--- Day changed Tue May 05 2009
01:02 < ybit> decent video to watch while chowing on lunch: http://vodpod.com/watch/1081030-henry-markram-designing-the-human-mind
01:02 < kanzure-> is this new?
01:02 < ybit> oct. 2008
01:02 < ybit> i haven't seen it yet, i just kind of figured that it's decent
01:09 < kanzure-> "biological refinement strategy" was a slide from the 2005 presentation, but it wasn't readable
01:10 -!- any60077089 is now known as katsmeow-afk
01:16 < kanzure-> "plug in biological data and get a brain out on the other side"
01:33 < kanzure-> fenn: awake?
01:38 < xp_prg> the brain is more complex then they think it is
01:39 < kanzure-> than who thinks it is?
03:38 < genehacker> so kanzure you remember that program we used for CFD?
03:38 < genehacker> can it solve ODE's?
03:49 < kanzure> "Neurons in the orbitofrontal cortex encode economic value" <- wtf
03:49 < kanzure> yeah, but I wouldn't suggest using it
03:49 < kanzure> go get octave or maxima
03:49 < kanzure> or sympy
03:52 < genehacker> hmmm
03:52 < genehacker> probably not allowed to do that in retrospect
03:53 < genehacker> though there is no rule against it...
03:57 < kanzure> my head hurts.
04:18 < genehacker> hahaha
04:32 < genehacker> this working model documentation says working model can do some pretty crazy stuff
04:35 < genehacker> like access other applications
04:39 < kanzure-> all applications can do that.
04:39 < kanzure-> that's called programming and APIs... and stuff.
04:41 < genehacker> this is something that's going to be running on my teacher's computer
04:42 < genehacker> hmmm....
04:44 < genehacker> it's just something I didn't expect from a program like this
04:50 < kanzure-> why are you doing homework on the week of final exams
04:51 < genehacker> it isn't final exams week yet
04:52 < genehacker> this is a bonus lab
04:52 < genehacker> IE make a pool trick shot with a kinematic modeller
05:00 < kanzure-> CEO position at Alcor is open
05:00 < kanzure-> any takers?
05:01 < kanzure-> they are about to nominate an Austin-area church advocate who wrote a childrens' book on cryonics
05:01 < wrldpc_> wow
05:03 -!- any17551714 is now known as katsmeow
05:06 < kanzure-> wonder what happened to the last CEO
05:06 < kanzure-> cue cryogenics jokes.
05:07 < genehacker> he's in storage
05:19 < genehacker> why would working model want to change the desktop wallpaper?
05:28 < kanzure-> across-int1 = (across-int2 * 2)/D_gear
05:29 < kanzure-> across2 = (across-int1*D_gear)/2
05:29 < kanzure-> across-int2 = (across-int1*D_gear)/2
05:29 < kanzure-> what's the point of this
05:29 < kanzure-> across-int2 is defined as across-int1, and across-int1 is defined as across-int2
05:29 < kanzure-> this is retarded
05:35 < genehacker> ????]
06:04 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk
06:25 < kanzure-> linear, proportional, .. what's next? logarithmic, right?
06:26 < kanzure-> ah, logarithmic proportionalities
06:29 < kanzure-> genehacker: do you see many logarithmic proportionalities between basic machine elements in the designs you look at?
06:32 < genehacker> ???
06:32 < genehacker> log function cam?
06:33 < genehacker> I'm not sure what you mean
06:49 < kanzure> is there a log function cam?
06:51 < genehacker> yeah
06:51 < genehacker> there are sin computers
06:51 < genehacker> you name it
06:51 < genehacker> what the fuck is a recursion function
06:51 < kanzure> are you serious?
06:51 < genehacker> yes
06:52 < kanzure> a recursive function is one that, essentially, calls itself
06:52 < genehacker> function result=mysteriousfunction( x )
06:52 < genehacker> if ( x == 0 )
06:52 < genehacker> result = 0;
06:52 < genehacker> else
06:52 < genehacker> result = x + mysteriousfunction( x - 1 );
06:52 < genehacker> end
06:52 < kanzure> right
06:52 < genehacker> what does this do?
06:52 < genehacker> I know what it does for zero
06:52 < kanzure> well, what happens when you call it for x=5
06:52 < genehacker> I get 15
06:53 < kanzure> result = x + result = x-1 + result = x-2 + result = x-3 + result = x-4 + result = x-5 + ..
06:53 < kanzure> er, except that my syntax sucks
06:53 < genehacker> oh
06:53 < genehacker> ok
06:53 < kanzure> result = x + (result = x-1 + (result = x-2 + (result = x-3 + (result = x-4 + (result = x-5 + ..)))))
