--- Day changed Sun Sep 13 2009
00:08 < CIA-32> skdb: kanzure * r 56651f8 /import_tools/surf.py: o hai. just some stl2cad code. dont use it.
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00:49  * kanzure considers using python-cluster
00:49 < kanzure> wget http://sourceforge.net/projects/python-cluster/files/python-cluster/1.1.1b3/cluster-1.1.1b3.linux-i686.tar.gz/download
00:49 < kanzure> oh scipy already implements that
00:51 < kanzure> http://hackmap.blogspot.com/2007/09/k-means-clustering-in-scipy.html
01:01 < genehacker> http://hci.stanford.edu/winograd/shrdlu/
01:02 < katsmeow-afk> they still working on shrdlu ?
01:04 < katsmeow-afk> it's amasing that so long ago they had a code base that could answer questions like that, and no one has done better since?
01:06 < genehacker> strange
01:11 < katsmeow-afk> i do recall in the early 80's a computer program in Fla decided a dictator of a small country was a lot like a strict male parent of a human family,, and a couple years later, all data about it disappeared
01:14 < genehacker> huh?
01:15 < genehacker> I recall seeing a picture of a tiny submarine in a bloodvessel, it didn't work but I can'
01:15 < genehacker> t find any documentation of it today
01:16 < katsmeow-afk> huh?
01:16 < genehacker> definately sounds cool
01:16 < genehacker> though
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05:53 < kanzure> black out :(
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09:12 < kanzure> http://cadcamcae.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Outbound&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.linuxcnc.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Femcinfo.pl%3FList_Of_CAM_References
09:12 < kanzure> http://cadcamcae.wikia.com/wiki/CallToAction
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10:21 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.freebookspot.in/Books-Changeable%20and%20Reconfigurable%20Manufacturing%20Systems%20(Springer%20Series%20in%20Advanced%20Manufacturing).htm
10:32 < kanzure> neat I found an IGES/VTK viewer built with OCC
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11:33 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/urls.txt
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11:34 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/urls.txt
11:36 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/employees
11:36 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/machines
11:36 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/paths
11:45 < fenn> Nizhny Novgorod region
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11:55 < fenn_adl> i suppose i should fetch those papers on the linuxcnc wiki while i have paywall access
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12:29 < fenn> is there a preferred way to access a paper in the form of "doi:10.1016/S0010-4485(97)00033-X" besides just constructing the url?
12:34 < fenn> "Lee et al." sure writes a lot of papers
12:35 < kanzure> fear the security? http://projects.opencascade.org//cgi-bin/secureippop/foo.txt
12:35 < kanzure> fenn: there's a doi resolver out there
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12:40 < fenn> you'd think someone would publish the sequal to "simulation of linearly moving tools" ("simulation of circularly moving tools") in the same journal, but no..
12:40 < fenn> it's in some other journal i don't have access to
12:41 < fenn> IEEE bastards
13:07 < fenn> can anyone give a simple 1 sentence explanation what a convolution is?
13:08 < kanzure> http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:7y5earZ8-_kJ:lwn.net/1999/1209/bigpage.php3+matra+datavision+cvs&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=iceweasel-a
13:08 < kanzure> $75 million for Cascade development?
13:09 < kanzure> fenn: adl.serveftp.org has ieee access
13:09 < fenn> apparently not
13:09 < kanzure> if not then me.utexas.edu will have access 
13:10 < fenn> uh. not sure what you mean by that
13:10 < fenn> can you get some papers for me?
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13:10 < kanzure> yes
13:10 < fenn> Maeng et al. (2004) "A fast NC simulation method for circularly moving tools in the Z-map environment", IEEE Proceedings of the Geometric Modeling and Processing 2004 (GMP’04)
13:10 < kanzure> the ieee link would be nice
13:11 < kanzure> oh man. ancient: http://web.archive.org/web/19961231061423/http://www.matra-datavision.com/
13:12 < fenn> well i suppose that's where i'm going wrong (the link) is this it? http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=977773
13:13 < kanzure> no
13:13 < kanzure> ieee xplore is probably hosting it
13:13 < fenn> also this one, which had a preprint online but links seems to be dead: Dragomatz and Mann, "A Classified Bibliography of Literture on NC Tool Path Generation", CAD 29(3), 1997
13:13 < kanzure> .. somewhere
13:15 < fenn> does UT not have IEEE Xplore subscription?
