--- Day changed Wed Jul 15 2009
00:31 < bkero> http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-carnivore-win.jpg?w=500&h=272
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01:11 < katsmeow-afk> bk
01:12 < katsmeow-afk> bkero , what i been welding on lately :  http://DesignerThinking.com/images/bigboatbowmaking/DSCF1444.jpg
01:12 < bkero> Nice
01:12 < bkero> Is that a splitter or a pontoon cage?
01:13 < katsmeow-afk> boat bow
01:13 < bkero> I hate the water, but have been thinking of sailing the orinoco
01:13 < katsmeow-afk> why the Orinoco??
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01:14 < bkero> I have some friends in columbia that can set me up with some property along it with which to build a boat, and jetty
01:14 < katsmeow-afk> there be 30ft of 4ft dia round hull following that bow
01:14 < katsmeow-afk> but considering homeland security nowadays, ia m pretty sure i do not want it to resemble a submarine
01:51 < genehacker> sigh shame you can't build subs anymore
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03:39 < fenn> so i guess the omega zombies are too stupid to drive cars
03:39 < fenn> but somehow they can still talk?
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03:50 < faceface> perhaps of interest: http://www.wikifeeds.com/
03:50 < faceface> Wikifeeds is a project that aims to create pages populated with
03:50 < faceface> relevant web feeds that are updated every hour. This project is
03:50 < faceface> similar to sites like popurls® and Alltop with the difference being
03:50 < faceface> that pages can be created and updated by anyone in the world since it
03:50 < faceface> is a wiki.
03:52 < Utopiah> hi faceface 
03:53 < Utopiah> I knew AllTop but not WikiFeeds, checking
03:54 < fenn> when did building submarines become illegal?
03:55 < fenn> Drug Trafficking Vessel Interdiction Act of 2008?
03:57  * faceface excapes to the bottom of the sea
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03:58 < Utopiah> since doing anything while you are not the government or a company big enough to negociate with it became illegal? like... since being creative ~= helping terrorist with subversise technology? :|
04:59 < kanzure> fenn: hey man, it was the 70s
05:02 < fenn> sorry excuse for an NRA commercial
05:03 < fenn> "you never know when a mutant zombie horde will take over the world and you're the last man standing, but at least you'll have your trusty machine gun"
05:03 < kanzure> my original point of remembering omega man was something about the main character being this badass military scientist slash biologist slash researcher slash chemist slash physicist of some sort.
06:34 < QuantumG> he had a library
06:34 < QuantumG> and read it
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06:54 < kanzure> I had a dream where I composed a reply to paul fernhout
06:54 < kanzure> guess all that's left is for me to type it out
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07:01 < QuantumG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protonium
07:01 < QuantumG> Computed lifetimes are in the range of 0.1 to 10 microseconds.
07:02 < QuantumG> plenty of time to do heating by radio waves
07:03 < QuantumG> pretty obvious design for a permanent trap there
07:04  * kanzure used to be obsessed with magnetic optical trap designs
07:05 < QuantumG> that's the cool thing.. Protonium is a "natural" anti-matter trap
07:06 < QuantumG> just keep your Protonium hot enough so it can't deionize and its as easy to handle as hydrogen plasma
07:06 < QuantumG> in other words, not terribly easy ;)
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07:39 < kanzure> http://www.ifosslr.org/ifosslr/issue/1/showToc legalese crapola
07:40 < Smari> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqD_3KWpsTY  - yay emergence.
07:42 < QuantumG> kanzure: the Bad Facts Make Good [Whatever] article is interesting
07:45 < Smari> url?
07:46 < QuantumG> http://www.ifosslr.org/ifosslr/article/view/5
07:47 < Smari> ah
07:47 < kanzure> meh @ "peer-to-poatent"
07:47 < Smari> k
07:47 < kanzure> *peer-to-patent
07:47 < QuantumG> yeah, I haven't read it
07:47 < kanzure> eventually it would be nice to writeup how package managers would be a good alternative to the patent system
07:47 < kanzure> no, the peer-to-patent paper I mean
07:47 < QuantumG> "Bad Facts Make Good Law: The Jacobsen Case and Open Source"
07:49 < QuantumG> my summary: The EFF are a bunch of hypocrites and it seems that if you ever get sued for violating the GPL or some other open source license you should demand that the judge not give injunctive relief until the plaintiff shows fiscal harm.
07:53 < kanzure> I will give a cookie to anyone who can find me a stream of anime trance.
07:56 < fenn> thats not the easiest request in the world
08:03 < kanzure> it's a really really good cookie
08:05 < kanzure> http://go2id.net:8000/listen.pls
08:05 < kanzure> maybe?
08:06 < kanzure> found from: http://idforums.net/index.php?showtopic=36275
08:08 < kanzure> huh there's an electronica rave in austin on september 5th here in austin with a 10k~ people capacity
08:09 < fenn> i read that legal article and now i'm even more confused than when i started
08:09 < fenn> what's so "anime" about this?
08:09 < kanzure> isn't this a dub of an anime song?
08:10 < kanzure> well now it just sucks
08:17 < fenn> "As an alternative to just posting a big list of links every time someone has a question, have you considered including a quick summary, in your own words, of what is useful about a particular paper?"
08:17 < fenn> i suspect the problem there is that you have no idea what the paper actually says
08:17 < fenn> but the url sure looked promising
08:21 < kanzure> in which case?
08:21 < kanzure> urls are usually shit and don't say anything anyway when it comes to papers on the net
08:22 < kanzure> nobody gives pdf files useful titles, and most titles of papers suck too
08:23  * fenn goes a-bussing
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09:07 < kanzure> I hate how I keep on presenting myself as a "hacker" in diybio emails
09:07 < kanzure> because I'm not all that great of a hacker
09:07 < kanzure> there are many many people who are better hackers than me
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09:21 < kanzure> fenn: was there anything new that you had to do to get pythonOCC owrking? *working
09:21 < kanzure> other than what you originally did
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09:53 < kanzure> holy shit I like whatever's playing
09:53 < fenn> william heath and techshop.. talk about an unholy alliance
09:55 < kanzure> oh good god
09:55 < kanzure> wonder if he will be using the laser cutter
09:56 < fenn> thi ss the latest procedure for compiling pythonOCC, as far as i know: http://pastebin.ca/1495848
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09:57 < fenn> i think thwat was using the svn
09:59 < kanzure> bah it says that none of my includes exist. but that's not true at all... 
09:59 < fenn> um, also i'm using the opennovation packages
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10:00 < fenn> i hope that doesnt matter though
10:01 < kanzure> meredith forked pydjangitwiki.. is making a graph visualizer/graphviz-SVG plugin thingy
10:01 < fenn> that shoulnd t be too hard
10:01 < kanzure> right :)
10:02 < kanzure> she claims she will come into the channel when she gets some sleep
10:02 < fenn> can we please change the name before it gets out of control?
10:02 < kanzure> hah
10:03 < kanzure> you wanted djangit?
10:03 < fenn> ya
10:03 < fenn> minimum redundancy
10:04 < fenn> and it's almost a pun, sorta
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10:05 < kanzure> fenn: github.com claims that they will not setup any redirects from the olod name, and old links etc.
10:05 < kanzure> *old name
10:05 < kanzure> should I break it?
10:05 < fenn> can't you just make a new project?
10:05 < fenn> and clone the old one
10:05 < kanzure> okay
10:06 < kanzure> how do I do that?
10:06 < kanzure> git clone makes a directory 
10:06 < kanzure> do I just move all of the contents into the parent dir then if I'm in djangit/
10:06 < kanzure> ?
