--- Day changed Tue May 26 2009
00:00 < genehacker> just a funny thing I saw online
00:00 < genehacker> convince someone to delete system32
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02:09 < fenn> paul really wrote 15 messages to OM today?
02:12 < genehacker> just posted my ez-DNA synth proposal to diybio
02:12 < genehacker> hopefully something useful will come of it
02:47 < fenn> budokai = martial arts society; tenkaichi = best under heaven
02:48 < fenn> literally: heaven below 1
02:49 < fenn> which would have been easy to figure out if it were written in japanese, btw
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04:25 < faceface> genehacker: good luck!
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09:53 < genehacker> downloadan opera
09:54 < genehacker> installing opera 
09:54 < genehacker> does opera every experience periodic flash failure like firefox does?
09:55 < genehacker> done
10:00 < genehacker> I love opera
10:01 < genehacker> well i am now hooked
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10:04 < genehacker> no extensions though
10:21 < kanzure> genehacker: configure it to make tabs on the left-hand side in a readable list instead of at the top
10:21 < kanzure> and then you're all set to go.
10:21 < kanzure> also, with a multi-monitor setup you can devote a monitor to bookmarks or something, since the bookmark manager is kind of spiffy
10:29 < nsh> trust kanz
10:29 < nsh> he knows bookmarking
10:36 < kanzure> Thermodynamic constraints on neural dimensions, firing rates, brain temperature and size
10:36 < kanzure> http://arxiv.org/abs/0905.3690
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10:53 < kanzure> cis-action: hey
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11:40 < kanzure> how close do you need to get two molecules before a chemical reaction occurs? isn't there some curve for different subatomic forces that are acting on molecules that describes how r is always in the denominator or something?
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12:25 < genehacker> kanzure mechanosynthesis?
12:25 < kanzure> ping
12:25 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/
12:26 < kanzure> does this work for anyone
12:26 < genehacker> it loaded 50 milliseconds longer than usual
12:26 < genehacker> it works
12:28 < genehacker> can I get some adblock stuff for opera?
12:28 < genehacker> btw how do browser companies make money?
12:29 < kanzure> opera sells itself to nintendo/wii/cellphones
12:29 < kanzure> there's no adblock for opera :(
12:31 < genehacker> oh
12:31 < genehacker> what about firefox
12:31 < genehacker> ?
12:31 < kanzure> it's free/open source software
12:31 < genehacker> they sell t-shirts I presume?
12:32 < kanzure> Mozilla, the foundation that primarily develops firefox, gets money from Google for putting them as the primary search 
12:32 < kanzure> yeah, they sell lots of crap too, but they are largely a non-profit
12:32 < kanzure> so they also work off of donations etc.
12:32 < genehacker> oh
12:32 < genehacker> so that's how
12:32 < genehacker> always wonder
12:32 < genehacker> ed
12:32 < kanzure> well people like me improve firefox for free
12:33 < kanzure> that's what's so great about open source .. people work on it, and then stuff happens
12:33 < genehacker> anyway I need a way to make phosphoramidite nucleosides
12:33 < kanzure> genehacker: you should read more papers from acs.org (american chemical society) about DNA synthesis so that you can get a feel for what the fuck the chemistry is all about
12:34 < genehacker> the papers say how to make the photolabile base things
12:34 < kanzure> there are possibly some simpler reactions for synthesizing DNA that are out there
12:34 < genehacker> here's the deal
12:34 < kanzure> usually the chemical reactions for just about anything are available somewhere via ACS :/
12:34 < xp_prg> genehacker I am excited by your idea
12:34 < xp_prg> !
12:34 < genehacker> phosphoramidite nucleosides cost a lot
12:34 < genehacker> do you know why?
12:34 < genehacker> they are really high purity
12:34 < genehacker> did you read my diybio post?
12:35 < kanzure> who are you asking
12:35 < xp_prg> yes I did genehacker
12:35 < genehacker> xp_prg
12:35 < genehacker> so now you understand my evil plan
12:35 < kanzure> ok
12:35 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/
12:35 < kanzure> it's back up
12:36 < genehacker> so I'd like to know how they get high purity stuff
12:36 < xp_prg> genehacker it sounds way cool!
12:36 < genehacker> from what I hear, they use chromatography
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12:37 < genehacker> it's cool and I believe would could make a DNA synthesizer, we just need to find a way to get the chemicals cheaply so it doesn't cost $100 each time we run it
12:38 < kanzure> genehacker: did you know that your email to diybio was so poorly formatted?
12:38 < genehacker> what?
12:38 < genehacker> how so?
12:39 < kanzure> it had line breaks after every other word
12:39 < kanzure> makes it kind of hard to read
12:39 < genehacker> well I did copy and paste from notepad
12:39 < kanzure> ah, that's why
12:39 < xp_prg> genehacker so you going to make it?
12:39 < kanzure> you need to enable wordwrapping or something
12:39 < kanzure> before you paste
12:39 < kanzure> er, disable wordwrapping I mean
12:40 < genehacker> WHOA
12:40 < genehacker> WTF happened?
12:41 < genehacker> it looked all nice when it posted it in there?
12:41 < kanzure> well it's because you had line breaks
12:41 < kanzure> when gmail sends out email, it splits it up into lines of 72 characters or something
12:42 < kanzure> but if you have a newline character after 72 characters, then the next line will just have "the stuff <new line here> that you want to .."
12:42 < genehacker> ok can I edit my post?
12:42 < kanzure> no
12:42 < kanzure> I suggest resending it
12:42 < genehacker> remove and repost?
12:42 < kanzure> there is no "remove"
12:43 < kanzure> you can try sending it to yourself first if you want to see how it will look
12:44 < genehacker> there is a remove
12:44 < kanzure> where
12:46 < genehacker> on options
12:46 < kanzure> the "report abuse" thing?
12:46 < kanzure> that's for spam.
12:46 < genehacker> no it's not
12:48 < genehacker> reposted
12:48 < genehacker> ugh
12:48 < genehacker> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/f44fa4989fa799ab
12:49 < genehacker> is that somewhat readable?
12:49 < genehacker> I emailed it to my self and it had spaces..
12:51 < xp_prg> genehacker you going to make this thing?
12:51 < genehacker> if I can get the chemicals to make it work
12:51 < genehacker> yes
12:52 < kanzure> I need to hop a bus.
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12:56 < ultraleibniz> gah. campbell!
12:56  * ultraleibniz sets everything up again.
13:04 < genehacker> is leibniz a computer?
13:04 < ultraleibniz> yes
13:04 < ultraleibniz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz
13:04 < genehacker> yeah I know]
13:04 < genehacker> I need to consider working for the ADL...
13:04 < ultraleibniz> it won't work out this summer
13:04 < ultraleibniz> he already hired all of the undergrads that he wants to
13:05 < genehacker> oh that's ok
13:05 < ultraleibniz> however, he was interested in your super microfluidic synthesize-the-shit-out-of-anything design
13:05 < genehacker> writing graph grammars for organic chemistry?
13:05 < ultraleibniz> yeah
13:05 < ultraleibniz> and also probably something involving a component library for the unit processes
13:05 < genehacker> I don't know that much about organic chemistry...
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13:06 < genehacker> heh make the chem e
13:06 < genehacker> s obsolete
13:06 < kanzure> did you see the retrosynthetic route designer paper thingy?
13:06 < ultraleibniz> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Route%20designer%20-%20a%20retrosynthetic%20analysis%20tool%20utilizing%20automated%20retrosynthetic%20rule%20generation.pdf
13:07 < kanzure> drazak_: can you find me any references on physical imprints of the size/shape of different nucleotides?
13:10 < kardan|> hi, whats a AFM cantilever?
13:11 < kardan|> (just read some pages back)
13:11 < kanzure> do you know what AFM is?
13:11 < kanzure> AFM is atomic force microscopy- one of the forms of analytical instrumentation-
13:12 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/instrumentation/instru.html
13:12 < kanzure> where you use a super-fine tipped needle to poke a surface
13:13 < kanzure> using a very flimsy reflective 'cantilever', or 'long rod looking thingy' you can detect how much the reflective film bends due to force on the super-fine tipped needle
13:13 < kanzure> you can detect this by using a laser shinning at the cantilever. based off of the angle of deflection, you can figure out how much force is being exerted on your tip.
13:13 < kanzure> you detect the angle of detection via (typically) a four-segmented photodiode
13:13 < kanzure> although there are some that use CMOS image sensors or whatever
13:15 < kanzure> er, angle of deflection (sorry)
13:15 < kardan|> thats what i am interested too
13:15 < kanzure> are you the one that doesn't speak english?
13:16 < kanzure> :p
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13:48 < bluekanzure> "username 'kanzure' is already registered on arxiv.org"
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15:20 < kanzure> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 3:00 PM, BillK <pharos@gmail.com> wrote:
15:20 < kanzure> > If you don't have all the legally required animal testing licenses,
15:20 < kanzure> > premises inspections, animal care permits, etc. then what you are
15:20 < kanzure> > doing is torturing animals for a hobby.
15:25 < Utopiah> watch out, in few days you might have hot celebrities from PETA pounding on your door...
15:26 < kanzure> do I get to bone them?
15:28 < Utopiah> only if you don't label that action "animal experiment"
15:28 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE3BD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:28 < Utopiah> (starting to sound a bit awkward)
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15:57 < kanzure> > But what value do you think such research will have?
15:57 < kanzure> > 'Here, take these pills. A friend of mine fed them to some rabbits in
15:57 < kanzure> > Indonesia and they seemed to be stronger than usual'.  Really???
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16:52 < genehacker> WOOHOO
16:53 < genehacker> I have a damn tiny water pump!
16:55 < kanzure> a tiny wong?
16:56 < genehacker> no
16:57 < genehacker> I'm making a shirt with a heat exchanger
16:58 < genehacker> I needed a pump that would be small yet powerful enough to drive coolant through ~15 feet of aquarium tubing so I don't have to be hot in the summer
16:58 < genehacker> So I found a $5 motorized water gun
16:59 < fenn_> where did you find that?
16:59 -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn
16:59 < genehacker> happens to have a fitting that fits the aquarium tubing, on one end...
16:59 < genehacker> Toys R Us
17:00 < genehacker> went all over town looking for something like that
17:00 < genehacker> hmmm...
17:00 < genehacker> wonder if that pumps strong enough to drive my flamethrower...
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17:02 < fenn> is it just me or are squirt guns steadily progressing towards 'covenant plasma rifle'? http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2305387w345.jpg
17:10 < genehacker> it is but just barely
17:10 < genehacker> it is strong enough but my flamethrower is a bit leakyier than anticipated
17:11 < genehacker> it is not just you
17:13 < genehacker> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LZFTY6/ref=s9_simx_gw_s0_p21_t2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=00K0WBGFZHZ3EJ70VN0R&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
17:13 < genehacker> http://halo3blogs.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/plasmarifle-halo.jpg
17:13 < fenn> the wikipedia article on water guns is pretty awesome
17:14 < genehacker> I'm document this stuff
17:14 < genehacker> I'm going to document this pump
17:15 < genehacker> a water gun that uses a peristaltic pump?
17:15 < genehacker> interesting
17:16 < fenn> it's only to be expected
17:16 < fenn> white tubing? about 1/8"?
17:16 < genehacker> 0.17 inch
17:17 < genehacker> also this watergun was not meant to be dissassembled
17:17 < genehacker> part of the plastic was ultrasonically welded
17:18 < fenn> try using a brazilian screwdriver
17:25 < genehacker> a crow bar?
17:25 < genehacker> I just use my bear hands
17:27 < fenn> i didnt know you were a raccoon
17:29 < fenn> this is much harder to make it work than it seems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin_(game)
17:30 < genehacker> article = dead
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17:36 < genehacker_> you're already registered in arxiv?'
17:36 < fenn> genehacker_: what article is dead?
17:36 < genehacker_> the assasin game
17:37 < fenn> copy and paste the link
17:38 < genehacker_> what is a brazilian screwdriver?
17:38 < genehacker_> a knife
17:40 < fenn> a hammer
17:40 < genehacker_> oh
17:40 < fenn> ... i think. i doubt anybody really knows
17:46 < fenn> how come texas doesnt have anything like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songkran
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17:53 < genehacker_> we do
17:53 < genehacker_> acouple months ago with water balloons and colored powder instead of chalk
17:54 < genehacker_> that was the indian students association thing though
17:54 < genehacker_> so I don't know really
17:54 < fenn> it's not hot here in april though
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17:54 < genehacker_> oops
17:54 < genehacker_> what did I do?
17:55 < fenn> you used a web browser
17:55 < genehacker_> no
17:55 < genehacker_> I hit one of the exit keys
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17:57 < fenn> genehacker_: do you know how to use ssh?
17:57 < genehacker_> no
17:58 < genehacker_> tell me
17:58 < genehacker_> hmmm
17:58 < genehacker_> pump is an impellor type
17:58 < fenn> er, well on a windows machine you'd download putty.exe
17:58 < genehacker_> ok
17:59 < fenn> nevermind, i'm just wondering why my mail server is rejecting ssh connections
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18:18 < drazak_> kanzure: what do you want me to look up?
18:21 < kanzure> drazak_: how to make a hole in which only a certain nucleotide can become stuck in
18:22 < drazak_> could you use part of the substrate section from a reverse transcriptase?
18:22 < kanzure> drazak_: just so I get things straight, your name is ben too?
18:22 < drazak_> yeah
18:23 < kanzure> why is this channel so heavily b-biased when it comes to letters of first names
18:23 < drazak_> b for brain
18:23 < kanzure> drazak_: possibly, if you could find one of those papers that studies the angstrom-scale structure via x-ray crystallography or something, it might be a start
18:23 < drazak_> yeah
18:23 < drazak_> stupid java application
18:24 < drazak_> won't let me alt tab ut of it
18:24 < kanzure> "help! I'm trapped in a java applet!" condolences.
18:24 < kanzure> yay for Austin Che
18:24 < kanzure> http://www-lecb.ncifcrf.gov/~toms/latex.html
18:25 < drazak_> wtf
18:25 < drazak_> isn't makedir the command to make a folder?
18:25  * drazak_ losing it
18:25 < kanzure> mkdir
18:25 < drazak_> thanks
18:25 < kanzure> now you must sacrifice the gods
18:25 < drazak_> I'm just trying to get music onto my fucking mp3 player
18:25 < drazak_> it's a bitch
18:25 < kanzure> *to the gods
18:26 < drazak_> it won't transfer by usb because it's half broken, so I have to plug the base into the network
18:26 < fenn> sounds like it needs an exorcism
18:27 < kanzure> apple be gone?
18:27 < fenn> the worm that ate the apple
18:27 < drazak_> it's a rio karma
18:28 < fenn> ah, well if it's karma then there's nothing we can do, since obviously you deserve it
18:28 < kanzure> fenn: re: lisp stuff, I've continued to just comment the living hell out of the file and it seems to be making me think I'm making progress
18:28 < kanzure> whether or not there actually is any progress only time will tell
18:28 < kanzure> er, debug-print-statement-style comments
18:28 < fenn> well, here's how you know if you have someting useful
18:29 < kanzure> if it works?
18:29 < fenn> if you can feed it data and it spits out te result of some calculation
18:29 < kanzure> right.
18:29 < fenn> for example, f(x) = x^2
18:29 -!- splicer [n=patrik@h177n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:30 < fenn> hullo there splicer
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18:30 < genehacker_> now where do I get 5/8 in diameter pipe?
18:30 < genehacker_> od of course
18:30 < splicer> hi fenn
18:31 < kanzure> the fact that you have to ask "where do I get this standard-sized part" tells you that something is wrong with the system
18:31 < fenn> ey i had this idea too (probably aroun te same time, must be te hylaean theoric wave front) http://www.ccrnp.ncifcrf.gov/~toms/patent/molecularrotationengine/
18:31 < genehacker_> yeah
18:31 < kanzure> is that the US obfuscation organization agency?
18:31 < drazak_> finally
18:31 < drazak_> got it transfering
18:32 < drazak_> but I think the base is only 10mbps
18:32 < fenn> kanzure: no it's a theory of why everyone comes up with te same tings at the same time
18:32 < genehacker_> is that a brownian rectifier?
18:32 < kanzure> fenn: no, the TLD/domain name in the URL.
18:32 < kanzure> ccrnp ncifcrf gov
18:32 < fenn> it's a muscle fiber powered rotary engine
18:32 < genehacker_> WHOA
18:33 < kanzure> ah neat
18:33 < kanzure> I'm glad somebody has done this
18:33 < genehacker_> I wonder if this is more efficient than muscle
18:33 < kanzure> how much power do you get out
18:33 < genehacker_> I wonder if one was ever built
18:33 < drazak_> any of you dudes going to be in boston over the summer?
18:33 < genehacker_> muscle is about 25% efficient
18:33 < fenn> drazak_: i wish
18:34 < kanzure> drazak_: I will be there in spirit
18:34 < drazak_> I might be a research assistant in boston
18:34 < drazak_> for my uncle
18:35 < fenn> where does your uncle work?
18:35 < drazak_> uh
18:35 < drazak_> research at harvard
18:35 < kanzure> isn't that cheating
18:36 < drazak_> a little :P
18:36 < drazak_> narcissism is horrible until it happens to you!
18:36 < fenn> nepotism
18:36 < drazak_> whatever
18:36 < splicer> hehe
18:36 < fenn> nihilism
18:36 < genehacker_> hmmm...
18:37 < genehacker_> I wonder if this pump would be submersible
18:37  * drazak_ nihilist
18:38 < drazak_> kanzure: what was the enzyme called?
18:38 < genehacker_> GASP-1?
18:38 < kanzure> for what
18:38 < drazak_> kanzure: the one ofr cleaving da 1 nucleotide at a time
18:38 < kanzure> it's related to an endonuclease
18:38 < kanzure> not a ligase .. it's a... er..
18:39 < kanzure> line
18:39 < drazak_> fenn: were you there when I talked to him last night?
18:39 < fenn> hether for art thou, romeo
18:40 < fenn> drazak_: yes
18:40 < drazak_> what enzyme did he say?
18:40 < fenn> i wasn't really listening
18:40 < kanzure> have I been making up enzymes again?
18:40 < drazak_> maybe
18:40 < kanzure> I could have sworn this exists
18:40 < kanzure> you could use an endonuclease to cleave off one nucleotide if you attach the cleavage site to it
18:41 < drazak_> ok
18:41 < drazak_> I'll just say that
18:41 < drazak_> I'm trying to further impress my uncle so that he'll take me
18:41 < drazak_> :P
18:41 < fenn> "A nuclease is an enzyme capable of cleaving the phosphodiester bonds between the nucleotide subunits of nucleic acids."
18:42 < kanzure> drazak_: the real way to impress him is to read all of his papers and cite it in your proposal or something
18:42 < kanzure> what is his name / link?
18:42 < fenn> Endonucleases are enzymes that cleave the phosphodiester bond within a polynucleotide chain, in contrast to exonucleases, which cleave phosphodiester bonds at the end of a polynucleotide chain.
18:42 < drazak_> kanzure: e finkelstein
18:43 < kanzure> seriously?
18:43 < drazak_> yes?
18:43 < kanzure> hehe
18:43 < drazak_> you know his papers?
18:43 < drazak_> he works on lab on a chip stuff
18:44 < kanzure> hm.
18:44 < kanzure> no.
18:44 < drazak_> he married into the family
18:44 < fenn> i dont see any E. Finkelsteins
18:44 < drazak_> I'm not a finkelstein
18:44 < kanzure> the results on google scholar are nil 
18:44 < kanzure> does this guy exist?
18:45 < drazak_> hold on
18:45 < splicer> https://www.researchgate.net/author/E+Finkelstein
18:45 < drazak_> he goes by eb finkelstein
18:45 < drazak_> I thought he did e finkelstein
18:45 < kanzure> I only see: The role of VEGF isoforms in tumor angiogenesis
18:46 < drazak_> yeah
18:46 < drazak_> I saw that one too
18:46 < drazak_> when he was working in syracuse
18:46 < drazak_> his stuff is like darpa now
18:46 < drazak_> so you might have to search patents
18:46 < kanzure> urhm.
18:46 < drazak_> http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104084493/abstract
18:46 < fenn> yay SCIENCE
18:47 < kanzure> fenn: do you have a UT login yet?
18:47 < drazak_> http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713811278~db=all
18:47 < kanzure> http://ezproxy.lib.utexas.edu/login?url=guess-what
18:47 < fenn> kanzure: sort of; they wont let me use it for anything
18:47 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
18:47 < kanzure> fenn: surely they will let you use the library's online services?
18:48 < fenn> oh, wow
18:49 < fenn> ok how do i use this
18:49 < kanzure> did it log you in?
18:49 < kanzure> it's just a proxy, so it does a search-and-replace on all URLs or something
18:50 < kanzure> and lets you access PDFs from the super-evil journals
18:50 < drazak_> I know my friends university access
18:50 < drazak_> I can use it to search
18:51 < kanzure> I wish I would have had a friend back in the day who gave me university access to scholarly literature
18:51 < kanzure> back in high school I had to steal it from the taliban or something
18:51 < fenn> i got a pdf!
18:51 < drazak_> rofl
18:51 < kanzure> go pokeball!
18:51 < drazak_> I lost it though
18:51 < drazak_> :(
18:52 < fenn> good old taliban password bbs'es
18:52 < fenn> we would trade opium and RPG's for journal articles
18:52 < drazak_> haha
18:53 < splicer> maybe they are
18:55 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE3BD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:55 < splicer> is it true that lab assistants are underpaid?
18:55 < kanzure> yes
18:56 < fenn> how could it not be true?
18:57 < drazak_> I'll probably work for free
18:57 < drazak_> I'd be staying with him and my aunt in boston
18:57 < splicer> somehow i thougt it was a bit like the software business... not that most people make a lot of money.. but they get by at least.
18:57 < fenn> drazak_: make sure to go spy on the media lab for us
18:57 < genehacker_> TELL US EVERYTHING
18:57 < drazak_> I'm going to spy on the whole thing
18:57 < drazak_> they're growin HEARTS
18:57 < fenn> and MINDS
18:57 < drazak_> and BONES
18:57 < drazak_> and KIDNEYS
18:58 < genehacker_> I could use a second heart
18:58 < genehacker_> that way I could be just like doctor who
18:58 < drazak_> lol
18:58 < genehacker_> always build in redundancy...
18:59 < fenn> sigh.. all my old muds are wiped from the face of the internet
18:59 < splicer> where would you put it?
18:59 < drazak_> and he's growing skeletal muscle
19:00 < fenn> genehacker_: and make it run on a fusion reactor core so you dont have to recharge it every twenty minutes
19:00 < kanzure> is it wrong that I've played more MOOs than MUDs? :(
19:00 < genehacker_> now how I'm I supposed to build a handheld switch and battery case that doesn't look like a trigger to a suicide bomber vest?
19:00 < kanzure> just give it curves
19:00 < fenn> it's mostly a matter of which one you were exposed to first, i think
19:01 < genehacker_> deabbriviate those acronyms plz
19:01 < kanzure> fenn: unfortunately, I was exposed to neither 
19:01 < fenn> either one will get you humiliated in public though, so i dont really see the difference
19:01 < kanzure> but for some reason I said hello on the Artemis Society MOO server
19:01 < fenn> MOO is more interactive
19:01 < kanzure> ah, that's right, MUDs had more backend servery goodness
19:01 < fenn> MUD is more .. solid
19:02 < genehacker_> That's it
19:02 < fenn> sort of like secondlife vs WoW
19:02 < genehacker_> I'll use a reed switch
19:02 < genehacker_> oh
19:02 < genehacker_> deabriviation plz?
19:02 < fenn> multi user dungeon/dimension, MUD object oriented (i guess)
19:02 < fenn> it doesnt really elp does it
19:03 < fenn> an IRC channel is like one 'room' or grid coordinate in a virtual mud world
19:03 < fenn> but on IRC we can only talk and emote (/me)
19:04 < fenn> whereas in a mud there are also items and actions and state variables like hitpoints etc
19:04 < kanzure> er, wait, did MUDs do IRC integration?
19:04 < drazak_> lol
19:04 < kanzure> it was like interactive fiction on steroids
19:04 < fenn> i wouldnt be surprised, but usually not
19:04 < kanzure> IIRC
19:04 < drazak_> this is takin for fucking ever
19:04 < fenn> there was a mud-wide IRC channel, channel for each clan or guild or whatever
19:04 < fenn> er, except it wasnt IRC
19:04 < fenn> the protocol i mean
19:05 < fenn> i think my mind was permanently shaped by early exposure to muds
19:05 < fenn> and that's why i feel comfortable with a command line (it's how i learned to type after all)
19:06 < splicer> people used to use muds as irc:s
19:06 < fenn> VieMUD was heavily influenced by unix concepts
19:06 < fenn> you could do variable substitution, set up aliases, shell history search, etc
19:06 < fenn> and of course tab completion
19:07 < kanzure> huh
19:07 < kanzure> sounds nice.
19:07 < kanzure> sadly I learned to roleplay on forums .. not quite the best place.
19:07 < fenn> my condolences
19:07 < kanzure> must increase post count ..
19:07 < kanzure> to get to level 2..
19:07 < kanzure> blah.
19:07 < genehacker_> I don't roleplay
19:08 < fenn> anyway viemud was written in plain C and suffered under the decades of code hacking
19:08 < fenn> eventually it was down to just one Implementor
19:08 < kanzure> much like nethack?
19:08 < kanzure> heh
19:08 < fenn> nethack is gross
19:08 < fenn> more like interactive storytelling
19:08 < kanzure> fenn: I introduced you to Bill at The Castilian. he just sent me a link over to this feynman/connection-machine article: http://www.longnow.org/views/essays/articles/ArtFeynman.php
19:08 < fenn> but with guns and swords
19:08 < kanzure> nice to see someone I've known since high school reading longnow.org
19:09 < genehacker_> I like nethack
19:09 < kanzure> you play nethack?
19:09 < genehacker_> I played it a little
19:09 < genehacker_> I have it on my DS
19:09 < kanzure> wtf
19:09 < genehacker_> but it doesn't work with my flashcart
19:09 < genehacker_> ever hear of homebrew?
19:10 < kanzure> yeah
19:10 < kanzure> of course .. we've all done our own gameboy color games at one point or another
19:10 < genehacker_> I haven't yet...
19:10 < kanzure> hex hacking nastolgia.
19:10 < fenn> it's really kind of amazing how many awesome ideas people have ad in the past that were just too early
19:10 < genehacker_> too much freestuff
19:10 < fenn> stuff like transputer/connection machine, or engelbart's stuff
19:10 < genehacker_> too little freetime
19:11 < genehacker_> who is this bill person?
19:11 < kanzure> high school friend
19:12 < drazak_> jesus fuck
19:12 < kanzure> he's smart, but not in the way that makes him do anything
19:12 < drazak_> this album is a fucking gig
19:12 < kanzure> but he doesn't do nothing in the same sense that I do nothing
19:12 < kanzure> he seems to just play guitar or something :p
19:13 < genehacker_> well he might be useful
19:13 < genehacker_> one of my friends who builds ridiculous custom nerf guns also happens to play guitar
19:13 < fenn> heh "Instead, we planned to connect the processors in a 20-dimensional hypercube"
19:13 < kanzure> if you want to talk with him, he's bluesplayer@gmail.com
19:13 < genehacker_> he's trying to make his own dart factory
19:14 < kanzure> OR! a 20-d TIMECUBE! yeah!
19:14 < genehacker_> haha time cube
19:14 < genehacker_> The time cube ⬖ ⬗ ⬘ ⬙
19:14 < genehacker_> THE GOVERNMENT ENCODED IT INTO UNICODE
19:15 < kanzure> isn't unicode ISO, and not US govt?
19:15 < fenn> i, er, yeah
19:15 < splicer> kanzure: Have you directed a swedish transhumanist named Alexander my way?
19:15 < kanzure> splicer: no, I don't think so
19:15 < splicer> k.. thanks
19:15 < kanzure> splicer: btw, do you know Anders Sandberg yet?
19:15 < fenn> there was someone in here trying to start wta.se? or transhumanism.se maybe
19:15 < kanzure> http://aleph.se/
19:15 < splicer> yeah... alexander wanted transhumanism.se
19:15 < fenn> or maybe e was trying to make transhumanism.se more general and less biohacking focused
19:16 < splicer> so sandberg was here?
19:16 < kanzure> it's sad that Anders is just an ethicist at Oxford now
19:16 < kanzure> no, sandberg never talks with me
19:16 < splicer> i don't know any of them
19:19 < fenn> them?
19:19 < splicer> kanzure is the only one who sometimes calls himself transhumanist i know
19:20 < kanzure> I'd rather be a transhuman than an -ist :(
19:20 < splicer> i think their time has passed... but thats another topic
19:21 < splicer> i think it was probably great to be an extropian in the 80:ies
19:21 < fenn> pfff
19:21 < kanzure> what did they accomplish?
19:21 < fenn> the 2080's maybe
19:22 < fenn> if we're lucky
19:22 < splicer> they were a think tank... they had a lot of fun
19:22 < fenn> kanzure: they wrote a bunch of books
19:22 < fenn> and had some newsgroup flame wars
19:22 < fenn> about the same as now, pretty much
19:23 < splicer> it was the time to have flamewars
19:23 < kanzure> I should start using history as an example
19:23 < kanzure> "how is this any different from the 80s"
19:23 < fenn> it just seems so much more grand because we get a whole decade compressed into a single wiki article
19:26 < splicer> the garage biology culture needs to get started... we need the new apples and hp:s
19:26 < kanzure> how can we make sure that doesn't happen to me
19:26 < kanzure> splicer: nobody cares enough to listen to us
19:26 < kanzure> everybody's too busy talking about the ethics of biohacking and other bullshit
19:26 < kanzure> rather than actually fixing any of the problems they are talking about
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19:27 < splicer> yup... it's like everyone thinks there are scientists in white lab coats taking care of business.
19:27 < genehacker_> well that's what I'm trying to do with my DNA synth project
19:28 < genehacker_> no response in diybio
19:28 < kanzure> nobody has replied to you
19:28 < genehacker_> because of the horrible formatting?
19:29 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE3BD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:29 < kanzure> the second time you sent it, it looked better
19:29 < kanzure> so now it's just because people are lazy fucks
19:29 < bkero> kanzure: yo
19:29 < genehacker_> still it's a big pile of words
19:29 < genehacker_> maybe if I make it easier to read
19:30 < genehacker_> I'll get a response
19:30 < fenn> genehacker_: i'm pretty certain you'll have to build a working model before anyone gets excited
19:30 < genehacker_> I need some damn phosphoramidite nucleosides!
19:30 < genehacker_> ok
19:30 < fenn> so steal some
19:31 < genehacker_> hmmm
19:32 < genehacker_> so first I need to find out if they have a DNA synth here on campus, then I have to find a way to disable the alarm system...
19:32 < kanzure> ellington has one
19:32 < genehacker_> he does
19:32 < genehacker_> hmmm...
19:32 < kanzure> do you want the operating manuals?
19:32 < genehacker_> nah I can find those online
19:32 < kanzure> how could you if you don't know the model?
19:32 < genehacker_> but if you have em in PDF form send them to me
19:32 < fenn> i suspect the nucleosides will be in bottles in a cabinet next to the macine
19:33 < kanzure> or in the refirdgerator
19:33 < genehacker_> because I already found one
19:33 < splicer> they are expensive i think
19:33 < kanzure> refrigerator
19:33 < kanzure> you found one what?
19:33 < genehacker_> they will be in four different bottles connected to the machine
19:33 < kanzure> not if they aren't loaded.
19:33 < kanzure> also, it's more than four bottles
19:33 < kanzure> those are the dNTPs
19:33 < genehacker_> they tend to stay loaded
19:34 < genehacker_> what is that?
19:34 < kanzure> nucleotides.
19:34 < genehacker_> perhaps we could borrow some
19:34 < genehacker_> legitly borrow some
19:34 < fenn> sort of like borrowing a cup of sugar
19:35 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/ellingtonlab/A_E-Lab_Stuff/Software/Programs/
19:35 < fenn> you have to say it like 'pardon me, do you have any grey poupon'
19:36 < genehacker_> if we could make a microfluidic instant DNA synth we could ask for about 5 ml and we might be set for life
19:36 < kanzure> eh
19:36 < kanzure> you apparently don't know about debugging yet
19:37 < genehacker_> yeah...
19:37 < genehacker_> I wonder how much stuff is used up each nucleotide cycle with the maskless litho thing?
19:39 < fenn> depends how much you add
19:39 < fenn> higher concentration = faster reaction kinetics
19:39 < kanzure> why not vary temperature, pressure, concentration, etc.
19:40 < kanzure> I don't know why I don't see more experiments done under high pressure or something
19:40 < kanzure> wouldn't it be advantageous?
19:40 < fenn> temperature might cause bad side reactions like depolymerization
19:40 < fenn> pressure is expensive and somewhat dangerous
19:40 < genehacker_> huh
19:41 < fenn> you have to get into GPa to really see weird cemical reactions
19:41 < kanzure> not in a microfluidic system. you could apply pressure by turning a screw, or putting a giant brick on it or something
19:41 < fenn> unless they're gas phase reactions
19:41 < genehacker_> that is interesting because take a look at this:
19:41 < kanzure> fenn: GPa is probably easier to reach in smaller volumes
19:42 < fenn> of course
19:42 < drazak_> deacronym
19:42 < fenn> giga pascal = 145000 psi
19:42 < drazak_> oh
19:42 < drazak_> psi no help, but ok
19:42 < fenn> pounds per square inc
19:42 < genehacker_> hold on
19:42 < kanzure> I've sometimes thought about a method to make GPa or kPa at least with your finger force
19:42 < kanzure> but in sufficiently small volumes or something
19:42 < drazak_> I know what psi IS
19:43 < drazak_> oh right
19:43 -!- nsh [n=nsh@host86-141-178-190.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:43 < genehacker_> point is in the dna chips by maskless lithography patent, the reaction chamber looks like it is built for high pressure
19:43 < drazak_> 101.7kpa=atm gigapascal=10000atm
19:43 < genehacker_> or that it was over engineered
19:44 < fenn> what makes you say that
19:45 < genehacker_> well when I find it you'll see
19:46 -!- fenn_ [n=fenn@cpe-72-177-52-180.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:46 < fenn_> gah
19:46 -!- fenn [n=fenn@cpe-72-177-52-180.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
19:46 -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn
19:47 < fenn> so you were making empty threats about your dna synthesizer
19:47 < splicer> there is probably a very elegant dna synthetization method just waiting to be discovered
19:47 < splicer> somewhere
19:47 < fenn> i have it
19:47 < splicer> the light thing?
19:48 < fenn> yes
19:48 < fenn> could it get any more elegant?
19:48 < splicer> you may be right
19:48 < genehacker_> blast
19:48 < fenn> if a mechanical computer were integrated somehow, peraps (not more elegant but infinitely more useful)
19:48 < genehacker_> I'm having trouble finding it
19:49 < genehacker_> mechanical integrators?
19:49 < genehacker_> they exist
19:49 < genehacker_> mechanical differential integrators
19:49 < fenn> mechanical computer + laser diodes + dna read/write head
19:49 < fenn> then you have a network between cells, eac cell is a network node
19:50 < genehacker_> maskless photolithography gene synthesis is pretty elegant
19:50 < fenn> laser link being te physical layer, sort of like wifi since you're below the diffraction limit
19:50 < fenn> then the computer could demultiplex single-frequency light, or other data transmission schemes
19:51 < fenn> instead of the write head being "hard wired" to write an A on 440 nm or whatever
19:52 < genehacker_> http://www.google.com/patents?id=YYIKAAAAEBAJ&dq=method+and+apparatus+for+synthesis+of+arrays+of+dna+probes
19:52 < fenn> there is someting hard stuck underneath my "h" key and i dont know how to get it out without breaking the key off
19:52 < genehacker_> take a look at this
19:52 < kanzure> fenn: laptop keyboards can be removed
19:52 < genehacker_> mechanical computers need to be made very accurately in order to be accurate
19:52 < fenn> yeas.. rmm but the laptop would probably disintegrate and i'll never get it back together
19:52 < splicer> fenn: the print head is a protein?
19:52 < fenn> splicer: yes, protein complex
19:53 < genehacker_> are laptop keyboards not supposed to be removable?
19:53 < kanzure> no, they are generally replaceable
19:53 < fenn> splicer: like PolIII but with some antennae stuck on it (in the hard wired version)
19:53 < genehacker_> Dell laptop keyboards are?
19:53 < kanzure> maybe. you should check the screws.
19:53 < splicer> fenn: checking
19:54 < genehacker_> see sheet seven on the patent
19:54 < genehacker_> that slide is bolted down
19:54 < genehacker_> oh
19:54 < genehacker_> for alignment
19:55 < fenn> genehacker_: what is the patent number?
19:56 < fenn> oh nm i see google now allows you to download a pdf
19:58 < fenn> splicer: the green and purple blob in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6FitehwJg4
19:58 < genehacker_> yeah
19:58 < genehacker_> which I why I like google patent
19:58 < fenn> splicer: you'd have to supply it with a fake template strand
19:59 < fenn> or else modify the enzyme someow so that the template strand won't interfere with bases in the new strand
19:59 < kanzure> conformational changes to make it only allow certain template nucleotides would be a nice way to go about it
19:59 < kanzure> then you immobilize the polymerase to an electrode or something
20:00 < fenn> and move the dna around? that would take forever
20:00 < kanzure> polymerase moves the dna
20:00 < splicer> fenn: thanks
20:00 < fenn> exponentially forever
20:00 < kanzure> er
20:00 < kanzure> polymerase moves it I thought?
20:00 < kanzure> is there any immobilized polymerase function studies out there?