13:21 < fenn> aha.. this animated gif demonstrates convolution pretty well http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Convolution.html
13:23 < kanzure> fenn: ut does, but it is sometimes not accessible through ezproxy
13:23 < fenn> i'm not using ezproxy
13:23 < kanzure> and sometimes me.utexas.edu has more access than students
13:23 < fenn> i'm using minsky
13:23 < kanzure> me.utexas.edu has more access than adl.serveftp.org
13:23 < fenn> i don't have access to me.utexas.edu?
13:23 < kanzure> right
13:24 < kanzure> guess I could log in for you if you want
13:24 < fenn> it's not a big deal, i'm just annoyed on principle
13:25 < fenn> wow finally i know how "gaussian blur" works
13:35 < drazak> kanzure: could you setup an ssh-proxy between me.utexas.edu and adl.serveftp.org? ssh -D8084 kanzure@me.utexas.edu
13:43  * fenn reads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_context-free_grammar
13:43 < fenn> somehow i got here from deconvolution
13:44 < fenn> (expectation maximization algorithms)
13:50 < fenn> it's really amazing how much statistics they never bothered to even mention in statistics class
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15:16 < kanzure> OCC 6.2 build fixes and patches http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~kraftche/OCC/patches.html
15:32 < fenn> hey ybit wanna weld me up one of these? http://www.tflex.com/design/examples/exsa3_big.jpg
15:32 < fenn> also you will want to anneal it for a few days afterward
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15:57 < genehacker> blackout?
15:58 < genehacker> power blackout?
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16:15 < genehacker> So what's wrong with this statement:
16:16 < genehacker> There are, however, a number of reasons for thinking that Blue Brain will not succeed, at least not in reproducing all of the brain's myriad faculties. One of these concerns what some scientists regard to be an inherent limitation of digital computers. In 1931, Austrian mathematician Kurt Gödel showed that complex mathematical systems contain statements that cannot be proved within the formalism of mathematics, even tho
16:17 < genehacker> uh-oh
16:19 < genehacker> article goes weird after this and is in dallas morning news
16:19 < genehacker> nvm no big deal
16:30 < fenn> godel is just about proving self consistency, which isn't strictly necessary for most things
16:31 < genehacker> also there was a proof that showed neural networks can be taken as turing machines
16:31 < genehacker> http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-cartlidge_13edi.State.Edition1.2fd8da9.html
16:31 < genehacker> from this article here
16:39 < ybit> thanks for http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~kraftche/OCC/patches.html kanzure 
16:40 < ybit> grr, no hilighted messages.. didn't see your message fenn, or i would have the machine on the spot ;)
16:41 < ybit> s/have/weld
17:03 < kanzure> "The stack can be smashed. Alexander Yurchenko <grange@rt.mipt.ru> wrote a
17:03 < kanzure> proof of concept exploit for OpenBSD to demonstrate that arbitrary code could
17:03 < kanzure> be executed through ".htaccess" files.
17:03 < kanzure> "
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17:27 < kanzure> http://nonifier.ovh.org/bezier/surface_bezier.gif
17:28 < katsmeow-afk> [offtopic] On http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/directron_2069_41921581
17:28 < katsmeow-afk> My pci slots on the motherboard don't have two keys like that card has slots. Mine are only one key. Is this a new pinout, or did they eliminate a set of pins on the edge connector for reasons of their own, and this will still work in my computers?
17:31 < kanzure> query: opencascade %7E
17:31 < kanzure> result: fenn.freeshell.org/bookmarks-09-20-08.adr
17:31 < drazak> if it fits, and your computer posts, then it probably works
17:31 < kanzure> get out of my search results >:(
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17:32 < QuantumG> kanzure: http://www.philosophy.ox.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/3853/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf  got that one?
