--- Day changed Fri May 15 2009 01:30 < fenn> "The population increases, the wilderness decreases. Already people propose to put glittering solar power collectors all over perfectly good deserts, instead of in orbit, as God intended." 01:30 < fenn> amen 01:31 < fenn> i'm surprised i dont have this book by pournelle 01:41 < any36007168> err, if the collectors are in orbit, won't people be saying the microwave antennas on earth, in the perfectly good deserts, irradiating all god's critters, is also bad? 01:43 < fenn> no because most of the power will be used in orbit anyway 01:43 < fenn> the actual size of the antenna is not that big in the grand scheme of things 01:44 < fenn> compared to what would be needed for the same area covered with solar collectors 01:44 < fenn> erm, same power output of solar collectors 01:44 < any36007168> but the power hitting the ground from the space collector is larger than the sunlight hitting the ground 01:44 < any36007168> it's also likely more bioactive 01:45 < fenn> why do you say that? 01:45 < any36007168> microwaves 01:45 < fenn> are you made up of microwave antennae? 01:45 < any36007168> leaves block sunshine and offer shade, microwaves will go thru the leaves and enter the aminals under 01:46 < any36007168> no, but neither is the lasagna in the nukebox atm 01:46 < fenn> keep in mind the frequency would be tuned for minimal absorption by water, since there's so much water vapor in the atmosphere already 01:46 < fenn> the antenna grid would 'block' the microwaves and cause 'shade' underneath 01:46 < fenn> or it's not a very good antenna 01:47 < any36007168> and if it is that good, someone will surely complain the birds cannot fly thru it 01:47 < any36007168> or they get fried sitting on it 01:47 < fenn> anyway all this was thoroughly thrashed back in the 70's so i suggest looking at old arguments if you really care 01:47 < any36007168> i don't, i say install thermal solar 01:47 < fenn> and cover all those perfectly good deserts?? 01:48 < any36007168> put a ring around cities in the south, especially near theocean, and use sea water to cool the system, making fresh water as a byproduct 01:48 < fenn> uh, what? 01:48 < fenn> how is that even remotely related to thermal solar? 01:48 < any36007168> there's enough power plants near cities now, just feed them 900F oil during the day to make power with 01:49 < any36007168> thermal solar, gets hot, the cold side needs cooling, the "waste" heat can evaporate water, condenced water is unsalty 01:49 < fenn> ok 01:49 < fenn> why a ring around the city? 01:50 < any36007168> Alabama, Fla, and Ga are fighting for river water already, and last yr all 3 has water rationing 01:50 < fenn> that's because they dump most of it on the ground 01:50 < fenn> anyway, one problem at a time 01:51 < any36007168> a ring saves distribution costs and could coincide with some plans to make more superloop interstates around the cities 01:51 < any36007168> there's 3 coal fired power plants around Bham, a ring intersecting them could convert them to hybrid plants 01:53 < fenn> solar power doesn't need transporation infrastructure nearby 01:53 < any36007168> a ring around Atl would hit Norcross, Roswell, Marietta, Douglasville, all big electricity users 01:53 < fenn> neither does electricity distribution 01:53 < any36007168> i know it doesn't, but Bham and Atl both have been tlaking about larger loops of interstates away from the cities themselves 01:54 < fenn> damn i had this great image of the area of solar collectors needed to power the US, superimposed on the map of the US 01:54 < any36007168> well, electricity distribution is suffering some, it seems, else there wouldn't be money in the fed budget for building more electricical grids 01:55 < any36007168> that's another thing, if you put all the solar collectors in NM, one storm could kill the entire output 01:55 < fenn> sure, more mcmansions have been built in the last 20 years than the previous century combined 01:55 < any36007168> so