--- Day changed Thu Oct 08 2009 00:22 < katsmeow-afk> Search results for intelligence (87 torrents) 00:26 -!- tarbo2 [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:04 < fenn> chatty katty 01:05 < katsmeow-afk> hmm ? 01:05 < katsmeow-afk> he asked 01:05 < katsmeow-afk> and then he went to bed! 01:09 < bkero> Any of you guys use SAGE before? 01:09 < bkero> Sage 01:45 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:48 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:49 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:51 < genehacker> wrong box 01:57 < genehacker> we all know sage goes into email 01:58 < bkero> ? 01:59 < fenn> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SAGE_console.jpeg 01:59 < fenn> i just think that thing looks really nice 01:59 < bkero> Haha awesome 01:59 < bkero> THat it does 01:59 < bkero> The acrylic cased d-shell connector 02:00 < fenn> that's how you know it's a museum piece 02:00 < fenn> otherwise it'd just be a boat anchor 02:16 < genehacker> oh yeah I saw that 02:45 < genehacker> if you ever get a chance visit the computer history museum 02:45 < genehacker> it's on of the essential nerd pilgirmiges 03:45 < bkero> This scares the shit out of me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_airship 04:00 < Phreedom> katsmeow-afk: lots of useful info. thanks :) 04:00 < Phreedom> this probably makes boat living not much better than rv 04:00 < fenn> bkero: it's unfortunate that the military is the first to do it, but all i can say is "it's about damn time" 04:02 < Phreedom> katsmeow-afk: you probably can't expect your small boat to safely cross the ocean too :( 04:02 < bkero> Stephen Hadley, the National Security Advisor formed a new division in 2006, the US HAA Line, which took over operation of airship flights. Airships will now prominently display the American flag on their fins and occasionally tour America to indoctrinate people with music and speeches from the air. 04:03 < fenn> well i havent had a good indoctrination in ten years or so 04:03 < bkero> Actually I just ripped that from 04:03 < bkero> Hermann Göring, the Nazi Air minister, formed a new airline in 1935, the Deutsche Zeppelin-Reederei (DZR), which took over operation of airship flights. Zeppelins would now prominently display the Nazi swastika on their fins and occasionally tour Germany to indoctrinate the people with march music and Nazi propaganda speeches from the air. 04:04 < fenn> aha 04:04 < fenn> so did you find a country to escape to yet? 04:04 < bkero> Nope 04:04 < fenn> i was thinking iceland, brazil, thailand. but then iceland went into the shitter 04:05 < fenn> oh and finland maybe 04:05 < bkero> They're all governed by religious folks, have terrible quality of life/abject poverty, or have draconian property laws. 04:06 < fenn> what does 'draconian propertly laws' mean? 04:06 < bkero> Countries aren't going to let me make a cruise missile if I want to :) 04:06 < fenn> oh.. i dont consider that property law 04:06 < bkero> Also there's also the WIPO/IP thing 04:07 < fenn> i dont consider that property law either ;P 04:07 < bkero> What do you consider property law? 04:07 < fenn> right to own things 04:07 < fenn> non-right to mess with other peoples' things 04:07 < bkero> Also ideally I'd like someplace without an extradition policy with the Unitd States. 04:08 < fenn> not many of those 04:08 < bkero> Nope 04:08 < fenn> mars maybe 04:08 < fenn> http://www.usextraditions.org/ 04:08 < fenn> ok it's not funny 04:09 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties 04:11 < bkero> I see Russia isn't on that list. 04:11 < fenn> i wish all the wikipedia images had some explanation exactly how they made them 04:11 < fenn> maps and graphs etc 04:12 < bkero> China, micronesia 04:12 < bkero> I'm beginning to think there's no place for me. :( 04:13 < fenn> now you know why the idea of seasteading is growing in popularity 04:14 < bkero> Humans are land animals though 04:14 < fenn> actually we are amphibians 04:14 < fenn> hence the downturned nose 04:15 < fenn> babies know how to swim etc 04:15 < bkero> We might be innately amphibious, but that doesn't make us amphibian :P 04:15 < fenn> well, um. do you have the buddha nature? 04:15 < bkero> What do you think? 04:16 < fenn> that wasn't a very zen answer 04:16 < bkero> I laugh at the Buddhists too. 04:17 < fenn> i don't. i think they are probably the least dangerous religion, and as such it can be used as a sort of immunity to greater bullshit 04:17 < bkero> With buddhism you'll come back as a duck. With islam, if you're REALLY good you'll come back as a man. 04:17 < fenn> or maybe i just stole that from snow crash 04:17 < bkero> I do love my snowcrash 04:17 < bkero> and Buddhists are mostly useless 04:18 < fenn> i dont understand 04:18 < bkero> If someone's going to punch you really hard in the face, you just stand behind a buddhist. 04:19 < fenn> maybe i am confusing with taoists, but arent they allowed to fight back if it's the right thing to do? 04:20 < bkero> I've never known one to, but perhaps 04:21 < fenn> “There are two schools. To the south we find Therevada Buddhism opposing any sort of violence because they see suffering as a means to liberate people from their own bad karma. On the other hand, the northern school maintains that a bodhisattva ought to be able to protect others – even if it brings suffering to the attacker." 04:22 < bkero> Seasteading seems a lot easier than researching and terraforming something on Barnard's Star 04:23 < fenn> terraforming is so 1940's 04:23 < fenn> actually bernal had the right idea in 1920 even 04:23 < bkero> Which was that? 04:23 < fenn> custom built space habitats 04:23 < fenn> do you want to live in a cave? 04:23 < fenn> no? then why do you want to live on a planet? 