17:32 < drazak> kanzure: is pyscholar working?
17:32 < kanzure> no, it isn't
17:32 < kanzure> QuantumG: somewhere. you want?
17:32 < kanzure> is that the bostrom roadmap with anders?
17:32 < QuantumG> nah, its all there
17:33 < QuantumG> yep
17:33 < QuantumG> any good?
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17:33 < kanzure> I only glanced at it
17:33 < kanzure> I thought it would be shit because bostrom was involved
17:34 < kanzure> but it actually looked like it had a chance
17:38 < QuantumG> Every time I hear Kurzweil talk he mentions all this great "brain scanning" research that is going on, then provides no references.  One particular thing he says a lot is functional decomposition of the brain and how non-biologically plausible emulation of those functional centers can reduce the computational requirements of whole brain emulation.  Yet I've seen no research on *that*.
17:38  * katsmeow-afk wrote off Kurzweil as not doing anything new, he merely does a news feed on his site now
17:39 < kanzure> what happened was that sometime in 2000 kurzweil read a few mailing lists and documented everyone's work
17:39 < kanzure> if you read through the references in his books, they are basically all of the usual suspects that are still on the mailing lists
17:39  * katsmeow-afk nods
17:39 < genehacker> hehehe I think you forgot the he wrote a book part
17:39 < kanzure> not really
17:39 < kanzure> copy-pasta
17:39 < QuantumG> I wrote him off around the time he started a hedge fund :)
17:39 < genehacker> I think only one place is doing brain scanning and that would be that aggies
17:40 < QuantumG> and now a "university" that is more like a church.
17:40 < genehacker> THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH OF SAUNT KURZWEIL
17:41 < fenn> the latest in agricultural technology: http://englishrussia.com/?p=2033
17:42 < genehacker> sigh
17:42 < genehacker> people are cheaper than robots
17:42 < genehacker> I can't wait till the opposite is true
17:45 < fenn> whoare "the usual suspects" re: kurzweil sources
17:45 < fenn> s/whoare/who are/ (no pun intended)
17:49 < genehacker> who are kurzweil's mysterious hidden sources?
17:51 < kanzure> http://pdesinc.aticorp.org/whatsnew/recprac209v1a.pdf <-- ap209 recommended practices
17:51 < fenn> context please
17:52 < kanzure> fenn: eli, eugene, anders, lee corbin, damien broderick, ..
17:52 < kanzure> ap209 is stpe
17:52 < kanzure> *step
17:52 < fenn> oh
17:53 < fenn> ... and what am i supposed to do with this file?
17:53 < kanzure> nothing since you already have a step importer
17:53 < fenn> ok just checking
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17:54 < kanzure> guhr? http://opencascade.com//ex/att/92_Fan.brep
17:55 < fenn> that's not what i expected a .brep to look like
17:57 < fenn> actually OCC doesn't do AP209
17:57 < fenn> 209 is product data (like skdb metadata sorta)
17:59 < fenn> maybe this is worth reading after all
18:00 < fenn> it does seem sort of haphazard
18:02 < fenn> for instance "product category" can be "assembly", "cast", "machined", "linear_static_analysis"
18:05 < genehacker> kanzure can heekscad read .stl?
18:06 < fenn> yes
18:06 < genehacker> sweet
18:06 < fenn> i bet it is slow for complex models though
18:07 < genehacker> that's ok
18:07 < genehacker> I just need to see a general shape
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19:47 < ybit> _only_ 100k for a car crusher
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19:53 < ybit> according to howstuffworks, $30k for an older model
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19:58 < ybit> anyone familiar with these processes of recyclying vehicles?
20:04 < katsmeow-afk> barely
20:04 < katsmeow-afk> what part?
20:06 < katsmeow-afk> car crusher: 8ft x 16ft 2 inch plate steel , apply repeatedly from altitude until the vehicle has assumed the requisite dimensions
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20:07 < katsmeow-afk> some cut the frame the engine sits on, selling the engine and tranny to a reseller, some cut the rear spring shackels to resell the diferential if a rear wheel drive
20:08 < katsmeow-afk> if the doors are in high demand, either cut the hinges, or unbolt them
20:08 < katsmeow-afk> remove anyting else needed, a la chop shop
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20:09 < katsmeow-afk> cause whatever is left to assume the smallest size convienent for shipping to a place which will drop it into a big chipper (like a log chipper, only heaver), or a gawdawefull compressor
20:09 < katsmeow-afk> as opposed to a normal affordable compressor
20:10 < katsmeow-afk> gas tanks must be removed, they have been known to explode at inconvienent times during the recycling
20:11 < katsmeow-afk> some metals, like platinum in the convertors, or aluminum pistons, heads, blocks, tranny housings, are usually worth pulling for separate recycling
20:12 < katsmeow-afk> some places put entire engines into aluminum pots and screen out the steel bits when they pour the molten al out
20:13 < katsmeow-afk> if the engine and tranny and differential are removed, the gawdawefull masher will reduce a car or pu truck  to a 2x2x2 block
20:14 < katsmeow-afk> a regular masher is top-down only, making the vehicle more vertically challenged, to short to get into, otherwise same dimensions
20:16 < katsmeow-afk> in poor neighborhoods, steel belted tires are saved, the tires are burned in large fires, the steel belts sold as scrap,, these fires must be cool, not hot, and therefore massively smokey, else the steel will oxidize away in the fire
20:18 < katsmeow-afk> for the olde C2, C3, C4, FMX, etc big trannies, a lot of people will stand them up onthebell housing,and whack the output shaft with a sledge hammer or drophammer, busting all the insides out the front end, pouring the tranny fluid into the ground
20:19 < katsmeow-afk> if the wire is yanked from the vehickle to recycle the copper separately, the wire is also put in a fire to burnthe insulation off
20:19 < katsmeow-afk> brass or aluminum radiators or ac coils are salvaged often, and melted down
20:20 < katsmeow-afk> carburators are removed with a sledgehammer and melted
20:20 < katsmeow-afk> it's a dirty and cruel business
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20:22  * katsmeow-afk has witnessed this cruelty :-(..
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20:36 < ybit> http://www.eshield.net/ ...
20:38 < ybit> just thinking of ways to reduce energy costs
20:38 < ybit> heated tile or concrete floors is another
20:38 < ybit> eshield or insulating foam..
20:39 < katsmeow-afk> who are you talking to?
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20:39 < ybit> someone had mentioned heat shields as a way to reduce energy costs
20:39 < ybit> anyone who happends to comment on this babble :P
20:39 < ybit> maybe this should be in #hackerspaces since it's all for building a hackerspace
20:40 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.eshield.net/  is bs, they deal only in radiant heat, and won't deal with convective 
20:40 < katsmeow-afk> use closed cell foamif you can, or high density cotton or fiberglass
20:41 < ybit> alternative to searchirc: http://irc.netsplit.de/
20:41 < katsmeow-afk> insulation can pay for itself, i can heat this room for weeks with no other heat input, keeing it above 72F 24hrs/day , with 2 kerosene lamps on low, or one single burner propane lamp on medium
20:42 < katsmeow-afk> that's when some 24hrperiod don't get above 32 outside
20:42 < ybit> one of the things i've been doing today is figuring out the cost to build such a facility as outlined yesterday
20:42 < katsmeow-afk> what about the "paying forit" part?
20:43 < katsmeow-afk> got $millions ?
20:44 < ybit> the land isn't flat, so we'd have to build it up. that's not a problem, you get concrete companies that need a place to get rid of concrete to come and dump it there, it would probably take 2 years for them to make the land which isn't flat (~12 acres) level with the road
20:44 < ybit> probably looking at initially a $300k profit each year
20:45 < ybit> $200k at the min.
20:45 < katsmeow-afk> who is going to profit by dumping concrete during a housing slump?
20:45 < ybit> no i'm talking about running the junkyard and purifying alluminum, and selling other metals
20:46 < kanzure> selling to who?
20:46 < ybit> kanzure: i have no clue
20:46 < katsmeow-afk> if you keep on top ofit, yeas, but if you hold the metals, and the bottm drops, you find you paid more for the scrap than you can sell the refined metals
20:46 < kanzure> then where is all that profit coming from?
20:46 < kanzure> sorry, I must not understand math
20:46 < ybit> :P
20:47 < katsmeow-afk> and,itis seriously dirty business in all ways, you will meet drunkards, theives, scam artists, etc
20:47 < ybit> this is coming from dad who has worked it for several years 
20:47 < katsmeow-afk> and you are liable for environemntal cleanup
20:48 < katsmeow-afk> people will sell you aluminum cans with dirt in them
20:49 < katsmeow-afk> they'll sell you cars they don't own, with gas tanks full of water,,and you'll pay steel prices for that water and deal with the cops the next day over th stolen car
20:49 < ybit> recently my grandfather became sick, he wasn't running the business like it should be, he was expecting to die or something, i dunno... but it wasn't ran like it should be (see the junkyard right beside for an example of a somewhat better system), anyway, my dad and i are considering re-opening the place, and i want it to become a place for working with metal, rebuilding engines, and eventually doing what i'm doing right now, which is designing and fab
20:50 < ybit> i want it to be a hackerspace where anyone can come in and build whatever the heck they want
20:50 < katsmeow-afk> you'llhear of a massive generator theft, or ac unit theft, and the next day you get al this copper and aluminum, and you'll buy it and keep your mounth shut or they'll burn your business
20:51 < ybit> i don't doubt that
20:51 < ybit> i've heard several stories from my grandfather
20:52 < ybit> he wasn't the cleanest businessman when he started off
20:52 < ybit> anyway, this is only one of several things i've been thinking about
20:53 < katsmeow-afk> k, as long as you know it isn';t glamourous and won't attract decent women,, altho you could prolly pimp hookers there too
20:53 < ybit> lol
20:56 < katsmeow-afk> if you are on a railroad line, yu could prolly scrap railroad cars and engines, lots of metals and heavy equipment there , but you'll need dedicated heavy demolition tools too
20:57 < katsmeow-afk> 1000's hp diesels, 1000's hp electric motors, etc
20:58 < katsmeow-afk> i picked up a couple camshaft drive gears fromone, each *camshaft* gear is 5x the weight , and are bigger than, the *flywheel* on my 350 truck engine
20:59 < kanzure> ybit: fenn and I were planning these modular deconstructable pieces for the warehouse
20:59 < kanzure> i think you shouldn't get yourself rooted down to one location
21:00 < kanzure> to be honest you're not much help being somewhere else
21:00 < kanzure> especially since we all share essentially the same ideas
21:00 < kanzure> no reason to not also share tools and other stuff.
21:00 < ybit> so come here? :)
21:01  * katsmeow-afk pats out the burns on the ybit
21:01 < ybit> :P
21:01 < kanzure> well we should go where the support is
21:01 < kanzure> los angeles was looking like a good target
21:01 < kanzure> but at the moment I'm very confused about the status of that gig
21:02 < kanzure> jata hasn't been online in weeks, so it's unusual
21:02 < ybit> imo, hackerspaces have the potential for being the next big thing in manufacturing.. hackerspaces + skdb
21:02 < kanzure> to be honest I haven't seen a hackerspace doing anything particularly well
21:02 < kanzure> ieee electrical engineers have better electronics workbenches than hackerspaces in most cases
21:02 < katsmeow-afk> but how many where you are will invest in it there, or pay to be part of it, ybit?
21:03 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, tools tend to walk off
21:04 < kanzure> the point that alex lightman was originally trying to make was that there are a number of similar initiatives on the web that kind of need the same backend tools in order to happen
21:04 < kanzure> imho if he is still interested in funding us, I say take it
21:04 < katsmeow-afk> my stepfather would goto a hobby shop for the sole reason to steal tools
21:05 < ybit> not everyone can afford to have large machines at their place, until there's a matter compiler, people will need access to these machines
21:06 < kanzure> I don't think the "access" model works
21:06 < ybit> please explain
21:06 < kanzure> the reason why the philanthropy model works is because it's a protective bubble against civilization's bullshit while we fix it
21:06 < ybit> and what's with you capitlizing your "I's" ;)
21:07 < kanzure> that's a good question
21:07 < kanzure> I can't seem to make up my mind
21:08 < ybit> if someone complains about lower-case, tell them to write a script and be quiet 
21:09 < ybit> when you say access model...?
21:09 < ybit> what are you saying exactly, businesses?
21:09 < ybit> philantrhopy == hackerspaces
21:09 < ybit> i'm guessing
21:09 < kanzure> where you have an allocation model and the livelihood of the overall kernel (the infrastructure, system, etc.) depends on people being happy with the allocation schedule
21:09 < kanzure> when in fact it may be computationally impossible to make them all happy due to how many of them there are
21:09 < ybit> so eliminate the jews already ;)
21:09 < kanzure> it shouldn't be about making them happy, it should be about you doing what you need to do
21:12 < kanzure> meanwhile if you try to do a business on your own, mission integrity can easily be compromised by current civilization bullshit
21:13 < kanzure> maintain coherence of vision.
21:13 < ybit> what's the plan to remove the occ dependencies or at least to bundle everything into a nice package for skdb?
21:14  * ybit wants kanzure to define civilization bullshit or at least give just a few examples
21:15 < katsmeow-afk> civilization bullshit = you can't do that here
21:15 < katsmeow-afk> civilization bullshit = we think you are trying to make robots take over th w orld
21:15 < kanzure> wait, aren't we?
21:15 < katsmeow-afk> civilization bullshit = stock market crashed, there's no money to hack in your space
21:16 < ybit> okay, on the same page
21:16 < kanzure> civilization bullshit means, rent.
21:16 < katsmeow-afk> civilization bullshit = new sewagetreatment plant next door to you
21:16 < ybit> hmm, metacurrency might fix that
21:16 < katsmeow-afk> well, ybit's dad owns that place, no rent
21:17 < kanzure> how about no currency
21:17 < ybit> hey! i have rent...
21:17 < ybit> that they save for me...
21:17 < katsmeow-afk> suuurrree they do
21:17 < ybit> hehe
21:18 < ybit> so i'm told, at least i'm happy with the "allocation schedule" here :P
21:18 < kanzure> until you're not, and then it's too late
21:19 < ybit> *cough*buzzkill*cough* ;)
21:19 < katsmeow-afk> life is a buzz kill
21:19 < ybit> wow, i now know why i take anti-depressants, it's because i hang in here too much :P
21:20 < kanzure> what the fuck man?
21:20 < kanzure> we're kicking ass. (sort of)
21:21 < kanzure> relatively I mean :)
21:21 < katsmeow-afk> can i have some of them?
21:21 < bkero> Bahaha, http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/kotaku/full/~3/CGI7ZZWRZdI/a-post+apocalyptic-marriage-proposal 
21:21 < ybit> they are just tiding me along until adrafanil lands in the mailbox sometime in the next few days
21:22 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: i have about 5 left
21:22 < ybit> they are only 10mg
21:22 < ybit> each
21:23  * katsmeow-afk looks for a source
21:27 < ybit> get on a boath and make some already katsmeow-afk 
21:27 < ybit> boat*
21:27 < bkero> Boats?
21:27 < ybit> bkero: katsmeow-afk is planning on making a hovercraft iirc
21:27 < bkero> Sweet
21:27 < bkero> What powerplant?
21:27 < katsmeow-afk> hover assist, not a normal condition
21:27 < ybit> Phreedom plans on it as well
21:28 < katsmeow-afk> hover is way down the line, i don't plan on launcing th eboat with a hover system in place
21:28 < bkero> I wonder how feasable it would be to get a lot of magnets over my body and levitate myself in a chamber with a gigantic electromagnet on the bottom
21:29 < katsmeow-afk> be aheck of a way to get unbeached at low tide tho
21:29 < drazak> you can do it without magnets on you, if the electromagnet is big enough
21:29 < katsmeow-afk> bkero, great, till you rolled over and the magnets were on the upper side and crushed you
21:30 < ybit> katsmeow-afk has a point
21:30  * ybit wonders how katsmeow-afk is typing away while being afk 
21:30 < ybit> or maybe afk stands for AssFuckingKitties
21:31  * ybit shrugs
21:31 < bkero> Poor kitties :(
21:31 < bkero> Maybe it stands for ask fucking kanzure
21:31 < ybit> ah :)
21:31 < katsmeow-afk> :-/
21:32 < ybit> katmeow has sure been afk a lot lately
21:32 < katsmeow-afk> i am busy elsewhere, sorry if by dropping in i other you
21:32 < katsmeow-afk> bother
21:32 < ybit> bah
21:33 < ybit> we like you katsmeow-afk, even if afk represents an obscene action none of want to imagine
21:33 < ybit> +us
21:34 < ybit> 21:17 < kanzure> how about no currency
21:34 < ybit> like the gift economy i suppose
21:34 < ybit> which iirc works well with metacurrency
21:36 < ybit> 21:13 < kanzure> maintain coherence of vision.
21:36 < ybit> i'm guessing NPOs have a difficulty with that as well
21:37  * ybit is curious what building costs are for a mid-sized plant
21:37 < kanzure> ideally not a gift economy
21:38 < kanzure> planned parenthood and planned civilization hood is a good idea
21:38 < ybit> what materials are needed and how much of it that is
21:38 < kanzure> however, planned parenthood isn't necessary if you're generally working within some assumed bounds
21:38 < kanzure> mid-sized what?
21:39 < ybit> the drawing from yesterday, wondering how much it would costs to build something like that
21:39 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: not sure if it was your or not, but didn't you give me the 1 foot of concrete tip? maybe it was kanzure
21:41 < ybit> getting concrete isn't that big of a deal, i'm mostly curious what these reconfigurable walls are made out of and if i can build them or should i purchase them. and what material should the overall building structure be made from... 
21:41 < kanzure> don't purchase them
21:47 < ybit> kanzure, fenn: what version of debian are you two running, i'm going to make the switch soon enough, compile times are killing my productivity
21:48 < ybit> stable,testing,unstable
21:48 < kanzure> usually I install stable first and upgrade to unstable/experimental
21:49 < ybit> how unstable is debian unstable?
21:50 < kanzure> not very
21:50 < ybit> so just a few problems here and there aren't easily resolved with a little intuition or searching
21:50 < ybit> +that
21:51 < kanzure> not even that
21:51 < kanzure> debian "stable" means "if it crashes I will eat my hat"
21:51 < kanzure> debian experimental and unstable means "you have a good number of nines there"
21:52 < kanzure> and not too many dependency problems
21:52 < kanzure> the one major complaint I have is that they took away my xmms within the past two years
21:52 < kanzure> but you can install that from a private deb
21:52 < kanzure> so it's not too terrible :)
21:53  * ybit doesn't understand "you have a good number of nines there" urbandictionary tells me it's equivalent to a bullet so.. "you have a good number of bullets there" which i interpret as you have a few bullets blasting at you from time to time that you may have to be aware of.. which scares the shit out of me
21:54 < kanzure> no, "nine nines" is usually a metric in uptime/stability
21:54 < ybit> phew, okay
22:02 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-34-238.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:03 < genehacker> speaking of vehicle recycling you guys here about what happened with biodegradable wiring?
22:04 < genehacker> in the EU, they passed a law that said all vehicles had to have biodegradable wiring to make them easier to recycle
22:04 < genehacker> s/wiring/insulation
22:04 < genehacker> proved to be disasterous when the wiring degraded
22:18 < ybit> one thing i'm curious is to how the plastics are removed
22:19 < ybit> that's one thing i don't know about, don't really see us smashing our own cars though, not much to gain by doing that
22:22 < ybit> 7 2009      501
22:22 < ybit> data from the amount of posts, that happens to be the busiest time of the year for the interwebs iirc
22:23 < ybit> right before everyone goes back to school, people tend to do a lot more with online communities
22:23 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@128.62.34.238] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:24 < ybit> and then the rate at which community transactions take place is slowed down.. but i wouldn't say progress isn't being made, it's just less talk and more doing
22:26 < kanzure> unit tests aren't that good of a metric to be honest
22:26 < kanzure> especially in the early stages of a project
22:26 < kanzure> classes change every single commit, it seems
22:27 < kanzure> but over time the testing framework should solidify as we start to see how things are working out
22:27 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-34-238.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
22:29 < genehacker2> what's the surface area of the testing framework?
22:30 < kanzure> I'm sorry, what?
22:30 < genehacker2> nvm
22:30 < kanzure> are you asking how many tests we have?
22:31 < kanzure> =========================================================== 11 failed, 53 passed in 35.02 seconds ===========================================================
22:33 < ybit> http://www.popularmechanics.com/marketing/covers/?fullSize=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.popularmechanics.com%2Fimages%2Fcovers%2F200910.jpg&caption=October%2C 2009 does anyone have access to this
22:34 < genehacker2> no
22:35 < genehacker2> it was a failed attempt at a joke
22:37 < superkuh> ybit: http://rapidshare.com/files/277948930/Popular_Mechanics_2009-10ab.rar (14MB)
22:39 < ybit> thank you superkuh 
22:39 < ybit> http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-328198 photo 9, anyone have a clue what that is?
22:40 < kanzure> motion blur
22:40 < ybit> looks like birds
22:40 < ybit> at an extremely high altitude :P
22:55 < ybit> Popular_Mechanics_2009-10ab.rar is not RAR archive
22:55 < ybit> No files to extract
22:55 < ybit> hmm
22:56 < ybit> ah, silly me
22:59 < kanzure> heekscad just committed some code for sketches, genehacker2
22:59 < kanzure> about two minutes ago
22:59 < kanzure> so it's probably been tested for all of about ten minutes
22:59 < kanzure> (how's that for bleeding edge?)
23:03 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:04 < genehacker2> does anyone know what it's called when you tell a function which function to use?
23:05 < kanzure> a "callback"
23:05 < genehacker2> ok
23:06 < genehacker2> for example I'm trying to write a program where I specify which equation the program uses in calculations
23:07 < kanzure> in python and some other scripted languages, you would do something like this:
23:07 < kanzure> (1) define function1
23:07 < kanzure> (2) define function2
23:07 < kanzure> suppose function1 and function2 do different algorithms
23:07 < kanzure> (3) run the search and pass function1 as the callback (unless you want to use function2) in order to provide whatever's calling the callback with some information about what to do next
23:07 < genehacker2> function1 needs call function 2 and input variables into function 2
23:08 < kanzure> what?
23:08 < kanzure> um that's just a function call
23:08 < genehacker2> but I need to tell function1 which function it needs to call to input variables into
23:09 < kanzure> yep that's a callback then.
23:09 < kanzure> do you have python installed?
23:10 < genehacker2> no
23:10 < ybit> genehacker2: i thought you were using ubuntu at some point?
23:10 < genehacker2> I'm trying to program in something my teachers might understand
23:11 < genehacker2> I'm using winblows at the moment
23:11 < ybit> if they can't understand python, there's a problem with your teacher
23:11 < kanzure> genehacker2: try this, http://pastebin.com/f3ee408ea
23:12 < kanzure> just a quick demo to show you what i am talking about
23:13 < genehacker2> I don't know python
23:13 < kanzure> is it hard to understand
23:15 < genehacker2> http://www.charlesrcook.com/archive/2008/05/27/matlab-uncertainty-analysis.aspx
23:15 < genehacker2> I'm trying to do this
23:15 < genehacker2> except I can't do it like they do it
23:15 < genehacker2> because the matlab on the appserver doesn't have the symbolic math toolkit installed
23:16 < kanzure> i thought symbolic math is the point of matlab
23:17 < genehacker2> matlab does stuff with matrices
23:25 < genehacker2> I think I got an idea of what I need to do