20:00 < kanzure> I don't think I've seen any
20:00 < fenn> polymerase moves along the template strand like a train on train tracks
20:01 < fenn> yes, i'm sure there are
20:01 < kanzure> ok, so you don't have to move the strand then
20:01 < kanzure> the train doesn't move the planet :p
20:01 < kanzure> unless you're watching futurama
20:01 < fenn> the pacific biosciences<?> sequencer works with an immobilized polymerase
20:01 < fenn> kanzure: generally DNA is much higher molecular weight than the polymerase molecule
20:02 < kanzure> bah, it's a strong 'lil fighter
20:02 < fenn> so i say the polymerase moves along the DNA
20:02 < fenn> now, in some PCR reaction it might be different
20:02 < fenn> but really who cares
20:03 < kanzure> I think an electrical method to change the conformation of an immobilized polymerase is somewhat more likely to work than engineering a laser/wavelength conformational system
20:03 < kanzure> if only because you can immobilize the polymerase and already have it at a specific location or something
20:04 < fenn> you still have to figure out how to make the correct conformational change, which i think is the hard part
20:04 < fenn> in a distributed amorphous system, i dont have to worry about attaching to a specific electrode
20:05 < fenn> i just have to make sure the floaty things are all stuck together
20:05 < genehacker_> cool
20:05 < fenn> and it's all bio-producible
20:05 < kanzure> maybe I should just go read up on protein engineering
20:05 < fenn> i mean, why would you want electrodes?
20:06 < genehacker_> I just saw some mammatus clouds
20:06 < genehacker_> electrodes?
20:06 < genehacker_> are you talking about the method of microarray DNA synthesis that uses electrodes
20:06 < kanzure> the azobenzene light-gated ion channels are a nice example
20:07 < kanzure> maybe a polymerase that has different tunnels for different nucleotides in the template would be ideal?
20:07 < kanzure> no
20:07 < kanzure> this is fenn's super writozyme thingy
20:07 < fenn> genehacker_: yes pretty much.. but the electrodes are the easy part
20:07 < fenn> and i think it'd work better without them anyway
20:07 < splicer> as I remember it inside the polymerase there is a mechanism that reads the nucleotides a bit ahead of time... so it's this mechanism that has to be modified?
20:08 < kanzure> fenn: be careful, the electrode methods are a different technique and might be what genehacker_ is talking about .. i.e., the methods that use acids
20:08 < kanzure> er, the acid/electrolysis versions or something
20:08 < fenn> oh
20:08 < fenn> well it woulnt be the first time he misunderstood
20:08 < genehacker_> there was a company made that uses some crazy electrochemical chips to synthesize DNA microarrays
20:08 < kanzure> see?
20:08 < genehacker_> chips full DNA strands
20:09 < fenn> kanzure: are there well understood (simple) models of protein conformational change in response to voltage/current?
20:09 < kanzure> fenn: voltage-gated ion channels?
20:09 < kanzure> I should hit you over the head for asking that question
20:09 < kanzure> :p
20:10 < fenn> wtf? ion channel isnt a conformational change
20:10 < kanzure> oh
20:10 < kanzure> er
20:10 < kanzure> it opens and closes in response to voltage. the closing is a blocking phenomena
20:10 < fenn> hrmm
20:10 < fenn> what makes it move?
20:10 < kanzure> hold on, doing some sys admin bullshit for the sata lab
20:11 < genehacker_> oh shoot
20:11 < genehacker_> I need to sign up for that
20:11 < fenn> splicer: i'm getting polymerase confused with old CNC paper tape machinery now.. are you sure there is readahead in polymerase?
20:12 < splicer> fenn: i'll check... i think there has to be
20:13 < splicer> in the back of my head i think it was like 10bases.. i'll check
20:13 < genehacker_> wouldn't a paper tape driven CNC be a ribosome?
20:13 < fenn> splicer: are you thinking of the mismatch detection?
20:14 < fenn> there's both pre- and post- error correction
20:14 < splicer> mmm.. yeah, 
20:14 < splicer> i think you're right
20:14 < fenn> as far as i know the actual 'swap' occurs in one step
20:14 < fenn> there's no RAM or anything
20:14 < fenn> after all what would be the point?
20:14 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/school/buildingbrains/all.html
20:14 < kanzure> search for "voltage-gated" or "voltage gated"
20:15 < kanzure> er
20:15 < kanzure> or just 'voltage'
20:15 < kanzure> "voltage dependent ion gates"
20:16 < fenn> the neuron stuff? dont they work on rate of change anyway?
20:17 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage-gated_ion_channel
20:17 < kanzure> ah, "voltage drop"
20:17 < kanzure> "it is possible to surmise that when a potential difference is introduced over the membrane, the associated electromagnetic field induces a conformational change in the potassium channel."
20:18 < kanzure> "The conformational change distorts the shape of the channel proteins sufficiently such that the cavity, or channel, opens to admit ion influx or efflux to occur across the membrane, down its electrochemical gradient. This subsequently generates an electrical current sufficient to depolarise the cell membrane."
20:18 < fenn> sorry kanzure but your massive page of transcribed professor speak doesn't really help
20:18 < kanzure> the wikipedia article is better :)
20:18 < fenn> as usual
20:18 < kanzure> The voltage-sensitive protein domain of these channels (the "voltage sensor") generally contains a region composed of S3b and S4 helices, known as the "paddle" due to its shape, which appears to be a conserved sequence, interchangeable across a wide variety of cells and species. Genetic engineering of the paddle region from a species of volcano-dwelling archaebacteria into rat brain potassium channels results in a fully functional
20:18 < kanzure> huh
20:18 < kanzure> there's a domain that is voltage-sensitive. how convenient.
20:19 < fenn> are you sure it's voltage sensitive or actually just ion flow sensitive?
20:19 < fenn> because without a membrane you have no ion flow
20:19 < kanzure> this article is lacking references
20:19 < kanzure> someone deserves to die
20:20 < fenn> meh
20:21 < fenn> i can see how that would work
20:21 < fenn> it could be like a snap action switch, or like a pressure regulator
20:22 < fenn> anyway if my thinking is right it's based on osmotic pressure
20:22 < fenn> or whatever the voltage-iduced equivalet is
20:22 < fenn> great now my n key is doig it too
20:23 < fenn> h seems to be better, maybe the thig just moved
20:23  * fenn shakes laptop upside dow vigorously
20:23 < genehacker_> hmmm...
20:23 < genehacker_> looks like It's going to hail here
20:24 < fenn> duck and cover
20:26 < fenn> one of these days we'll have a super duper protein simulation environment and we can just load the pdb and watch it go
20:26 < fenn> like nanorex
20:26 < splicer> fenn: I think you were right about the mismatch repair .. thanks.
20:27 < fenn> then i won't have to bother with whatever the protein scientists are calling it, i can just see how the damn thing works
20:28 -!- splicer is now known as splicer_zzz
20:28 < fenn> splicer_zzz: what does sthf stand for?
