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06:58 < ybit> kanzure: mind taking a look at a few links, i'm logged into adl but not seeing a download link on sd for some odd reason (probably something i overlooked)
06:58 < ybit> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THG-448XT74-F&_user=108429&_origUdi=B8CXH-4NYTYGN-4F&_fmt=high&_coverDate=12
06:58 < ybit> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B8CXH-4NYTYGN-4F&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_se
07:03 < ybit> meh, don't worry about it, just grabbed them with my uni's proxy
07:07  * ybit can't access "A scanning tunnelling microscope with a piezoelectric-driven inertial slider" though..
07:08 < ybit> grabbed the first assuming i could get the second, guess i won't assume again, and google scholar can't even find the paper
07:28 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/unsorted_papers/A%20new%20design%20of%20piezoelectric%20driven%20compliant-based%20microgripper%20for%20micromanipulation.pdf
07:28 < ybit>  "A new design of piezoelectric driven compliant-based microgripper for micromanipulation"
07:28 < ybit> also check out http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/unsorted/?C=M;O=D
07:29 < ybit> btw, why is there a google ad there o.O
07:31 < ybit> its' not the end of the world, just wondering why, who's trying to make a little extra $?
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08:20 < ybit> kanzure: do you have Computational Fluid Dynamics by John Anderson in pdf format? 
08:21 < superkuh> http://ifile.it/srln4u/computational_fluid_dynamics_1995.djvu
08:22 < superkuh> (I realize it isn't pdf, but that is not hard to fix)
08:25 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/books/Scanning%20tunneling%20micscrope.pdf
08:25 < ybit> thanks superkuh 
08:27 < Trooem> what exactly are you guys doing and what is your ultimate goal (and what is your advantages in it?)
08:27 < Trooem> ?
08:27 < Trooem> your current projects i mean.......
08:28 < Trooem> i'm waiting on my software to develop and finish up in next few days... the programmer is an asshole..
08:36 < ybit> stm software: http://gwyddion.net/ http://gxsm.sourceforge.net/ http://www.e-basteln.de/index_s.htm
08:40 < ybit> Trooem: acquiring lab equipment to build stuff and experiment outside of uni. ultimate goal is to make some type of contribution to the greater conciousness of humanity
08:40 < kanzure> Trooem: the goal is to make transhuman tech. so i've been working on skdb so that others can make the same tech too without a lot of effort.
08:41 < Trooem> ah ha! so it was all related to h+. awesome.
08:43  * ybit wants "Chemically Tunable Nanoscale Propellers of Liquids" and "Powering an Inorganic Nanodevice with a Biomolecular Motor"
08:46 < ybit> there we go:http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/unsorted/Powering%20an%20Inorganic%20Nanodevice%20with%20a%20Biomolecular%20Motor.pdf
09:55 < ybit> 11:07 < Utopiah> any FOSS eye tracking library?
09:55 < ybit> 11:09 < Utopiah> http://www.cogain.org/eyetrackers/low-cost-eye-trackers
09:55 < ybit> 11:09 < hivemind-sb> Title: COGAIN - Open source gaze tracking, freeware and low cost eye tracking (at www.cogain.org)
09:55 < kanzure> huh
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10:29 < strages> you guys heard about bildr yet?  http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/10/bildr_componentized_crowdsourced_di.html
10:35 < Utopiah> strages: have to admit that the design is excellent
10:39 < Utopiah> yet unless I missed something, it's the only thing available :-#
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10:41 < Utopiah> (cf also http://adam-meyer.com/blog/10/18/2009/spreading-the-word/ )
10:52 < kanzure>  http://bildr.org/
10:53 < kanzure> uh it doesn't seem to have anything
10:56 < kanzure> am i missing something?
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10:58 < kanzure> http://code.bildr.org/
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11:21 < kanzure> http://bildr.org/proto.html
11:21 < kanzure> ok i called him and talked with him
11:21 < kanzure> rawr you will be assimilated
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11:34 < genehacker2> are you trying to assimilate him or join the hive?