10:07 < fenn> uh, yes
10:08 < kanzure> so, should I use sed to replace all previous instances of the word 'pydjangitwiki' with 'djangit'? there's probably something in the .git/ folder too
10:09 < fenn> anything in .git shouldnt matter
10:09 < kanzure> okay.
10:10 < genehacker> kanzure you know that protein purification thing?
10:11 < kanzure> yes
10:11 < genehacker> well  I think it's something that's achievable with shrinky dink microfluidics
10:11 < genehacker> SU-8 photolithography shouldn't be that hard
10:11 < ybit> genehacker: shrinky dink microfluidics? :P
10:11 < kanzure> how would you do it?
10:11 < ybit> btw, taqman, how much does it cost?
10:11 < kanzure> ybit: surely you know about that
10:12 < ybit> no i don't [kanzure]
10:12 < kanzure> genehacker: what mask would you use  for SU-8 photolithography?
10:12 < genehacker> a transparency sheet
10:13 < ybit> i'm guessing the reason for purifying taq is so you can make it yourself without having to pay outrageous fees for it?
10:13 < genehacker> exactly
10:13 < ybit> so what's its cost?
10:13 < genehacker> and also if they ever try to regulate us into oblivion they won't be able to
10:13 < kanzure> genehacker: how would you print the fine detail you need on the transparency sheet?
10:13 < ybit> link to the shrinky dinky thingy
10:13 < ybit> ?
10:13 < kanzure> ybit: it's on the servers
10:13 < ybit> with a title similar to that? :P
10:13 < kanzure> ybit: it uses 'shrinky dink' in the paper file name
10:13 < kanzure> yes
10:14 < ybit> wow
10:14 < kanzure> come on, I've got you covered
10:15 < kanzure> post a link while you're at it if you find it
10:15 < ybit> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/microfluidics/Shrinky-Dink%20microfluidics:%203D%20polystyrene%20chips.pdf
10:15 < kanzure> IIRC, there were two papers.
10:16 < kanzure> that one is the right one, yes, but there ight be another one from the same author
10:16 < kanzure> *might
10:16 < ybit> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/microfluidics/Shrinky-Dink%20microfluidics:%20rapid%20generation%20of%20deep%20and%20rounded%20patterns.pdf
10:16 < ybit> didn't see the other
10:16 < kanzure> well there you go. 
10:16 < genehacker> it should work with transparency sheet
10:16 < genehacker> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=9&url=http%3A%2F%2Fengineering.tufts.edu%2Fmicrofab%2Findex_files%2FSOP%2FSU-8%2520Processing.pdf&ei=1fFdSoq7EYHusQPpz_WtCg&usg=AFQjCNFciZ4Or3E8KcOpDgfOhGwmyDFXSA&sig2=HhWzDEw2C9QprJmJmd4zZQ
10:16 < genehacker> or soda lime glass
10:16 < kanzure> genehacker: I guess. the features were about 150 microns at the smallest
10:16 < kanzure> sothat's about the width of human hair
10:16 < kanzure> which can be patterned in sharpie ink on a transparency slide
10:17 < genehacker> 0.15 millimeters
10:17 < kanzure> (the 150 micron features were just straight channels or something)
10:17 < kanzure> human hair is about 18 to 180 microns in diameter
10:17 < genehacker> GUESS WHAT?
10:17 < genehacker> this design is mostly straight lines!
10:17 < kanzure> you get bonus points if you can make the design by using your chest hair
10:17  * fenn mumbles something about "mostly manufacturable"
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10:19 < kanzure> gah how am I already using 8 MB on github
10:19 < ybit> can i get double chest points for using back hair?
10:19 < ybit> s/chest/bonus
10:20 < kanzure> no, only for knuckle hair
10:20 < ybit> i agree with fenn, name needed to be changed
10:20 < ybit> damn
10:21 < ybit> kanzure: didn't you see you don't filter your emails?
10:21 < kanzure> what?
10:21 < kanzure> mailing lists are tagged, if that's what you mean
10:22 < kanzure> some mailing lists do not go directly to the inbox, which is largely dependent on whether or not I have unfinished business with them or unfinished interests
10:23 < ybit> when this gentoo system is installed, i'm going to be trying various email clients. i like the idea of labels from gmail but it gets difficult to read the title of the email to see if it's interesting when it has labels covering the entire screen, e.g.: diyh+, bodyhacking, diybio, OM, postbiota, etc.
10:23 < kanzure> sure
10:23 < kanzure> I used to use kmail. I don't know if I recommend it or not.
10:23 < kanzure> I think fenn uses pine or something
10:23 < kanzure> mutt maybe?
10:23 < fenn> pine
10:23 < ybit> i have all the mailing list not going to the inbox and i just cick the labels which i'm interested in
10:23 < fenn> mutt is better
10:23 < ybit> pine aye
10:24 < ybit> mutt, right, those are def. in the plans to try
10:24 < kanzure> okay, your wish has been carried out
10:24 < ybit> i figure i might be more productive with a cli email client
10:24 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/djangit
10:24 < fenn> yay!
10:24 < ybit> i like the name :P
10:24 < ybit> "do i get bonus points for using back hair" "no only knuckle hair." "djangit!"
10:25 < ybit> no? okay. :)
10:25 < fenn> i LOL'ed
10:26 < fenn> i had an appointment with a pastry, so i couldnt comment
10:26 < ybit> i'll probably try the emacs email client as well
10:26 < ybit> hehe
10:27 < ybit> s/the/an ..not sure how many there are
10:27 < ybit> anyway, pastries sound good, afk to hunt for one
10:27 < kanzure> org-mode for email might be interesting
10:27 < fenn> org-mode is just todo lists and schedules
10:28 < fenn> heh org-mode's logo is like a heavy metal unicorn
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10:30 < genehacker> sorry there had to install mirc
10:30 < kanzure> do we need a commit bot in here?
10:30 < kanzure> fenn: do you have anything against commit bots?
10:30 < ybit> charlie the unicorn?
10:30 < genehacker> ???
10:30 < genehacker> what's a commit bot?
10:30 < fenn> no not particularly
10:30 < fenn> heh ybit i hear ya
10:30 < kanzure> a commit bot is something that says something in the channel every time we commit
10:30 < fenn> they ook my kidneys
10:30 < ybit> genehacker: lets the users in the channel know of commits
10:31 < kanzure> it lets you keep track of when "PROGRESS" is being made
10:31 < ybit> to skdb or djangit!
10:31 < genehacker> ok
10:31 < kanzure> does anyone have a favorite commit bot?
10:31 < fenn> but, uh, i only push at the end of the day or something
10:31 < genehacker> anyway in that protein purification paper
10:31 < kanzure> yeah?
10:31 < ybit> yes?
10:31 < genehacker> what do they use for the monolith solution
10:31 < fenn> or do i add commit hooks to my local repo?
10:31 < kanzure> genehacker: MPTS or something
10:32 < kanzure> fenn: you could add hooks if you want.
10:32 < fenn> kanzure: cia.vc is pretty neato
10:32  * fenn investigates the new situation in #emc-devel now that they're using git
10:32 < genehacker> what's MPTS
10:32 < kanzure> some bullshit
10:32 < genehacker> that doesn't help
10:33 < genehacker> also what does the fractioner do?
10:33 < genehacker> mercaptopropyl)trimethoxysilane
10:33 < genehacker> sigma aldrich chemical
10:35 < kanzure> huh what's #commits ?
10:35 < ybit> enough with the 'amazing news from sf-diybio' title, now it's just being rubbed in my face
10:35 < kanzure> is this a feed of all commits ever?
