--- Day changed Wed Sep 09 2009
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00:13 < kanzure> http://www.geocities.com/gundam_08th/RX-79G.html
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00:59 < genehacker> what does it use for actuation?
01:00 < genehacker> Huge superconducting electric motors hooked up to huge harmonic drives?
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05:30 < fenn> man that looks just as crappy as the original xml
05:34 < fenn> did they really write up 260 different artifacts?
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06:57 < kanzure> fenn: no what they did was click around in repositoryEntryApp
06:57 < kanzure> which is even worse.
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07:36 < kanzure> what is it with you bloomington people and fencing? 
07:36 < kanzure> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~walter/about.html
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09:51 < kanzure> fenn: you'll need to fill out http://www.tramor.com/austin/creekvillage/default.htm for the apartment
09:54 < kanzure> it's not an immediate priority
09:55 < kanzure> hm I must have missed this: http://search.cpan.org/~markov/XML-Compile-1.07/bin/xml2yaml (not that it matters)
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11:04 < kanzure> automating maintenance instructions study: http://cg.cis.upenn.edu/hms/research/PAR/docs/ami-new.pdf
11:04 < kanzure> I'm only up to page 13, but so far its' nice
11:04 < kanzure> *it's
11:05 < kanzure> not sure how the long action names given on page 11 work .. I guess they are expecting only humans to be doing the maintenance and thus an action with a name like "grasp-a-steering-wheel" or "sit-with-foot-on-the-accelerator-pedal" isn't completely crazy.
11:06 < kanzure> they have this "parameterized action representation" that they are using. each par has some tests to determine whether or not the action is applicable in a certain 'scene' or situation.
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11:07 < fenn> kanzure: you know writing lots of code is a bad thing right?
11:15 < kanzure> just trying to make stuff work
11:20 < dira> it is evaluated as original sine in 21st century
11:21 < kanzure> http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/project/ghostwriter/ "The prototype has been used to demonstrate the interactive and semi-automatic production of a significant portion of a complex maintenance procedure for the Falcon 900 aircraft in both English and French. The resulting texts are at a level close to that produced by human authors."
11:24 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r c390d62 /gui/gui.py: App.working_part
11:24 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r e4e4a0a /paths.py: fix pick_interface, added show_bounding_box
11:24 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r 692f382 / (core/skdb.py tests/test_geom.py tests/test_mating.py): make test_geom pass; move crap that locks up into its own file
11:24 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r b43f091 /paths.py: simplify and remove unused junk
11:27 < fenn> no example output from ghostwriter?
11:29 < fenn> kanzure does test_mating.py hang for you?
11:34 < kanzure> gimme a sec
11:35 < kanzure> pg 40 has "figure 23" .. I think the "trees" thingy (last line) is how they are able to determine whether or not that user's capability (from a capability list) match what the instruction generator intended
11:35 < kanzure> the meaning of that snytax was explained earlier in the document however
11:35 < kanzure> not sure why they chose to be so cryptic about it (everything else is clear, so why not the lexical stuff?)
11:35 < kanzure> fenn: seems to.
11:37 < kanzure> heh neat there's a glossary
11:39 < kanzure> yeah page 19 has the first appearance of the weird symbols seen in pg40 fig23
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11:45 < kanzure> oh boy. "lexalized tree-adjoining grammars"
11:45 < kanzure> *lexicalized
11:46 < fenn> what is geom.add_shape for?
11:46 < fenn> '''add a shape to self.ais_shapes. this isn't as exciting as you think it is.'''