spreading them out makes some sense 01:55 < fenn> diversification of energy sources makes more sense 01:56 < any36007168> ok 01:56 < fenn> i mean at least it'll be windy during a nuclear winter :P 01:56 < any36007168> question: does wind ever pay for itself at the multimegawatt levels they instal windmills at now? 01:56 < fenn> depends what you mean 'pay for itself' 01:57 < fenn> it certainly doesn't cost more to build the windmill than the energy it generates is worth 01:57 < any36007168> generate enough electricity at wholesale rates to cover the installation and capital costs, and maintenance 01:57 < any36007168> $millions for one tower that's 2 megawatts peak? 01:58 < fenn> coal isnt free either 01:58 < any36007168> umm,, did someone say it waS? 01:58 < fenn> there's a tradeoff, windmills are more up front 01:59 < any36007168> but you say there's proof somewhere they do pay for themselves? 01:59 < fenn> coal or natural gas costs money every MWh 01:59 < fenn> no, i bet the numbers are really confused due to all the various subsidies to both types of power generation 01:59 < any36007168> T Boone Pickens halted his plans for a huge wind farm last yr 01:59 < fenn> i'm sure windmills are more subsidised but still, if there were no other option it wouldn't be all that bad 02:00 < fenn> and the way we make windmills currently is stupid 02:00 < any36007168> yeas, we basicallyimport them 02:00 < fenn> see all the various kite proposals for instance 02:13 < fenn> http://imagebin.org/49129 02:14 < fenn> previously mentioned "area superimposed on map" diagram 02:14 < fenn> image from http://www.coolearthsolar.com/CoolEarth_SP2006.pdf 02:15 < fenn> i think those guys have a pretty good design btw 02:17 < fenn> there was another collector design which was just a giant sphere with a plane of mylar through it 02:17 < fenn> a pressure differential caused the mylar to curve 02:18 < any36007168> has the mylar been tested? i tried it here on earth, so did DOE, and it failed both of us 02:19 < any36007168> err, re: http://imagebin.org/49129 ; lets not generate 100% of the entire earth's power 02:20 < any36007168> what does bother me a lot, is the air pollution is increasing at a rate making terrestrial solar power real iffy 02:22 < fenn> on earth? 02:22 < any36007168> yeas? 02:22 < fenn> it costs too much to launch solar collectors so the idea is to mine aluminum from the moon 02:22 < fenn> then you have big arrays of aluminum foil 02:23 < fenn> these focus on silicon collectors 02:23 < any36007168> silicon can overheat badly in space, unles you found a great heat radiator for them? 02:23 < any36007168> afaik, the space station has no focussing solar arrays 02:24 < any36007168> woah, : In a report Wednesday, the Paris-based International Energy Agency estimates new electronic gadgets will triple their energy consumption by 2030 to 1,700 terawatt hours, the equivalent of today's home electricity consumption of the United States and Japan combined. 02:24 < any36007168> The world would have to build around 200 new nuclear power plants just to power all the TVs, iPods, PCs and other home electronics expected to be plugged in by 2030 02:25 < any36007168> sounds like someone needs to check their math 02:25 < any36007168> From: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/GlobalWarming/print?id=7576544 02:26 < genehacker> don't you mean build solar cells on the moon and mass driver them to earth 02:27 < genehacker> I think high altitude windpower might be the answer 02:27 < any36007168> the jet stream wanders too much to harness 02:27 < genehacker> but when you get it 02:28 < genehacker> you can get as much as a decent coal plant 02:28 < genehacker> in less area than a decent coal plant, if you you just consider the wind turbine 02:28 < genehacker> or let me go check those calculations again 02:29 < genehacker> http://bolonkin.narod.ru/Article_Wind_Energy_English.htm 02:32 < genehacker> High speed air Darreus rotor at an altitude 1 km (fig.4) 02:32 < genehacker> Let us consider a rotor having the diameter of 100 m, a length of 200 m (work area is 20,000 sq.m). When the wind speed at an altitude H=10 m is V =6 m/s, then at an altitude H = 1000 m it is 13 m/s. The full wind power is 13,46 MW. Let us take the efficiency coefficient 0.35, then the power of the Installation will be N = 4.7 MW. The change of power from wind speed is: V = 5 m/s, N =... 