--- Day changed Sat Oct 10 2009
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02:51 < flamoot> http://ansistego.sourceforge.net/running-bear.png
02:55 < genehacker> what's that doing of sourceforge
02:55 < genehacker> that's not supposed to be there
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03:58 < fenn> oo this is cool.. webcam-based head tracking for 3d immersion http://www.k2.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/vision/ptz_wz_headtracking/yamaguchi_chi2009.wmv
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05:12 < fenn> more on that line of thought http://www.k2.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/perception/ParallaxAugmentedDisplay/index-e.html
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08:08 < fenn> more gargoyle tech.. it's too bad these things are flash.. wasn't this the point of quicktime vr?
08:09 < fenn> http://twistedsifter.com/2009/07/yellowbird-3d-video/
08:13 < fenn> when i was thinking about this before it would instead be mounted _around_ the operator's head, not above him
08:13 < fenn> like a helmet cam but pointing every direction
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09:33  * kanzure runs into fenn in yet another search
09:34 < fenn> what this time
09:39 < kanzure> bookmarks
09:39 < kanzure> was looking if anyone has used ODE with OCC
09:40 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/hdd-links
09:40 < kanzure> for the past few months i have been keeping track of the origin of content stored on my computers
09:41 < fenn> you mean like where you downloaded it?
09:41 < kanzure> for some reason i have stabilized on a standard of just throwing in urls into a file called url.txt in each dir
09:41 < kanzure> yes
09:41 < fenn> i wish i had done that ten years ago
09:41 < kanzure> me too :(
09:41 < fenn> but urls die so quick it's kinda useless
09:41 < kanzure> it's somewhat more useful than bookmarks 
09:41 < kanzure> since it's right where you might be wondering "wtf"
09:41 < fenn> i guess
09:42 < kanzure> the hdd-links file is the combined output of many "url.txt" files
09:54 < kanzure> http://1centbp.com/ woot tito was good for something
09:58 < fenn> tito wrote that?
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10:13 < kanzure> he linked to it
10:13 < kanzure> hello Trooem 
10:13 < Trooem> hi
10:13 < kanzure> are you a truism?
10:13 < Trooem> who is this bryan person from heybryan?
10:14 < Trooem> i don't know what that is. no.
10:14 < kanzure> me :)
10:14 < Trooem> really?
10:14 < kanzure> yes
10:14 < Trooem> wow
10:14 < kanzure> what can i do for you?
10:14 < Trooem> i've been reading your website thoroughly
10:14 < kanzure> it's kind of a black hole
10:14 < kanzure> be careful
10:14 < Trooem> i am amazed.
10:14 < Trooem> are you really 19?
10:14 < Trooem> are you still 19 i meant
10:14 < kanzure> yes
10:14 < Trooem> dear lord..
10:15 < kanzure> i feel old
10:15 < Trooem> how can you cover so much fields
10:15 < Trooem> in such an early age?
10:15 < Trooem> ........i'm in online marketing,
10:15 < Trooem> i'm 25.
10:15 < kanzure> are you?
10:15 < kanzure> i've been looking for a marketing person
10:15 < Trooem> well, i'm your man if you need information or making a quick buck
10:16 < kanzure> i'm not the best at selling myself or explaining to investors what on earth it is that i am doing
10:16 < Trooem> i'm planning on making 10k per day, that's my goal... don't know if it'll come true fast enought but...
10:16 < Trooem> i see
10:17 < Trooem> i'm not much of a salesletter person.. what i do is just hire people online to make the salesletter or
10:17 < kanzure> how did you find me?
10:17 < Trooem> just copy and paste their content
10:17 < kanzure> what is a salesletter?
10:17 < Trooem> main .index page of any products-
10:17 < Trooem> which is 1 page
10:17 < Trooem> sales letter
10:17 < Trooem> and they have a---
10:18 < kanzure> sorry, i don't understand
10:18 < Trooem> paypal acceptance or credit card payment processing link at the end
10:18 < Trooem> ok
10:18 < kanzure> oh
10:18 < Trooem> i'll show you a example.
10:18 < Trooem> http://warcraftriches.com/
10:18 < Trooem> that's a information product.
10:18 < Trooem> and what you see in there is a sales letter.
10:19 < kanzure> looks like spam
10:19 < Trooem> just a 1 page, sales letter- to persuade people into buying
10:19 < kanzure> do people seriously buy this shit?
10:19 < Trooem> no there is a difference between spam and permission based marketing
10:19 < Trooem> it depends
10:19 < drazak> kanzure: you suffere from the same problem as I
10:19 < Trooem> that warcraft niche- is overflooded.
10:19 < kanzure> drazak: aging?
10:19 < Trooem> but niches in medicine-
10:19 < Trooem> no
10:19 < kanzure> i wasn't aware that there was a WoW niche
10:20 < drazak> kanzure: "uhm well I have this great idea that will work, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH..." "oh uhm, what?"
10:20 < Trooem> it's about quantity
10:20 < kanzure> drazak: i've started to just carry around a laptop and show them working demos
10:20 < Trooem> there is. you keyword research- and there is a whole volume millions per day-
10:20 < Trooem> WoW became a success...
10:20 < Trooem> anyway
10:20 < Trooem> what i do is,
10:21 < Trooem> i promote info products, e-commerce related tangible products, and 'pharmaceuticals' per say with permission based
10:21 < Trooem> marketing
10:21 < Trooem> i actually build a database of leads and lists of people
10:21 < Trooem> who are genuinely interested
10:21 < Trooem> in the products
10:21 < Trooem> the niche
10:21 < Trooem> and pound them with the information they ask for
10:21 < kanzure> usually these lists of people are harvested from signup forms with checkboxes saying [x] yes i am interested in receiving ..
10:22 < Trooem> yup
10:22 < kanzure> these are usually checked to "yes please" by default on web pages
10:22 < drazak> kanzure: wtf is the deal with that anestisizing mice thread
10:22 < drazak> politics much?
10:22 < kanzure> drazak: haven't read it
10:22 < Trooem> i found you kanzure- because i was interested in that 'build a brain' article
10:22 < drazak> makes me want to shoot everyone who's involved heatedly
10:23 < kanzure> Trooem: ah, neat
10:23 < Trooem> how plausible do you think it is- seeing that in reality-
10:23 < Trooem> 10, 20 years?
10:23 < drazak> Trooem: build a brain, atleasts biologically, is probably 15 years away
10:23 < kanzure> Trooem: i just got back from a conference about that
10:23 < kanzure> i think less, drazak
10:23 < Trooem> really, what did they say>
10:23 < kanzure> ed boyden and many others are already doing transgenic brains
10:23 < kanzure> in fact, transgenic brains have been around for more than a decade
10:23 < Trooem> how close are the experts on that
10:23 < kanzure> one sec
10:23 < Trooem> are they building an wetware based A.I out of it?
10:23 < drazak> kanzure: well, I was talking about from cells on an ECM
10:24 < drazak> kanzure: implantable, or something
10:24 < kanzure> Trooem: no
10:24 < drazak> not in an animal
10:24 < Trooem> hmm i see
10:24 < kanzure> Trooem: which part about the "building brains" article are you referring to?
10:25 < Trooem> Anybody in the know would realize just how hard it is to grow a brain, much less a noncontaminated tissue culture in the lab. It sucks immensely. Growing a full, beating brain would force us to face some issues of vascularization and other aspects of tissue engineering. Organ farms are going to have to solve this one day too, but let's ignore it. What's important about the brain is the interaction between the neurons and the growth of the neurons to c
10:25 < Trooem> http://heybryan.org/buildingbrains.html
10:25 < kanzure> right
10:25 < kanzure> neuron tissue cultures are certainly possible
10:25 < kanzure> but it's hard to make the neurons not die
10:25 < kanzure> clean rooms are a good start, but even academic labs get infected with viruses and all of the cultures just crash
10:25 < kanzure> drazak: didn't you say you had an infection the other day?
10:26 < Trooem> they'd need to bio-engineer quite a bit the neurons to be able to make them practical.... errr..
10:26 < Trooem> kanzure, your covering so many fields, what is your ultimate scope, goal?
10:26 < Trooem> i'm curious
10:26 < Trooem> transhumanism?
10:27 < kanzure> transhumanism and then some, yes
10:27 < Trooem> not being pessimistic or trying to be, i'm all optimistic about --- anything.
10:27 < Trooem> cool
10:27 < kanzure> sounds dangerous
10:27 < kanzure> being optimistic about anything, i mean
10:27 < Trooem> i guess the best and sure way is --- cryonics?
10:27 < Trooem> have you made a account with alcor?
10:27 < kanzure> no, i'm too broke
10:27 < Trooem> or CI?
10:27 < kanzure> nope
10:27 < Trooem> i see
10:28 < Trooem> yeah your 19, student.
10:28 < kanzure> they haven't thawed a human successfully yet (or ever)
10:28 < Trooem> interesting...
10:28 < Trooem> not publically probably.... 
10:28 < Trooem> but maybe somewhere lol
10:28 < fenn> hum i thought i read some article recently about reconfigurable FPGA's as something like HTM/neural net
10:28 < kanzure> they would publicize the hell out of that
10:28 < fenn> did i imagine that?
10:29 < fenn> it was for an embodied robot
10:29 < kanzure> fenn: you're missing an adjective in that sentence. what about FPGAs and HTMs and ANNs?
10:29 < fenn> for "building brains"
10:29 < kanzure> or a verb
10:29 < kanzure> yes it's true you can implement all sorts of algorithms on FPGAs
10:29 < fenn> yeah but this is actually the right way to do it
10:29 < Trooem> it's so darn weird, just about every topic you mentioned here: http://heybryan.org/transhuman/roadmap.html
10:29 < Trooem> what i've been thinking about
10:30 < kanzure> Trooem: that document is old
10:30 < kanzure> please ignore it
10:30 < Trooem> but yours just far more detailed. i've been in online marketing...
10:30 < fenn> i mean biology sucks, we need to figure out how to implement the cortical algorithm on silicon
10:30 < kanzure> i wish i could apologize to the internet for that "roadmap"
10:30 < kanzure> Trooem: here's what i've been up to: http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb
10:30 < Trooem> yeah i was hoping i'd see some updates on it
10:30 < Trooem> thanks
10:30 < kanzure> skdb is sort of like the roadmap except on wheels and gears
10:31 < Trooem> so i'm guessing your ultimate goal is AI of sort?
10:31 < kanzure> no, i don't know what intelligence is
10:31 < fenn> i'd settle for what hawkins describes
10:31 < fenn> sorry to geek out about it
10:31 < Trooem> anything neurons can handle lol, maybe that's not upto you to understand... just force it?
10:31 < Trooem> lol
10:32 < Trooem> i'm really interested in A.I with wetware
10:32 < Trooem> william ditto's been experimenting with leech neurons
10:32 < kanzure> fenn: please read some mountcastle and whatever markram references (though not necessarily what markram writes, he doesn't write explicitly on columns)
10:32 < Trooem> and succeeded in that 1+1=2 
10:32 < Trooem> lol
10:32 < kanzure> sorry why would it be artificial if it's wetware?
10:32 < fenn> wah
10:32 < Trooem> hmm... well, synthetic biology.
10:33 < Trooem> i would assume they wouldn't let human neurons to screw around ethically
10:33 < Trooem> so they'd need to make it artificial?
10:33 < Trooem> i don't know
10:33 < fenn> there's nothing spcial about human neurons
10:33 < Trooem> yeah probably all neurons are similar i don't know jack about this field
10:33 < fenn> anyway you can make new neurons with stem cells
10:33 < Trooem> i'm just starting to get into it
10:33 < fenn> the problem is just doing tissue culture at all
10:34 < fenn> it's a pain in the ass
10:34 < kanzure> fenn: have you ever set one up?
10:34 < Trooem> i've mastered online marketing. i'm getting funds. heheheh
10:34 < kanzure> Trooem: you're getting funds?
10:34 < fenn> i've done tissue culture but it's not like i ran the lab
10:34 < kanzure> what does that mean?
10:34 < kanzure> fenn: did they live? :)
10:34 < fenn> yeah for a few months
10:34 < fenn> i had beating heart cells and pigmented retinal cells etc
10:34 < Trooem> i'm succeeding in online marketing that's what it means. i can get targeted traffic online anywhere for any niche, and turn that into legal money.
10:34 < kanzure> pigmented? sorry, what?
10:34 < Trooem> that's what it means.
10:34 < fenn> it's pretty cool how they just start beating on their own
10:35 < fenn> pigmented = purple from the retinol
10:35 < Trooem> this also means, i don't need to worry about getting a job, spending time there etc etc...
10:35 < Trooem> however,
10:35 < kanzure> i wanted to make a microcircuit / microcolumn in a dish
10:35 < kanzure> in the mouse brain these are 10k to 100k neurons
10:35 < Trooem> i'm pretty screwed with academics so, i'm starting over again now.
10:35 < kanzure> in a very particular organization
10:35 < kanzure> (probably due to gene expression gradients during the neuron-phase of embryology)
10:36 < Trooem> at a very late age... but hoping money will buy me time.
10:36 < Trooem> and... cheat into schools.
10:36 < fenn> Trooem: learning is easier than ever these days
10:36 < Trooem> rofl.
10:36 < fenn> school is bullshit
10:36 < kanzure> Trooem: you don't have to go to school
10:36 < kanzure> fenn: stop reading my mind
10:36 < Trooem> fenn: that's why i want to cheat
10:36 < kanzure> ?