06:53 < genehacker> ok
06:54 < kanzure> make sense?
06:54 < genehacker> I can see why they are awesome now
06:54  * kanzure sighs
06:55 < genehacker> anyway look up logarithmic follower cam
06:56 < genehacker> no wait
06:58 < genehacker> look up basic fire control mechanisms it's in there
07:04 < genehacker> http://www.hnsa.org/doc/op1140/op1140-2.pdf
07:04 < genehacker> somewhere in cams I think
07:05 < genehacker> why do you ask?
07:05 < kanzure>  because I don't trust this paper
07:05 < kanzure> it's basically claiming that proportional relations are enough for every mechanical design problem
07:05 < kanzure> proportional relations between variables of different mechanisms, basically
07:06 < genehacker> hmmmm...
07:07 < genehacker> take a look at some disk integrators then
08:55 < ybit> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=7493337&page=1 :: "brain bucket" mri
09:59 -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn
13:48 < kardan_> hi there
13:48 < kardan_> is there a bank or foundation for open source hardware
13:50 < kardan_> my idea is this: there are plenty of useful projects which should be supported.
13:52 < kardan_> we could organize the distribution in the way that parts go to the foundation
13:54 < kardan_> .. which will purchase resources in bigger amounts what is cheaper
14:40 < fenn> kardan__i: yes, see http://oshwbank.org/ but it's new and unproven and possibly only for investing and not "group buys"
14:41 < fenn> reprap research foundation was doing group buy stuff (sort of) until the guy doing all the work 'sold out'
14:43 < fenn> i must admit i dont really understand the concept
14:47 -!- Utopiah is now known as UtopiahGHML
17:18 < xp_prg> what is mtDNA?
17:22 < xp_prg> SNP chip from Affymetrix (SNP 6) is there a picture of this chip?
17:41 -!- kardan__i is now known as kardan
18:02 < kardan> fenni i googled reprap - its a great site
18:02 < kardan> -i
18:43 < kanzure> sleep sucks. where have the hours of my day gone?
21:08 < wrldpc_> What are some alternate forms of computation besides electrically-based logic gates.
21:09 < wrldpc_> silicon-based logic gates with electrical premises.
21:09 < wrldpc_> can't you compute with droplets of water?
21:09 < wrldpc_> bacteria?
21:10 < fenn> bubbles
21:10 < fenn> quantum states
21:10 < fenn> just about anything really
21:11 < fenn> the trick is finding something quick, convenient, and reliable
21:11 < fenn> there is even a 'journal of unconventional computation'
21:11 < kanzure-> graphene chip stuff
21:11 < kanzure-> DNA. (baaad)
21:11 < kanzure-> proteins..
21:12 < fenn> just saying DNA or protein doesn't really explain what sort of mechanism you're using
21:12 < kanzure-> sorry
21:12 < fenn> s'ok
21:12 < kanzure-> wrldpc_: what are you actually asking
21:14 < wrldpc_> excellent ... I'm just responding to this lady in regards to the mishandling of the application of x-ray and chemical technologies in the early 50s that (according to her) resulted in all kinds of nasty collateral damage.
21:15 < kanzure-> fenn: I have the adesign source code.
21:15 < kanzure-> now I just have to act like I understand lisp
21:28 < kanzure-> so I was wondering what to do.. I got some data from the algae lab stuff,
21:28 < kanzure-> but all of the data has no labels
21:39 < fenn> wrldpc_: chemicals + x-rays + ignorance != functional computer
21:39 < wrldpc_> yeah i realize that
21:40 < wrldpc_> but the manufacturing of computers is wasteful and toxic ... a new computational paradigm whereby we GROW our computers vs. smith them would prove more ecologically prudent.
21:40 < wrldpc_> whatever.  my convo with her is a play.
21:41 < fenn> just don't say 'genetically modified'
21:43 < fenn> my brother was working on some photonic crystal stuff.. optical circuits made of nothing but silica microspheres
21:43 < fenn> the circuit properties arise from empty spots in the lattice
21:44 < kanzure> fenn has a brother?
21:44 < fenn> sergeant sandwich is his latest handle
21:45 < kanzure> on what
21:45 < fenn> am i my brother's keeper?
21:45 < kanzure> what?
21:46 < fenn> -- Genesis 4:9  (thank you, google)
21:47 < xp_prg> wrldpc_ that is a project I want to do!
21:47 < wrldpc_> compute pi with water droplets?
21:48 < fenn> contemplate your navel with your navel?
21:48 < wrldpc_> whoa cool fenn re: crystal computation
21:48 < fenn> i have the paper around here somewhere
21:48 < wrldpc_> yo dawg
21:54 < fenn> kanzure: please chmod +t /var/www/papers/ on adl.serveftp.org
21:56 < fenn> and o+w
21:56 < fenn> i guess sticky bit isnt actually necessary
22:00 < kanzure> what's wrong with /var/www/papers ?