02:32 < genehacker> ...2.73 MW; V = 6 m/s, N = 4.7 MW; V = 7 m/s, N = 7.5 MW; V = 8 m/s, N = 11.4 MW; V = 9m/s, N = 15.9 MW; V = 10 m/s, N = 21.8 MW. 02:32 < genehacker> At an altitude of H = 13 km with an air density 0.267 and wind speed V = 40 m/s, the given installation will produce power N = 300 MW. 02:33 < any36007168> 300MW is a small coal plant 02:33 < genehacker> 300 MW is about how much a decent coal plant 02:33 < genehacker> or a large one 02:33 < genehacker> I forgot 02:33 < any36007168> decently to small 02:34 < any36007168> large is 750MW and up 02:34 < genehacker> oh 02:34 < kanzure> what have I missed? 02:34 < genehacker> well still 300 MW of wind power 02:34 < genehacker> hey what was that video you sent me the other day? 02:35 < any36007168> at the price of a 13km ! 02:35 < any36007168> tower 02:35 < genehacker> yeah about that 02:35 < genehacker> the author of this paper has a couple designs for towers to space 02:36 < any36007168> 2 BIG problems with http://www.coolearthsolar.com/technology , 1) at 200 suns, the solar cell won;t last, 2) in sunlight the plastic balloon it's in won't last even one summer 02:36 < genehacker> some of which don't need carbon nanotubes 02:36 < genehacker> well it is being cooled 02:37 < any36007168> i tried a solar reflector using mylar rated for green houses, it was powdered before summer was ended 02:37 < genehacker> what was powder? 02:37 < any36007168> ingredients 02:37 < genehacker> how did it powder? 02:38 < any36007168> the UV in sunlight 02:38 < genehacker> you can get more UV resistant film 02:38 < any36007168> it didn't get hot till it was powdering, it powdered first from the UV before heat temperatures rose 02:39 < genehacker> what do you mean powdered? 02:39 < any36007168> this was supposed to be worth 2 yrs in full sunlight 02:39 < genehacker> explain what happened to the mylar 02:39 < any36007168> powdered: converted from stable film to blow-in-the-breeze-talc-looking-stuff 02:40 < genehacker> was this clear mylar? 02:40 < genehacker> was it outdoor rated mylar? 02:40 < any36007168> clear with reflective al backing 02:40 < any36007168> outdoor and green\house rated 02:41 < any36007168> said to last 2 yrs, or forever indoors 02:41 < genehacker> perhaps try putting the aluminium coated side so it's the only one exposed in the sun 02:41 < genehacker> yeah indoors 02:41 < any36007168> said to last 2 yrs, or forever indoors 02:41 < any36007168> it did not last even one summer 02:41 < genehacker> indoors? 02:42 < any36007168> outdoors where it was good for 2 yrs 02:42 < any36007168> damn, look at the facts i listed for you repeatedly 02:42 < genehacker> perhaps you should try the stuff they want to use for inflatable space structures 02:42 < genehacker> oh 02:42 < any36007168> DOE had no better luck than i did 02:43 < genehacker> course I think some of the space stuff uses exotic UV cure plastics 02:43 < fenn> regular polyethylene film will self destruct in sunlight in about 2 months 02:44 < genehacker> hmmm... so that's what happened to my balloon 02:44 < fenn> there are additives (hindered amine light stabilizers) you can use to prevent the reaction from spreading 02:44 < fenn> you can also add UV-absorbing dyes, but then you lose that energy 02:45 < genehacker> built a solar powered balloon, did some tests on it, wind picked up, and now it could be in China for all I care 02:45 < fenn> there are also other materials like tefzel which simply dont degrade in sunlight 02:45 < genehacker> what about graphene? 