10:36 < fenn> i think you're just predisposed to cheating
10:37 < Trooem> kanzure: i know, with internet and networks everywhere on whatever you want to learn, research and learning depends on your will, not school, but------
10:37 < kanzure> fenn: another good author is casanova
10:37 < Trooem> i want a degree just in case
10:37 < fenn> kanzure: what's with these guys' names?
10:37 < Trooem> i come from a family which values that jazz
10:37 < kanzure>     The minicolumn-macrocolumn relationship may be linked in part to both the termination of projections from the thalamus, which span a fixed distance and may serve to link together minicolumns that receive input from the same thalamocortical fibers, and by the effects of serotonin, changing columnar development in the cortex during brain development (Casanova 2006).
10:37 < Trooem> so...
10:37 < Trooem> that's why... 
10:37 < kanzure> fenn: hm? 
10:37 < fenn> casanova, mountcastle..
10:37 < fenn> why can't i have a name like that
10:37 < kanzure> it's a theme
10:37 < Trooem> otherwise if it was completly upto me, i wouldn't waste so much time on that.
10:38 < Trooem> for me, i absolutely know nothing about anything in academia,  just graduated high school so.........
10:38 < fenn> boo hoo hoo
10:38 < kanzure> suppose you could accurately write a general "minicolumn" class that represents a minicolumn in a brain
10:38 < Trooem> i'm just going to have to study chemistry, organic chemistry, biochemistry.... etc etc...
10:38 < fenn> Trooem: http://en.wikipedia.org/ start clicking
10:38 < kanzure> i want to know the parameters for different individuals, or different regions of the brain in different species
10:38 < Trooem> to be able to scratch the surface of molecular bio and syn bio right?
10:39 < kanzure> to be honest too many people "know" biology and "synthetic biology"
10:39 < Trooem> fenn: there are limits to what i can understand without fundamental learning. hehehhe...
10:39 < kanzure> i wish more bioinformatics people were into synthetic biology
10:39 < fenn> Trooem: nonsense
10:39 < Trooem> fenn: really?
10:39 < fenn> Trooem: you don't have to know what a quark is to tie your shoelaces
10:39  * kanzure does
10:39 < kanzure> it helps to figure out the quirks in the knots
10:40 < Trooem> i can always hire people smarter than myself i guess, make them do the work and all, but i'd gotta understand the mechanics at least...
10:40 < kanzure> you can figure out the mechanics
10:40 < kanzure> this is not magic
10:40 < Trooem> kanzure, you in uni of texas?
10:40 < kanzure> officially, yes
10:40 < Trooem> you should goto MIT or something man
10:40 < kanzure> they rejected me
10:40 < Trooem> was it the grades?
10:41 < kanzure> nah, i didn't kiss enough ass
10:41 < fenn> they never say why, just to haunt your for the rest of your life
10:41 < Trooem> i'm sure your smart enough though
10:41 < Trooem> and then some
10:41 < Trooem> or other prestigious schools...
10:41 < kanzure> honestly now i don't think i would want to go to MIT for undergrad
10:41 < kanzure> that's a hell
10:41 < Trooem> i'm planning on cheating into one with help of a friend.
10:41 < Trooem> lol
10:41 < Trooem> ..
10:41 < kanzure> i would rather be a lab tech or something at MIT
10:41 < Trooem> i c..
10:41 < kanzure> maybe sneak into their machine shops?
10:42 < Trooem> brb
10:42 < fenn> have you ever actually made something?
10:42 < kanzure> besides bullshit?
10:42 < kanzure> hm
10:42 < fenn> i mean, a functional device
10:43 < kanzure> fenn: have you seen markram's talk ever? he had some good pointers for what to look up
10:43 < fenn> i saw something about blue brain
10:43 < kanzure> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2874207418572601262&q=almaden+cognitive+computing
10:43 < kanzure> was it "the emergence of intelligence in the neocortical microcircuit"?
10:43 < fenn> i guess i'm not really that interested in the details of how it actually works
10:43 < fenn> i just want to play around and see what happens
10:44 < fenn> i have a feeling that a lot of crap is unnecessary
10:44 < kanzure> i'm not denying that
10:44 < fenn> why should neuroscience be complicated?
10:44 < kanzure> only the literature is complicated
10:44 < kanzure> it's because people look at the brain and go "oh shit wtf"
10:44 < fenn> hawkins is getting good results with his approach already
10:45 < kanzure> besides OCR?
10:45 < fenn> i dont suppose you know of any open source alternative development efforts
10:45 < fenn> for HTM
10:45 < kanzure> i had a list on my wiki once
10:45 < kanzure> under the "computational neuroscience" page
10:45 < fenn> it wasn't OCR, more like "what is this?" "it's a cat" what is this? "it's a boat"
10:46 < Trooem> kanzure, what do you think of regenerative medicine, aubrey de gray's SENS approach and nanomedicine and all that, you think immortality is near us?
10:46 < kanzure> gah why isn't djangit done yet
10:46 < fenn> that was the hot young intern's job
10:46 < Trooem> say in 20 years?
10:46 < kanzure> Trooem: i like aubrey but think that more people should do SENS-related-research in their own home
10:47 < kanzure> fenn: i'd like to point out that we did not, in fact, get a hot young intern
10:47 < Trooem> i c
10:48 < Trooem> damn... just reading your blog, i'm hesitant to wonder what you can do if you knew the skills i have and advance on it... 
10:48 < fenn> i have been watching high speed sensory fusion videos from ishikawa-komura lab today.. i've come to appreciate the need for realtime processing, which is why i'm rambling about FPGA's
10:48 < kanzure> Trooem: i have a blog?
10:48 < Trooem> i have trouble understanding technical concepts but you..
10:48 < kanzure> fenn: this might be it? http://web.archive.org/web/20080525114029/heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Computational_biology
10:48 < kanzure> Trooem: most people suck at explaining things
10:48 < Trooem> well, the heybryan.org
10:48 < Trooem> hmm
10:49 < kanzure> fenn: NEURON, PGENESIS, "emergence" from colorado, lots of software out there
10:49 < fenn> https://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=189617   <- those are the same images as Numenta uses
10:49 < kanzure> there's also a python group doing this
10:49 < kanzure> what's their name? urhm..
10:49 < Trooem> i'm trying to figure out if we can make a deal somehow and team up kanzure. legitimately if interested!
10:49 < fenn> kanzure: you're missing the point.. i don't want to simulate biology
10:49 < Trooem> but then i'm an ignorant when it comes to academics so i have no idea
10:49 < kanzure> fenn: do ANNs simulate biology?
10:50 < fenn> no
10:50 < kanzure> Trooem: okay
10:50 < kanzure> fenn: few of the projects are "simulating biology", then
10:50 < fenn> oh
10:50 < kanzure> also the organization of the brain is helpful, even hawkins admits that
10:50 < Trooem> can we have a common goal?
10:50 < fenn> is this philosophy?
10:50 < Trooem> would you interested in a research to get willam ditto's plan working?
10:51 < kanzure> Trooem: i'm starting a business, do you want to hear about it?
10:51 < Trooem> yes please
10:51 < fenn> of course; i'm just against slavish imitation
10:51 < kanzure> Trooem: fenn and i have been working on skdb, a free and open source program for downloading hardware over the web
10:52 < kanzure> if you want to grow neurons in a tissue culture, you need tool
10:52 < fenn> a debian of hardware designs
10:52 < kanzure> *tools
10:52 < kanzure> skdb tells you how to build those tools given what you have
10:52 < kanzure> and if you don't have the tools, then it tells you how to make those tools- or how to buy them
10:52 < Trooem> ok... i c. how will this profit you in any way?
10:53 < Trooem> in terms of money.
10:53 < kanzure> well, we're selling kits and technical support
10:53 < kanzure> some people are lazy and don't want to build their own screws (why would you?) or their own cars
10:53 < fenn> Trooem: it's hard to find something that is both worth doing and makes you money
10:53 < fenn> and often when you try to mix the two it fucks up both
10:54 < Trooem> fenn, may i ask your age?
10:54 < kanzure> so the six or nine month plan is to get a kit out the door for the diybio community
10:54 < fenn> so, the answer is "it will help you to build stuff" and stuff is usually worth money
10:54 < fenn> Trooem: i'm 27
10:54 < Trooem> ok, so how much in terms of money, monthly, are you expecting from this project?
10:54 < fenn> none
10:54 < Trooem> fenn: got it.
10:54 < Trooem> what?!
10:54 < Trooem> none?!
10:54 < kanzure> i've been asking for $10k to get rolling
10:54 < fenn> OMGWTFBBQ
10:55 < Trooem> i'm sure you have something behind this of course.
10:55 < fenn> Trooem: i've seen people waste more on a barbecue than i spend in a year
10:55 < Trooem> are you planning to monetize with adsense or some affiliate products?
10:55 < kanzure> nope
10:55 < fenn> if necessary, but i bet more interesting opportunities will arise
10:56 < Trooem> hmm... is this out of pure love for your studies and the philosophy of "information grows when you give it out" type of thing?
10:56 < Trooem> err...
10:56 < fenn> if i hold onto it too tightly it will wither and die, yes
10:56 < Trooem> hmm..
10:56 < fenn> it's hard enough just to get people to understand it in the first place
10:56 < kanzure> Trooem: we could rebuild civilization
10:56 < kanzure> we can make what we need and what we want
10:56 < kanzure> skdb helps us do this
10:57 < kanzure> in the mean time, other people are probably interested in various portions of it .. just like people buy ikea kits or shopbots for their machine shops
10:57 < fenn> a shopbot is not a machine tool :P
10:58 < kanzure> furniture toy?
10:58 < Trooem> this is my ability and what i've learned over the years, being in online marketing. i rank for any terms (keyword phrases on the net) specifically going for longtail (lower competition) keywords (because they rank easier on top 10, first page of google) and i make a landing page out of it to (build a email-database list) opt-in list. and i monetize it with various affiliate programs, 
10:58 < Trooem> and send the traffic- to wherever i need
10:58 < Trooem> CPA networks (they pay about 10 to 20 dollars per customer lead)
10:59 < fenn> how's that working out for you?
10:59 < fenn> i'm serious
10:59 < kanzure> fenn: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/meetlogparser.py i'm doing something wrong i think
10:59 < kanzure> it wokrs but it sucks
10:59 < Trooem> adsense (orphan pages blast toward the email listing)
10:59 < Trooem> and information products from clickbank
10:59 < fenn> btw kanzure you know you can do unordered sets in yaml with ? mark
10:59 < Trooem> i've yet to test out the mechanics of cloaking, and linking structures and etc etc....
10:59 < kanzure> example?
10:59 < Trooem> err but it's been doing well and i can collect the listing...
11:00 < fenn> foo:
11:00 < fenn>   ? bar
11:00 < Trooem> at any given point---
11:00 < fenn>   ? baz
11:00 < kanzure> okay
11:00 < Trooem> sorry i didn't read your post up there now reading
11:00 < Trooem> rebuild civilization
11:00 < Trooem> yup
11:00 < Trooem> ok
11:00 < Trooem> hmm..
11:00 < Trooem> damn
11:00 < Trooem> ambitious
11:01 < Trooem> but errm... i'd rather go for money and research into my own projects 
11:01 < fenn> it's the magic behind the 'print anything machine' that everyone is always rambling about
11:01 < Trooem> funding.
11:01 < kanzure> what good is money if you can't do anything?
11:01 < Trooem> what would you do, if you can make 100,000 per day? (or 10k per day)
11:01 < fenn> yeah, how am i going to afford to build a space colony with earth money?
11:02 < Trooem> but without money, how far do you think you can go with your research?
11:02 < fenn> i don't know
11:02 < kanzure> Trooem: if i don't have any money, worst case scenario, i can just suck it up and do stuff
11:02 < kanzure> Trooem: with $100k i would build a fabratory
11:02 < kanzure> a fablab/fabratory is basically a machine shop crossed with debian
11:02 < kanzure> "make anything" etc.
11:03 < Trooem> how do you guys plan on advertising and bringing traffic into your project? press release and magazines?
11:03 < kanzure> word of mouth
11:03 < kanzure> it's very effective so far
11:03 < Trooem> i guess it's not search engine traffic since it's philanthropic almost. people would actually print it for free.
11:03 < kanzure> yes
11:03 < Trooem> hmm....
11:03 < kanzure> there are two parts to this
11:04 < kanzure> skdb is the backend free software part, free hardware, etc.
11:04 < Trooem> fablab=rapid prototyping? 3d printers CAD and all that?
11:04 < kanzure> the business- which i don't have a name for yet- sells the kits and the support
11:04 < kanzure> Trooem: well the problem is that "3d printers" only do plastic. to do manufacturing you need to encompass a broader range.
11:04 < kanzure> metals, ceramics, plastics, etc
11:05 < Trooem> you contact casting companies with the plastic prototype and they make it into the material you want...
11:05 < fenn> meetlogparser.py looks fine to me
11:05 < Trooem> just send them the CAD..
11:05 < Trooem> hmm...
11:05 < kanzure> fenn: it just looks bad i guess
11:05 < kanzure> i feel unpythonic writing it like that
11:05 < kanzure> Trooem: do you know about free software?
