--- Day changed Sun Oct 18 2009
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09:31 < Utopiah> !seen fenn
09:32 < Utopiah> do you guys want a Supybot instance? for this and publishing daily logs?
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11:15 < ybit> Utopiah: i suppose it couldn't hurt
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12:27 < kanzure> ybit: fenn and i were thinking of not sleeping. $50/night looks ok but honestly i think we could do better if we find some transhumans to sleep with.
12:28 < kanzure> ybit: togetic seems to be down? 71.228.183.181
12:28 < kanzure> it doesn't seem to be located at ybit.ath.cx either
12:28 < Utopiah> kanzure: do you have a link to fenn sleeping/activity patterns? iirc he even made colorful visuals
12:29 < kanzure> QuantumG is still around and posts frequently to slashdot. percent thinks i'm the devil and will kill all humans indirectly (and "perhaps directly")
12:29 < kanzure> i'll have to go look at the mailbox in a bit. i'm at the wrong location.
12:30 < kanzure> ybit: kottke is going to have to find some other friends, 6hr is too long
12:30 < kanzure> Utopiah: http://fennetic.net/sleep/
12:30 < Utopiah> thanks kanzure 
12:31 < kanzure> ybit: i was trying to log in to fix your #
12:31 < kanzure> skdb.core.units.UnitError: pi/2 radians: Unknown unit 'pi'
12:32 < kanzure> ybit: you should send paper requests also to getarticles@googlegroups.com, and when you get responses, forward the papers to papers@postbiota.org
12:39 < drazak> kanzure: do people not read the most recent posts before the post to diybio?
12:39 < drazak> I repeated 4 times that GFP was a bad idea
12:43 < kanzure> in general they do not read
12:43 < kanzure> (anything)
12:43 < kanzure> eric hunting just repeated pepakura information from over a year ago from open manufacturing, for instance
12:43 < kanzure> that's something he should have known about back then
12:48 < drazak> that Cathal guy seems to be pretty on top of everything
12:48 < drazak> it's just some of the other moron on the list that have no fucking clue
12:48 < drazak> about anything, really
12:49 < kanzure> i can't seem to find any cheap automatic book scanners that either flip pages or take in a stack of pages. kirtas-tech.com sells one used for $100k USD (wtf)
12:49 < kanzure> my mom made a deal with me- if, in the move, i give up 4 boxes of books, she would buy me a book scanner
12:49 < drazak> get her to spring for the 100k$ one then
12:49 < drazak> :P
12:50 < kanzure> no way, how is it that there's nothing cheaper on ebay?
12:50 < kanzure> i mean, even a $10k used one? really, nothing?
12:51 < kanzure> iirc, xerox machines have this feeder-paper-bay for bulk throughput scanning
12:53 < kanzure> http://www.davidco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9328 suggests an industrial paper cutter (400 pg/cut)
12:54 < kanzure> lots of those on ebay: http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=industrial+paper+cutter&_sacat=See-All-Categories
12:56 < kanzure> and then a pass-through scanner. how do you tell how big the input bay is? (how many pages it can hold without snapping in half or not accepting more paper)?
13:07 < ybit> oh yeah, i forgot percent became a defender of dumbland
13:08 < ybit> 12:32 < kanzure> ybit: you should send paper requests also to getarticles@googlegroups.com
13:08 < ybit> ah forgot i was on that group
13:08 < ybit> why not the lego book scanner?
13:10 < ybit> s/dumbland/non-free&open land?
13:10 < ybit> something like that
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13:47 < ybit> kanzure: so what's this sabbatical you and fenn have been on? :-)
13:47 < kanzure> moved down the street
13:58  * kanzure suspects ybit isn't metric
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15:05 < drazak> kanzure: what time is it in texas?
15:06 < ybit> 3:02 drazak 
15:06 < ybit> cst like mine
15:07 < ybit> er, 3:09 my clocked isn't synced :\
15:08 < genehacker> it is 3:11 pm
15:08 < ybit> drazak: why do you ask? :-)
15:08 < drazak> because I wasn't sure if it was CST or the next one west
15:08 < ybit> genehacker: what classes are you taking this semester, just curious after you mentioned them last night.
15:09 < genehacker> are you in texas drazak?
