--- Day changed Tue Apr 14 2009 00:02 < wrldpc> define 00:02 < wrldpc> .. 00:02 < wrldpc> nvm 00:06 -!- katsmeow-afk is now known as katsmeow 01:16 -!- any58862819 [n=someone@75-120-32-107.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:22 -!- any71694959 [n=someone@99.194.249.234] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:22 -!- katsmeow [n=someone@99.194.251.75] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:23 -!- any71694959 is now known as katsmeow 01:32 -!- Netsplit niven.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: tarbo2 01:32 -!- Netsplit over, joins: tarbo2 01:33 -!- Netsplit niven.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: splicer_ 01:33 -!- Netsplit niven.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: oublei 01:35 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk 01:37 -!- Netsplit niven.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: tarbo2 01:39 -!- oublei [n=oublei@65.111.186.55] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:40 -!- any58862819 [n=someone@75-120-32-107.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:48 -!- elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:53 -!- splicer_ [n=patrik@h8n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:05 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C52A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:09 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C52A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:09 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C52A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:10 < kanzure> paper has been archived 08:58 < kanzure> paper-sharing mailing list: http://postbiota.org/mailman/listinfo/papers 09:12 -!- kanzure- [n=bryan@66.112.232.148] has quit ["leaving"] 09:44 -!- tarbo2 [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:05 -!- Netsplit niven.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: tarbo2 10:10 -!- tarbo2 [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:10 -!- tarbo2 [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 10:15 -!- tarbo2 [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:51 < kanzure> is frankhardy == wildcatcad? 11:09 -!- jm|space [n=jm@p57B9CA8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:11 < kanzure> fenn: where is the lifecycle-assessment machine comic strip image? 11:12 < kanzure> ok, found it 11:25 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C52A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:29 < faceface> http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/322/5904/1065 11:29 < faceface> I'm thinking about modelling embryogenisis for the purposes of 'growing form x' from a pre-defined genetic circuit 11:29 < faceface> Reconstruction of Zebrafish Early Embryonic Development by Scanned Light Sheet Microscopy 11:39 < faceface> what a crappy article! plz ignore me 12:10 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:21 -!- truename [n=truename@c-76-125-146-206.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:41 < kanzure> Hello truename. 12:41 < truename> hey.. I've been perusing the open manufacturing list and I saw a link to here 12:42 < kanzure> Ah, awesome. 12:42 < kanzure> You're in the right place. 12:42 < truename> is this channel about biohacking, open manufacturing type stuff or just everything? 12:42 < truename> ah k 12:42 < kanzure> both 12:42 < kanzure> truthfully those two things are the same thing 12:44 < truename> yeah but open manufacturing has less well developed hardware for macroscopic self-replication.. so far 12:44 < kanzure> heh, we're working on that :) 12:45 < truename> hence the taking over the world topic.. 12:46 < kanzure> that's just a joke about pinky and the brain 12:46 < kanzure> we're not actually rabid world conquerors 12:46 < truename> yeh 12:47 < truename> i read that wired article posted to the list about hacker spaces.. i didn't realize there was a whole movement behind that.. I thought i was going to have to move to SF to go to techshop 12:48 < truename> turns out there's a hackerspace type place assembling in pittsburgh 12:49 < kanzure> so, techshop isn't hackerspaces, and techshop isn't fablab 12:49 < kanzure> these are actually different individual movements 12:49 < kanzure> techshop is a gym-model machine shop of sorts, where you aren't allowed to build your own tools 12:49 < kanzure> fablabs tend to be more academic :/ 12:49 < kanzure> hackerspaces tend to be more "let's glue LEDs together" 12:50 < truename> which is about the extent of my hardware knowledge :( 12:52 < truename> I'm a programmer, but the reprap and macro scale replication stuff fascinates me, and is why I'm here really 12:52 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:56 < katsmeow-afk> now i remember, i have all *!*@*hsd*.pa.comcast.net on ignore because of someone else 13:06 < kanzure> truename: good, good. recently we've been playing around with http://pythonocc.org/ 13:09 < kanzure> fenn: there's an API ref generator script if you haven't seen it, it comes with the svn repository. 13:10 < kanzure> but that doesn't tell you anything, and I haven't seen the OCC 5.1 docs to compare it 13:14 < kanzure> http://cc.aljazeera.net/ "creative commons repository" 13:14 < kanzure> yay CC repos are starting to appear 13:15 < kanzure> oh wait, nevermind, it's just a gallery of bullshit 13:17 < fenn> are you talking about doxygen the documentation generator? 