--- Day changed Mon Jul 13 2009
00:01 < ybit> guess not
00:01 < ybit> http://tinmith.net btw
00:19 < fenn> laptop strapped to your back is not a wearable computer
00:35 < ybit> in the sciencemadness.org "Homebrew Chem Lab - lessons learned" forum post, the author doesn't mention law enforcement, i wonder what he/she learned regarding that
00:35 < ybit> talked to a former police officer today, he said that it would be a good idea to check with the county health department 
00:36 < ybit> before forming the genetic eng lab
00:36 < ybit> bio/chem/fab lab
00:46 -!- drazak [n=drazak@drazak.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:46 < genehacker> kanzure so are you considering the DNA synth again or something else?
00:48 < genehacker> science madness has a biochemistry section
00:49 -!- drazak [n=drazak@drazak.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:29 < ybit> kanzure: i guess you were referring to Dennō Coil
01:29 < ybit> yw, it's definitely entertaining
01:31 < fenn> the main character sucks
01:36 < fenn> like most anime you can probably get away with watching the first three episodes and the last three episodes
01:41 < genehacker> what Kanzure made a coil reference?
01:41 < genehacker> ummm I wouldn't say that fenn
01:41 < genehacker> things get pretty weird
01:42 < genehacker> guess so
01:51 < fenn> anyone know of any sort of programming language like the 'encode' magic diagrams?
01:52 < fenn> labview just doesnt really cut it
01:52 -!- any42998848 is now known as katsmeow-afk
01:54 < genehacker> be interesting to program c with symbols
01:56 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAKON
01:56 < genehacker> not this
01:57 < genehacker> strange exampe
01:59 < genehacker> nope
02:01 < fenn> all examples i've seen so far are just crappy boxes and arrows
02:07 < fenn> hard to even find a picture of it anywhere
02:08 < fenn> http://www.gatto999.it/images/stories/Dennou%20Coil%20e%20Rozen%20Maiden/encode.jpg
02:10 < genehacker> that looks hard to draw
02:13 < fenn> this isnt too hard is it? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZDp7eCVGLMk/R02U7UKYQfI/AAAAAAAAbQ4/9rAsep8GVR0/s400/vlcsnap-00030.jpg
02:15 < fenn> hmm
02:15 < fenn> not sure what this is all about http://blog.pachube.com/2009/06/pachube-augmented-reality-demo-with.html
02:18 -!- any96777350 [n=someone@75-120-40-120.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:20 < genehacker> boxes would certainly be better
02:20 < genehacker> unless you're not drawing them
02:21 < fenn> why would boxes be better?
02:21 < genehacker> easier to draw
02:21 < fenn> it's hard to do anything resembling object oriented code with boxes and arrows
02:21 < fenn> easy to draw is a minor problem
02:22 < genehacker> draw up some symbols for programming elements
02:22 < genehacker> I'm not very good at programming
02:22 < fenn> writing code is hard; actually typing it out the program is a small part of it
02:22 < genehacker> first off how would you represent if?
02:22 < fenn> same argument for drawing
02:23 < genehacker> if A==1 do this
02:23 < fenn> i expect it would be closely tied to the implementation of the AR space
02:24 < genehacker> ok
02:24 < genehacker> so if object is in radius of sensor do this
02:25 < genehacker> maybe it will be like second life programming
02:25 < genehacker> ugh...
02:25 < fenn> i expect it would be more like lisp
02:25 < genehacker> I don't know lisp
02:25 < fenn> because you're minimizing the syntax
02:25 < genehacker> but in second life objects have a sort of radar and can look around at things
02:26 < fenn> SL has a terrible scripting interface
02:26 < fenn> have you ever looked at Alice?
02:26 -!- any57178071 [n=someone@75-120-38-26.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:26 < genehacker> which is quite annoying because you can't just get some object's position and have other objects react to it
02:26 < fenn> or scratch?
02:26 -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-120-39-227.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
02:26 < genehacker> you have to look for it
02:26 < genehacker> no
02:26 < genehacker> no
02:26 < genehacker> well I have to read about fail
02:26 -!- any57178071 is now known as katsmeow-afk
02:26 < fenn> enjoy your fail
02:31 -!- any13689563 [n=someone@75-120-19-161.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:33 -!- any19253661 [n=someone@99-194-251-182.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:35 -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-120-38-26.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
02:37 -!- any96777350 [n=someone@75-120-40-120.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:38 -!- any64125241 [n=someone@99-194-254-237.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:41 -!- any63056125 [n=someone@75-120-218-212.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:49 < fenn> she doesnt look very happy http://s2.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/web02/2009/2/23/15/not-where-trains-should-go-20454-1235421680-15.jpg
02:50 -!- any13689563 [n=someone@75-120-19-161.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:53 -!- any80145682 [n=someone@75-120-16-230.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:54 -!- any19253661 [n=someone@99-194-251-182.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:56 -!- any64125241 [n=someone@99-194-254-237.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:56 -!- any61946182 [n=someone@75-120-29-209.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:59 < fenn> man this shit just gets weirder and weirder
02:59 < fenn> warning do not watch this if you are easily annoyed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCCx7zANsGE
03:00 -!- any63056125 [n=someone@75-120-218-212.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:04 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:10 -!- any80145682 [n=someone@75-120-16-230.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:15 -!- any61946182 [n=someone@75-120-29-209.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:25 -!- any90059601 [n=someone@99-195-184-7.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:28 -!- any53099003 [n=someone@75-120-31-91.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:31 -!- any98222532 [n=someone@99-194-248-60.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:32 -!- any10370428 [n=someone@75-120-44-69.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:37 -!- any32622707 [n=someone@99-195-184-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:44 -!- any90059601 [n=someone@99-195-184-7.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:46 -!- any31443183 [n=someone@99-195-185-112.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:48 -!- any53099003 [n=someone@75-120-31-91.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:50 -!- any98222532 [n=someone@99-194-248-60.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:55 -!- any10370428 [n=someone@75-120-44-69.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:03 -!- any32622707 [n=someone@99-195-184-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:24 -!- any20539685 [n=someone@75-120-217-25.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
04:24 -!- any31443183 [n=someone@99-195-185-112.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
04:43 -!- any59558444 [n=someone@75-120-44-179.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
04:59 -!- any20539685 [n=someone@75-120-217-25.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:34 -!- any52127069 [n=someone@75-121-61-49.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:35 < Utopiah> guess ARDeskTop videos http://www.youtube.com/user/WahWahHawah look more "useful" than the "Maid doll" equivalent
05:37 -!- any67188586 [n=someone@75-120-37-120.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:42 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE67AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:42 < fenn> i'm not too big on the whole fiducial marker concept anyway
05:45 < Utopiah> one good thing is... it can't be cheaper, you can even use a black marker and do it, just need a webcam and soft but... the bad thing is... what's the added value?
05:46 < fenn> well it's "poor man's VR"
05:46 < fenn> i guess my take is that the absolute position isnt terribly important, it's the relative position that matters
05:47 < fenn> so accelerometers ought to be good enough
05:47 < fenn> i guess i'll find out once i start playing around with accelerometers
05:52 < fenn> i find it strange that almost all the "AR" stuff is actually "mediated reality"
05:52 -!- any90287688 [n=someone@75-120-38-17.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:52 -!- any59558444 [n=someone@75-120-44-179.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:55 -!- any25057385 [n=someone@75-120-18-137.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:55 -!- any52127069 [n=someone@75-121-61-49.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:57 < Utopiah> ok, Ive found 1 good usage http://kougaku-navi.net/ARToolKit.html#Tachikoma ;)
06:00 < fenn> huh. if you look one page or so down you'll see the "temple" chalk sign i linked to earlier
06:09 -!- any67188586 [n=someone@75-120-37-120.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
06:12 -!- any90287688 [n=someone@75-120-38-17.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
06:47 -!- Smari [n=spm@nmi-gw.eyjar.is] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:49 < kanzure> sata is reducing my pay
06:49 < genehacker> you're getting paid?
06:49 < kanzure> $50/week for database programming, website creation and management, running around the lab yelling at people to give me data, etc. bull-fucking-shit. he can't expect that from me for $50/wk.
06:49 < genehacker> I haven't heard anything from steven or shadid btw
06:50 < genehacker> have they done any tests on my filter?
06:50 < kanzure> not sure
06:52 < Smari> $50 a week... that's like... 3 hours worth of work, tops.
06:53 < kanzure> yep
06:54 < kanzure> so how am I going to afford this apartment, again?
06:54 < kanzure> I signed a contract..
06:54 < genehacker> hopefully your LA trip will help with that
06:55 < genehacker> otherwise, want to start a business?
06:55 < kanzure> um, why?
06:55 < Smari> hasn't that trip happened yet? What's taking so long?
06:55 < kanzure> Smari: it's next weekend
06:55 < Smari> I'm fairly sure I just spent a weekend away.
06:55 < Smari> ah, k.
06:56 < genehacker> meeting with the alcor guy right?
06:56 < kanzure> no
06:56 < genehacker> who then?
06:58 < kanzure> new meetup group: http://www.meetup.com/Austin-Biotechies/
06:58 < genehacker> sweet!
06:58 < genehacker> when's the meeting
06:58 < kanzure> no plans
06:59 < genehacker> btw if we ever get this DNA synth thing working we might try to do some DNA nanotech stuff
07:10 -!- any62741611 [n=someone@99-195-185-37.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:12 -!- genehacker_ [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-141-222.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:16 < kanzure> yay for stacy
07:16 < kanzure> "Taq is super easy to purify, you don't need a column."
07:17 < genehacker_> really?
07:17 < genehacker_> also on silica gel
07:17 < genehacker_> it's super easy to make
07:17 < genehacker_> now about nucleotidases....
07:19 -!- any06843477 [n=someone@99.195.186.159] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:20 < genehacker_> oh I get it
07:21 < genehacker_> put the proteins to make taq in non-thermally tolerant bacteria and heat
07:21 < kanzure> um, no
07:21 < genehacker_> lyse them first?
07:21 < genehacker_> oops
07:21 < genehacker_> plasmid to make taq
07:21 < kanzure> stacy suggested using centrifugation
07:22 < kanzure> I'm debating whether or not I like centrifugation.
07:22 < genehacker_> that what it says in Diybio
07:22 < genehacker_> centrifuging is good
07:22 < genehacker_> got a food processor?
07:23 < genehacker_> if yes, then you can convert it to a centrifuge
07:23 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:23 < kanzure> what is a "food processor"?
07:23 < kanzure> is this a stomach?
07:23 < genehacker_> no
07:23 < genehacker_> blender
07:23 < kanzure> 'Single-Step Purification of Recombinant Thermus aquaticus DNA Polymerase Using DNA-Aptamer Immobilized Novel Affinity Magnetic Beads'
07:23 -!- any03530334 [n=someone@75-120-47-204.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:24 < genehacker_> AWESOME
07:24 < genehacker_> now find if you can do that for other things
07:27 -!- any25057385 [n=someone@75-120-18-137.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:33 -!- any39198290 [n=someone@99-194-252-204.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:35 -!- any62741611 [n=someone@99-195-185-37.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:39 -!- any06843477 [n=someone@99.195.186.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:48 < kanzure> aptamer affinity chromatography was common I thought?
07:51 -!- any03530334 [n=someone@75-120-47-204.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:15 < kanzure> haha: http://www.freewebs.com/democratictranshumanists/
08:17 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/protein-purification/notes.txt
08:19 < kanzure> see 'Logical combinations of chromatographic steps'
08:20 -!- genehacker_ [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-141-222.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:24 < kanzure> http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=12511#pid157544 some notes on chromatography that I have posted
08:25 -!- elias` [n=c@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"]
08:32 < kanzure>  not sure what this is yet: http://www.hathitrust.org/
09:08 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE2BCE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:55 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE2BCE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
10:37 -!- elias` [n=c@host86-145-40-174.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:41 -!- Smari [n=spm@nmi-gw.eyjar.is] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
10:41 -!- spm_ [n=spm@nmi-gw.eyjar.is] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:41 -!- spm_ is now known as Smari
10:46 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@w-central-233-27.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Mon Jul 13 11:05:59 2009
--- Log opened Mon Jul 13 11:06:04 2009
11:06 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:06 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 19 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normal]
11:07 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 90 secs
11:17 -!- any39198290 is now known as katsmeow-afk
11:23 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@w-central-233-27.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:35 < kanzure> missed "dehumidification" in the separations process list
11:37 < kanzure> FractalGee - A Twisted State of Mind
--- Log opened Mon Jul 13 12:03:45 2009
12:03 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:03 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 18 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 18 normal]
12:03 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 1 secs
13:08 < kanzure> http://www.pythonocc.org/wiki/index.php?title=Installing_pythonOCC_on_Linux
13:11 < kanzure> Debs are available for squeeze and above (lenny uses v6.2.7, which is too old). You can install them by entering: 
13:11 < kanzure> from http://www.pythonocc.org/wiki/index.php/Installing_OpenCASCADE_on_Linux
13:27 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:59 < kanzure> compatibility_equations.cs only covers the following cases: motor & shaft, motor & battery, shaft & gear, shaft & pulley, bearing & shaft
15:05 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/2007-05-04_manasi_tamhankar.zip
15:05 < kanzure> or possibly:
15:05 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/2007-05-04_manasi_tamhankar.zip
15:05 < kanzure> yeah the second one
15:22 < fenn> note to whoever, dont try reading the manasi code unless you're looking for laughs/hopelessness
15:23 < fenn> kanzure: here's some inspiration i guess
15:25 < fenn> oops i forgot the link
15:25 < fenn> http://emergent.unpy.net/01210216375
15:25 < fenn> this is cool too http://emergent.unpy.net/01218769184
15:34 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.211.175] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:37 < fenn> if you want to warp your brain inside out http://fennetic.net/irc/encoder-panelized.ps
15:49 -!- splicer [n=patrik@h189n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:51 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit []
15:54 < fenn> sorry ybit i'm not going to scan 'computerized manufacturing process planning systems'
17:10 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:12 < ybit> http://bayimg.com/CAcCBAACI
18:13 < ybit> skdb.freefab.org works fine
18:13 < ybit> fenn: that's fine, i've got it coming in through an interlibrary loan and i'll scan it
18:14 < ybit> manufacturing reference guide is coming in too
18:14  * ybit is slightly frustrated 
18:15 < ybit> i was told by someone i kind of look to as a father figure not to talk geek to girls unless i want to be single for the rest of my life
18:15 < ybit> there are plenty of hot geeky girls, and i see no reason to 'dumb it down' as he says
18:16 < kanzure> are there any hot geeky girls in here?
18:16 < ybit> if i happen to have a partner later in life, then, they will probably be somewhat intelligent (subjectively speaking) and interested in similar subjects
18:17 < ybit> there are plenty of hot girls at the science building at una
18:17 < ybit> that have similar interests, anywho
18:17 < ybit> there's katsmeow-afk, think that's the only girl in this channel
18:17 < ybit> never met her
18:18 < kanzure> you guys are lame. can''t even be hot geeky girls.
18:18 < ybit> no offense kanzure, if i meet a girl, i hope she doesn't look like you, with the beard and whatnot :P
18:19 < kanzure> sounds like a good plan to me
18:19 < ybit> so, i had some insightful thinking last night while i couldn't sleep..
18:19 < ybit> 'insightful'
18:20 < ybit> probably about as insightful as when someone has a revelation while high
18:20 < kanzure> not sure I want to hear about your fantasies
18:20 < ybit> btw
18:20 < kanzure> hehe
18:21 < ybit> kanzure: you can deal with fenn's robot pr0n but you don't want to listen to my random thoughts at night 
18:21 < kanzure> ?
18:21 < kanzure> robot pr0n?
18:21 < ybit> ..can't blame you, robot pr0n is hot
18:21 < kanzure> hell yeah
18:21 < ybit> 'how they make it'
18:21 < ybit> on the discovery or science channel, i forget
18:21 < kanzure> anyway, what's on your mind?
18:23 < ybit> right, so i contacted the county health department today and they said that there shouldn't be a problem with a biochem lab @ my house, they were just concerned if i happen to be releasing toxins from the house, how much. then i called the city's building department and they had never heard of such a thing either, and said there weren't any regulations in place. so i'm probably going to be dealing with national gov. 
18:23 < kanzure> so how is that insightful?
18:23 < ybit> just don't want the cops being suspicious
18:23 < ybit> that's not from last night
18:23 < ybit> just thought you and others might have some thoughts
18:23 < ybit> feedback
18:24 < kanzure> one thing that I would recommend is a big fucking manual/book of all of your experiments so that if hazmat teams find you dead holding a vile of some shit, they might know what to do
18:24 < kanzure> (I'm serious)
18:25 < ybit> so what's on my mind, i'm looking into creating my own veneers, curious what frequency the body operates at, and..
18:25 < ybit> argh, doorbell
18:25 < ybit> bah, probably kids selling stuff for school, "i'm poor! get off my lawn before i call the cops!"
18:26 < ybit> anywho, as a transhuman, will i be thinking in binary..?
18:26 < kanzure> try trhowing empty beer bottles
18:27 < kanzure> um? what are you currently thinking in?
18:27 < ybit> maybe the equivalent of an open source movement for singularity is sharing conscious thought?
18:27 < ybit> ..with others, or just ideas?..
18:28 < kanzure> sounds a lot like the old cyborg communes
18:28 < ybit> "how much are we willing to presever, being a small part of of many parts is human after all (sharing body with bacteria, e.g.)
18:28 < ybit> thinking of sending an email to some transhumanist email group asking people to name 10 things they would do if they suddenly have an infinite lifespain
18:29 < kanzure> you won't be getting any interesting responses
18:29 < kanzure> there was once a story about a man who lived forever and decided to meet everyone face-to-face
18:29 < kanzure> oh, that was douglas adams
18:29 < kanzure> so anyway, there you go
18:29 < ybit> "what are the limits of the universe, i think that's the singularity. the point at which we are unsure of what will happen."
18:29  * kanzure makes food
18:31 < kanzure> ybit: have you read neverness yet?
18:31 < kanzure> i strongly suspect that transhumanism isn't going to be about single lifespans that last forever into the future. while that would be nice, I'm not going to rely on it- and if it does happen, then that's good
18:32 < kanzure> there are some thoughts somewhere on the internet about how to do cloning and how to make sure that the clone gorws up to be mostly you
18:32 < kanzure> in the sense that any clone could be "you"
18:32 < ybit> "my hypothesis on love, it's a genetic survival instinct, all three parts of it. attachment/long term caring is just in case we ourselves don't survive, we would like to see ideal genes, those that are similar to our own live on and thrive. lust, simply to replicate and survive. romance or to romanticize something is to make us feel good about something so that we think there's something worth carrying on for, that there is progress to made or is being
18:32 < kanzure> and to some extent I am interested in that sort of tweaking to get various parameters just right for these interesting brains
18:32 < ybit> kanzure: no i haven't read neverness yet
18:32 < kanzure> well you're a slacker :p
18:32 < ybit> i'll respond to your thoughts when i get through typing the rest of my text from last night..
18:32 < kanzure> gah, text
18:33 < ybit> simple thought: "money is a mechanism for distributing resources, metacurrency attempts to make the process more efficient."
18:33 < kanzure> the kernel doesn't need money though
18:34 < ybit> "critical thinking is a method for discovering or understanding how something works. 'how does it work', but what are the underlying molecular processes taking place during this critical thinking?"
18:34 < ybit> 'these genetic mechanism are often hidden under many layers and are often never realized by the person."
18:34 < kanzure> it's more about sensemaking. the molecular processes aren't discovering platonic truths.. they are just making things make sense.
18:36 < ybit> "our genes are constantly storing and retrieving info. this never ending genetic cycle of mystery and discovery. notice two categories always, i'm thinking in binary and not even noticing typically (unless high). what are the mathematics involved, maybe our brains are fundamentally limited by the math which are bodies use. what molecular processes does calculations? how efficient would would another base be?
18:37 < ybit> "
18:37 < ybit> 'the body is a complex system by which recursive binary operations are observable. what mathematical system are we not observing?"
18:37 < ybit> and that's it
18:38 < ybit> my vocab was limited last night it seemed
18:38 < ybit> s/seemed/seems
18:38 < ybit>  a big fucking manual/book of all of your experiments, aka a log book?
18:39 < ybit> 23:22 < kanzure> um? what are you currently thinking in?
18:39 < ybit> good question
18:40 < ybit> 23:28 < kanzure> the kernel doesn't need money though
18:40 < ybit> point taken
18:41 < ybit> was thinking about flows and decided to write something on money
18:41 < ybit> of course i don't plan on just having one copy of myself for the eternity
18:41 < ybit> as soon as i realize how to make clones of myself, i'm doing it
18:41 < ybit> the body i'm using right now could be just a bot of a larger system of me
18:42 < ybit> i could 1k+ of these bots
18:42 < ybit> disposable and not highly important if the body is rendered unfunctional if there is a shared concious and plenty of backups
18:43 < kanzure> I don't know what conciousness is.
18:43 < kanzure> so I don't think that will work
18:43 < ybit> conciousness to me = memories and sensory data
18:44 < kanzure> that doesn't help if you're interested in building
18:44 < ybit> andy maybe some sense of continuity
18:46 < ybit> whatever that is supposed to mean
18:52 < ybit> for obvious reasons, it's difficult to predict the unknown limits of our universe. i won't say impossibly because i've been conditioned to not think that way
18:52 < ybit> s/impossibly/impossible
18:53 < ybit> and i think i was trying to convince myself that maybe we were only see a two dimensions of the entire mathematical universe
18:53 < ybit> if only our bodies wouldn't caculate in binary, we might be able to see it
18:54 < ybit> baloney maybe, but it's where this mind of mine was while attempting to sleep
18:59 < splicer> i was listening to daniel dennett one night when I was about to sleep. He has thought a lot about the "What are we" questions... if we have free will is one of them.
19:00 < splicer> The thing he said that has had me thinking the last 2 weeks was about memes..
19:01 < splicer> when dawkins invented/discovered them he defined them as ideas under the laws of natural selection... 
19:02 < kanzure> everything is under the law of natural selection. there is no thing in this universe that is not natural. but yes, that's what memes were about originally.
19:03 < splicer> what dennett  did was point out that for humans they and genes both decide our actions...  ideas have survival mechanisms too and sometimes they survive by killing the carrier.
19:04 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.211.175] has left #hplusroadmap ["Konversation terminated!"]
19:04 < splicer> so far ok... and the he unified genes and memes.. pointing out that genes are units of information regadless of format... and that they therefore are the same thing as a meme.
19:05 < splicer> ...so it's all memes... and the laws of natural selection.
19:09 < ybit> s/memes/information
19:09 < ybit> and it seems our genes are quite aware of survival 
19:10 < splicer> not really.. we love to die for ideas
19:10 < ybit> "[luf-team] Alternative Methods for Reaching Outer Space (Was Re: The International Open Spa"
19:10 < ybit> when was it ever international open spa :P
19:11  * ybit originally created the topic not based on any previous post
19:11 < ybit> s/post/thread
19:15 < kanzure> meredith totally dropped the gaunlet
19:15 < kanzure> *gauntlet
19:23 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit []
19:40 < splicer> is she known to piss in cheerios?
19:47 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:47 < xp_prg> kanzure you here?
19:48 < kanzure> yes
19:48 < kanzure> splicer: what is pissing in cheerios?
19:49 < xp_prg> kanzure there is trouble in paradise with the chief people of the diybio community and yourself
19:49 < xp_prg> are you aware of this?
19:49 < kanzure> is there?
19:49 < bkero> ??
19:49 < kanzure> why?
19:49 < kanzure> no
19:49 < bkero> Was this about that manifesto that Kanzure wrote?
19:49 < kanzure>  woah, don't tell me it was the manifesto
19:49 < bkero> Hehe
19:49 < bkero> Merely speculation
19:49 < xp_prg> because they feel there is too much noise on the mailing list
19:50 < kanzure> can I blame bkero if it's the manifesto?
19:50 < kanzure> noise?
19:50 < xp_prg> that is why they are finding alternative ways to post and stuff
19:50 < kanzure> like what?
19:50 < xp_prg> they would prefer a way to screen out those who are actually doing real work, not just talking about real work if you will
19:51 < kanzure> yeah that's what I'm building
19:51 < kanzure> that's what skdb is about
19:51 < xp_prg> I don't know if they are willing to wait that long
19:51 < xp_prg> anyway, just thought you should know
19:51 < kanzure> to wait?
19:51 < kanzure> why do they have to wait?
19:52 < xp_prg> cuz it is not completed irght?
19:52 < kanzure> there are aspects that are working
19:52 < kanzure> but yeah there is still work to be done
19:52 < kanzure> they shouldn't expect me to just be able to press a single key and finish everything ever
19:52 < kanzure> that's way too much to ask of me
19:53 < xp_prg> they feel your questions are not helpful/useful and feel very discouraged to post
19:53 < kanzure> who is "they"?
19:54 < kanzure> do they even understand me?
19:54 < xp_prg> I will get in trouble if I say but they are at the top
19:54 < kanzure> the top of what?
19:55 < splicer> kanzure: Take the hint
19:55 < xp_prg> the top of the diybio community
19:55 < kanzure> there is no top
19:56 < xp_prg> there are those that have igem experience etc.., those are defininetely better than me
19:56 < QuantumG> its diy all the way down
19:56 < kanzure> igem experience isn't diy
19:56 < xp_prg> do you want any advice from me how to fix things?
19:56 < kanzure> no, I want you to knock some sense into mac
19:56 < QuantumG> igem = let amateurs play with million dollar wet labs
19:57 < kanzure> they don't see mto understand how to run an open source project
19:57 < kanzure> richard stallman would be most displeased
19:57 < QuantumG> not that there's anything wrong with that
19:57 < xp_prg> kanzure I am on your side if you will
19:57 < xp_prg> just telling you of the issues regardless
19:57 < kanzure> QuantumG: they claim to be an open source project
19:57 < kanzure> but it's totally bullshit because they don't even know about open source tools
19:58 < kanzure> so they think I'm sorme sort of noise generator on the list
19:58 < xp_prg> I don't get along with them either :)
19:58 < kanzure> even though it's the whole fucking point to use open source software
19:58 < QuantumG> what?  igem?
19:58 < xp_prg> kanzure have you thought about just creating your own list?
19:58 < splicer> Kanzure: If I understand this it's about you having opinios about absolutely everything always... 
19:58 < QuantumG> they're all about open parts.. where open == we promise not to sue certain people
19:58 < kanzure> xp_prg: why would I do that
19:58 < kanzure> QuantumG: no, diybio
19:59 < QuantumG> oh
19:59 < kanzure> splicer: no, the problem is that they don't understand me
19:59 < xp_prg> well people feel suffocated
19:59 < xp_prg> afraid to post
19:59 < kanzure> why is that?
19:59 < xp_prg> you rip people a new one quite readily
19:59 < kanzure> no I don't
19:59 < kanzure> only when t
19:59 < xp_prg> you overwhelm them with your opinions and conjecture
19:59 < splicer> kanzure: You don't understand them... they someone wants to say something but as soon as he/she says it you are there.
20:00 < kanzure> so what?
20:00 < xp_prg> you don't let me simply have a topic and make points
20:00 < kanzure> ithat shouldn't even matter
20:00 < kanzure> they should just get to work
20:00 < xp_prg> let them I meant
20:00 < kanzure> if they want to write opinions, then they should write opinions
20:00 < xp_prg> anyway, do what you will, just thought you should know
20:00 < kanzure> I think there's too much top-down restriction going on there
20:01 < kanzure> maybe they need to go work on other open source projects first
20:01 < xp_prg> on the whole I appreciate your contribution, I would faint and die if you would be more open to other posts and not overwhelm them when they post
20:01 < kanzure> I am open to their posts
20:01 < xp_prg> you shut people down man
20:02 < kanzure> it's not like I threaten to kill them
20:02 < splicer> but you turn it into the kanzure show
20:02 < kanzure> what?
20:02 < xp_prg> hahahah
20:03 < xp_prg> kanzure people feel overwhelmed man
20:03 < xp_prg> just letting you know
20:03 < kanzure> what does that have to do with "shut people down man"
20:03 < xp_prg> you can ignore it but it is a community, I would listen if I were you
20:03 < kanzure> why don't they listen to me
20:03 < xp_prg> cuz there is too much to hear
20:03 < xp_prg> their ears are only so big
20:03 < kanzure> bullshit
20:04 < splicer> Ask people
20:04 < xp_prg> kanzure I like you please don't get me wrong, but people are now making alternative means to discuss diybio because of you
20:05 < kanzure> what's wrong with discussing diybio now?
20:06 < splicer> If everyone wrote like you what you did would be fine
20:06 < xp_prg> kanzure if you were on the list would it be easy to figure out who is actually doing real projects and who is not?
20:06 < kanzure> yeah
20:06 < kanzure> you just send me the projects and I package them up for you
20:06 < kanzure> what's so hard about that
20:06 < xp_prg> well people don't think so
20:07 < kanzure> don't think what?
20:07 < kanzure> that the packaging idea dworks?
20:07 < kanzure> there's tons of evidence
20:07 < xp_prg> kanzure I don't know what else to tell you did the best I could to warn you, hope you can think about it more
20:07 < kanzure> warn me?
20:07 < kanzure> warn me of what?
20:08 < kanzure> is there some conspiracy against open source diybio?
20:08 < xp_prg> no you
20:08 < kanzure> why would they do that if I'm one of the only guys working on open source diybio
20:08 < kanzure> I haven't really seen any indication that they know about these tools
20:08 < kanzure> or that they use them or anything like that
20:08 < xp_prg> cuz nobody feels like they have any breathing room around you
20:09 < xp_prg> they feel suffocated by your opinions etc...
20:09 < xp_prg> anyway, it would be great if you made a concious effort to let others speak freely and without ambushing them
20:10 < kanzure> if you could show me how I ambush people
20:10 < kanzure> that would be great
20:10 < xp_prg> the latest response to mac
20:10 < kanzure> what about it?
20:10 < xp_prg> how many total questions did you ask?
20:10 < kanzure> what does it matter?
20:10 < xp_prg> *sigh*
20:10 < kanzure> let's say n=50
20:11 < xp_prg> that about 47 too many
20:11 < kanzure> um, so I should send 20 emails of 2 or 3 questions each?
20:11 < kanzure> that's totally retarded
20:11 < kanzure> if he has to take a break in replying to it, he should respond three questions at a time
20:11 < kanzure> it's not like that's illegal
20:11 < splicer> kanzure: You really don't understand the "Don't suffocate" comment?
20:12 < xp_prg> no you should only ask 2 -3 questions total
20:12 < kanzure> um, why?
20:12 < kanzure> did the Great Mac not have enough time to answer my lowly questions?
20:12 < xp_prg> because it makes people feel suffocated man
20:12 < xp_prg> ya he doesn't have enough time
20:12 < kanzure> questions make them feel suffocated?
20:12 < kanzure> wtf
20:12 < kanzure> not enough time?
20:12 < kanzure> then why is he running a group
20:12 < xp_prg> out of the goodness of his heart?
20:13 < xp_prg> he has talked of quitting if you will
20:13 < kanzure> but he's doing more damage than good
20:13 < kanzure> oh really?
20:13 < kanzure> why's that?
20:13 < kanzure> or I mean, when did that come up
20:13 < xp_prg> I can't discuss more than that
20:13 < xp_prg> probably said too much already
20:14 < kanzure> this is all so secretive
20:14 < xp_prg> kanzure encourage people to collaborate, to express their opinions
20:14 < kanzure> what needs to be secretive about this?
20:14 < kanzure> yueah, there are tools that they can use to collaborate
20:14 < xp_prg> cuz it is a community and they are not jiving to your ways
20:14 < kanzure> my ways?
20:14 < kanzure> these aren't my ways..
20:15 < kanzure> these are the general open source tools and methods.. that's what I keepp telling them.
20:15 < xp_prg> kanzure study how linus tivolds runs an opensource project
20:15 < kanzure> with git
20:15 < xp_prg> there is natural leadership to a community
20:15 < xp_prg> your "not" the leader
20:15 < kanzure> yeah because he commits code
20:15 < xp_prg> ask yourself who is
20:15 < xp_prg> its a meritocracy
20:15 < kanzure> um, why?
20:15 < xp_prg> those who do things, not just talk about doing things
20:16 < kanzure> what does that have to do with a meritocracy?
20:16 < xp_prg> meritocracy means those who do more than others get more say
20:16 < kanzure> but that's a relative measure 
20:16 < splicer> kanzure: I don't think you're gonna understand this today
20:16 < xp_prg> it is measured by the community
20:16 < kanzure> splicer: I think they are wrong.
20:17 < kanzure> splicer: Mac has been out to get me for a while now.
20:17 < kanzure> ever since I fucked up that public speech
20:17 < kanzure> he just hasn't forgiven me
20:17 < splicer> I know... but there is something in front of you that you clearly don't undestand
20:17 < xp_prg> what did you do?!
20:17 < kanzure> I made a really terrible presentation at biobarcamp
20:17 < kanzure> wasn't prepared for it
20:17 < kanzure> he was in the audience
20:17 < xp_prg> what happened exactly?
20:17 < kanzure> he and others just walked out
20:17 < kanzure> they just decided to leave..
20:17 < kanzure> which is acceptable, since I wasn't prepared
20:17 < kanzure> but that's no reason to hold a grudge against me
20:18 < splicer> kanzure: that's not it
20:18 < kanzure> then I give up
20:18 < kanzure> I've explained things to them so many times by now
20:18 < xp_prg> kanzure lets say you want to post to a list and someone asks you 100 questions every time
20:18 < kanzure> I'll answer them.
20:18 < xp_prg> does that make you want to post more or less?
20:18 < kanzure> that's what lists are for .. for discussing.
20:19 < xp_prg> for most people the answer is less
20:19 < kanzure> maybe they should pick and choose which questions to reply to
20:19 < splicer> maybe they shouldn't have to
20:19 < kanzure> maybe they don't want to be involved
20:20 < xp_prg> kanzure they do want to be invovled, they feel attacked by you
20:20 < splicer> maybe they do but don't want to spend time humoring you
20:20 < kanzure> why would they be humoring me
20:20 < kanzure> xp_prg: they shouldn't though. I try to be helpful with my links to tutorials, howtos, explanations, etc.
20:20 < kanzure> it should be very approachable.
20:21 < xp_prg> kanzure you are helpful kanzure but your overly helpful if you will, people can't seem to help anyone else
20:21 < kanzure> people can't seem to help anyone else?
20:22 < xp_prg> imagine we are digging a whole, we all have shovels but your in the middle shoveling so fast that nobody gets a chance to use their shovel
20:22 < xp_prg> hole = whole
20:22 < kanzure> there are ways to dig a hole with multiple people involved
20:22 < kanzure> that's what open source collaboration tools allow for
20:22 < kanzure> that's why they exist
20:22 < kanzure> they fix this problem
20:23 < xp_prg> kanzure study opensource projects study what leadership is
20:23 < splicer> the kanzure show is not a collaboration
20:23 < xp_prg> if a vote was made today would you be the leader?
20:23 < xp_prg> if so why not?
20:23 < kanzure> xp_prg: I have trouble believing you know about programming.
20:23 < splicer> it's you telling people what to do
20:23 < kanzure> xp_prg: why would I be the leader?
20:23 < kanzure> I shouldn't be the leader
20:23 < xp_prg> kanzure, you don't let the leader lead
20:23 < kanzure> splicer: do you know about version control?
20:24 < kanzure> xp_prg: the leader doesn't lead anyway
20:24 < xp_prg> yes they do
20:24 < splicer> something
20:24 < kanzure> xp_prg: how? what have they done
20:24 < kanzure> splicer: what?
20:24 < ybit> splicer: who are you exactly?
20:24 < kanzure> hah
20:24 < xp_prg> created biobricks and stuff
20:24 < splicer> i know something about version control
20:24 < kanzure> xp_prg: that's not diy
20:24 < kanzure> splicer: okay, neat.
20:24 < ybit> tyler durden
20:24 < kanzure> ybit: ?
20:25 < ybit> just trying to figure out who splicer is, that's all
20:25 < splicer> ybit: not sure I understand the question
20:26 < ybit> splicer: didn't know your real name until a whois
20:26 < splicer> yes, it's there
20:26 < ybit> i don't feel overwhelmed at all, sorry others feel that way
20:26 < splicer> but do you understand the others?
20:27 < ybit> the diybio activity level is so low in general, why complain about the little activity that's already there, it isn't preventing others from getting involved. others can make any excuse they want
20:27 < xp_prg> ybit that is why it is low
20:28 < kanzure> it is low because it is low?
20:28 < xp_prg> it wouldn't be so low if people didn't feel overwhelmed by kanzure all the time
20:28 < ybit> xp_prg: ?
20:28 < xp_prg> what is so hard to understand how people don't want to post to have someone ask them 50 questions every time?
20:29 < ybit> splicer: do i understand the others? i mostly get the feeling others just want to be alerted where there is a completed project, and simply don't want to discuss all topics
20:29 < kanzure> that's what the announce list is for
20:29 < kanzure> but they don't use it for some reason
20:29 < ybit> 'others' being those whom are silent and don't contribute much
20:29 < ybit> if any
20:30 < splicer> the same thing that's happening here happens on the board often....
20:30 < ybit> explain
20:30 < splicer> there are 2 people trying to explain something "People feel you suffocate the discussion"... but there is no way to explain it.
20:31 < kanzure> because it's bullshit
20:31 < splicer> no it's not
20:31 < kanzure> then why is there no way to explain it?
20:31 < ybit> just use filters and stop complaining please
20:31 < splicer> it's like when i was trying to explain to you for 30 min that you had written about brainuploading.. remember... you were, but there was no way to explin it to you.
20:32 < kanzure> ybit: heh
20:33 -!- katy [n=katy@dhcp-128-83-195-124.biosci.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:35 < ybit> http://www.uazu.net/sbagen/
20:36  * ybit plans on testing this in a little bit
20:36 < ybit> SBaGen -- Binaural Beat Brain Wave Experimenter's Lab
20:36 < ybit> kanzure: you had linked to it from some writing
20:36 < ybit> way back when
20:36 < kanzure> I haven't been impressed with the binaural beat stuff. tell me how it goes I guess.
20:37 < ybit> hi katy
20:37 < katy> hello ybit
20:37 < ybit> katy: how's things? why are you? what do you want? :P
20:37 < ybit> s/why/who
20:38 < ybit> katsmeow-afk using another nick?
20:40 < katy> long day. just watching.
20:42 < kanzure> http://www.technologyreview.com/biomedicine/22980/
20:42 < kanzure> bicycle pump to extract dna? hm.
20:42 < kanzure> "extracts genetic material from blood and other bodily fluids by pumping fluid through a polymer-lined straw designed to trap DNA"
20:44 < splicer> isn't the container kind of big?
20:44 < kanzure> hey katy
20:45 < kanzure> well it links over to http://web.mac.com/catherineklapperich/Site/Home.html which talks about microfluidics
20:45 < kanzure> http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/Klapperich_Lab
20:45 < kanzure> hm they say they support openwetware
20:45 < kanzure> but they seem to say the site more than anything
20:45 < kanzure> unless I see some schematics for this device on the next page :p
20:46 < kanzure> #  Bhattacharyya A and Klapperich CM. Thermoplastic microfluidic device for on-chip purification of nucleic acids for disposable diagnostics. Anal Chem 2006 Feb 1; 78(3) 788-92. doi:10.1021/ac051449j pmid:16448052. PubMed HubMed [paper2] 
20:47 < kanzure> http://www.hubmed.org/display.cgi?uids=16448052
20:47 < kanzure> "solid-phase extraction" (SPE)
20:47 < kanzure> "The solid phase consisted of a porous monolithic polymer column impregnated with silica particles. The extraction was achieved due to the binding of nucleic acids to the silica particles in the monolith. The solid phase was formed within the channels of the device by in situ photoinitiated polymerization of a mixture of methacrylate and dimethacrylate monomers, UV-sensitive free-radical initiator, and porogenic solvents. The channel surfaces were pretreated via photografting to covalently attach the monolith to the channel walls. The solid phase prepared by this method allowed for successful extraction and elution of nucleic acids in the polymeric microchip."
20:50 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Thermoplastic%20microfluidic%20device%20for%20on-chip%20purification%20of%20nucleic%20acids%20for%20disposable%20diagnostics.pdf
20:50 < kanzure> there's the paper
20:58 < ybit> http://www.soundonmind.com/binauralbeats
21:05 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
21:08 < kanzure> ybit: care for a game of typespeed?
21:11 < ybit> kanzure: installing now
21:12 < kanzure> space and/or enter both work
21:16 < ybit> kanzure: alright, let's do it
21:16 < kanzure> server name is heybryan.org
21:17 < kanzure> or just use the ip address to heybryan.org
21:18 < ybit> aConnecting to typespeed server at 72.177.121.73 (port 6025)...
21:18 < kanzure> hm
21:18 < kanzure> oh the ip is wrong
21:19 < kanzure> nope
21:19 < ybit> wrong port maybe?
21:19 < ybit> maybe it's my firewall
21:19 < ybit> one sec
21:20 < kanzure> try one more time
21:20 < ybit> recv(): Connection reset by peer
21:20 < kanzure> "remote is not typespeed"
21:20 < kanzure> same thing
21:20 < kanzure> hm. don't know what's wrong.
21:20 < kanzure> I'll look into it I guess.
21:21 < ybit> that was after i removed my firewall too
21:21 < kanzure> that was after I did portforwarding too
21:21 < kanzure> it might be because of my connection. I've been dropping packets and having 4 sec ping lags to google.
21:22 < ybit> who linked to http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/ from in here?...
21:22 < kanzure> me
21:22 < ybit> not sure how i got there
21:22 < ybit> okay
21:22 < kanzure> that's jonathan cline
21:23 < ybit> aha, it was from the logs when searching for sbagen
21:23 < ybit> theodore berger never responded to my email btw
21:23 < ybit> maybe it was because i was too in awe when asking him questions
21:26 < ybit> i'm perfectly content not working in his lab now or any lab except mine
21:31 < splicer> ybit: do you know what you are going to do in the lab?
21:31 < kanzure> world domination research? please?
21:33 < bkero> ybit: You have your own lab?
