--- Day changed Tue Sep 29 2009 00:07 < genehacker> dang I tried downloading that 00:07 < genehacker> it didn't work 00:08 < genehacker> water droplet litho or something 00:11 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/unsorted_papers/Water-drop%20projector.pdf ? 00:14 < ybit> genehacker: what's the full name of the paper? 00:20 < genehacker> error file not found 00:21 < genehacker> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Microfabrication-and-nanomanufacturing-Pulsed%20water%20drop%20micromachining.pdf 00:22 < genehacker> it's big 00:22 < ybit> genehacker: thank you, geez, i couldn't remember the name of it 00:22 < ybit> was looking for Microfabrication and Nanomanufacturing.pdf 00:23 < ybit> genehacker: http://ybit.ath.cx/unsorted_papers/Microfabrication-and-nanomanufacturing-Pulsed%20water%20drop%20micromachining.pdf 00:23 < genehacker> ERROR 00:23 < genehacker> document is damaged 00:25 < ybit> huh, yeah, similar error for me 00:27 < genehacker> http://books.google.com/books?id=pHGamfN8y8sC&pg=PA250&lpg=PA250&dq=pulsed+water+drop+micromachining&source=bl&ots=YbVqtH1XQq&sig=2snWRA9JAomu5MF-qMar2L8ZU_s&hl=en&ei=65rBSrW9CpGssgP9mOnJAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1 00:27 < genehacker> YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DOING 00:27 < genehacker> download google book ripper 00:28 < ybit> eh? 00:29 < genehacker> google book ripper 00:29 < ybit> that's a limited preview, the entire book is available online 00:29 < genehacker> google book ripper.... 00:29 < ybit> ..for free 00:29 < genehacker> look it up 00:29 < genehacker> out 00:29 < ybit> yeah, but it doesn't grab the entire book if it's limited preview 00:29 < ybit> gn 00:29 < genehacker> it does 00:30 < ybit> http://googlebookdownloader.codeplex.com/ :: features, Partially download any book from Google Books marked as 'Limited preview' 00:30 < ybit> Download any book from Google Books marked as 'Full view' 00:30 < genehacker> oops 00:31 < ybit> it just puts everything you can do on your own in a nice little web-gui 00:46 < fenn> rawr 00:47 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/pie.py? 00:47 < fenn> thank you 00:47 < kanzure> no >:( 00:49 < CIA-32> skdb: kanzure * r b50385d /doc/proposals/pie.py: Pie, Apple, Color, need to reimplement Color- was hoping to do build dependencies with parse trees 01:07 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-38-144.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:28 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-34-131.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:00 < flamoot> http://ansistego.sf.net/Advice-Dog-xoylep.jpg 03:01 < genehacker> ??? 03:05 < AchiestDragon> fenn what i am trying to explain to you is ,, when you machine a block of material as a rule of thumb you should take the spindle power ie like say 500W work out the max cut depth like say the max single pass of the cutter say take 1" square on wood 03:08 < AchiestDragon> the max stress on the machine is equivelent to that ,, so what 1/4hp for 500W thats would be like tring to bend the machine using a crow bar ,, to test the strenth you would need to try to bend the frame out of allignment using a crowbar attached to where the spindle would usualy be 03:09 < AchiestDragon> if the frame flexes more than 1 thou then thats the effect you get when cutting at that rate 03:10 < AchiestDragon> now 1" cube pre second cut rate though ply wood is not that hard ,, but its only the equivelent of a .1" cube cut rate in steel 03:15 < fenn> AchiestDragon: how do i calculate cutting force? 03:15 < AchiestDragon> if you want it to be quick then you need to take as mutch material off in one pass like removeing 1mm on a 30mm by 30mm surface using a 1mm dia cutter is going to be = to a cutter travel distance of 900mm per pass at say 30ipm thats going to take about 2 mins 03:16 < AchiestDragon> cutting force best way to look at it is this way 03:16 < genehacker> cutting force could be empirical 03:16 < fenn> as far as i know there is no direct analytical calculation, but some tables would be good enough 03:16 < fenn> or an approximatino 03:17 < AchiestDragon> take the 1" milling cutter at a depth of 1" (or the max you could use on the machine ) 03:17 < fenn> like k*hardness*cutter cross section/rpm 03:17 < AchiestDragon> take the material you wish to cut from it 03:17 < fenn> (with real numbers for k) 03:17 < AchiestDragon> then make a bar of that material 03:17 < genehacker> hmmm... 03:17 < genehacker> I think my materials processing textbook has the answer 03:18 < AchiestDragon> in order to snap that bar you need to apply x amount of ft lb's 03:18 < fenn> with a given amount of power i can increase force or increase rpm 03:18 < fenn> yes i know what tensile strength is 03:18 < genehacker> ft lbs ugh 03:19 < AchiestDragon> use that ft lb figure as the amount of strain that you should be able to apply to the machine before the machine flexes out of allign more than 1 thou of an inch 03:19 < genehacker> in cutting metal 03:19 < genehacker> you cut chips 03:19 < AchiestDragon> thats