11:46 < kanzure> self.ais_shapes is now self.shapes
11:47 < kanzure> geom.add_shape can be deleted
11:47 < kanzure> s/self.shapes/Part.shapes/
11:47 < kanzure> unless add_shape is a Part method
11:47 < kanzure> um it probably is but it's not used anywhere anyway
11:48 < kanzure> holy shit the authors of that paper actually have code and a mailing list for their bullshit
11:48 < kanzure> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~xtag/swrelease.html
11:59 < kanzure> norman badler is worth stalking
12:06 < fenn> damn i seem to have lost all the volume stuff in geom through a series of git screwups
12:07 < fenn> oh wait nevermind
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12:10 < kanzure> heh they have a python implementation
12:10 < kanzure> or at least, I think this indicates they have a python implementation: http://cg.cis.upenn.edu/hms/research/PAR/docs/parSlides.txt
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12:11 < kanzure> yay for randomly guessing URLs: http://cg.cis.upenn.edu/hms/research/PAR/code/
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12:11 < kanzure> gah 403
12:13 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r 8253cb6 / (geom/geom.py tests/test_geom.py): use Bnd_Box.IsOut
12:13 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r db24c9f / (geom/geom.py tests/test_gui.py): trying to clean up geom
12:13 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r dcff348 /geom/geom.py: remove old unused junk
12:13 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r f9c337d /geom/ (geom.py volume_collision.py): move volume stuff out of geom
12:13 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r 70c11f4 /geom/geom.py: remove more junk
12:15 < fenn> geom.Rotation and Translation were for storing gp_Trsf-like things in yaml, right?
12:15 < fenn> couldnt we just save x_vec and y_vec instead?
12:16 < fenn> er, point, x_vec, y_vec
12:16 < kanzure> Rotation and Translation were not for storing 
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13:42 < fenn> attack of the clones
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14:04 < kanzure> http://cg.cis.upenn.edu/hms/research/PAR/movies/ 
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14:04 < kanzure> http://cg.cis.upenn.edu/hms/research/PAR/code/databaseGUI/c++_tips.txt still 404.. hm.
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14:08 < kanzure> need to stalk: ftp://ftp.cis.upenn.edu/pub/
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14:43 < kardan|> wow, we got a downstream of your videos of 5 mb, kanzure 
15:15 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r 78da328 /geom/geom.py: oops, need this for Shape
15:15 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r 95025e9 /paths.py: transparent bounding boxes
15:15 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r 0af67cb /gui/gui.py: added delete function
15:15 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r bad6522 /paths.py: save AIS handles for later use?
15:16 < fenn> well that was surprisingly easy
15:16  * fenn twiddles furiously
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15:57 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r f71f57a /paths.py: bad search and replace
16:00 < CIA-32> skdb: fenn * r 1daf796 /packages/threads/threads.py: try importing geom
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17:30 < genehacker> http://googlebookdownloader.codeplex.com/
17:31 < genehacker> hehehehe
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18:09 < fenn> kanzure: http://falstad.com/mathphysics.html http://falstad.com/circuit/
18:10 < fenn> apparently openfarmtech is using that as their electronics simulator
19:02 < fenn> are there tools to find duplicate information in a giant mess of files?
19:03 < fenn> (have i asked this before?)
19:03 < fenn> i know gqview had some sort of image search function
19:04 < fenn> but i'm thinking more general, like for source code or cad files
19:04 < ybit> the gingery machines, was any of this released online, because from what i see it's all in book format
19:04  * ybit is looking for welding projects
19:04 < fenn> it's all in book format
19:04 < ybit> bkero, katsmeow-afk..
19:04 < ybit> fenn?