02:45 < fenn> but they're 400x more expensive (migt not matter in the long run though) 02:45 < genehacker> sure that doesn't degrade in sunlight 02:45 < fenn> graphene is science fiction at this point 02:46 < fenn> 400x was referring to tefzel 02:46 < fenn> vs polyethylene 02:46 < genehacker> well some people down here made a centimeter sized patch of the stuff 02:46 < fenn> good for them 02:46 < fenn> i have no idea what the bulk properties of graphene are like 02:46 < genehacker> I want bigger patches though... 02:46 < fenn> but it really sounds stupid to try to use it for a balloon 02:46 < genehacker> stupid? 02:47 < fenn> just because you can 02:47 < genehacker> it's really really really strong and really really light 02:47 < fenn> is it really really really cheap and flexible and transparent and self cleaning and UV resistant? 02:47 < fenn> and "environmentally friendly" 02:48 < genehacker> no, why? 02:48 < fenn> because those are the imporant properties when you're making vast solar collector arrays 02:48 < genehacker> why flexible? 02:48 < fenn> because 02:49 < genehacker> electrospun something something woven semiconductor nanofibers? 02:50 < fenn> why dont you go learn about real engineering 02:51 < genehacker> doing that 02:52 < nsh> http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/05/ribonucleotides/ 02:52 < nsh> RNA abiogenesis achieved 02:52 < genehacker> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TXF-4DXBTFM-4&_user=108429&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000059713&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=108429&md5=f599c457b63910c26801206c8ed9bce9 02:52 < genehacker> yeah heard about that 02:53 < fenn> i really doubt RNA was the first replicating molcule 02:53 < kanzure> ellington does too. 02:54 < genehacker> hey can you make biosensors with aptamers? 02:54 < kanzure> uh, hell yes? 02:54 < nsh> it occurs to me that it's probably a case of descent in scale 02:54 < fenn> how do you select for specificity? 02:55 < kanzure> light 02:55 < nsh> alternatively stated: increase in informational compression 02:55 < kanzure> conformational changes associated with a rhodopsin protein 02:55 < genehacker> so I want to test for anthrax 02:55 < fenn> i mean specific vs broad attachment 02:55 < kanzure> what? 02:55 < kanzure> specific versus broad ? 02:55 < nsh> there were replicating macrosystems before the first replicating molecular system 02:55 < fenn> say you have a sensor that detects only one chemical vs one tat detects a family of chemicals 02:55 < kanzure> okay? 02:56 < genehacker> I want something that can sense if there are deadly neurotoxins, and a whole bunch of things and fits in my backpack 02:56 < fenn> well as i understand it, aptamers are found by selecting for attachment to a substrate 02:56 < kanzure> but yeah, there are tons of papers about ellington and biosensors with aptamers 02:56 < fenn> so you're only selecting for broad affinity 02:56 < kanzure> no, it can do sub-family discrimination 02:57 < genehacker> so I could have known what caused the chemistry building to be evacuated the other day 02:57 < kanzure> mustard gas is the typical excuse. 02:57 < fenn> genehacker: why dont you just ask? 02:57 < kanzure> fenn, where did you find that lipson paper? 02:58 < fenn> my dad sent it after i told him about a-design 02:58 < kanzure> why can't *my* dad send me cool papers 02:58 < genehacker> because wouldn't it be awesome to have a biosensor that could detect anthrax or swine flu or stuff like that 02:58 * fenn mumbles something about ouija boards 02:59 < kanzure> genehacker: ellington has got it down to a science. to the point where he's so completely bored out of his mind of biosensors. 