04:24 < bkero> Heh 04:24 < bkero> Because planets have tons of fuel 04:24 < fenn> but you have infinite sunlight in space 04:24 < fenn> infinite beats lots by a lot 04:25 < bkero> MTBF of solar collectors isn't forever :P 04:25 < katsmeow-afk> ther realestate in space is the priciest there is tho 04:25 < fenn> i'm not talking about PV 04:25 < bkero> Background radiation? 04:25 < fenn> solar thermal and other wacky schemes 04:26 < fenn> though i bet in 40 years we'll have the whole PV issue wrapped up 04:26 < bkero> Seems a lot harder than finding some combustables :P 04:26 < fenn> not when you don't have an atmosphere to begin with 04:26 < katsmeow-afk> i bet in 40 yrs the air will be so polluted the pv won't work at sea level 04:26 < fenn> you're thinking about it all wrong 04:27 < fenn> bkero: imagine growing algae on orbit is 100% free lunch. should you use it for rocket fuel? 04:29 * bkero isn't sure he's following 04:29 < bkero> Use what? Compounds in the atmosphere? 04:29 < katsmeow-afk> so if i have a "price FOB" from China, how close does that get the items thru customs and to me here where i live? 04:30 < bkero> You can save a bundle if you go to an economic free trade zone :0 04:30 < katsmeow-afk> i do not know how to do that 04:31 < bkero> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_zone 04:31 < katsmeow-afk> i am not there, where ever it is, to accept delivery, i am here 04:32 < bkero> There are 3000 free trade zones around the world 04:32 < bkero> Otherwise you get to pay whatever your countries trumped up import taxes are 04:33 < katsmeow-afk> but i am here, iam not there 04:33 < bkero> Then you get to pay whatever your countries trumped up import taxes are 04:35 < katsmeow-afk> it's sure to be cheaper than flying there and back to get delivery :-| 04:35 < bkero> There's probably one near where you live. 04:37 < bkero> If you just want one thing from china, you request a demo unit, pay a little extra, and they send it to you without import taxes. If you want to buy a shitload of something you find something already in the country, or you go to a free port. 04:37 < katsmeow-afk> like http://ia.ita.doc.gov/ftzpage/letters/ftzlist.html ? 04:37 < bkero> That's the list I was looking at 04:37 < katsmeow-afk> 80 tapered roller bearings, saves me 30% over buying made-in-usa parts 04:38 < bkero> The scale probably isn't worth the effort then 04:39 < katsmeow-afk> i am not sure i want to go with that however, because none i can find are strong enough, but i cannot find a way to keep a single ball type bearing/sleeve lubed under various loads, and not leak grease/oil 04:39 < bkero> It's mostly to avoid the import, duty, and excise taxes. 04:40 < bkero> When we had to use something like that on the solar challenge car we just used a brake master cylinder and a silicone boot. 04:40 < katsmeow-afk> something like what? 04:44 < katsmeow-afk> i need bigger than this: http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/HR/Kit7381# 04:45 < bkero> That's a curious part 04:45 < bkero> That looks like an axle carrier 04:45 < katsmeow-afk> with a 3 inch ball, i can count on 100,000lbs per coupling, in any direction 04:45 < katsmeow-afk> but the cost gets outrageous 04:46 < katsmeow-afk> and commercially made ones are very limited range of motion 04:46 < bkero> Is this just to keep a big spinning rod in place? 04:46 < katsmeow-afk> no 04:46 < katsmeow-afk> the 3 inch ones are rated 10 degrees side to side, i want +/- 20 at least 04:47 < katsmeow-afk> they don't make the center ball a true ball, it's flatted 04:47 < bkero> Would a CV joint work? 04:47 < katsmeow-afk> so the seals open up whent he "sleeve" passes over the flat 04:47 < fenn> would a truck driveshaft work? 04:48 < fenn> it's basically just a spherical bearing right? 04:48 < bkero> http://www.automotive-technology.co.uk/downloadable%20files/CV%20joint.jpg 04:48 < katsmeow-afk> cv wold have roller bearings rated 5000lbs, 2 for 10,000lbs,, long way from 100klbs 04:48 < katsmeow-afk> driveshaft universal, same problem 04:48 < fenn> um.. universal joint i mean 04:48 < fenn> what about a really big truck 04:49 < fenn> if you lived in bangladesh you could go to the ship breaking yard 04:49 < katsmeow-afk> i calculate 60,000 lbs side force on the side hulls of my boat, average worst case broadside wave 04:49 < katsmeow-afk> two 5000 lb capacity bearings won't make me happy 04:50 < fenn> what does this do again? 04:50 < bkero> Tripod joint? 04:50 < katsmeow-afk> fenn, instead of ridgid ama-hull-ama spars, i use thos ball joints and let the amas float in a controleld manner 04:51 < fenn> what is an ama spar? 04:51 < katsmeow-afk> i have a design i can allow the ama to run 10ft out of position, and not break off 04:52 < katsmeow-afk> umm,, arms holding side hulls to the center hull of a trimaran 04:52 < fenn> ok 04:52 < fenn> can you use a ginormous piece of rope? 04:52 < katsmeow-afk> can't push a rope 04:53 < fenn> a coil of rope 04:53 < katsmeow-afk> specially after wet 04:53 < katsmeow-afk> how willa rope push the ama back out? 04:53 < fenn> i'm thinking of how to practically make a 50 ton flexture 04:53 < genehacker> have you taken into account rogue waves? 04:53 < bkero> Highest CV joint rating I can find is 10.5k 04:53 < katsmeow-afk> gene, yeas 04:53 < genehacker> wow 04:53 < katsmeow-afk> bkero, hence i am not using CV joints 04:53 < fenn> katsmeow-afk: something like a tensegrity 04:54 < bkero> katsmeow-afk: Find something better? 04:54 < katsmeow-afk> gene, i counted on 20ft of a wall of water near vertical slamming into the side at 90 degrees, and not breaking the ama off 04:54 < genehacker> ok 04:54 < katsmeow-afk> bkero, i already did,i gave the url to a smallversion of it 04:55 < fenn> does the spacing have to be exact or can it be a squishy joint? 