assuming you want a worst case of 1 thou accuratly 03:19 < fenn> AchiestDragon: but how do i know what the cutting force is in the first place 03:19 < genehacker> it has to do with chipping 03:19 < fenn> i just pick force and then adjust power to suit? 03:20 < AchiestDragon> the design you are showing me is quite good for a number of reasons , but in some others its verry bad 03:20 < genehacker> http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/sme/mfrg315/machforc1.htm 03:20 < genehacker> google cutting force 03:20 < genehacker> get answer 03:20 < AchiestDragon> for plastics and light materials its fine 03:20 < fenn> also i can get increased accuracy by not trying to do it all in one go (roughing THEN finishing) 03:20 < fenn> the issue is whether it can do roughing at all, right? 03:21 < AchiestDragon> but like any machine you could machine granite blocks on it the critical factor is cutting rate and depth 03:22 < AchiestDragon> utube some of the cnc machines on there ,, theres vids of some machningin v8 engine blocks from solid alunimuim blocks 03:22 < genehacker> remove thinner chips faster 03:22 < AchiestDragon> there fast machines 03:22 < fenn> i would like to see some quantitative analysis of "how fast" 03:22 < AchiestDragon> well 03:22 < fenn> what are the units for describing this? 03:22 < AchiestDragon> simple 03:23 < fenn> 'v8 engine block' tells me nothing 03:23 < AchiestDragon> ipm inches of movment per min 03:23 < fenn> no 03:23 < fenn> that has nothing to do with material removal 03:23 < AchiestDragon> feed rate 03:24 < AchiestDragon> cutter speed /power allong with feed rate gives you that ,, but thats proportional to the amount you take off in one pass of the cutter 03:24 < AchiestDragon> as to speed the main thing is to do with cutter size 03:25 < fenn> i can hook up a 50hp hydraulic motor up to an inkjet printer but it won't make it into a jig borer 03:25 < AchiestDragon> ok so ignore final detailed cuts but machine a dome shape from a solid block theres a lot of material to remove around the dome first correct 03:26 < fenn> god i feel like i'm stuck in the dark ages arguing with a blacksmith about pyramid head screws 03:26 < fenn> "yar she be made of the finest metal, pounded many a time by a loyal servant" 03:27 < genehacker> I should probably dig out my textbook if this keeps up 03:27 < AchiestDragon> if your machine is limited to 1mm per pass of the tool then if its a 300 mm cube block you got to make thousends of passes to get the block to approximate shape 03:27 < fenn> genehacker: that page you linked to almost gives the answer... unfortunately they don't provide real numbers for the conversion constant so it's useless 03:28 < genehacker> try the asm handbook 03:28 < fenn> oh lemme pull that out of my ass 03:29 < genehacker> http://products.asminternational.org/hbk/index.jsp 03:29 < genehacker> sigh 03:29 < fenn> it's free online? 03:29 < genehacker> yeah 03:29 < AchiestDragon> no joke 30ipm it can take 25 mins to just drill out a 10 by 10 grid of holes 10mm apart ,, to mill out a sculptured surface with a 1mm cutter would take 6 to 7 hours a pass 03:29 < genehacker> see machining 03:29 < AchiestDragon> at 300mm deep thats going to take 300 * that 03:29 < genehacker> forces and stresses in machining 03:30 < fenn> it's very slow to load 03:30 < AchiestDragon> the other realy big problem you need to account for that i did not mention yesterday but you can fix 03:31 < fenn> what does "h" stand for in 2.5.1? http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/sme/mfrg315/machforc1.htm 03:31 < AchiestDragon> the frame would need to be made of the same material you are using to make those linear actuators from 03:32 < AchiestDragon> dew to the expantion rates of diferent mettals at the same temp 03:32 < genehacker> not true 03:32 < fenn> yes i agree 03:32 < genehacker> it's possible to compensate for thermal effects 03:32 < genehacker> but it's a good idea 03:32 < fenn> otherwise the bottom of the octahedron grows/shrinks differently which affects the angles 03:32 < AchiestDragon> the frame would need to be made of the same material you are using to make those linear actuators from <<< that compensates for it 03:33 < fenn> however the actuators will be heating/cooling way more than the frame (which is doing nothing) 03:33 < fenn> it's not like a mill which is conductively coupled 03:34 < fenn> for high precision stuffs i am considering a cooling channel inside the screw 03:34 < genehacker> use extension sensors and adaptive control 03:34 < fenn> but that is just dreaming at this point 03:34 < fenn> yeah the NIST hexapod used interferometers down the center 03:34 < fenn> lasers 03:35 < AchiestDragon> well you can cool the drives to ambiant but the whole machine is a diferent phisical size at 0C than it is at 50C ambiant 03:35 < fenn> i this asm thing would be way more useful if it took less than 5 minutes to load each time i clicked on anything 03:36 < AchiestDragon> the problems start to arrise from silly stuff like part of the machine is sat in direct sunlight and the other part not because its by a window on a hot day that can be a 20C diference 03:36 < fenn> oh duh "h w L" is height width length 03:36 < AchiestDragon> then one part of the machine is biger than the other making it out 03:36 < fenn> AchiestDragon: but how much does that affect the final part? 03:37 < fenn> also i want automatic self calibration method 03:38 < fenn> anyway i havent touched this project in years *sigh* 03:39 < AchiestDragon> well if you got one of those actuators a few mill out of level then the piece it makes could look fine but you find that its not quite square where it should be and the edjes are not quite flat theres a bow to it 03:40 < AchiestDragon> by the ammount of error in the displacment of that axis point 03:40 < fenn> yes hence the self calibration 03:41 < fenn> i don't count on getting everything exactly perfect, that's the whole point 03:42 < fenn> aha! finally i get to the actual article on asm handbook and it asks me to log in 03:42 < fenn> contact a representative about subscription options etc 03:43 < fenn> ok so i think i can work something out about rpm vs specific cutting energy vs cutting force from those equations.. only wish they had done it instead of making me do it 03:43 < AchiestDragon> auto calibaration well not easy and not cheap to impliment the worst part to do that is you need to ensure the calibration move to points are calibrated 03:44 < AchiestDragon> and thats about as hard as setting the machine up to be calibrated in the frist place 03:44 < fenn> pff not cheap? all you need is a magnet, a cylinder with centers drilled (any length) and two ball bearings that can be attached to stuff 03:44 < AchiestDragon> you using steel tube 03:45 < fenn> or you could do a variable length ball bar (linear distance sensor instead) 03:45 < fenn> not "move to" 03:46 < AchiestDragon> bended folded flat and bolted ,,, would recommend at least welding it together after its bolted and leveled 03:46 < fenn> NO 03:46 < fenn> the whole point is it comes apart 03:46 < fenn> and it doesn't need to be leveled 03:46 < AchiestDragon> useing gripnuts 03:46 < AchiestDragon> ? 03:46 < fenn> you are thinking "big heavy chunk of iron" 03:46 < fenn> i am thinking "briefcase machine tool" 03:47 < AchiestDragon> yea i know 03:47 < fenn> welding would accomplish nothing but make it hard to take apart 03:47 < fenn> i may have to use a dowel to keep the frame from shifting but we'll see 03:48 < AchiestDragon> think the main issue is down to what cutting spindle you use 03:48 < fenn> even a tapered bolt (what's that called?) would not be too bad 03:48 < fenn> yeah the orange HF laminate trimmer is not up to the job 03:48 < fenn> alternatives depend on the level of infrastructure available to the builder 03:49 < AchiestDragon> you know thoes plastic tent pole joiners 03:49 < fenn> no 03:49 < fenn> just a tube that slips over the tent pole? 03:50 < AchiestDragon> i know you cant use plastics but made from aluminium you make a pole joiner block ( not heavy weight ) that you slot the poles into 03:50 < fenn> ok i see where you're going 03:50 < AchiestDragon> hole in it for a pin so the machine is pinned together 03:51 < fenn> main concern is how to mount the joints to the frame without excessive offset from the vertex 03:51 < AchiestDragon> because bending tube defetes the whole point of using tube as it makes the bend points week like as if it was flat strip 03:51 < fenn> right 03:51 < fenn> the highest compressive stress is in the midpoint of the tube 03:51 < fenn> i'm not so worried about tensile strength 03:52 < fenn> buckling is 03:52 < AchiestDragon> yea 03:53 < fenn> i've thought about this sort of thing plenty for geodesic dome construction 03:53 < fenn> the ideal shape is a revolution of a catenary curve 03:53 < AchiestDragon> for a 500W router and a frame like that , you got to be phisicaly rough in tring this but if you can bend it or flex it by hand then you should need to strenthen the parts that do 03:53 < fenn> like the st. louis arch swept around an axis 03:54 < AchiestDragon> that also includes thowing yourself ontop of it jumping on it 03:54 < AchiestDragon> etc 03:54 < fenn> heh how do i measure this 03:54 < fenn> much rather just hang a weight on it 03:54 < fenn> engineering! 03:54 < fenn> quantitative measurements, can you imagine 03:54 < AchiestDragon> 1 min let me find link 03:55 * fenn still hasn't even started his book 03:55 < AchiestDragon> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Measurement/Dial-Gauges-DTIs 03:56 < fenn> heh thanks 03:57 < AchiestDragon> you mount them where the cutter goes so the tips tuch part of the bed and at angles sutable for the axis you are trying to mesure 03:57 < bkero> I have to OCR a 4.3GB tiff file :/ 03:57 < bkero> Anybody have a badass ocropus setup? 03:57 < kanzure> split her up first 03:58 < bkero> I can't get ocropus to compile on anything except ubuntu :/ 03:58 < fenn> so use ubuntu 03:58 < AchiestDragon> move the machine though that axis and if its right there sould be no change on the dial ,, any change would be an error 03:58 < fenn> sure that's the basis of the ball bar test 03:59 < bkero> fenn: I don't have ubuntu installed on any big iron. Just my media centre for boxee. 03:59 < fenn> so compile on ubuntu, copy libraries to big iron 03:59 < fenn> or run vmware on big iron 03:59 < bkero> vmware isn't suitable for big iron 03:59 < fenn> boo 04:00 < AchiestDragon> yea then put the machine frame under stress and test it again ,, also note any change while applying stress 04:00 < fenn> 4.3GB single file? 04:00 < bkero> Yes 04:00 < fenn> bad hacker 04:00 < bkero> It was an 800MB pdf 04:00 < fenn> any particular reason you can't chop it up? 04:00 < bkero> Scanned, no OCR, so it's just a giant set of pictures sewn together as a PDF 04:00 < bkero> If I chop it up, then tesseract can't use common text analysis between the segments. 04:01 < fenn> chop it up into horizontal strips 04:01 < kanzure> dr. m.j.s leis, the E.U. transhumanism guy, recommended "gregor wolbring" http://www.bioethicsanddisability.org/ to me. he doesn't seem too interesting. 04:01 < bkero> ocropus does that on it's own 04:01 < fenn> hm nevermind i dont know how common text analysis works 04:01 < bkero> THe size isn't the problem, just getting ocropus to work on something not ubuntu is the problem(It doesn't even compile on debian sid) 04:01 < fenn> kanzure: also be sure to checkout http://lamesauce.donothing.org/ it's quite worthless 04:03 < fenn> why should i have to invent badass prosthetic arms? why can't these people do it for themselves? 04:03 < fenn> ffs it's not like they don't have the motivation 04:03 < bkero> Most people can't do things for themselves 04:04 < fenn> i've noticed 04:04 < bkero> "I'm sick, someone else should tell me what's wrong and how to cure me." 04:04 < fenn> but surely out of the 2 million amputees in the US one of them would have made some progress on this front by now 04:05 < genehacker> yup 04:05 < genehacker> one has 04:05 < fenn> 360 million worldwide 04:05 < fenn> dean kamen isn't an amputee btw 04:05 < fenn> in case you were wondering 04:06 < genehacker> built a set of pneumatic legs 04:06 < fenn> <- grew up reading heinlein 04:06 < bkero> Oh mister heinlein 04:06 < genehacker> powered by a scuba cylinder 04:07 < genehacker> problems prosthetics face: 04:07 < genehacker> they have to go through lot's and lot's of cycles 04:07 < genehacker> energy density sucks 04:07 < fenn> whine whine whine 04:07 < genehacker> we don't have any good artificial muscles 04:08 < genehacker> these are the problems 04:08 < fenn> what's wrong with airmuscles? 04:08 < fenn> the problem is good cheap reliable proportional valves 04:08 < genehacker> the hissing 04:08 < fenn> omfg the hissing 04:08 < genehacker> how many cycles can they go through before failing? 04:09 < fenn> > 1 million, according to festo 04:09 < genehacker> annoying air supply requirements 04:09 < genehacker> hmmm.... 04:09 < fenn> i think they would be easier to control with hydraulics in just about every respect, but apparently nobody has tried this? 04:09 < fenn> hydraulic air muscle if that wasn't clear 04:09 < genehacker> I forget the figure, but that is probably enough for a year 04:09 < fenn> 1 year maintenance replacement is not unreasonable 04:09 < genehacker> hmmm... 04:09 < genehacker> yeah 04:10 < kanzure> amputees sometimes have yearly refits 04:10 < kanzure> stumps change, etc. shit happens 04:10 < fenn> this tech apples to fembots/androids/whatever 04:10 < fenn> so it's not just an isolated development 04:11 < fenn> main issue is weight 04:12 < fenn> anyway it doesn't seem so impossible to me, pretty straightforward in fact 04:13 < fenn> people accomodate to their situation - i guess that's the main reason 04:13 < fenn> but hell i want a bionic arm and both my arms work fine 04:18 < genehacker> 2 million cycles per year is fine 04:18 < genehacker> for prosthetics 04:20 < fenn> the weight constraint is more important than reliability 04:20 < genehacker> your arm breaks in the middle of the desert what do you do? 04:20 < fenn> you die of thirst in the middle of the desert what do you do? 04:21 < genehacker> I don't 04:21 * bkero dances the I'm the only person to ever get this OCR shit working on Gentoo dance. 04:21 * fenn gives bkero a golden cookie 04:21 < genehacker> I harvest water from the ground 04:21 < fenn> genehacker: ok so fix your arm 04:21 < fenn> you did remember to bring spare parts right? 04:21 < genehacker> it does that 04:22 < fenn> bkero what are you ocr'ing? 04:23 < bkero> fenn: Biology textbook 04:23 < genehacker> hmmm... 04:23 < genehacker> interesting 04:23 < fenn> aha 04:23 < bkero> kanzure: What's the link for your apache index of textbook PDFs? 04:23 < fenn> http://heybryan.org/books/Biology/ 04:23 < bkero> fenn: The book spine was cut with a razor, and they just scanned the damn pages, with no thought given to being able to highlight/search text. 04:24 < fenn> but the upload is like 1kb/s so i don't know why he even bothers to keep it up 04:24 < bkero> For small things it'd be fine, I was getting 40k up 04:25 < bkero> But I can get faster with the torrent 04:25 < fenn> oh you are uploading 04:25 < fenn> ? 