19:04 < ybit> grr
19:04 < fenn> however, if you need scans of the books, that's available *ahem*
19:05  * ybit wants
19:05 < ybit> *cough*url?*cough*
19:06 < fenn> hold on
19:06 < fenn> gingery didnt use much welding in his books
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19:06 < fenn> i think only the gas furnace and sheet metal brake were welded
19:06 < ybit> thinking of creating my own workbench
19:06 < ybit> since i don't have one
19:06 < ybit> that might be useful to have
19:10 < ybit> speaking of sheet metal: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rolls/rolls.html
19:10 < fenn> wow kanzure i'm impressed with your gingery collection
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19:10 < ybit> http://www.majorleagueduning.com/tech/Brake/Brake.htm
19:10 < ybit> don't really understand the point of this yet: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/stand1/stand.html
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19:11 < fenn> hmm its 372MB
19:11 < fenn> that'll take a while
19:11 < ybit> http://www.zena.net/htdocs/welders/projects.shtml Build Your Own 150A, 100% Duty Cycle, Mobile Welder Build Your Own 400A, 100% Duty Cycle, Mobile Welder
19:14 < fenn> ybit: tellme what you want first: http://pastebin.ca/1560510
19:15 < QuantumG> Just reviewed our itinerary for SpaceVision in November, it's going to be one hell of a good trip. Are you going? http://bit.ly/1ptfeh
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19:20 < ybit> drwxr-xr-x 2 fenn fenn 4.0K 2009-09-09 19:09 Dave Gingery - Build Your Own Metalworking Shop From Scrap 1-5
19:20 < ybit> and Metal Cutting Bandsaw.pdf
19:21 < fenn> okie, 1-4 on their way
19:22 < fenn> uh. apparently fennetic.net is having dns troubles
19:24 < ybit> filebin and dcc send rarely fails :)
19:25 < ybit> or if it's on adl, sftp or wget works too
19:26 < fenn> dcc never works, are you kidding?
19:27 < ybit> by the time the general workbench, welding workbench, and welder cart are built, maybe tim will have documents available on his machine
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19:29 < ybit> i should have been, but i'm most just suggesting alternate means of sharing if all else fails
19:29 < fenn> 5min ETA
19:32 < kanzure> the problem ks our upload
19:32 < kanzure> so it wouldn't matter really where we put it
19:32 < kanzure> and frankly I'm not sure filebin and crapshoot will have better speeds than the local university
19:33 < fenn> btw if you like welding, you'll love casting :)
19:35 < ybit> i just started reading a book on casting today
19:35 < genehacker> I got to take over 100 measurements of hardness on two welded bits of metal today 
19:37 < fenn> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/unsorted/ybit.tgz
19:37 < ybit> gracias
19:37 < kanzure> maybe you should rename that file?
19:37 < fenn> the bandsaw file was screwed up apparently, but it's not a big deal anyway since apparently the design wasn't all that good
19:38 < fenn> vince gingery already yelled at me once for hosting files
19:39 < kanzure> "IronPython is ".NET-native" -- so it will be preferable if you want to fully integrate your Python code with .NET all the way; Python.NET works with Classic Python, so it lets you keep your Python code's "arm's length" away from .NET proper. (Note that with this code you can actually use extensions written for CPython from your IronPython code, so that's not a discriminating condition any more).
19:40 < kanzure> hehe
19:42 < kanzure> why does pythonnet build python.exe?
19:43 < ybit> http://www.millerwelds.com/interests/projects/ideagallery/download/966792622/ guessing that's a torch welder, these tanks are cheap
19:44 < ybit> valley air (the place where i got the rods today) carries medical gases for a cheap price, this news made me happy
19:44 < fenn> can anyone buy medical gases?
19:46 < ybit> co2 was about $25 for so many lbs which i forget atm, but it seemed very cheap and that indeed he was willing to sale it to me
19:46 < ybit> -what
19:46 < ybit> that*
19:47 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: you were right on the price, 10lbs for $26 (that's with tax)
19:47 < fenn> well CO2 is hardly a "medical gas"
19:47 < ybit> though it has medical applications :)
19:48 < fenn> it's strongly hallucinogenic, you better believe it
19:48 < ybit> oh boy, don't tell this to the teenies
19:48 < fenn> heheh
19:48 < fenn> it will never catch on because you feel like you're dying (also it has to be mixed with oxygen or you really will die)
19:49 < fenn> google 'carboxy'
19:49  * ybit usually wikipedia's if the subject being searched is known
19:49 < fenn> ok apparently that wasn't the right keyword
19:50 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carboxy
19:50 < fenn> no, this is a mix of CO2 and O2
19:51 < ybit> this was one of the first acids i studied in some chem clas
19:51 < ybit> ah, i see
19:51 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbogen
19:52 < ybit> Carbogen was once used in psychology and psychedelic psychotherapy to determine how a patient would react to an altered state of consciousness or to a sensation of loss of control.[4] 
19:53 < ybit> i react terribly in this scenario
19:53 < ybit> well, i get used to it though i don't like it
19:53 < fenn> maybe you should go skydiving instead
19:53 < ybit> that i wouldn't mind
19:53 < ybit> minus the fee which could be used more wisely
19:56 < ybit> fenn, didn't you say you were going to upload 5-7 + Metal Cutting Bandsaw.pdf? :)
19:56 < ybit> o.O Build a Coil Winding Machine.pdf
19:56 < ybit> so cool
19:56 < fenn> did I? well ok..
19:56 < fenn> Bandsaw is messed up btw
19:57 < ybit> yeah you did and you said there would be a special surprise which i wouldn't expect (Build a Coil Winding Machine.pdf
19:59  * ybit wonders how one would go into business for him/herself
19:59 < ybit> in metal casting
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20:00 < ybit> the editor(s) in the book from today said there was enough money to be made for paying the bills and some
20:01  * ybit wonders if some diyers would like custom fabricated microfluidics devices to toy around with
20:01  * ybit wants to work for himself or possibly with friends
20:02 < ybit> any38051773: you mentioning that you mostly use 1/8 rods awhile back helped me today
20:05 < genehacker> well of course we do ybit
20:06 < ybit> not necessarily always the case, most people prefer not to be bothered with running their own business, it's a little time consuming
20:09 < fenn> ybit ETA 2 hours, will be at ybit2.tgz
20:09 < genehacker> so do you have a microfluidics machine that I can download plans for?
20:11 < ybit> i have a photlith + other machines, you provide the design, i can fabricate the device
20:12 < genehacker> you have a photolithography machine?
20:12 < genehacker> where'd you get it?
20:13 < genehacker> do you have borosilicate plates? and a machine for fusing them together?
20:13 < fenn> i have a self replicating nanoassembler, just send the designs and i'll get right on it
20:15 < genehacker> what file format?
20:15 < genehacker> will .pdb work?
20:16 < genehacker> got a frictionless bearing I'd like to test
20:16 < fenn> STEP-XML plz
20:16 < genehacker> ok
20:16 < fenn> oops i mean STEP-NC-XML
20:17  * fenn guesses the humor is lost on everyone
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20:17 < genehacker> so ybit do you have borosilicate plates or not?
20:18 < genehacker> and can you do greyscale lithography?
20:21 < genehacker> all I care about is borosilicate
20:28 < ybit> huh, seems i'll be doing some castin in about two weeks since we have those capabilities at the junkyard, w00t
20:29 < ybit> sorry, genehacker, was on the phone.. not sure if we have borosilicate glass or not, will check tomorrow
20:30 < ybit> i'm 90% certain we can do grayscale lith 
20:31 < ybit> black and white, sure, grayscale, i'm a hesitant to say for sure
20:31 < ybit> -a
20:32 < ybit> fenn: humor wasn't lost :)
20:32 < fenn> ybit: step-nc is supposed to be able to run any kind of machine tool
20:33 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STEP-NC that i didn't know about
20:34 < genehacker> so what are you using for masks?
20:34 < genehacker> if you are using masks then this may not work out
20:35 < genehacker> the cost may end up being prohibitive
20:35 < fenn> ybit before you go off making lots of patterns and kneading sand, take a look at http://buildyouridea.com/foundry/lost_foam_howto/lost_foam_howto.html and uh, not fennetic.net
20:37 < kanzure> http://wine-doors.org/
20:37 < kanzure> nevermind
20:37  * any38051773 tries pouring copper into a cast of a pcb
20:37 < ybit> genehacker: it's a plastic transparency film
20:38 < genehacker> uh...
20:38 < genehacker> are you using any optics
20:38 < ybit> yeah
20:38 < genehacker> to reduce it?
20:38 < genehacker> and do you align the film?
20:38 < ybit> yes
20:38 < ybit> don't know
20:39 < ybit> haven't used it
20:39 < ybit> let me get back with you tomorrow when i'm not mostly using my male intuition which tends to get me in trouble :)
20:39 < genehacker> well if you can etch borosilicate it might be useful
20:40 < genehacker> might make an NPPOC-Cl production reactor
20:40 -!- any38051773 is now known as katsmeow
20:40 < ybit> prr
20:41  * fenn covers his eyes
20:41 < katsmeow> heh
20:41 < ybit> :P
20:41 < ybit> nice link fenn
20:42 < ybit> we have quite a bit of aluminum to work with, my dad was saying something purifying the alluminum, the more pure, the higher you can charge
20:43 < ybit> din't quite catch it all, my mind was wondering
20:43 < ybit> he knows quite a bit about this kind of stuff
20:44 < ybit> katsmeow: do you have the plans for your boat already?
20:44 < katsmeow> prolly good histrength scrap from "used" rocket engines up there?
20:44 < katsmeow> the plans?
20:44 < ybit> we have tons of scrap, whatcha need?
20:44 < katsmeow> nono,, you need scrap aluminum
20:45 < katsmeow> i thinked
20:45 < ybit> oh yeah, that's what i'll be starting with
20:45  * katsmeow ponders dinner
20:45 < genehacker> casting?
20:45 < ybit> may i suggest friskies fine cuts tuna in sauce?
20:46 < genehacker> you know you can calculate solidification time with Chvorinov's rule?
20:46 < ybit> genehacker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casting
20:46 < ybit> okay, just making sure
20:46 < genehacker> I'm learning about casting
20:46  * katsmeow wipes up the drool
20:46 < ybit> :P
20:47 < ybit> genehacker: in the intro to manufacturing class?
20:47 < genehacker> yup
20:47  * ybit is jealous
20:48 < ybit> mostly that you have a book that i don't have ;)
20:48 < ybit> feel free to send it my way when the class is over
20:49 < fenn> <- not impressed by dead dudes' names
20:52 < fenn> "The mold constant B depends on the properties of the metal, such as density, heat capacity, heat of fusion and superheat, and the mold, such as initial temperature, density, thermal conductivity, heat capacity and wall thickness." none of which we're going to tell you how to actually calculate
20:52 < genehacker> NO I WILL NOT GIVE YOU MY BOOK
20:53 < genehacker> it's large and massy
20:53 < fenn> i don't want your dead matter anyway
20:53 < fenn> how the hell do you pronounce "chvorinov"?
20:54 < ybit> Phreedom ?
20:54 < genehacker> ch vor i nov
20:55 < ybit> works for me
20:55 < genehacker> t_s=C(V/A)^2
20:55 < genehacker> is the rule
20:55 < genehacker> V= volume of the casting
20:55 < genehacker> A=exposed surface area
20:55 < genehacker> C is a constant
20:56 < genehacker> just wiki it
21:05 < fenn> yar. so as i was saying earlier about casting, i wrote up some crap here http://fennetic.net/machines/lostfoam
21:05 < ybit> 20:51 < fenn> "The mold constant B depends on the properties of the metal, such as density, heat capacity, heat of fusion and superheat, and the mold, such as initial  temperature, density, thermal conductivity, heat capacity and wall thickness." was from the wiki entry
21:05 < fenn> genehacker: it's the "just a constant" part that bugs me
21:06 < fenn> what good is calculating something if it varies unpredictably?
21:08  * fenn goes to bed
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21:34 < bkero> ybit: ?
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21:58 < ybit> bkero: i was asking for welding project suggestions
21:59 < bkero> You awnt a project to practice welding?
21:59 < katsmeow> weld up a better wheeled cart for your new welder ;-)
22:01 < ybit> katsmeow: that's already on the list :)
22:02 < ybit> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/cart/cart.html and there are some on miller's site
22:02 < ybit> http://www.millerwelds.com/interests/projects/ideagallery/in-the-shop/
22:02 < katsmeow> guy tried to sellme one when i bought mine, i looked at him like he was nuts,, "i just bought atool to make one, why would i uy one?"
22:02 < ybit> bkero: yes
22:04 < bkero> ybit: electric bicycle :)
22:04 < bkero> Battery racks for an electric vehicle
22:04 < bkero> scultpures
22:04 < bkero> a rollcage for a car
22:04 < bkero> coat rack
22:04 < bkero> a jig for making something
22:05 < bkero> Weld yourself a bed frame or make a throne out of a shopping cart.
22:05 < bkero> Take a stop sign out of it's post and weld it onto somebody's hood.
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22:13 < ybit> i like that last idea :)
22:16 < ybit> i considered an electric bicycycle, but i usually just hop in the car.. so parts for my electric automobile would be more likely built
22:17 < ybit> 19:27 < ybit> by the time the general workbench, welding workbench, and welder cart are built, maybe tim will have documents available on his machine
22:17 < ybit> still stands
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22:29 < genehacker> speaking of electric bikes
22:29 < bkero> Electric cars do need battery racks
22:29 < bkero> and they're often the toughest part
22:30 < genehacker> I need a way to get from point A to point B(distance: ???) in less than 10 minutes
22:30 < genehacker> distance= <0.5 miles
22:30 < bkero> Standard bicycle is easiest
22:31 < bkero> and can easily do that
22:31 < genehacker> bicycles need to be locked up
22:31 < bkero> so lock it up?
22:31 < genehacker> this takes time
22:31 < bkero> Locking up a bicycle will take under 30 seconds
22:32 < genehacker> I have to secure both wheels
22:32 < bkero> Is theft a problem on your campus?
22:32 < genehacker> I think so
22:32 < bkero> Even with locking it up a bicycle is easily the fastest and most accessible
22:33 < bkero> It takes less time to lock up a bike than it does to walk to your destination from a parking lot.
22:33 < genehacker> I'm considering powerskates
22:34 < bkero> and carrying them into class with you?
22:34 < genehacker> why not?
22:34 < bkero> Because I'd rather not carry wet muddy skates into class with me
22:34 < bkero> and my bag is 3lb 2oz
22:34 < bkero> The skates would be quadrouple that
22:34 < genehacker> mud isn't a problem where I am
22:34 < bkero> It never rains where you are?
22:35 < genehacker> nope almost every surface is concrete
22:35 < bkero> Even with concrete, mud will still come from somewhere
22:35 < genehacker> plus I just want some way to get around besides walking
22:35 < bkero> Seems much more inconveient than a bike
22:36 < genehacker> point taken
22:36 < bkero> Motorized skateboard, scooter, bicycle, jetpack
22:37 < genehacker> I tried the scooter option
22:37 < genehacker> it was impractical
22:37 < bkero> Scooters are pretty awkawrd
22:37 < bkero> I'd only recommend an oversized one powered by an electic motor
22:37 < bkero> Electric motor
22:37 < genehacker> nearly impossible to ride a scooter with a backpack
22:37 < kanzure> http://jcline.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/jcline/laboratory-robots-tecan/tags/Robotics-0.21/examples/client-pipette4test.yaml?revision=62&view=markup
22:37 < bkero> I have a gas bicycle kit and an electrical bike kit I've pieced together.
22:38 < genehacker> jet packs are impractical because of fuel requirements
22:39 < genehacker> perhaps I could make a magnetic harpoon and latch onto cars and use that to pull me a long 
22:39 < genehacker> just like in snowcrash
22:39 < genehacker> oh wait
22:40 < genehacker> not enough cars going where I want to go
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23:02 < ybit> i think this is what i should build: http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200411/04/images/1103_D05.jpg
23:03 < ybit> http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200411/04/images/1103_D05.jpg
23:04 < genehacker> do you have a humongous injection molding machine?
23:05 < ybit> or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Ijsfg4tx4
23:06 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk
23:08 < kanzure> xmidtd2py.py is neat.
23:23 < QuantumG> http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~steve/markham.pdf