--- Day changed Fri Aug 21 2009
00:01  * katsmeow hmms for a bit
00:01 < katsmeow> if it's that easy, why do people buy $$$ collets?
00:09 < fenn> not everyone uses collets
00:10 < fenn> end mills have a tendency to pull out of the collet at high cutting load
00:10 < fenn> the set screw + flat is often called a "weldon" shank
00:10 < fenn> (it's not welded on, believe it or not)
00:11 < fenn> besides, the set screw kicks the bit off center a little, so a collet is better for fine cuts (otherwise you'd be cutting on only one flute)
00:11 < katsmeow> i was thinking a flat stock and a tapered collar and a spring,, sorta thing
00:11 < fenn> like a dremel? not really seeing what you're describing
00:12 < katsmeow> drill the hole like for setscrew, but no threads
00:12 < katsmeow> insert a rod
00:13 < katsmeow> slide a internally tapered collar over it
00:13 < fenn> sounds like a hard way to make a set screw
00:13 < katsmeow> the taper presses the rod into the ding in the bit shaft
00:13 < katsmeow> it's quicker to release and doesn't mar the bit, and won't unscrew
00:14 < fenn> i use a little chunk of brass or aluminum to go the last few thread lengths (you don't want to tap all the way through see)
00:14 < fenn> er, actually it doesn't matter on something as large as 1/2"
00:15 < katsmeow>  vibration won't back out the setscrew?
00:15 < fenn> also, that's what the flat on the bit shank is for (so it doesn't mar the shank)
00:15  * katsmeow nods
00:15 < fenn> it does work its way loose without thread lock
00:16 < fenn> you really should have two set screws on a shaft at 90 or 120 degrees
00:16 < katsmeow> collar on the outside of the shaft
00:16 < fenn> but all the endmills with flats only have one flat *shrug*
00:17 < fenn> pro-feshnul grade tooling: http://www.iscar.com/Ecat/products.asp/app/111/mapp/IT/GFSTYP/M/lang/EN
00:19 < katsmeow> i'd never get a taper to match those
00:19 < fenn> probably not
00:21 < katsmeow> ergo, i cannot use them
00:23 < katsmeow> http://www.iscar.com/Ecat/products.asp/app/94/mapp/IT/GFSTYP/M/lang/EN  ?
00:24 < katsmeow> i think i'll do it like you did
00:26 < katsmeow> i was thinking of something like http://www.iscar.com/Ecat/familyHDR.asp/fnum/2078/app/106/mapp/IT/GFSTYP/M/type/1/lang/EN
00:26 < katsmeow> but with a tapered outside, so a collar driven down from above would compress the fingers onto the bit
00:40 < genehackerclone> oh dear ybit
00:41 < genehackerclone> that is $30
00:41 < genehackerclone> toobad it's not automatic
00:54 < katsmeow> if you had a core small enough to spec 2 source register , one target register, and some logic or short math op in the one 32bit instruction, and it executed in 1ns, izzat good or  no? what if you could simultaneously feed it another 32bit instruction into the other side, to do something to the registers not spec'd in the other instruction?
01:39 < katsmeow> or for that matter, OR reg1 and reg2 and store in reg3, and same time AND reg1 and reg2 and store in reg4
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07:33 < drazak> rawr see my new post
07:34 < drazak> kanzure, fenn
07:58 < kanzure> drazak: yeah it's not really diy because jason bobe has some contacts with companies and he's having people snailmail them cotton swab samples
08:00 < drazak> lololol
08:00 < drazak> that's pathetic
08:08 < kanzure> I don't know if I care enough to reply to this bullshit:
08:08 < kanzure> http://diybio.org/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=7&page=1#Item_0
08:14 < drazak> that's kinda bs-y
08:20 < kanzure> hm, I want a history book of the F/OSS software movement
08:20 < kanzure> I want to see a chapter on X, a chapter on gentoo, a chapter on debian, etc.
08:20 < kanzure> and a chapter on KDE
08:26 < drazak> kanzure: you should make a big reply to my post
08:26 < drazak> and be like
08:27 < drazak> zem bitches yo they not be doin it home schooled, you gots to do it yourself to bes diy yo
08:30 < kanzure> the reason why it's on diybio.org is because jason bobe is in bed with mac
08:33 < kanzure> fenn: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/gp-ax2-test.txt not sure if it matters though
08:36 < drazak> kanzure: probably literally
08:40 < kanzure> I don't think they realize that they are holding diybio back by all their bullshit
08:42 < drazak> I get the impression that they don't give a shit
08:42 < drazak> it's a status symbol for them
08:47 < kanzure> status symbol?
08:49 < drazak> yeah
08:49 < drazak> 'oh yeah I'm the head of diybio!'
08:49 < drazak> they don't give a shit about getting stuff done, they just like saying that they're the ones forwarding the movement
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10:00 < kanzure> added some notes on ironpython+graphsynth to the graphsynth repository
10:03 < kanzure> the iron python interpreter sucks immensely
10:03 < kanzure> arrow keys don't work, page up/page down doesn't work, home/end doesn't work, etc.
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10:22 < kanzure> "cloud forests" look neat
10:39 < fenn_adl> hmm. http://www.impactlab.com/2008/05/08/world’s-tallest-lego-tower-built-in-england/17596/
10:39 < fenn_adl> iron python wouldn't let me load Representation.dll
10:40 < fenn_adl> so, i have lost interest in it
10:44 < fenn_adl> oh. the bastard wanted c:/ instead of c:\
10:45 < fenn_adl> since the scrollback is only two pages long they could at least include a pager
10:50 < fenn_adl> does Representation%28GraphSynth%29.dll do anything extra?
10:50 < fenn_adl> it seems once i import GraphSynth.FundamentalClassesAndInterfaces.dll i get the complete GraphSynth API
11:01 < fenn_adl> lego automated book scanner http://www.geocities.jp/takascience/lego/fabs_en.html
11:04 < fenn_adl> doesn't really cradle the book at an angle though so you get warped scans
11:06 < kanzure> oh, if you get the complete API with just FundamentalClassesAndInterfaces then by all means
11:06 < kanzure> I looked ati t with dir() and didn't see Representation or designGraph, but I cofuld have been mistaken
11:07 < kanzure> any idea about getting something better than the ironpython interpreter? the interactive interprreter really, really sucks
11:07 < fenn_adl> i bet you could use ipython somehow
11:07  * kanzure wonders if there is something about lags that make him make more typos, or simply the fact that he doesn't see what he's typing. hm.
11:07 < fenn_adl> why are you lagged?
11:07 < kanzure> home connection is still having difficulties apparently
11:07 < kanzure> *di
11:07 < kanzure> fficulties
11:08 < fenn_adl> so, run your irssi at home?
11:12 < fenn_adl> btw clr.Add.. %28GraphSynth%29.. doesn't work
11:12 < fenn_adl> i had to do (GraphSynth)
11:13 < fenn_adl> and anyway it still doesn't show designGraph
11:13 < fenn_adl> how come nobody uses the phrase "assembly graph" 
11:14 < kanzure> AddFile isn't sufficient
11:14 < fenn_adl> i only see one example (NASA/ISS) and it's not even a graph
11:14 < kanzure> check out the tutorial distributed with IronPython 
11:14 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/opencascade_group ugh
11:14 < fenn_adl> yeah i have it open
11:14 < kanzure> clr.AddReferenceToFileAndPath
11:14 < kanzure> that's what I used
11:14 < fenn_adl> then import GraphSynth as gs
11:15 < kanzure> then impoprt GraphSynth.Representation
11:16 < fenn_adl> oh. duh
11:16  * kanzure bonks fenn over the head with a frying pan
11:17 < fenn_adl> well that was easier than i expected
11:17 < kanzure> if you want to get jiggy with it and monodevelop, sudo apt-get install monodevelop libnunit2.4-cil nunit nunit-console nunit-gui monodevelop-nunit
11:17 < fenn_adl> what's nunit?
11:18 < kanzure> c# unit test framework that is also integrated into the monodevelop gui
11:19 < fenn_adl> um. how do i get out of ipy
11:19 < kanzure> CTRL+Z
11:20 < fenn_adl> >>> exit()
11:20 < fenn_adl> Traceback (most recent call last):
11:20 < fenn_adl> TypeError: str object is not callable
11:20 < kanzure> ctrl+z
11:20 < fenn_adl> why is 'exit' a string object?
11:20 < kanzure> print exit
11:20 < fenn_adl> omfg
11:20 < fenn_adl> someone needs to be shot
11:20 < kanzure> yeah .. :(
11:20 < kanzure> btw try this: press "home" or "end" then type exit
11:20 < fenn_adl> exit() works on ipy.exe
11:21 < kanzure> when I type home/end before anything else, I get this: 
11:21 < kanzure> >>> exit
11:21 < kanzure> Traceback (most recent call last):
11:21 < kanzure> SyntaxError: unexpected token bad character '' (<stdin>, line 1)
11:21 < kanzure> usually I navigate to the beginning or end of a line with those keys
11:22 < kanzure> and usually I use up/down arrows to navigate up/down in the history, but that also causes the same problem
11:22 < fenn_adl> right
11:22 < fenn_adl> i use C-a and C-e
11:22 < fenn_adl> (neither of which work in ipy either)
11:22 < kanzure> isn't this basic interpreter functionality?
11:23 < kanzure> basic interactive interpreter functionality, I mean
11:24 < kanzure> so how do I actually stop ipy? ctrl+z just moves it to the background
11:25 < kanzure> besides killing it
11:25 < fenn_adl> hm even up-arrow works on windows at least
11:26 < kanzure> is there another way to exit python sessions that I am not aware of? exit, quit, ctrl+z, .. ?
11:26 < kanzure> dir() doesn't show "quit" or "exit"
11:26 < fenn_adl> ctrl+d
11:26 < fenn_adl> dir(__builtins__) but it's just a string
11:26 < kanzure> nope, just inserts the ctrl+d unicode character into the prompt
11:27 < kanzure> >>> 
11:27 < kanzure> Traceback (most recent call last):
11:27 < kanzure> SyntaxError: unexpected token bad character '(<stdin>, line 1)
11:27 < kanzure> gee I'm starting to feel stupid
11:27 < fenn_adl> i dont really get why this isnt just a python module
11:27 < fenn_adl> ironpython.GetSomeStupidFuckingDll("c:/foo.dll")
11:28 < fenn_adl> i mean it doesn't even import python modules
11:28 < fenn_adl> ImportError: No module named yaml
11:29 < kanzure> well what's sys.path?
11:29 < fenn_adl> /usr/lib/python2.4
11:29 < kanzure> is that where the yaml module is?
11:29 < fenn_adl> no
11:29 < kanzure> makes me wonder
11:30 < kanzure> hah I have to killall -9 mono to kill ipy?
11:30 < fenn_adl> it still doesn't work even if i add the right paths
11:31 < fenn_adl> ctrl-z then kill %1 in a shell
11:31 < fenn_adl> dunno how mono does it
11:31 < fenn_adl> either way it's stupid
11:33 < fenn_adl> well at least i can copy+paste on linux
11:37 < kanzure> I'd tell you how to do it on windows in their cmd32, but it would only make you die a little bit more inside
11:38 < kanzure> it involves right clicking on the window title bar
11:38 < fenn_adl> so. do i have to recompile *.dll to be able to import it on linux?
11:38 < kanzure> not sure. 
11:38 < fenn_adl> did you?
11:38 < kanzure> I've recompiled them
11:38 < kanzure> yes
11:39 < fenn_adl> want to put those files somewhere?
11:39 < kanzure> didn't try the other way though
11:39 < kanzure> yeah one sec
11:39 < kanzure> what do you want?
11:39 < fenn_adl> fundamental and representation
11:39 < fenn_adl> just the dll should be enough right?
11:39 < kanzure> yes
11:39 < kanzure> dll =~ .lib
11:40 < fenn_adl> did you ever add any if(using_wpf) statements?
11:40 < kanzure> was a preprocessor directive
11:40 < kanzure> yes
11:41 < kanzure> ok added two DLLs to http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/
11:41 < kanzure> GraphSynth.FundamentalClassesAndInterfaces.dll
11:41 < kanzure> Representation%28GraphSynth%29.dll
11:41 < fenn_adl> i forget how to use mono every time...
11:41 < kanzure> well I just did it in monodevelop to be honest
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11:41 < kanzure> open up the dot sln file in monodevelop and press the hell out of the build button or f7 button
11:41 < genehacker> button mashing?
11:42 < kanzure> genehacker: fenn has some pent-up anger
11:44 < fenn_adl> is this code just broken to start with?
11:44 < fenn_adl> why is 'rulesets' and 'Program' not defined?
11:44 < fenn_adl> s/mono/monodevelop/
11:44 < fenn_adl> pointy clicky thing
11:45 < fenn_adl> lots of colorful icons that make no sense
11:45 < kanzure> what code is broken?
11:46 < fenn_adl> r98 "the name 'rulesets' does not exist in the current context(CS0103)"
11:47 < fenn_adl> searchProcess.cs
11:47 < kanzure> is that a warning or an error?
11:47 < fenn_adl> error
11:47 < kanzure> do you want me to work on it right now?
11:48 < fenn_adl> no
11:48 < kanzure> I didn't get that error before
11:48 < fenn_adl> just wondering if i'm supposed to be able to compile it or not
11:48 < kanzure> well r93 did
11:48 < kanzure> r96 might
11:48  * fenn_adl mutters something about a release branch
11:51 < fenn_adl> aha
11:51 < fenn_adl> 'mash the build button' was the wrong advice
11:52 < fenn_adl> correct advice: 'mash f7'
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11:54 < fenn_adl> do you remember why this occurs? svn: Repository moved permanently to 'http://adl.serveftp.org/adl/'; please relocate
11:54 < kanzure> use svn+ssh
11:55 < fenn_adl> i dont want to
11:55 < fenn_adl> need a passwd to checkout, that's just wrong
11:55 < kanzure> it's the only way that has ever worked for me
11:55  * kanzure just assumes svn sucks
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11:59 < genehacker> mash any button is the wrong advice unless you're playing a fighting game
12:00 < kanzure> it works for programming .. sometimes.
12:07 < CIA-32> skdb: kanzure * r 96bbb4f /paths.py: anything obviously wrong with these?
12:08 < fenn_adl> svn co http://adl.serveftp.org/graphsynth
12:09 < fenn_adl> guess i should add that to sites-enabled/default
12:09 < kanzure> thomas paviot asked me to include the screenshot in my email itself
12:09 < kanzure> rather than linking to it
12:10 < kanzure> should I do that? I feel unclean including an image in my email
12:10 < fenn_adl> honestly i hate attachments
12:11 < fenn_adl> but if he's asking you might as well
12:11 < kanzure> "Can you please insert the screenshot in your email? I don't manage to open/display the png file.."
12:11 < kanzure> but it seems fine to me: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/opencascade_coordinate_axis_arrows.png
12:12 < fenn_adl> it's pretty lame that the default error for an un-configured svn over http is "repository permanently moved"
12:13 < fenn_adl> try encoding as .jpg :)
12:14 < fenn_adl> "i see the screenshot but my brain refuses to interpret it correctly!"
12:14 < kanzure> how could you *not* open png?
12:14 < fenn_adl> maybe he's using IE4
12:15 < kanzure> that's about the only possibility
12:15 < fenn_adl> erm. was this just a couple minutes ago?
12:15 < kanzure> yes
12:15 < fenn_adl> because i've been mucking with the server
12:15 < kanzure> leljadsjilfads;jhfa
12:19 < genehacker> cat on keyboard kanzure?
12:19 < fenn_adl> d'eaux
12:19 < fenn_adl> fucking svn
12:19 < fenn_adl> anon checkouts can commit
12:19 < kanzure> how does that happen?
12:20 < fenn_adl> DAV
12:20 < kanzure> can we disable that?
12:20 < fenn_adl>  WebDAV ('Web-based Distributed Authoring and Versioning') functionality for Apache. This extension to the HTTP protocol allows creating, moving, copying, and deleting resources and collections on a remote web server.
12:22 < fenn_adl> wah
12:23 < fenn_adl> this should be on sourceforge or something anyway
12:33 < kanzure> fenn did you run paths.py yet?
12:33 < fenn_adl> no, why?
12:34 < kanzure> did what you suggested
12:38 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/opencascade-coordinate-ax3.png
12:40 < fenn_adl> cool it works, and doesn't store passwd in plaintext
12:43 < kanzure> svn stored passwd in plain text?
12:44 < kanzure> so I'm a little concerned that there is nothing pointing in the positive y direction when I permutate across the possibilities for directions and vx vectors. 
12:45 < fenn_adl> well i dunno what /var/www/adl/conf/passwd is, you tell me
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12:46 < kanzure> hi nchaimov 
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12:47 < fenn_adl> whew ok so now finally i can add a sensible procedure for obtaining graphsynth
12:47 < kanzure> hm?
12:47 < fenn_adl> before it was all this 'click here, download this .zip, open visual studio blah blah blah'
13:04 < fenn_adl> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/linux_hints
13:10 < kanzure> I guess we should do some cli interface stuff for graphsynth eventually
13:11 < fenn_adl> i dont get why ironpython has to be its own interpreter
13:12 < fenn_adl> all it does is 'import clr'
13:14 < ybit> http://openwetware.org/wiki/Talk:DIYbio/FAQ 
13:14 < ybit> i hadn't seen it
13:15 < kanzure> ybit: I link to it all the time :p
13:17 < kanzure> oh, the talk page?
13:18 < ybit> i hadn't seen that particular message
13:18 < ybit> i've seen every other post on toolbook
13:18 < fenn_adl> oh i see, ironpython is actually running in .NET
13:19 < fenn_adl> however, there's also http://pythonnet.sourceforge.net/
13:19 < ybit> why are you looking at alternative python shells?
13:19 < kanzure> BECAUSE IRON PYTHON SUCKS
13:19 < kanzure> gah caps :(
13:19 < ybit> why are you using iron python?..
13:19 < fenn_adl> caps++
13:20 < fenn_adl> to try to bring matt campbell over from the dark side, one step at a time
13:22 < fenn_adl> aww. pythonnet is for windows
13:22 < fenn_adl> what's the fucking point of that
13:23 < kanzure> does it run under wine or mono?
13:24 < fenn_adl> "install the Windows version of Mono to run .NET executables"
13:24 < fenn_adl> that's what the .exe i just compiled says
13:24 < ybit> kanzure: so how did you finally get out of ipy?
13:25 < kanzure> ctrl+z and then killall -09 mono
13:25 < kanzure> er, killall -9
13:25 < ybit> ps -aux | grep ipython didn't show anything?
13:26 < fenn_adl> Why Should I Use .NET?
13:26 < fenn_adl> User Interfaces
13:26 < fenn_adl> Hardware SDKs
13:26  * ybit is familiar with kill -9 <pid> and killall firefox-bin or something like that but has never heard of killall -9
13:26 < fenn_adl> Enterprise-y Stuff
13:26 < fenn_adl> a powerful argument, who could resist!
13:26 < kanzure> people who don't know what they are doing
13:27 < drazak> kanzure: dude mac and jason jus tthink that bioweathermapping is good because they fucking suck'
13:27 < ybit> drazak: :)
13:27 < ybit> why even complain about them? some people aren't worth the time
13:27 < kanzure> domain squatters
13:28 < kanzure> domain squatters: they shit bricks on all of us
13:28 < fenn_adl> http://domainsquatters.com/
13:28 < kanzure> hahah
13:29 < fenn_adl> where's the typo chick?
13:29 < ybit> speaking of squatting, i've wondered why heath.im doesn't forward properly to a dyndns address.
13:29 < kanzure> forwarding sucks
13:29 < ybit> i hate that address, but it might as well be going somewhere while it exists
13:29 < fenn_adl> because it's pointing at 217.70.184.38
13:29 < fenn_adl> you need CNAME heath.dyndns.org or whatever
13:30 < fenn_adl> ybit: do 'dig heath.im'
13:30 < fenn_adl> then do 'dig fennetic.net'
13:31 < ybit> htdig?
13:31 < kanzure> no
13:31 < fenn_adl> apt-get install dnsutils
13:31 < ybit> or the digger.org tool
13:32  * ybit is gentoo
13:32 < fenn_adl> uhm, sorry, whatever gentoo uses
13:32 < kanzure> woah wtf 
13:32  * kanzure got his pay check this morning
13:32 < kanzure> it's more than triple what I got last time
13:32 < kanzure> but the hours I wrote down was like one third
13:32 < fenn_adl> doesn't it say how many hours on the paycheck?
13:33 < kanzure> yes but I'm only on the bank site
13:33 < fenn_adl> do you actually get a paycheck stub html page somewhere?
13:34 < kanzure> yes
13:35  * ybit wonders how many hours lendingclub would waste from his time
13:35 < kanzure> well, anyway. that's a relief. I think I can just spontaneously show up and hit up alex or something
13:37 < kanzure> fenn: gp_Trsf hasn't been updated since march of 1990
13:37 < fenn_adl> does the bug exist when called from c++?
13:38 < kanzure> dunno. am looking at gp_Trsf.cxx 
13:41 < fenn_adl> re: paths.py fixed? gp_Ax1 doesn't take into account rotation around the normal vector
13:42 < fenn_adl> and anyway how do i got from x_vec and y_vec to gp_Ax1?
13:42 < fenn_adl> s/got/go/
13:43 < kanzure> gp_Ax1(Point, Direction)
13:43 < fenn_adl> i mean, uh, i'm not on master, nevermind
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13:59 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r 6cb38da /paths.py: move cone off center so we can better see rotations
14:04 < fenn_adl> looks sort of like a bottle rocket
14:06 < kanzure> did that actually do anything?
14:07 < fenn_adl> now you can see 4 arrow heads in a cluster
14:07 < fenn_adl> cone probably isnt the best shape for this
14:08 < fenn_adl> a 'flag" would be better but i dunno how to do that easily
14:09  * fenn_adl tries out BRepBuilderAPI_MakePolygon
14:28 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r 3df3929 /paths.py: change cone to flag shape
14:30 < fenn_adl> should look like this http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/occ_fubar.png
14:31 < kanzure> what are the flags indicating?
14:36 < fenn_adl> rotation around the axis of the flag
14:39 < kanzure> what's teh game plan?
14:39 < kanzure> I don't really know what to do
14:43 < kanzure> first of all, shouldn't the red arrow be pointing outwards? perpendicular to the blue line
14:43 < fenn_adl> make a function to convert (point, x_vec, y_vec) to (gp_Ax1, rotation)
14:44 < kanzure> where rotation is a number, not any special object?
14:44 < fenn_adl> yeah
14:45 < fenn_adl> another way to think about it is (point, normal vector, rotation)
14:45 < kanzure> what would thisw be sed for?
14:45 < kanzure> *used for
14:45 < fenn_adl> that might be more useful actually, not having to go through OCC
14:45 < kanzure> *this
14:45 < kanzure> okay
14:45 < fenn_adl> well point_shape works well enough
14:45 < fenn_adl> so i'll just use that instead of SetTransformation
14:46 < fenn_adl> i dont know how to get the rotation around Z given X and Y vectors
14:46 < kanzure> you'll use point__shape() instead of SetRotation?
14:46 < fenn_adl> uh, i think point_shape uses SetRotation
14:46 < kanzure> sorry, SetTransformation
14:46 < kanzure> gah, I was wondering what "that" was for 14:45
14:47 < fenn_adl> yes, use point_shape instead of SetTransformation
14:47 < fenn_adl> point_shape can return the transform instead of causing side effect
14:48 < kanzure> then you don't want the converter function?
14:48 < fenn_adl> point_shape doesn't give me rotation around the normal :(
14:49 < fenn_adl> should probably split out the mathy parts of point_shape into a different function
14:49 < fenn_adl> something that just always returns a trsf
14:50 < fenn_adl> point, x_vec, y_vec in, trsf out
14:54 < kanzure> is it possible to go from point, x_vec and y_vec to get a rotation around a normal vector? the normal vector is the dot product, but the rotation is not necessarily known .. is it?
14:54 < kanzure> er, cross product
14:56 < kanzure> http://steve.hollasch.net/cgindex/math/rotvec.html rotating one vector about another
15:00 < kanzure> heh allegro.cc :) http://www.allegro.cc/forums/print-thread/199643
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15:08 < kanzure> nice 3D rotation / matrix math tutorial: http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article1279.asp
15:51 -!- toed [i=toad@proxima.lp0.eu] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:52 < fenn_adl> could http://steve.hollasch.net/cgindex/math/rotvec.html equations be inverted to get x? (the rotation value)
15:53 < kanzure> hi toed
15:53 < kanzure> everyone, meet toed. he
15:53 < kanzure> 'll prolbably be TAing my M408D next semester
15:53 < toed> wait so you will be in my section?
15:54 < toed> also hi
15:54 < fenn_adl> hello
15:54 < toed> who's the professor kanzure 
15:54 < kanzure> guess I'm not really sure :) there's this slight chance I might choose to fly up to CA for a juicy 'job'
15:54 < kanzure> hm I haven't checked, they don't tell us professors usually
15:54 < kanzure> they just give us times 
15:54 < fenn_adl> not-job
15:54 < toed> the lecture is at 830?
15:55 < fenn_adl> my condolences
15:55 < toed> or give me the unique number or whatever
15:55 < kanzure> that was my section last semester
15:55 < kanzure> don't want to get your hopes up
15:56 < toed> i kind of hope you're not in my section
15:56 < toed> since i told you i got a bad grade in this in undergrad
15:56 < kanzure> yes I'm secretly this ridiculously evil student out to get you
15:56 < kanzure> so evil in fact that I monitor all IRC channels for utexas activity
15:57 < kanzure> in the sslightest hope that I will get to exploit some poor grad TA man
15:57 < toed> precisely
15:57 < toed> you will get me fired and ruin my life
15:57 < fenn_adl> it's true, i can provide evidence
15:57 < kanzure> wait wait, I'm being sarcastic, fenn
15:57 < fenn_adl> oh, ok. nevermind then
15:57 < kanzure> don't you have a bus to catch?
15:58 < fenn_adl> think i can learn how to use sympy in 7 minutes?
15:58 < kanzure> depends on what you want to do
15:59 < fenn_adl> invert p' = p*cos(x)-q*sin(x)
15:59 < fenn_adl> (solve for x)
16:00 < fenn_adl> wut. i can't even import sympy
16:00 < fenn_adl> ImportError: cannot import name Outcome
16:00 < kanzure> did you install it?
16:00 < kanzure> it's not named Outcome
16:00 < fenn_adl> it's some unit test sympy runs when you import it (weird no?)
16:01 < fenn_adl> from py.__.test.outcome import Outcome, Passed, Failed, Skipped
16:01 < fenn_adl> gah
16:01 < fenn_adl> that fucking egg
16:01 < kanzure> is that something that people commonly do? unit tests upon importing?
16:01 < fenn_adl> i knew it would bite me
16:01 < kanzure> oh, did you apt-get it?
16:01 < fenn_adl> of course
16:02 < fenn_adl> but remember you made me install py.test egg
16:02 < kanzure> huh
16:02 < fenn_adl> of course there is no easy_install --remove
16:02 < kanzure> well, I seem to be able to "import sympy" just fine
16:03 < kanzure> toed: using sympy would be an awesome way to teach a math class :p
16:03 < toed> what's that
16:04 < kanzure> uh, I guess it's just like matlab except for python
16:04 < fenn_adl> oh well. another week down the drain /me stomps off
16:04 < kanzure> symbolic math stuff
16:04 < toed> oh i'm useless at computers
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16:22 < kanzure> hey davidnunez 
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16:41 < genehacker> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/
16:41 < genehacker> cool talk on protein folding here live
16:52 < CIA-32> skdb: kanzure * r f86c2fa /paths.py: find the normal vector and the angle of rotation about the normal vector given x vec, y vec, and a point
17:02 < genehacker> whoa
17:02 < genehacker> they're using fold it for protein design!
17:02 < genehacker> hehehehehehehehehe
17:03 < genehacker> using the collective computing power of a bunch of people to design HIV vaccines
17:05 < kanzure> foldit came out quite a while ago (a few months), and I'm not convinced that our analytical options are exhausted
17:16 < kanzure> " It's possible for all Debian Developers with GPG key on the official Debian keyring to tweet under the @debian account. " 
17:16 < kanzure>  $ echo "Hello Twitterland" | gpg --clearsign | lwp-request -m POST http://twitter.debian.net/post  
17:17 < kanzure> gah that seems almost useless
17:19 < kanzure>  apvlv      - PDF viewer with Vim-like behaviour 
17:20 < kanzure>  python-ball - Python bindings for the Biochemical Algorithms Library
17:21 < drazak> so uh
17:21 < drazak> I need to figure out how to molecularly prove that some shit interact
17:21 < drazak> so
17:21 < drazak> well that was a bad description
17:23 < drazak> so there's these proteins called cadherins, they anchor cells to one another, gap junctions like to form near them, inside the cells part of the cadherin interacts with beta-catenin and forms a sort of cellular signalling network, I want to see if beta-catenin loses amino acids when it's interacting with cadherin, what's the best way to do this?
17:26 < fenn> auto-apt checks the file access of programs running within its environments, and if a program tries to access a file known to belong in an uninstalled package, auto-apt will install that package using apt-get.
17:26 < fenn> i wonder how it knows which one to get
17:26 < fenn> if there are multiple choices, that is
17:26 < kanzure> drazak: IIRC, these types of studies usually involve crystallography at one point or another unless you know what you're doing
17:27 < fenn> no, binding affinity doesn't use crystallography
17:27 < kanzure> he said loses amino acids
17:27 < kanzure> that's structural
17:27 < fenn> you could find the amino acid sequence
17:27 < fenn> i dont really know how that works though
17:28 < drazak> kanzure: well what I think happens is that the protein loses some off either it's c or n terminus
17:28 < drazak> kanzure: because it's only a small difference in size, 2-3kDa
17:28 < drazak> kanzure: you can see it on a western blot
17:29 < kanzure> can you mass the subunits of the beta-catenin?
17:29 < fenn> it could be a kinase phosphorylation maybe
17:29 < drazak> fenn: usually phosphorylation doesn't cause a noticable size change with sds page
17:30 < drazak> kanzure: I want to do some sort of protease footprinting
17:31 < drazak> kanzure: my hypothesis is that when beta-catenin and n-cadherin interact beta-catenin is the same as the rna would lead you to believe, and then something happens to the cadherin, we know they have some sort of signaling or phosphorylization that causes something to happen, and then it cuts off part of the beta catenin and it acts like a transcription factor (the main part of the beta catenin)
17:33 < drazak> hmm I could do a gel-shift with recombinant beta-catenin, in it's natural state, from n-cadherin- cells
17:44 < ybit> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/unsorted/Computerized_Manufacturing_Process_Planning_Systems.tar.bz2
17:44 < ybit> last of the scanned books
18:02 < kanzure> gp_Trsf.cdl
18:08 < fenn> can anyone read this character? �
18:09 < kanzure> no
18:09 < kanzure> try #linguistics ?
18:10 < fenn> it just looks like a question mark in a box to me
18:10 < kanzure> in a diamond for me
18:10 < QuantumG> hexagon
18:10 < kanzure> hexagon, fine
18:10 < kanzure> thank you basic geometry man
18:11 < kanzure> QuantumG: could you solve our matrix math difficulties?
18:11 < fenn> it's not actually our matrix math that's causing the difficulty
18:11 < QuantumG> maybe, what's the problem?
18:11 < fenn> i want to transform from one coordinate system to another (no scaling)
18:11 < QuantumG> rebasing
18:12 < fenn> i have a point and two vectors (the x and y axis)
18:12 < fenn> so in opencascade you make a transformation by doing gp_Trsf() and then calling methods like SetRotation or SetTranslation
18:12 < fenn> there's also one called SetTransformation which accepts a coordinate system
18:13 < fenn> but, as i eventually figured out, it doesn't work right
18:13 < fenn> but the SetRotation and SetTranslation stuff does
18:14 < fenn> so i'm trying to construct a series of rotations to create the same transformation as i would have gotten by setting it directly
18:14 < fenn> is this making sense?
18:15 < QuantumG> ahh
18:15 < fenn> i know how to derive azimuth and elevation angles, given a vector, but how do i find the rotation around the vector (around the vector's axis)
18:16 < QuantumG> http://www.sosmath.com/matrix/eigen1/eigen1.html  any of that help?
18:16 < fenn> why would i want an eigenvalue?
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18:16 < fenn> it's just a problem of two vectors
18:18 -!- baud_fox [n=Administ@82-32-209-168.cable.ubr07.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:18 < QuantumG> well, I don't really understand what you're trying to solve.. but I tend to solve these sorts of things when I draw them on whiteboard/paper
18:18 < kanzure> hello baud_fox 
18:18 < baud_fox> Hello!
18:18 < fenn> it's really more of a 3d problem, hard to draw on paper
18:18 -!- any74514115 [n=someone@75-120-28-110.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:19 < kanzure> so if you're given two vectors, how is it that you expect to get an angle out of that in some way other than the method I wrote?
18:19 < fenn> kanzure: how do i delete an easy_install egg?
18:20 < kanzure> manually. try looking in site-packages
18:20 -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-121-61-39.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:20 < kanzure> there might be easy_uninstall (they might be crazy enough to do that crap)
18:21 < QuantumG> is there some reason you're not using the dot product?
18:21 < fenn> kanzure: i think it's the inverse of f(x)=p*cos(x)-q*sin(x) and g(x)=p*sin(x)+q*cos(x)
18:21 < fenn> dot product projects one vector on another right?
18:21 < fenn> the magnitude
18:22 < kanzure> there's actually a way to calculate vector projections if that's what you're asking
18:22 < QuantumG> angle between two vectors = arccos(a.b / |a||b|)
18:22 < baud_fox> Sorry to interrupt guys, but what's this channel for? 
18:22 < fenn> taking over the world
18:22 < baud_fox> Sounds good
18:23 < kanzure> robot armies
18:24 < kanzure> not sure "angle between two vectors" is right because that's what I did and fenn says it's wrong
18:24 < fenn> it's the same equation you had
18:24 < kanzure> well technically I forgot to divide by the product of their absolute magnitudes
18:24 < QuantumG> so.. knowing what your problem is would be a good start.
18:25 < fenn> dammit i know what the problem is
18:25 < QuantumG> we dont obviously
18:25 < fenn> i have two vectors, i rotate azimuth and elevation to get the first vector
18:25 < fenn> now what is the rotation around the first vector to get the second vector
18:25  * fenn gets out kolourpaint
18:26 < kanzure> inkscape?
18:26 < fenn> apparently people don't seem to understand unless it's drawn badly
18:26 < kanzure> baud_fox: how'd you end up in here?
18:28 < baud_fox> Some guy named Bryan suggested I come over here, after a posted to a mailing list expressing my concern that nothing was happening with Open Source Medicine
18:28 < baud_fox> *after I posted
18:28 < kanzure> that would be me
18:28 < kanzure> you're in the right place
18:28 < baud_fox> That's good to know :)
18:29 < kanzure> do you know about apt-get, yum, or anything like that?
18:29 < baud_fox> I had no idea this place existed
18:29 < bkero> Hah
18:29 < baud_fox> Yeah, I'm familiar with them
18:30 < kanzure> baud_fox: so, that's what we're doing in here for hardware, including medical equipment but also manufacturing equipment, and various biotech/chem lab equipment projects
18:30 < fenn> ok QuantumG here is your crappy drawing http://fennetic.net/irc/rotations.png
18:31 < fenn> i'm after the green angle
18:32 < fenn> or maybe 360 - green angle
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18:33 < QuantumG> fenn: http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/api/html/classOgre_1_1Vector3.html#eeef4472ad0c4d5f34a038a9f2faa819   does that help?
18:34 < fenn> wtf doxygen? how is that supposed to help?
18:34 < QuantumG> "Gets the shortest arc quaternion to rotate this vector to the destination vector. "
18:35 < genehacker> kanzure
18:35 < QuantumG> and if you click on the 635 you get source
18:35 < genehacker> http://dev.forums.reprap.org/read.php?23,9826
18:35 < kanzure> genehacker: I called him the other day
18:35 < kanzure> john griessen, I mean
18:35 < genehacker> oh cool
18:35 < genehacker> and?
18:35 < kanzure> he's cool :)
18:35 < genehacker> excellent
18:36 < baud_fox> kanzure:  You've lost me a bit :)  How is it possible to do that with hardware? 
18:36 < genehacker> MORE BRAINS!!!
18:37 < kanzure> baud_fox: think of a factory as /dev more than anything- and if you don't have those tools wired up, then you should be able to read instructions on how to put things together.
18:37 < kanzure> baud_fox: that might not be the answer you were looking for
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18:37 < kanzure> dunno if anyone noticed, but fenn SUCKS at diagrams
18:38 < fenn> insolence!
18:38 < kanzure> I will not tolerate this insubordination in my court room, mr. fenn
18:38 < fenn> i happen to think it's pretty good for being drawn with a touchpad
18:38 < kanzure> you have a tablet pc literally 7 inches behind you
18:38 < kanzure> wtf man
18:38 < fenn> it's infested
18:38 < kanzure> have you tried rebooting into kubuntu?
18:39 < fenn> no
18:39 < kanzure> well that's why
18:39 < fenn> it's still infested
18:40 < baud_fox> kanzure: still don't quite understand. Are we talking about modular hardware?
18:40 < kanzure> what is modular hardware?
18:41 < fenn> the idea is if you need to dig a hole you apt-get install backhoe
18:41 < fenn> and if there's no precompiled backhoe available, you assemble it from parts
18:41 < baud_fox> a PC, for example - different hardware modules which can be added/configured depending on the application
18:41 < fenn> and if there's no parts available, you compile the parts from metals
18:41 -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-120-5-153.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
18:41 < fenn> and if there's no metal available, you derive it from ore
18:41 < fenn> etc
18:43 < baud_fox> ok
18:44 < kanzure> fenn: joseph wants to pay us $1k
18:44 < fenn> seeing how i'm performing design, engineering, programming, manufacturing, and have no specifications.. i'm not sure that's enough
18:44 < fenn> in multiple domains no less
18:45 < fenn> mechanical, thermal, electronic
18:45 < kanzure> well it would be constrained to the amount of work that we could get done from now until the end of next month
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18:55 < kanzure> fenn: I told joseph we want to do a conference call with him, he says he'll call on sunday or monday. sorry.
18:57 < fenn> there are surprisingly few drawings like this on the net http://www.emeraldinsight.com/fig/0490280503001.png
18:58 < fenn> note that it rotates around the origin axes twice and then around the axis of the cylinder
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18:59 < ybit> fenn: wow that is a crappy drawing :P
18:59 < ybit> inkscape could have helped you in making it less crappy :P
19:00 < fenn> fuck all of you
19:00 < kanzure> fenn: how about a journey to #math ?
19:01 < fenn> oh come on, if it's anything like any other #subject channel it's 90% bullshitting and 10% esoterica
19:01 < kanzure> well it's different. don't know how to explain it.
19:04 < ybit> haha, love how the first comment is on how ugly it is 
19:04 < kanzure> 19:04 < purplepenguins> lol
19:04 < kanzure> 19:04 < purplepenguins> that's the best illustration ever
19:05 < fenn> sigh
19:05 < kanzure> #math says it is incomprehensible
19:05 < kanzure> (aside from the ugliness)
19:05 < fenn> i guess i shouldnt have put the X' in the same plane as X
19:05 < ybit> there is one guy in there who is always helpful, even if he is an asshole to "n00bs"
19:06 < kanzure> tmcdwrb or something?
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19:08 < kanzure> aw :(
19:08 < ybit> kanzure: i forget his name, and yeah i was about to baud_fox a few questions
19:08 < ybit> oh well, /me is sleepy
19:08 < ybit> oh, i think it's something like TMZ[BLAH]
19:08 < ybit> ALLCAPS
19:09 < genehacker> modular hardware is hardware that comes in modules
19:09 < ybit> anywho, i'm going to complete my todo list and go night night early 
19:09 < kanzure> ybit: see? you spend all of your time todoing
19:09 < kanzure> rather than doing
19:09 < ybit> this is me completing today's todo
19:10 < genehacker> for example robot arm can attach to a point that could also hold a sensor module
19:10 < genehacker> modular hardware would be cool
19:10 < genehacker> if everything was modular and everything could connect
19:10 < kanzure> you mean, "interchangeable parts"?
19:10 < kanzure> like the fraud that was known as "the industrial revolution"?
19:11 < genehacker> yeah
19:11 < genehacker> screws are almost interchangeable
19:24 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/gp_Trsf.cxx
19:25 < fenn> screws are interchangeable
19:25 < fenn> so are gears
19:26 < fenn> nothing else mechanical seems to have reached a similar level of standardization
19:27 < kanzure> fenn: loc.Reverse() is just set x=-x, y=-y, z=-z for gp_XYZ
19:27 < kanzure> that's because to the untrained eye it's just "random chunks and hunks of metal"
19:27 < kanzure> "a rod? why would you standardize a rod"
19:27 < fenn> are you referring to something in particular?
19:27 < kanzure> no
19:29 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/gp_Trsf.cdl
19:29 < kanzure> doesn't look too much different from the HTML reference documentation however
19:32 < kanzure> so why does SetTransformation(from, to) use 
19:32 < kanzure> matrix.SetCol (1, ToA2.XDirection().XYZ());
19:32 < kanzure> but in SetTransformation(to) there's:
19:32 < kanzure>   matrix.SetCols (A3.XDirection().XYZ(),
19:32 < kanzure>                   A3.YDirection().XYZ(),
19:32 < kanzure>                   A3. Direction().XYZ());
19:32 < kanzure> I'm guessing it's practically the same thing but maybe it's possible the implementation is wrong?
19:34 -!- baud_fox [n=Administ@82-32-209-168.cable.ubr07.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:34 < baud_fox> Greetings
19:34 < kanzure> greetings
19:35 < baud_fox> Apologies for the abrupt departure
19:37 < baud_fox> I'm still not clear what this hardware project is btw. I'm curious, but confused.
19:38 < baud_fox> It almost sounds like we're talking about a universal assembler.
19:42 < kanzure> well we're certainly interested in universal von Neumann self-replicating machines.
19:42 < ybit> but that's not what it is
19:43 < kanzure> ideally, I want to be able to sit at my computer and demand my machines make me my tools to make even more stuff
19:43 < kanzure> but in the mean time I'm happy carrying out instructions to build things that I would otherwise not know how to build
19:43 < kanzure> (this is called skdb, btw)
19:43 < ybit> build me a screw!
19:43 < kanzure> never!
19:43 < baud_fox> Ahh, ok
19:43 < kanzure> oh wait
19:44  * kanzure gives ybit a screw
19:44 < baud_fox> So how would you achieve this? Through something like rapid prototyping?
19:44 < kanzure> rapid prototyping is a subset of the manufacturing techniques involved
19:44 < kanzure> one moment ..
19:44 < ybit> any machine needed to build whatever it is that you are building
19:45 < kanzure> so there are some "techniques" like rapid prototyping, or milling, etc. that are included
19:45 < kanzure> see here:
19:45 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/processes.yaml
19:45 < kanzure> here are some "packages" that you can download and have your computer build:
19:45 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/
19:45 < kanzure> the "screw" package depends on a thread rolling technique, for instance, which you might know or have a machine that implements (a thread rolling technique)
19:45 < baud_fox> fascinating
19:47  * ybit wonders if some hackerspaces implementing this system will have machines continually processing raw materials and shipping them off
19:48 < kanzure> ybit: well that's the idea isn't it? smt machines already do that
19:48 < kanzure> but they don't operate under this sort of framework
19:48 < kanzure> mostly because I don't have an smt machine to play with :p
19:48 < ybit> because naturally some spaces will be closer and have more of certain raw materials then others
19:48 < kanzure> smari was working on an xmlrpc system for order requests across multiple fablabs
19:59 < drazak> kanzure: so what sort of data is the lab supposed to send back
19:59 < drazak> kanzure: that takes so much analysis on the diy communities part
20:03 < kanzure> fuck if I know
20:03 < drazak> I mean
20:03 < drazak> presumably they just tell you what species it is
20:19 < kanzure> "The Foresight Nanotech Institute (formerly Foresight Institute) is a Palo Alto, California-based nonprofit organization for increasing awareness about the uses and consequences of molecular nanotechnology. They sponsor conferences on the subject, publish reports, and produce a newsletter."
20:20 < kanzure> Foresight Institute was founded to guide emerging technologies to improve the human condition but focused its efforts upon nanotechnology, the ability to engineer materials and products with atomic precision, and upon systems to enhance communication for policy decisions. "[1] In 2005 the Foresight Institute changed its name to "Foresight Nanotech Institute" and narrowed its mission to nanotechnology.
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21:19 < kanzure> *fuck*
21:19 < kanzure> scp doesn't know not to overwrite a directory
21:27 < kanzure> god scp sucks
21:50 < ybit> anyone know of where i can get a cad file for any type of engine...
21:52 < ybit> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=204483&d=1152709168 is nice, but i need more detail
21:52 < ybit> something like this http://www.alanhamby.com/Gallery/schematic.jpg
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22:33 < ybit> v6, v8 preferably, don't really care for four cylinder engines
22:43 < fenn> actual cad files seem to be hard to come across
22:43 < fenn> there are probably a zillion artistic 3d models out there though
22:44 < fenn> duh. how about this? http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/preview.aspx?ModelCode=3229
22:49 < genehacker> that's because actual cad files are usually made by companies
22:50 < genehacker> and companies don't want other people making their stuff
22:50 < fenn> it's not like anyone's going to make a 1980's GM engine
22:50 < ybit> fenn, that's excellent
22:50 < fenn> ybit: seems you have to register, probably means $$
22:51 < genehacker> well not any company at least
22:51 < genehacker> maybe us
22:51 < genehacker> maybe neal stephenson's internal combustion engine clade....
22:53 < fenn> ybit: from http://www.netquickposse.org/hamb/  http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116868
22:53 < fenn> later it gets a lot more detail
22:54 < genehacker> fenn is that a 3d model of a car?
22:54 < genehacker> of a whole car?
22:55 < genehacker> http://corleytech.com/storage/post-images/1237240452958.jpg
23:00 < genehacker> wow
23:01 < fenn> the car appears rather incomplete
23:02 < fenn> but hey this looks like an engine at least http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=589761&d=1233443097
23:08 < ybit> -_- you can't download the cads from 3dcadbrowser
23:08 < ybit> http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/register.aspx
23:09 < genehacker> dang
23:09 < genehacker> I can't download a car then
23:09 < fenn> ybit: no it links to some other site (renderosity)
23:10 < fenn> the url was ungodly long so i just linked to the first page
23:11 < ybit> eh?
23:12 < ybit> http://www.theoscarproject.org/ seems to be going nowhere, no cad files there, just a few documents on their manifesto
23:12 < ybit> fenn: "Please register and/or login before unlocking and downloading 3D models."
23:13 < ybit> and you have to pay to download the cad files
23:14 < genehacker> I won't pay for a 3d model of  a car
23:14 < genehacker> can't anyone seed this?
23:14 < ybit> i'm sure they can, but i doubt anyone willing to pay for these cad files is willing to torrent
23:15 < ybit> maybe someone is, but it'd be difficult to find out who paid for what
23:18 < genehacker> well what matters is that we can't compile a car
23:18 < genehacker> yet...
23:24 < ybit> http://tir38.com/archives/73
23:24 < ybit> i want something like this: http://www.virtualengine2000.com/EngineCADInfo.htm
23:26 < ybit> http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/Search.aspx?arg=3d cad
23:27 < ybit> you have to register, but at least you cand download the files
23:38 < fenn> ybit: http://fennetic.net/irc/hamb_engine_solid.png http://fennetic.net/irc/hamb_engine_solid2.png http://fennetic.net/irc/hamb_engine_wire.png
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23:40 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/CAD/Nook-RAD-20088-HL_SSE-1_X05-2_CC_6_S.zip
23:40 < ybit> that's an electrical cylinder, in .stl
23:41 < fenn> what's an electrical cylinder?
23:41 < fenn> ballscrew?
23:41 < ybit> oh yeah, i forgot about that image fenn, where is that CAD file?
23:41 < fenn> http://www.netquickposse.org/hamb/
23:41 < fenn> gotta catch em all
23:42 < ybit> oh yeah, the lego repo
23:42 < ybit> i dunno what the diff is for electric cylinders and regular
23:43 < fenn> i think they are actuall roller screws
23:43 < fenn> not ball screws
23:43 < ybit> not sure how that would make it electric
23:44 < fenn> it has a servo
23:45 < ybit> ah
23:53 < fenn> that cad model was probably from http://www.nookindustries.com/Nook3DPS/index.cfm?action=catalog&section=RAD%20Series%20Electric%20Cylinder%20Actuators