22:01 < fenn> i can't put stuff there
22:01 < kanzure> ok, done
22:01 < fenn> muwahahahaha
22:01 < kanzure> ?
22:01 < fenn> oh, excuse me.
22:02 < kanzure> I think a+rw would have been more nefarious
22:02 < fenn> um, that's essentially what you just did
22:03 < fenn> so.. here is that paper http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/lipkowitz_photonic_crystal_defects.pdf
22:04 < katsmeow-afk> besides, it redirects to /apache2-default, and 
22:04 < katsmeow-afk> From: http://adl.serveftp.org/apache2-default/
22:04 < katsmeow-afk> Not Found
22:05 < fenn> does not
22:13 < kanzure> should I be rsyncing' to adl.serveftp.org for /books/papers/ on heybryan.org/
22:13 < kanzure> ?
22:13 < kanzure> would anyone find that helpful/useful
22:14  * kanzure is making boxes for packing
22:15 < xp_prg> kanzure you moving?
22:15  * fenn is packing boxes for making
22:15 < fenn> oops i said a dirty word
22:15 < kanzure> for doing what now?
22:15 < kanzure> xp_prg: yes
22:15 < kanzure> I'm moving to the moon
22:15 < xp_prg> where you moving to?
22:15 < kanzure> the moon
22:15 < fenn> the dark side of the sun
22:15 < xp_prg> do you have a uhaul spaceship?
22:16 < kanzure> uh, I have my own trailer
22:16 < kanzure> thank you very much
22:16 < xp_prg> and it is a spaceship trailer?
22:17 < kanzure> if I say yes, you're always going to want to be using it
22:17 < xp_prg> that is true
22:18 < fenn> are you going to ride the bus to school or what?
22:18 < kanzure> bus, maybe biking
22:19 < fenn> i attempted to ride to campus yesterday to see how bad it was.. piece of crap bike had a tear in the tire and went flat at about 6th street
22:19 < fenn> so then i got to see how long it takes to walk back from downtown :)
22:20  * xp_prg hugs fenn so he won't be sad about his tire
22:20 < fenn> the new tire has these enormous knobs on it.. the rim is wobbly so the knobs rub against the frame
22:20 < fenn> did i mention i hate mountain bikes?
22:22 < kanzure> I'm not getting a mountain bike, as it turns out
22:22 < kanzure> I don't know how I am able to afford any of this
22:23 < fenn> how much is th rent?
22:24 < xp_prg> kanzure are you moving to california?
22:25 < fenn> yes, we're all going to sleep on your couch for three months
22:25 < fenn> not at the same time
22:25 < fenn> in an ambulatory, wave-like fashion
22:25  * fenn gets out the bilge pump
22:29 < xp_prg> kanzure where are you moving to?!
22:30 < fenn> xp_prg: hey. i'm curious, how do you actually make money?
22:32 < fenn> i mean, there must be some mechanism that causes people to eventually give you some
22:38 < fenn> guess i scared everybody off
22:41 < kanzure> I was eating
22:46 < xp_prg> I make computer software, what do you do fenn?
22:47 < fenn> xp_prg: you evaded the question. what i want to know is how you actually convince people to give you money
22:47 < xp_prg> with computer software I make
22:48 < fenn> so do you make the software first and then somehow convince them they should pay you?
22:48 < fenn> and how do you know anyone will want it?
22:48 < xp_prg> well I have an interview, then they see how good I am, and hire me and stuff
22:48 < kanzure> ..
22:48 < kanzure> why is it that jobfulness seems to be inversely proportional to intelligence?
22:48 < fenn> hey, what? hire you.. 
22:49 < fenn> i thought you said you made computer software and they give you money in return
22:49 < xp_prg> yes for my job
22:49 < fenn> kanzure: the grocery store never called back :(
22:49 < xp_prg> I helped kanzure with software and he liked it :>
22:50 < kanzure> you were the most terrible programmer ever
22:50 < kanzure> what are you talking about
22:50 < xp_prg> well you put it in your repository!
22:50 < kanzure> where?
22:50 < xp_prg> I don't know you said you did
22:50 < fenn> xp_prg: ok so people give you money because you satisfy some kind of job requirements, is this correct?
22:50 < xp_prg> yes
22:50 < kanzure> do you negotiate those requirements upfront?
22:50 < fenn> xp_prg: what are the job requirements?