10:35 < kanzure> nice pulse
10:37 < kanzure> not sure how to configure CIA with git repos
10:42 < ybit> wow, mac has a turned a leaf overnight it seems
10:43 < ybit> he went from "you're not my dev" to "it's your ballpark"
10:44 < kanzure> this is not very helpful: http://github.com/guides/post-receive-hooks
10:44 < kanzure> ybit: mac might have a bipolar disorder
10:44 < ybit> "what do you need? hosting, we can raise money for that. toolbook, alright, i don't particularly care for it, but if it promotes diybio.."
10:44 < ybit> kanzure: maybe, hard to tell from online conversations
10:46 < ybit> kanzure: i thought toolbook was introductory material for machining?
10:46 < kanzure> uhm
10:46 < kanzure> really?
10:47 < kanzure> how did you think that?
10:47 < ybit> guess it could be extended for bio
10:47 < kanzure> did you ever read eric's emails about toolbook?
10:47 < ybit> iirc, which it seems i don't, eric posted it to open-manufacturing
10:47 < kanzure> FAIL: test_view (djangit.wiki.tests.TestViews)
10:47 < fenn> supposedly there's a github irc bot.. not much info on the site though
10:48 < kanzure> http://github.com/typester/github-ircbot-perl/tree/master
10:48 < kanzure> ?
10:48 < kanzure> http://github.com/pjhyett/github-services
10:48 < kanzure> hm
10:48 < kanzure> http://support.github.com/discussions/post-receive-issues/2-github-irc-bot-getting-kicked-for-flooding
10:49 < fenn> isnt the point that it runs on their server though/
10:49 < kanzure> yeah I thought so too
10:50 < kanzure> aha
10:50 < kanzure> http://support.github.com/discussions/post-receive-issues/25-irc-setup-for-service-hook-docs-and-help-request
10:50 < kanzure> a helpful discussion
10:51 < kanzure> they claim it's on the admin page.
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10:55 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * rbf53cf8 / (wiki/tests.py wiki/views.py): debugging test_view. - http://bit.ly/u8IMK
10:55 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * r14aa0a7 / (5 files in 3 dirs): changed name - http://bit.ly/11JvY3
10:55 < kanzure> lovely
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10:56 < kanzure> somehow there's a way to edit the post-commit hooks or something so that you can send this to CIA on your own
10:57 < kanzure> right now it will only be tracking my commits methinks
10:58 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * r3e5b0c2 / wiki/tests.py : added some notes - http://bit.ly/TBSWY
10:58 < kanzure> yay it works
11:00 < fenn> coolzors
11:01  * fenn is wonder how to fit "separation processes" into his taxonomy
11:01 < kanzure> is separation a method of manufacturing?
11:01 < kanzure> also, the people at sciencemadness.org totally ripped me a new one :) they had a lot of helpful suggestions. for instance, dehumidification was not in the list.
11:01 < fenn> dehumidification isnt a separation process
11:01 < kanzure> also HLPC and IEC (ion exchange chromatography) wasn't on the list, which was just negligence on my part
11:02 < kanzure> er. they claimed it was.
11:02 < fenn> well any ontology is somewhat arbitrary
11:02 < fenn> * Drying - removing liquid from a solid by vaporising it 
11:03 < fenn> seems like there's a lot of redundancy here
11:04 < fenn> huh
11:04 < fenn> "Elutriation, also known as air classification, is a process for separating lighter particles from heavier ones using a vertically-directed stream of gas or liquid (usually upwards)."
11:04 < fenn> how is that different from winnowing?
11:05 < kanzure> todo: figure out how to set up the svn repo on adl.serveftp.org with CIA
11:06 < fenn> "suitability of purification techniques for the Three Phase  Purification Strategy: - a rewrite of a section that I did so that the data is in YAML. Have fun."
11:07 < fenn> where's that?
11:07 < kanzure> do you have notes.txt up?
11:07 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/protein-purification/notes.txt
11:07 < fenn> ok i see it
11:07 < kanzure> search for "suitability of purification techniques for the Three Phase Purification Strategy:"
11:07 < kanzure> sorry for not making a separate file
11:07 < kanzure> it sucks anyway
11:08 < fenn> yeh i was sort of hoping you had already yamlified that list of processes
11:08 < kanzure> well there's a few there
11:08 < kanzure> but it's not really in the way that you want it. it's more meant for figuring out specifically purification sequences.
11:10 < kanzure> um brain fart, can you help me figure out how to debug this problem with djangit?
11:10 < kanzure> I'm not sure which view is being called by
11:10 < kanzure> is the only way to fix this to add print statements to each of the views, and see which one is being called?
11:11 < fenn> "which view is being called by" what?
11:11 < kanzure> my test
11:12 < kanzure> it's supposed to be calling the view method in views.py
11:12 < kanzure> each =  ('the_filename', <git.Blob "1ee0926f7c74b60337271441438f5bb76a0733a7">)
11:12 < kanzure> path =  the-folder-name/somethingfilesomething.so
11:12 < kanzure> hm that's not good :) the_filename is in / and not in the-folder-name
11:13 < kanzure> not sure why find_files() would be so confused
11:14 < kanzure> (line 344 I think). ok. nevermind.
11:16 < kanzure> oh. this was something before I wrote the find_file method. I should be using find_file here. got it.
11:49 < kanzure> argh. why doesn't git-python have its own tree traversal algorithm. this is stupid.
11:50 < fenn> "you're doin it wrong"
11:50 < kanzure> no, sorry, there's actually no way to supply git-python a path to something in the repo that you want
11:50 < kanzure> you have to manually traverse the tree yourself
11:50 < kanzure> by that I mean, get the tree object for a sub-folder, and the tree objects within that, etc.
11:51 < genehacker> COME ON MICROSCOPE, EVAC faster
11:51 < kanzure> hahah
11:51 < kanzure> woah this is ridiculous
11:51 < kanzure> GitPython 0.1.6 documentation, pg 8
11:52 < kanzure> print tree/"filename"
11:52 < kanzure> O.o
11:52 < fenn> to push to github do i have to fork my own repo?
11:53 < kanzure> yeah. they want you to fork it from them first though (via their button their page)
11:53 < kanzure> so that they can keep track of it on their end as well
11:53 < fenn> hm. i guess i'll fight gitweb again
11:53 < fenn> since i dont really feel like setting up YAFR
11:53 < kanzure> or run djangit
11:53 < kanzure> YAFR?
11:53 < fenn> i dont trust djangit yet
11:54 < genehacker> huh
11:54 < genehacker> wooho
11:55 < genehacker> microscope's displaying image
11:57 < genehacker> and it's not fuzzy
12:03 < fenn> prickly?
12:06 < fenn> anyone else notice that drinking fountain water always tastes bad?
12:06 < kanzure> when it's cold I can't seem to taste how bad it is
12:07 < fenn> it's more noticeable if you drink from a cup
12:08 < kanzure> how long have you had that cup
12:08 < fenn> couple weeks
12:08 < fenn> it's not the cup, it's the drinking fountain
12:09 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:09 < fenn> run for your lives!
12:10 < kanzure> yay for dan heeks
12:10 < fenn> since june 17 (i guess that's more than a couple weeks)
12:10 < kanzure> apparently somebody added a file to heekspython but it's not being made in the makefile
12:11 < fenn> #cam would probably be a good place to aska bout that
12:12 < kanzure> he replied by email, but ok
12:23 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-123-29.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:26 < kanzure> /home/kanzure/local/heekscad/heekspython-read-only/HeeksPython.so: undefined symbol: _ZNK11HeeksCADapp12GetResFolderEv
12:30 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE6FF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:33 < fenn> pff so much for SConstruct
12:34 < kanzure> what's wrong with it?
12:34 < fenn> eh. it's just not working that's all
12:37 < fenn> there's gotta be a  better way to say "copy *.py to /usr/sharep/pyshared/OCC/
12:38 < fenn> there's like five pages of this SOURCE_FILENAME TARGET_FILENAME WXDISPLAY_BASE_FILENAME crap
12:39 < kanzure> should we just write our own build scripts?
12:39 < fenn> don't make me answer that
12:40 < fenn> so basically i'm going through the SConstruct file trying to figure out what it is supposed to do, and how that's different from what i did
12:42 < fenn> oh i have to ln -s to /usr/sharep/pyshared
12:43 < kanzure> what is /usr/sharep?
12:43 < fenn> typo
12:43 < fenn> sudo ln -s /usr/share/pyshared/OCC /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/OCC
12:45 < fenn> i wonder what's supposed to go in Display/
12:45 < splicer> i'm listening to a talk where max more discusses the legal status of teleported people
12:46 < splicer> ... how far out can one get?
12:46 -!- kardan_ [n=kardan@84.190.98.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:47 < splicer> some of the discussions within the transhuman community are pretty fucked up... and they sometimes figure it out by themselves and stop the discussions, but by then they are already pretty far off sanity.
12:52 < fenn> kanzure: you know the lighting looks pretty weird in pythonOCC in general
12:52 < ybit> "Porn Banned in Ukraine, Unless Used for Medicinal Purposes"
12:52 < fenn> ybit: consider the alternatives!!
12:53 < ybit> robot pr0n is banned too fenn, sorry :P
13:05 < splicer> i used to know a ukranian girl, she wouldn't have agreed with that law
13:07 < splicer> why create laws that can't be inforced and noone is going to care about anyway
13:08 < splicer> (enforced)
13:08 < ybit> like for instance the fact that it is illegal to show movies translated to russian in ukranian cinemas
13:08 < ybit> or it's illegal to tie an elephant to a pole in some city in i believe north carolina
13:09 < ybit> but that's an old law that even the cops wouldn't enforce (unless they were aware of it)
13:09 < fenn> think of the elephants!
13:09 < ybit> these are recent laws in the EU
13:09 < ybit> and i'm fully aware that ukraine is not eu
13:10 < splicer> half of them want to join nato
13:12 -!- ybit [n=ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit ["rebooting for file system changes"]
13:16 < splicer> belorussia is usually considered the strangest of the old soviet states... the state is actively building a cult around the infallible president Lukasjenko
13:19 -!- ybit [n=ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:20 < ybit> think i said that i needed to reboot for the file system, meant partition tables, meh
13:20 < ybit> CIA-73: 
13:20 < ybit> CIA-73: help
13:20 < ybit> CIA-73: test
13:20  * fenn kicks CIA-73 
13:20 < CIA-73> ow
13:20 < ybit> hehe
13:20 < ybit> was about to say CIA-73 doesn't respond
13:21  * ybit slaps CIA-73 with a trout
13:21 < ybit> grr
13:22  * fenn gives CIA-73 a cookie
13:22 < fenn> oh, right
13:22  * fenn hugs CIA-73 
13:22  * CIA-73 hugs fenn
13:22 < kanzure> hehe
13:22  * ybit licks CIA-73 
13:22  * ybit eats CIA-73 
13:22  * CIA-73 tastes crunchy
13:22 < ybit> hmm, sounds dirty
13:23 < splicer> CIA-73 offend ybit
13:23  * ybit pets CIA-73 
13:24 < splicer> hey... maybe CIA-73 can kidnap people and fly the around between secret prisons in eastern europe?
13:25 < ybit> and drop them off at the secret prisons? sounds crule
13:25 < fenn> no just back and forth all day
13:25 < fenn> no rest for the prisoner!
13:25 < ybit> :P
13:26 < ybit> that would be fun, minus all the bugs flying into your face
13:26 < ybit> CIA-73 flies at low altitudes
13:26 < splicer> what can CIA-73 do then?
13:27 < ybit> splicer: CIA-73 is a github bot for djangit (and skdb?)
13:27 < splicer> CIA-73 help
13:27 < ybit> it notifies the channel of commits
13:27 < splicer> that's all
13:27 < splicer> ?
13:28 < ybit> and it says funny things too
13:28 < ybit> like
13:28  * ybit eats CIA-73 
13:28  * CIA-73 tastes crunchy
13:28  * splicer offends CIA-73
13:28 < splicer> ok.. i get it
13:28 < ybit> CIA-73 works for the government as well, hence cia
13:29 < splicer> ah ; )
13:29 < splicer> that can't be bad
13:29  * splicer hugs CIA-73
13:29  * CIA-73 hugs splicer
13:30 < ybit> hi CIA-73 
13:30  * ybit slaps CIA-73 
13:31 < fenn> i've created a monster
13:31  * ybit wants a list of commands for CIA-73 
13:31 < ybit> !help CIA-73 
13:31 < ybit> !commands CIA-73 
13:32 < splicer> CIA-73 ?
13:32 < splicer> CIA-73 commands
13:32 < fenn> it's not really a bot in the sense that it has commands
13:32 < splicer> it really is the CIA
13:33 < fenn> splicer: http://cia.vc
13:34 < fenn> this sounds pretty neat; i'm not sure i really need to include a separate library for this stuff though: http://code.enthought.com/projects/traits/
13:34 < kanzure> fenn: I like how everyone in here is so paranoid that they think it's really the central intelligence agency
13:34  * fenn shrugs
13:35 < fenn> they think that in every channel
13:35  * ybit kills CIA-73 
13:35  * CIA-73 dies
13:36  * ybit rubs tummy CIA-73 
13:36  * ybit rubs CIA-73 tummy
13:36  * ybit rubs CIA-73's tummy
13:36 < CIA-73> *purr*
13:37 < fenn> bot abuse!
13:37 < ybit>         """Just for fun"""
13:37 < ybit>         text = message.lower().strip()
13:37 < ybit>         me = self.nickname.lower()
13:37 < ybit>         them = user.split('!')[0]
13:37 < ybit>         if text == 'hugs %s' % me:
13:37 < ybit>             self.me(channel, 'hugs %s' % them)
13:37 < ybit>         elif text == 'kicks %s' % me:
13:37 < ybit>             self.say(channel, 'ow')
13:37 < ybit>         elif text == 'kills %s' % me:
13:37 < ybit>             self.me(channel, 'dies')
13:37 < ybit>         elif text == 'eats %s' % me:
13:37 < ybit>             self.me(channel, 'tastes crunchy')
13:37 < ybit>         elif text == "rubs %s's tummy" % me:
13:37 < ybit>             self.say(channel, "*purr*")
13:37 < ybit> CIA-73's commands ^
13:37 < splicer> fenn: thanks, I missed a lot of the project discussions... i thought is was a general bot
13:38 < kanzure> those aren't really interesting names
13:38 < kanzure> er, really interesting commands
13:38 < splicer> add fucks
13:38 < splicer> ..it's not robot sex but
13:38 < ybit> splicer: it's open source, go for it
13:39 < splicer> ykiokbinmk
13:39 < ybit>  
13:39 < ybit> http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en&sa=N&cd=1&ct=rc#MbJbmNcVlEM/trunk/cia/LibCIA/IRC/Bots.py&q=hugs%20package:http://cia-vc%5C.googlecode%5C.com
13:39 < ybit> http://cia-vc.googlecode.com/svn/
13:39 < ybit> **
13:40 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:41 < splicer> cool ; ) but I don't want to, was just a joke
13:42 < ybit> :)
13:43 < ybit> wasn't cia mac's username when he joined? it would just be odd to have a "/me fucks cia" command
13:43 < fenn> you're thinking "cis-action"
13:43 < ybit> ah
13:43 < fenn> which believe it or not has nothing to do with fucking the cia
13:43 < ybit> wouldn't have guessed
13:44 < ybit> but i do have other guesses as to what it means
13:46 < ybit> my guesses are too silly to repeat
13:48 < ybit> maybe mac might also like to watch instead of read
13:48 < ybit> http://video.fosdem.org/2008/maintracks/FOSDEM2008-largescale.ogg
13:48 < ybit> "how a large-scale open source project works"
13:49 < fenn> possibly more relevant would be "how a small-scale project that works well works"
13:49 < kanzure> ybit: what is it about?
13:50 < kanzure> well it's clear that mac is incapable of keeping up with things as it is
13:50 < kanzure> so maybe from his perspective it's "large"
13:50 < fenn> "there's 700 people on the list!!!omgwtfbbq"
13:51 < kanzure> he would be upset to learn that any script kiddie on the net can end up with thousands of members on his site for no reason whatsoever
13:51 < kanzure> back when I cared about member counts, I remember having ~1.5k people playing my php-scripted rpg
13:53 < ybit> bkero: has osuosl considered switching to paludis?
13:56 < ybit> #
13:57 < ybit> re: what is it about, probably what the title suggest, haven't seen it, have consumed too many similar items in the past
13:59 < ybit> i'm guessing that i shouldn't bother with small mistakes such as s/suggest/suggests in the future
13:59 < bkero> ybit: freenode uses paludis, we encourage them not to
13:59 < ybit> bkero: why not?
14:00 < splicer> the diybio list has more impact than the membercount implies... at this point in town they are pretty much the only game in town so they get the press
14:00 < splicer> (point in time)
14:01 < ybit> diyh+ ftw
14:01 < bkero> ybit: cfengine/puppet don't support it, we run multiple architectures with some hosts using binary packages, and the paludis guys are kind of assholes
14:02 < splicer> i have a feeling the h+ movement has the future behind it
14:02 < ybit> probably just tired of portage
14:02 < bkero> ybit: try portage 2.2 :)
14:02 < kanzure> splicer: you have the wrong idea
14:02 < fenn> splicer: that means they're heading into the past? :P
14:02 < ybit> yeah, it is slowly improving
14:02 < bkero> and try baselayout-2
14:03 < kanzure> splicer: basically the executive director of the hplus movement' wants to give fenn a huge wad of cash
14:03 < kanzure> to get shit done.
14:03 < fenn> so they say
14:03 < splicer> kanzure: maybe... but it seems to me the transhumanist community is getting older and more tired
14:03 < kanzure> hey!
14:03 < kanzure> that offer extends to me too
14:03 < kanzure> so what are you saying, I'm old and tired?
14:03 < splicer> sounds cool
14:03 < splicer> take the money
14:03 < ybit> kanzure: you're beard tells such a story ;)
14:04 < ybit> your*
14:04 < kanzure> you're a beard too
14:04 < kanzure> you're all jerks
14:04  * kanzure cries with CIA-73 
14:04 < ybit> :P
14:04 < fenn> a story of pain and anguish
14:04 < ybit> actually i don't know what you look like bryan, the picture on facebook is probably too
14:04 < ybit> old
14:04 < ybit> and i think it's on heybryan.org as well
14:05 < fenn> that's what he looks like
14:05 < ybit> i have drawings of myself on facebook
14:05 < ybit> oh, okay
14:05 < splicer> I think brian might actually be the a quater of the transhumanist movement
14:05 < ybit> actually, they were originally pictures of me, and i made them look cartoonish
14:05 < kanzure> quater?
14:05 < splicer> third?
14:05 < kanzure> quarter
14:05 < splicer> if they have money.. take it
14:05 < kanzure> but quarter is a fourth
14:06 < splicer> yes
14:06 < fenn> i probably shouldnt be sharing this but oh well http://fennetic.net/irc/Fennfoot-Whiffletoe.jpg
14:06 < kanzure> you're right.
14:07 < kanzure> and no, he looks nothing like that in person
14:08 < ybit> :P
14:08 < ybit> fenn, you drew this? it's nice
14:08 < fenn> i think Traits is basically just a poor way to reimplement python's built-in properties stuff
14:08 < fenn> ybit: well, no, not entirely
14:09  * ybit will have to dig around for some of my self-drawings
14:09 < splicer> kanzure: i think the h+ community needs you to try to lend credibility to itself... if you do something a lot of old people doing nothing feel they are on the cutting edge.
14:10 < splicer> it seems to me all but a few of them have their feet firmly cemented in the late 80:ies
14:11 < ybit> bah, no time for that. check out facebook for recent ones i suppose
14:11 < fenn> ybit: linkage plz
14:12 < ybit> http://facebook.com/heathmatlock
14:12 < fenn> well. i can only see the front page i think
14:12 < ybit> oh
14:12 < ybit> no facebook for you?
14:12 < fenn> i'll be damned if i sign up for facebook
14:13 < kanzure> it's true, he will be damned
14:14 < splicer> i never use my account 
14:15 < splicer> (It's useful for social hacking I suppose)
14:15 < ybit> http://imgbin.org/images/638.jpg
14:15 < ybit> http://imgbin.org/images/639.jpg
14:16 < ybit> we had a nerf war some day and that was a picture of me converted to a comic styling
14:17 < ybit> i never use my facebook either unless i have messages coming in my inbox
14:17 < kanzure> looks like this might be an appropriate time to deploy my internet image archive
14:17 < splicer> the first pic is actually esthetically cool
14:17 < ybit> -coming
14:17 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/camera/index.php?Qwd=./internet&Qif=nobodycares.jpg&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=M
14:18 < ybit> i had pretty cool anime-like drawing of myself influenced by sin city when the art direction was new
14:18 < ybit> drawing = converted image
14:18 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.211.175] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:19 < ybit> oi Phreedom 
14:20 < kanzure> wow it works
14:20 < kanzure> it's amazing when a single line somewhere fixes a function four levels deep in the call stack
14:21 < kanzure> and then all of the other unit tests pass at the same time too
14:22 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * rccdd331 / wiki/views.py : passed unit test for the view view - http://bit.ly/yjBkS
14:23 < fenn> looks more like you added about 50 lines
14:23 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * r2404f77 / wiki/views.py : removed print statements - http://bit.ly/Q9XuL
14:24 < kanzure> what are you basing that off of? why not just check with wc -l?
14:24 < kanzure> oh probably the short url
14:32 < CIA-73> skdb: fenn master * r2a25db9 / taxonomy.yaml : first pass at separation processes - http://bit.ly/78djw
14:33 < fenn> spooky
14:37 < kanzure> fenn, you can run the unit tests by ./manage test wiki
14:37 < kanzure> at the moment one unit test fails
14:37 < kanzure> but I'm not sure what the correct check should be
14:40 < fenn> should i be getting TemplateDoesNotExist: view.html
14:40 < kanzure> no
14:40 < fenn> line 329, in test_view
14:41 < kanzure> check TEMPLATE_DIRS in settings.py
14:41 < kanzure> line 79
14:41 < kanzure> please don't kill me
14:41 < fenn> /home/kanzure/code/djangit/templates/ probably has something to do with it
14:41 < kanzure> probably
14:42 < kanzure> comment out line 79 , uncomment line 78 I think
14:44 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * r7999c91 / (settings.py wiki/tests.py): removed another print statement, fixed settings.py - http://bit.ly/66ZSL
14:44 < fenn> what's the rationale behind test_pop_path?
14:44 < kanzure> wanted to make sure I was doing pop_path correctly
14:44 < kanzure> it's not a view, but it is relevant to seeing if my tools work or not
14:44 < fenn> shouldnt it be "/super/star" instead?
14:45 < kanzure> shouldnt what be that?
14:45 < kanzure> line number?
14:45 < fenn> the result of pop_path
14:45 < fenn> 185
14:45 < kanzure> that's pop_path_rev that yhou are thinking of
14:46 < kanzure> see line 22 and line 33 in wiki/views.py
14:46 < fenn> i dont know what functions you've defined, but generally you pop off the top of the list not the bottom
14:47 < kanzure> how big of a deal is this
14:47 < kanzure> should I fix this? I mean, right now the code works
14:47 < kanzure> except obviously that one test that I am not sure about
14:47 < ybit> p/opensourcemedicine/web/project-ideas
14:47 < kanzure> I don't even know if that test should be made to pass or not
14:47 < kanzure> ybit: ?
14:48 < ybit> http://groups.google.se/group/opensourcemedicine/web/project-ideas
14:48 < fenn> oh, well pop_path fails anyway
14:48 < fenn> so you might as well fix it.. but really i dont see why the function exists in the first place
14:48 < kanzure> not the first test for pop_path
14:48 < kanzure> it exists for use in some other functions
14:48 < kanzure> for figuring out the correct path for getting files, etc.
14:48 < kanzure> like [Blike in children()
14:49 < kanzure> and in view()
14:51 < fenn> some of this is kinda hard to understand
14:52 < kanzure> anything in particular
14:52 < fenn> check = cur_tree.__dict__["_contents"].has_key(pop_path_rev(copy.copy(path)))
14:52 < fenn> checkthing = pop_path_rev(copy.copy(path))
14:52 < fenn>  if check and not name == checkthing:
14:52 < kanzure> okay, the code I just committed
14:52 < fenn> pop_path has side effects (that's probably bad)
14:53 < kanzure> what?
14:53  * ybit is off to do a robot's job
14:53 < kanzure> what side effects?
14:53 < fenn> it modifies the variable, that's why you have the copy.copy(path)
14:53 < fenn> right?
14:53 < kanzure> oh, right
14:53 < fenn> better to just do that in the function
14:54 < kanzure> ok, I agree
14:54 < kanzure> hm wonder why it's taking so long to push
14:54 < fenn> anyway, what is that code supposed to be checking?
14:55 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * r464db70 / wiki/views.py : threw copy.copy() into the functions, removed side effects - http://bit.ly/2HUUv3
14:55 < kanzure> well, in that case, whether or not there is a key that corresponds to the name of the path
14:55 < fenn> "check" "check2" "checkthing" arent exactly self documenting
14:55 < kanzure> because you don't want to grab a key that doesn't exist
14:55 < kanzure> that will be a big no-no
14:57  * kanzure comments
14:57 < fenn> is this basically a try: foo = somedict[somekey]
14:57 < kanzure> yes
14:58 < fenn> except KeyError: blah
14:59  * fenn is guessing there's a better way to do it
14:59 < kanzure> heh
15:00 < fenn> are there any unit tests for this git stuff?
15:00 < kanzure> TestViews
15:01 < kanzure> it's in tests.py too
15:01 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * r5b26cd5 / wiki/views.py : commented views.py - http://bit.ly/2EzQ1x
15:02 < fenn> these sorts of comments are useless: #if the path is a file, continue #otherwise, return the index view
15:02 < kanzure> why is it useless
15:03 < kanzure> oh, that's an old one
15:03 < kanzure> line 353?
15:03 < fenn> ya
15:04 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * r4e7a89f / wiki/views.py : cleaned up some old comments - http://bit.ly/Gm3Tt
15:07 < fenn> where does locals() come from?
15:07 < kanzure> default python global namespace?
15:07 < kanzure> it should spit out all local variables
15:08 < fenn> weird
15:08 < kanzure> heh bpython over screen might be fun to play with
15:08 < kanzure> I mena, between multiple people
15:08 < kanzure> *mean
15:10 < fenn> how do i get an interactive session set up so i can pretend i'm view()?
15:11 < kanzure> import djangit
15:11 < kanzure> import djangit.wiki.views
15:11 < kanzure> import djangit.settings
15:11 < kanzure> import django.http
15:11 < kanzure> myrequest = django.http.HttpRequest()
15:11 < kanzure> djangit.wiki.views.view(myrequest,"","")
15:12 < kanzure> you can also see django.test.client.Client, like in this case:
15:12 < kanzure> from django.test.client import Client
15:12 < kanzure> django.test.utils.setup_ftest_environment()
15:12 < kanzure> c=Client()
15:12 < kanzure> response = c.get("/")
15:12 < kanzure> response.context["some variable"]
15:12 < kanzure> before you do any of that you may have to do this: export DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE"djangit/settings"
15:12 < fenn> hmm
15:12 < fenn> environment variable DJANGO_SE
15:12 < fenn> TTINGS_MODULE is undefined.
15:12 < fenn> now he tells me
15:13 < kanzure> yeah just covered that
15:14 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.211.175] has left #hplusroadmap ["Konversation terminated!"]
15:14 < fenn>  Could not import settings 'djangit/settings'
15:14 < kanzure> where are you running the interactive interpreter from?
15:14 < fenn> parent dir of djangit
15:15 < fenn> otherwise import djangit.* doesnt work
15:15 < kanzure> when do you get that error? let me try
15:15 < fenn> import djangit.wiki.views
15:16 < kanzure> works for me. 
15:16 < kanzure> oh
15:16 < kanzure> try import djangit.wiki before import djangit.wiki.views
15:17 < fenn> nope
15:18 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
15:18 < kanzure> why could it not import those settings? maybe there's some funky permissions going on?
15:18 < fenn> -rw-r--r-- 1 fenn lab 3127 2009-07-15 14:53 djangit/settings.py
15:19 < kanzure> do not import djangit.settings
15:19 < kanzure> $ bpython
15:19 < kanzure> >>> import djangit
15:19 < kanzure> >>> import djangit.wiki
15:19 < kanzure> >>> import djangit.wiki.views
15:19 < kanzure> >>> exit()
15:20 < fenn> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/128835/
15:21 < kanzure> does it have syntax errors? I don't know
15:22 < fenn> it's up to date wrt github
15:23 < kanzure> you know that my export line was missing an equals  ('=') symbol right?
15:23 < fenn> yes
15:24 < kanzure> oh
15:24 < kanzure> did the tests run?
15:25 < fenn> yes, everything except test_pop_path
15:25 < kanzure> did they say anything about crreating a "database" and destroying a "database"
15:25 < kanzure> *creating
15:25 < fenn> tes
15:25 < kanzure> fuck, was hoping you didn't have python-mysql or mysql installed
15:26 < kanzure> ok one idea is to comment out line 5 in djangit.wiki.views
15:26 < kanzure> although if anything that will make your namespace all screwy
15:27 < kanzure> I really don't think I've done anything specail on this end.
15:27 < kanzure> are you testing on minsky or davacini?
15:27 < kanzure> davinci?
15:28 < fenn> it bitches about settings as soon as i do anything
15:28 < fenn> testing on minsky
15:28 < kanzure> try playing aqround with the export statement
15:28 < kanzure> maybe give it the full path
15:30 < fenn> what's up with package ke signing on davinci
15:31 < fenn> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
15:31 < kanzure> I don't think I've enabled it
15:31 < kanzure> it's something about the latest version of apt or something.. they want signign of packages
15:31 < kanzure> *signing
15:31 < fenn> that's been around forever
15:32 < fenn> huh it works on davinci
15:33 < kanzure> i don't trust minsky any more
15:33 < kanzure> this is the second ti
15:33 < kanzure> me that something impossible has happened at the lab while I've been away
15:33 < kanzure> and it's all been about minsky
15:33 < fenn> hmph
15:34 < fenn> i imagine it'd do the same thing on any ubuntu computer
15:35 < fenn> ok now it works on minsky
15:35 < kanzure> what did you do?
15:35 < fenn> <_<
15:35 < kanzure> oh, maybe I am usin tg the latest svn checkout of django?
15:36 < fenn> i dont know
15:36 < kanzure> how could you not know
15:37 < fenn> how do i dosave the buffer to a file?
15:37 < kanzure> control-S? in bpython, rightg?
15:37 < fenn> no i mean the scroll back buffer
15:37 < fenn> in the shell
15:37 < kanzure> hell if I know
15:38 < kanzure> isn't it emacs or something?
15:38 < fenn> basically it looks to me like i did absolutely nothing and then it worked
15:40 < fenn> djangit.wiki.views.view('huh') gives the same error now
15:40 < kanzure> you're calling it wrong
15:40 < kanzure> you have to pass it the HttpRequest object first
15:41 < fenn> davinci gives me a different error
15:42 < kanzure> is it more useful?
15:42 < fenn> NoSuchPath /tmp/tmprepo
15:42  * kanzure nods
15:42 < kanzure> that's the test repo
15:42 < kanzure> you should go make it I guess
15:42 < kanzure> in the tests (the unit tests) it makes that repo for itself
15:42 < fenn> oh i thought it made it itself
15:42 < kanzure> I suppose you could do djangit.wiki.views.begin()  if you're lazy
15:42 < kanzure> yeah
15:42 < kanzure> , begin() does that for you
15:43 < fenn> right
15:45 < fenn> ok i give up
15:45  * fenn looks around for something useful to do
15:46 < kanzure> what's wrong?
15:47 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * rd665a27 / (wiki/tests.py wiki/views.py): cleaned up a bit - http://bit.ly/W5jzd
15:47 < fenn> i'll let you bang your head on it later
15:47 < kanzure> are you still trying to call the view?
15:48 < fenn> just doing import djangit.wiki.views
15:48 < kanzure> I thought it works on davinci?
15:48 < fenn> i uncommented the import django.shortcuts and now it breaks again
15:49 < fenn> yeah but davinci doesnt have bpython and other excuses
15:49 < kanzure> psh
15:49 < kanzure> it's not like you have any lag if you choose to ssh
15:52 < kanzure> hm
15:52 < kanzure> http://github.com/abiggerhammer/pydjangitwiki/blob/e6705a6225aab2bfcd44bfda3b94cb978fc5a65a/docs/mlp-workingnotes
15:58 < fenn> you should probably move the repo creation stuff into its own .py file
16:00 < kanzure> any ideas on a file naming scheme?
16:01 < fenn> "readme"
16:01 < kanzure> ?
16:02 < fenn> uh.. well repo creation probably doesnt belong in wiki/ anywhere
16:02  * kanzure nods
16:02 < kanzure> are you leaving?:
16:02 < fenn> in a bit
16:03 < kanzure> ok then. um.
16:03 < kanzure> there are a few views that I have not written yet because I do not know the correspondikng git command
16:03 < kanzure> in some cases it's just because I'm lazy
16:03 < kanzure> but if you could, say, help me out there by mentioning what view corresponds to what weird git command sequence, that would be hot
16:04 < fenn> i'm still not really sure what this thing does
16:05 < kanzure> do you remember git-wiki?
16:05 < fenn> but there's a fairly straightforward mapping between most wiki idioms and git commands
16:05 < fenn> yes
16:05 < kanzure> how could you not be sure then
16:06 < fenn> ok time to go hope i dont fall asleep and miss the bus again
16:51 < kanzure> Hensing’s Cerebri examen chemicum (1719)
16:51 < kanzure> "culminating in the successful amelioration of parkinsonian akinesia by Birkmayer and Hornykiewicz via administration of L-DOPA in 1961"
17:02 < kanzure> http://tom.preston-werner.com/2009/05/19/the-git-parable.html
17:17 < kanzure> http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/newsrel/2009/la022509.html Operation Xcellerator
17:33 < bkero> Shit, sorry guys
17:33 < bkero> I should have posted the space shuttle Endeavour launch
17:33 < bkero> NASA did a live feed we've been watching at work.
17:35 < kanzure> wouldn't be able to stream into this shitty apartment anyway
17:35 < kanzure> (well, the apartment isn't so shitty)
18:06 -!- any76051661 is now known as katsmeow
18:14 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk
18:33 < Smari> kanzure, y0
18:33 < kanzure> YO HO HO
18:33 < kanzure> er, without the caps
18:34 < kanzure> what's up?
18:35 < Smari> Not much. As a procrastination task, I'm compiling a list of basic terrain types and trying to assign them value ranges for altitude, temperature, humidity and groundwater level...
18:35 < Smari> terrain types may overlap but all conceivable ranges must be covered.
18:36 < Smari> (basically defining tesseracts in the state space)
18:36 < kanzure> oh, um
18:36 < kanzure> Smari: there is a datasets mailing list
18:36 < kanzure> search for "get the info"
18:36 < kanzure> or "theinfo"
18:37 < bkero> http://www.mikealrogers.com/archives/628
18:41 < Smari> kanzure, neat
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18:55 < kanzure> Smari: basic terrain types? Do you know about GSI? er, sorry, GIS. geographic information systems
18:56 < Smari> I have worked on GIS systems professionally.
18:56 < kanzure> ah, I haven't
18:56 < kanzure> how is it?
18:56 < Smari> Interesting.
18:58 < Smari> I've done more or less the entire spectrum of the GIS field: from manual plotting of data with GPS/dGPS to echophotographic analysis to satellite analysis to database construction and what have you... the only part of it which I find very boring is the sitting-around-drawing-polylines-in-Microstation bit, which quite thoroughly sucks.
18:58 < Smari> That said, I'm no geographer, and there's a fuckload I don't know about.
18:59 < Smari> And: I hate every single piece of GIS software I've ever come across with a vengeance.
18:59 < kanzure> last year I was spending some time writing a simple neural network or weighted scoring function to figure out where exactly to harvest algae in Texas
18:59 < kanzure> based off of GIS datasets
18:59 < kanzure> but I never did find suitable datasets. they were all in weird formats and pulled from different government websites.
19:00 < Smari> yeah
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19:01 < Smari> the problem with GIS in general, I think, is that the people who've been doing it have been traditionally not computer savvy, and so they've been getting people who aren't GIS savvy to write cruddy software to solve problems based on very poor specifications.
19:02 < kanzure> al ot of it looks like it's from the 80s
19:02 < kanzure> "polylines" for defining different shapes. heh
19:02 < kanzure> I mean, that's how you'd do it still, but still..
19:03 < Smari> I mean, companies like Bentley that claim to specialize in GIS software have managed to make software that isn't just alarmingly difficult to use, but is also incapable of solving most of the interesting GIS tasks..
19:03 < Smari> yeah
19:04 < Smari> Now, if Google Earth were a) open source, b) had a decent programming interface, say, Python, c) had a decent built-in editor and d) had database bindings with a decent UI, then we'd be dancing.
19:04 < Smari> It's already plenty good
19:04 < kanzure> they do have some datasets for google maps, but it's hard to integrate with
19:04 < kanzure> or I've just not been bothering
19:04 < Smari> just not for what we'd like to do with it
19:05 < Smari> I wrote some software to export datasets from Microstation GIS stuff to Google Earth. It was painful.
19:05 < Smari> And still I don't know if it works except in the edge cases I was dealing with.
19:05 -!- freedom_ [n=freedom@195.216.211.175] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:06 < kanzure> hello freedom_ 
19:06 < freedom_> hi  :)
19:06 -!- freedom_ is now known as Phreedom
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19:21 < Smari> Hmm!
19:21 < Smari> Is there a rule forbidding tabs in YAML documents?
19:22 < kanzure> yes
19:22 < kanzure> tabs are evil
19:22 < Smari> No, tabs are good.
19:22 < kanzure> never ever mix tabs and whitespace
19:23 < Smari> Agreed.
19:23 < Smari> That's why I never indent with whitespace
19:23 < Smari> Indenting with whitespace has innumerable flaws.
19:23 < Smari> But yes, they apparently ban tabs.
19:23 < kanzure> just use sed to replace all tabs with spaces
19:23 < kanzure> sed -i 's/\t/    /g' somefile.txt
19:23  * kanzure is talking out of his ass
19:26 < Smari> nothing new in candyland.
19:26 < kanzure> ?
19:29 < genehacker> ??? ?????
19:29 < kanzure> I love this stream.
19:29 < kanzure> http://go2id.net:8000/
19:29 < kanzure> er
19:30 < kanzure> http://go2id.net:8000/listen.pls
19:30 < kanzure> that one
19:38 < CIA-73> djangit: kanzure master * r53f5a0b / wiki/tests.py : not sure how to continue fighting bugs - http://bit.ly/p9bLE
19:43 < genehacker> can't play .pls
19:43 < genehacker> wtf happened?
19:52 < kanzure> SU--8 discussion forum? http://www.sporian.com/cgi-bin/HyperNews/get/SU-8.html?inline=1
19:55 < kanzure> hahah
19:55 < kanzure> you can make AFM cantilevers out of SU-8
19:56 < kanzure> MEMScyclopedia forum - http://memscyclopedia.org/fori/memscyclopedia.pl?num=1166007784
19:59 < QuantumG> if I design a mems device, can I get it built?
20:06 < kanzure> hm most people bake SU8 on a hotplate
20:06 < kanzure> wonder if the cement outside counts here in texas
20:06 < kanzure> it's certainly fucking hot enough
20:06 < kanzure> QuantumG: it depends on what you design
20:07 < kanzure> like if you include hydraulics and quantum processor shit, I'll yell at you
20:08 < kanzure> wtf are "infrared hotplates"? http://mail.mems-exchange.org/pipermail/mems-talk/2007-February/212338.html
20:10 < kanzure> beginners guide to su8 processing http://www.mic.dtu.dk/upload/institutter/mic/forskning/insers/beginners%20guide%20to%20su-8.pdf
20:11 < kanzure> http://openwetware.org/wiki/Mathies:Photolithography
20:11 < kanzure> start reading at "SU-8 25 gives an approximate film thickness of 25µm."
20:12 < QuantumG> how about some of those neat mems electrostatic motors
20:12 < QuantumG> comb motors or whatever they're called
20:18 < kanzure> genehacker: know of a simple spin coater design?
20:19 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-45728ce1.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:21 < kanzure> diy spin coater http://nathan.instras.com/projects/spin-coater/index.html
20:22 < kanzure> "As you can see, it's basically just an aluminum base that holds two small DC motors (RadioShack).  Power is supplied by a 1-10V DC power supply.  CDR cases serve as the spin chamber.  This are great because the top quickly snaps on and off, and are easy to drill through.  The RPM counter consist of a Electronic Totalizer (Eagle by Redington) and a phototransistor reflective object sensor (Fairchild Semiconductor).  These, along with all the other electronics were purchased from Allied Electronics. "
20:22 < kanzure> for ~$70
20:24 < kanzure> hm, what's a good DC motor?
20:25 < kanzure> hah
20:25 < kanzure> DIY latex dip-molding http://www.thinkcycle.org/tc-comments/file-download?item_id=43828
20:25 < kanzure> via a gatorade bottle and some duck tape as the centrifuge (spun by hand)
20:32 < kanzure> screw this. I might as well just use a CDROM drive for spin coating.
20:36 < Smari> gn
20:38 < kanzure> night
20:45 < kanzure> octopart.org still sucks, how am I supposed to find dc motors?
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21:33 < kanzure> T-shirt transfer of patterns to glass substrates with a hot press
21:33 < kanzure> http://www.rsc.org.ezproxy.lib.utexas.edu/Publishing/Journals/lc/Chips_and_Tips/rapid_fabrication.asp
21:39 < kanzure> http://www.rsc.org/Publishing/Journals/lc/Chips_and_Tips/rapid_fabrication.asp
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21:55 < ybit> argh, storms :-\
21:55  * ybit was reading the channel log when it struck, got to the part where Smari was talking about his professional gis experience
21:56 < ybit> oh well, will ask for a log later? need to get as much of this install done today
22:15 < kanzure> http://www.wikihow.com/Drill-Holes-Through-Glass
22:28 < ybit> nice
22:29 < ybit> mage2: you forge metal, correct?
22:30 < ybit> is that the only way to purify proteins, btw.
22:31 < ybit> because the purifying proteins paper you linked to yesterday, kanzure, it assumes i have laser cutter me thinks
22:31 < ybit> which would require me to build a bits and bytes laser cutting repstrap
22:31 < ybit> which would costs ~$4k
22:31 < ybit> 3-4
22:34 < kanzure> no
22:34 < kanzure> you do not need a laser cutter to purify proteins
22:35 < kanzure> what the fuck is wrong with you
22:35 < kanzure> :p
22:35 < kanzure> hm. 3 to 5 second boot times by replacing your BIOS: http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot
22:35 < ybit> hmm
22:36 < kanzure> see the T-shirt press email I sent out
22:36 < kanzure> (a few minutes ago)
22:36 < ybit> i confess not to have read the paper, just skimmed it 
22:36 < kanzure> nothing about a laser cutter
22:36 < ybit> and then in the emails i could have swore there was someone mentioning using a laser to create the channels on the cd
22:37 < ybit> k, guess i will actually read this while the kernel is compiling
22:41 < ybit> gentoo's slogan should be 'welcome back home'
22:41 < ybit> anywho..
22:41 < kanzure> yes, meredith mentioned using a laser cutter to cut CDs for some reason
22:42 < kanzure> but unfortunately you will then just have a cut CD..
22:42 < kanzure> in other words you do not have an enclosed volume
22:42 < kanzure> so what's the point?
22:42 < kanzure> I don't think she understood.
22:42 < kanzure> "I looked at the numbers for Massachusetts, and one very well publicized lab is not listed (The November 13 2005 discovery of the PIHKAL lab of Kevin McCormack in South Boston)"
22:42 < kanzure> his lab was discovered?
22:45 < ybit> you mccormack?
22:46 < ybit> +know
23:07  * ybit hugs CIA-73 gn
23:07 < ybit> i said..
23:07  * ybit hugs CIA-73 gn dammit!
23:07 < ybit> fuck you too asshole
23:09 < ybit> nice find on the coreboot kanzure 
23:10 < ybit> too bad it doesn't support my soyo sy-k7vme
23:10 < ybit> (ancient)
23:27 < ybit> how much does taqman cost?
23:29 < ybit> ~$75 per ?
23:30 < ybit> he cost per sample for the reagents and consumables for the TaqMan set-up was US$1.23 and US$0.66, respectively, and US$0.76 and US$0.41, respectively, ...
23:31 < ybit> linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0890850807000461
23:32 < ybit> "           We use computational methods to show that nine TaqMan primer and probe sequences, or signa-
23:32 < ybit> tures, are needed to ensure that all strains will be detected, but this is an unfeasible number, considering the
23:32 < ybit> cost of TaqMan probes.
23:32  * ybit wants specifics :)
23:37 < ybit> $222 for the taqman starter kit
23:37 < ybit> 125 reactions
23:37 < ybit> wow, that could get expensive fast
23:38 < ybit> back to reading the paper...
23:45 < ybit> are any of the reagents difficult to obtain?
23:46 < ybit> argh, copy/paste isn't working
23:46 < ybit> difficult meaning expensive and/or regulated
23:47 < ybit> i'm going to create an acronym for when someone is being lazy as i am
23:47 < ybit> 'stfw' search the fucking web