04:25 < bkero> I have the pdf here at home, but I need it at work because that's where my desktop is right now. 04:25 * fenn agrees to not understand 04:26 < bkero> Yarr 8) 04:26 < fenn> how long did it take to set up ocropus? 04:26 < bkero> Two days 04:26 < fenn> bleh 04:27 < bkero> On ubuntu it takes about half an hour 04:27 < fenn> ok good to know 04:27 < bkero> THe instructions are on http://code.google.com/p/ocropus/ 04:27 < bkero> Just the codeblock under "Releases" is all you need to do 04:30 < fenn> i think i can handle that.. is using it more straightforward than tesseract? 04:32 < fenn> i wonder why google books doesn't use hOCR 04:33 < fenn> instead of that awful java crap 04:38 < fenn> festo bionic arm if you haven't seen it yet http://www.festo.com/INetDomino/coorp_sites/en/ffeed49f2394ea43c12572b9006f7032.htm 04:40 < fenn> there's a youtube around here somewhere 05:14 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-34-131.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:22 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:39 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:32 < drazak> I want a bionic arm to do my ocr for me 06:40 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Utopiah, fenn, mage2, flamoot, ybit 06:41 < drazak> does someone have a copy of EAGLE? 06:42 -!- fenn [n=fenn@cpe-72-177-121-73.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:42 -!- ybit [i=ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:43 -!- Utopiah [n=libre@rps7452.ovh.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:56 -!- mage2 [n=mage@66.179.208.36] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:52 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-147-73.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:53 -!- Noahj [n=noah@ip98-182-59-157.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:02 -!- davidnunez [n=davidnun@209-6-203-217.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 08:35 < katsmeow-afk> someone does 08:36 < kanzure> i do but it will take you a decade to get it from me 08:37 < genehacker> what? 08:39 < katsmeow-afk> now 08:42 < fenn> nevar! 08:43 < genehacker> ok 08:44 < katsmeow-afk> i hate it when a food i am eating makes Mt Dew explode in my mouf when i try to drink it 08:46 -!- flamoot [n=root@74.13.31.196] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:48 < fenn> don't drink and dive 08:48 < katsmeow-afk> noted 08:48 < kanzure> flamoot: it's generally a stupid idea to irc as root 08:49 < genehacker> heh 08:55 < fenn> i want to be a gargoyle when i grow up 08:56 < katsmeow-afk> i think http://heybryan.org/books/Electronics/Inverter%20Construction%20Details.pdf is gonna get someone killed 08:56 < katsmeow-afk> despite al the warnings in it that it canbe deadly 08:57 < katsmeow-afk> heh, operating a relay to make 60hz switching 08:57 < katsmeow-afk> at 120v and 100 amps 08:57 < fenn> boo 08:58 < fenn> m 08:58 < fenn> ... 08:58 < kanzure> fail 08:58 < fenn> i changed my mind 08:58 < katsmeow-afk> can you say noisey fireball 08:59 < fenn> i can't imagine what you'd use a DIY 12kW inverter for 08:59 < fenn> not at 60Hz at least 09:00 < katsmeow-afk> i magine the battery pack needed from your local hardware store 09:00 < katsmeow-afk> the book also makes no reference tween dc and peak vs rms of the ac 09:06 < katsmeow-afk> well, the good news is at 1000amp draw, the batteries will last as long as the mechanical 60hz convertor 09:12 < kanzure> fenn: http://www.lugatut.net/ ut linux users' group 09:16 < kanzure> nevermind they suck 09:16 < fenn> mechanical inverter is cute.. brushes are not exactly relays 09:17 < fenn> wonder what a 'free energy motor' is 09:18 < katsmeow-afk> roofing nails as 100 amp contacts? these guys didn't even consider how thin the heads are on those, there is no place on the head of a roofing nail that will support 100amps 09:19 < katsmeow-afk> i bet at 100 amps, the rotor won't get up to 3600 rpm before there's no nail heads left, and the light show should not be looked at without a welding helmet 09:20 < katsmeow-afk> so spin it up first, don helm, apply 100amp load 09:20 < fenn> wow a homemade relay 09:21 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, imagine that relay at 60 pulses/sec 09:21 < fenn> if plan 576 doesn't work there's always 577 578 579 580 to try out 09:21 < katsmeow-afk> conductive plasma arcs on all contacts 09:21 < fenn> if your house hasn't burned down by then that is 09:22 < fenn> "these plans extensively tested 0 times" 09:22 < fenn> maybe i should start selling random schematics on the internet i think just maybe might work 09:22 < katsmeow-afk> 3000amp @ 80vdc shortcircuit = 1/4 megawatt 09:23 < fenn> "build your own free energy jello clock!" 09:23 < fenn> tesla@jelloenergysystems.net 09:24 < katsmeow-afk> "power your house on $2.99 of Radio Shack magnets!" 09:35 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-147-73.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:44 -!- Phreedom_ [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:44 -!- Phreedom [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:56 -!- jonathan__ [n=jonathan@66-90-167-249.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:57 < jonathan__> UT's " 3 Day Startup " looks interesting, anyone have comment? 09:59 < kanzure> i registered 09:59 < kanzure> it turns out someone from our lab is running it 09:59 < kanzure> i felt like an idiot when he reminded me that he sits behind me 09:59 < fenn> except that nobody has ever seen the guy 09:59 < kanzure> maybe he's a ninja 09:59 < fenn> or a ghost pirate 09:59 < kanzure> ninja ghost pirate? 10:00 < fenn> maybe a zombie ninja ghost pirate - it would explain that odd smell 10:03 < kanzure> this would be more useful if it actually gave the prices: http://www.mlanet.org/resources/publish/sc_2010-prices.html 10:08 < fenn> "All journals now for low low price of $20.09!" 10:09 < kanzure> what? 10:09 < fenn> (per article, subject to plus or minus 4% sales tax) 10:09 < fenn> i have no idea, sorry 10:31 < jonathan__> hm. 3 Day Startup is sponsored by vitamin water so how good could it be 10:33 < fenn> better than nothing? 10:35 < jonathan__> lol 10:36 < jonathan__> "If you choose to accept membership, you will be asked to: Sign a Member Service Agreement outlining services you will receive and the quarterly fees you will pay" 10:36 < jonathan__> "Sign paperwork with the Entrepreneur's Foundation of Central Texas with noting the one-time mutually agreed upon equity donation benefitting The University of Texas at Austin" 10:37 < jonathan__> "Equity amount is negotiable and is structured as a donation to the Entrepreneurship Foundation of Central Texas" 10:37 < jonathan__> rule #1 : do not ever give up equity 10:38 < kanzure> link? 10:38 < jonathan__> rule #2: only give up equity if you are metaphorically ready to purposely drop the soap & bend over pick it up. see rule #1 10:38 < jonathan__> http://www.ati.utexas.edu/apply.htm 10:39 < jonathan__> also see the original 3 day startup email: "What's in it for you? An intense weekend and equal equity in the new 10:39 < jonathan__> > company. " 10:39 < kanzure> hm. 10:39 < kanzure> screw the weekend .. i just want to meet with the investors. 10:40 < jonathan__> investors will also love to take your equity 10:44 < jonathan__> luckily, s/w is very low manufaturing cost, so no need for excessive investor capital 10:49 < kanzure> is $10k for a year to feed two programmers "excessive"? 10:51 < AchiestDragon> what ,, 2 programmers for that ,, thats as bad as indian child labour rates 10:51 < fenn> yep 10:51 < fenn> probably about what indian child programmers make 10:52 < AchiestDragon> would be looking at £40k to £60k gbp at least 10:52 < AchiestDragon> each 10:52 < kanzure> sorry we're talking about a startup 10:53 < AchiestDragon> well still ,,, your probablay better getting the software written by contract than full time staff 10:53 < jonathan__> $10k in exchange for what? 10:53 < kanzure> progress 10:53 < jonathan__> sure, they'll give you each $10k for 100% ownership of your IP if they believe the tech has market potential. then guess waht? you only made $10k 10:54 < AchiestDragon> you have extra costs for insurance and would need worker insurance if there employed but not if there on contract 10:54 < jonathan__> your goal should be to self-fund yourself, retain 100% ownership, go to market 10:54 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@w-mob400-128-62-219-140.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:54 < kanzure> jonathan__: if you want to give me more than $10k, please go right ahead 10:54 < fenn> kanzure: please don't sell my idea to sleazeball investors who will just ruin it 10:54 < jonathan__> I said "if they believe the tech has market potential" lol 10:55 < fenn> there are plenty of stupid iphone ideas to go round 10:55 < fenn> apparently that's what they want to hear anyway 10:55 < jonathan__> "market potential" has very specific business defiition = return on investment (ROI) > 300% within ~3-5 yrs tho timeline depends on the field 10:55 < kanzure> fenn: don't worry.. no sleazeball investor wants to talk with me anyway. 10:56 < kanzure> 300% on $10k is only $3 million 10:56 < jonathan__> iphone = easy money; low capital costs, high payout if successful 10:56 < kanzure> no way in hell anyone has made more than $3 million on an iphone app sorry 10:56 < kanzure> i think your numbers are off 10:56 < jonathan__> return on the business, not the product 10:56 < AchiestDragon> well get your idea , make a presentation try to get mock ups of final product and do a presentation to investors to get the money to develop is one way ,,, dont forget to get the investors to sign a NDA first 10:57 < fenn> 300% of 10k is 30k or 40k 10:57 < kanzure> er wait 10:57 < kanzure> why did i say 3 million? 10:57 < fenn> that's 300x 10:57 < kanzure> righto 10:57 < kanzure> well 10:57 < kanzure> so yeah, $40k isn't terrible 10:57 < jonathan__> a business is valued anywhre from 3x to 10x the yearly revenue , again depending on field 10:58 < fenn> 'is valued'? 10:58 < kanzure> what is it with you people and spaces around ,,,,,, your commas 10:58 < jonathan__> "is valued" = "the price at which it might be sold for as a working enterprise" 10:58 < fenn> their markov chain parser can't handle commas as punctuation 10:58 < kanzure> what if we don't want to sell? 10:59 < jonathan__> note dot coms valued at 100000x a zero revenue dont fit that model since they are not "working enterprise" anyway 10:59 < fenn> this is precisely what i was trying to explain toyesterday 10:59 < jonathan__> who cares if you don't want to sell.. they already bought you with the $10k 10:59 < fenn> but apparently there wasn't any valuation being done so it didnt matter 10:59 < jonathan__> don't follow the dot com model... it looks great in new york times that's all 11:00 < fenn> i'm going to go back to my book before i decide to go buy a sniper rifle 11:01 < jonathan__> if they own 100% of you, then they'll just fire you and keep the tech, hire someone else as fast as possible. they own it. 11:01 < AchiestDragon> fenn still think that paint ball gattling gun looks more fun 11:02 -!- jonathan__ [n=jonathan@66-90-167-249.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 11:04 -!- Phreedom_ is now known as Phreedom 11:04 < AchiestDragon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aYAD3mdsOg&feature=related 11:29 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@w-mob400-128-62-219-140.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:30 -!- dira [n=chatzill@de2-as1165.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:45 < katsmeow-afk> M:\news\2009\September\29\Business\The Most Promising Young Co in America.htm 11:45 < katsmeow-afk> Not that they all hailed from Silicon Valley: No. 1-ranked Vextec set up shop in leafy Brentwood, Tenn. 11:45 < katsmeow-afk> Founded by the engineering trio Loren Nasser (age 49), Robert Tryon (50) and Animesh Dey (40), Vextec wields complex algorithms that predict, with scary accuracy, how and when components will fail--even before they're built. 11:46 < katsmeow-afk> In 2000, Vextec snagged a $100,000 Small Business Innovation Research grant from the U.S. Air Force to model the performance of an array of turbine engine components made from titanium aluminide. Since then the company has raised nearly $20 million, mostly through similar grants awarded by various federal agencies. Nasser, Tryon and Dey still own 100% of the company, now with 28 employees. Vextec posted $3 million in sales in 2 11:46 < katsmeow-afk> javascript: void window.open('http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/16/americas-promising-companies-entrepreneurs-promising_slide.html?thisspeed=25000','Forbes.com', 'status=1, scrollbars=1, width=1000, height=800') 12:03 < kanzure> talking with the #python guys isn't terrible 12:08 < kanzure> i like this list: http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/WhosUsingPyparsing 12:08 < kanzure> heh zhpy 12:09 < kanzure> aw they took a screenshot instead of just using unicode :( 12:09 < kanzure> what's the point of unicode if you can't expecti t to reliably not fuck up? 12:10 < kanzure> this one is neat too: http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/WhosUsingPyparsing#freeode_siml 12:12 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@w-mob400-128-62-219-165.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:19 < fenn> what would be the point of a text based screenshot 12:20 < kanzure> well maybe you just have a crappy non-unicode-compliant browser 12:23 < genehacker> would that be a mobile phone? 12:27 < fenn> it's mostly my choice of font i think 12:27 < fenn> bitstream sans or freesans, i forget 12:34 < kanzure> chemical formula parsing with pyparsing: http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/chemicalFormulas.py 12:41 < kanzure> http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/simpleBool.py 12:41 < kanzure> but how does it know which variables to expose? 13:02 < kanzure> ah nevermind it's using eval 13:14 -!- dira [n=chatzill@de2-as1165.alshamil.net.ae] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]"] 13:18 < fenn> civilization in a box http://pastebin.com/m2e93bff9 13:32 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@w-mob400-128-62-219-165.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:23 -!- mason-l [n=x@202.89.188.136] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:25 -!- wrldpc2_ [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:26 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:26 -!- wrldpc2_ is now known as wrldpc2 14:33 < kanzure> dr. miriam's synthetic biology project in germany: http://www.itas.fzk.de/tatup/092/inhalt.htm 14:36 -!- mason-l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:03 -!- dira [n=chatzill@de2-as1165.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:29 -!- dira [n=chatzill@de2-as1165.alshamil.net.ae] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:37 -!- goonie [n=goonie@neuroblastoma.cs.pdx.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:58 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-158-66.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:07 -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:09 -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:06 -!- ybit [i=ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06 -!- ybit [i=ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:12 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:31 -!- nchaimov_ [n=cowtown@c-24-21-45-17.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:33 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-158-66.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:37 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-172-235.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:54 -!- nchaimov [n=cowtown@c-24-21-45-17.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:09 < kanzure> i've spent too many hours today trying to get pyparsing working 19:10 < kanzure> it parses my strings into ["thing1", "and", "thing2"] which is wrong because "and" is supposed to be parsed into a BoolAnd object 19:35 < kanzure> heh 19:35 < kanzure> so, i'm writing this "singularity scavenger hunt" for people who are going to be at the singularity summit next week 19:35 < kanzure> it involves them finding people at the summit 19:36 < kanzure> but the trick is that i know who's going to be there, so i'm making this purposefully hard 19:36 < kanzure> "find someone who is employed at or is a student at MIT who is not employed by the media lab" 19:36 < kanzure> "find someone at least one degree away from RMS or ESR" 19:37 < kanzure> "a cosplayer not in disguise" 19:39 < katsmeow-afk> suck the "and" out before parsing? 19:40 < kanzure> hm i seemed to have fixed that 19:40 < kanzure> i should map vim's :w to automatic version control 19:40 < kanzure> or its entire undo/redo buffer to version control 19:57 < drazak> kanzure: do you know of anygood electronics google groups?or mailing lists? 19:57 * drazak fails at this typing thing 20:06 < kanzure> piclist 20:06 < kanzure> ##electronics also doesn't completely suck 20:07 < katsmeow-afk> that's debateable 20:07 < katsmeow-afk> but i don't feel like it atm 20:15 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-172-235.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:20 < drazak> it sucks 20:20 < drazak> :D 20:20 < drazak> katsmeow-afk: you know I'm 17, right? 20:21 < katsmeow-afk> err, no 20:21 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-34-31.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:21 < katsmeow-afk> you know i'm 53 and female, right? 20:21 < drazak> I figured you were older, and had gathered the female part 20:22 < katsmeow-afk> i don't mind, i can be as fair and helpful to you as you are to me :-) 20:22 < katsmeow-afk> and, you have been 20:22 < drazak> I have o.O 20:22 < drazak> probably about biology shite 20:23 < katsmeow-afk> i am interested in a lot of stuff 20:23 < drazak> I've gathered 20:23 < drazak> I've seen you in other channels 20:23 < katsmeow-afk> even if i am not, i want my bot to be smarter than i am, at least have the data to be potentially smart 20:23 < drazak> definitely defocus, or prior reincarnations 20:23 < drazak> man, lilo was a hoot 20:24 * katsmeow-afk is making up another quicky webpage for #robotics atm 20:24 < drazak> I'm not big into robotics 20:25 < drazak> how much of a bitch is a 16 pin tssop? 20:25 < drazak> I've done other surface mount but no tssops 20:25 < katsmeow-afk> not much, use a very fine soldering iron and .015 solder and you can do it 20:26 < drazak> that's expensive solder 20:26 < drazak> will .032 work? 20:26 < katsmeow-afk> else, if you plan on doing more, use paste and hot air gun 20:26 < katsmeow-afk> or a small oven 20:26 < katsmeow-afk> you may be gobbing on more solder than you want and wiping it off 20:26 < drazak> that's ok 20:26 * katsmeow-afk nods 20:27 < drazak> thats dealable, if I make this board at all 20:27 < drazak> I've done SOIC stuff, dip, some resistors and caps 20:27 < drazak> mostly 1206 20:28 < katsmeow-afk> praps you can get larger parts 20:28 < drazak> nah, doesn't come in anything else 20:28 < drazak> shouldn't be an issue though 20:29 < drazak> it's an AD9835 20:30 < katsmeow-afk> sometimes for this stuff, you can have a board house make up soic or tpfq or etc adaptors, or buy them ready-made 20:31 < drazak> nah, it should be fine 20:41 < wrldpc2> Bryan, are you attending SingSum? 20:57 < kanzure> yes 20:57 < kanzure> i need a place to sleep 20:57 < kanzure> i work for free and don't suck 20:57 < kanzure> do you have a couch? 21:00 < drazak> http://www.iit.edu/~singsum/ this? 21:01 < kanzure> no 21:01 < kanzure> http://singularitysummit.com/ 21:28 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:52 * ybit wants a list of technology or just cool scientific thingies 23:52 < ybit> http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/5-most-innovative-technologies-of-2007 23:53 * ybit wants more than just 5, i want hundreds 23:55 < ybit> i want lists which contain in-vitro meat, meisner effect, particle accelerators, stuff that was discovered or invented the past 140 years or so