21:38 < ybit> splicer: probably try to figure out where Brain went wrong in his experiments
21:39 < ybit> bkero: not yet, right now it's just a bunch of equipment for soldering
21:40 < bkero> So you have a soldering station? :)
21:40 < bkero> Or lke a soldering robot?
21:40 < ybit> bkero: yup, and it's nice
21:41 < bkero> http://www.labx.com/ has some decent cheap equipment
21:42 < ybit> here's me soldering station: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HDG0AO/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=304485901&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000I30QBW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=19P24YRM2SHPCZZ2W954
21:42 < bkero> I'm in the middle of making my own centrifuge, fume hood, and robotic mill
21:42 < bkero> Ah, a hot air
21:43 < splicer> kanzure: just looked at it, you have posted more on diybio than the four largest posters after you put together.
21:44 < ybit> splicer: so, i'd like to replicate some of the work being done in berger's lab, creating in-vivo MEAs is the eventual goal
21:44 < ybit> among others
21:45 < ybit> splicer: who cares
21:45 < ybit> it's like this with other mailing lists 
21:45 < ybit> paul does it with open manufacturing
21:45 < ybit> but unlike paul, bryan keeps his posts trimmed typically, though paul's latest haven't been terrible
21:46 < ybit> s/terrible/terribly long
21:46 < splicer> what's a MEA?
21:46 < ybit> bkero: making your own centrifuge, nice, are you replicating someone else's work?
21:47 < ybit> there have been many references on the diybio mailing list and blogs for various centrifuge setups
21:47 < ybit> one guy used a record player i believe
21:47 < ybit> splicer: multi-electrode array
21:47 < bkero> Just using the centrifuge at my old lab as a reference.
21:48 < kanzure> a record player?
21:48 < splicer> ybit: ah, cool
21:48 < bkero> But I'm using some hobby electric motors, eBay electric scooter motor controller, some nice shelled bearings from an engine
21:48 < ybit> i have a junkyard
21:48 < ybit> lol
21:48 < ybit> seriously
21:48 < bkero> I'm just trying to figure out the container
21:48 < bkero> Well, the vial holder
21:48 < ybit> you tell me what type of motor you need and i'll check to see what we have
21:49 < ybit> i was working on a hoverboard design from parts there when i was kindergarten :P
21:49 < bkero> My PSU and controller are set up for 12v 85w
21:49 < ybit> ended up just being a skateboard with a motor
21:50 -!- splicer [n=patrik@h189n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has left #hplusroadmap ["Ex-Chat"]
21:50 < bkero> Hehe
21:50 < ybit> no hovering and no anti-gravity particle surprisingly
21:50 < bkero> Not exactly hovering
21:51 -!- spicer-afk [n=patrik@h189n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:52 < bkero> Anyway, people seem to make a big deal out of them.
21:52 < bkero> Honestly, the hardest part is balancing the holder at different speeds.  If you don't get it right, they reverberate a lot.
21:53 < ybit> http://www.uva.co.uk/archives/74 
21:54  * ybit wants this for the flooring here
21:54 < bkero> Nice
21:55 < ybit> http://graffitiresearchlab.com/?page_id=76 
21:55 < ybit> would like to do that as well for the fun of it, will of course have to speak with some city reps again
21:56 < ybit> labx bookmarked
21:56 < bkero> I have a wiimote whiteboard set up on my wall :)
21:56 < ybit> nice :)
21:57 < bkero> but I'm not using it as a whiteboard
21:57 < bkero> I'm using it as the remote
21:57 < bkero> I have a projector set up with a wiimote camera pointed at it
21:57 < bkero> I have boxee(an xbox media centre derivative) running, and use a laser pointer as a pointer. :)
21:59 < ybit> nothing exciting really about the grafitti laser pointer device, just a good excuse to have fun afk
22:00 < kanzure> don't forget the hard drive + laser pointer device for a writer :)
22:00 < kanzure> hard drive + laser pointer + piezo or something.
22:00 < kanzure> er, wait, the hard drive version used the hard drive arm to manipulate a mirror which the laser shined on
22:00 < bkero> Heh
22:03 < ybit> btw, i think diybio is too limited
22:03 < bkero> Some amusing things I saw at DefCon last year included a projector with a camera.  The camera followed a laser pointer and showed a trail on the projector, which dripped
22:04 < ybit> to bio
22:04 < ybit> hence diysci.org
22:04 < ybit> who knows what will come of that, but i kind of have an idea of just collecting all the diy-research being done on the web and posting it there
22:04 < bkero> At what point does something stop being DIY?
22:05 < bkero> When it moves out of a garage?  When it's sponsored?
22:05 < QuantumG> when you stop doing it yourself
22:05 < QuantumG> duh
22:05 < ybit> :P
22:05 < bkero> Does that count lab assistants?
22:05 < ybit> when you can't get access to the schematics probably
22:05 < ybit> or source files
22:05 < bkero> So it's open source science then?
22:06 < ybit> i suppose diy doesn't imply that
22:06 < ybit> but it's how i view it
22:06 < ybit> diy/open to everyone
22:06 < bkero> Are there any creative commons licenses that are specific to scientific research?
22:07 < ybit> i haven't searched
22:08 < ybit> bkero: i know Joseph Jackson is part of some open science journal movement, i'm sure there's something on the site if i can find a link
22:09 < bkero> ybit: ping dberkholz on freenode, he does a lot of open source science, he's the guy behind pgd
22:09 < ybit> Preimplantation genetic diagnosis?
22:09 < bkero> http://pgd.osuosl.org/
22:10 < ybit> ah
22:11 < ybit> i see he's sane too (he uses gentoo :)
22:11 < QuantumG> ricer
22:11 < ybit> :P
22:12 < ybit> http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/ricer-17803.jpg
22:12 < bkero> QuantumG: He's on the gentoo and X council
22:12 < bkero> We use gentoo professionally on hundreds of lab computers
22:12 < QuantumG> dyi auto
22:13 < bkero> In fact, the IRC server you're connected to right now is running gentoo using our configuration management system. ;)
22:14 < QuantumG> gentoo users are emos.. 
22:14 < QuantumG> they like to be on the cutting edge
22:14 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
22:14 < bkero> QuantumG: I can compile packages faster than Ubuntu admins can compile and distribute them for you ;)
22:15 < bkero> But this isn't a channel for that kind of debate.  Just know that the server you're connected to right now is running gentoo.
22:15 < QuantumG> I'll know when it goes down.  :)
22:15 < bkero> bkero@fir ~ $ uptime 03:13:12 up 1000 days,  9:40, 51 users,  load average: 2.45, 1.22, 0.60
22:16 < bkero> You'll be waiting a while.
22:16 < kanzure> this is, in fact, the right channel for that debate.
22:16 < QuantumG> wow, that irc server can't be too cutting edge then
22:17 < QuantumG> you might as well have installed it from a package.
22:17 < bkero> QuantumG: You have no idea how patched the ircd's on freenode are.
22:17 < bkero> They basically rewrote half of it
22:17 < kanzure> bkero: there is no creative commons licenses for scientific research. there's also nothing for open source hardware, really. patents kind of fuck us.