15:09 < drazak> no
15:09 < drazak> I'm in ny
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15:10 < drazak> but I might go to rice or that school you guys are at
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15:10 < genehacker> ybit I'm taking hard ones
15:10 < genehacker> the lab for one is insane
15:15 < genehacker> as in it takes 48 hrs of work to complete a lab assigment
15:16 < ybit> genehacker: okay, so what courses are you taking? :P
15:16 < ybit> genehacker: drazak is in buffalo, ny
15:16 < genehacker> why do you ask?
15:16 < ybit> because i'm curious
15:16 < genehacker> ok
15:17 < genehacker> materials processing, statistics, fluids, materials processing lab, and the horror of the old ones
15:18 < ybit> hehe
15:18 < genehacker> I have omitted some though
15:19 < ybit> that's fine, probably just basics or something like that
15:19 < ybit> those are what i was interested in
15:20 < ybit> i've never been able to handle more than 16hrs
15:20 < genehacker> I don't think it's more than 16hrs
15:20 < genehacker> yet it's still insane
15:20 < ybit> i'm sure it is
15:21  * ybit is looking for multimachine parts list, about to head to the junkyard and round up most of them for my exercise today
15:22 < genehacker> a working multimachine?
15:22 < genehacker> impossible
15:22 < ybit> surely
15:22 < genehacker> doe the multimachine just bend stuff?
15:22 < ybit> http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/13335163/homepage/name/homepage.jpg?type=sn makes me think it exists
15:23 < ybit> "The MultiMachine is an accurate all-purpose machine tool that can be used as a metal or wood lathe, end mill, horizontal mill, drill press, wood or metal saw or sander, surface grinder and sheet metal "spinner". It can be built by a mechanic using just common hand tools. For machine construction, electricity can be replaced with "elbow grease" and all the necessary material can come from discarded vehicle parts and steel bar."d
15:25 < genehacker> http://users.telenet.be/O-tiose/images/sasquatch01.jpg
15:26 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/misc_docs/How%20to%20build%20a%20multimachine.pdf
15:35 < ybit> omfg, imagine that. http://opensourcemachine.org/the-multimachine/multimachine-video
15:36 < ybit> ..it works
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15:43 < genehacker> ok
15:43 < genehacker> then
15:43 < genehacker> good luck
15:46 < ybit> heh, thanks. i figure it's something to play around with afk
15:47 < genehacker> almost forgot
15:47 < genehacker> I learned of something amazing the other day
15:48 < genehacker> amazing software that does the impossible
15:48 < genehacker> software that does fatigue testing in software
15:54 < ybit> genehacker: link?
15:57 < ybit> or just a name of the program..
15:57 < ybit> you can't leave me hanging with "oh i have this great life-changing secret, well ttyl" :-)
15:58 < drazak> i'm leaving to go to ac/dc in a few
16:02 < ybit> A study in humans published in 2006 hints at a link between
16:02 < ybit> Parkinson's and a prolonged exposure to amphetamine in any form (not just
16:02 < ybit> that prescribed for ADHD).
16:03 < ybit> ...Before Parkinson's symptoms such as tremors and
16:03 < ybit> muscle rigidity appear, however, dopamine's function in the brain must
16:03 < ybit> decline by 80 to 90 percent, or by about twice as much as what Ricaurte and
16:03 < ybit> his colleagues saw in baboons that were drinking a more moderate dose of the
16:03 < ybit> drug. And some studies have found no connection between stimulant use and
16:03 < ybit> Parkinson's.
16:06 < genehacker> they feed in electron microscope data and it tells where an engine block will fail
16:06 < genehacker> I have no link
16:06 < genehacker> that is the problem
16:06 < genehacker> I heard about it from a friend
16:07 < genehacker> but if we could apply it to skdb it would allow skdb to do pretty much everything
16:16 < ybit> if you could get that friend to recall the name of it, that would be appreciated
16:17 < drazak> mmmm ac/dc
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16:39 < ybit> kanzure: i know you are aware of it, but maybe you have forgotten, if the $10k funding falls through, y-combinator might be an option later on, they will fund you ~$15k for a couple of months so that you can prepare to have a product ready to be presented to VCs.