11:37 < genehacker2> seems more oriented to electronics
11:37 < genehacker2> but it might fulfill our needs
11:38 < kanzure> well if you look at code.bildr.org he's basically doing what skdb mostly already does
11:39 < genehacker2> so assimilate him into skdb or join him on bildr?
11:39 < genehacker2> so what about tooling dependencies?
11:39 < kanzure> what about them?
11:39 < genehacker2> he doesn't have that
11:39 < genehacker2> does skdb have it?
11:39 < kanzure> yeah
11:39 < kanzure> skdb is meant to be the brains behind stuff like bildr.org
11:39 < genehacker2> is it usable?
11:40 < kanzure> bildr.org isn't
11:40 < kanzure> but you can do stuff with skdb, yes
11:40 < kanzure> skdb includes a full CAD geometry kernel, remember?
11:40 < genehacker2> no
11:40 < kanzure> well.. it does.
11:41 < genehacker2> so can I make stuff in some skdb cad program?
11:41 < kanzure> no you make stuff in other CAD programs, skdb can import those CAD files
11:41 < genehacker2> ok
11:42 < genehacker2> so what else does skdb do?
11:42 < genehacker2> don't you have matweb data on there?
11:42 < kanzure> no matweb is not in skdb
11:42 < genehacker2> or materials data?
11:42 < kanzure> there is a little materials data but not a lot
11:43 < kanzure> i think there's some friction information somewhere?
11:43 < genehacker2> friction information is useless in the real world
11:44 < genehacker2> friction depends on humidity, temperature, dustiness, whether or not you have touched the pieces in contact, and many other factors
11:44 < kanzure> well you asked
11:44 < genehacker2> friction is a value that must be determined in the environment that the equipment operates in
11:44 < kanzure> just look around:
11:44 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/
11:45 < genehacker2> alloy composition of various alloys would be good to add
11:45 < kanzure> there's even a readme file to figure out what the files are all about
11:45 < genehacker2> and also heat treatment data
11:46 < genehacker2> though I am yet to find heat treatment data in a good form
11:48 < genehacker2> WHAT?
11:48 < genehacker2> you don't even have a list of various materials processing techniques in packages?
11:48 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/processes.yaml
11:50 < genehacker2> so I have a bunch of notes with formulas for various materials processing stuff in them
11:50 < genehacker2> argh
11:51 < genehacker2> your processes file is annoying
11:51 < kanzure> why?
11:51 < kanzure> you're not supposed to read it anyway.. skdb is supposed to load it up
11:51 < genehacker2> it just is
11:52 < genehacker2> I can't tell if you're using a geometry classification system
11:52 < kanzure> a what?
11:52 < kanzure> these are processes not geometries
11:53 < genehacker2> different processes can make parts of varying geometric complexity
11:53 < strages> just thought you'd all like to know about that website.  yeah it's new and doesn't have a lot but they're looking for help populating the site
11:53 < genehacker2> there are some systems for determing this
11:53 < genehacker2> anyway if you can find a good alloy composition database
11:54 < kanzure> strages: have you looked into skdb yet?
11:54 < genehacker2> I can write a little program that will calculate carbon equivalent which determines the feasibility of making something by welding
11:55 < genehacker2> I guess I could write up stuff for welding
11:55 < kanzure> how does ":carbon equivalent" determine the feasibility of making something by welding?
11:55 < genehacker2> and deformation processing
11:55 < genehacker2> which is how 80% of all metal parts are made
11:56 < genehacker2> carbon equivalent determines if the materials being welded need to be preheated and/or postheated
11:56 < genehacker2> also welding material deposition rate calculation is hard
11:57 < genehacker2> as far as I know
11:57 < genehacker2> argh
11:57 < genehacker2> in/min
11:59 < genehacker2> I think I should start on casting first though
12:00 < genehacker2> also
12:01 < genehacker2> does maintenance go under consumables?
12:02 < genehacker2> for example, a forging machine will need material removed from the compressing plates periodically to insure that the tolerances are right
12:03 < strages> kanzure: yeah.  I know they're very similar
12:46 < genehacker2> http://pastebin.com/d46376756
12:46 < genehacker2> kanzure am I doing it right?