02:59 < kanzure> fenn: so, I still have a few functions to read through in the code 02:59 < kanzure> a few months ago I was talking about an idea of having differetn nodes in a graph of a design as "terminators" 03:00 < genehacker> really can he make a biosensor that can be exposed to air for months without being exposed to the thing that I'm looking for and still work 03:00 < kanzure> where thesse "terminators" are like "typing up the loose ends" in a design 03:00 < kanzure> the "loose ends" are in the sense of whether or not the design passes dimensional analysis without failure 03:00 < kanzure> in a-design, it can be broadly said that there are "terminators" and "correlators" 03:00 < kanzure> a correlator is not a frontier node on the graph of the design. 03:01 < kanzure> a correlator says something about the relation of one variable on one of its ports/interfaces to another port/interface 03:01 < kanzure> and thus how that variable propogates from one part to the next in an overall design. 03:01 < fenn> um, nodes/edges anyone? 03:01 < genehacker> cool 03:01 < kanzure> what? I said nodes and edges 03:01 < genehacker> I don't understand any of it 03:02 < fenn> as far as i can see you're reinventing graph theory with new buzzwords 03:02 -!- any36007168 is now known as katsmeow 03:02 < kanzure> ok, which previous-older-buzzwords should I be using? 03:02 < fenn> is node and edge not what you mean? 03:02 < genehacker> I haven't slept very much so I'm AFK 03:02 < kanzure> I'm trying to distinguish between two different types of nodes in a graph-design-thingy 03:03 < fenn> god les is playing this awful ipod SDK tutorial video and i can't think straight 03:03 < kanzure> "hi, I'm a mac SDK tutorial." 03:03 < kanzure> "hi, I'm a PC SDK tutorial" 03:03 < kanzure> anyway, the idea is that the component library/repository exists to provide the 'terminators' in a graph 03:03 < fenn> "hi, I'm Linux. RTFM" 03:04 < kanzure> and of course also the 'correlators' 03:04 < kanzure> (since they are both nodes/parts/components obviously) 03:04 < kanzure> I like calling it "tying up the loose ends" 03:05 < kanzure> it's like keeping track of which physical units you still need to take care of, or something 03:05 < kanzure> once all loose ends are tied up, the design is 'complete'. 03:06 < fenn> this is for just electromechanical systems? 03:06 < fenn> like springs and motors and stuff? 03:06 < fenn> i mean, you can construct arbitrarily complex logical systems 03:07 < kanzure> I think it would work for hydraulics and the other domains that were included in a-design 03:07 < kanzure> although I don't know why he had it constrained to domains .. 03:07 < kanzure> the domains shouldn't matter .. just match units. 03:08 < fenn> ok just making sure you arent getting into protocol design or something 03:08 < fenn> example 03:09 < fenn> .. an example would be helpful 03:09 < kanzure> er, I have a diagram, but it's not as helpful as you think 03:09 < fenn> can you provide any evidence this isn't purely theoretical masturbation? 03:09 < fenn> why aren't dimensional units good enough? 03:10 < kanzure> oh, but I think dimensional units are good enough 03:10 < kanzure> er, the code in question or code of interest is .. /me digs up the lines 03:10 < fenn> campbell determined whether the system was complete by whether there were any unbounded variables 03:11 < fenn> you can bound a variable by connecting it to some other component or to ground 03:11 < kanzure> line 245 in update.lisp 03:11 < fenn> s/it/the component it references/ 03:11 < fenn> one moment 03:11 < kanzure> what I call "terminators" provide that boundedness 03:11 < kanzure> which are given in the component library by the components. 03:12 < fenn> weird 03:12 < fenn> .update.lisp.swp cannot be used on this computer. 03:12 < fenn> The file was created on ubuntu, or the file has been damaged. 03:12 < kanzure> "correlators" string correlators together so that "terminators" that actually have "seemingly incompatible" (but obviously ultimately not incompatible) 03:13 < kanzure> seemingly incompatible units, can be made to solve a design to completion. 