13:18 < fenn> because that's totally worthless 13:18 < fenn> i can get that info better and more accurately by looking at the source 13:19 < fenn> the help file i'm looking at tells you really basic thing like what the acronyms stand for and what the software is capable of, and some tiny bits of sample code 13:19 < fenn> wildcat-cad is graham somethingorother 13:20 < fenn> frank hardy is just someone trying to play with it 13:21 < kanzure> oh, were they using doxygen? they had some sort of html-frames thingy, and now that I think about it, it did look like standard doxygen generated stuff 13:21 * kanzure hunts for a microphone 13:22 * katsmeow-afk presents one 13:22 < fenn> truename: techshop is bullshit anyway 13:28 < truename> i think this concept of community run hacker spaces based on european computer clubs is more what I originally imagined techshop to be 13:39 < fenn> no it's actually a bunch of greedy corporate scumbags setting up a 'company store' type of franchise.. people just haven't realized it yet 13:40 < fenn> they get lots of free publicity from various publishing companies for some reason 13:40 < fenn> or maybe it's not so free 14:11 < fenn> pretty cool book on life cycle assessment http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/Contents.html 14:11 < fenn> you have to manually edit the url to go to next page for some reason 14:12 < fenn> only talks about energy though 14:27 < fenn> heh there's a chapter about nuclear bombs 14:28 < fenn> 'how much energy would the lucky recipients have received if the bombs were used?' 14:29 < fenn> the answer: about 3 times the energy that went into making the bombs in the first place 15:05 < genehacker> looks like they might have started making my reprap parts again 15:06 < genehacker> saw the xaxis slide in a print tray 15:30 -!- myelinza1 [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:31 -!- myelinzar [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:48 < fenn> genehacker: regarding delivery by UAV's you may wish to read appendix C for reassurance that it is indeed feasible and practical http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sustainable/book/tex/ps/253.326.pdf 15:52 < kanzure> Adapted liquid crystal display backlighting unit for densitometry of stained polyacrylamide electrophoresis gels 15:54 < genehacker> hmmm... 15:54 < genehacker> DNA synthesis is more fun though 15:54 < genehacker> http://metasurfing.blogspot.com/2009/04/dawn-of-new-age-of-wind-power.html 15:54 < genehacker> geez 15:54 < genehacker> I am surprised at the amount of power a kite generator can put out 15:55 < genehacker> 6MW with something the size of a 747 15:57 < genehacker> 10 kw with something about the size of a piano 15:57 < genehacker> I need one of those 16:03 < fenn> cool animation at the end.. 16:03 < fenn> glad to see makani power is actually doing something 16:06 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-96-53.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:07 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-96-53.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:08 < genehacker> it might even be possible to keep a UAV up for months if you make it solar powered 16:22 < fenn> why months? i'd say indefinitely 16:23 < fenn> anyway the point was that the range and efficiency are not dependent on the scale of the plane, only on the fuel, so a small UAV could theoretically go 4000km 16:27 < fenn> or 13000km fully loaded with fuel 16:48 < splicer_> ...interNIC:s whois look is strangely fucked up right now 16:48 < splicer_> (lookup) 16:49 < splicer_> http://www.internic.net/whois.html 16:49 -!- duzt [n=duzt@dsl093-216-054.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:52 < fenn> splicer_: why do you say that? looks fine to me 16:55 < genehacker> mechanical breakdown fenn 16:55 < splicer_> hmm.. it works again... it was defunct for the last 5min... no data and different timestamp every time 16:55 < fenn> i'd hope you could keep an electric motor going in clear skies for more than a few months 16:56 < fenn> there's no weather at high altitude 16:57 < genehacker> what about anvil clouds? 16:57 < genehacker> hmmm... 16:57 < fenn> you avoid them, or just go higher 16:57 < genehacker> I guess if they were brushless 16:57 < fenn> even hobby RC planes use brushless motors 16:58 < fenn> so, no weather, no dust, what could go wrong? 16:58 < genehacker> yeah they do 16:58 < fenn> volcanic eruption? meteor impact? 16:58 < fenn> laser beams? 16:59 -!- anthonyl [n=duzt@dsl093-216-054.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:59 < fenn> the only thing stopping this is the FAA 17:04 < genehacker> hmmm 17:05 < kanzure> volcanic eruption, meteor impact, laser beams 17:05 < kanzure> things that can destroy the FAA? 17:05 < genehacker> though solar powered UAVs tend to be small 17:06 < genehacker> well the FAA has trouble regulating UAVs 17:06 < genehacker> the technology is cheap enough and ubiquitous enough such that it is now unregulatable 17:11 < fenn> we just need to make volcanoes, lasers, and meteors cheap and ubiquitous 17:22 < kanzure> lasers: check 17:22 < kanzure> meteors: check. just in the wrong place. 17:22 < kanzure> vlcanoes: ssh, it's where I put my evil lair 17:22 < fenn> kanzure: do you have a copy of fab.cba.mit.edu/git-repos ? 