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12:53 < ybit2> any45050298: i'm on my break right now, i was thinking about your problem, obvioulsy you have a serious saturation problem, but i can't recall the specs on the transformers, didnt' you tell me last night?
12:53 < ybit2> i'll have about 2 more hours to sit and think about it :P
13:14 < any45050298> some specs
13:15 < any45050298> been reading too
13:15 < any45050298> seems a lot of small motors, under 10hp (small??), exhibit such distortion when unloaded
13:16 < any45050298> some distort even when loaded
13:16 < any45050298> for unknown reasons, 3phase motors are worse, but care less
13:17 < any45050298> remembering what i have seen of the insides of motors, cheap 3phase motors have thinner iron on the circumference, so do very small singlephase motors
13:19 < any45050298> like the coils are inductances on electrons, i suspect the thinner iron is making "inductances" to the magnetic field, which feeds back/interacts with the other bits of the motor and the coils, and that makes a mess of the *voltage* when lightly loaded
13:19 < any45050298> if not the current when heavily loaded
13:19 < any45050298> where the displacement/slip of the rotor becomes dominant
13:19 < any45050298> however, the transformer iron shouldn't slip like a motor does
13:21 < any45050298> so iam still unsure, except http://designerthinking.com/transformers.html looks like the peak that forms when the transformer is loaded may be because the harmonic's sine-low-point is occuring at the 60hz fundamental's peak, and the load damps the harmonic
13:21 < any45050298> so the peak isn't opposed by that harmonic
13:21 < any45050298> BUT again, that load i used is resistive, it's not the voltage-clamping action that a battery charger would do
13:29 < any45050298> i need a <20v variable load good for 20amps :-/
13:30 < any45050298> maybe on a 488 buss
13:30 < any45050298> afk
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14:47 < kanzure> genehacker: not terrible 
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16:25 < ybit> any90993287: ah. well, ac or dc? i suspect you are dealing with inductive kickback, i'm actually going to be tackling that problem myself later this week at work
16:26 < ybit> kanzure: but there are plenty of how-tos on fixing the problem, here's a decent example: http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Conquering_inductive-load_demons-article-surr_phoenix_aug2007-html.aspx
16:26 < ybit> kanzure: what conclusion did you and adam meyer come to?
16:27 < ybit> adam has a name, a nice design, and appropriate marketing, nothing else though
16:34 < kanzure> ybit: we came to the conclusion that he should finish lunch first
17:51 < any90993287> kickback occurs whenthe voltage is suddenly removed, i am not removing any voltage in those traces
18:47 < ybit> any90993287: ac or dc?
18:47 < ybit> http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/engeneering_technology/surfaceanalysis112.html
18:47 < ybit> and did you check with speedevil or tetracomm?
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18:52 < any90993287> yybit, you do not know how to read a oscope?
18:52 -!- any90993287 is now known as katsmeow
18:53  * katsmeow copy/pastes from the webpage :
18:53 < ybit> katsmeow: yeah, i use them everday
18:53 < katsmeow> Transformer output waveforms
18:53 < katsmeow> These are fed with 117vac 60hz sinewaves, the o'scope is set at 20v/div.
18:53 < katsmeow> no load
18:53 < katsmeow> 	
18:53 < katsmeow> 1/2 amp resistor load
18:53 < ybit> i'm bringing the issue up in ##electronics...
18:53 < katsmeow> they are transformers, they are fed with sinewaves, and there's harmonices,, how do you get dc?
18:54 < ybit> oh
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19:01 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/books/Surface_Analysis_with_STM_and_AFM.pdf
19:15 < katsmeow> ybit, thos people are guessing out their asses
19:17 < katsmeow> and picking at me over and over to see if i'll change my answers?!