03:13 < kanzure> the correlators are the "i, r, d" list thingy in update.lisp or Embodiments.lisp (probably the second one) 03:13 < fenn> so correlators are the equations and terminators are the values 03:14 < kanzure> nah, correlators are in the component library too .. which have various parametric parameters stuffs 03:14 < fenn> i'm sorry but looking at lisp just isnt going to help me understand 03:14 < kanzure> terminators just provide that final 'boundedness' which is qualitative 03:15 < kanzure> the 'boudedness' stuff is always qualitative in a-design, it's a tag 03:16 < fenn> eh i guess 03:16 < fenn> 1/0 is clearly unbounded 03:16 < fenn> force on an unconstrained mass, well, that's more open to interpretation 03:17 < fenn> i mean, moving the mass might be the whole point of the syste 03:17 < kanzure> in the weighing machine example, campbell had a 'goal range' on the foot pad of 0 to 300 lbs. 03:17 < kanzure> (the foot pad was the 'source' and primary input element of that particular system) 03:18 < fenn> what do i r and d stand for? 03:18 < kanzure> d is differentiator 03:18 < kanzure> i is integrator 03:18 < fenn> r is .. proportional? 03:18 < kanzure> r is something that doesn't start with r 03:18 < kanzure> um. 03:18 < fenn> that still doesnt explain anything 03:19 < kanzure> it does if you stare at a few key pieces of information 03:19 < kanzure> (1) Embodiments.lisp the line with (2 4 6) and so on; this expresses a dependency between ports 2, 4, and 6 -- and at the end of that line you will see a "c" IIRC (as opposed to r, d, or i) 03:20 < kanzure> (2) in update.lisp, update-through-across and the function that it calls (the one that is named somewhat similarly but with a -terms in the name) 03:20 < kanzure> (3) In Embodiments.lisp, the lines that look like this: ((a b) c d x), which appear after the area with thingies that match #1. 03:20 < kanzure> somehow these string together so that it makes sense. 03:21 < kanzure> (it especially helps with the commented version if you happened to grab it) 03:22 < fenn> for a bearings (2 4 6) == inner diameter, outer diameter, b ?? 03:22 < kanzure> aha 03:22 < kanzure> r = dissipator 03:22 < kanzure> do you have Embodiments.2009.* ? 03:23 < fenn> no 03:23 < kanzure> for the rotational bearing in the Embodiments file, 03:23 < kanzure> ; (2 4 6) <- dependencies on other variables which correspond to the parameters passed to lambda (2 = v1, 4 = f, 6 = v2) 03:24 < fenn> i think you should explain this to me tomorrow 03:25 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Embodiments.2009.05.13.lisp 03:25 < kanzure> okay. 03:57 < ybit> kanzure, and really anyone, what's your method for discovering new research papers? 03:58 < ybit> i've thought about building a scraper to search to keep an eye on certain keywords in all DBs that i have acess to, and a few others which i don't. 03:58 < ybit> -"to search" 08:58 < bkero> You guys should come to oregon. 08:58 < bkero> I've prepared waffles. 14:35 < kanzure> ybit: most people monitor RSS feeds or something of particular journals. 14:39 < UtopiahGHML> and journals start to have RSS feeds too, which is prety helpful 14:41 < kanzure> ybit: my main method of the discovery of new, interesting papers is having friends who read interesting papers that they send to me 16:25 < fenn> mmm waffles 16:36 < kanzure-> fenn: in the future, would you be willing to rename the pdf files you upload to attempt to be more descriptive 16:42 < fenn> would 'symbolic regression' be better? 16:42 < fenn> at the time i uploaded, i hadnt actually read the paper 16:43 < fenn> so you can see how it might be difficult to come up with a name 16:43 < fenn> i should be riding my bike to the lab soon 16:53 < kanzure-> yes. 16:54 < kanzure-> er, yes you should be riding 16:54 < kanzure-> symbolic regression is vague. nevermind about the renaming if you haven't read it. 16:54 < kanzure-> although over time it gets hard to manage folders of files with random names like "39491.pdf" and "141411-SCIENCE.pdf" which is what you get when you straight-up download papers these days. 17:04 < fenn> ok see you in 40 mins 17:47 -!