16:39 < ybit> http://ycombinator.com/
16:40 < Utopiah> iirc #startups has people with Y-Combinator funding 
16:43 < ybit> thanks Utopiah 
16:45 < ybit> "Heath, everything begins at 9 am both Saturday and Sunday. There will be a
16:45 < ybit> party Saturday night. Ticket prices are still $150, but go up for each 50
16:45 < ybit> that we sell. "
16:46  * ybit will have to double the dosage of stimulants to be the least bit attentive that early 
16:46 < ybit> or at least 20mg
16:47 < ybit> drazak: enjoy that concert, represent the channel and do something nerdy 
16:58  * ybit wonders who bct, boogles, branstrom, chizu, flamoot, kanzure, ve, and zvader are.
16:58 < ybit> -kanzure
16:59 < ybit> er, s/kanzure/ kardan_ 
16:59 < branstrom> Fairly recently converted h+ wannabe from Sweden
17:00 < ybit> branstrom: we're all transhuman wannabes :) 
17:00 < ybit> branstrom: what are your research interests and hobbies?
17:01 < branstrom> I've read a lot of Dennett... Then I read On Intelligence. Then I started reading Overcoming Bias & Less Wrong.
17:01 < ybit> who here do you know? how did you hear about the channel? do you like cream with your coffee? ;)
17:02 < branstrom> I'm working on my GED to get into college and study AGI/neuroscience
17:02 < branstrom> Don't know anybody here :)
17:02 < ybit> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&ved=0CA4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.grossmont.edu%2Fbertdill%2Fdocs%2FCollegeWaste.pdf ;; "College is a Waste of Time and Money"
17:03 < branstrom> I think I found a link somewhere on a website to this channel. Coffee tastes like donkey poo.
17:03 < ybit> and yet i keep going back to it
17:04 < ybit> it, being college
17:04 < ybit> think this may be my third time to sit out for a semester
17:05 < branstrom> Interesting, I'll take a look at that article.
17:05 < ybit> let's see.. i've sat out more than that... wow, 3.5 years, total, i've sat out
17:06 < branstrom> I'm probably a good fit for college though...
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17:07 < ybit> i fit in well, just get tired of it
17:10 < kardan_> hi ybit, just found your ping but didnt get the context
17:27  * katsmeow-afk swaps out all branstrom's coffee
17:28 < branstrom> Seems to be a lot of people into DIY biology here
17:28 < ybit> diy in general
17:29 < ybit> kardan_: was just wondering who you were, research interests, hobbies, etc
17:34 -!- kardan_ is now known as kardan
17:35 < kardan> ybit: my interest is open source hardware in general: https://we.riseup.net/opensourcehardware
17:36 < kardan> we develop web applications on rails. crabgrass is one of our projects: crabgrass.riseup.net
17:38 < ybit> kanzure: http://superjared.com/entry/quick-django-benching/
17:39 < kardan> we still have an open ticket with db specifications by kanzure. unfortunately we could not implement them yet .. too many side projects
17:39 < ybit> interesting
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19:25 < branstrom> Oh, I'm coding Rails as well
19:25 < branstrom> Been toying/working with it since 2005
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21:39 < kanzure> ybit: i got your package
21:41 < ybit> o good
21:41 < ybit> you should get another one tomorrow
21:42 < ybit> they're gifts, ya know, for taking the time to do this. it's to be split with fenn even if he does give you ugly looks while backing up the stuff :P where is he btw?
21:45 < ybit> kanzure
21:49 < ybit> and uh, you might not care for one of them :P i tried to cancel the order but the warehouse had already shipped it within 2 hours of the order o.O so, um, just wing it, pretend like it was useful :P
21:50  * ybit is feeling emotiriffic
21:50 < ybit> ..ya know because of all the emoticons.. maybe i should stop making up words
21:50 < katsmeow-afk> porque why?
21:51 < ybit> ^
21:51 < katsmeow-afk> i don't know
21:51 < katsmeow-afk> you are making emoticons?
21:52 < ybit> i typed 3 of them in one line
21:52 < ybit> 21:18 <ybit> "mom i need photos for the site. buy a camera and get a tax-writeoff."  "heath, i've got a better idea, i'm about to buy one of those flip  cameras and upload videos to youtube _and_ you can take stills from  the video." 
21:52 < ybit> i laughed
21:54  * katsmeow-afk is gonna unload apache and other webservers for one she made : http://designerthinking.com/images/Euphoria/euv4webserver2.html
21:54 < katsmeow-afk> it's only for local use behind a firewall, etc etc etc, and all those caveats
21:56 < ybit> grr for having to create html and css bologna
21:57 < katsmeow-afk> i used as little as possible for the ftp views, i even used <pre></pre> to avoid css formatting if i could
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22:18 < genehacker> node quake
22:28 < drazak> I'm a little deaf
22:32 < kanzure> todo: grab  Genome evolution and adaptation in a long-term experiment with Escherichia coli
22:33 < katsmeow-afk> it's in Nature mag, i think
22:34 < katsmeow-afk> yep
22:34 < katsmeow-afk> Nature advance online publication 18 October 2009
22:36 < kanzure> there was a paper from this group from a while back about this experiment
22:36 < kanzure> it was what caused the lenski bullshit
22:36 < kanzure> anyway, anna salamon and i once schemed up a way to do this with human stem cell lines
22:36 < kanzure> so that we could do maybe 40,000 generations of selection on stem cells and then boot up the rest of the human at some future date
22:37 < kanzure> so that you don't have to actually have 40,000 generations of offspring living for at least 12+ years each
22:37 < drazak> so you want say
22:37 < drazak> 10000 passage stem cells
22:37  * drazak laughs
22:37 < drazak> glwt
22:38 < kanzure> passage?
22:38 < drazak> all immortalized cells start to deform after 500 passages
22:38 < drazak> passage is when you move the cells from one container to another
22:38 < drazak> usually after 3-6 doublings
22:38 < katsmeow-afk> i don't see how you can serialise genetic pressure and atthe same time shorten the evolution time
22:38 < kanzure> no i don't want to move them
22:38 < drazak> yes.. you do...
22:38 < kanzure> bullshit
22:38 < drazak> they will die if you don't
22:38 < kanzure> you don't even know my environment
22:38 < kanzure> i think you should stop while you're "ahead"
22:39 < drazak> go ahead and tell me
22:39 < katsmeow-afk> yea, kanzure has a fenn inhis environment!
22:39 < kanzure> no i mean there's no reason that we have to grow stem cells in a situation where we have to transfer them from plates
22:39 < kanzure> that's kind of silly for high throughput projects anyway
22:39 < kanzure> and apparently it's also silly for biological reasons too
22:39 < drazak> high throughput use large roller bottles
22:39 < kanzure> not always
22:39 < drazak> also transfering isn't what kills them
22:40 < kanzure> good night
22:40 < drazak> you don't seem to understand
22:40 < genehacker> heiflick limit?
22:40 < genehacker> hayflick
22:40 < drazak> genehacker: kind of
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22:41 < drazak> genehacker: it's a little different with stem cells
22:41 < drazak> genehacker: their chromosomes become no longer diploid
22:41 < drazak> kanzure: so how much cell culture have you actually done?
22:42 < genehacker2> now what books do I read to learn these things would probably be a better question to ask
22:46 < genehacker2> so what do you recommend?
22:46 < drazak> genehacker: a couple good biochem books
22:46 < genehacker2> ok
22:46 < drazak> I've read like 3 or 4 of them
22:46 < drazak> and I can't pick
22:47 < drazak> if you like medical biochem read stryers
22:49 < drazak> kanzure has stryers
22:49 < genehacker2> ok
22:51 < genehacker2> and these biochemistry books have this sort of information? or is this information that can only be gleaned from laboratory experience?
22:52 < drazak> well
22:52 < drazak> some of it is in there
22:53 < drazak> I have yet to find a good book on cell culture
22:53 < genehacker2> go figure
22:53 < genehacker2> it's a developing field
22:54 < drazak> most cell culture techniques haven't changed in 15 years
22:54 < genehacker2> many deformation processing techniques weren't put into a good book that compiled them for about 30 years
22:55 < genehacker2> I'll see if I can't digest stryers before moving on
22:55 < drazak> yeah
22:55 < drazak> it's big
22:55 < drazak> like 1700 page
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