19:18 < katsmeow> shit
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19:44 < ybit> http://www.almaden.ibm.com/vis/stm/gallery.html
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20:12 < ybit> http://www.physorg.com/news128600196.html :: "Are nanobots on their way?" (2006)
20:12 < ybit> "AFM is the most commonly employed approach for top-down nanomanipulation research, explains Gorman. However, AFM suffers from a number limitations, as the nanoparticles stick together during manipulation and cannot be lifted from the substrate. This means that nanodevices constructed using AFM may be aesthetically pleasing and provide insights into what might be achievable but it cannot build practical nano machines."
20:12 < ybit> ""Our micro-scale nanoassembly system is designed for real-time imaging of the nanomanipulation procedures using a scanning electron microscope," explains Gorman, "and multiple nanoprobes can be used to grasp nanostructures in a cooperative manner to enable complex assembly operations." Importantly, once the team has optimized their design they anticipate that nanoassembly systems could be made for around $400 per chip at present costs. This is thousan
20:18 < ybit> paper mentioned in article: http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/meso_micro/GormanIMECE2006_16190.pdf
20:18 < ybit> "Control of MEMS nanopositioners with nano-scale resolution
20:20 < genehacker> seems a bit exagerated
20:22 < ybit> the nanopositioners mentioned in the paper: http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/meso_micro/Bergna2005.pdf (2005)
20:24 < ybit> actually, they may not be it
20:24  * ybit prepares to sleep
20:25 < ybit> btw, this is really neat: http://www.nanovip.com/research-news/tiny-test-tube-experiment-shows-reaction-of-melting-materials-at-the-nano-scale ..from UT Austin
20:29 < ybit> aha
20:29 < ybit> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/meso_micro/GormanISNM2006.pdf :: the paper mentioned in physorg, "Design of an On-Chip Micro-Scale Nanoassembly System"
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20:37 < kanzure> hello Goose|Laptop 
20:38 < Goose|Laptop> hello kanzure!
20:41 < genehacker> kanzure so about the casting thing I sent you, is it in the right format?
20:43 < ybit> genehacker: looks like yaml to me
20:44  * ybit thought it was nice
20:44 < ybit> genehacker: you are referring to the pastebin right?
20:44 < Goose|Laptop> if one of you built a workshop, what would you have in it?
20:45 < genehacker> yeah
20:45 < kanzure> Goose|Laptop: everything here: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/BOMs/
20:45 < genehacker> having some trouble with how to describe casting processes
20:45 < Goose|Laptop> aha! perfect! Ty kanzure
20:46 < kanzure> genehacker: it looked ok
20:46 < ybit> kanzure: what's with the advertising?
20:46 < kanzure> ybit: might as well
20:47 < ybit> let me know how that goes
20:48 < kanzure> 0.84% click-thru rate. i'm not expecting this to actually work.
21:10 < genehacker> click thru rate?
21:12 < ybit> how many people actually click the links
21:13 < ybit> .84% of people that visit his site so far actually click the links
21:22 < ybit> kanzure: if you will, let me know what adam decides, i'm interested to hear what he thinks about collaborating, or at least using skdb for the backend
21:25 < kanzure> i suspect he's not interested in collaboration otherwise why would he write that code without checking what's out there first?
21:25 < kanzure> (but he was friendly)
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22:16 < ybit> the orionids peak tonight
22:17 < ybit>  The peak is at 6AM,
22:17 < ybit> so after midnight as Orion gets higher and higher you should see
22:17 < ybit> more meteors,  Note that for meteor watching you don want to stare
22:17 < ybit> at the constellation where the radiant of center of the shower is located.
22:17 < ybit> Instead you should let your eyes wander over about 1/4 of the sky near the
22:17 < ybit> radiant.  The Orionids are from Comet Halley.  The weather should be good.
22:17 < ybit> from the resident astrophysicist at the uni
22:18 < ybit> whom i've had the pleasure to work with to no avail :P
22:23 < katsmeow-afk> tonite? oct 20, 09?
22:23 < katsmeow-afk> i saw a rising moon tonite, first moon i have seen in a month, i think
22:24 < ybit> yeah, it's tonight
22:29 < genehacker> http://www.siliconbunny.com/fsn-the-irix-3d-file-system-tool-from-jurassic-park/
22:29 < genehacker> argh too cloudy
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