11:47 < ybit> it's not the price that bothers me, it's the extremely kind act, not sure why... but moving on.. 11:48 < ybit> i'm liking mechanize 11:57 < fenn> $40/yr is not too bad for a two letter domain that also happens to be a geek word 11:59 < fenn> at worst you could tell someone cool about it, like chaos computer club 12:01 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:11 < kanzure> ybit: WWW::Mechanize? 12:11 < kanzure> you should also check out the html-unit thingy that I told Mac about a few days ago 12:22 < ybit> kanzure: http://htmlunit.sourceforge.net/ ? 12:22 < kanzure> yes 12:22 < ybit> grep shows nothing in irc and email. k 12:22 < kanzure> wtf. /me wines 12:22 < kanzure> *whines 12:23 < ybit> hehe 12:28 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has quit [] 12:28 < ybit> go-dove.com has had some interesting auctions lately 12:33 < ybit> kanzure: what mailing, diybio or open manufacturing? i'm curious now why it isn't displaying 12:33 < kanzure> why what isn't displaying? 12:34 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:35 < ybit> html-unit 12:35 < ybit> in my grep searches 12:35 < kanzure> I mentioned it in here a few days ago 12:35 < kanzure> is it possible that you were offline? 12:35 < ybit> oh 12:35 < ybit> huh 12:36 < ybit> oh well, i must have been temporarily offline 12:43 < kanzure> making various small changes to http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/DIYbio_FAQ 12:50 < ybit> new bio vid on ted: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/bonnie_bassler_on_how_bacteria_communicate.html 13:18 < faceface> ybit: any good? 13:18 < faceface> I find ted a bit too 'pop' often 13:20 < faceface> also can I make it play faster? 13:21 < fenn> download and use mplayer 13:21 < fenn> [] controls playback speed (there is some audio filter for pitch shifting too) 13:21 < faceface> right 13:22 < faceface> still, she's talking fast enough imho 13:22 < faceface> some people are too slow 13:23 < UtopiahGHML> we'll probably soon need a flash player to replace with Greasemonkey or sth else players from websites when they'll dedice to monetize them with ads. Then you'll be able to control speed directly there, hopefuly. 13:23 < UtopiahGHML> \decide 13:26 < faceface> so what lady? 13:26 < faceface> I mean, swarms are cool, but this is like ... who cares? 13:27 < fenn> it's the biological internet supercomputer, d00d 13:27 < faceface> I am just crazy for swarms 13:28 < faceface> I can't get enough of looking at those shoals of fish that behave as a super organism 13:28 < faceface> I wish we could measure its IQ 13:28 < fenn> i wish we had a reliable definition of intelligence with which to make a test for it 13:29 < faceface> I wish we could abstract the physics of 'computation' from dyamical systems 13:29 < fenn> um, we can 13:29 < faceface> how? 13:29 < fenn> study how they work 13:30 < faceface> oh 13:30 < faceface> by 'physics' I kind of meant somethign else I guess 13:30 < fenn> "magic"? 13:30 < faceface> yes 13:30 < faceface> no wait 13:30 < faceface> ;-) 13:31 < faceface> its like we have a physics of mass action, and a physics of single bodies. 13:31 < faceface> for multibody systems we can simulate 13:31 < faceface> but there is a physics of the ensemble behaviour of dynamical systems 13:31 < fenn> now you lost me 13:31 < faceface> measures like ... what is it... ermm... statistical complexity iirc 13:32 < faceface> fenn: lots of interactions = physics of 'statistical ensembles' i.e. pressure 13:32 * fenn turns up the threshold on the buzzword alarm 13:32 < faceface> few interactions, physics of simple things like pendulem 13:32 < faceface> one moment 13:33 < fenn> so, er, basically they're saying they can't predict the outcome because they don't have all the data 13:33 < faceface> no, thats 'chaos' 13:33 < faceface> this is something else 13:33 < faceface> the interface between order and chaos = physical systems that compute 13:34 < fenn> i guess 13:34 < fenn> this definition of computation certainly has gotten watered down lately 13:34 < faceface> can't find the paper http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/notebooks/complexity-measures.html 13:34 < faceface> in this system, computation = memory + dynamisc 13:34 < faceface> memory + dynamics 13:35 < faceface> i.e. you need change, but you need memory - such systems have computational capacity 13:35 < faceface> i.e. physics trys to make things REALLY abstract 13:35 < faceface> computational mechanics 13:36 < faceface> The statistical complexity of computational mechanics partakes of both natures, being the entropy of an abstract automaton; it can actually be calculated. (I presently have a couple of papers incubating where we do calculate the statistical complexity of various real-world processes.) 13:36 < fenn> not just dynamics, it has to be deterministic; you can't make a computer out of a pile of garbage 13:36 < faceface> so what they do is try to 'model' a data stream, then they measure the complexity of the model. 13:37 < faceface> fenn: that system has no memory ;-) 13:37 < faceface> the 'deterministic' aspect of the sytem comes from teh memory requirement. 