- any80629391 is now known as katsmeow 18:17 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk 18:21 < ybit> and don't forget the sciencedirect naming convention 'article.pdf' 18:59 < faceface> I wish MediaWiki had a decent 'end-note' style plugin for papers 18:59 < faceface> its citation management is lame 19:06 < nsh> sofixit? 19:17 < faceface> yup 19:17 < faceface> do you like Philip Glass? 19:18 < faceface> oh wait, I know that 19:18 < faceface> where was that Koyaanisqatsi link 19:18 < faceface> ? 20:59 < fenn> kanzure-: i won't be at sata's; campbell requested i talk with him at around 4:10 21:00 < fenn> faceface: google video i believe 21:01 * fenn twiddles his thumbs and eats a cookie 21:06 < fenn> hi genehacker 21:06 < fenn> what are you up to today? 21:06 < genehacker> hello 21:06 < genehacker> why? 21:06 < genehacker> if it involves anything fun, then no 21:06 < fenn> hah 21:06 < genehacker> I have to study for a final tomorrow 21:06 < fenn> just curious.. i'm on campus 21:07 < genehacker> what are you doing? 21:07 < fenn> about to go in for a dreadful interview with campbell 21:07 < genehacker> oh 21:07 < genehacker> where are you? 21:07 < fenn> adl 21:08 < fenn> ok i shouldnt keep the man waiting 21:08 < genehacker> I might be around the engineering library after 7 21:08 < fenn> ok i will ping you if i'm still here 21:08 * fenn departs 21:31 < fenn> well that was nice 21:34 < genehacker> nice as in for real? --- Log closed Fri May 15 21:53:58 2009 --- Log opened Wed Dec 24 15:05:38 2008 15:05 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit [] 15:25 -!- gene_ [n=chatzill@pool-71-164-238-185.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:25 < gene_> well another thing is that the wireless internet at my house uses a long encryption key that is rather hard to transfer 15:27 < clonedgene> well I'm about to have a go at it 15:30 -!- gene_ [n=chatzill@pool-71-164-238-185.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 15:35 < clonedgene> checking disk for integrity 15:37 < clonedgene> disk is ok 15:39 < clonedgene> installation is go 15:43 -!- gene [n=chatzill@pool-71-164-238-185.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:44 < clonedgene> oh shoot forgot to backup 15:49 < kanzure_> .. 15:50 < kanzure_> so, I totally forgot that the conventional stove is spiraled. 15:50 < clonedgene> ??? 15:50 < clonedgene> the conventional stove? 16:03 < clonedgene> btw kanzure know any good automatic backup applications 16:09 < kanzure_> in linux, you can do rsync on a cron entry 16:09 < kanzure_> apt-cache search backup 17:18 < kanzure_> does anybody know the IP of my lab machine? 18:00 < clonedgene> yeah 127.0.0.1 18:12 < clonedgene> check the logs 18:26 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@ip-194-50-167-184.mir.dn.ua] has left #hplusroadmap ["Kopete 0.12.4 : http://kopete.kde.org"] 18:44 < kanzure_> clonedgene: why would 127.0.0.1 be the external IP address. 18:44 < kanzure_> isn't that a sort of stupid thing to say? 18:45 < kanzure_> http://demo.cs.brandeis.edu/golem/ 18:45 < kanzure_> ^ is hod's work 18:46 < kanzure_> "In the Golem project (Genetically Organized Lifelike Electro Mechanics) " ... <- ouch. 18:46 < kanzure_> Ah neat, it has a download. 19:46 < clonedgene> it's a joke kanzure 19:47 * kanzure_ activatesssss artififical laughter box 19:47 < clonedgene> you said you have access to the mostly unused ME supercomputer right? 19:47 < kanzure_> theoretically. I don't have the 'keys' yet. 19:48 < kanzure_> actually it's more like a cluster 19:48 < clonedgene> we should run golem on it 19:48 < clonedgene> and then print off a couple robots 20:25 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9CA81.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:33 < kanzure_> just clicking around on instructables, 22:33 < kanzure_> http://www.instructables.com/id/SFBG7VGF54HJ7TI/ 22:34 < kanzure_> seriously though. "ok, good luck finding components that match this general look." 22:44 < kanzure_> http://www.cookingforengineers.com/recipe/26/Simple-Tiramisu <-- heh, at the bottom, near "Copyright Michael Chu 2004". Interesting diagram. 22:45 < kanzure_> http://reml.sourceforge.net/ recipe exchange markup language 22:47 -!- willPow3r_ [n=will@cpe-67-49-240-214.dc.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:47 < kanzure_> http://microformats.org/wiki/recipe-formats 22:49 < kanzure_> http://web.archive.org/web/20070112225127/http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html computerized cooking, RXOL. "in postfix" 22:50 < kanzure_> "Its grammar is the grammar of cooking itself. It uses postfix, or "Reverse Polish," notation to describe recipes exactly as logicians use it to describe inferences or computer scientists use it to describe computations." 22:52 < kanzure_> "Is cooking fun? 22:52 < kanzure_> Those who have savored the joy of sitting down to a meal they have prepared, whose adrenaline has surged at the challenge of mastering a complex menu in time for a deadline, whose soul has relaxed at the gentle rhythms of kneading bread or chopping onions, will hesitate before answering "No."" 23:06 < clonedgene> What do you mean cooking isn't fun? 23:07 < kanzure_> Huh? Where does it say that? 23:07 < kanzure_> see the email to om under 'recipe representation' 23:07 < kanzure_> for the full quote 23:07 < clonedgene> no 23:08 < kanzure_> "I hate the usual recipe format, and can only work from recipes written in Reverse Polish Notation, which allows them to be processed by computers." 23:08 < clonedgene> just finished much of the cooking process for creme brulees 23:08 < clonedgene> oh damn 23:09 < clonedgene> http://www.cookingforengineers.com/recipe/32/Creme-Brulee-Cregraveme-Brucircleacutee 23:09 < drazak> clonedgene: that is the best recepie site EVER 23:09 < clonedgene> guess this isn't really cooking for engineers then 23:09 < clonedgene> indeed it is 23:10 < kanzure_> dmundie@sei.cmu.edu 23:10 < kanzure_> rawr 23:10 * kanzure_ stalks 23:11 < clonedgene> what's with the email address 23:13 < drazak> I have to email some dude about getting time in his orgsynth lab 23:16 < kanzure_> http://web.archive.org/web/20070110221005/http://www.anthus.com/index.html 23:16 < kanzure_> http://web.archive.org/web/20070222062032/www.anthus.com/Recipes/Sampler.html standardized recipe sampler 23:18 < kanzure_> http://web.archive.org/web/20070222062126/www.anthus.com/Literature/Quotes.html heh, a huge quotes file. 23:18 < kanzure_> 23:18 < kanzure_> You are born in pain; you live in fear; you die alone: Merry Christmas. - Old Scottish Christmas greeting. 23:23 < kanzure_> "A critical examination of almost any popular cookbook will reveal an endless supply of superfluous, insulting drivel that Shannon would characterize as having no information content." 23:23 < kanzure_> "Culinary equipment. Paradoxically, information on the proper utensils for a recipe is an intrusion on the recipe itself. The fact of the matter is that noodles cooked in a coffee pot taste just fine, that steak sautéed in a pressure cooker, and potatoes boiled in a frying pan, and omelettes made in a wok, and cake baked in a souflé dish, etc., etc., are virtually indistinguishable from their more usual equivalents. The choice of equipment is largely a matter of common sense and the material at hand. A cook who, reading "sauté the onion in butter," needs to be told to do it in a frypan, needs a general education, not a more verbose recipe." 23:41 < clonedgene> kanzure you should tell him about molecular gastronomy, the science of food 23:45 < clonedgene> some molecular gastronomists recommend exposing your food to vacuum in the cooking process 23:46 < clonedgene> or to cook your food in vacuum 23:47 < clonedgene> I think that food should be sonicated to bring out the flavor 23:52 -!- willPower__ [n=will@cpe-67-49-240-214.dc.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:54 -!- willPow3r_ [n=will@cpe-67-49-240-214.dc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55 -!- gene [n=chatzill@pool-71-164-238-185.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap