--- Day changed Tue Aug 11 2009
00:00 < ybit> let's see..
00:01 < ybit> adventureland, sunshine cleaning, the midnight meat train, slumdog millionaire, rpm, deathbed, 
00:02 < ybit> and yes, they are mostly talking about what time to meetup to go see these movies at a theater
00:02 < ybit> that's from the log, only 2% into it
00:02 < ybit> bah, time for bed
00:02  * ybit doesn't care for complaining anymore
00:04 < genehacker> oh dear
00:04 < genehacker> that's not a maker's club
00:05 < genehacker> dang that's not even sci-fi
00:06 < genehacker> those conversations can not be redirected toward something productive
00:06 < strages> ybit: seriously?
00:07 < ybit> strages: cereal as cereal can be
00:07 < strages> you haven't been to our shop
00:07 < ybit> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cereal
00:07 < strages> judging us over irc banter is pretty lame
00:08 < ybit> "no guy, i'm totally cereal right now" -al gore, family guy ep.?
00:08 < strages> did it ever occur to you that the people in there conversing aren't the ones out in the real world doing?
00:08 < ybit> s/guy/guys
00:09 < ybit> meh
00:09 < genehacker> recommended course of action: remove local movie theater
00:09 < genehacker> recommended course of action is possibly illegal
00:09 < strages> or remove those in the channel giving us a bad name, sheesh
00:09 < ybit> it's difficult to find locals that are interested in linux interested in anything interesting
00:10 < genehacker> do they have to be interested in linux?
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00:11 < strages> ybit: I'm interested in robotics, augmented reality, open manufacturing, origami, geocaching
00:11 < ybit> let's see, found a guy who runs ubuntu and admins a few linux machines whatever distro they run, i mention creating a hackspace and he mentions wanting to have music there... one guy i introduced linux to turned to a mac eventually, another guy who has arch linux, uses awesome wm is majoring in political science..
00:11 < genehacker> make an origami augmented reality setup that is automatically assembled by robots that assists in geocaching
00:11 < ybit> so yeah, i'm sure most of the guys in #makerslocal are idiots too
00:12 < genehacker> people in IRC are
00:12 < strages> ybit: sheesh, you're judging us based on completely different people from us?
00:12 < ybit> strages: follow the diyh+ mailing list, you'll like it
00:12 < strages> got a link to it?
00:13 < ybit> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2Fdiytranshumanist&ei=l_2ASqmvHeGTtgf_2fjRCg&usg=AFQjCNEE3GAPlv1hT0Tj-wj_4k0uzgd0pQ&sig2=1PedtkhZugwb7uWwhAW7wQ
00:13 < ybit> groups.google.com/group/diytranshumanist
00:13 < strages> ybit: have you been to our shop or seen our wiki?
00:13 < ybit> strages: eh?
00:14 < ybit> oh, you're from #makerslocal :P
00:14 < strages> yes
00:14 < ybit> wow
00:14 < ybit> now there are 3 people in here from alabama
00:14 < strages> and read all the bad things you said about us
00:14 < ybit> i don't care, it's true and ya know it
00:14 < strages> who's the third?
00:14 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: 
00:14 < strages> ybit: it is not, how do you know?
00:15 < ybit> i have logs to prove this
00:15 < strages> irc doesn't prove shit
00:15 < ybit> umm.. these are logs.. to prove that the channel mostly talks about bs
00:15 < ybit> let's see.. when did you join this channel...
00:16 < strages> check the frequency of chatter per user
00:16 < ybit> what about it?
00:16 < strages> your logs will show that there are a few loud and lazy people in there
00:17 < ybit> hmm.. sometime after june
00:17 < strages> the rest are out working on things and see each other in person daily at our hackerspace
00:17 < ybit> grr, /me doesn't want to cat logs
00:17 < strages> then don't, trust me instead
00:17 < ybit> well then, strages nice to meet you on irc
00:18 < strages> I suggest coming to our hackerspace sometime and checking out our wiki https://256.makerslocal.org/wiki/index.php
00:19 < strages> lots of bright folks there working on projects
00:19 < ybit> july 11 is the date i have you as joining..
00:19 < strages> hit up nykodemus, crashcart, or ratmandu in a private conversation sometime
00:19 < ybit> how'd you find out about this channel?
00:20 < strages> kanzure was in #makerslocal I got to talking to him about things and how he found our channel and he led me hear and to the open manufacturing mailing list
00:20 < strages> *here
00:21 < ybit> heh, nice. kanzure, what were you doing there? :P
00:21 < strages> apparently you mentioned our channel in here before and he followed
00:22 < ybit> afk for a sec
00:22 < strages> I also started #hackerspaces as a central point for talking to various hackerspaces listed on hackerspaces.org
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00:28 < ybit> and i'm back
00:30 < ybit> strages: i'm highly relieved to be proven wrong that not the entire channel is full of idiots and that there are some sane people nearby
00:31 < ybit> strages, katsmeow is also any83313030 
00:31 < strages> there are lots, we're just too busy to irc all that much lol
00:31 < strages> ah ok, good to know
00:32 < ybit> busy doing what exactly...
00:32 < strages> I'm organizing a hackerspaces meetup next month, sept 18-20.  hackerspaces from all over are coming to visit for the weekend and try and organize a hackerspaces con for the following year
00:32 < strages> hopefully here in huntsville
00:33 < strages> two makerbots are being brought by other spaces to the event
00:33 < strages> and a mcwire cartesian table
00:33 < ybit> let's see, you'll need to be in touch with the atl group if you haven't already, they'll be interested
00:33 < strages> I have been in touch with them and the nashville space
00:34 < strages> there's a space from quebec driving down
00:34 < ybit> nashville?
00:34 < strages> two from florida, one from kansas, one from washington dc, and other from texas
00:34 < ybit> link to nashville group please
00:34 < strages> hackerconsortium is in nashville
00:35 < strages> http://hackerconsortium.com/
00:36 < strages> I've been working on augmented reality badges for the meetup and trying to finish my multitouch table and automated blimp
00:36 < strages> who knows what all I'll get done in time
00:36 < ybit> hrm
00:37 < strages> at the space we have arduino folks, a guy who knows just the chipset the arduino uses, and we have a boat load of stepper motors
00:38 < strages> I want to make a large area 3 axis table that I can change out the head one
00:38 < ybit> so how exactly do you plan on creating ar badges, the attendees will need the equipment to view this stuff
00:38 < strages> all the attendees will need is the webcam built into their laptop or to use one of the stations we'll have setup
00:39 < strages> we're using FLARtoolkit on a website to handle the AR stuff
00:39 < ybit> an ar badge is just a blank space with some color encompassing the edges 
00:40 < ybit> so, paper with something like a colored strip of paper on top
00:40  * ybit really isn't this crule in person, it's the irc that does it to me
00:41 < ybit> the black void which is the cli
00:41 < strages> well it'll have a glyph one it
00:42 < strages> black bordered box with a symbol int he center recognized by the software and then replaced with something of our choosing on the computer screen
00:42 < strages> some call them markers
00:43 < genehacker> ar badges?
00:43 < ybit> augmented reality
00:43 < genehacker> got cardstock and a printer handy?
00:43 < ybit> you know... covention badges..
00:43 < genehacker> that's all you need
00:43 < strages> ybit: I am curious as to this colored stripe AR stuff you're referring to
00:43 < genehacker> yeah
00:43 < genehacker> I know
00:43 < genehacker> ARtoolkit
00:43 < genehacker> use it
00:43 < genehacker> hope it works well
00:43 < ybit> usually geeks have them hanging around their neck or something at conventions :)
00:44 < strages> ah
00:44 < strages> I see what you did there
00:44 < ybit> ?
00:45 < strages> genehacker: yeah we'll be using the flash implementation of artoolkit, which is based off nyartoolkit, a java based one
00:46 < ybit> so what kind of projects at makerslocal
00:47 < ybit> strages^
00:47 < strages> we made a portable full sized photobooth that folds up
00:48 < ybit> interesting
00:48 < ybit> anything else?
00:48 < ybit> a list of them on the wiki perhaps?
00:48 < strages> linux based, and we plan to opensource the design and software
00:48 < strages> ybit they are on our wiki
00:48 < ybit> linux based, kind of a no brainer :P
00:48 < ybit> strages: link?
00:49 < strages> https://256.makerslocal.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
00:49 < strages> also http://256.makerslocal.org is our blog
00:50 < ybit> so essentially what you just mentioned, ar, multitouch screen, photobooth
00:50 < ybit> and other little hacks
00:50 < strages> yes mostly
00:50 < strages> BEAMbots
00:51 < strages> our usb authenticated door system, which is currently down
00:51 < strages> laptop running the authentication went south on us
00:51 < genehacker> USB AUTHENTICATED DOOR SYSTEM?
00:52 < genehacker> documentation?
00:52 < ybit> none
00:52 < ybit> atm i'm assuming
00:52 < genehacker> we could use one of those here
00:52 < genehacker> oh shoot
00:52 < ybit> details though would be nice
00:52 < strages> genehacker: https://256.makerslocal.org/wiki/index.php/USB_Auth
00:53 < strages> ybit: seriously stop jumping the gun on being so pessemistic about us
00:53 < strages> genehacker: we're working on a standalone version of it without the need for the pc to authenticate
00:54 < ybit> it's the cli strages, it happens to the best of us
00:54 < genehacker> ok cool
00:54 < genehacker> let us know when you are finished
00:55 < genehacker> perhaps we could set up the same system over all other hackerspaces
00:55 < strages> in a nutshell, every usb key has a unique id stored on a chip in it.  we use that to identify a person, a pc tells a microcontroller to turn a servo attached to the deadbolt on the door
00:56 < strages> I'm not going to say it's a fool proof means of access, but it works pretty well
00:56 < genehacker> it need not be fool proof
00:56 < strages> someone looses their "key" we erase the id from the db  and reauthenticate a new one
00:57 < genehacker> any people capable of hacking in might be of interest to you
00:57 < genehacker> just let us know how it works out
00:57 < strages> we have figured out how to completely clone someone's thumbdrive, but it's not easy and requires some specific hardware
00:57 < strages> we've been using it for about a year now, it works pretty well
00:57 < genehacker> therefore people with that hardware might be useful to you
00:58 < genehacker> ok then
00:58 < strages> correct
00:58 < genehacker> documentation please?
00:58 < strages> it's on the wiki link I posted
00:58 < genehacker> ok
00:58 < genehacker> kanzure
00:58 < strages> even the code both for the arduino and for the pc
00:59 < strages> we made hackaday with it last october
00:59 < genehacker> your link to that diy taq thing is broken
00:59 < genehacker> then I presume it is fairly well documented
00:59 < strages> accept the certificate
00:59 < genehacker> cool
00:59 < ybit> strages: a friend of mine who is now in chicago was working on the same thing ~3 years ago... i should email him to see how far that came along
00:59 < strages> firefox hates cacerts for some reason
01:00 < ybit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKTXRlaXLDQ
01:00 < strages> ybit: please do, I'd be interested in hearing about his work
01:00 < ybit> is my alsa config fucked or is there really just no audio
01:00 < strages> your alsa config is fucked up
01:00  * ybit guesses the alsa-config due to mocp mucking around
01:01 < ybit> nope, just mplayer thinking it would be cute to mute pcm
01:01 < strages> shit it's 1am, I need to go to bed
01:01 < strages> work and all in the morning
01:02 < strages> we'll talk more, and I'll happily answer any questions
01:04 < ybit> that reminds me, ncp needs to be configured properly on this machine :)
01:05 < ybit> any question?
01:05 < ybit> so when's the rfid version of this coming out?
01:06 -!- any83313030 is now known as katsmeow-afk
01:06 < strages> there won't be one, but the idea has been brought up in the past and I have a full rfid kit at the space for people to experiment with
01:06 < strages> including an implantable one
01:07 < ybit> nice 
01:07 < ybit> alright, time for bed
03:10 < bkero> Did you guys see that stross conversation that got /.ed?
03:18 < genehacker> ???
03:25 < katsmeow-afk> 1 machine, 4 weeks now enough to sequence human genome
03:25 < katsmeow-afk> Researchers have used a new machine that sequences millions of small DNA fragments in parallel to cover 90 percent of one individual's genome in only four weeks.
03:25 < katsmeow-afk> By John Timmer | Last updated August 10, 2009 2:15 PM CT
03:25 < katsmeow-afk> http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/08/human-genome-completed-using-one-machine-for-four-weeks.ars
03:27 < katsmeow-afk> scientists from the Universities of Nottingham and Southampton demonstrate a technique that allows the electrodeposition of 3nm copper lines : Last updated August 10, 2009 4:05 PM CT : http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/08/researches-create-3-nm-wiring-with-supercritical-fluids.ars
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06:13 < drazak> ok
06:13 < drazak> so what is the link between diybio and synthetic biology
06:13 < drazak> it seems counterintuitive
06:14 < drazak> synbio requires a very high level of knowledge about biology, it requires expensive reagents, complicated protocals, potentially BSL2
06:53 < kanzure> exactly
06:59 < kanzure> genehacker, the diy taq thing is copied in the email
07:01 < kanzure> here's that robot inventory system using small little turtles: http://www.kivasystems.com/demo/index.html
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09:02 < strages> kanzure: looks kind of like what zappos.com uses in their warehouse
09:03 < drazak> kanzure: like my last two diybio posts?
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09:50 < drazak> kanzure: :D
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10:05 < kanzure> chimpanzees spend on average six hours a day chewing
10:07 < kanzure> fenn: my mom will be bringing by some boxes of legos soon
10:07 -!- drazak is now known as draz|lab
10:08 < draz|lab> kanzure: so, you totally understood me properly
10:08 < kanzure> apparently she didn't throw them away
10:08 < draz|lab> kanzure: I think the diybio community doesn't know shit for shinola about how to actually do biology
10:08 < draz|lab> you don't just one day say: LETS MAKE SYNTHETIC CELLS
10:11  * kanzure was looking for an ontology of biology protocols to append to fenn's taxonomy of manufacturing techniques
10:11 < kanzure> but unfortunately nobody seems to have one
10:11 < kanzure> there was one from protocol-online.org, but it's hiddeously (un)organized
10:12 < draz|lab> I have a western blotting protocal that I can give you
10:12 < draz|lab> WITH PICTURES
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10:32 < ybit> draz|lab: link?
10:35 < CIA-38> brain: kanzure master * r3b0a312 / genes.yaml : sequence identification of 2,375 human brain genes - yay venter - http://bit.ly/164vTm
10:42 < draz|lab> ybit: I'll email it to ya'll
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11:12  * ybit can't figure out why escitalopram | antomoxetine would prevent one from sleeping normally
11:14 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/docs/papers/Antidepressants%20and%20their%20effect%20on%20sleep.pdf
11:14 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/docs/papers/The%20effect%20of%20escitalopram%20on%20sleep%20problems%20in%20depressed%20patients.pdf
11:14 < ybit> also..
11:15 < ybit> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/unsorted/The%20effect%20of%20escitalopram%20on%20sleep%20problems%20in%20depressed%20patients.pdf
11:15 < ybit> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/unsorted/Antidepressants%20and%20their%20effect%20on%20sleep.pdf
11:16  * ybit was thinking last night it would be nice to have a network of rsync mirrors for papers of interest
11:17 < ybit> papers, books, and possibly other
11:19 < fenn> sounds like it's making you even more depressed than usual (based on reading last night's logs)
11:24 < ybit> more of an asshole than usual would be the description
11:25 < strages> I'll say :p
11:25 < ybit> :P
11:34 < kanzure> um, what should I be doing right now?
11:34 < fenn> draz|lab: the link is iGEM
11:35 < fenn> the idea here being "biobricks are so easy anyone can do it"
11:35 < fenn> and besides, what else are you going to do with a bio lab? make petri dish paintings?
11:35 < kanzure> iGEM isn't about biolabs
11:36 < kanzure> so that's the wrong question, fenn
11:36  * ybit thought it was assumed that you have a decent knowledge of bio before participating or developing for diybio
11:36 < kanzure> we need a competition that glorifies lab setups
11:37 < ybit> ^re:diybio isn't synbio
11:37 < kanzure> where big bulky proprietary equipment is --
11:37 < kanzure> now I demand you tell me what I should be doing
11:37 < fenn> http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/images/thumbnail1.php/bcb9b685.jpg
11:38 < fenn> photosynthetic bacteria
11:38 < kanzure> that's what I should be doing?
11:38 < fenn> kanzure: why don't you just save some time and energy and hot rod your truck
11:38 < kanzure> my what?
11:38 < fenn> lots of chrome and flames
11:38 < kanzure> huh?
11:39 < fenn> sigh.. nevermind
11:39 < kanzure> why do you think it matters what a lab looks like?
11:39 < fenn> 'we need a competitino that glorifies big bulky proprietary equipment'
11:39 < kanzure> did I say that?
11:40 < ybit> third time's a charm?
11:40 < fenn> well, didn't you?
11:40 < ybit> no
11:40 < ybit> "where big bulky proprietary equipment is --"
11:40 < kanzure> this is not hard to understand
11:40 < ybit> i'm guessing -- == mising
11:40 < ybit> missing*
11:40 < ybit> devoid
11:40 < fenn> define "--"
11:40 < kanzure> fenn: learn your operators.
11:41 < kanzure> out of context I guess it wouldn't make sense
11:41 < ybit> like ++ but opposite me guesses
11:41 < fenn> some people use -- as a separator
11:41 < kanzure> that's true
11:41 < kanzure> okay
11:41 < ybit> and it's a comment in haskell 
11:41 < kanzure> now tell me what I'm supposed to be doing
11:41 < kanzure> honestly I'm completely clueless
11:42 < ybit> create a todo.org so you won't be clueless like this again
11:42 < kanzure> I looked at my todo lists, but they suck
11:42  * fenn looks at the todo list
11:42 < fenn> update skdb/TODO to reflect what has been done
11:43 < fenn> hah
11:43 < kanzure> you mean skdb/doc/todo/TODO ?
11:43 < fenn> yeah
11:45 < fenn> also, install pythonOCC on leibniz
11:46 < kanzure> pythonOCC isn't installed on leibniz? wtf
11:46 < kanzure> how .. er.. um.
11:46 < fenn> it runs in place but you can't import it
11:46 < kanzure> huh, okay
11:55 < CIA-38> skdb: kanzure * r 3e86655a8d9f /doc/todo/TODO: metatodo is confusing. cleaned up todo.
11:58 < fenn> aww. no completed items? how will i ever get a sense of true accomplishment without little ascii art checkboxes?
11:59 < kanzure> do you want little ascii art checkboxes?
11:59 < fenn> i don't know
11:59 < fenn> maybe they should be moved to a 'features' page or something
11:59 < kanzure> orgs mode is probably the closest thing to a shareable todo file format
12:00 < kanzure> hnb has this todo file format, but it's XML, hnb hasn't been maintained in half a decade, and it sucks
12:00 < kanzure> my old format sucked, and this new yamlification of it also sucks
12:01 < fenn> i dont care much about the format as long as it's not XML
12:01 < fenn> basically i was just complaining about the 'accomplishments' just disappearing
12:02  * fenn makes a new file 'doc/features'
12:02 < fenn> hm
12:02 < fenn> or should it go in readme?
12:03 < kanzure> changelog?
12:03 < fenn> changelogs suck
12:03 < fenn> they always end up being git log > changelog
12:07 < draz|lab> fenn: all I was saying in my email is that if synbip is the way the diybio is going to go, then it's not going to be easy
12:07 < draz|lab> that's kinda what I was trying to get out, I think
12:07 < fenn> well, i hope you're wrong
12:10 < fenn> omg i'm reading campbell/kurtoglu's "taxonomy" and apparently electrical/mechanical energy is an "object" and wire/gear is a "medium"?
12:13 < kanzure> what? "If it weren't for Ben Goertzel, Second Life would be a red herring. The Cosmic Engineers need to take a page from Bryan Bishop's playbook."
12:13 < kanzure> wrldpc2: huh?
12:14 < wrldpc2> You're actually doing shit.
12:18 < fenn> what are the licensing stipulations for mechmate? (is it even legal to repackage the design files?)
12:21 < kanzure> not sure
12:34 < kanzure> john cumbers got married? apparently his "best man" was mackenzie
12:36 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 8d05e9468235 /doc/todo/TODO: inevitable TODO list bloat.. i tried to add verbs :(
12:37 < fenn> dammit i didnt mean to add stuff to that
12:40 < draz|lab> kanzure: who the fuck is taking shit from your playbook?
12:41 < draz|lab> and what playbook is this
12:41 < draz|lab> and where can I find it
12:42 < fenn> s/playbook/hnb/
12:42 < fenn> seriously though, this channel is basically formed around the idea of a giant todo list
12:45 < CIA-38> skdb: kanzure * r 493a3e563292 /doc/todo/TODO: some more fixes, various links that were requested
12:46 < wrldpc2> lolwtf
12:46 < kanzure> well that was a completely useless exercise
12:47 < kanzure> fenn: did you fix your mating code yet?
12:49 < fenn> no, i need leibniz to do that
12:50 < kanzure> ok done
12:50 < kanzure> hm nevermind
12:50 < fenn> "screenshot gallery generator" is what the djangit/views/3d stuff was about
12:50 < kanzure> sort of
12:50 < fenn> no?
12:51 < kanzure> there was also the other app I made that generated screenshots from a file directory
12:51 < kanzure> but it wouldn't be able to run on djangit unless the server had an X session going
12:51 < fenn> oh. damn
12:51 < fenn> we gotta find a way around that
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12:56 < kanzure> hm the build is failing on leibniz
12:56 < kanzure> might as well start from scratch
12:56 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r c456a5256ce1 /readme: kind of a short feature list
12:58 < kanzure> maybe we should be spending this time trying to come up with a fucking clue for how to do unit tests for interface mating
12:58 < fenn> reminds me of that's what i'm doing
12:58 < fenn> heh
12:58 < kanzure> did you complete the whole "let a part have multiple transforms at once" deal so that we don't continue to overwrite Part.shapes[0] ?
12:59 < fenn> sorta
12:59 < kanzure> how does it (not) work?
12:59 < fenn> i just stick the gp_Trsf in part.transform
12:59 < kanzure> meh
12:59 < kanzure> I guess there needs to be a way to ask for the interface point but also the interface point given the transform, etc.
13:00 < fenn> then display BRepblahblah(part.shapes, part.transform).Shape()
13:00 < fenn> the absolute location of the interface will change depending where the part is
13:00 < kanzure> that's not entirely evident at the moment
13:00 < kanzure> evident from the attribute names and so on, I mean
13:01 < fenn> the attribute names kinda suck anyway
13:02  * fenn typed "interface1" enough times yesterday
13:05 < kanzure> so how exactly do unit tests for this sort of thing work anyway?
13:05 < kanzure> do we check whether or not the cross products are correct?
13:07 < kanzure> how do we check whether or not the result of the two rotations and one translation is "correct" ?
13:07 < kanzure> and then we can throw in all sorts of edge cases to play around with that check
13:07 < kanzure> mostly I've been doing visual confirmation but that's only because I have run out of ideas
13:13 < kanzure> ping pong
13:14 < kanzure> I guess we could check whether or not two interface points end up being in the correct locations after applying a transform, or something
13:14 < kanzure> and then test it for all six sides of a cube, or something
13:31 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-41-223.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:33 < genehacker> posted that on diybio
13:35 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 8e810d7d933e /packages/lego/grammar.yaml: now they are !lego_interface objects again
13:35 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 997a34b8d8a4 /__init__.py: allow skdb to run without OCC
13:35 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 1f4a28a9a48e /packages/lego/ (interfaces.py lego.py test_legos.py): clean up some bit rot
13:35 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 6e7d4833769f / (doc/todo/TODO readme): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb
13:36 < fenn> yes, but testing six sides of a cube isn't much of an edge case
13:36 < kanzure> there are many other possible edge cases
13:36 < kanzure> involving weird geometries
13:36 < kanzure> but that comes later
13:36 < fenn> you need to do stuff like rotating 360 degrees and all three rotations
13:36 < kanzure> checked against what?
13:36 < fenn> common sense
13:36 < kanzure> ..
13:37 < kanzure> import common sense
13:37 < fenn> i know, it's awful
13:37 < kanzure> import unittest
13:37 < kanzure> unittest.TestCase
13:37 < kanzure> what now?
13:37 < fenn> but if we had common_sense.py we wouldnt have to do anything right?
14:22 < ybit> http://aperiodic.net/screen/multiuser
14:22 < ybit> "screen can allow multiple users to access the same session. This can be useful for all sorts of information sharing, from helpdesk applications to extreme programming."
14:22  * ybit has always used gobby for collaborative editing
14:22 < ybit> but i like this idea of multiuser :)
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15:04 < strages> I need an app that I can input information, tag it, and then it draws relationships between tagged items.  Anyone got any clue what could do this?
15:04 < draz|lab> sql databse
15:04 < fenn> what do you mean tagged?
15:04 < draz|lab> microsoft access (puke)
15:04 < fenn> ugh, sql is terrible for interactive use
15:04 < draz|lab> the open office version of access
15:04 < kanzure> draz|lab: stfu
15:05 < fenn> hey i was going to say that
15:05 < strages> visually
15:05  * kanzure takes off his mind-reading cap
15:05 < strages> and I need realtime input
15:05 < draz|lab> strages: lololol
15:05 < draz|lab> strages: pen and paper man
15:05 < kanzure> draz|lab: what part of stfu do you not understand
15:05 < fenn> like flickr?
15:05 < draz|lab> all of it
15:05 < kanzure> strages: what do you mean "draws relationships"?
15:05 < kanzure> draz|lab: it means shut the fuck up
15:05 < strages> yes
15:06 < strages> I want to be able to file in information, tag it at that time, and then forget about it until I come back to research something and follow the relationships
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15:06 < fenn> ybit: i think multiple users trying to run the same vim session would get really confusing
15:07 < kanzure> in vim, you do not have multiple cursors
15:07 < kanzure> strages: ok so do you not need the graphing part of it or not?
15:07 < strages> kanzure: I would like the graphing part, but following links to other notes would suffice
15:08 < kanzure> ok
15:08 < kanzure> sounds like a wiki to me
15:08 < strages> but wikis don't work that way :/
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15:09 < kanzure> strages: what do they not do?
15:10 < strages> they're hard to edit for simple note taking
15:10 < kanzure> have you considered just using a flatfile wiki?
15:10 < kanzure> you can edit the files with your favorite text editor
15:12 < fenn> huh whatever happened to html image maps
15:12 < fenn> that was the shizizzle in 1999
15:13 < kanzure> you mean the cgi clickable things?
15:13 < fenn> http://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:image_map
15:15 < strages> note taking with a tag cloud or note taking with a mindmap type visualization
15:15 < strages> mindmapping software sucks because it's all outlining rather than drawing relationships for you based on tags
15:16 < strages> I don't think that linearly
15:18 < fenn> if you dont need to circle a specific object in a photograph, i'd say just use a wiki
15:18 < strages> a network diagram showing relationships between thoughts
15:18 < fenn> dokuwiki supports tags with a plugin, but most can do categories out of the box
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15:19 < fenn> i think you'll find that computer generated 'diagrams showing relationships' are generally awful
15:19 < fenn> in my experience with graphviz at least
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15:33 < fenn> huh. single molecule DNA sequencing is so simple
15:33 < timschmidt__> ybit: you there?
15:34 < fenn> "a gene that has sometimes been associated with increased disagreeability"
15:35 < fenn> i cant begin to imagine the legal fallout of that
15:35 < fenn> asshole's-rights movement
15:49 < katsmeow-afk> that's already existing, afaik : ADHD is a disability that's illegal to discriminate against (i am not agreeing, i am simply stating)
15:54 < kanzure> hey I'd like to see information about that
15:54 < kanzure> maybe I can sue someone
15:55 < katsmeow-afk> school districts have been sued for not allowing ADHD students to attend, i am sure there's other cases
15:57  * strages points to #hackerspaces because of this
15:57 < strages> [15:42:45] <@strages> http://www.opennasa.com/2009/08/11/hackerspaces-and-nasa/
15:57 < strages> [15:44:26] <@tkrabec> Cool
15:57 < strages> [15:46:36] <housetier> hackerspace on the moon...
15:57 < strages> [15:49:49] <@strages> :o
15:57 < strages> [15:52:49] <housetier> well we have hackerspaces on earth, we have communities trying to shoot a probe on the moon (openmoon.info) so why not shoot a reprap on the moon that will build the first hackerspace on moon
15:57 < strages> [15:52:56] <housetier> a tiny one, but still
15:57 < strages> [15:53:58] <@tkrabec> a reprap and some solar cells with a battery
15:57 < kanzure> strages: see the google lunar x prize team, Team FREDNET
15:57 < kanzure> and interplanetary ventures
15:57 < kanzure> they've been thinking along those lines as well
16:04  * fenn is highly skeptical
16:06 < kanzure> as you should be
16:07 < genehacker> Repraps are theoretically capable of operating in zero g
16:08 < strages> http://www.opennasa.com/2009/08/11/hackerspaces-and-nasa/
16:08 < strages> oops, already posted the link
16:09 < genehacker> but what good would a reprap on the moon do?
16:09 < fenn> about the same as a reprap on earth
16:09 < genehacker> a pave bot would be far more useful
16:09  * fenn attempts to not make any cynical comments
16:10 < kanzure> keep trying, fenn
16:13 < strages> ok, so maybe not a reprap, but something along the same concept
16:13 < strages> sits up there making modules out of raw material
16:14 < genehacker> make what?
16:14 < strages> next mission a rover with an arm(s) begins assembly and sealing
16:14  * fenn feels obligated to post link to http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/ for the lurkers
16:15 < genehacker> in that case how about a microwave lunar powder sintering robot
16:15 < fenn> just use a mirror
16:16 < genehacker> that'll work too
16:16 < genehacker> but it'd be hard to make big structures
16:16 < fenn> genehacker: microwave wavelength is like 5-50mm
16:16 < genehacker> instead of building structures on the moon it'd be far better to cap and pressurize a lave tube
16:17 < fenn> or just put a balloon in the tube
16:17 < fenn> or both
16:17 < genehacker> just need to find em' first
16:17 < fenn> anyway i agree surface structures don't make sense unless they're solar power stations or railroads
16:18 < genehacker> lunar railroads?
16:18 < genehacker> cool
16:18 < fenn> well how else are you going to ship stuff around? catapult?
16:18 < genehacker> catapult
16:18 < genehacker> you don't have any air
16:19 < genehacker> and low gravity
16:19 < fenn> sound hard on the bones
16:19 < timschmidt__> minor detail
16:19 < genehacker> too bad Nasa's funding for a lunar mass driver got cut a while back
16:19 < fenn> 20G morning commute is no minor detail
16:19 < genehacker> oh
16:19 < timschmidt__> :)
16:19 < genehacker> for people
16:20 < fenn> or other delicate robots
16:20 < genehacker> how about a really long one so the acceleration is 1 G and you have time to exercise
16:20 < timschmidt__> we _are_ rather delicate robots, aren't we?
16:20 < fenn> would a railroad be more efficient than a catapult? i have no gut feeling on this one
16:20 < genehacker> we could do that liquid breathing thing like in evangelion
16:20 < genehacker> oh I know
16:21 < genehacker> maglev railroad
16:21 < fenn> that's the worse of both
16:21 < genehacker> with high temp superconductors
16:21 < kanzure> someone from the Mars Society wanted to put a railroad on the moon
16:21 < kanzure> or on mars
16:21 < kanzure> don't listen to me
16:21 < genehacker> no air so you can go really fast
16:21 < genehacker> if it wasn't for that damn dust
16:22 < fenn> kanzure: around deimos, going faster than escape velocity so you have gravity
16:22 < fenn> i think it's pretty silly
16:22 < timschmidt__> genehacker: unfortunately, breathing highly oxygenated  fluorocarbons (like 3M's Fluoronert) collapses the avioli in the lungs, leading to traumatic death after removal of the liquid.
16:23 < kanzure> lung transplants are routine these days
16:23 < timschmidt__> Fluorinert rather
16:23 < genehacker> yeah, which is why you just fill the lungs up with fluid and use a blood oxygenator instead
16:23 < genehacker> like alexander bolonkin suggests for using in spacesuits
16:24 < fenn> just use a wireless blood electrolyzer! :P
16:24 < fenn> er, and nevermind about that co2 stuff
16:24 < genehacker> oh I know, nanites!
16:24 < fenn> ah good old nanites
16:24 < genehacker> the ones that caputre CO2 and release oxygen, but don't exist yet and could be near impossible
16:25 < fenn> i think the trick is getting electricity to them
16:25 < fenn> if they're nanites, you can't use microwave to transmit power
16:26 < fenn> also you'd probably overheat from all the recycling going on in your blood stream
16:26 < fenn> so pull a bolonkin and pretend the nanites can store an infinite amount of energy as super-AB-matter
16:27 < timschmidt__> Screw electricity.  Real nanites run on Brownian motion.
16:27 < fenn> timschmidt__: i suggest reading about thermodynamic equilibrium and why enzymes go forwards and backwards unless there's energy input
16:27 < timschmidt__> :)
16:29  * fenn wonders if he can manage to eat some ice cream instead of writing geometry unit tests
16:29 < fenn> in retrospect, not going to work hasn't helped this situation
16:29 < kanzure> wrong thing to wonder
16:29 < fenn> oh well
16:30 < kanzure> I'd write them if I knew what to write
16:31 < fenn> me too
16:31 < fenn> the general idea is something like: a cube with one interface at 1,1,1 pointing at 2,2,2
16:31 < kanzure> have you been able to get two arrows to point at the same spot?
16:31 < fenn> now rotate the cube 180 around -1,1,1
16:32 < fenn> the interface should be pointing at -2,-2,-2
16:32 < kanzure> according to what
16:32 < fenn> the legos told me so
16:33 < fenn> hum. anyway it's more than that isn't it
16:33 < fenn> assume you have two cubes
16:33 < fenn> the second cube's interface should be located at 1,1,1, but pointing at 0,0,0
16:33 < fenn> and the body of the cube at 2,2,2
16:35 < fenn> also it'd be a good idea to show the interface arrows
16:35 < fenn> -1,1,1 is the cross product of 1,1,1 (i think)
16:35 < kanzure> a good start would be to get the interface arrows to show even on rotated cubes
16:35 < kanzure> or rotated legos, I mean
16:35 < genehacker> nanothermodynamics is weird
16:35 < kanzure> at the moment in pymates the arrows for some reason do not show on any transformed part
16:35 < kanzure> (probably because I didn't write code that does that)
16:36 < fenn> boo hiss
16:36 < kanzure> they just show on the first one loaded into the system
16:36 < kanzure> the reason this happens is that the arrows are drawn based off of part.interfaces
16:36 < kanzure> so if the interfaces aren't transformed, then there you go
16:36 < kanzure> but it shouldn't be looking at interface.point values anyway.. so it's wrong.
16:36 < fenn> the interfaces shouldnt be transformed unless you transform them
16:37  * fenn looks around for his tail
16:37 < fenn> i know it's around here somewhere, but every time i turn around it's gone!
16:37 < kanzure> summersault! summersault!
16:37  * fenn does a backflip and breaks his neck
16:38 < kanzure> just so everyone knows, he really did just do a backflip
16:38 < kanzure> and I'm sitting here informing you of this
16:38 < kanzure> instead of helping him
16:38 < fenn> i swear. i didn't even spill any ice cream
16:38 < kanzure> but you broke your neck?
16:38 < fenn> i'm talented
16:38 < kanzure> you're retarded is more like it
16:39 < fenn> does that mean i get disability income
16:39 < kanzure> no, you're white
16:39 < genehacker> hey if your spinal cord is broken you might be able to get a neural implant
16:39 < fenn> what if i biohack my skin so it's green
16:39 < genehacker> otherwise chug blue food coloring 
16:40 < fenn> with enough chlorophyll i wouldnt need to move anyway
16:40 < kanzure> you forgot surface area
16:40 < kanzure> it's an important ingredient
16:40 < fenn> might get kinda boring without a neural implant tho
16:40 < fenn> surface area is for wimps with no mirror arrays!
16:41 < genehacker> then you're cooking
16:41 < fenn> not underwater i'm not
16:41 < kanzure> no it's because of the chlorophyll density maximums
16:41 < genehacker> yup
16:41 < kanzure> why are you underwater anyway?
16:41 < kanzure> weren't you writing some unit tests?
16:41 < fenn> because i'm emulating that guy in some book i read
16:41 < fenn> michael valentine
16:42 < genehacker> what book?
16:42 < fenn> the Man from Mars
16:42 < genehacker> ok
16:42 < genehacker> well have fun unittesting
16:42 < genehacker> time to design a cover for my printable stepper
16:43  * fenn suggests a flat plate
16:43 < genehacker> it can't be
16:44 < genehacker> this part mus interface with WOBBLE GENERATOR and allow AIR to pass through to WOBBLE GENERATOR. part must interface with THRUST BEARING and ROD
16:45 < fenn> NO WAY!
16:45 < fenn> s/WAY/WAI/
16:45 < fenn> mustn't forget our manners
16:46 < kanzure> there are many possible paths, but only one wai
16:46 < fenn> the kawaii wai?
16:47 < genehacker> is wai most optimal
16:47 < fenn> http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t83/llammy/kawaii.jpg
16:49 < genehacker> well at least the conversation hasn't devolved to anime
16:49 < fenn> too late, mister evangelion
16:51 < genehacker> is there a standard m8 washer size?
16:51 < fenn> do i really have to use numpy to do 3d cross product?
16:51 < fenn> (not including pythonOCC)
16:51 < kanzure> don't write your own
16:52 < fenn> it just seems like something that ought to be in "math"
16:52 < genehacker> it's not fun writing one's own cross product function
16:52 < fenn> math.cross((1,2,3), (4,5,6))
16:52 < fenn> i mean they have hypot() fer cheese sauce
16:54 < fenn> you know the interface vectors should probably have some value of units associated
16:54 < fenn> at least interface.point
16:55 < kanzure> that's fine
16:55 < kanzure> part of the problem with CAD kernels that I have *never* figured out is that all of their numbers are unitless
16:55 < kanzure> so I have absolutely no idea how big an object is supposedly being modeled as
16:56 < kanzure> and it's only at the last minute do you get to do dimensioning or something
16:56 < fenn> not sure about that
16:56 < kanzure> well consider OCC.gp.gp_Pnt
16:56 < fenn> the lego step models are in mm
16:56 < kanzure> you have absolutely no idea how distance two points are from one another
16:56 < kanzure> how do you know?
16:56 < genehacker> python math pack = numpy?
16:56 < fenn> i think i saw it in the file somewhere
16:56 < kanzure> genehacker: no, numpy is an extra mathematics package
16:56 < kanzure> genehacker: python comes with its own math module 
16:56 < genehacker> that's what I meant
16:58 < fenn> numpy is for matrix math (and statistics?)
16:59 < fenn> Fast mathematical operations over arrays, Linear Algebra, Fourier Transforms, Random Number Generation
16:59 < genehacker> understood
16:59 < fenn> i think you can apply a python function to an array and it'll do some magic to make it super fast
17:01 < fenn> hmmm
17:01 < fenn> __init__(self, float_conv=<type 'float'>, int_conv=<type 'int'>
17:01 < fenn> i wonder if that's generalizable
17:02 < fenn> nope
17:09 < ybit> timschmidt__: i am now
17:10  * ybit was away treading through the storm for food
17:11 < ybit> fenn, i've yet to run the code on this computer, but i read somewhere that emacs has a multiuser session mode. i imagine you all have your own buffer?
17:11 < ybit> though, org-mode and git should suit collaborative efforts in text just fine most of the time
17:11 < ybit> timschmidt__: you run?
17:11 < ybit> rung*
17:11 < kanzure> it's what aresnick uses
17:12 < ybit> link to his repo?
17:13 < kanzure> http://github.com/aresnick
17:14 < fenn> ybit: not everybody uses emacs
17:15 < fenn> ybit: i tried it once and suffered greatly
17:15 < fenn> i spent about 2 weeks using it and never got comfortable
17:15 < ybit> mentally or physically through emacs pinky?
17:15 < fenn> mentally
17:16 < fenn> it could have been the lisp i was imbibing at the same time
17:16 < kanzure> nah, no way
17:16  * kanzure twitches
17:16 < fenn> it's powerfull stuff :{
17:17 < kanzure> is that a smileyface stuffing ice cream into his face?
17:17 < fenn> ybit: what i really want is a way to lean over someone's shoulder and type on their screen without getting in the way
17:17 < fenn> that's a guy with a mustache, he's not smiling.
17:23 < fenn> bah apparently 'contig' can mean any of possible definitions
17:25 < ybit> what are some ultimate goals of h+?
17:25 < kanzure> the organization?
17:25 < fenn> OBJECTION that might be classified as philosophy
17:25 < kanzure> OBJECTION OVER-RULED
17:25 < kanzure> I will not have your flibbery-babbery in my court room, Mr. Fenn.
17:26 < fenn> h+ seeks to dominate and enslave legalist jurisprudence in any and all domains
17:26 < ybit> well, i'm thinking, (er.. well trying to think with this throbbing headache) about how to best organize hackerspaces..
17:26 < genehacker> http://www.aeropause.com/wordpress/archives/images/2008/07/pw-objection.gif
17:26 < kanzure> the trick is to let them organize themselves
17:26 < ybit> flibbery-babbery :P
17:26 < kanzure> but provide some really really kickass models for them to build off of
17:26 < ybit> let's see...
17:27 < genehacker> H+ seeks to transform humanity and culture by upgrading humanity
17:27 < fenn> oh geez did you read that on the website or what?
17:28 < fenn> the REAL purpose of H+ is...
17:28 < ybit> so how to upgrade humanity, that's what i'm after...
17:28 < kanzure> what the fuck
17:28 < kanzure> ybit: no, let's not upgrade humanity
17:28 < kanzure> if some random joe wants to "upgrade" himself, let him
17:28 < genehacker> well I sorta grabed words out of my head
17:28 < kanzure> they are bad words
17:28 < fenn> genehacker: bad meme, bad!
17:29 < kanzure> the actual purpose of transhumanism is to provide support to transhumans or transhuman-wannabes
17:29 < fenn> you know, if you turn H+ on its side it looks like a mishmash of "old" and "engineering" in japanese
17:33 < fenn> oops, "ground" not "old"
17:34 < fenn> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/工 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/土
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17:37 < genehacker> your link isn't working
17:37 < fenn> your irc client isn't working
17:39 < genehacker> wtf?
17:39 < genehacker> I can't copy that
17:41 < genehacker> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/土
17:41 < genehacker> now that's weird
17:42 < QuantumG> works for me
17:42 < ybit> http://airto.hosted.ats.ucla.edu/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
17:43 < ybit> "This is the new home for the BrainMapping.org Wiki"
17:43 < kanzure> fenn is there any trick to getting virtualhosts working on apache?
17:43 < kanzure> it thinks my document root is /
17:43 < fenn> look at adl
17:43 < fenn> i think i did a fairly clean setup
17:44 < genehacker> it says dirt not engineering
17:44 < fenn> there are two links
17:44 < kanzure> links?
17:44 < fenn> (@ genehacker)
17:44 < kanzure> blah
17:44 < kanzure> well I've been running off of your fennetic.net example
17:45 < kanzure> ok it works
17:45 < kanzure> yay
17:45 < fenn> did you have to turn on NameVirtualHost in the main config?
17:46 < kanzure> no, I forgot to throw it into sites-enabled, and even once I did that, I forgot to restart apache (because I had just restarted it a second ago)
17:46 < kanzure> anywho
17:46 < kanzure> I've been working on something called "protocola"
17:46 < kanzure> http://protocola.org/
17:46 < kanzure> it's a django app for collaborative unfucking of protocols
17:46 < fenn> 'secret ingredients: bog water and chocolate syrup'
17:47 < kanzure> haven't ported the django app yet
17:47 < fenn> but you don't know the ratio!
17:47 < kanzure> basically the idea is to show the user a protocol,
17:47 < kanzure> and then text fields below each numbered step
17:47 < kanzure> upon entering in information, the site will yell at you if you get the syntax wrong or something
17:48 < kanzure> the idea is that over time the protocols will be completely converted and verified
17:48 < fenn> i'm so going to pronounce that wrong every chance i get
17:48 < kanzure> hm?
17:48 < kanzure> how do you pronounce it?
17:48 < fenn> "proto cola"
17:48 < kanzure> that's not the same as protocola?
17:48 < fenn> like cocoa cola
17:49 < kanzure> just say it as if you're drunk
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18:00 < ybit> git clone git://gitorious.org/todo-org/todo-org.git   
18:00 < ybit> so that's the todo.org that needs a lot of fixing
18:01 < ybit> ultimate goals blank
18:01 < kanzure> meta todo rot
18:01 < ybit> meh
18:02 < kanzure> bah, shave chest
18:02 < kanzure> :(
18:02 < ybit> lol!
18:02 < ybit> no way haha
18:02 < genehacker> NaOH should do the job quite well
18:02 < ybit> :P
18:04 < ybit> er, that was the personal todo.org -_-
18:07 < fenn> neato: "pyjamas contains a stand-alone Python-to-Javascript compiler, an AJAX Framework and Widget set, and through use of these components, developers can write comprehensive applications, to run in all major web browsers, without writing a single line of javascript."
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18:12 < fenn> The widget set library [5] that comes with Pyjamas is so similar to PyQt and PyGTK that a port of Pyjamas was made to run Pyjamas applications on the desktop, called Pyjamas-Desktop
18:13 < kanzure> nice
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18:23 < ybit> git clone git://gitorious.org/diyhplus/diyhplus_org.git
18:24 < kanzure> MEAs aren't the end of the story, ybit
18:24 < kanzure> also I'm having trouble figuring out what the organization is to that file
18:25 < ybit> it needs some fixing definitely
18:26 < ybit> and no it isn't the ultimate goal, that's still from the personal todo.org
18:26 < ybit> i just wanted to put something out there, and edit as i get time
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18:27 < ybit> related book, related papers, related links should go with the individual listing of hardware and software projects 
18:32 < ybit> isn't a transhuman some form of an upgraded human?
18:33 < ybit> ""17:25 < kanzure> the actual purpose of transhumanism is to provide support to transhumans or transhuman-wannabes"" do you mean "the actual purpose of humanity plus and transhuman wannabes is to..."
18:38 < kanzure> no
18:38 < kanzure> a transhuman is an "upgraded" or "augmented" human, yes
19:14 < timschmidt__> ybit: hi
19:15 < ybit> hi there
19:16 < timschmidt__> howdy
19:16 < timschmidt__> an update for you: http://builders.reprap.org/2009/08/wrench-built-machine-update.html
19:17  * ybit tips his hat to timschmidt__
19:17 < timschmidt__> We've made a lot of changes to the Z stage since then, I'll get photos asap (which might not be for another week or so)
19:18 < timschmidt__> but basically, we made the Z stage look and work a lot more like the X and Y stages.
19:20 < timschmidt__> keep in mind that every angle on the machine is three-way braced, and bolted tight, so it's all square relative to itself.
19:24 < any04225226> hmm, http://www2.sandbox.google.com/ has about the same results as http://www.google.com/ , but it's 3x faster
19:24 < ybit> timschmidt__: thanks for the updates, keep them coming please
19:25 < timschmidt__> Will do.  When 'done' we plan on taking pictures, dis-assembling, and documenting the build step-by-step.
19:25 < ybit> nice :)
19:25 < timschmidt__> then it's up to you to build one
19:26 < ybit> :)
19:27 < timschmidt__> We've still only used a wrench and a hacksaw.  There was some debate about the use of JB Weld, but I classify that as 'material', not 'tool'.
19:28 < timschmidt__> Use of a file to clean the edges of the cut beams is optional, but recommended for safety.
19:44 < kanzure> any04225226: how'd you find that?
19:44 < ybit> wow, that is fast
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19:53 < fenn> ybit: is that all proper org mode syntax?
19:54 < fenn> i dont understand why there's TODO in some places and not in other, or why ***'s in some but foo: bar in other
19:54 < fenn> and why not put your root goals at the root of the tree?
19:56 < fenn> some day i'll write a program that takes nodes with dependencies and builds a tree from them
19:56  * fenn tosses that dream on the burn pile
19:59 < fenn> and you spelled toothebrush wrong
20:00 < kanzure> alabamians have no teeth anyway
20:00 < fenn> fwiw todo lists should have verbs in every entry
20:00 < kanzure> yes
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20:03 < fenn> hmm. should lego interface units be in N or N/m^2?
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20:04 < fenn> i guess N
20:05 < kanzure> we wrote that down somewhere
20:05 < fenn> the problem is i'm trying to pretend "face" is a lego feture
20:05 < fenn> but it's really not
20:05 < genehacker> pascals
20:06 < genehacker> I guess newtons
20:11 < kanzure> huh I get 26,300 search results for 'kanzure' these days?
20:11 < kanzure> how did that happen
20:13 < fenn> gosh if only i had a measuring lab, i'd be able to figure out how much shear a lego stud can take
20:17  * fenn reflects on the fact that his internal representation of mass is in blocks of cheese
20:19 < kanzure> and the units of gravity is in terms of gravy spoonfuls?
20:20 < fenn> gravitons
20:21 < kanzure> crutons?
20:23 < fenn> i suppose gravy is a mixture of anti-croutons and something else.. dark matter perhaps?
20:23 < kanzure> dark cheese
20:23  * fenn punishes himself for making such terrible jokes
20:23 < kanzure> maybe more physicists should just wake up and smell the gravytons
20:24 < kanzure> thinking about it in terms of food makes it much more easy to solve
20:25 < fenn> i guess that would be the "edible stance"
20:25 < kanzure> The Sauce of the Cosmos
20:25 < fenn> cheese sauce crust
20:31 < ybit> i'm running into problem organizing these projects, and that is how to show how individual topics relate to other topics of interest
20:31 < fenn> yep
20:32 < fenn> it's actually a directed graph, not a tree
20:32 < fenn> you can sort-of get away with pointers in yaml
20:32 < fenn> see trans-tech.yaml in skdb
20:33 < kanzure> or human_brain.yaml in brain
20:33 < fenn> it's all backwards/inside out (trans-tech)
20:34 < fenn> should just redo that file
20:34 < fenn> must.. procrastinate..
20:48 < fenn> i wish there were a better word for "unit"
20:49 < fenn> "unit test" is taken, "unit vector" is taken, and i dont even know what to call the combined expression of number and unit (or is it the other way around?)
20:50 < kanzure> unit magnitude?
20:50 < fenn> what's the not-magnitude part
20:50 < kanzure> maybe "parametric unit expression"
20:50 < kanzure> the non magnitude part is the unit
20:50 < fenn> what's the number and unit together?
20:50 < kanzure> unit magnitude
20:50 < fenn> no
20:50 < kanzure> no?
20:50 < fenn> the magnitude is the number
20:51 < kanzure> okay?
20:51 < fenn> think of it like a vector
20:51 < kanzure> sure
20:51 < fenn> each base unit is a dimension
20:51 < fenn> ok crappy analogy
20:52 < fenn> or is it...
20:52 < fenn> 0.5V * 2A yields 1V*A
20:52 < fenn> but it's not the same thing as 2V * 0.5A
20:52 < kanzure> why not?
20:53 < fenn> the voltage is different
20:53 < kanzure> so are the amps
20:53 < fenn> right
20:53 < fenn> here's a little secret
20:53 < kanzure> so what? you just say what you have
20:53 < fenn> every time you convert units, you're losing information
20:53 < kanzure> that's only because your conversion method sucks in units.py
20:54 < fenn> no, this is theoretical
20:54 < kanzure> you could keep the original unit expression
20:54 < fenn> eventually all units equal 1
20:54 < kanzure> and pass it along and a chain or list accumulates
20:54 < fenn> i do, but there's no way to make use of it atm
20:55 < fenn> anyway you still can access the original variable that said how many volts your jigger was charged up at
20:56 < kanzure> skdb-get install jigger
20:56 < kanzure> error: no package 'jigger' found
20:56 < kanzure> :p
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21:09 < fenn> kanzure: do you have a working heekscad somewhere?
21:10 < fenn> anyway i just want a 2x2x2 cube centered at 0,0,0
21:14 < kanzure> it's in /home/bryan/manufacturing/heekscad/ or something
21:15 < fenn> doesn't want to compile.. nevermind i'll get along
21:15 < fenn> without it*
21:16 < ybit> sci-pirate tech:
21:16 < ybit> ?
21:16 < ybit> myostatin inhibitors: &myostatin-inhibitors
21:17 < kanzure> ybit: &myostatin-inhibitors lets "*myostatin-inhibitors" work as a pointer elsewhere in the file
21:17 < fenn> ybit: for stealing papers
21:17 < ybit> that's what i was about to say until my aunt came in here and told me to get some rest
21:18 < ybit> it's a tag
21:18 < ybit>  /fenn snarls
21:18 < ybit>  /kanzure kicks
21:19 < fenn>  /ybit barks like an insane loon
21:19  * kanzure kicks
21:19 < ybit> :P
21:20  * fenn snarls
21:20 < ybit> .org probably isn't the best file for sharing with a mass audience
21:20 < ybit> file +format
21:21 < ybit> but man it's so convenient 
21:21 < kanzure> was there a gundam where the pilots were standing up?
21:21 < fenn> no
21:22 < kanzure> then what am I thinking of?
21:22 < fenn> obviously an airplane throttle is sufficient to control a multi-limbed flying robot
21:22  * ybit isn't finding specs on yaml pointers
21:22 < fenn> shirow's exoskeletons were <insert fancy word here that means when you move your arm/leg the robot moves its arm/leg>
21:23 < ybit> http://yaml.org/spec/10dec2001.html#trans-ptr is missing
21:23 < fenn> you said you never saw appleseed so that can't be it
21:24 < kanzure> one day I will figure out which gundam I grew up with
21:24 < kanzure> there's apparently no way to search for old tv guides
21:24 < fenn> power rangers?
21:24 < ybit> they sat down
21:24 < kanzure> hahah
21:25 < fenn> i wonder if their mecha had toilets built in
21:25 < fenn> ffs if they're going to do CG anime at least draw the eyes by hand
21:26 < kanzure> maybe it was gundam seed
21:26 < genehacker> meteor shower tonight
21:26 < kanzure> possibly g gundam
21:26 < genehacker> heh
21:27 < kanzure> ah yeah that was it
21:27 < genehacker> I think there was
21:27 < genehacker> oops
21:27 < kanzure> that was the one that toonami played before they went lame 
21:27 < kanzure> and started playing SD gundam
21:27 < kanzure> what the *fuck* _was_ that?
21:27 < genehacker> I don't know
21:27 < kanzure> seriously though
21:27 < kanzure> http://www.freewebs.com/chaostheroyalknight/5d_021_sd_gundam.jpg
21:28 < genehacker> http://www.space.com/spacewatch/090811-perseid-meteor-shower.html
21:28 < fenn> compare and contrast: http://mayafreaksblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/appleseed-1.jpg http://www.razorfine.com/images/uploads/Appleseed_Caps.jpg
21:29 < fenn> looks like a god damn doll
21:29 < kanzure> that was the entire show
21:29 < kanzure> luckily that was not my intro to gundam
21:29 < fenn> (was talking about deunan but whatever, SD sucks too)
21:29 < genehacker> fenn is it on wheels?
21:30 < kanzure> here we go .. this is engrained in my memory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlhtVgB7QuY
21:30 < genehacker> added airfoils would allowed a wheeled-bipedal mecha to go faster
21:31 < genehacker> lasers around the earth?
21:31 < ybit> guess ya want be able to make artificial heart/blood/power supply for body and parts if ya haven't mastered the sci of taking digitizing that brain of yours
21:32 < ybit> won't*
21:32 < ybit> -taking
21:32 < genehacker> uh
21:32 < genehacker> not really
21:33 < genehacker> don't artificial hearts already exist?
21:33  * ybit wonders what type of power supply a digital brain might use
21:34 < ybit> genehacker: yeah.. i wasn't really referring to that though
21:34 < genehacker> uninterruptable nuclear fusion power supply
21:35 < ybit> brain parts... 
21:35 < genehacker> or mains power and 20 back up generators
21:36 < timschmidt__> or just backed-up non-volatile storage
21:36 < timschmidt__> version control for brains would be interesting, possibly scary
21:36  * ybit clones git://github.com/kanzure/brain.git
21:37 < timschmidt__> ha!
21:38 < ybit> it is a real repo just in case you didn't know :)
21:38 < timschmidt__> leave it to us sysadmins to figure out how to safely store everyone else's brains...  sheesh
21:39 < timschmidt__> interesting thought...  when brains are digital, psychologist / doctor == programmer?
21:40 < fenn> as usual the conversation has progressed beyond gundam cockpits by the time i find the link
21:40 < timschmidt__> :)
21:41 < genehacker> sentience is a process timschmidt
21:41 < genehacker> that's why a chat bot isn't sentient
21:41 < fenn> kanzure: http://fennetic.net/irc/guges/
21:41 < timschmidt__> genehacker: and?
21:42 < fenn> hmm i have higher res labeled version of those somewhere
21:44 < genehacker> chatbots don't continously carry out a thinking process other than what words to choose next
21:44 < timschmidt__> genehacker: I never said they did
21:46 < kanzure> hah.
21:46 < kanzure> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/NickGreat/CustomFigs/frieza.jpg
21:46 < genehacker> pausing simulation of a brain interrupt sentience
21:46 < genehacker> oh wait
21:47 < kanzure> timschmidt__: aren't you the sysadmin of your brain?
21:47 < fenn> not at all
21:47 < timschmidt__> genehacker: yep, it would.  And the experience might be quite jarring.
21:47 < kanzure> fenn: ?
21:47 < fenn> brain runs autonomously
21:47 < kanzure> so?
21:47 < kanzure> so does your box
21:48 < fenn> if the box breaks, i fix it
21:48 < fenn> if my brain breaks, what?
21:48 < kanzure> if your brain breaks, you should fix it
21:48 < fenn> how do i do that :(
21:48 < kanzure> well it's not magic
21:48 < timschmidt__> especially with a broken brain
21:48 < fenn> srsly
21:48 < kanzure> timschmidt__: well that's where tools come in handy
21:48 < timschmidt__> a working brain comes in handy for, you know, fixing things.
21:49 < genehacker> how about a second brain for fixing the other one if something goes wrong
21:49 < kanzure> a sysadmin doesn't wait for the last minute to realize everything is fucked up
21:49 < kanzure> (maybe that's because he already knows the system is fucked)
21:50 < timschmidt__> nah, just reboot and choose 'last known good configuration'.  And if that doesn't work, Safe Mode.  What could go wrong?
21:50 < kanzure> I wonder if you're being serious
21:50 < timschmidt__> not at all
21:50 < kanzure> okay
21:50 < fenn> my brain doesn't run on Windows, thank you very much
21:50 < kanzure> is it POSIX compatable with the T101?
21:50 < fenn> actually the T101 runs plan 9
21:52 < genehacker> guys I once dreamed a windows 98 screensaver, what does that mean?
21:52 < fenn> you had a virus
21:52 < kanzure> that's not in freud's books :(
21:52 < kanzure> it's listed as "SEE OTHER"
21:53 < fenn> was it the pipes?
21:53 < kanzure> oh no, not the pipes
21:53 < kanzure> that's the worst sign of them all
21:53 < genehacker> no
21:53 < fenn> how could it not be the pipes?!
21:53 < genehacker> it was that mouse one
21:53 < fenn> link
21:53 < genehacker> you don't remember mouse maze?
21:53 < kanzure> how is it that 10 lines of code has been able to supercede the entire ADL by about three decades
21:54 < genehacker> what?
21:54 < fenn> genehacker: this?  http://www.plentyofsoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/58724.gif 
21:55 < genehacker> something like that
21:55 < genehacker> except with less quality and the maze inverted periodically
21:56 < genehacker> it was made to look like an AWESOME GRAPHICS videogame at the time
21:56 < genehacker> there were also weirder brick walls
22:08 < ybit> hrm. 88.80.7.248 - - [11/Aug/2009:19:58:50 -0500] "GET http://spam-chaos.com/pp/set-cookie.php HTTP/1.1" 404 346 "-" "-" "-"
22:08 < ybit> anyone had such a service come at your server?
22:12  * ybit remembers the maze
22:12 < ybit> ..screensaver
22:12 < ybit> "give'm the pipes" seems like it should be a saying for a futurama parod of the clamps bot
22:13 < ybit> parody
22:13  * ybit is grepping logs... for the sleep.yaml...
22:13  * ybit is curious how much away-time from the computer you two roomies recieve
22:15 < ybit> er, that would be kanzure and fenn 
22:15 < ybit> since you are constantly committing
22:17 < fenn> away time? what is that?
22:18 < genehacker> I certainly could use a bender right now ybit
22:18 < genehacker> or maybe a tubing coiler
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23:13 < draz|lab> kanzure: I see there was no response to our messages on taht thread
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