11:06 < kanzure> free as in libre/freedom, not "free beer"
11:06 < fenn> there is probably some zip(map(lambda:)) magic you could be doing instead.. but why
11:06 < Trooem> not sure... with your brain powers, i would rather get into online marketing, go for about 10k to 100k per month, (which i'm 100% sure you will be able to, given enough fundamentals and tips) and go for bigger projects.
11:06 < Trooem> go for nobel prize or something.
11:06 < kanzure> yeah i'm sure lots of people have lots of money to throw at me to do stuff
11:06 < fenn> Trooem: how much do you earn from online marketing?
11:07 < fenn> numbers please
11:07 < Trooem> i'm only making about 10 to 20k ( in between) but it's quantitative.
11:07 < fenn> per what
11:07 < Trooem> i'm about to incorporate serious macro into the project and get indian outsourcing,
11:07 < Trooem> so that will increase 10x at least. i'm positive.
11:07 < Trooem> per monthly.
11:08 < fenn> how long have you been doing this? and how many hours a day do you spend?
11:08 < Trooem> i studied for 4 years. i used to spend 8 hours a day ritually, but since now i've got a partner, he does the management for me, given the fact that i have to give him the directions, and new scope, next strategy,
11:09 < Trooem> which takes time.
11:09 < Trooem> marketing isn't rocket science like you guys do.
11:09 < fenn> no.. i just have an aversion to it
11:09 < kanzure> i don't understand, who is writing you checks?
11:09 < Trooem> it's about getting that piece of info, which most 'gurus' on the net keep hush hush about. once you know that formula(which unfortunately can be taught in just a week or two) it's smooth sailing from there.
11:10 < Trooem> bunch of affiliate companies, various.
11:10 < Trooem> clickbank,
11:10 < Trooem> commission junction
11:10 < Trooem> hydra network
11:10 < Trooem> neverblue
11:10 < Trooem> adsense.
11:10 < Trooem> you name it.
11:10 < Trooem> or private affiliate companies
11:10 < fenn> from what examples i've seen or been stupid enough to buy, it doesn't matter if it's a real secret or not (many people sell info you can get for free with 5 minutes of google searching)
11:10 < Trooem> or (sorry to say) porn. if you want.
11:10 < Trooem> leads.
11:10 < Trooem> yup!
11:11 < Trooem> that's why you goto seminars and make networks with individuals and never ever buy those fucked up information products.
11:11 < Trooem> real 'secrets' come from word of mouth, and the insight-knowledge
11:11 < fenn> i don't see the connection
11:11 < Trooem> often times, they do come in form of subscription to private forums
11:11 < Trooem> see the connection between what?
11:11 < fenn> why does it have to be a secret in the first place?
11:12 < fenn> as soon as you sell the info it is no longer a secret
11:12 < Trooem> because for 1, what they mainly do is: 'blackhat' 
11:12 < Trooem> the term is frequently used for practices of internet marketing which is quasi-legal in nature
11:12 < fenn> you sell zero day exploits?
11:12 < fenn> oh
11:12 < Trooem> the most information so called gurus sell is 'white hat' and don't work, or you need serious, serious capital to even start making money.
11:13 < Trooem> but the real fact is that-
11:13 < kanzure> wtf is clickbank? you log in and then go write on your blog that you logged in?
11:13 < Trooem> those people who actually succeed,
11:13 < fenn> probably a pyramid scheme
11:13 < fenn> affiliate program = pyramid scheme, more or less
11:13 < Trooem> they begin making their money from quasi-legal spamming. (but not complete, email spamming, which will get you in trouble) but rather in the realm of messing with search engine algorithms.
11:14 < Trooem> sigh...
11:14 < fenn> except somehow it actually makes money at the bottom instead of just screwing the people at the bottom
11:14 < Trooem> no no.
11:14 < Trooem> clickbank is a company which distributes information products based on a niche,
11:14 < Trooem> they have thousands of information products,
11:14 < kanzure> i'm listening
11:14 < Trooem> and you sign up to promote this info product, and they give you a affiliate link
11:14 < Trooem> an affiliate link is:
11:15 < Trooem> www.infoproduct.com/yourpersonalID
11:15 < Trooem> once peope click on that,
11:15 < Trooem> an 'cookie' goes into their browser
11:15 < Trooem> this cookie is a script
11:15 < Trooem> which goes into their browser and when they make a purchase,
11:15 < Trooem> you get 50% from the amount they pay,
11:15 < Trooem> and this amoutn is immediately shown on your stats,
11:16 < Trooem> and you are sent a notification you just made a sale
11:16 < Trooem> etc etc...
11:16 < Trooem> the same principle works with,
11:16 < Trooem> cpa networks (cost per acquisition networks)
11:16 < Trooem> in which they pay you for,
11:16 < Trooem> information of people.
11:16 < Trooem> their phone numbers,
11:16 < Trooem> address,
11:16 < Trooem> their interests,
11:16 < Trooem> which people willingly sign up for,
11:16 < Trooem> in exchange for a incentive
11:17 < fenn> so, what are you going to do with all this money?
11:17 < Trooem> such as a information on whatever they were looking for in the first place
11:17 < Trooem> fenn: well, i'm here.
11:17 < fenn> so am i
11:17 < Trooem> and i want to learn academics.
11:17 < Trooem> what i'm planning to do
11:17 < kanzure> do you know what a patron is?
11:17 < Trooem> is the first thing,
11:17 < Trooem> i'm going to make a cheating device-
11:17 < Trooem> err... outsourced
11:18 < Trooem> and cheat into a school.
11:18 < Trooem> next, i gotta learn learn.
11:18 < Trooem> and so on
11:18 < Trooem> my business will expand.
11:18 < Trooem> what is a patron?
11:18 < Trooem> please don't be pessimistic if you are planning to be, i'm not trying to sell you guys anything. just sharing information.
11:19 < Trooem> english, is my second language by the way.
11:19 < Trooem> so i could be a little off-tune and the words i use may be elementary. or something like that.
11:19 < kanzure> a patron is a person who funds another person who "does really neat stuff that will probably end up making a few billion dollars in the future"
11:19 < fenn> i am pessimist/skeptic by nature, but people trying to sell me information especially raises alarms
11:19 < Trooem> oh why didnt you just say investor.
11:20 < kanzure> i don't speak money too well
11:20 < fenn> investors expect monetary return on investment
11:20 < fenn> patrons reap 'psychic rewards' or some such
11:20 < Trooem> fenn: don't worry, i'm not going to ask you to buy anything. whatever i'm giving you here is just facts, and information for your pleasure.
11:20 < fenn> think michaelangelo
11:20 < fenn> what is the value of the sistine chapel?
11:20 < fenn> it's just some paintings
11:20 < kanzure> what is the value of debian? it's just some code..
11:21 < Trooem> i'm thinking, you guys should learn to earn this money by yourselves. i could teach you from beginning to end.
11:21 < Trooem> for 50/50? i don't know
11:21 < Trooem> i don't know how it would work.
11:21 < fenn> heh
11:21 < fenn> Trooem where are you from?
11:22 < Trooem> this is south korea
11:22 < Trooem> but i'm a canadian citizen
11:22 < Trooem> so........
11:22 < Trooem> but i speak korean natively.
11:22 < Trooem> and i'm guessing both of you are white.
11:22 < fenn> ok
11:22 < kanzure> i have some contacts in korea that i do not understand, maybe sometime you can check them out for me
11:22 < Trooem> haha :)
11:22 < Trooem> sure np
11:23 < fenn> yes, i am of european/russian descent and grew up in indiana
11:23 < Trooem> ok 
11:23 < kanzure> i am of internet descent and grew up in texas
11:23 < fenn> i am of the hacker/scientist ethnic group
11:23 < fenn> however i do not have a beard or wear flannel
11:23 < kanzure> (he's a bad hacker)
11:23 < fenn> :(
11:23 < kanzure> no cookie for you
11:24 < fenn> your cookies were awful anyway
11:24 < Trooem> i'm just a ignorant high school graduate, who decided to study online marketing since 2005. err, and succeed just a couple months ago. now thinking of using money to get my life back academically, among other things i've lost for the sake of online marketing.
11:24 < kanzure> i wish it had a warning on it: "terrible cookies inside"
11:24 < fenn> Trooem: have you heard of appropedia?
11:24 < Trooem> fenn: no
11:25 < fenn> http://www.appropedia.org/  it's a bunch of technology "how to" articles for third world stuff, mostly
11:25 < Trooem> what is it...
11:25 < Trooem> ok
11:25 < fenn> the interesting thing is you can do a lot of good with a tiny amount of money, but people just don't bother to for some reason
11:26 < fenn> that's why i asked where you are from.. to understand your perception of the world
11:26 < Trooem> this stuff is way over my head
11:26 < fenn> well at some point you will have so much money that you don't know what to do with it
11:26 < Trooem> i just believe in science and power of using people smarter than myself in a sense to accomplish something, and give something as a trade-off such as money.
11:27 < Trooem> yeah, that is plausibly the case, i have a indian partner, and we are splitting 50/50. both of us, we plan on going for 100k per DAY
11:27 < Trooem> and i think it's a good possibility
11:27 < fenn> i just believe in using technology to accomplish something
11:28 < fenn> but i'm trapped in this awful place where people will shoot me if i don't give them some absurd amount of money every month
11:28 < Trooem> are you in debt?
11:28 < fenn> (that was slightly exaggerating0
11:28 < Trooem> ok...
11:28 < fenn> i've never actually stuck around long enough without paying rent to see what would happen
11:29 < fenn> but supposedly the sherriff comes out to evict you eventually
11:29 < fenn> 100k per day is not realistic
11:29 < Trooem> ok that sounds serious
11:30 < Trooem> maybe not now, but 10k per month was not realistic when i started.
11:30 < Trooem> but it is.
11:30 < Trooem> with outsourcing ecommerce products from china, making my information products in such a way that is just quantitative,
11:30 < Trooem> collecting list, and managing all that,
11:30 < fenn> there are scaling limits.. people only have so much disposable income and the market gets saturated etc.
11:30 < Trooem> pharmaceuticals, etc etc. i'm pretty sure.
11:30 < fenn> maybe i am just a pessimist
11:30 < kanzure> out of the people that click your links how many buy something?
11:31 < kanzure> 1%?
11:31 < Trooem> no less.
11:31 < Trooem> 0.15 is the right percentage
11:31 < Trooem> i think 
11:31 < Trooem> 400 to 250 to 1 sale
11:31 < fenn> you focus on information only? or do you link to physical products too?
11:31 < kanzure> what is the sample size? i.e. how many people is 100%?
11:31 < Trooem> for 140 dollar product
11:31 < Trooem> what is the figure on that
11:32 < Trooem> right now, i'm focusing on information, but i've been dabbling on electronic products as an affiliate
11:32 < Trooem> but monetization is not importantn
11:32 < Trooem> if people are remotely interested, and the salespage is ok,
11:32 < Trooem> people buy if you send LOTS of visitors related to the topic
11:32 < Trooem> whats important is:
11:32 < Trooem> how do you get this targeted traffic?
11:33 < Trooem> and that's the thing.
11:33 < fenn> is that a secret?
11:33 < Trooem> i've figured it out.
11:33 < Trooem> yup.
11:33 < fenn> ok :)
11:33 < kanzure> so 400 to 1 sale? at 0.15%? so you have to get 26 million unique visitors?
11:33 < Trooem> haha once you know it, it's like...hmm..
11:33 < kanzure> sorry i find that hard to believe
11:33 < Trooem> 26 million uniques?!
11:33 < Trooem> what are you talking about?
11:34 < Trooem> i didn't say i make 100k per day right now!
11:34 < kanzure> 1 sale per 400 people is about 0.25% click-thru
11:34 < Trooem> ok
11:34 < Trooem> what of it?
11:35 < kanzure> so you have about 166 buys per day?
11:35 < Trooem> of a 140 dollar product ?
11:35 < Trooem> no way
11:35 < Trooem> 20 dollar products from clickbank, and few of 140 dollar ones.
11:35 < Trooem> there's a list of database i have from aweber.com
11:35 < Trooem> opt-in.
11:35 < Trooem> and it send an autoresponder.
11:36 < Trooem> with the affiliate link.
11:36 < Trooem> people purchase.
11:36 < kanzure> 500 buys per day of $20?
11:36 < Trooem> once i blast them the message. but then i have to gather new ones.
11:37 < Trooem> i make about 300 to 1k per day, depending on the days
11:37 < fenn> 500 buys / 0.15percent = 333,000 visitors
11:37 < kanzure> yeah..
11:37 < fenn> that's per month
11:37 < kanzure> no per day
11:37 < kanzure> he said $10k per day
11:37 < fenn> how many hits does heybryan get?
11:37 < Trooem> no no
11:37 < kanzure> about 300k per mo
11:37 < Trooem> i'm aiming for 10k per day!
11:37 < fenn> oh, whatever, i'm fine with $10k/mo :)
11:38 < Trooem> i'm making between 10k to 20k per month, and that's just beginning.
11:38 < fenn> kanzure: how many hits are human?
11:38 < kanzure> fenn: dunno
11:38 < Trooem> oi...
11:38 < kanzure> Trooem: so you send a link out to 333k people per mo?
11:38 < kanzure> just wondering
11:38 < Trooem> i don't understand what you mean by link out but
11:38 < kanzure> your link
11:38 < kanzure> you send a link to 333k people/mo ?