22:51 < xp_prg> to implement user requirements in software on time, on budget, and within performance/quality metrics
22:52 < fenn> ok 'on budget' is clearly fluff since you're getting paid
22:53 < fenn> 'on time' is probably the only realistically quantifiable variable
22:53 < fenn> so i think there's more to it than just getting the job done on time
22:56 < xp_prg> that is all it is
22:56 < xp_prg> fenn what do you do for money?
22:56 < fenn> xp_prg: what do you do in order to get an interview?
22:57 < fenn> xp_prg: nobody will give me any money, it's the damnedest thing
22:57 < fenn> i can sing and dance and jump through flaming hoops but i guess it doesn't matter
22:58 < xp_prg> well you have to show confidence, get your resume out there and stuff
22:59 < fenn> how many different applications would you say it takes before you land a job?
22:59 < fenn> wait, how many applications before you get an interview
22:59 < xp_prg> fenn do you love software development?
22:59 < xp_prg> does it show?
22:59 < fenn> well.. i do it in my copious spare time
22:59 < xp_prg> do you do side projects just for fun and for free?
23:00 < fenn> yes
23:00 < xp_prg> do you have a computer science degree?
23:00 < fenn> no
23:00 < xp_prg> ok just get one of those first, and also a masters will help
23:00 < fenn> do people really consider that?
23:00 < xp_prg> it seems they do in my life
23:01 < fenn> do you have a computer science degree?
23:03 < xp_prg> yes and 2 masters
23:03 < fenn> 2 masters degrees? what ever for?
23:03 < xp_prg> cuz they were free
23:04 < xp_prg> and it helps my career
23:04 < fenn> hm. state sponsored schooling?
23:05 < fenn> is there like some kind of test you can take and you get to skip all the intro bullshit classes?
23:05 < xp_prg> yes you can clep out
23:05 < xp_prg> I recommend getting certifications for 100.00 and sylvan learning test centers
23:05 < xp_prg> that will jump start your career fast
23:06 < xp_prg> help people all irc channels with programming problems gtoo
23:06 < xp_prg> dress seductively in interviews
23:06 < fenn> um. seductively eh
23:07 < xp_prg> do you know how to look sexy to someone?
23:07 < fenn> do they teach that in school?
23:07 < xp_prg> no
23:07 < xp_prg> you have to learn that on your own
23:08 < xp_prg> practice with kanzure
23:08 < fenn> oh god no
23:08 < fenn> sorry kanzure
23:09 < fenn> man this is all such a scam
23:09 < fenn> a multi trillion dollar a year scam
23:10 < xp_prg> fenn where do you live?
23:10 < fenn> austin, tx right now
23:10 < xp_prg> ok move to CA silicon valley immediately
23:11 < xp_prg> Only two things exist in Texas
23:11 < xp_prg> one of them gets along in CA well
23:11 < fenn> steers?
23:12 < fenn> xp_prg: how many hours a week do you work? and what percentage of that goes toward paying rent and taxes (such as car insurance)
23:13 < xp_prg> alot
23:13 < xp_prg> queers
23:13 < fenn> ok how much goes to just rent
23:13 < xp_prg> alot
23:13 < fenn> percent, ballpark figure
23:14 < xp_prg> after taxes like 20%
23:14 < fenn> i'm asking this because if i have to pay the same amount for rent as someone with 2 masters degrees, it may not even be possible
23:15 < fenn> oh, 20% is not bad
23:16 < fenn> so, in CA where queers are plentiful, for a male to dress 'seductively' at an interview is a significant factor?
23:16 < xp_prg> the other approach is to marry into wealth
23:16 < xp_prg> yes very
23:17 < fenn> sometimes i wish i were queer, at least it would be an excuse
23:18 < fenn> there's no "fenn-pride" movement you know
23:19 < xp_prg> fenn how old are you?
23:19 < fenn> so the world just hates me for no particular reason
23:19 < fenn> as of saturday i am 27
23:19 < xp_prg> happy birthday man!
23:19 < xp_prg> are you of an ethnic origin?
23:20 < fenn> people accuse me of being jewish on occasion
23:20 < fenn> i think i'm mostly english by blood
23:20 < xp_prg> ok
23:20 < xp_prg> well get out of 
23:20 < xp_prg> Texas in a hurry
23:20 < fenn> hm.
23:21 < fenn> i have a hard time seeing how this would work
23:22 < fenn> thanks for your support and for answering most of my questions
23:22 < fenn> oh, you never answered the important one: how many applications until you get an interview
23:23 < xp_prg> 100
23:24 < fenn> seriously
23:24 < xp_prg> yes
23:25 < fenn> well ok, how many interviews before you land a job?
23:25 < xp_prg> 1
23:25 < fenn> do you use automated thingies like monster.com?
23:26 < xp_prg> sometimes, use everything and anything
23:26 < xp_prg> use your seductive qualities and charms