20:28 < genehacker_> sigh
20:28 < fenn> swedish transhumanist front?
20:29  * kanzure goes off to look for some food
20:29 < genehacker_> If we only had ridiculous quantum computers
20:30 < fenn> if only google would stop substituing every fucking letter in my search query
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21:08 < kanzure> *** - NTH: (1) is not a non-negative integer
21:08 < kanzure> roar!
21:26 -!- mindspillage [n=kat@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:27 < kanzure> car of (1) is apparently a non-negative integer, however.
21:27 < kanzure> gee, that only took 20 minutes! at this rate,
21:27  * kanzure counts
21:27 < kanzure> it will only take forever.
21:34 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@98.234.52.78] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:45 < fenn> (forever) is not a non-negative integer
21:53 -!- nsh [i=sbp@59.176.232.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:58 < kanzure> #:TEETH_GOAL is not a string
21:58 < kanzure> hrm.
22:07 < drazak_> ugh
22:08 < drazak_> tomorrow I need to find papers to support my idea
22:09 -!- any62500538 [n=someone@75-121-63-19.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:09 < kanzure> drazak_: have you considered doing it the other way around?
22:10 < drazak_> no :P
22:10 < drazak_> I already emailed the ide
22:10 < drazak_> atomorrow I need to email a bibliography to support it
22:10 < kanzure> maybe you should download the microfluidics paper archive in the mean time
22:11 < drazak_> got a link that I can wget?
22:12  * drazak_ going to bed
22:12 < drazak_> couple more trivia questions
22:14 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/ 
22:14 < kanzure> there should be a zip file in there
22:14 < kanzure> or in the parent directory with an obvious name
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22:27 < kanzure> "high voltage awareness day"
22:28 < kanzure> sounds like a job for 4hv.org
22:37 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@pool-173-57-41-223.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:43 < kanzure> *** - APPLY: argument (LAMBDA (A) (COND (A (LIST '/ A 'TEETH_GOAL)))) is not a function.
22:43 < kanzure> oh, I guess I should take the car of that
22:44 < kanzure> blah
22:48 < fenn> kanzure: you know.. maybe you should do some basic lisp exercises first, instead of pretending you know the language
22:49 < kanzure> if you stare at the code long enough, you somehow know it.
22:50 < fenn> or think you know it
22:50 < fenn> anyway.. what does sata want to do at the fab?
22:50 < kanzure> store stuff
22:50 < kanzure> and maybe do some wetlab stuff
22:51 < fenn> store as in hands-off or we-can-use-it
22:51 < kanzure> you know what, I'm not sure
22:51 < kanzure> he would probably be ok with sharing tools, but I doubt he'd be ok with sharing materials
22:52 -!- dizt [n=duzt@dsl093-216-054.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:52 < fenn> storing materials? like chemicals?
22:52 < kanzure> I'm talking out of my ass
22:52 < kanzure> I forget what he was thinking of doing
22:53 < fenn> ok. i have no idea what sata does or wants to do
22:53 < kanzure> it's also kind of strange because he already has more than enough lab space
22:53 < fenn> right
22:53 < kanzure> one of the labs is a typical bio lab and classes go on in there
22:53 < kanzure> the other lab is a concrete attachment to the greenhouse on the sixth floor of another building
22:53 < kanzure> the greenhouse houses a few rooms, one of the rooms has our 400 gallon algae tanks
22:53 < kanzure> s/tanks/ponds/
22:55 < kanzure> we also have some field acerage at brakenridge field labs
22:55 < kanzure> maybe he's interested in using it for development of some equipment. that would make sense.
22:55 < fenn> what does that mean exactly?
22:56 < kanzure> that means we struck ground a week ago with some machinery to dig up space for some ponds
22:56 < kanzure> 20x20x3 or so
22:56 < fenn> aha
22:56 < fenn> i want to do some aerostat/kite stuff in the indefinite future
22:56 < kanzure> random?
22:57 < fenn> for bouncing wifi or APRS around
22:57 < genehacker> heh class
22:57 < genehacker> es
22:57 < genehacker> I learned that the hard way
22:57 < kanzure> no, I mean, did we just change subjects somehow?
22:57 < kanzure> by seeing them in there?
22:57 < genehacker> there's also park that'd be great for aerostats
22:57 < genehacker> yeah...
22:57 < kanzure> what's so bad about that
22:58 < kanzure> ?
22:58 < genehacker> we got machinery?
22:58 < fenn> er.. all i meant was it'd be nice to have some open area to mess with airplanes and kites and not have some park ranger try to shoot me
22:58 < genehacker> graders or bulldozers?
22:58 < kanzure> not sure
22:58 < kanzure> I think we rented something
22:58 < kanzure> or, BFL did
22:58 < genehacker> no park ranger's gonna shoot you
22:58 < genehacker> you have to worry about dogs though
22:58 < genehacker> ]
22:58 < genehacker> it's a dog park
22:58 < fenn> well they might mess with my balloon
22:58 < genehacker> kites already fly there
22:59 < genehacker> nah dogs aren't too attracted to balloons
22:59 < fenn> heh
22:59 < fenn> where's this dog park?
22:59 < kanzure> do you mean zilker?
22:59 < genehacker> yeah
22:59 < genehacker> I've seen people kite buggy around places like that
23:00 < genehacker> I've seen kites in the trees there
23:01 < kanzure> I've seen people in the trees there
23:01 < fenn> people in the kites in the trees there?
23:02 < kanzure> thought it was some sort of failed college experiment
23:03 < fenn> is there some kind of austin wiki?
23:03 < kanzure> not that I know of.
23:05 < fenn> Connection to host www.urbanaustin.org is broken.
23:05 < fenn> oh well
23:06 < fenn> looks like it was up for a whole 4 months in 2007
23:06 < fenn> The goal of the Urban Austin project is to give the residents of Austin a complete, continually-updated online reference source of what's being planned and built. It will also serve as an online archive of this period of drastic change in the urban landscape, capturing images of a city in transition.
23:07 < kanzure> there are some commercial thingies out there, but take it with some salt
23:07 < kanzure> like austin360
23:07 < fenn> austin360 blows goats
23:08 < kanzure> yep
23:12 < genehacker> what is austin360?
23:12 < genehacker> explain why it blows goats
23:13 < kanzure> it's a terrible website
23:13 < genehacker> oh yeah
23:13 < genehacker> that...
23:14 < fenn> it's mostly ads for TV shows, and the rest is just journalists bitching
23:14 < genehacker> of course...
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