11:39 < fenn> we are going on the assuption that you spam email or forums or something
11:39 < Trooem> if you mean could i get 333k traffic per month from various niches, a resounding YES>
11:39 < Trooem> no no
11:39 < Trooem> i do not spam emails.
11:39 < Trooem> that is illegal
11:39 < Trooem> what i do is permission based marketing
11:39 < Trooem> in which i make a landing page,
11:39 < kanzure> sorry i just don't understand
11:39 < Trooem> with a video,
11:39 < kanzure> you said you get about 0.15%
11:39 < kanzure> who actually buy
11:39 < kanzure> so if you're making $10k/mo
11:39 < kanzure> then you need 333k people to see your link
11:40 < kanzure> (on a $20 product)
11:40 < Trooem> ? i opt them into a email database
11:40 < fenn> aha
11:40 < kanzure> you opt in 333,000 people?
11:40 < fenn> the truth comes out at last
11:40 < Trooem> why is that so hard to believe?
11:40 < kanzure> because there's only 6.5 billion people in the world
11:41 < Trooem> 333k people? hmm...
11:41 < kanzure> i guess that's 19,000 times that you could do this
11:41 < kanzure> the numbers just aren't making sense, sorry
11:41 < Trooem> i am very confused myself.
11:41 < fenn> the numbers make sense, but i can't believe 333k/mo would sign up for marketing emails
11:42 < Trooem> you want to see how it works?!
11:42 < Trooem> ok wait.
11:43 < Trooem> how do i do this without revealing what i do.
11:43 < fenn> heh
11:43 < Trooem> ok you have this landing page. like you saw in warcraft niche
11:43 < Trooem> you got a video, you got a model from livefaceonweb.com
11:43 < Trooem> you got a good headline.
11:43 < Trooem> then you have a opt-in
11:43 < Trooem> suggesting if you opt-in,
11:43 < Trooem> you get a guide or a incentive on what you were looking for.
11:44 < Trooem> people look at that and they sign up.
11:44 < Trooem> but if you're asking,
11:44 < Trooem> HOW DO YOU GET THAT MANY PEOPLE
11:44 < Trooem> i use google, bing, yahoo and the lesser search engines
11:44 < Trooem> to rank for the keyword terms provided by wordtracker.com
11:44 < Trooem> which shows the data of every keyword,
11:45 < Trooem> what the search volume is for that keyword,
11:45 < Trooem> the competition i havve to win out
11:45 < Trooem> in order to rank for top 10 listingl
11:45 < Trooem> now,
11:45 < Trooem> the search term,
11:45 < Trooem> the search volume.
11:45 < Trooem> sec.
11:45 < fenn> this is all vaguely familiar from 4 hour workweek
11:46 < Trooem> https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal
11:46 < Trooem> type in any keywords in there
11:46 < Trooem> and they show you the search volume per day. the competition, etc etc.
11:46 < Trooem> i make about 400 to 600 pages per day.
11:47 < Trooem> i've been making it for quite a while.
11:47 < Trooem> that's 400 to 600 keywords per day.
11:47 < Trooem> do the math.
11:47 < fenn> could you explain what you just said?
11:47 < Trooem> 10k per month isn't much in this business.
11:47 < fenn> 400 pages a day means what exactly?
11:47 < Trooem> 400 landing pages a day
11:47 < fenn> different keyword <meta> tags?
11:47 < Trooem> 1 keyword = 1 page.
11:48 < Trooem> on top 10 search engine.
11:48 < Trooem> i mean ranks.
11:48 < Trooem> no meta tags.
11:48 < Trooem> 1 keyword = 1 page.
11:48 < Trooem> each keyword brings in the search volume, mostly lesser than expected or shown on google's tools, or wordtracker,
11:48 < Trooem> but it brings in what i need.
11:48 < Trooem> people sign up,
11:48 < Trooem> i don't exactly know what the conversion rate for opt-in is.
11:49 < Trooem> but i know the sales conversion, and that is what i said.
11:49 < Trooem> i people NEVER buy the product, which it often happens,
11:49 < Trooem> i send them a adsense page.
11:49 < Trooem> in which they pretty much HAVE to click on,
11:49 < Trooem> and it's legal.
11:50 < Trooem> with about 50,000 database, i get about 300 to 500 dollars. from 10 cents per click or less.
11:50 < Trooem> it's NOT THAT HARD.
11:50 < Trooem> sigh.........
11:50 < Trooem> the pessimissm. the skepticism.
11:50 < kanzure> no just learning
11:51 < Trooem> but then if i taught you from beginning to end,
11:51 < Trooem> how easy for you guys to probably bash out 100k per month in like few months?
11:51 < Trooem> yeah you guys are smart, but too smart for your own good maybe
11:51 < Trooem> brb
11:51 < fenn> i am just lazy
11:55 < Trooem> if you have more questions i am happy to answer, but please don't make it in the form of a accusation. it's very heart wrenching(?) i don't know the proper term
11:56 < fenn> thanks for answering my questions
11:56 < fenn> a lot of people just flake out when i ask hard stuff like "what do you actually sell?"
11:56 < Trooem> and i'm sure there is a way to make a deal of sort, without resulting you guys to pessimism or skepticism or nontrust or whatever. 
11:56 < kanzure> i'm sure we can be mutually helpful
11:57 < Trooem> if it's the trust issue, i'm willing to just give out the information from my side first, until you see results.
11:57 < Trooem> but then afterwards is the problem,
11:57 < Trooem> what if you just ditch me?
11:57 < Trooem> i just wasted 2 months. 
11:57 < Trooem> and so on.
11:57 < kanzure> you're welcome to hang out here
11:57 < kanzure> we've been doing this for years
11:57 < Trooem> but i am willing.
11:57 < fenn> well according to you i just need to get some ridiculous amount of unique visitors
11:58 < kanzure> most people idle in here until something interesting comes about
11:58 < Trooem> targeted visitors.
11:58 < fenn> i can think of lots of ways to get visitors
11:58 < fenn> 'targeted' is almost meaningless when you can sell anything you want
11:58 < Trooem> people searching for acai berries wants a products on acai berries. etc.
11:58 < Trooem> viagra applies to all search terms, but then the moment you do that,
11:58 < Trooem> it becomes spam.
11:59 < Trooem> you have to give people what they need, and what they ask for.
11:59 < Trooem> this is legal. and thus it's called permission based marketing...
12:00 < fenn> kanzure: remember when i was talking about psychosis inducing drugs? well this would be a perfect application
12:00 < fenn> i just need to make an "evil fenn" split personality that will do all my web-based marketing drudgery
12:02 < fenn> so trooem you buy 400 adsense words per day?
12:07 < Trooem> my partner does the adsense, but no, we mostly use the same keyword list. adsense appears automatically depending on the content you have on the page.
12:08 < Trooem> you.... should try adsense...
12:09 < Trooem> everything we do is almost auto once setup. minus the people who do the data entry which i hire from elance.com or rentacoder.com
12:10 < Trooem> keyword research is very simply done.
12:13 < Trooem> i'm wondering if that was enough of information to get you guys making money in this game already LOL.
12:14 < Trooem> i fear you two are too smart and absorb everything i have and go beyond in few days. ROFL.
12:14 < fenn> i already had enough info to get started before you showed up.. but it's hard to believe in the entire concept
12:15 < fenn> i mean, i don't know anyone who actually makes a living on this style of commerce
12:15 < Trooem> it's harder than you'd think. but yes it's all true.
12:15 < Trooem> you can always enter a internet marketing seminar. texas often has marketing seminars, you build networks from there
12:15 < Trooem> hear stories, successes.
12:16 < Trooem> 17 years olds making 100k per month...
12:16 < Trooem> then you get jealous.
12:16 < fenn> it's seductive to someone with my hikkikomori lifestyle, so i want to believe in it, but that makes my rational part overcorrect..
12:16 < Trooem> because you're overeducated and believe firmly in just over broke jobs.
12:16 < Trooem> get paid for your hourly wages.
12:16 < fenn> something like that
12:17 < fenn> i'm actually a hippie idealist
12:17 < fenn> nobody should have to work
12:18 < Trooem> haha infotech, I.T industry, whether your in bio or online marketing, it's heavily dependent on tools and information. bringing traffic isn't that hard if your smart. i wasn't. took me 4 years to master the concepts and the laws. and finally started making money. 
12:18 < Trooem> yeah......
12:18 < Trooem> nobody should be working, just studying and experimenting.
12:19 < Trooem> then we'd achieve physical immortality no problem
12:19 < Trooem> in like .......
12:19 < Trooem> 10 years.
12:19 < Trooem> haha
12:19 < fenn> heh 'hikkikomori' links to 'Delayed sleep phase syndrome'
12:19 < Trooem> so you guys are doing something very noble.
12:19 < Trooem> insomnia?
12:20 < fenn> i'm pissed that there is still no moon base
12:20 < Trooem> ok.....
12:20 < fenn> i guess you could call it insomnia.. http://fennetic.net/sleep/  the blue parts are sleep, one day per line
12:20 < Trooem> yup they launched a rocket to the moon yesterday was it? to check out if there is ice or something..
12:21 < Trooem> is that somekind of gene analysis data or something lol
12:21 < Trooem> looks complicated
12:21 < fenn> life log
12:21 < Trooem> ok
12:21 < fenn> i write down everything i do, to the minute
12:22 < Trooem> what is your ultimate goal, 
12:22 < Trooem> in science-
12:22 < Trooem> mine is.... 
12:22 < fenn> um.. that's sort of a broad question
12:22 < fenn> i don't pretend to know the answer
12:22 < Trooem> longevity, life extention or A.I of sort....
12:22 < fenn> that's just the beginning
12:22 < Trooem> you gotta have a goal haha
12:22 < fenn> what do you do for the rest of eternity once you're immortal and superintelligent etc
12:23 < Trooem> i can only think of that once i get that longevity...
12:23 < Trooem> they got that iPS stem cell thing now so who knows, it'll speed up regenerative meds
12:24 < Trooem> if i can make 100k a day, supposing,
12:24 < fenn> yeah that is amazing
12:24 < Trooem> what could a person do with it?
12:24 < Trooem> i feel my brain is empty. rofl
12:24 < fenn> fund an army of researchers
12:24 < Trooem> and i don't want to become another donald trump
12:24 < Trooem> and invest in real estate and make more money that's just... 
12:25 < Trooem> yeah...
12:25 < Trooem> that's the plan, but i gotta know some stuff. lol..
12:25 < fenn> recruit chinese high school students from internet death camps to do amazing things
12:25 < fenn> i need to learn chinese
12:25 < Trooem> chinese... for all their population they're not getting the nobel prizes
12:26 < Trooem> and... that's because they can't afford
12:26 < Trooem> the research
12:26 < Trooem> haha
12:26 < fenn> why not? because they work on assembly lines all day plucking chicken feathers
12:26 < Trooem> chinese? i guess thats goood
12:26 < fenn> that's robot work.. wtf
12:26 < fenn> i say chinese because they are just as intelligent as any other people, but i can hire a zillion of them
12:27 < Trooem> yeah... but the educated you need to pay more haha
12:27 < Trooem> otherwise you gotta train them
12:27 < fenn> and they all speak chinese, unlike, say, africa, or malaysia
12:27 < Trooem> i'd want a A.I to do my bidding
12:28 < Trooem> how about indians? they speak english and cheap :)
12:28 < fenn> yes india is good too
12:28 < Trooem> not that trust-worthy though..
12:28 < Trooem> culturally very very smart people, but they have their devious sides.
12:28 < fenn> don't we all
12:28 < Trooem> but then again, koreans are worst of them all so. lol..
12:28 < fenn> heh
12:28 < Trooem> yeah...
12:29 < Trooem> fastest connection in the world in terms of high speed internet. but no SINGLE skill in information technology. lol
12:29 < Trooem> all they do is play outdated starcraft and they've got a tv channel for it.
12:29 < Trooem> sigh.........
12:29 < fenn> i'm trying to do starcraft for realz
12:29 < fenn> that's what skdb is sorta
12:30 < Trooem> how is it related?
12:30 < fenn> well in starcraft you have to build a refinery before you can build a tank factory
12:30 < Trooem> haha the management of troops
12:30 < Trooem> yup haha
12:30 < fenn> and once you click 'build' the robots assemble the refinery and then you just wait around
12:30 < fenn> so it's a high level approach to manufacturing, really
12:31 < Trooem> that's almost literal-
12:31 < Trooem> to your project
12:31 < Trooem> the analogy
12:31 < fenn> the same kind of constraints apply in real life too, it's just nobody has bothered to write them down yet for some reason
12:31 < fenn> yeah i should use the starcraft analogy more often
12:31 < fenn> thanks
12:31 < Trooem> cause when you mention the word video game it automatically becomes childish, but it's a good visual analogy for today's generation like us...
12:32 < Trooem> i was thinking warhammer (much like starcraft) with -----nanorobotics in nanomedicine
12:32 < Trooem> lol
12:32 < Trooem> one troop for repair of cells
12:32 < Trooem> the other types for white blood cell enhancement,
12:33 < Trooem> the other for getting rid of the waste deposits in the cells
12:33 < Trooem> etc etc
12:33 < Trooem> oi.........
12:33 < fenn> i think kanzure linked to this beforre http://www.gamespot.com/pages/tags/index.php?tags=starcraft%20tech%20tree
12:33 < Trooem> so you graduated from uni already? 
12:33  * fenn comforts his dying laptop
12:34 < fenn> yes i studied molecular biology
12:34 < Trooem> wow
12:34 < fenn> they didn't teach anything in school. like i said, it's bullshit
12:34 < Trooem> oh
12:35 < Trooem> must be the 'field experience' that tested your mettle
12:35 < Trooem> no idea im using that correctly my english is weird
12:35 < fenn> also i sort of expected genetic engineering to be like 20 years further along than it was
12:35 < Trooem> lol
12:36 < Trooem> i see 
12:36 < Trooem> guess we got long ways ahead of us
12:36 < fenn> i never did anything real with bio, got fed up with science during my undergrad research
12:36 < Trooem> did you get the degree?
12:36 < Trooem> you can probably follow syn bio now, since you learned upto the point of molecular bio 
12:37 < fenn> can't get funding unless you're a professor, can't do anything interesting if you're a professor because you're an old fart, have to be an old fart to be a professor, once you're a professor you have underlings do meaningless bullshit instead of real research.. blah blah blah
12:37 < Trooem> follow craig venter if you like hahah
12:37 < fenn> syn bio is actually pretty pathetic
12:37 < fenn> they don't have enough empirical engineering work
12:38 < fenn> i'm sure jonathan cline can rant all day about this if you want
12:38 < Trooem> i guess so. everything in biology except maybe agricultural biotechnology is not practical and all....
12:38 < Trooem> so you think they're not close to making that artificial lifeform?
12:38 < fenn> all that monsanto stuff is just penicillin all over again
12:38 < Trooem> oh
12:39 < fenn> if you define artificial lifeform as copy + paste, then yes, it's right around the corner
12:39 < Trooem> oh
12:39 < fenn> life is so poorly defined though
12:39 < Trooem> but not upto the point of producing oil from plants?
12:39 < Trooem> haha
12:39 < Trooem> i see
12:39 < fenn> i define life as cells that use the same amino acid coding scheme
12:40 < fenn> producing oil from plants already works.. what are you talking about
12:40 < Trooem> oh
12:40 < fenn> what do you think canola oil is :)
12:40 < Trooem> im ignorant nevermind
12:40 < Trooem> motor oil lol
12:40 < fenn> plants are poor PV panels, their only advantage is cheapness
12:41 < Trooem> i'm trying to figure out what the best route to longevity is... follow aubrey de gray or leave it upto them and go straight for wetware stuff... haha
12:41 < fenn> wetware meaning what?
12:41 < Trooem> wetware meaning... synthesized intelligence through computer interface?
12:41 < Trooem> from neurons
12:42 < Trooem> neurons to computer connection
12:42 < fenn> so "gradual upload"
12:42 < fenn> nanobots swimming around in your brain, right?
12:42 < fenn> a chip won't cut it
12:42 < Trooem> or just a 'being' to do your work for you. lol
12:43 < fenn> but that's not "really you"
12:43 < Trooem> no i don't me in there i mean-
12:43 < Trooem> i want separate neurons,
12:43 < fenn> a neural prosthesis.. i get it
12:43 < fenn> but you were talking about longevity
12:43 < Trooem> to be communicating as a artificial intelligence
12:43 < Trooem> haha yeah
12:43 < Trooem> yeah i was thinking
12:44 < Trooem> superior intelligence with serious amount of neurons = solutions to longevity?
12:44 < Trooem> LOL
12:44 < Trooem> the bio A.I doing the work for you
12:44 < Trooem> instead
12:44 < fenn> kanzure likes to call this "brain pods"
12:44 < Trooem> aubrey de gray and his poor team
12:45 < fenn> i'm not convinced that more neurons = more intelligence
12:45 < kanzure> i dunno what intelligence is
12:45 < fenn> oh shush
12:45 < Trooem> ha
12:45 < Trooem> the same quote
12:45 < Trooem> who knows
12:45 < fenn> s/intelligence/ability to find techniques for increasing longevity/
12:46 < ybit> Trooem: who are you? are you using tor?
12:46 < kanzure> s/intelligence/longevity/
12:46 < Trooem> ybit who are you? no im not using tor.
12:46 < ybit> your ip is korean
12:46 < ybit> i'm heath matlock
12:46 < Trooem> are you guys organizing my ID into a folder in your website?
12:46 < Trooem> i am korean in south korea, im not using tor.
12:47 < Trooem> well canadian.
12:47 < Trooem> speaking korean
12:47 < kanzure> an ID on a folder? what? communication error
12:47 < Trooem> whatever
12:47 < fenn> make up your mind :P
12:47 < Trooem> what the sorry
12:47 < Trooem> i mean idea
12:47 < Trooem> ID=idea
12:47 < Trooem> lol
12:47 < Trooem> ybit confused me
12:47 < fenn> i think ID was correct
12:48 < fenn> you can submit a freedom of information request to one of our regional offices
12:48 < kanzure> we have offices in san francisco, austin, chicago and boston
12:48 < kanzure> one of our local hplusroadmap representatives will be with you shortly
12:48 < kanzure> please remain seated
12:48 < Trooem> what how did you guys afford all that?
12:49 < Trooem> ........your joking.
12:49 < kanzure> :) but we do have people in here from all around the world
12:49 < ybit> damn, nobody ever mentions my office in the third world country which katsmeow-afk and myself live in
12:49 < Trooem> the beauty of internet :)
12:50 < Trooem> you can pull up a tent in mountains of korea and call it a office. people would come.
12:50 < fenn> ybit: if we say "florence" they will think Italy
12:50 < ybit> Trooem: almost what i'm planning here
12:50 < Trooem> this place has it's advantages when it comes to bot outsourcing but...... other than that. useless.
12:51  * ybit hugs CIA-32 
12:51  * CIA-32 hugs ybit
12:51 < fenn> bot abuse!
12:51 < Trooem> no im not talking botnet dont worry
12:51 < Trooem> i dont spam
12:51  * fenn abuses CIA-32 
12:51 < ybit> i didn't rub it inappropriately.. yet
12:51 < katsmeow-afk> botnet != spam
12:51 < Trooem> talking different type of macro bots
12:52 < Trooem> just to make the data entry work for me
12:52 < Trooem> or at least make the outsourcers cheaper
12:52 < Trooem> i just figured out how to do that few months ago
12:52 < Trooem> while playing that stupid game on facebook, farmville
12:52 < Trooem> i got fed up clicking the damn yards
12:52 < fenn> what sort of data entry?
12:52 < Trooem> hmm
12:53 < Trooem> what to tell you 
12:53 < Trooem> trying not to reveal myself
12:53 < Trooem> haha
12:53 < Trooem> there are BUNCH 
12:53 < Trooem> of different data entry work
12:53 < fenn> it's all already on a computer, so you aren't reading forms or something
12:53 < Trooem> actually you do
12:53 < ybit> my #1 concern about forming this org. is finding people interested in it, if it's just me and family members and friends signing off as board members, i'm fucked. probably need to find some bio and chem students from the uni interested in this type of stuff
12:53 < Trooem> there is a limit to what the computer can handle, and you need human eyes
12:53 < kanzure> ybit: why are you doing something separate?
12:53 < kanzure> do you not like me? :(
12:54 < Trooem> brb
12:54 < ybit> no no, i just have 5 acres of land
12:54 < kanzure> in the middle of nowhere
12:54 < ybit> and your point? :)
12:55  * kanzure fixed git-import-folder
12:55 < kanzure> terrible documentation
12:55 < ybit> the only way to make decent money is through a) finishing school and working in a lab or b) going after some of these open-innovation prizes
12:56 < ybit> and then forming a npo/npo/business on the land
12:56 < ybit> i can start building now, but it will take a few years
12:56 < katsmeow-afk> on the other paw, i am so pissed at this section of his 3rd world site, i'll be burning my place down after leaving it
12:57 < fenn> does creating new facebook accounts for my internet marketing schemes count as "role playing game"?
12:58 < katsmeow-afk> when everything you do is enforced by some one else's rules, it's all role playing
12:58 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: or you could just give it to me :)
12:58 < katsmeow-afk> ybit, you would not like it here, i think
12:58 < ybit> the materials you don't need that is
12:59 < ybit> i have access to trucks and trailers to haul just about anything
12:59 < Trooem> :)
12:59 < katsmeow-afk> you cannot use this place as a turcking hub, it's not level enough
12:59 < Trooem> i want an A.I so bad
12:59 < Trooem> LOL
12:59 < Trooem> im so childish
12:59 < ybit> ..don't we all have access to this stuff, but i mean, i'll probably only have to pay gas as opposed to renting fees
13:00 < Trooem> i don't know what intelligence means
13:00 < Trooem> you raised a good point i wasn't thinking of
13:00 < katsmeow-afk> Trooem, look deep into my,,, umm,, putr lab down the hallway
13:00 < katsmeow-afk> "pay gas" ?
13:00 < ybit> yeah, pay for the gas to get there
13:00 < fenn> katsmeow-afk: what do you do with your AI anyway?
13:00 < Trooem> i guess there is no way of knowing where and how intelligence is forming even though you may connect batches of neurons
13:00 < Trooem> or something
13:01 < katsmeow-afk> fenn, atm i stay up til 5am wondering why th ehell both my ubuntu boxes are slower than win3.1 on a 286
13:01 < fenn> it's the desktop effects
13:02 < fenn> and not enough ram, probably
13:02 < katsmeow-afk> i turned off effects, it still takes concentration to click a window close 'X' and then minutes for it to actually close
13:02 < katsmeow-afk> took 20 min last nite to redraw desktop icons
13:02 < fenn> that's seriously broken
13:02 < katsmeow-afk> 512meg ram on a 2.6hz p4
13:03 < katsmeow-afk> the other ubuntu is faster, but still 2x as slow as the slowest winxp box
13:03 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: because ubuntu has too much crap installed
13:03 < fenn> look at top, ps -ef, lsof
13:03 < katsmeow-afk> k, soon as it is done "upgrading"
13:04 < ybit> if you are using 286, you'll need something more modular such as debian, arch or gentoo
13:04 < fenn> it's not a 286
13:04 < katsmeow-afk> ybit, i am not using a 286
13:04 < ybit> oic
13:05 < Trooem> kanzure what are you upto?
13:05 < Trooem> what do you plan on doing in the future?
13:05 < katsmeow-afk> i wass hoping nix was faster, so i could better use the puters sitting around that are under 2ghz, but it might take the rest of the year to even get it installed :-/
13:06 < kanzure> Trooem: i'm using skdb to build transhuman tech
13:06 < Trooem> ok...
13:06 < Trooem> hmm
13:06 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: htop is pretty as well: http://ybit.ath.cx/images/htop.png
13:07 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: it can hog less resources if you are careful what you install and run, but you are ultimately limited by your hardware, but you know this
13:07 < Trooem> let me know if you guys have a deal in mind. you know what i want and all...
13:08 < ybit> what do you want? 
13:08 < fenn> ybit: what she described isn't "too much crap installed", it was something broken
13:08 < Trooem> longevity!
13:08 < Trooem> ROFL
13:08 < kanzure> Trooem: we could make something for you
13:08 < ybit> ah
13:08 < kanzure> but i need money so that i don't have to go to school etc.
13:08  * ybit didn't read 
13:09 < ybit> :02 < katsmeow-afk> i turned off effects, it still takes concentration to click a window close 'X' and then minutes for it to actually close
13:09 < kanzure> right now my time is split down the middle
13:09 < ybit> 13:02 < katsmeow-afk> took 20 min last nite to redraw desktop icons
13:09 < Trooem> hmm
13:09 < fenn> Trooem: the biggest things you can do for longevity: eat healthy, fast regularly, stop smoking, get regular exercise, don't live in a warzone
13:09 < Trooem> yeah
13:10 < katsmeow-afk> se,, this is what bugs me, at the speed these are running, this is a useless deal , a waste of time, effort , and money:
13:10 < katsmeow-afk> Dell Dimension 2400 Desktop Computer  
13:10 < katsmeow-afk> Specifications, Programs: 	Xubuntu OS, 384 RAM, 40GB Hard Drive, Pentium 4 2.66 GHz, CD RW, 5 USB
13:10 < katsmeow-afk> This computer comes fully loaded, tested, and ready-to-go with the Linux-based Ubuntu operating system
13:10 < katsmeow-afk> $28 + S&H
13:10 < Trooem> wonder if aubrey is going to get the SENS approach working some day
13:10 < Trooem> how much would they need...
13:10 < fenn> katsmeow-afk: that should be plenty to run ubuntu.. maybe more ram would be good but it should work fine
13:10 < katsmeow-afk> or this for $11 : Dell Dimension 2350 Pentium 4 1.8 GHz 512 Ram Desktop PC. Please note that this computer has a 1.8 GHz processor, 512 RAM, onboard video display, CD-RW drive
13:11 < kanzure> Trooem: they have started doing a lot more research, yes
13:11 < katsmeow-afk> but that puter, running winxp, is plenty fast
13:11 < Trooem> great i'm sure they'll do something in next 10 years
13:12 < Trooem> i gotta get ready to hop into the opportunity they have...
13:12 < ybit> 13:10 < katsmeow-afk> Specifications, Programs: IXubuntu OS, 384 RAM, 40GB Hard Drive, Pentium 4 2.66 GHz, CD RW, 5 USB
13:12 < ybit> where?
13:12 < Trooem> so fenn studied molecular biology
13:12 < ybit> i want it
13:12 < Trooem> kanzure, what do you major in?
13:12 < katsmeow-afk> it's broken, it takes too long to DO anything
13:12  * ybit is guessing the ram can be upgraded, will want to look at it
13:12 < kanzure> manufacturing engineering and design (it's a subspecialty of mechanical engineering)
13:12 < Trooem> would you quit school if you were making a lot of money?
13:12 < katsmeow-afk> the ram can be
13:12 < kanzure> Trooem: yes
13:12 < kanzure> i would put school on hold
13:12 < Trooem> you don't care for a degree?
13:12 < kanzure> not really
13:12 < Trooem> oh on hold
13:13 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: then i want it, that's twice as fast as the current machine
13:13 < fenn> degrees are only useful for getting a job
13:13 < katsmeow-afk> it's got two slots, you can put 333/400 DDR into it, not DDR2 or DDR3 tho
13:13 < kanzure> if i'm making money why would i need a degree?
13:13 < Trooem> if i pay you, would you help me cheat through school?
13:13 < fenn> why do you want a degree?
13:13 < katsmeow-afk> sheepskins impress
13:13 < fenn> impress who?
13:13 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: well that's lame, but that's what this comp has as well, but it'r process speed is 1.1ghz or something like that
13:13 < Trooem> because of my peers. that's all there is to it. koreans are insane.
13:13 < katsmeow-afk> sheepskin readers, personell depts
13:13 < kanzure> Trooem: it's a possibility but honestly i think i could just tutor you and you could learn more
13:14 < Trooem> all they do is measure people by their degree.
13:14 < fenn> i don't understand why you would care what stupid people think
13:14 < katsmeow-afk> stupid people have money
13:14 < Trooem> kanzure: i'll hold on that offer and think deeply about it seriously.
13:14 < kanzure> okay.
13:14 < Trooem> katsmeow: yeah i'm stupid. what's it to you.
13:14  * katsmeow-afk regets the url for ybit
13:15 < katsmeow-afk> errr, Trooem, that's not what i said 
13:15 < Trooem> ok
13:16 < katsmeow-afk> [13:15] <fenn> i don't understand why you would care what stupid people think ; [13:16] <katsmeow-afk> stupid people have money  ; that is, you need money to live on earth, and one soruce is stupid people who read diploma
13:16 < kanzure> Trooem: we can discuss it in more detail. give it some thought.
13:16 < fenn> katsmeow-afk: well.. going on my assumption that degrees are only good for getting a job, i don't see why someone with money would want a degree
13:17 < fenn> but apparently they are also good for getting more money? or something else?
13:17 < Trooem> kanzure: yeah i'll be thinking deeply about it. by next year, i need to prepare for admission into a uni, but i can probably handle the high school courses (which i need to upgrade) but not the uni. i've got the cheating tools, in which you can sit at your home and see my exams, send me what i need to write down etc. LOL.
13:17 < fenn> i mean nobody is throwing money at me because i have a degree
13:17 < katsmeow-afk> this is a circular discussion with misunderstandings i did not intend
13:17 < Trooem> but yes, cheating may not be a good way to go through 4 years of uni.
13:19 < fenn> the town i lived in the last decade or so has the highest concentration of unemployed PhD's in the midwest
13:19 < fenn> they are all doing stuff like working in a grocery store or waiting tables
13:19 < fenn> it's absurd
13:19  * fenn blames the energy vortex
13:20  * katsmeow-afk wonders if it's because the sheer numbers of grads with no real life experience is polluting the market
13:21 < Trooem> yeah probably..
13:21 < Trooem> no real life experience. school is so protected from outside.
13:21 < Trooem> not that i have much experience..
13:21 < fenn> there was no job market at all.. main employer there was the university and the elevator factory
13:21 < kanzure> "ELEVATOR FACTORY: because what goes up must come down."
13:22 < fenn> all the limestone quarries went out of business
13:22 < katsmeow-afk> importing Italian limestone is cheaper
13:22 < fenn> who the hell knows
13:22 < katsmeow-afk> i cannot get sperical bearings made in the usa, but a co in India will do it, and for cheaper
13:23 < katsmeow-afk> it's nuts
13:24 < fenn> bearings actually :)
13:24 < katsmeow-afk> only thing cheaper than buying from India is making them myself,, tho China may be cheaper, i seem to have a language barrier
13:24 < fenn> we lost our bearings
13:24 < katsmeow-afk> greed
13:26 < katsmeow-afk> store down the street tries to sell me $300 body grinders, when i can buy $20 from China, and am pleased with the $20 ones, but the usa oem would rather go bankrupt than sell decent stuff for $20
13:27 < katsmeow-afk> really, a machine makes all the components, a human assembles them in 2 minutes (30/hour), a machine boxes them up, and the oem process is done, i don't see the $300 worth of anything in there
13:30 < ybit> the company trying to offer benefits such as health insurance to its employees?
13:30 < katsmeow-afk> i dunno, but the labor cost is so small, why not throw that in too?
13:31 < katsmeow-afk> at 30 units an hour, 240 a day, tack on a dollar per unit for $250/day in health coverage, ok
13:31 < katsmeow-afk> see, the math for a $300 body grinder just does not work
13:32 < katsmeow-afk> drat, bot just found another 650 urls it needs
13:32 < fenn> $300 is a holdover from when tools actually cost money (labor) to make
13:33 < fenn> in 1930 it was rare for a "handyman" to own a power tool
13:33  * katsmeow-afk nods
13:33 < ybit> then there's taxes on the business itself, it's property, and more benefits to cover, vacation, sick-leave, etc.
13:33 < fenn> same reason people still earn the same wages they did in 1970, because it's what the assholes who are screwing everyone over can get away with
13:34 < ybit> and the bills to run the building itself
13:34 < ybit> $300 may still be too much, but how much business do they get? can they sell enough to maintain their standard of living? that's where it comes into play, the workers have to pay for themselves and their kids
13:35 < fenn> we already went over the fact that the labor doesn't cost very much per item
13:36 < fenn> the $300 die grinder is actually made in the same factory as the chinese crap, it just has better quality control so it seems higher quality
13:36 < katsmeow-afk> ybit, at $1 per aseembled unit, they can get $30/hr, and at $1 per unit, they get nearly $10k paid towards insurance per month, is that not enough?!?
13:36 < ybit> how do you figure this katsmeow-afk? fenn, when was this? i missed it :-\
13:37 < fenn> "human assembles them in 2 minutes, (30/hour), a machine boxes them up, and the oem process is done"
13:37 < ybit> oh crap, my stiry fry is about to burnt, brb.
13:37 < katsmeow-afk> and he misses it again
13:38 < fenn> "house on fire, brb"
13:38 < katsmeow-afk> i once did "tornado, brb....... i hope"
13:38 < katsmeow-afk> i slid down the stairs to the cellar, it ripped all the siding off one side of the house
13:39 < katsmeow-afk> lotta trees came down
13:39 < katsmeow-afk> puter was fine 
13:44 < Trooem> anyone know how i can buy this? or make one?
13:44 < Trooem> zerona
13:44 < Trooem> LOL
13:45 < Trooem> http://www.myzerona.com/
13:45 < Trooem> weight loss low laser device
13:46 < katsmeow-afk> "eight-mile-long plume of TCE within the Ogallala Aquifer"
13:48 < Trooem> is stem cell research generally an undergrad program at universities or... do you need to get a degree on something else first?
13:48 < Trooem> like biochemistry?
13:49 < fenn> yeah you need to get an undergrad first
13:49 < Trooem> i wonder what it takes to get into a really prestigious school like MIT or yale or something
13:49 < Trooem> oh
13:49 < Trooem> shucks
13:49 < Trooem> didn't know that
13:50 < Trooem> i guess biochem must be it
13:50 < fenn> all bio undergrad programs are boring and equally useless
13:50 < Trooem> is molecular biology an undergrad program?
13:50 < Trooem> yeah... i know i just want a degree...
13:50 < fenn> probably not.. it wasn't at IU
13:50 < fenn> my degree is actually microbiology
13:50 < Trooem> oh
13:51 < fenn> they have a new 'biotech' program though so maybe it's changing
13:51 < fenn> basically it depends on what school
13:51 < Trooem> i see
13:51 < Trooem> would it be impossible to enter and graduate from a place like MIT?
13:51 < fenn> i have no idea
13:51 < fenn> ask someone who goes to MIT
13:52 < Trooem> all human confined limits are we so different. haha..
13:53 < Trooem> so are you guys going to go ahead with the skdb project?
13:53 < Trooem> can you please tell me how this is going to affect bioinformatic communities?
13:54 < fenn> i've been working on it for about a year and apparently i'm giving a talk about it in two months, so yah looks like it..
13:54 < ybit> lol
13:54 < ybit> It's worth noting that the poor person who asked the original question
13:54 < ybit> -- about the legality (presumably in the US) of an independent group
13:54 < ybit> administering anesthetics to mice -- dropped out of the thread about 3
13:54 < ybit> weeks ago.
13:54 < fenn> "bioinformatics" is more about data analysis
13:55 < ybit> i'm still there, just idling as usual
13:55 < fenn> threads last too long on diybio
13:56 < Trooem> fenn: do you think biochemistry is the single most important thing one needs to learn as fundamentals in order to engage in stem cells?
13:56 < fenn> Trooem: skdb is not about doing original research, it's about aggregating what we already know into a usable format. synbio simply doesn't have enough information to go on at this point
13:56 < Trooem> i see
13:56 < Trooem> i guess it applies for mechanical engineering related principles...
13:57 < Trooem> open design CAD stuff
13:57 < fenn> mechanical enginering is a lot easier to see what went wrong
13:57 < Trooem> basically rapid prototyping package
13:57 < ybit> my last message was actually 2 months ago o.O
13:58 < fenn> there's a lot more to mechanical engineering than "rapid prototyping"
13:59 < fenn> oddly it's the simple stuff that is hard.. like how do you represent a bolt
13:59 < fenn> or what is a color
13:59 < fenn> the professor likes to use 'what is the purpose of a spring' as his example
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14:01 < fenn> it can even out shock loads in a car suspension, or return a system to its starting state, or provide a constant friction force to regulate motion, or or or
14:02 < Trooem> sounds complicated
14:04 < katsmeow-afk> a spring is a coiled torque storage device
14:05 < katsmeow-afk> VW beatles had uncoiled ones in the rear :-)
14:05 < fenn> beatles had leaf springs?
14:06 < katsmeow-afk> no
14:06 < fenn> anyway a coil spring is just one type of spring
14:06 < katsmeow-afk> they had spring steel rods , non-coiled springs
14:06 < fenn> any device that behaves as F = -kx can be substituted
14:10 < katsmeow-afk> if you find a car with a anti-sway bar, and fix the center of the rod to the frame, you could possibly remove that axle's suspension springs,  tho the anti-swap bar isn't optomised for much travel
14:10 < Trooem> fenn: can you sequence DNA and all that should you have equipments? you know what to go for and mix in genes and all that jazz?
14:10 < katsmeow-afk> err, anti-sway
14:10 < Trooem> i have no idea what i'm talking about but if you know what i mean
14:11 < Trooem> DIYbio can you guys follow it?
14:11 < Trooem> wonder what it takes to learn and follow all this.
14:11  * katsmeow-afk is into other things
14:11 < katsmeow-afk> and atm, i need to be outside to be into them
14:11 < katsmeow-afk> bbl
14:12 < fenn> Trooem: i know how DNA sequencing works, cluster analysis, sequence alignment etc
14:12 < fenn> do you mean synthesis? like genetic engineering stuff?
14:12 < Trooem> yes
14:12 < Trooem> say to make a new cell
14:12 < Trooem> which has mixes of different genes
14:12 < Trooem> through...... electropolation?
14:12 < Trooem> i dont know lol
14:13 < fenn> there's a lot of details you don't know you have to know until it messes up
14:13 < fenn> so i guess i don't know
14:13 < fenn> but i think i do
14:13 < fenn> make sense?
14:13 < Trooem> yeah i'm hearing, if you had the equipments
14:13 < Trooem> and the testing results-
14:13 < fenn> in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice
14:13 < Trooem> you can complete it
14:13 < Trooem> in theory. haha yeah.
14:14 < Trooem> i guess brillance is overshadowed by money as always
14:14 < Trooem> tee hee hee
14:14 < fenn> anyway if i had anything i wanted from invitrogen catalog and a couple years i could probably whip up something interesting
14:14 < Trooem> invitrogen catalogue must be a list of tools you use to sequence DNA and all that
14:15 < Trooem> nice
14:15 < fenn> always wanted to make a pesticide resistant dandelion that expressed THC (the active ingredient of marijuana)
14:15 < fenn> then spread the seeds over courthouse lawns everywhere
14:15 < Trooem> everyone in politics would be high
14:15 < Trooem> lol
14:15 < fenn> oh, and add GFP too, so you can identify them
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14:16 < Trooem> so i guess i gotta learn biochem in order to understand biology in general
14:16 < Trooem> wow
14:16 < Trooem> thats a lot of learning in chemistry
14:16 < fenn> it's good to have a ground up understanding of complex systems
14:16 < fenn> otherwise you get lost in magical thinking
14:17 < Trooem> ic put yourself down to earth by looking at complicated stuff 
14:17 < Trooem> got it
14:17 < Trooem> lol
14:17 < drazak> kanzure: yeah of the 80 some dishes I've done culture with 2 60mm dishes got some budding yeast
14:17 < drazak> not the end of the world
14:17 < fenn> no i mean if you don't understand how the simple stuff works, how can you possibly try to understand the complex things?
14:17 < fenn> chemistry is simple
14:17 < Trooem> ok
14:17 < fenn> biology is made from chemistry
14:18 < Trooem> is there physics and mathematics in molecular or synbio?
14:18 < Trooem> i dont want to learn those
14:18 < fenn> not enough
14:18 < Trooem> so if you know none of it, you can go through it anyway?
14:18 < Trooem> nice
14:18 < fenn> i had to take physics for dummies
14:19 < fenn> it was useless
14:19 < fenn> there ought to be a class on 'how to check your work'
14:19 < Trooem> i think i'll just stick to chemistry related things...
14:19 < Trooem> no need to waste time understanding physics and realize synbio dont need them haha
14:20 < fenn> teach about units, error analysis, numerical methods, all that fun stuff
14:20 < Trooem> they should make that stuff into a game
14:20 < Trooem> 3d game
14:20 < Trooem> like doom 3d
14:20 < Trooem> all the learning.
14:20 < fenn> like FoldIt?
14:20 < Trooem> dont know what that is
14:20 < fenn> it's a biology game about protein folding
14:20 < Trooem> i mean, you gotta pass a exam in order to pass the stage,
14:20 < Trooem> get upto next level,
14:21 < Trooem> and the PDA's in the games reveal what you need to study
14:21 < Trooem> lol
14:21 < ybit> Trooem: http://fold.it
14:21 < fenn> yeah i agree, school would be more fun if it were a video game
14:21 < Trooem> sounds good
14:21 < Trooem> no drama or suspense in studies, people with attention deficit disorders can never learn
14:21 < ybit> video games are lame, i just want the info uploaded when needed :P
14:21 < fenn> not going to happen
14:21 < Trooem> make it focus with a storyline and amazing graphics, people would want to study aye. lol
14:21 < ybit> 14:21 < Trooem> no drama or suspense in studies, people with attention deficit disorders can never learn
14:22 < ybit> bah
14:22  * ybit is diagnosed adhd
14:22 < Trooem> oh sorry
14:22 < fenn> ybit: everyone builds their own unique mental model of the universe.. this is reflected in the structure of their brain
14:22 < ybit> 14:22 < Trooem> oh sorry
14:22 < ybit> lol, don't be
14:22 < fenn> ybit:  the only way knowledge uploading could ever work is if everyone thought exactly the same way
14:23 < Trooem> just saying it would increase concentration in today's internet age. where people browse through info rather than reading it in detail
14:23 < ybit> i'm thinking more of facts, algos, and metadata
14:23 < Trooem> everything is so visual i like it
14:23 < fenn> why not just use a book
14:23 < fenn> er, that was to ybit
14:23 < ybit> nothing wrong with that, it's just a little time consuming
14:24 < fenn> there's a huge difference between knowing something and having rapid access to it
14:24 < ybit> i think you are referring to the diff of knowledge and exp
14:24 < fenn> most people don't know anything though.. they just store facts in their brain
14:24 < fenn> no i'm referring to packing vs mapping
14:25 < Trooem> asian education = packing
14:25 < Trooem> western education = mapping
14:25 < fenn> Trooem: you only say that because you're asian
14:25 < Trooem> why you see so less nobel prize winners in asia
14:25 < Trooem> if you see people studying here,
14:25 < Trooem> you'd know too
14:26 < ybit> oic, mapping, slightly diff from exp
14:26 < Trooem> i mean they study like 10 hours a day
14:26 < Trooem> and get no real results
14:26 < Trooem> it's just bullshit learning
14:26 < fenn> i've noticed westerns admire asian culture more than asians, and asians admire western culture more than westerners.. blah
14:26 < Trooem> they have no abstract thought
14:26 < fenn> familiarity breeds contempt
14:27 < Trooem> in reality, asians have petty skills generally speaking. more 'rounded' with general information and overall skills,
14:27 < Trooem> but nothing they 'master'
14:27 < Trooem> is in their culture-
14:27 < Trooem> hence no nobel prizes
14:27 < Trooem> there is a limit to their information,
14:27 < Trooem> in their language as well
14:27 < Trooem> everything up to date is in english too
14:27 < Trooem> haha
14:27 < fenn> yeah
14:27 < Trooem> not to mention the access to that information 
14:28 < fenn> as much as english sucks, it's the most complete language (that's why it's so hard to learn)
14:28 < Trooem> in asia, uni is the only place where you can learn
14:28 < Trooem> so people naturally think degree is the best thing in the world
14:28 < ybit> there is something called the internet..
14:28 < Trooem> and it's mostly english
14:28 < fenn> i'm a fan of "just in time learning"
14:28 < Trooem> if you see korean sites, it's bullshit info everywhere
14:29 < Trooem> what is that fenn?
14:29 < fenn> the procedure is as follows: go out and do something you dont know how to do.. then figure out what you need to learn in order to do it
14:29 < Trooem> is that a group of something?
14:29 < Trooem> i got problems with that equation
14:29 < fenn> then do it again, and succeed this time :)
14:29 < Trooem> i fear new things and sticking to it
14:29 < Trooem> i get so hollow- lonely when i study
14:30 < Trooem> i can't stand the silence
14:30 < Trooem> lol
14:30 < fenn> talk to people who know what you want to learn
14:30 < Trooem> if only i can motivate myself consistantly
14:30 < Trooem> like having someone force-feeding me with information
14:30 < fenn> well, that's difficult for the person force-feeding
14:30 < Trooem> tutoring perhaps
14:31 < Trooem> hence why i need to pay up
14:31 < Trooem> i wouldn't mind if they do their job
14:31 < Trooem> but rarely people would want to spend 8 hours a day
14:31 < Trooem> lol
14:31 < Trooem> which is the rate i want to learn
14:31 < fenn> take it slow.. you aren't going to die of old age before you need to learn quantum mechanics
14:31 < ybit> re: everything in english, Trooem, http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/위키백과:대문 http://google.com/translate and http://google.ko.kr might be some of your best friends then... 
14:32 < ybit> btw, how did you find the building brains page?
14:32 < fenn> english language wikipedia is still the best
14:32 < Trooem> ybit who are you talking to? me?
14:32 < ybit> hmm.. does this adl comp not support foreign characters?
14:33 < fenn> probably doesn't have korean fonts installed
14:33 < ybit> Trooem, yeah, i was wondering how you found building brains page
14:33 < Trooem> i speak english ok. rest of the korea is in peril though
14:33 < Trooem> hmm i dont know it wasnt in the search engines i dont think
14:33 < Trooem> i must have.... stumbled on it
14:33 < Trooem> inside the website
14:33 < Trooem> why?
14:34 < ybit> just curious
14:34 < Trooem> was this confidential information?
14:34 < Trooem> lol
14:34 < Trooem> did kanzure write all that?
14:34 < fenn> the internet is a small world
14:34 < ybit> yeah
14:34 < Trooem> wow pretty good analysis
14:34 < ybit> not sure if there quotes in there, but aside from that, it's kanzure 
14:34 < fenn> literally speaking, it's a small world network
14:35 < fenn> (which is a type of network structure)
14:35 < fenn> but i meant the social structure, which is also a small world network
14:35  * fenn stops babbling
14:36 < Trooem> brb
14:39 < fenn> i wonder if it's possible to go to a purely random web page
14:39 < fenn> or at least something random in google's map
14:41 < Trooem> not sure
14:41 < Trooem> webferret.com?
14:41 < Trooem> no that's just list of search engine queries
14:42 < Trooem> what is the goal of http://heybryan.org/ ?
14:42 < Trooem> isn't it just revealing lot of information to others?
14:42 < Trooem> is that a good thing to you personally?
14:42 < Trooem> or is it a waste of time?
14:43 < Trooem> to be making a archive like this
14:45 < fenn> aha
14:45 < fenn> http://random.yahoo.com/fast/ryl/
14:45 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-90_Orlyonok http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_H-4_Hercules http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2200021317530929051#
14:46 < ybit> one day...
14:46 < Trooem> fenn: that's cool
14:46 < fenn> Trooem: what's the purpose of a personal home page? or what's the purpose of writing down summaries and linkdumps?
14:46 < ybit> i'll let katsmeow-afk and Phreedom build theirs first
14:47 < fenn> boats are lame.. i want a flying saucer
14:47 < Trooem> fenn: i've always found that facinating
14:47 < Trooem> why show yourself so much
14:47 < ybit> fenn: you should upgrade to starship
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14:47 < Trooem> you guys would like the EVE online game
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14:48 < fenn> Trooem: it's a cultural thing.. there's no a-priori reason to do things one way or another
14:48 < fenn> hackers tend to share information as much as possible
14:48 < Trooem> fenn, is kanzure and you planning on going into online marketing?
14:48 < Trooem> i guess so
14:48 < fenn> i have no idea what he's thinking, but right now i'm sort of dead in the water
14:48 < fenn> so i will look into it
14:49 < Trooem> let me know if you want to split percenta and team up i could use technically savvy experimenters..
14:49 < Trooem> i'll put you upto date.
14:49 < ybit> what do you mean dead in the water? you both are working at campbell's lab still right?
14:49 < fenn> ybit: no
14:50 < Trooem> you guys were working in a lab?
14:50 < Trooem> nice
14:50 < fenn> ybit: that was only a summer thing for me. campbell wants me to go to germany maybe, but i don't know how serious he is, or how serious he thinks i am, or something
14:50 < ybit> .de for what?
14:50 < fenn> he said 'i need to know you are able to work on the things i a interested in'
14:51 < ybit> i would take that opportunity
14:51 < fenn> i think he is taking a sabbatical
14:51 < ybit> oh, nm
14:51 < fenn> but he will be collaborating with people at university of munich
14:52 < fenn> 2000 euro/mo or so
14:52 < ybit> okay take it :)
14:52 < fenn> sounds fun.. but not if i have to use microsoft crap
14:52 < fenn> my brain is warped enough from campbellism already
14:52 < fenn> Trooem: a computer lab. it's not as cool as it sounds
14:53 < ybit> Trooem: search for "automated design lab"
14:53 < fenn> here is what i accomplished, for the most part: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/
14:53 < Trooem> kanzure deleted the roadmap,
14:53 < Trooem> damn i wanted that page
14:54 < ybit> it's not really a roadmap
14:54 < Trooem> kanzure, send me that page to save in my HDD
14:54 < Trooem> i know
14:54 < Trooem> but i liked the outlines
14:54 < Trooem> got some interesting references
14:54 < Trooem> saves me time researching
14:55 < Trooem> whats with the lego stuff
14:55 < Trooem> building bricks
14:55 < fenn> legos have standardized interfaces that can connect to other parts
14:56 < fenn> it was a test of the interface representation
14:56 < Trooem> nice.. 
14:56 < fenn> you can use the same code to say 'this plugs into a usb port' or something like that
14:56 < ybit> Trooem: if you like incomplete outlines, here's two more for you:
14:56 < ybit> http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/master/doc/proposals/trans-tech.yaml
14:56 < ybit> http://gitorious.org/diyhplus/diyhplus_org/blobs/master/todo.org
14:56 < fenn> heh
14:57 < fenn> skdb was supposed to build these things automatically
14:57 < fenn> we just havent entered the data
14:58 < ybit> nap time
14:58 < Trooem> me too gtg peace 
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15:02 < kanzure> Trooem: if you just want the degree why not get a fake degree?
15:14 < fenn> interchangeable parts http://craphound.com/?p=2340
15:16 < kanzure> how does it work?
15:16 < kanzure> why is this a toy?
15:17 < fenn> did you click on the link to the flash game?
15:17 < kanzure> no, it's flash
15:18 < fenn> every tile has 4 edges that look something like two lines some distance apart.. then they fill in the center of the tile with goofy drawings of snake and factories and stuff
15:19 < fenn> so when you move it around, it still looks like a complete drawing but in a different arrangement
15:19 < fenn> why am i bothering to explain this
15:19 < kanzure> so it's just puzzle pieces
15:20 < fenn> not really
15:20 < fenn> a puzzle only goes together one way
15:20 < fenn> this is the opposite of a puzzle
15:21 < fenn> why do you use firefox and not have flash installed?
15:21 < kanzure> i do have flash, i just want to avoid it
15:22 < kanzure> yet-another-thing-that-i-am-going-to-have-to-reverse-engineer-to-make-any-use-out-of
15:22 < fenn> would you prefer it were javascript?
15:22 < fenn> what if it's js with no permissive license?
15:23 < fenn> ultimately if it boils down to not looking at any content you can't reuse, well.. that's just silly
15:23 < fenn> because the content itself is not important, it's the idea
15:23 < kanzure> but didn't we already have this idea
15:23 < fenn> yes but you're looking for visual analogies, remember?
15:23 < kanzure> i am?
15:23 < kanzure> oh
15:23 < fenn> to communicate to stupid people who pay $120 to attend a conference
15:24 < kanzure> um, er, right
15:24 < kanzure> good job
15:24 < ybit> 15:23 < fenn> to communicate to stupid people who pay $120 to attend a conference
15:25 < ybit> well fsck you too fenn :)
15:25 < fenn> yes?
15:25 < fenn> i'm sorry you have buyer's remorse
15:25 < kanzure> ybit: we could have made you a speaker
15:29 < ybit> it's you two who have done all the coding so far, so it only makes sense that you two speak. though, if you are talking about hacking the system, is that still possible? :D
15:29 < fenn> hacking what system?
15:30 < ybit> paying $120 to see people in person
15:30 < fenn> oh, i have no idea
15:30 < fenn> i don't even know who is running the show
15:30 < ybit> jata seems to be organizing most of it
15:31  * ybit does the nap ting finally
15:31 < kanzure> todd, jata and alex seem to be running it, yes
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15:53 < fenn> well that was disappointing
15:53 < fenn> apparently these guys only made a tree for zerg: http://www.flickr.com/photos/starfeeder/2598542907/sizes/o/
16:02 < bkero> I'm at the drupalcamp pdx
16:14 < fenn> kanzure: https://dnacore.mgh.harvard.edu/synthesis/index.shtml
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17:41 < fenn> "Flashbake." This is a set of Python scripts that check your hot files for changes every 15 minutes, and checks in any changed files to a local git repository.
17:51 < kanzure> hey spurserh 
17:51 < kanzure> fenn: i'm sure vim or emacs has bindings for committing changes or something
17:51 < kanzure> too bad git/mercurial isn't made for rapid commits
17:54 < spurserh> hey
17:54 < kanzure> i wrote a long email to maria catalina about the attacama research project
17:54 < kanzure> so hopefully she'll reply and abuse me
17:55 < fenn> i've come to the conclusion that it's much harder to do stuff on earth than in orbit
17:56 < fenn> so i don't really see the advantage to doing stuff in the middle of a desert
17:57 < fenn> who am i kidding.. good night
17:57 < kanzure> night fenn
18:00 < kanzure> maria.catalina@spaceportacademy.org
18:12 < katsmeow-afk> desert : cheap land, solar power?
18:15 < katsmeow-afk> hmm, Chile
18:15 < katsmeow-afk> hight altitudes
18:15 < katsmeow-afk> lil less enthused
18:22 < kanzure> michelle bachelet is the most awesome president ever
18:22 < kanzure> don't fuck with her
18:23 < katsmeow-afk> k
18:36 < genehacker> atacama research facility?
18:36 < genehacker> the nasa thing?
18:38 < kanzure> not nasa
18:50 < genehacker> link?
19:01 < kanzure> fwd'd to open manufacturing
19:04 < drazak> are any of you knowledgeable about getting ubuntu to go though both my laptop monitor and svideo?
19:07 < kanzure> no but look at xorg.conf and xrandr
19:07 < ybit> drazak: i think it's on a case-by-case basis in that it all depends on your graphics card, #ubuntu, #xorg, #ati, #nvidia would be your best bet
19:07 < kanzure> don't try to set up a presentation 5 minutes before you're supposed to give it
19:07 < kanzure> i really screwed up my xorg.conf file :(
19:08 < ybit> or make backups at least :)
19:08 < ybit> speaking of backups, kanzurrrrre
19:08 < kanzure> monday
19:08 < ybit> diy-h+ mirror please?
19:08 < ybit> alright, alright
19:08 < kanzure> my connection is too slow
19:08 < kanzure> stop raping it :'(
19:09 < ybit> heh, i haven't raped it in ages
19:09 < drazak> kanzure: I've done that
19:09 < drazak> kanzure: but no, my mom and I want to watch Fringe on my laptop on the tv
19:10 < drazak> just gonna try a couple lines in my xorg.conf... brb
19:10 < drazak> (famous last words)
19:29 < genehacker> wait a second kanzure are you at that conference thing
19:29 < ybit> genehacker: that's bkero 
19:36 < drazak> ergh
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19:57 < Trooem> question: could you guys build a portable text scanner like the docupen, but silent, shorter in length, (about 7cm) and very thin?
19:57 < Trooem> or would that be too much hanking?
19:58 < Trooem> hacking
19:59 < genehacker> cool how much money will you pay us to do so?
20:00 < Trooem> not too sure...
20:00 < Trooem> i guess it's a service..
20:00 < Trooem> but i want to know if you guys can make it.
20:01 < Trooem> i was talking to kanzure though lol
20:04 < drazak> well kanzure, fenn, and genehacker are all within a mile of eachother
20:04 < genehacker> it's more than a mile
20:04 < genehacker> anyway, the point is we have higher priority projects than portable text scanners
20:05 < Trooem> ok. your right
20:08 < kanzure> a portable text scanner would be useful i think
20:08 < kanzure> OCR still sucks though :(
20:09 < genehacker> oh I know
20:09 < genehacker> why not use a neuron tissue culture to do the letter recognition
20:11 < drazak> uh huhh
20:12 < genehacker> neuron tissue is great at doing such things
20:12 < genehacker> though keeping something like that alive would be hard
20:14 < genehacker> it's more on the ridiculous side of doing things
20:14 < Trooem> OCR=optical character recognition? yeah..
20:15 < Trooem> better than a portable scanner, just picture the text with a digicam
20:15 < Trooem> thats probably better
20:15 < Trooem> im talking about making a cheat device lol
20:15 < Trooem> got to send the image of the exam to someone 
20:16 < Trooem> so the verdict so far is a button camera
20:16 < Trooem> but i thought it won't deliver the text very well... so i thought of a mini text scanner but...
20:16 < Trooem> that may be too revealing in the end..
20:17 < genehacker> ok well that's not really our sort of thing
20:17 < Trooem> now... if i had a ultrasonic text scanner. ROFL
20:17 < Trooem> i see ok
20:17 < Trooem> just asking suggestions then...
20:18 < Trooem> how big is your team anyway?
20:18 < Trooem> i see kanzure, fenn, genehacker so far
20:18 < genehacker> team what team?
20:18 < Trooem> skdb project
20:18 < Trooem> ?
20:18 < Trooem> no team?
20:18 < Trooem> ok nvm
20:19 < kanzure> yes it's a team
20:19 < genehacker> skdb is not intended to help people cheat on tests
20:19 < ybit> team dexter family go!
20:20 < genehacker> ok I guess you could call it a team then
20:21 < genehacker> anyway kanzure so I'm wondering, how would you go about representing an LED throwie in SKDB
20:22 < genehacker> after all it is one of the coolest projects on instructables
20:24 < Trooem> got it of course lol
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20:28 < genehacker> anyway on cheating for test, studying tends to be easier than building a miniature pen sized scanner
20:30 < Trooem> i'm not the one building it. i'm the one paying for it.. so there is a difference..
20:31 < Trooem> but then yeah, time spent waiting around would be better to use in studying. not to mention following the rest of the courses.
20:31 < Trooem> but grades are grades. marks are marks if you can learn and get the grades in such a way is sure-fire
20:31 < Trooem> why not...
20:31 < genehacker> wait did you'd pay us?
20:32 < genehacker> you'd pay us?
20:32 < kanzure> what is an LED throwie, anyway?
20:32 < genehacker> cyberpunk graffiti devices of the present
20:33 < genehacker> http://www.instructables.com/id/LED-Throwies/
20:33 < genehacker> led+battery+magnet
20:34 < genehacker> leds that stick to anything ferromagnetic
20:35 < kanzure> should be pretty easy
20:35 < kanzure> first step would be to represent LEDs
20:35 < kanzure> which are needed
20:36 < Trooem> kanzure: to answer your question above, i don't want a fake degree because it's well, fake. would a person going for the awards in science need a legitimate degree?
20:36 < Trooem> yeah that's why.
20:37 < genehacker> how would you automatically generate the diagram for that kanzure?
20:37 < genehacker> Trooem what class is this for?
20:39 < genehacker> if it's english class I'll consider it
20:40 < Trooem> sorry, it's all areas. plus i would need to pay for accomodation +rent+ monthly fee for your stand-by services
20:40 < Trooem> im thinking what the best way for is to make a deal amongst kanzure and myself or others
20:41 < Trooem> way i see it, it's a 1 on 1 type of thing
20:41 < Trooem> and...
20:41 < Trooem> everybody seems so knee-deep in their relations here
20:41 < Trooem> i dare not budge in and start a partnership
20:41 < Trooem> with 1 specific person
20:41 < Trooem> the things i do is hush-hush
20:42 < Trooem> and i need to know if i can trust 1 person not to tell the secret on others
20:42 < Trooem> and make me look like a fool
20:42 < Trooem> not talking just cheats........
20:42 < Trooem> so yes kanzure, i'm thinking deeply. your talents and interests are on par with what i am pursueing.
20:43 < Trooem> the only problem is that dedication wise, your loyalty belongs to others. :(
20:45 < Trooem> if, you could make 10k per month guaranteed, would you be interested in teaming up with myself, and myself only, and pursue same/similar goal? money/academia/science project. etc...
20:45 < Trooem> and ditch the rest.
20:45 < Trooem> no disrespect to others here.
20:45 < genehacker> did you say money?
20:45 < genehacker> sure
20:46 < Trooem> who are you genehacker, do you have a website like bryan?
20:46 < Trooem> heybryan.org ?
20:46 < Trooem> i want to know your interests and what you are capable of.
20:46 < genehacker> I prefer not to give much information about myself
20:46 < Trooem> ok nvm then
20:47 < genehacker> but seriously who are you
20:47 < genehacker> I'm confused
20:47 < Trooem> i'm not going through all that again so never you mind :(
20:47 < Trooem> way too much pessimism in everyone.
20:49 < genehacker> 10k per month for working on a science project(as in a diy DNA synthesizer?)
20:50 < genehacker> anyway a portable document scanner would be very easy to build
20:50 < genehacker> the pen approach is not the way to go about it
20:52 < Trooem> i can't answer the origination of the money :(
20:53 < Trooem> only shown to my partner
20:53 < Trooem> yeah ok
20:53 < Trooem> i was thinking about a hidden spy device though
20:53 < Trooem> like on your wrist or something
20:53 < genehacker> now you aren't part of the CIA are you?
20:53 < Trooem> guess it'd look weird if i'm suddenly scanning a exam
20:53 < Trooem> no way lol
20:54 < genehacker> it's ok if you are I'm still willing to help
20:55 < genehacker> seriously if you're going to pull out a pen out of your pocket that glows across the page, that's going to look suspicious
20:56 < Trooem> yup
20:56 < Trooem> so no glowing pen
20:56 < Trooem> attached to your wrist
20:56 < Trooem> so it looks like part of your clothing
20:56 < Trooem> completly black
20:56 < Trooem> lol
20:57 < Trooem> it would still make a sound, it would need my arm-movements
20:57 < Trooem> it would look weird
20:57 < Trooem> it was just an abstract thought never you mind.
20:57 < genehacker> that's going to look weird
20:57 < Trooem> gtg eat bbl
20:58 < genehacker> there's a much better way to do it
20:58 < genehacker> to find out, please give me large sum of money
22:11 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 27 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 27 normal]
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22:12 < genehacker> who the heck was that?
22:12 < kanzure> dunno
22:12 < genehacker> how the heck did he find skdb?
22:12 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/buildingbrains.html
22:13 < genehacker> sounds an awful lot like he's doing something very illegal
22:14 < kanzure> illegal in which country?
22:14 < genehacker> money from an undisclosed source, that's mighty suspicious
22:14 < genehacker> illegal everywhere but somalia
22:33 < katsmeow-afk> is alkyd and acrylic paint the same stuff? it's being used interchangeably in places
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23:05 < CIA-23> djangit: kanzure master * r3eda9e9 / (templates/index.html wiki/views.py): fixed up the views some more- working on subdirectories - http://bit.ly/FBtPw
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23:37 < ybit> lame: http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#USING_ANIMALS :: "Overall: Don't do this at home. Please. Stick with microorganisms and insects. Please. For the sake of the animals, for the sake of your own health, and for the sake of your research."
23:37 < ybit> maybe
23:37 < ybit> g
23:37 < ybit> huh, interesting, ctl-j == send in irssi
23:38 < ybit> anywho, get a uni involved in research, problem solved without having to worry about specifics which seem to be absent
23:39 < ybit> 21:35 <ybit> will have to make one of these things: 
23:39 < ybit> 21:35 <ybit> http://www.teamwavelength.com/products/product.asp?part=6&view=specs#tabs
23:39 < ybit> 21:36 <ybit> then the recording device: 
23:39 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/unsorted_papers/A%20portable%20microelectrode%20array%20recording%20system%20incorporating%20cultured%20neuronal%20networks%20for%20neurotoxin%20detection.pdf
23:39 < ybit> 21:37 <ybit> then the mea device mentioned in 
23:39 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/unsorted_papers/Modeling%20the%20nonlinear%20properties%20of%20the%20in%20vitro%20hippocampal%20perforant%20path-dentate%20system%20using%20multielectrode%20array%20technology.pdf
23:39 < ybit> 21:37 <ybit> _then_ i can carry out the experiment
23:39 < ybit> 21:37 <ybit> there are two papers on construction of the mea, that paper isn't it,  it's the actual work i'm trying to replicate
23:39 < ybit> ^general overview of what's to take place before i get to work on mice
23:45 < katsmeow-afk> hmmmmmmmmmmm ,, for 20% phosphoric acid in water : Boiling Point: 216º C (420.8º F)
23:45 < katsmeow-afk> https://www.tinmantech.com/html/MSDS-MFR.pdf
23:50 < katsmeow-afk> ybit, where is Madison , Ala ?