17:23 < fenn> trying to make some space on my disk 17:23 < kanzure> yes 17:23 < kanzure> wait 17:23 < kanzure> let me check before you delete 17:23 < genehacker> http://www.clare.com/Products/SolarCell.htm 17:23 < genehacker> a solar cell smaller than a penny 17:23 < genehacker> what could one use this for? 17:23 < kanzure> fenn: I have about.git, content.git, world.git, academy.git, classes.git 17:24 < kanzure> anything else? 17:24 < kanzure> why haven't you picked up your hard drive yet? 17:24 * kanzure just finished an interview with Singularity Hub 17:25 < fenn> not enough money 17:26 < kanzure> no gas? 17:26 < fenn> huh? 17:26 < fenn> well the hard drive i'm looking at is $110 17:26 < kanzure> I offered you a free 500 GB hard drive 17:26 < fenn> you did? 17:26 < kanzure> remember? 17:26 < kanzure> fuck.. 17:26 < fenn> no 17:26 < kanzure> blah 17:26 < kanzure> well screw you, go ahead and try to delete stuff 17:26 < kanzure> if you don't want it :) 17:26 < fenn> no, i want more space, not to delete stuff 17:26 < kanzure> heh. 17:27 < fenn> i'd burn to dvd but my dvd's are locked up in the shop 17:27 < kanzure> well come by any time 17:28 < fenn> ok where do i go 17:28 < kanzure> do you know where I live? 17:28 < fenn> er... some dorm on campus? 17:28 < kanzure> close enough 17:28 < kanzure> if you can get to 24th and guadalupe, you're good. 17:30 < kanzure> the interview: http://heybryan.org/chats/2009-04-14_SingularityHub_interview.html 17:31 < splicer_> I ordered 4TB of disk 2 days ago 17:31 < fenn> "Once you go around the internet a certain number of times, you begin to run into the same people, or the same topics and similarly interesting things." it's true! 17:33 < kanzure> splicer_: :) 17:33 < splicer_> ...i guess that's when you realize you know everything 17:34 < kanzure> fenn: sarcasm? 17:34 < splicer_> (... gonna encrypt the suckers with TrueCrypt i think) 17:37 < splicer_> is it illegal to own pirated material in the us btw? ... is the posession illegal... like with drugs or unlicenced firearms? 17:37 < bkero> Yes 17:38 < kanzure> is my brain an unlicensed firearm? 17:38 < splicer_> can you get into trouble if someone looks at your ipod? 17:38 < bkero> We have a thing that not many other countries have, which is a concept of privacy. 17:39 < splicer_> kanzure: na, unhinged maybe 17:39 < bkero> The authorities would need a legitimate reason to look at your iPod. And then a reason to suspect that the music on your iPod is pirated. 17:39 < bkero> Then they would need to prove that it's pirated. 17:39 < kanzure> if they look at it without a warrant, you have the upper hand 17:39 < splicer_> has that ever happened? 17:39 < kanzure> probably. 17:41 < fenn> splicer_: my understanding is that it's only illegal to redistribute copyrighted material, not to possess it 17:42 < splicer_> that's the way I understood it too... same law was applied here in 2005. 17:42 < fenn> there is this thing with RIAA claiming you have caused damage to their business by downloading copyrighted material, but that's not really legal as far as i know 17:43 < fenn> it's just that most people find it easier to fork over $n dollars to RIAA than $M to lawyers etc 17:43 < splicer_> they have sued successfully 17:43 < splicer_> things were shiny here up until first of april... 17:45 < splicer_> then a law cam into effect that made it possible for copyright holders to request the owner of a specific IP-adress... used to be only the police could.. and they were not allowed to beacuse f the privacy concern... offence was not considered serious enough. 17:47 < fenn> blah.. that'll just drive things further into darknets 17:48 < fenn> i think they've sued people who dont even own computers 17:48 < fenn> so apparently it doesn't even matter 17:48 < splicer_> yes... It was an eyeopener to me that most people don't actually understand what the net is. 17:50 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-96-53.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:50 < splicer_> There is a lobby group here called the Anti Piracy Bureau... they wanted the recent legislation so they would be able to successfully procetute illegal filesharers... 17:50 < kanzure> heh so a friend suggested that I start attending all of the advanced classes and just hang out 17:50 < kanzure> make some comments about how the professors are all wrong 17:50 < kanzure> have a good time. 17:52 < splicer_> ....when 'the Anti Piracy Bureau' went online, some kids registered 'The Piracy Bureau'... 17:53 < splicer_> ...they got a lot of press... and they ended up starting a political party... as a joke: 'The Pirate Party'. 17:54 < splicer_> ... but it's getting pretty big now to everyones surprise, their youth section is the second biggest of all political parties here 17:56 < splicer_> in 2 months there is an election for the general assembly of the european parliament, and it looks like 'The Pirate Party' are going to take seats there. 17:59 < fenn> wow 17:59 < fenn> i'll believe it when i see it 18:04 < splicer_> The Party switched primary focus from piracy to personal integrity on the net... there was an very unpopular echelon like law passed here late last year. 18:05 < splicer_> There is also the Pirate Bay Trial, which was extremely badly prepared by the prosecution... the ended up looking like assholes in the media. 18:08 < fenn> personal integrity? 18:08 < splicer_> privacy.. sorry 18:09 < fenn> ah are you referring to the packet logging of everything to/from russia? 18:10 < splicer_> yes.. that's the one... that would work wouldn't it? ; ) 18:10 < fenn> seems like they'd just move their servers somewhere else 18:10 < fenn> whoever it was they were trying to catch 18:10 < splicer_> ...or use encryption 18:11 < fenn> encryption can't hide things after the fact 18:11 < fenn> like "you sent xx gigs of data to this IP" 18:11 < fenn> and they can find your keys and decode the data 18:11 < fenn> for example by bashing in your door and taking the computer 18:12 < splicer_> ... and freezing my ram 18:12 < fenn> eh, good luck with that 18:14 < splicer_> it actually works.. it seems ram keeps most of the data for at least 10min after power is swithed off... 18:16 < splicer_> it's possible to copy the ram without opening the machine even... one can plug in an USB drive.. boot to that and the only program the usb runs fetches the contents of ram. 18:17 < fenn> i'll keep it in mind next time i'm raided by a TLA 18:17 < fenn> reboot -> memtest 18:18 < fenn> yes, officer? 18:18 < fenn> just doing a monthly memtest, you know 18:18 < splicer_> it's something one would want the motherboard to do automatically 18:19 < fenn> you know i'm surprised nobody's found any hardware backdoors yet 18:19 < fenn> or at least they havent been publicized 18:20 < splicer_> you mean the rumors about chinese manufactued PC:s? 18:22 < fenn> yeah, there's no reason why intel/U.S. government wouldnt do it too 18:23 < splicer_> is any of it actually manufactured in the US? 18:23 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-96-53.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:23 < splicer_> my current processor is made in Malaysia 18:25 < fenn> i read somewhere that no US manufacturers have the capability to make blank PCB materials 18:26 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:26 < splicer_> I don't know... that's a fast changing world. 18:27 < splicer_> It seems if there were backdoors, it would be a weapon one could use only once. 18:27 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:27 < fenn> typical spy problem 18:27 < fenn> if you've read any vernor vinge stuff he goes into it 18:28 < splicer_> I'm not so big on fiction 18:28 < fenn> http://vrinimi.org/front9uns.jpg 18:29 < fenn> your loss 18:30 < splicer_> maybe 18:30 < genehacker> blank pcb materials? 18:30 < fenn> http://vrinimi.org/back9rev.jpg 18:31 < fenn> genehacker: fiberglass with copper foil, mostly 18:31 < genehacker> what do you mean? 18:31 < genehacker> for what are they used for? 18:31 < genehacker> spying? 18:32 < fenn> for making circuit boards 18:32 < splicer_> we were talking about where circuitry was manufactured 18:33 < genehacker> oh 18:33 < fenn> talking about why we haven't seen any chinese hardware backdoors in IC's yet 18:33 < splicer_> i really like the fact that I can encrypt my stuff so noone... absulutely noone can get to it. 18:33 < genehacker> and the possibility of spy chips? 18:33 < genehacker> how do you know the chinese can't 18:34 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:34 < genehacker> haven't you heard of content control chips? 18:34 < fenn> heh like the V-chip? 18:35 < genehacker> no 18:35 < genehacker> forgot the exact name 18:35 < genehacker> but it's a pretty scary chip 18:35 < splicer_> I didn't look into that... there were rumours but has anything ever been found? 18:35 < fenn> mind control chips? 18:35 < fenn> embedded in cell phone towers? 18:36 < splicer_> i have my tinfoil hat for that 18:36 < genehacker> no 18:36 < fenn> tinfoil hat can't stop aliens, dude 18:36 < genehacker> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/05/1745239 18:36 < splicer_> good... they can take me home 18:36 < fenn> in fact, my sources inform me that most aluminum foil has embedded alien circuitry to amplify the mind control waves 18:37 < genehacker> oh yeah the TPM chip 18:37 < splicer_> ... I'm all for bringing porn to the third world 18:38 < genehacker> Other uses 18:38 < genehacker> Almost any encryption-enabled application can in theory make use of a TPM, including: 18:38 < genehacker> * Digital Rights Management 18:38 < genehacker> * Software license protection & enforcement 18:38 < genehacker> * Password protection 18:38 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module 18:38 < splicer_> checking 18:40 < genehacker> DRM and software license protection and enforcement chipped in is a bit scary 18:42 < splicer_> heh.. i hadn't heard of this ; ) 18:46 < splicer_> DRM is one of those things I thought we were done with... it was tried, it fucked things up, it failed. 18:58 < splicer_> One of the claims of 'The Piracy Bureau' is that file sharing systems are the new printing press. That procecuting TPB is like procecuting the new Gutenberg. 18:59 < fenn> yep, except nobody's figured that out yet except pirates 18:59 < genehacker> heh 18:59 < fenn> see for example the lack of a debtorrent repository, or wikipedia torrent 19:00 < fenn> or distributed youtube 19:01 < fenn> surely someone's working on that O-o 19:01 < genehacker> heh youtube has such a selection it's practically youtube 19:02 < genehacker> and backup website that play removed videos 19:02 < fenn> say that again, but make sense 19:03 < splicer_> fenn.. there are some cloud streaming systems... I know one of the skype guys has a project that works along those lines. 19:06 < fenn> what is 'cloud'? i hear this all the time and it seems to mean different things to different people 19:06 < kanzure> it means bullshit 19:07 < fenn> it's like 'disconnected from reality computing' 19:07 < splicer_> what.. you don't like buzzwords all of a sudden? ; ) 19:07 < splicer_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joost 19:08 < splicer_> (movies through distributed sources) 19:10 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 19:11 < fenn> i dont get how that could work with a flash player 19:12 < genehacker> you'd be surprised what flash can do 19:12 < kanzure> what people are talking about when they say cloud stuff, they're really just talking about the Amazon S3 API and the Google thingy API 19:12 < kanzure> isn't flash just java except web2.0-ier? 19:13 < splicer_> yeah.. AS3 is. 19:13 < fenn> flash doesnt run when the browser isn't open 19:13 < kanzure> fenn: not true :( 19:13 < kanzure> unfortunately :( 19:13 < fenn> eh? 19:13 < kanzure> flash can run as a separate app actually 19:14 < fenn> but it's not running in the background as a p2p file sharing server 19:14 < kanzure> ./flashinterpreterthingy blah.flashthingy & 19:14 < fenn> so you're limited to the upload of users who are currently watching the show 19:14 < kanzure> then run 'bg' 19:14 < fenn> and 99% of DSL/cable modem are much higher download then upload rate 19:14 < genehacker> http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/04/13 19:15 < kanzure> heybryan.org <- case and point 19:15 < bkero> sdsl is fucking expensive 19:15 < genehacker> linux is teh evils 19:15 < bkero> what 19:16 < fenn> oo scaryy "a black screen with white font which he uses prompt commands on" 19:16 < fenn> i guess green on transparent is twice as evil 19:17 < splicer_> obvious terrorist 19:17 < fenn> that whole thing is one non-sequitur after another 19:18 < fenn> anyway, joost doesn't fit my definition of p2p 19:18 < fenn> or distributed or whatever 19:19 < fenn> it's a "user-supplemented" content distribution network 19:19 < splicer_> problem is, a torrent tracker is better. 19:19 < splicer_> yes 19:19 < fenn> DHT is better 19:19 < fenn> nothing can stop a DHT short of a nuclear bomb 19:20 < fenn> and then some 19:20 < fenn> multiple nuclear bombs 19:20 < fenn> hum 19:20 < splicer_> hehe.. that came up in the trial btw.. it was one of the things the prosecution learned during trial. 19:21 < fenn> what what? 19:21 < bkero> genehacker: give the eff all of your manbabies 19:21 < splicer_> another thing was that the torrent usually pointed to multiple trackers... they assumed that because they downloaded the torrent file from TPB... the download used that tracker. 19:22 < splicer_> This they learned during the third day i think it was of... trial... they hadn't documented what tracker was used. 19:23 < kanzure> wtf? srsly? 19:23 < fenn> d'eaux 19:23 < fenn> btw you can use multiple trackers at once 19:24 < splicer_> There were 2 withesses... that had been paid to download... one hadn't documented it.. the other one said in court he had done it.. but could not produce the documentation whan asked. 19:24 < splicer_> It was just a great trial. 19:27 < splicer_> The funniest thing was... the procecution claimed it was this well organized organization... it was supposed to be lead by a guy who owned a hosting company... he is wealthy... an heir to a big fortune... 19:27 < splicer_> so the prosecution claimed he was the brain... he had paid the youngsters to do this criminal act.. create TPB. 19:29 < splicer_> And after a few days... the whole trial was what.. 10 days maybe... after a few days... they start to understand that noone was in charge... it was a hacker space.... 19:29 < splicer_> this wasn't even on the prosecutors map... he just couldn't understand it. 19:31 < fenn> they based a trial on two (paid) witnesses? 19:32 < fenn> seems like it'd be worth having a pre-emptive fuckup trial just to muddy the waters 19:32 < fenn> act like you're the prosecution but just do a terrible job of things 19:32 < splicer_> They had 2.5 years to prepare the thing... they fucked it up 19:35 < splicer_> There is a rumor why they were raided in the first place... this was discussed in the media at the time 19:36 < fenn> um, because the RIAA said to? 19:36 < splicer_> yupp 19:36 < fenn> just goes to show "if you want something done right, do it yourself" 19:37 < splicer_> the rumor is US authorities put pressure on swedish authorities and the swedish minister of justice ordered the raid. 19:41 < splicer_> ...after the raid TPB was down for 3 days 19:47 -!- genehacker_ [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-96-53.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:55 < fenn> kanzure: did you really have a plot of diybio posts per day? 19:56 * ybit wonders why the map of hackers linked to from diybio.org is titled "st. louis hackspaces' 19:56 < ybit> s/hackers/diybioers 19:57 < ybit> hackerspaces*... 19:57 < ybit> or something like that, it was last night when i looked @ it 19:57 * fenn wonders what "© Copyright DIYbio 2008" means 19:58 < ybit> o.O 19:58 < ybit> hmm 19:58 < ybit> maybe not exclusive, hopefully, surely 19:59 < splicer_> ...see.. time for the revolution... come join the biopunks ;) 19:59 < ybit> that should use the kopimi imho 19:59 < ybit> s/that/they 19:59 < fenn> is diybio a corporation? (nonprofit?) 20:01 < ybit> i haven't seen mention of it yet 20:01 < ybit> guess jason and mackenzie would be the guys to ask.. 20:01 < ybit> do they ever lurk here? 20:01 < ybit> i saw a 'cowell' at one time 20:02 < fenn> yes, cowell is cis-action 20:02 < fenn> i remember some news piece that said 'so mac sold his car to start diybio' 20:02 < fenn> which seems like an odd thing to do 20:03 < fenn> mailing lists being free and all that 20:04 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-96-53.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:04 < ybit> perhaps to buy a bunch of cheap off-the-shelf products for the experiments during the meetings... 20:06 < splicer_> maybe to free the time they are putting in 20:06 < splicer_> I'm glad they do it 20:07 < splicer_> There will be others 20:07 < fenn> other community labs you mean? 20:07 < splicer_> yeah 20:07 < fenn> certainly; there already are 20:07 < fenn> nyc and sf 20:07 < splicer_> what are those called? 20:07 < ybit> huh, there's a diybio igem team this year?.. 20:08 < splicer_> really? 20:08 < fenn> noisebridge and, uh.. lemme look 20:09 < ybit> http://vimeo.com/3454392 it's mentioned @ 3:31 20:09 < fenn> ok nyc hasnt got a lab yet, they are sort of hanging around NYC-resistor i guess 20:12 < fenn> seattle has a lab 20:13 < splicer_> NYC have a blog and a youtube channel I think: http://www.biopunk.org/diybionyc-taking-off-t110.html 20:13 < splicer_> Thank you for noisebridge... i missed that. 20:14 < ybit> ah, 20:14 < ybit> DIYbio iGEM teams, DIYbio Safety Working Group, and a DIYbio symposium at iGEM 2009 20:14 < ybit> 20:14 < ybit> Inbox X 20:14 < ybit> 20:14 < ybit> Reply to all 20:14 < ybit> Forward 20:14 < ybit> Reply by chat 20:14 < ybit> Filter messages like this 20:14 < ybit> Print 20:14 < ybit> Add to Contacts list 20:14 < ybit> Delete this message 20:14 < ybit> Report phishing 20:14 < ybit> Report not phishing 20:14 < ybit> Show original 20:14 < ybit> Show in fixed width font 20:14 < ybit> Show in variable width font 20:14 < ybit> Message text garbled? 20:14 < fenn> so, nyc has "We have some gel boxes, a transfer apparatus, a big power supply, a dry incubator, a microfuge, and a water bath. But we have no place to put it yet. 20:14 < ybit> Why is this spam/nonspam? 20:14 < ybit> Mackenzie Cowell 20:14 < ybit> to diybio, diybio-nyc, diybio-boston, diybio---seatt., DIYbio-SF, diybio-announce, diybio-chicago 20:15 < ybit> 20:15 < ybit> show details Apr 10 (4 days ago) 20:15 < ybit> 20:15 < ybit> 20:15 < ybit> Reply 20:15 < ybit> 20:15 < ybit> 20:15 < ybit> Several weeks ago the Director of iGEM (my old boss) asked me to drop by to chat. He basically told me iGEM wasn't going to allow amateur teams for 2009, despite earlier statements to the contrary, for two reasons: 20:15 < ybit> 1. iGEM depends on the academic institution of each team to provide a safety framework for that team. Because there is no formal safety framework or guidelines or precedent for amateur teams working outside of traditional labs, iGEM is afraid of the potential safety liability and doesn't want amateur teams to participate until there is some kind of framework (2010!). 20:15 < ybit> 2. Most of iGEM's funding comes from grants to support undergraduate education. A host of amateurs who are not undergraduates would be supported by grants for undergraduate education, which could be a situation the grantors wouldn't like. Randy didn't want to take that risk. 20:15 < ybit> ack! 20:15 * ybit deserves a trout smacking 20:15 < ybit> meant to paste the email title.. 20:17 < splicer_> This is why I'm glad DIYbio exists. They can deal with this. The community needs the biobricks. 20:19 < fenn> someone needs to make a plasmid with the entire briobricks library on it 20:20 < fenn> then it's a simple matter of ordering pcr primers or making them from scratch 20:20 < splicer_> hehe.. neat 20:21 < fenn> and then stick that plasmid in some e. coli and distribute it widely 20:21 < splicer_> ...would be a heavy plasmid probably 20:22 < fenn> until we have desktop dna synthesizers capable of multi-kb oligo's, it's the only way to get widespread diffusion 20:22 < fenn> otherwise it costs too much to prepare the library 20:23 < fenn> filter paper is cheap; DNA purification is not 20:24 < splicer_> i don't know enough... isn't it just PCR? 20:25 < splicer_> I have this idea of biopunk in the back of my head... I don't want to deal with wetlabs... i want to design things in cads. 20:26 < splicer_> There is no intristic value in the DIY thing for me 20:27 < genehacker_> that's why I want to make a multi kb gene synth fenn 20:27 < fenn> yeah 20:27 < fenn> splicer_: it's essentially a software problem at this point 20:27 < genehacker_> i figure we could easily do at least 65,000 mer 20:27 < fenn> splicer_: the biobricks people just havent provided a formal syntax for how to put the pieces together 20:28 < fenn> genehacker_: i think you'll need some kind of error checking for that 20:28 < genehacker_> or error correction 20:28 < fenn> same thing 20:28 < fenn> have you looked at r. durans yet? 20:28 < splicer_> I feel a bit like when William Gibson bought his first pc... a mac.. and herd this scraping sound... and took it back to the store.. and was dismayed to learn that inside was a lowtech disk spinning really fast. 20:28 < genehacker_> yes 20:29 < fenn> macs didnt have disks inside? 20:29 < splicer_> it was a mac 20:29 < fenn> i mean, they didnt have a hard drive 20:30 < genehacker_> http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~allen/PAPERS/grasp.plan.ra03.pdf 20:30 < fenn> up until the quadro i think 20:30 < splicer_> Gibson explained that he thought computers were theese chrystalline pure structures. 20:30 < genehacker_> kanzure you interested in topology of mating parts right? 20:31 < splicer_> fenn: maybe it was the floppy 20:31 < kanzure> ybit: there is no diybio igem team because igem doesn't like diybio 20:31 < ybit> sí, i gathered that :) 20:31 < genehacker_> so what I want to know is how we can drive an epson printer head 20:32 < kanzure> genehacker_: yes, I am interested in the topology of mating parts 20:32 < kanzure> genehacker_: what do you mean 'drive' and what do you mean by 'head'? 20:32 < kanzure> do you mean an inkjet cartridge holder thingy? 20:33 < genehacker_> the part that sprays the inkdroplets 20:33 < genehacker_> the thing that shoots the ink 20:33 < genehacker_> that you don't replace 20:33 < fenn> why not just use the printer as-is? 20:33 < kanzure> gasp! 20:33 < genehacker_> because then you have to build an anoxic chamber for it 20:33 < fenn> besides that whole ink-level chip thing, which you can get around by not using an epson printer, but HP instead 20:34 < fenn> well you're going to have to do that anyway 20:34 < genehacker_> there is a reason why I want to use an epson head 20:34 < fenn> HP makes piezo heads now 20:34 < genehacker_> replaceable piezo heads? 20:34 < genehacker_> the epson printer I have doesn't have an inklevel sensor 20:35 < genehacker_> and there are various work arounds for that anyway 20:35 < genehacker_> if HP makes replaceable piezo heads then we have a winner 20:36 < fenn> well i'm feeling lazy and dont see anything right off the bat 20:36 < fenn> so good luck with your printer endeavors 20:36 < genehacker_> well we just need something that can dispense a precise amount of liquid 20:38 < kanzure> I know it's useless, but there was a neat paper about how to use headphones to dispense precise amounts of liquid 20:38 < genehacker_> that's not useless 20:38 < genehacker_> link to paper 20:39 < genehacker_> this is better than a printer head 20:39 < genehacker_> printer heads are hard to find 20:39 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Controlled%20deposition%20of%20picoliter%20amounts%20of%20fluid%20using%20an%20ultrasonically%20driven%20micropipette.pdf 20:39 < genehacker_> wrt headphones 20:39 < kanzure> Controlled deposition of picoliter amounts of fluid using an ultrasonically driven micropipette 20:40 < kanzure> "composed of a micropipette astened to a lead zirconate titanate piezoelectric" 20:40 < kanzure> haha. duct tape! 20:40 < genehacker_> a microplotter, hmmm... 20:40 < genehacker_> how viscous a liquid can this thing put out? 20:42 < kanzure> I saw a recent paper that plotted viscosity of fluids and something about inkjet printers 20:42 < genehacker_> if it pulls liquid back into the syringe it might be a problem 20:42 < genehacker_> hmmm 20:43 < genehacker_> why not make an array of these things to shoot colloidal silica for quick ceramics 20:43 < kanzure> don't you knowh ow to operate a pipettor? 20:43 < kanzure> huh? 20:43 < kanzure> an array of these giant things? 20:43 < genehacker_> well I must go now 20:44 < kanzure> hm. this could be used to manufacture small dots of ice. 20:44 < splicer_> kanzure, you're in the BioBricks Foundation? 20:48 < splicer_> There is no hard and fast rule that hinders DIY:ers from getting hold of BioBricks right? It's just that the question hasn't come up? 20:48 -!- jm|space [n=jm@p57B9CA8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [No route to host] 21:08 < fenn> splicer_: there is supposed to be a material transfer agreement but in some contexts that can get bypassed 21:08 -!- genehacker_ [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-96-53.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:11 < fenn> can't decide whether encryption on a pcr machine is overkill or not 21:11 < fenn> it would raise the cost and development complexity significantly 21:12 < splicer_> fenn: thanks... interesting form of open source then. 21:14 -!- splicer_ is now known as splicer_afk 21:35 < kanzure> fenn: thanks for those diybio emails. 21:35 < kanzure> I feel like I'm herding really stupid cats there sometimes 21:35 < kanzure> it's like being on damage patrol duty :( 21:36 < fenn> i figure nothing's permanent anyway 21:37 < kanzure> did you read the interview transcript? 21:37 < fenn> yeah 21:37 < kanzure> was there anything I said that was particularly stupid? 21:37 -!- fenn_ [n=fenn@cpe-72-177-52-180.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:38 < fenn_> not that i recall.. i'm not sure i want to be associated with "keiki gels" though :P 21:38 < kanzure> heh. 21:38 -!- fenn [n=fenn@cpe-72-177-52-180.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:39 -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn 21:56 < kanzure> blah, got another email saying I qualify for an fMRI study 21:56 < kanzure> but I have glasses and no contacts 21:57 < kanzure> "would you like a free fMRI study of your brain?" 21:57 < kanzure> "uh, hell yes?" 22:05 < fenn> i feel like i should go to the shop and work on stuff 22:05 < fenn> but i'd rather watch anime.. 22:05 < fenn> such a cruel world 22:29 < kanzure> you could do .. both? 22:30 < fenn> no, unfortunately 22:30 < fenn> once i get my wearable online 22:30 < kanzure> pfft, laptop? 22:30 < kanzure> um, anyway 22:30 < kanzure> Campbell was trying to propose a new project to me today 22:31 < kanzure> but I set my foot down and said no, 22:31 < kanzure> so now we're really really doing skdb 22:31 < fenn> heh 22:31 < kanzure> just need to write up some timeline goals for him 22:31 < kanzure> and I think he's willing to find some funding for it or something 22:31 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-173-190.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:32 < kanzure> funding in terms of, I mean, stuff to pay me or others or something 22:32 < fenn> i dont even know what skdb needs atm 22:32 < kanzure> huh? I do. I was going to go off and do that face stuff, but then I got distracted and I've been reading papers for the last 36 hours 22:32 < fenn> right 22:33 < genehacker> what use would ice dots be? 22:33 < fenn> for making molds 22:33 < kanzure> genehacker: you could pour polymers over it and they set 22:33 < kanzure> yeah 22:33 < kanzure> but would they melt too quickly? I dunno 22:33 < genehacker> oh rapid freeze prototyping 22:33 < kanzure> yeah 22:33 < fenn> just use polymers that cure at <0C 22:33 < genehacker> I was thinking you were using them for some sort of new food 22:33 < fenn> heh like dippin dots 22:34 < kanzure> fenn: we have those? 22:34 < fenn> ... and this machine makes DIPPIN DOTS 22:34 < fenn> *ding* 22:34 < kanzure> yay 22:34 < genehacker> you could also use sodium acetate 22:34 < genehacker> if you could find away to shoot it out rather than contacting the surface 22:35 < kanzure> blow air 22:35 < genehacker> that might cause the sodium acetate to crystallize 22:36 < kanzure> no, the water I mean 22:36 < kanzure> to make the drop fall off of the pipette tip 22:38 < kanzure> what the fuck jonathan 22:38 < kanzure> "graphics are a requirement" 22:38 < kanzure> burn in hell. give me a shell or give me death 22:39 < fenn> graphics in this case being some html forms 22:39 < fenn> i mean there's nothing graphical about PCR really 22:40 < fenn> a progress bar? what? 22:41 < fenn> ok off to the shop to get some dvd-r's and maybe do some electronics 22:44 < genehacker> graphics are a requirement for PCR? 22:44 < kanzure> genehacker: Jonathan Cline is making a thermocycler 22:44 < kanzure> so he wants to write some software for his laptop 22:44 < kanzure> and he wants to make it graphics-only 22:44 < kanzure> instead of something that you don't have to look at 22:45 < genehacker> whatisthisidon'teven 22:45 < genehacker> is it going to look like something out a scifi movie? 22:45 < kanzure> uh? why would I know the answer to that? 22:46 < genehacker> I don't know either 22:46 < genehacker> a timer perhaps? 22:46 < fenn> ... or not. anyway i'm bored 22:47 < genehacker> a couple of LEDs? 22:50 < fenn> pcr machines mostly look sort of like an overgrown calculator 22:51 < fenn> calculator + test tube tray 22:51 < fenn> i dont imagine this would be much different 22:55 < fenn> kanzure: i've read all those papers you just forwarded 22:55 * fenn pats self on back and puts email in 'done' tray 22:56 < genehacker> good point 22:57 < kanzure> fenn: I don't know if that's good or bad. some of them were bad papers. 22:57 < fenn> is 11pm on a tuesday too late for meatspace activities? 22:57 < kanzure> if you have a giant concrete building to play in? nah 22:58 < fenn> i mean primate social activities 22:58 < fenn> i dont think anyone is in the concrete building 22:58 < fenn> at least les isn't answering any phones 22:58 < fenn> not that that means anything 22:58 * fenn grumbles about keys 22:58 < fenn> *pout* 22:59 < fenn> ping reply! response: negatory 23:00 < genehacker> no 23:00 < kanzure> fenn: I still don't have keys to ADL 23:00 < genehacker> it is never too late 23:00 < genehacker> it's called nightlife 23:00 * kanzure makes a bat-face 23:03 * fenn puts on night-vision goggles 23:05 * kanzure mounts ultrasonic transducers on his forehead and runs into things 23:05 < kanzure> or something 23:05 < fenn> chair legs :P 23:06 < fenn> ok so i could use a 500GB hard drive and some fresh air 23:06 < fenn> or any hard drive really 23:06 < kanzure> I'll probably be asleep sooner rather than later, so if you want to get it tonight, now would be good 23:06 < fenn> ok; assuming i'm at 24 & guadalupe, then what? 23:07 < kanzure> you go to the big tall white building and call me. 23:07 < kanzure> it's one street to the west of guadalupe 23:08 < fenn> by subway and italian longhorn? 23:08 < kanzure> so coming up from the south, you could probably take 'san antonio' instead of guadalupe, and get a space out in front. 23:08 < kanzure> yep 23:08 < kanzure> subway is directly under me. 23:08 < fenn> ok see you in 20 mins --- Log closed Tue Apr 14 23:09:52 2009 --- Log opened Tue Apr 14 23:11:54 2009 23:11 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@66.112.232.233] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:11 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 21 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 21 normal] 23:11 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 1 secs 23:12 < kanzure> blah, I somehow was booted from my KDE session by removing a hard drive that wasn't wired up? I probably bumped something :/ 23:19 -!- elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap