--- Day changed Sat Aug 01 2009
00:00 < fenn> maybe it's just the lojban speaking
00:02 < ybit> check out uzbl
00:03 -!- un-afk is now known as katsmeow-afk
00:03 < ybit> here's its readme: http://dpaste.com/73954/
00:04 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r4c76a2904599 /pymates/ (pymates.py test_part.py): pymates no longer completely depends on OCC
00:07 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r8c9c73aee994 /pymates/pymates.py: bah, forgot to run one last test.. fixed the run-only-pymates.py problem. running it directly requires OCC.
00:18 < fenn> huh!?!
00:19 < fenn> gah didn't i commit?
00:19 < fenn> oh fuck fuck fuck
00:20 < fenn> i really wish we could communicate better
00:21 < fenn> you should go to bed; that last commit was terrible
00:23 < fenn> i'm reverting it
00:24 < fenn> so i can fix for real
00:26 < CIA-43> skdb:  * r546984350f46 /pymates/pymates.py: Revert so i can apply real fix
00:26 < CIA-43> skdb:  * r9f37a1cf9767 /pymates/ (pymates.py test_part.py): this wasn't what i meant by 'fix it'
00:26 < CIA-43> skdb: fenn * r8b18794e31af / (17 files in 4 dirs): disentangle part/interface from pymates which requires OCC; in order to do this i had to move skdb stuff into a directory "core"; committing part.py move separately because otherwise git thinks i deleted it
00:27 < CIA-43> skdb: fenn * r3d5e9c56f048 / (10 files in 4 dirs): finish moving stuff to core and disentangling pymates
00:38 < fenn> what is inventory/media?
00:38 < fenn> jquery.js is really obnoxious when grepping
00:40 < fenn> grr
01:13 < ybit> uzbl...
01:13 < ybit> ### INTRODUCTION
01:13 < ybit>   Any program can only be really useful if it complies to the unix philosophy.
01:13 < ybit>   Web browsers are frequent violators of this principle:
01:13 < ybit> * They build in way too much things into the browser, dramatically decreasing the options to do things the way you want.
01:13 < ybit> * They store things in way too fancy formats (xml, rdf, sqlite, ... ) which are hard to store under version control, reuse in other scripts, ...
01:13 < ybit> Time to change that!
01:14 < ybit>   Here are the general ideas (not all of these are implemented perfectly yet):
01:14 < ybit> * each instance of uzbl renders 1 page (eg it's a small wrapper around webkit), no tabbing, tab previews, or speed dial things.
01:14 < ybit>   For "multiple instances management" use your window managers, scripts or wrappers.
01:14 < ybit> * very simple, plaintext , changeable at runtime configuration
01:14 < ybit> * various interfaces for (programmatic) interaction with uzbl (see below)
01:14 < ybit> * customizable keyboard shortcuts in vim or emacs style (whatever user wants)
01:14 < ybit> * "outsource" logic that is not browsing to external scripts under the users control:
01:14 < ybit>     - managing bookmarks
01:14 < ybit>     - loading a url from bookmarks, history,..  Editing the curent url
01:14 < ybit>     - control cookies
01:14 < ybit>     - handling of downloads, history logging, etc.
01:14 < ybit>     - management of cache.
01:14 < ybit>     - password management
01:14 < ybit>     - Leverage the power of utilities such as grep, awk, dmenu, zenity, wget, gnupg (password file) etc.
01:14 < ybit> * listen to signals and do useful stuff when triggered.
01:14 < ybit> * no ad blocking built in.
01:14 < ybit>   Alternatives:
01:14 < ybit>     - privoxy looks cool and perfectly demonstrates the unix philosphy.
01:14 < ybit>     - same for http://bfilter.sourceforge.net
01:14 < ybit>     - /etc/hosts (not very good cause you need root and it affects the whole system)
01:14 < ybit>       uzblctrl would need to support an option to list all images on a page, so you can easily pick the links to ads to add them to your /etc/hosts.
01:14 < ybit> * vimperator/konqueror-like hyperlink following.
01:15 < ybit> * password management. maybe an encrypted store that unlocks with an ssh key?
01:15 < ybit> * no messing in the users $HOME or in /etc: no writing of anything unless the user (or sysadmin) asks for it.
01:15 < ybit>   We recommend using XDG basedir spec for separation of config, data and cache. and state should be a subdir in the config dir (not part of the spec yet) too.
01:16 < ybit> tabs, there's a script for that
01:17 < ybit> history, there's a script for that
01:17 < ybit> bookmarks, there's even a script for that
01:17 < ybit> </ipod_pun>
01:17 < ybit> iphone*
01:30 < Phreedom> ybit: I call bullshit on this one: They store things in way too fancy formats (xml, rdf, sqlite, ... )
01:30 < Phreedom> xml and rdf are text-based
01:32 < ybit> shouldn't you be in bed Phreedom ;)
01:32 < Phreedom> ybit: no.
01:32 < Phreedom> I'm supposed to defent my lovely rdf at all costs ;)
01:32 < Phreedom> *defend
01:46 < CIA-43> skdb: fenn * r1758514f3f57 / (8 files in 3 dirs): make test_legos.py actually work
01:46 < fenn> hum it ignored the full commit message
01:47 < fenn> damn. i wanted to play with my legos but i had to get all sidetracked with stupid code stuff
01:48 < fenn> Phreedom: ever tried to diff an xml file?
01:48 < fenn> one that's been loaded and dumped
01:49 < Phreedom> fenn: on you mean automated tools?
01:49 < fenn> sometimes xml files don't even have newlines
01:49 < Phreedom> fenn: but some nice tool might just take a plaintext file with a list and then write it in another order
01:49 < Phreedom> fenn: that's why I don't like text files :)
01:49 < fenn> sure
01:50 < Phreedom> also I don't like generic diff tools
01:50 < fenn> generally you can't edit xml files by hand (unless you are insane)
01:50 < Phreedom> they don't work well for images, even svg
01:50 < fenn> or you aren't expected to, or something
01:51 < fenn> svg is xml. duh
01:51 < Phreedom> yeah, but you can't edit plaintext files by hand either
01:51 < Phreedom> you use tools
01:51 < fenn> you can't?
01:51 < Phreedom> you can't. you need to use an editor ;)
01:51 < fenn> bah
01:51 < Phreedom> oh you mean the echo thing
01:51 < Phreedom> so yeha, probably you can :)
01:52  * fenn uses a paperclip and some chewing gum
01:52 < fenn> so what do you use to diff xml files?
01:53 < fenn> i tried xmldiff and it shat all over the screen
01:53 < Phreedom> fenn: that's the hard question
01:53 < Phreedom> format-specific diff tools aren't exactly popular among the unix crowd
01:53 < fenn> i might be able to put up with it if the format-specific tools actually did what they are supposed to
01:54 < Phreedom> fenn: maybe they already do
01:54 < Phreedom> there are lots of various xmldiff proggies out there
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02:00 < fenn> kanzure: i hope you realize that by putting your email in various source files and then spreading it all over the net, that you're giving your address to spammers
02:00 < Phreedom> it's too late already
02:01 < fenn> i've noticed that spam address lists have a half life
02:01 < fenn> about 2 months
02:02 < fenn> good luck googling for that
02:05 < Phreedom> fenn: my observations of various spam bots make me doubt this
02:05 < Phreedom> I saw lots of invalid email addresses
02:05 < Phreedom> testing for email validity is rather hard
02:05 < Phreedom> and can be abused by aanti-spam guys
02:05 < genehacker> speaking of bots anyone got any resources on how to make simple irc chat bots
02:06 < Phreedom> so it's usually spammed for many years
02:06 < genehacker> I've got an idea on how we could find more of "us"
02:07 < fenn> make them?
02:07 < genehacker> no look for them
02:07 < genehacker> with bots
02:07 < genehacker> and posters
02:08 < fenn> irc recruitment bots.. sounds unethical
02:08 < ybit> genehacker: i recommended that a few weeks back
02:08 < genehacker> not recruitment bots
02:09 < ybit> or maybe it was last week
02:09 < genehacker> filter bots
02:09 < fenn> please continue explaining
02:09 < ybit> http://www.jibble.org/piespy
02:09 < ybit> genehacker ^
02:09 < genehacker> bots that test people to make sure they are the ones we're looking for
02:09 < ybit> http://www.ohloh.net/p/supybot is nice as well
02:10 < fenn> genehacker: ah like a sort of reverse turing test
02:10 < ybit> genehacker: how so
02:10 < fenn> "are you a robot? y/n"
02:10 < genehacker> more like do you know about these sorts of things
02:11 < genehacker> after all we can't advertise #hplusroadmap, things might go bad
02:11 < fenn> too late
02:11 < ybit> :P
02:11 < fenn> yarr
02:12 < genehacker> so I'd also like to have a bot monitor a certain website for prospectives
02:12 < fenn> i thought you were talking about irc bots
02:12 < genehacker> yes
02:13 < genehacker> the web bots direct the prospectives to the filter bots
02:13 < genehacker> oh my look at the time
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04:58 < splicer> A good way to promote ideas is to get articles about it published... slashdot, io9, humanity+ and so on. These days youtube clips may be even better.
05:37 < kanzure> splicer: stfu
05:37 < kanzure> splicer: my theory is that you're totally full of shit
05:39 < kanzure> fenn: imagine OCC doing "from OCC import *". this is why "import *" is a bad idea.
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05:50 < splicer> kanzure: where did that come from?
05:51 < kanzure> splicer: you said "A good way to promote ideas is to get articles about it published... slashdot, io9, humanity+ and so on."
05:52 < splicer> yeah... why does that make me full of shit
05:53 < kanzure> it's a pattern
05:53 < splicer> no it was an answer to a question higher up in the thread
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05:58 < El_Matarife> http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3151995
05:59 < El_Matarife> >http://www.ntcncug.com/index.htm
05:59 < El_Matarife> I had no idea there was any CNC IRC communities
05:59 < El_Matarife> I suggested one on Joes CNC forum
05:59 < El_Matarife> but no one really noticed
06:00 < El_Matarife> I'm considering just starting a plain #cnc channel on SynIRC
06:00 < kanzure> see #cam, #emc, #reprap, ##engineering, ##electronics
06:00 < kanzure> (on freenode)
06:16 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r8006ece868ee / (7 files in 4 dirs): make various tests work
06:17 < El_Matarife> I am thinking about starting a just plain #CNC IRC channel on Freenode or SynIRC
06:17 < El_Matarife> for discussion of all things CNC, mills, lathes, 5 / 6 axis machines
06:17 < El_Matarife> Even CNC sewing machines
06:18 < kanzure> what's wrong with #cam for that?
06:18 < El_Matarife> anything automated that takes Gcode
06:18 < El_Matarife> I don't know, but CAM may be more on the PC side than the physical device side
06:18 < kanzure> also, why am I awake
06:18 < kanzure> well, the people in there are hardly "on one side"
06:19 < kanzure> but anyway, if you can get more cnc users on irc, all the better I guess
06:19 < El_Matarife> I agree
06:19 < El_Matarife> Going to start forum whoring on Joe's site since I've got a forums account
06:19 < El_Matarife> Maybe LumenLab too
06:19 < El_Matarife> Still need to buy my "pro" membership at LumenLab
08:17  * kanzure git clone git://github.com/Dieterbe/uzbl.git
08:21 < kanzure> would be nice to get pyscholar working with uzbl
08:21 < kanzure> when I looked into webkit last year, for some reason I wasn't able to get as far as uzbl
08:22 < kanzure> hm http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/WebKitTools/GtkLauncher/main.c
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08:33 < kanzure> huh installing webkit forces me to remove gnome and gnome-desktop?
08:33 < kanzure> why am I using gnome?
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09:01 < kanzure> ok can finally make uzbl
09:06 < drazak> rawr
09:10 < kanzure> wow I love uzbl
09:10 < kanzure> ybit: thank you
09:12  * drazak sits on kanzure until he fixes pyscholar
09:16 < kanzure> tarbo2: I see you're already in #uzbl
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09:28 < kanzure> er why doesn't nehe.gamedev.net have any standard STL file loaders?
09:28 < kanzure> this is something that I would expect to be in one of the first few tutorials
09:30 < kanzure> oh well. guess I can plot my own vertices through the OpenGL pipeline
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09:55 < kanzure> I guess there's http://web.media.mit.edu/~neilg/fab/dist/cam.py and read_STL() from that file
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10:55 < kanzure> uzbl is exceedingly awesome
10:55 < kanzure> todo: port "xpather" and some other tools over to uzbl/webkit
10:55 < kanzure> the idea should be that you only have to view a website only ever once
10:56 < kanzure> if you want to write a scraper, then your "browsing experience" should naturally lead to producing the scraper
10:56 < kanzure> such as highlighting where on the page the "information" is and what the attributes should be called
11:00 < kanzure> does webkit support xpaths?
11:01 < kanzure> http://www.openajax.org/runtime/wiki/XPath_Support  "#  Webkit: Starting from 3.0, Webkit has DOM XPath support built-in." well there you go
11:03 < kanzure> http://webkitgtk.org/reference/index.html
11:04 < kanzure> is there a way to do side-by-side comparison of different versions of an API with doxygen?
11:07 < kanzure>     *
11:07 < kanzure> git clone git://git.webkit.org/WebKit.git WebKit 
11:13 < kanzure> huh, demonoid sucks
11:14 < kanzure> WebKit.git is 124 MB and only 14% complete?
11:14 < kanzure> what sort of madness is this?
11:18 < kanzure> 636 MB in total. huh.. well anyway, it's on adl/davinci now, so I'll have to remember to grab a copy
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11:25 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r7c0fa333ef83 /import_tools/ (read_STL.py write_STL.py): import tools for reading/writing STL files
11:25 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r6f3ea9adf781 /import_tools/ (5 files): pyvtk STL visualizer
11:26 < kanzure> the STL visualizer was hidden on davinci:~/bioreactor/viz.py
11:26 < drazak> USELESS
11:26 < drazak> they give Ta and Cycles in this paper
11:26 < kanzure> drazak: well I'm booted up now and am able to do coding
11:26 < kanzure> however my remaining family is going to be coming by and taking me away
11:27 < drazak> but they don't do delta(Ct) or delta)delta(2^(ct)))
11:27 < kanzure> what?
11:27 < kanzure> a graph of the change in celsius temperature?
11:27 < kanzure> Ct is what?
11:27 < drazak> no
11:27 < drazak> in qrt-pcr
11:27 < drazak> ct is cycles taken to change from log growth to exponential growth
11:28 < drazak> the delta is relative to gapdh
11:28 < kanzure> name yer variables fool
11:28 < drazak> it's a standard variable in biology
11:29 < kanzure> what's the actual name of it?
11:30 < drazak> cycles taken
11:30 < drazak> :P
11:35 < drazak> wtf does #NAME mean in excel/open spreadsheet
11:37 < kanzure> click it and you should see a value that expands somewhere
11:37 < kanzure> god why do I know this
11:37 < drazak> didn't work, I fixed it though
11:37 < drazak> regardless:
11:37 < drazak> this paper is motherfucking useless
11:37 < drazak> it doesn't actually say anything
11:37 < drazak> and then gives raw data
11:40 < drazak> and Dr. Lee said this was a good paper
11:40 < drazak> bullshit
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12:35 < kanzure> if I do this in vtk, I think I need to use VTKStlReader()'s SetInputConnection() but then I need a filter of some sort
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13:17 < kanzure> pipes screensaver: http://vpython.org/contents/contributed/pipes.py
13:20 < kanzure> pyODE + vpython -> visualization of joints http://vpython.org/contents/contributed/visualjoints.py
13:24 < kanzure> hm.. /usr/share/doc/python-visual/examples/lathe.py - "create a surface of revolution out of slices that are convex objects"
13:25 < kanzure> there's also gyro.py
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14:23 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r9f77c8c518e7 / (6 files in 2 dirs): added yet another really slow way of visualizing lego STL files (this time using vpython)
14:24 < kanzure> how to convert from BNF grammars to python: http://eikke.com/pyparsing-introduction-bnf-to-code/
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16:11 < kanzure> display.ExportToImage(filepath)
16:11 < kanzure> exports as BMP
16:17 < kanzure> http://singularityu.org/news/2009/07/su-names-gsp-09-students/
16:17 < kanzure> profiles of students silly enough to go to Singularity University
16:17 < fenn> i wouldnt mind going there, but isn't it like $14k for a week of classes?
16:18 < kanzure> $30k for 6 weeks
16:20 < kanzure> fenn: see skdb/import_tools/STL_pyvtk_visualizer.py - this loads STL files just about 'instantly'
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16:34 < fenn> vtk's viewer controls are really funky
16:54 < fenn> supposedly geomview does "save as postscript"
16:58 < kanzure> meh, imagemagick can convert any image to postscript or pdf or whatever else is today's latest craze
16:58 < fenn> bullshit
16:59 < kanzure> ?
16:59 < fenn> there's not enough information in the image to reconstruct the exact original vectors
16:59 < kanzure> postscript doesn't allow images?
16:59 < fenn> and imagemagick probably just stuffs an image in the .ps file anyway
16:59 < kanzure> right
16:59 < fenn> which is NOT cool
16:59 < kanzure> postscript is crap like that
16:59 < kanzure> :p
16:59 < fenn> geomview actually renders the vectors in postscript
17:03 < fenn> i cant figure out what sort of files it wants to load though
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17:42 < kanzure> all I wanted to be able to do was flip some freaking legos up on the screen without having to categorize lots of STEP files myself
17:42 < kanzure> blah
17:43 < kanzure> fenn: did you write your new legos ontology yet?
17:54 < genehacker> are you doing technic?
17:55 < kanzure> yes
17:55 < genehacker> AWESOME
18:02 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r4efd5a6ef902 / (doc/todo/pymates-todo packages/README packages/readme): todo, cleaned up all-caps filenames
18:11 < kanzure> pioneers of industrial espionage: http://www.nbh.hu/english/bmenu94.htm
18:14 < kanzure> "The secret of the mechanism was spread around in continental Europe by Joseph Emanuel Fischer von Erlach, who constructed an identical copy of the English steam engine. Fischer was one of Europe's great master builders. He had learnt the trade from his father, Johann Bernhard Fischer von Erlach who, being one of the most famous Austrian master builders, was even better known than his son. ":"
18:14 < katsmeow-afk> builder or copier?
18:14 < kanzure> huh?
18:14 < katsmeow-afk> Erlach rings a bell, don't remember why
18:15 < katsmeow-afk> "von Erlach, who constructed an identical copy of the English steam engine" <<== copier, not design engineer
18:19 < kanzure> dumpster diving for industrial espionage http://www.xconomy.com/2007/09/19/dumpster-diving-detectives-and-tales-of-industrial-espionage-court-filings-reveal-twists-and-turns-of-irobot-robotic-fx-case/
18:23 < kanzure> fun story:
18:23 < kanzure> http://www.wright.edu/rsp/Security/V1comput/Case1.htm
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18:26 < any44526899> storms tonite
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18:38 < kanzure> bah? http://www.me.utexas.edu/intranet/
18:39 < kanzure> hahh
18:39 < kanzure> http://www.me.utexas.edu/intranet/?p=29
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18:54 < kanzure> http://www.me.utexas.edu/test_folder/
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19:18 < kanzure> what?
19:18 < kanzure> http://146.6.83.129/
19:20 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/user/TimSilverman
19:52 < kanzure> http://www.me.utexas.edu/community/ans/
19:52 < kanzure> password is "password"?
19:54 < kanzure> http://www.me.utexas.edu/community/ben-yakar/
19:54 < kanzure> that has some interesting information on it
19:54 < kanzure> "femtosecond laser nanosurgery lab"
19:54 < kanzure> bah
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20:04 < kanzure> http://www.me.utexas.edu/community/ercuploads/facilities.pdf
20:05 < kanzure> another document in that same dir lists requested funds for particular instruments
20:05 < kanzure> it's very high.. for just about everything.
20:06 < kanzure> "The amount requested from NSF for the proposed project is $17,000,000 over a period of
20:06 < kanzure> five years. The budget is comprised of the following items listed in decreasing order of
20:06 < kanzure> cost:
20:06 < kanzure> "
20:06 < kanzure> equipment list, year1: 500 watt Nd YAG laser: $110,000
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20:11 < kanzure> interconnect & packaging research group:
20:11 < kanzure> http://www.me.utexas.edu/community/ho/
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20:19 < kanzure> M. J. Moran and K. M. Marshek. 1972. Some matrix aspects of generalized dimensional analysis. J. Eng. Math, 6 (3), 291-303. (Also published in: Trans.16th Conf., U.S. Army Mathematicians, ARO-D Rep. 1971-72, U.S. Army Research Office, Durham, North Carolina.)
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20:36 < kanzure> http://www.me.utexas.edu/community/realsurvivors/
20:36 < kanzure> hah
20:36 < kanzure> "BREAST CANCER SURVIVORS .. NEED YOUR HELP."
20:36 < kanzure> "Study of the biomechanical properties of healthy female breasts."
20:36 < kanzure> " Our objective is to characterize the breast tissue properties relevant to creating a patient-specific digital simulation necessary for computer-assisted intervention in women with breast cancer."
20:36 < kanzure> "    *
20:36 < kanzure> Background and Significance
20:36 < kanzure> The breast is a mobile, dynamic structure."
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21:52 < drazak> kanzure: is it fixed?
21:58 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Explore/web-index.txt
22:00 < drazak> kanzure: is that a no?
22:00 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/list_of_BiO_related_domain_names.list
22:01 < drazak> another implied no
22:02 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/temp.txt
22:05 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/the_history_of_BiO.htm
22:05 < kanzure> "In 1998, Biomatics lab moved to Boston. I have set up various machines in George Church's lab in the Genetics dept. of Harvard. There, essentially, all my BiO concepts were established and solidified. I was serving many BiO concepts. Scientifically, it was the time I was moving from structomics to broader biomatics (essentially every aspect of BiO). I started to register a lot of BioXXX domains since I found cheap internet domain registration sites (later Totalnic.com registered domains had a big problems due to the company's dishonest practice, I lost a lot of domains because of that)."
22:06 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/virtual_host_entry_20061004.txt
22:06 < kanzure> hah
22:06 < fenn> kanzure warns me that the above link contains ~21000 lines, beware
22:07 < fenn> "Biomatics was defined by me as the combination of biology, mathematics, informatics, philosophy, and engineering. I wanted to have a field that was broader and deeper than biotechnology and more practical than biosophy."
22:09 < kanzure> make_subio_thumbnails_of_picture_from_jpeg_files_using_djpeg_recursively.pl
22:09 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/make_subio_thumbnails_of_picture_from_jpeg_files_using_djpeg_recursively.pl
22:11 < fenn> I have set up a server at my BioHouse (the first biohouse in the world: 33 Ashbury Close, Cambridge, CB1 3RW, UK. The biohouse was also called the cockpit of Earth
22:11 < kanzure> add_virtual_hosts_in_apache_httpd_conf_file_for_BiO_domains.pl
22:12 < kanzure> add_CNAME_hosts_in_biocc_domain_zone_file_in_var_named_biocczone.pl
22:13 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/what_are_bioXXX_projects.htm
22:13 < kanzure> "(and some new ones that you are going to create! :-)(and some new ones that you are going to create! :-)"
22:15 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Explore/what/
22:19 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Explore/what/Think/Ideas/copytheft.html
22:20 < drazak> COPYLEFT
22:21 < xp_prg> kanzure I love it when you talk opensource man!
22:22 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Explore/what/Programs/
22:22 < kanzure> nice "Maya" folder
22:28 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Explore/what/Write/my_own_reference.txt
22:29 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Explore/what/Write/Txt/
22:39 < fenn> XV00VX or XV0VX
22:39 < fenn> for yahoo crap
22:39 < fenn> or something
22:39 < fenn> or maybe those are O's and my font sucks
22:40 < fenn> http://www.get-a-name.com/XV00VX 
22:43 < kanzure> xv0i0vx is another one of his usernames
23:04 < fenn> zzzz..
23:06 < fenn> kanzure: you know rauchwerk is associated with harkopen right?
23:09 < fenn> um, or maybe not
23:09 < fenn> apparently they know of him though
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