04:55 < katsmeow-afk> fenn, define spacing 04:55 < genehacker> a flexure joint? 04:55 < fenn> the distance between surfaces the strut holds apart 04:55 < bkero> .ne skeeos 04:56 < katsmeow-afk> fenn, it will be in ocean water 04:56 < katsmeow-afk> stranded wire rope is contraindicated 04:56 < fenn> ok.. how about a tire with two plates bolted/sealed on either side to make a big pneumatic bladder 04:56 < fenn> like an oversized truck air spring 04:57 < fenn> um.. like the constant volume joints on 1950's spacesuits 04:57 < katsmeow-afk> not enough movement without overstressing the rubber 04:58 < fenn> or some other hydraulic bellows thing 04:58 < katsmeow-afk> technically, the usa coastguard has banned the use of tires in water, even as dock bumpers 04:58 < katsmeow-afk> as of last yr 04:58 < fenn> really? 04:58 < katsmeow-afk> really 04:58 < fenn> because of mosquitoes? 04:58 < katsmeow-afk> they leak oils and such as they break down 04:58 < fenn> insane 04:58 < fenn> what about the gigatons of poison they spray on boats 04:59 < katsmeow-afk> i didn't ask 04:59 < katsmeow-afk> some bottom paints are illegal now too 04:59 < genehacker> it's much cheaper to not use tires than to get rid of the gigatons of poison 04:59 < katsmeow-afk> ok, what gigatons of poison? 05:00 < genehacker> I am assuming boat hull paint 05:00 < katsmeow-afk> o 05:01 < katsmeow-afk> yeas,, Califonia is trying to eliminate all toxic boat paints inthe popular big marinas there 05:01 < katsmeow-afk> they are saying the marina silt is a toxic waste dump from paint chips 05:06 < genehacker> hmmm... hope my water doesn't come from a popular marina then(though there are national standards on water quality that dictate the safe amount of heavy metal) 05:07 < katsmeow-afk> even this little one has a strength of 9 tons : http://www.qscomponents.com/34fr.html 05:15 < genehacker> with what safety factor 05:16 < katsmeow-afk> that one? i dunno 05:18 < katsmeow-afk> like i said, if i build for 50tons in the coupling, and it's backed up with a 1 inch thick bulkhead to distribute the load thru the hull plating, i want the coupling pin to break before the hulls are distorted 05:20 < katsmeow-afk> distorted hulls, probably cracked and leaking, will be a pain to fix, but roping the hulls together and making new pins is alot less of a pain 06:08 < fenn> hmm why don't i have a command line japanese dictionary yet 06:09 < kanzure> wordnet? 06:09 < fenn> preferably an actual dictionary 06:09 < kanzure> xjdic 06:10 < fenn> why can't it just use unicode i wonder 06:14 < genehacker> why would you need that? 06:18 < Noahj> Maybe you hate gtk2 06:19 < Noahj> I don't have a unicode terminal at the moment 06:20 < Noahj> I thought I compiled mrxvt with unicode 06:20 < Noahj> But I guess not 06:21 < Noahj> Oh, I think I need to re-do it with ja set 06:21 < Noahj> Huh. 06:21 < Noahj> I think you might be able to use links and Google translate 06:22 < fenn> yah it's called surfraw and died a pathetic death 06:23 < Noahj> ? 06:23 < Noahj> Surfraw looks like some scripts that interface search engines 06:24 < Noahj> Ah, it has babelfish support 06:24 < genehacker> argh, the imperial system of measurements is killing me 06:25 < fenn> anyway google translate is based on massive data mining, not actual human input 06:25 < fenn> so it isn't guaranteed to be even close to correct 06:25 < genehacker> if they datamine enough eventually they'll have something correct 06:31 < Noahj> Eventually's a bit of a wait 06:31 < Noahj> There're CGI interfaces to... er... edict and such 06:32 < Noahj> http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi 06:32 < Noahj> Which maybe you could prod a bit with curl into doing what you want 06:33 < kanzure> edict is in debian 06:33 < kanzure> not by default but it's there 06:34 < Noahj> http://www.vultaire.net/software/jben/jben2.php.en < maybe this is what you want 06:34 < Noahj> It parses kanjidic 06:35 < kanzure> masten space videos: http://qik.com/NGLLC (they apparently won a recent competition?) 06:44 < genehacker> LCROSS impacts the moon on the 9th 07:06 < kanzure> automatono 07:10 < genehacker> still trying to figure out a name? 07:31 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-41-119.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:13 < kanzure> novodex physics 08:16 < kanzure> http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_new.html 08:17 < kanzure> http://gpwiki.org/index.php/Novodex 08:18 < kanzure> http://novodex.com/ seems to go to PhySX 08:18 < kanzure> *PhysX 08:18 < fenn> maybe they got bought out 08:18 < kanzure> http://developer.nvidia.com/object/physx.html 08:18 < kanzure> "NOTE: All binary PhysX SDKs are free for commercial and non-commercial uses*" 08:19 < kanzure> "Source Code access for each SDK is available for a fee of $50,000.00 USD per platform and per game or application for the following platforms:" 08:19 < kanzure> http://developer.nvidia.com/object/physx_downloads.html 08:19 < fenn> i think physX is the "do calculations on the gpu" idea 08:19 < fenn> i'm surprised they didnt say 'call for a quote' 08:20 < kanzure> is $50k below the "call for quote" mark? 08:20 < fenn> no not at all 08:20 < fenn> oddly enough it seems the more expensive things are the easier to find the price 08:20 < fenn> because they arent ashamed of it or something 08:22 < kanzure> http://nxogre.org/ "what the back of your head looks like" 08:23 < kanzure> http://github.com/betajaen/nxogre 08:23 < kanzure> http://static.nxogre.org/releases/bloodymess/NxOgre.1.5.5.BloodyMess.zip 08:24 < kanzure> tarbomb 08:25 < kanzure> i guess i could make a swig wrapper to this if we really wanted one 08:25 < kanzure> but the source code to the sdk is not available ($50k is far from "available") 08:50 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 08:52 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:00 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:24 < kanzure> http://eugen.leitl.org/pirateprogram.txt 09:49 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-51-119.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:55 -!- mason_l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:55 < kanzure> http://teh.entar.net/~nick/mail/eugen-leitl-you-can-fuck-right-off-sir 09:57 -!- strages_ [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:57 -!- mason-l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:58 < kanzure> http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2008-August/044719.html 10:10 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-51-119.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:11 < kanzure> http://twobits.net/ 10:12 < fenn> rawr 10:14 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:14 < kanzure> christopher kelty 10:15 < kanzure> http://twobits.net/pub/Kelty-complete.html.zip 10:15 < fenn> thanks lazyweb 10:52 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-173-242.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:38 < kanzure> bugs in ode? http://floatingorigin.com/python/physics.html 12:39 < kanzure> huh 12:39 < kanzure> aren't unit tests supposed to check for this? 12:43 < fenn> the proper way to submit a bug report is not to write a webpage about it 12:45 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-173-242.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:49 < kanzure> fenn: he sent it as an email to the pyode developers too 12:50 < kanzure> anyone know how to check this out? https://svn.zeitkunst.org/viewvc/MSThesis/trunk/Creature/simulation.py?view=markup 12:50 < kanzure> gasp someone who wrote code for a thesis 12:50 < kanzure> oh but he's from the media lab 13:02 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/pyode-samples.zip 13:02 < kanzure> various collected samples 13:02 < fenn> "college is a waste of time and money" as true today as it was in 1975: http://www.grossmont.edu/bertdill/docs/CollegeWaste.pdf 13:02 < fenn> probably more so 13:02 < kanzure> some of them crash on my laptop but i suspect it's for the same reason that pythonocc crashes 13:04 -!- ekaterina [n=chatzill@207-172-104-170.c3-0.avec-ubr9.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:05 < fenn> hello immunology person 13:06 < ekaterina> miaow... 13:07 < Noahj> Or immunology cat 13:07 < kanzure> that's not a cat noise 13:07 < ekaterina> Hah. 13:07 < ekaterina> It so is.. unless it's a fat cat..then it's Meuf. 13:07 < fenn> i was sort of hoping the other cat would respond 13:08 < kanzure> ekaterina: hi 13:09 < kanzure> what's up? 13:09 < ekaterina> So, I heard this is a group devoted to world domination? 13:10 < fenn> more like world un-domination 13:10 < kanzure> sometimes it's easier to just go build something else 13:11 < ekaterina> Yes, i would have to agree. 13:11 < Noahj> World deposition 13:11 < ekaterina> I don't particularly want dominion over the earth , since there is really nothing to be proud off. 13:11 < kanzure> one idea is to use free and open source hardware for that 13:12 < ekaterina> Maybe we just need to start with a clean slate. 13:12 < kanzure> (otherwise the tech is all hidden and murky) 13:13 < kanzure> it doesn't look like anyone else is going to get us off this rock so we'll have to do that too 13:14 < ekaterina> No, they're not..which is why extending our lifespans is goal Number 1 13:14 < ekaterina> solving the unified theory..and intergalactic travel comes later. 13:14 < fenn> gah why is everyone PM'ing me 13:14 < kanzure> sorry fenn 13:14 < kanzure> was just wondering when i wrote this: http://heybryan.org/notes.html 13:15 < fenn> before 2006 apparently 13:16 < kanzure> huh 13:19 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-173-242.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:20 < fenn> Friedhofszwang == cremation? 13:20 < fenn> why is that filed under "personal freedom"? 13:21 < kanzure> ekaterina: so here's our "evil plan": http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb 13:25 -!- mason_l is now known as mason-l 13:43 < fenn> heh "Partial immortalization" 13:43 < fenn> "i'm not dead yet!" 13:48 < fenn> amazing 13:48 < fenn> "[DNA barcoding techniques] will ultimately crack down on the widespread and growing international trade in bushmeat, a market estimated to be worth as much as $15 billion" 13:49 < fenn> bushmeat is random wild animal meat 13:57 -!- Phreedom [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:00 -!- Phreedom [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:20 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-173-242.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30 -!- flamoot [n=root@74.13.31.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:30 -!- flamoot [n=root@74.13.31.196] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:41 < kanzure> fenn: http://www.humanityplus.org/read/2009/10/2009-h-summit/ 14:52 -!- dira [n=chatzill@de1-as2667.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:52 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/singularity-summit-people 14:53 < fenn> i will send you all personally targeted spam! 14:53 < fenn> pew pew pew 15:20 < fenn> 'blue light hazard' 15:20 < fenn> i ran across it while researching how to fix my busted sleep clock 15:24 < fenn> speaking of which, good night :0 15:30 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:30 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:31 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-173-242.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:52 -!- dira [n=chatzill@de1-as2667.alshamil.net.ae] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]"] 16:13 < kanzure> is anyone going to join fenn and me up at h+ summit? 16:15 < bkero> hmm 16:16 < bkero> Irvine, CA, huh? 16:17 < bkero> kanzure: You're giving a talk, huh? Awesome. 16:17 < kanzure> apparently 16:17 < bkero> Hehe 16:17 < bkero> SKDB :) 16:17 < bkero> Oh damn, $150 16:18 < kanzure> bkero: you know a speaker 16:18 < kanzure> you should be able to get in for free 16:18 < bkero> :) 16:18 < kanzure> in fact, we could say that you're a speaker 16:18 < bkero> Hehe 16:18 < kanzure> you've been with us since the beginning, right? 16:18 < bkero> I have 16:18 < kanzure> so there you go 16:18 < bkero> Heh heh 16:18 < bkero> I'm not sure I can get down to Irvine 16:18 < bkero> December might change the situation 16:35 < drazak> Hm, sunday I think I'll do some PCR and start an elisa incubating 16:36 < drazak> tomorrow I'll isolate RNA and get the conditioned media for the ELISA 17:08 * ybit is game for the h+ summit, looks like a fun time 17:11 < kanzure> ok that's 3 of us 17:11 < ekaterina> well, if enough people attend we can surely have our own secret meeting of doom ... 17:11 < kanzure> we must 17:11 < kanzure> it's a requirement, now 17:11 < ekaterina> only 3...? 17:11 < kanzure> ok, 4 17:12 < ekaterina> I'll bring the err...... 17:12 < ekaterina> nuclear warhead? 17:12 < kanzure> ok, i'll bring the uranium 17:12 < kanzure> what are we holding the world hostage for? 17:13 < ybit> i'll bring my clone-o-matic just in case we need more attending the secret meeting 17:13 < ekaterina> clone-o-matic!!!....i want one of those.. 17:13 < kanzure> ectogenetic chamber plus IVF? or what? 17:13 < ekaterina> really would speed up my photographic storing of information 17:14 < ekaterina> can we kill them all even if they give us what we want? 17:14 < kanzure> no, we have to be nice 17:14 < ekaterina> grrrr 17:14 < ekaterina> :( 17:14 < ekaterina> Fine, the wait will make that eventual day so much sweeter 17:15 < ekaterina> is there going to be some dress code? 17:15 < kanzure> no clothing 17:15 < ekaterina> gah! 17:15 < ekaterina> lol 17:15 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:16 < ekaterina> I'm not sure the focus would be towards the logistics of our plans if that were to happen 17:16 < kanzure> oh, right 17:16 < kanzure> well anyway, the h+ organizers seem to say to wear whatever 17:17 < ekaterina> right...i guess I'll stick to the mini skirt and knee high leather boots then.. 17:17 < ekaterina> lets not forget the whip 17:17 < ekaterina> really throw people off when i open my mouth 17:19 * ybit starts to wonder what this secret meeting is about while kanzure is going nude and ekaterina is dressing like one of my many prostitutes 17:19 < kanzure> wait, wait, what? 17:20 < ybit> is this one of those afk-meetings because i can pass :) 17:20 < kanzure> i guess i have no problems with this 17:20 < ybit> ass-fucking-kanzure, really? 17:20 < kanzure> what? 17:20 < kanzure> where? 17:21 < ybit> in the secret meeting of doom 17:21 < kanzure> the secret meeting of doom is a take-over-the-world meeting 17:21 < ybit> for a sec it sounded like a swinger's club 17:24 < ybit> there's no way asterisk is taking up more mem than firefox 17:24 < kanzure> what are you using asterisk for? 17:25 < ybit> nothing right now, but on occassion i mess around with it since i'm sure it will be handy one day 17:26 < kanzure> how is it? 17:26 < ybit> it works 17:26 < ybit> no complaints so far 17:27 < ybit> ah, htop was sorted by time 17:28 * ybit is off to do one of those ritualistic acts of celebrating someone's birth 17:28 < kanzure> gorging yourself with cakes? 17:28 < ybit> that's the plan :) 17:29 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-50-252.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:29 < genehacker2> singularity summit, now h+ summit 17:30 < genehacker2> how do you have time for this sort of stuff 17:30 < kanzure> i skip school 17:30 < genehacker2> oh 17:30 < kanzure> you should try it some time 17:30 < genehacker2> I am a sleepless zombie 17:30 < kanzure> that doesn't sound healthy 17:31 < genehacker2> I've had 3 tests so far and a lab report and I'm studying for the 4th one 17:31 < genehacker2> it's educational 17:31 < kanzure> i've had only two tests 17:31 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-173-242.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:32 < ekaterina> Grah, I had to go actually eat something 17:32 < ekaterina> such a waste of time. 17:32 < genehacker2> two tests, didn't you go to sing sum over the weekend? I have forgotten the details of what happened before tuesday due to the fact I'm a sleepless zombie 17:32 < kanzure> yes i went to thes ummit 17:32 < kanzure> *the summit 17:32 < kanzure> i met ekaterina there among other mortals 17:33 < kanzure> for a list of people i met: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/meetlog.txt 17:33 < ekaterina> we'll see who's a mortal once Derya analyzes my blood! 17:33 < genehacker2> also fluid equations are fucking awesome 17:33 < kanzure> navier stokes? 17:33 < genehacker2> yeah 17:33 < genehacker2> it makes sense 17:33 < kanzure> yes they can be fun 17:33 < kanzure> when i first discovered the basic rectangular cross section explanation i freaked 17:34 < genehacker2> yeah I had that today and acouple days ago 17:34 < genehacker2> still trying to understand the tensor thing 17:34 < genehacker2> think I'm going to derive some stuff over the weekend for fun 17:35 < genehacker2> anyway you're not dropping out of school are you? 17:35 < kanzure> i dunno 17:35 < kanzure> i'm definitely finishing up this semester 17:35 < kanzure> maybe i'll take a break 17:35 < genehacker2> seriously you really ought to take some of the hard engineering classes 17:35 < kanzure> they won't let me 17:36 < kanzure> maybe i should just show up 17:36 < ekaterina> you two go to the same school together? 17:36 < ekaterina> Oh, how i miss the wonders of Imperial biochem students.....not 17:36 < kanzure> i stumbled across genehacker sometime last year 17:37 < kanzure> we were talking about transhumanism, repraps and world domination 17:37 < ekaterina> just your everyday stuff...i see.. 17:37 < kanzure> pretty much 17:37 < genehacker2> well one way I've to get their attention is to do really well on the tests and then show up and eat the final 17:37 < genehacker2> yup 17:37 < genehacker2> I'm not really myself at the moment 17:37 < ekaterina> that's the only way to do it.. 17:38 < ekaterina> just absolutely ace some test at the beginning of the year 17:38 < ekaterina> how I got by without constantly being reprimanded for reading magazine and not paying any attention 17:38 < genehacker2> but I want to make DNA synthesizer capable of synthesizing more than 3 gigabases in one go using a DLP projector 17:39 < genehacker2> if you happen to know anything about the protecting groups used to protect the bases during oligonucleotide synthesis, that would help 17:41 < ekaterina> Unfortunately that's not in my database of information right now 17:41 < ekaterina> I'll really have to pick up pace if i plan to be this data entity you mentioned bryan 17:42 < kanzure> meep 17:42 < genehacker2> SKDB stuff? 17:43 < kanzure> and the data integration entity 17:43 < ekaterina> Although i suppose the fact that i know more immunology than Derya after 2 weeks is encouraging. 17:43 < kanzure> wait, is it? that sounds more scarry than anything else 17:43 < kanzure> does he know much? 17:43 < ekaterina> haha 17:43 < ekaterina> he knows a lot 17:44 < genehacker2> immunology eh? 17:44 < ekaterina> he's purposely trying to slow my progress 17:44 < ekaterina> by encouraging me to brainstorm random subjects and not continue photographic absorbtion 17:44 < genehacker2> got a question then, how the heck do antigen binding sites work 17:45 < ekaterina> well, that depends what antigen binding site you're talking about 17:45 < ekaterina> on which cell of the immune system 17:45 * kanzure goes to the grocery store 17:45 < ekaterina> and what antigen is binding.. 17:45 < ekaterina> hahah 17:45 < genehacker2> interesting 17:45 < kanzure> i think there might be a hydrogen bonding motif involved in some cases? 17:46 < ekaterina> there are non covalent interactions involved basically 17:46 < ekaterina> electrostatic, yes hydrogen, 17:46 < genehacker2> and how are antibodies for x antigen generated? 17:46 < ekaterina> van der walls 17:46 < kanzure> usually by inoculating a bacteria culture 17:46 < kanzure> or a rabbit 17:46 < ekaterina> you mean in vivo or in vitro.. 17:47 < ekaterina> you mean for clinical use? 17:47 < ekaterina> then kanzure is correct. 17:48 < genehacker2> after the innoculation part how do cells make the antibody, specifically how do choose the antigen binding site, surely they can't have a library of all possible antigen binding sites and they generate them on the go? 17:48 < ekaterina> the cells you are talking about are called B cells 17:48 < ekaterina> and each B cell is only specific to one antigen 17:48 < ekaterina> or epitope of the antigen 17:48 < ekaterina> a series of amino acids. 17:49 < ekaterina> B cells have immunoglobulins/antibodies on their surface that recognize these antigens, however their activation and differentation into cells that can then produce secretion antibodies requires T helper cell activation. 17:50 < ekaterina> so..they must also meet a T cell that is specific for the antigen they are specific too 17:50 < ekaterina> and the library you mentioned is generated via genetic recombination of the receptors on both B and T cells. 17:51 < ekaterina> they have these segmented genes/modules V, D, J, C.. 17:51 < genehacker2> and they recombine them into different sequences? 17:51 < ekaterina> that are recombined to give a repetoire around 10 to the power of 6 different kinds of B cells and T cells 17:51 < ekaterina> yes..obbiously this is very condensed 17:51 < ekaterina> the process itself is extremely complicated 17:52 < ekaterina> lots of details....I like details :) 17:52 < genehacker2> so the modules determine the shape of the antigen binding protein correct? 17:53 < genehacker2> and allow antibody for almost every protein correct? 17:53 < ekaterina> not quite so specifically, but yes 17:53 < ekaterina> the receptors for the antibodies dont actually differ that much 17:54 < ekaterina> its select amino acids that are changed. 17:54 < genehacker2> how many amino acids are changed? 17:54 < ekaterina> well, once again this depends what cells we're talking about 17:55 < ekaterina> for example...antigen presenting cells. 17:55 < genehacker2> what is the lowest amount of antibodies changed 17:55 < ekaterina> ie dendritic cells, macrophages, B cells, present via MHC molecules that pick up the antigent 17:55 < genehacker2> *amino acids changed 17:55 < ekaterina> the MHC mols all only really differ by about 50 amino acids. 17:55 < ekaterina> it key anchor residues that make the different 17:56 < ekaterina> like MHC class I molecules, usually anchor residues are amino acids 2 and 9 because they make the contact with the peptide. 17:57 < genehacker2> so can specific antibodies for any protein be made? 17:57 < genehacker2> using just the set of amino acids that change 17:58 < ekaterina> yes, the immune system is technically capable of generating antibodies for any type of antigen 17:58 < genehacker2> ok thanks 18:00 < ekaterina> so, how was the grocery shopping kanzure? 18:02 < kanzure> not done yet :) 18:03 < ekaterina> online? 18:03 < ekaterina> or are you just teleporting it all over using your mind? 18:05 < genehacker2> nah here we download grocery assembly instructions from an online database and have our automatic robot factories make them 18:05 < ekaterina> I would have expected as much 18:06 < genehacker2> unless of course the grocery in question requires materials which have been depleted, in which case a team of automatic material requisitioning robots is sent out 18:06 < ekaterina> what!!...you don't have the nanotechnology to generate these materials from their individual atoms yet??...How very unprogressive..:) 18:07 < ekaterina> thats really the final step.. 18:08 < ekaterina> then every material gain will become obsolete. 18:09 < genehacker2> no 18:09 < genehacker2> we don't need nanotechnology to do this 18:10 < genehacker2> though individual atom manipulating nanotech would be great 18:10 < genehacker2> it's just that it's nearly impossible to bootstrap 18:12 < ekaterina> key world being nearly.. 18:12 < ekaterina> word* 18:12 < ekaterina> where theres a concept theres a way.. 18:13 < ekaterina> i'll just be sitting around wating for a while so best work on my anti-aging theories. 18:13 < ekaterina> or help out in crygenics...one or the other. 18:13 < ekaterina> can't help but want the easy frozen for 50 years way out. 18:19 < genehacker2> actually by nearly impossible, I mean it can be done, it's just that it might take a long time to get there 18:20 < genehacker2> have you read about making tool tips for nanoassemblers? 18:20 < ekaterina> nope. 18:21 < ekaterina> not in detail anyway 18:23 < genehacker2> some step involved require a lot of human intervention 18:23 < genehacker2> and that the human intervention be done in a short time period 18:25 < genehacker2> I think the figure is that the tool tips made last only about 17 minutes(due to degradation from the few air molecules that weren't removed from the vacuum) and the yield of tool tips is very low 18:26 < genehacker2> actually if you get frozen now theres a good chance it could take more than 50 years to revive you... 18:27 < kanzure> still not gone yet :( 18:27 < kanzure> fake mom here.. 18:27 < genehacker2> due to cracking and other annoying process that occur during vitrification that could make informatic recovery harder 18:30 < genehacker2> anyway if you can figure out how to make cells not die or degrade for long periods without oxygen that'd help... 18:31 < ekaterina> ill just add to to the list of things to do.. 18:32 < genehacker2> and a cryoprotectant that isn't poisonous... that too 18:33 < ekaterina> :) 19:00 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-50-252.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:41 * kanzure nom nom on sushi 19:52 -!- ekaterina [n=chatzill@207-172-104-170.c3-0.avec-ubr9.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824085414]"] 20:27 < bkero> I want sushi :( 20:27 < kanzure> no sushi for you until you write 10k lines of code 20:28 < drazak> rofl 20:28 < drazak> I get to do something new on monday! 20:28 < drazak> ELISA 20:28 < katsmeow-afk> the idiot software? 20:28 < kanzure> no that's eliza 20:28 < katsmeow-afk> k 20:29 < drazak> katsmeow-afk: Enzyme-Linked Immunosorbent Assay 20:31 < katsmeow-afk> i know i entered 3 minutes in the microwave, because i can't do that to the refridgerator 20:46 < drazak> rofl 20:47 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-43-50.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:58 < drazak> kanzure: give me the abstract on openvirgil? 21:05 < kanzure> it's us 21:05 < kanzure> we're fucked :( 21:05 < kanzure> basically openvirgil morphed into openmanufacturing 21:05 < kanzure> skdb is openmanufacturing except "we're actually doing it" 21:06 < drazak> I kinda figured 21:06 < kanzure> i like how when google made "project virgil" paul fernhout immediatley jumped on it and started "doing it for reals" 21:06 < kanzure> hehe 21:06 < kanzure> go open source 21:06 < kanzure> except he doesn't actually do anything 21:07 < drazak> :D 21:07 < drazak> someone was telling me about it 21:07 < drazak> and I'm like 21:07 < drazak> "I know this bryan bishop guy..." 21:07 < drazak> and theybasically said I didn't 21:08 < kanzure> that you didn't know me? 21:08 < drazak> yeah 21:08 < kanzure> haha 21:08 < kanzure> please go on 21:08 < drazak> I kinda pointed to diybio and this channel 21:08 < drazak> and they were like 21:08 < drazak> "oh" 21:08 < kanzure> maybe i have a dopelganger? 21:08 < drazak> I've known you for like 2 years 21:08 < drazak> I dunno man 21:09 < drazak> but on and off for two years I've been hanging out here 21:45 < kanzure> oh shit ieee president at usc 21:59 -!- danielcc [n=trey@216.218.112.27] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:03 < kanzure> hello trey 22:04 < danielcc> hey there 22:04 < danielcc> who all is here? 22:04 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 27 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 27 normal] 22:04 < kanzure> lots of anonymous folks. 22:05 < kanzure> Noahj is in the fab academy 22:05 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk is some chick living on the high seas 22:05 < kanzure> drazak is in a biology lab somewhere 22:05 < kanzure> fenn is sleeping in my closet atm 22:05 < kanzure> various other people 22:06 < danielcc> lol 22:06 < kanzure> genehacker is a mechanical engineering student at ut austin 22:06 < danielcc> since this is involving biology so heavily, i know another guy that might be worth bringing into this project... 22:07 < danielcc> a friend of mine is currently at clemson with a 4.0 in micro biology 22:07 < kanzure> actually i would greatly appreciate anybody you know who knows about "feeds and speeds" 22:07 < danielcc> he he really up to par with how all of these things work 22:07 < kanzure> sure, bring him on in :) 22:07 < kanzure> manufacturing people are desperately needed 22:08 < kanzure> it's hard to find open source software people with experience in manufacturing or engineering 22:08 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-18b96bc5.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:08 < kanzure> (and not software engineering) 22:08 < kanzure> hey wrldpc2 22:08 < danielcc> most anyone engineering has some experience with manufacturing since it mostly revolves around it 22:08 < kanzure> some people have this "magical thinking" where they just expect manufacturing "to work" 22:09 < kanzure> and thus you get the crappy designs that machinists scratch their head over 22:09 < kanzure> hopefully this can be mitigated 22:10 < danielcc> i might should add i have access to the machine shop at usc.. 22:10 < kanzure> oh cool, i'd love to look at the equipment inventory sometime 22:10 < danielcc> as in i have the key to the front door of one of them... 22:10 < kanzure> i have some lists of different tools and machines in various environments 22:10 < kanzure> for instance, for fablabs: 22:10 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/BOMs/comparison/fablab.yaml 22:11 < kanzure> techshop: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/BOMs/comparison/techshop.yaml 22:11 < kanzure> and in general: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/BOMs/ultimate-tool-buying-guide.yaml 22:11 < danielcc> its mainly a lath and mill for this one... and a random silicon wafer slicer lol 22:11 < kanzure> but it's always good to learn about alternative ways to outfit a shop 22:11 < kanzure> cool. not a crystal puller, though right? 22:12 < danielcc> no that is kept in another part of the lab 22:12 < danielcc> we grow outside of that room 22:12 < kanzure> the ut has too many machine shops to count across campus, but the mechanical engineering shop has a few CNC machines, a row of lathes and mills, a casting area, etc. 22:12 < kanzure> neat, i wasn't expecting that 22:12 < danielcc> and bring the ingots to the machine shop to slice 22:12 < kanzure> i don't think we grow our own crystals 22:12 < kanzure> or if we deal with them at all (not sure) 22:13 < danielcc> the main machine shop has alot more than the sic one but it costs $ 22:14 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:14 -!- strages_ [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:15 < danielcc> have you ever worked on any semiconductor projects? 22:15 < kanzure> just some microprocessor architecture design 22:16 < kanzure> tried to route out the whole semiconductor manufacturing process once for the hell of it 22:16 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/semiconductor.html 22:16 -!- strages_ [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:17 < kanzure> huh according to that page i knew QuantumG in 2007? 22:17 < kanzure> (he sometimes shows up in here) 22:18 < danielcc> cool 22:19 < danielcc> how did this project turn out? 22:19 < kanzure> the microprocessor architecture work ended up being a high school presentation in my sophomore year 22:19 < kanzure> got to present to some UT professors, had a blsat 22:19 < kanzure> *blast 22:19 < kanzure> didn't do any simulations, it was mostly boolean algebra and a little VHDL/verilog 22:20 < danielcc> sweet 22:20 < danielcc> the majority of my projects in highschool involved alternative power and high temp furnaces 22:21 < danielcc> i once managed to power a small radio off of a long antenna 22:21 < danielcc> it was kind of neato 22:21 < kanzure> i need to sleep for a while but i'll be back in a few hours 22:21 < kanzure> ybit should keep you entertained for a while :p 22:22 < danielcc> lol 22:22 < danielcc> ok 22:23 < danielcc> it is 11:30 here so i will be leaving soon as well 22:24 < kanzure> feel free to idle 22:25 < danielcc> kk 22:25 < danielcc> either way i'm sure i will catch up with you soon enough 22:33 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:33 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:37 -!- strages_ [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:43 -!- strages_ [n=strages@76.29.231.141] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:45 -!- danielcc [n=trey@216.218.112.27] has left #hplusroadmap [] 22:54 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:56 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:58 -!- strages_ [n=strages@76.29.231.141] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:06 -!- strages_ [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:17 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:22 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:26 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-18b96bc5.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 23:33 -!- strages_ [n=strages@c-76-29-231-141.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37 * ybit is through entertaining danielcc 23:37 < ybit> 23:33 please improve pv for me will ya? 23:37 < ybit> 23:33 already on it 23:37 < ybit> 23:34 $20k just isn't worth it 23:37 < ybit> 23:34 yeah 23:37 < ybit> 23:34 we have a direct bandgap polymer on the way 23:37 < ybit> 23:34 it is pretty baller 23:37 < ybit> 23:34 also some nice quantum dot cells 23:37 < ybit> 23:35 which use quantum wells and junk... 23:37 < ybit> he promised to tell me more later, so someone hold him to this :P 23:38 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-182d019d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:38 < ybit> oi wrldpc2 23:38 * ybit is off to bed 23:59 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-182d019d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]