13:37 < faceface> i.e. if I put this tin can here now, I can come back to it later, and at that point it will still have 'meaning' for my internal state... in abstract terms 13:37 < faceface> a pile of garbage is meaningless 13:38 < fenn> a lot of examples of computation in nature turn out to be stochastic, often only failing once in a zillion operations 13:38 < faceface> how do you mean? 13:38 < fenn> well, like those conch seashells with triangles on them 13:38 < fenn> it does follow some algorithm but it screws up every once in a while 13:38 < fenn> or crystal formation or whatever 13:39 < faceface> here is the paper http://www.santafe.edu/~cmg/compmech/pubs/ISCTitlePage.htm 13:39 < faceface> Crutchfield has some interesting things to say 13:39 < faceface> fenn: thats interesting 13:40 < faceface> I'll have to go back to that ted talk - seems some interesting applications... 13:40 < fenn> that abstract means nothing to me 13:45 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:46 < faceface> A technique is presented that directly reconstructs minimal equations of motion from the recursive structure of measurement sequences. ? 13:46 < faceface> remember that paper where they reconstruct the equations of motion from the double pendulim? 13:47 < faceface> the crux of it is this, a data stream of 1's is easy to model - one state, one state transition, one emission. 13:47 < faceface> a random stream is similarly simple, one state, two state transitions, two emissions. 13:48 < faceface> 'complexity' comes from complex models such as those that may produce complex data streams 13:48 < faceface> here complexity is defined as 'required modelling effort' 13:48 < faceface> anyway, its a bit hard to follow. 13:48 < faceface> the science paper is really cool 13:55 < ybit> faceface: i agree, but in my words, most ted talks are lame 13:56 < faceface> funny, that is the first thing I wanted to type, then I changed it to pop 13:56 < faceface> l8r dudes 13:56 < faceface> g2g 14:03 -!- cis-action_ [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:11 < fenn> heh 14:11 < fenn> I am a journalism major at NYU writing an article about DIYbio. I spoke to Bryan just yesterday about the DIYbio 14:11 < fenn> group in Austin and he mentioned that you are working on getting a lab space organized for the DIYbio group. I was 14:11 < fenn> hoping to get to talk to you a little bit about how you got involved and what the group is doing now. I would 14:11 < fenn> really appreciate a bit of your time before my paper is due tomorrow! 14:30 -!- any63315265 is now known as katsmeow 14:33 < katsmeow> umm, asking for a reply in under 6 hrs on a paper he knew about for maybe 4 months is almost bad manners 14:37 -!- cis-action_ [n=cis-acti@209.113.205.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:43 < fenn> diybio hasn't been around for 4 months 14:45 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:46 < fenn> hmm early 2008? well it hadnt taken off really until 2009 or so 14:50 < fenn> i think i'm going to have two virtual desktops, one 640x480 that is 'locked' to the display, the other a virtual desktop some zillion pixels or so, which i can pan over by using head mounted gyros 14:50 < fenn> that way its like i'm looking through a small 'window' at the virtual world 14:52 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk 14:53 < fenn> crap. since when were mems gyros $40 14:57 < fenn> well maybe i can get away with just accelerometers and a hall effect sensor 15:21 -!- anthonyl [n=duzt@dsl093-216-054.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36 < fenn> man i suck at phone interviews 16:38 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:39 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:26 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:43 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:51 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:01 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:15 < kanzure> fenn: oh, you talked to the girl? 18:17 < kanzure> also, I complained to somebody today about how people talk about mathematics by pointing aimlessly at a board (instead of, you know, using formal language and so on) 18:17 < kanzure> and that person might be able to fix that O.o at least for my university classes 18:18 < fenn> hah 18:18 < fenn> good luck with that 18:18 * fenn off to the hardware store to get vee belts 18:18 < kanzure> "and then you take this and multiply it by that and then you do tha" 18:18 < kanzure> blah. /me stabs the mathematician 18:20 * fenn wonders if there's anything on his todo list that needs attention 18:20 < fenn> should i spend all my money on a myvu or wait til i get more? 18:22 < fenn> hm 37 minutes until they close.. bye 18:30 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/lysis.html 18:30 < kanzure> lysis bibliography 18:30 < kanzure> also added three papers: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/?C=M;O=D 18:49 < katsmeow-afk> this book is free till April ~20 : http://www.pyrrhichouse.co.uk/docs/faculty.pdf ( Researcher identifies just 8 patterns as the cause of all humor ) 18:50 < kanzure> is that supposed to be funny? 18:51 < katsmeow-afk> well, it's not in the listed patterns 19:01 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44 -!- katsmeow-afk is now known as katsmeow 20:22 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@207-172-70-76.c3-0.sbo-ubr2.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:38 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@207-172-70-76.c3-0.sbo-ubr2.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 22:03 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:17 < kanzure> http://voiced.device.mst.edu/groups/VisualizeIT/weblog/0b42a/Fifty_Most_Different.html 23:19 < fenn> you should make a graph with the distance as edge length, then do a force directed layout with the part picture as the node 23:19 < kanzure> distance between what? 23:20 < kanzure> graphsynth (and maybe graphviz?) implements force directed layout. 23:21 < kanzure> the distances are "between the different assembly designs" 23:21 < fenn> graphviz can do it 23:21 < kanzure> everything I say about that should be scarequoted because it's technically not very technical 23:21 < kanzure> the assemblies aren't really assemblies since it's a 138x138 grid of "blah[i][j]=k means there are k connections between components of name i and components of name j" 23:21 < fenn> well you must be measuring something 23:21 < fenn> and '50 most different designs' doesn't really show a lot 23:22 < fenn> not like anyone's going to look at your zip file 23:22 < kanzure> heh 23:23 < kanzure> so all that the other universities have to do is implement my four line R script to do clustering on the data 23:23 < kanzure> campbell doesn't think they're up to it 23:23 < kanzure> i.e., "slackers" 23:23 < kanzure> which makes me wonder- considering how slacky this work is in the first place 23:27 < kanzure> googling for "reagentless PCR" (I know, I know) brings up "Reagentless mechanical cell lysis by nanoscale barbs in microchannels for sample preparation" from the berkeley biopets. heh 23:28 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Diode%20laser%20generated%20ultrasound%20for%20human%20blood%20cell%20lysis.pdf 23:28 < kanzure> LED-induced ultrasonic cavitation bubbles (think: inkjets);H 23:30 < fenn> where do you get nucleotides from in reagentless pcr? 23:31 < fenn> and/or how do you get the primers into the cells 23:32 < fenn> that must be a high powered laser 23:34 < kanzure> 808 nm 23:34 < kanzure> I think they said something about taking it from a CD burner 23:37 < fenn> hmm fennetic.net seems to be down 23:39 < fenn> i added the belt drive today http://imagebin.org/44861 23:39 < kanzure> lathe? 23:39 < fenn> you haven't seen it? 23:39 < kanzure> I thought you had made a lathe, but it was already working? 23:40 < katsmeow> i could have sworn you already had a lathe, fenn 23:40 < fenn> i left the belt drive in bloomington 23:41 < fenn> 500mW laser is not unreasonable 23:42 < kanzure> are you back to the laser-driven micropump paper? 23:42 < kanzure> (that last link I pasted) 23:42 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit [] 23:43 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk 23:43 < fenn> you should get the first reference in that paper (whole blood pumped by laser) 23:43 < fenn> seems more useful than lysis 23:44 < kanzure> I have it, one moment 23:44 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Whole%20Blood%20Pumped%20by%20Laser%20Driven%20Micropump.pdf 23:46 < fenn> thx1138 23:47 < kanzure> good movie. what about it? 23:47 < fenn> nvm 23:48 * fenn grumbles something about using a cd-rw drive directly 23:49 < fenn> what's the time constant on those marangoni flows? 23:49 < kanzure> "will experience a rise in temperature of around 100 million celsius/sec for about 2-3 microseconds" <--- waah? 23:49 < fenn> could you zap them once every time the cd spins around? 23:50 < kanzure> marangoni flow time constant? I don't remember, but it was in the microsecond range of resolution IIRC 23:50 < fenn> like if you had two cd's stuck together with fluid between 23:50 < kanzure> though not this impressive. there was resistor heating that had to take place 23:50 < kanzure> hrm. 23:50 < kanzure> I was thinking of using the mirror + hard drive arm setup with a laser 23:51 < kanzure> so that you had xy movement 23:51 < fenn> sure, something like that 23:51 < kanzure> but sandwiching two CDs together sounds like a quicker method 23:51 < kanzure> (using a CD drive) 23:51 < kanzure> you don't really get much motion options do you though 23:51 < kanzure> hm.. 23:52 < fenn> so i guess i made up the whole linear LED array in my mind.. it doesn't actually exist 23:52 < kanzure> do CDs spin with continuous motion? 23:52 < fenn> yes 23:52 < kanzure> fantastic 23:52 < kanzure> I've never been able to tell, since I don't have submicrosecond vision resolution 23:52 < fenn> the positioner doesn't even have enough resoution to know where it is 23:52 < fenn> it relies on the grooves in the cd to stay on track 23:52 < fenn> with those coils on the lens 23:54 < kanzure> they were using an objective lense in the laser micropump paper 23:54 < kanzure> to focus the laser more specifically to 700 micrometers^2 23:54 < fenn> oo that paper's cool.. there's no valves or anything