22:17 < bkero> kanzure: That's big horse shit
22:18 < bkero> There's plenty of artistic coverage in the creative commons, because the creative commons is mostly formed around cultural materials, but scientific research is somewhat of new territory for it.
22:18 < QuantumG> I thought there was a whole lot of licenses with patent dedication requirement clauses
22:18 < kanzure> the open access people do creative commons licensing of their papers
22:18 < kanzure> but that doesn't matter
22:18 < QuantumG> and people moan about them because they're no compatible with the GPL, etc
22:18 < kanzure> the data and source code and schematics are more important
22:18 < kanzure> I mean, I like the open access literature- it's great
22:18 < kanzure> but that doesn't do the trick IMHO
22:19 < kanzure> bkero: see sciencecommons.org
22:19 < kanzure> but they don't do hardware for some reason
22:19 < kanzure> blah
22:19 < bkero> kanzure: I forgot about the science commons.  I have a science commons sticker on my old media centre case :)
22:19 < kanzure> heh
22:19 < bkero> Shot the shit with them at OSCON last year.
22:19 < kanzure> I met them at biobarcamp
22:19 < kanzure> which was odd because the person I met was some really young, beautiful woman
22:19 < bkero> They moved OSCON from Portland to SJ this year. :/
22:19 < kanzure> and it turns out her partner had previously collaborated with me
22:19 < kanzure> we were thinking of writing a paper together, for instance
22:20 < bkero> Sounds like good pickup material
22:20 < kanzure> she offered me coffee but I totally dropped the ball on that one
22:20 < bkero> You bitch :/
22:20 < kanzure> yes :(
22:20  * kanzure goes back to gundam 00
22:20 < bkero> I would kick myself in the gentleman area for a month.
22:20 < kanzure> oh, believe me.
22:20 < bkero> kanzure: Do yourself a favor and watch Eva instead. :)
22:21 < kanzure> neon genesis evangaleon?
22:21 < bkero> Aye
22:21 < kanzure> evangelion?
22:21 < kanzure> meh
22:21 < kanzure> I never got too into it.
22:21 < kanzure> always seemed to psycho-philosophical or whatever the hell the right term is
22:21 < bkero> Just get through the first 10 episodes or so
22:21 < kanzure> hah
22:21 < bkero> There's a reason it's #1 in almost all lists. :)
22:21 < kanzure> *as I said*
22:21  * kanzure goes back to gundam
22:27 < ybit> wow i'm slow, especially when it comes to women, it took me awhile to realize what coffee could mean
22:28 < ybit> guess i can't call myself a man since that's not the first thing that comes to mind
22:28 < bkero> I'm not sure that's inherently manly as it is social.
22:31 -!- QuantumG [n=qg@nuclear.biodome.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:31 -!- QuantumG [n=qg@nuclear.biodome.org] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:36 < ybit> was getting ready for nap time, speaking of 'back of the net' with the ladies, the only success i seem to have is when there are drugs involved. i haven't figured out what goes through the head of the drug-induced woman, but i'm guessing it has to go something like 'screw the whiteness/nerdiness, let's do this thing!'
22:37 < ybit> literally speaking, white skin 
22:37 < bkero> s/induced/addled/
22:38 < bkero> And that's called delusion
22:38 < kanzure> it was really for coffee I think
22:38 < bkero> Of course it would be.  Coffee and conversation. :)
22:38 < ybit> i also don't have luck because i just don't care for _that_
22:39 < kanzure> this that or the other?
22:39 < ybit> i ask a coworker of mine to go grab some coffee with me all the time, and i don't have plans of taking him home with me, i just want to chat
22:39 < ybit> him = the computer engineering grad/father figure
22:39 < bkero> Sure.
22:39 < kanzure> bkero: be nice
22:40 < ybit> :P
22:40 < bkero> i ask folks out to coffee to chat.  If the chat goes well and something happens, so be it, but it's not inherently nefarious.
22:40 < ybit> all this of _that_ makes me want to watch some robot pr0n
22:40 < bkero> ybit: Get a fake ID and rent some ultrapr0nn
22:41 < ybit> bkero: i was referring to 'how it's made" silly
22:42 < bkero> Hehe, I have those
22:48 < ybit> kanzure: toolbook is mostly for fabrication processes iirc
22:48 < ybit> yes?
22:48 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:48 < ybit> how to do this and that with certain machines
22:51 < ybit> haha, """+1, because if there's going to be a fight, then fucking have it
22:51 < ybit> already and quit carping at each other. Man up, both of you, and speak
22:51 < ybit> your minds for once."""
22:53 < ybit> if there's going to be a fight, do it in private email for tux's sake
22:54 < genehacker> ???
22:54 < ybit> diybio.org admins are useless it seems, the suggestions have been made over and over and yet they don't implement
22:55 < ybit> i should speak up but i don't want to waste my time
22:55 < genehacker> that doesn't surprise me
22:55 < bkero> Did someone call for an administrator?
22:55  * bkero is superadmin.
22:56 < ybit> heh, a gentoo admin with actual experience, that would be nice
22:56 < ybit> feel free to admin diysci.org ;)
22:56 < ybit> anywho, i was thinking toolbook would be part of freefab.org, kanzure 
22:57 < ybit> but if it's going into experiments, then i would make it a part of diysci
22:58 < ybit> isn't it Smari who's working on tangible bit?
23:00 < ybit> think so
23:00  * ybit is away reading
23:10 < bkero> ybit: Sure, need hosting?
23:13 < ybit> really? yeah, that'd be great
23:13 < ybit> er, bkero 
23:14 < ybit> wait, guess that doesn't imply free
23:15  * ybit is a poor man
23:15 < bkero> It's free
23:15 < ybit> \o/
23:15 < ybit> alright, i'm there. 
23:16 < bkero> Heh
23:16 < ybit> 'sign me up', and all the other cliche sayings for accepting an offer
23:16 < ybit> my upload is terrible here
23:17 < bkero> Heh
23:17 < bkero> I'll give you an ssh account and a webroot
23:17 < ybit> great, ty
23:20 < bkero> It's set up
23:20 < ybit> bkero: PM details?
23:41 < bkero> 8)
23:41 < ybit> there's just a lot of neat dev being done with jabber
23:42 < bkero> Does it do more than IRC yet/
23:42 < bkero> ?
23:42 < ybit> logs conversations automatically
23:42 < ybit> that's +1
23:43 < bkero> The server logs conversations?
23:43 < bkero> There are a lot of channels on here that don't allow logging
23:43 < bkero> The apache channels don't allow any logging for instance.
23:44 < ybit> why not?
23:45 < bkero> A lot of the conversation that goes on there could be construed as official stances from the apache project, instead of the members opinions.
23:45 < bkero> Also it messes with companies keeping logs for things like SOX
23:46 < ybit> then there's jingle
23:46 < bkero> Google has an IRC network for all their employees, and if Legal ever found out it existed, it would be shut down instantly.
23:46 < ybit> the future of voice communication
23:46 < bkero> s/employees/engineers/
23:46 < ybit> http://xmpp.org/extensions/
23:47 < genehacker> heh
23:49 < bkero> Multi-user chat still isn't in the standard, it's a draft. ;)
23:52 < bkero> http://gizmodo.com/5313807/someone-finally-figured-out-what-a-600fps-camera-is-for