--- Day changed Sun Nov 01 2009 00:17 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:59 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-32-67.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:59 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-32-67.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:30 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-32-67.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:38 -!- mason-l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:31 -!- mason-l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:34 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE7B58.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:35 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE62B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:29 < kanzure> eric hunting went a long way in his follow-ups on his toolbook emails, i forgot that he proposed a coop too 11:59 < ybit> what's with all this talk about commercialization of your designs in the the 'too commercial' thread, i think the discussion is becoming too commercial. what's the point of the machines? build stuff, if you need something build it, forget about having to make money for a little while, would ya. 12:16 < kanzure> fenn, ybit, did either of you read pg 6-9 of http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Compatibility%20issues%20for%20mechanical%20system%20modelling%20with%20standard%20components.pdf 12:16 < ybit> kanzure: i haven't read it yet, it's on my todo list for today, along with a few other papers 13:12 < ybit> it would be nice if the 'how to build a multimachine' had a listing of all the parts on one page 13:40 -!- boogles [n=boogles@osuosl/staff/Boogles] has quit [Nick collision from syn.] --- Log closed Sun Nov 01 13:40:35 2009 --- Log opened Sun Nov 01 13:40:55 2009 13:40 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@146.6.84.36] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:40 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 20 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 20 normal] 13:40 -!- branstrom [n=branstro@c-ed1ce055.438-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Nick collision from syn.] 13:40 -!- bkero [n=bkero@140.211.166.34] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:41 -!- drazak [n=drazak@drazak.net] has quit [Nick collision from syn.] 13:41 -!- nchaimov [n=cowtown@c-24-21-45-17.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from syn.] 13:41 -!- fenn [i=fenn@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has quit [Nick collision from syn.] --- Log closed Sun Nov 01 13:41:56 2009 --- Log opened Sun Nov 01 13:43:10 2009 13:43 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:43 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 21 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 21 normal] 13:43 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 1 secs 13:43 < kanzure> i feel like i just had a seizure 13:45 -!- kanzure_ [n=kanzure@cpe-72-177-121-106.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:45 -!- kanzure__ [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:45 -!- bct [n=bct@S0106001c1041555b.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:45 -!- bkero [n=bkero@ash.osuosl.org] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:46 -!- chizu [n=chizu@ash.osuosl.org] has joined #hplusroadmap --- Log closed Sun Nov 01 13:48:28 2009 --- Log opened Mon Nov 02 15:08:23 2009 15:08 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:08 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 27 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 27 normal] 15:08 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 2 secs --- Log closed Mon Nov 02 15:08:40 2009 --- Log opened Mon Nov 02 15:08:58 2009 15:08 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:08 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 27 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 27 normal] 15:08 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 0 secs 15:09 < kanzure> run that by me again please 15:10 < fenn> don't worry about looking like a "real" website.. "web 2.0" is for hipsters 15:10 < kanzure> show me a non web2.0 website that is immensely popular 15:11 < fenn> google 15:11 < kanzure> bullshit 15:11 < fenn> what?? 15:11 < kanzure> tons and tons of ajax 15:11 < fenn> they don't freak out over gradients and rounded corners 15:11 < kanzure> not on their front page maybe 15:11 < kanzure> but have you seen their control panels? 15:11 < fenn> and it "just works" if you dont have a fancy js browser 15:11 < kanzure> sure no problem with that 15:12 < fenn> ok.. how about craigslist 15:12 < kanzure> might have a gradient 15:12 < kanzure> http://www.craigslist.org/styles/craigslist.css 15:12 < fenn> well, whatever. it's a bunch of links to relevant pages 15:12 < kanzure> ah, nope 15:13 * fenn fires up a browser that actually cares about other peoples' css 15:13 < kanzure> they have a dropshadow though 15:14 < fenn> fwiw i like the sifter.org interface 15:15 < genehacker> it doesn't need to look pretty it just needs to be usable 15:15 < genehacker> pretty comes later 15:15 < kanzure> anyway i know it seems like i'm focusing on the layout a lot but you haven't seen web.py 15:15 < kanzure> or if you have you're not complaining about it 15:16 < kanzure> "civilization is built on the shoulders of giants, not your pocket book" <- patently false now that i think about it 15:16 < fenn> elaborate 15:16 < kanzure> er taxes 15:16 < fenn> there were taxes before civilization 15:16 < kanzure> taxes do not a civilization make 15:16 < kanzure> now i'm confused 15:16 < kanzure> goodbye 15:20 < kanzure> hm that car alarm is annoying 15:21 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/screenshots/2009-11-02-omnifab.png 15:23 < kanzure> missing step: build 15:37 < kanzure> fenn: try reloading in the pig. maybe it looks better now? 15:43 < ybit> kanzure: icons: http://ybit.ath.cx/omnifab/images/ 15:44 * ybit is afk for another 30 mins, blah 16:19 < ybit> kanzure: are you planning on converting test.html into a cheetah tmpl anytime soon? 16:29 < ybit> here's a simple login http://ybit.ath.cx/omnifab/auth.py 16:30 < ybit> i was thinking that it would be a good idea to allow users during registration to state their personal preferences and what inventory they have 16:31 < ybit> they could elect to make their info private or public, and they can import or export their inventory list 16:35 < ybit> s/preferences/information 16:55 < kanzure> ybit: just cat test.html >> templates/IndexTemplate.tmpl 16:56 < kanzure> auth.py 404 17:08 < ybit> kanzure: was afk 17:08 < ybit> i removed auth.py, it was crap 17:08 < ybit> s/was/is 17:08 < ybit> still working on it 17:12 < ybit> one suggestion is to move the header to the left more 17:12 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/images/of1.png 17:13 < ybit> and the body as well 17:14 < kanzure> what was auth.py? 17:16 < ybit> kanzure: grr, fine: http://ybit.ath.cx/code/auth.py 17:40 < ybit> what might be the problem here? http://ybit.ath.cx/images/of_test_download.png 17:41 < kanzure> bkero: if i was to spend money on a server somewhere in the world, where should i dump dollars 17:42 < kanzure> ybit: margin-left on slide-images in general.css 17:42 < ybit> i haven't touched the css yet, that was straight from adl 17:42 < ybit> javascripts/ included 17:45 < ybit> i could do margin-right: 50% 17:45 < ybit> bu that still doesn't explain why faq is missing and why all the funky positioning 17:46 < bkero> kanzure: need a bit more description. Do you want to colocate your own box? What are your priorities? 17:46 < bkero> Do you just want a VM somewhere? 17:46 < ybit> i bet i know why, it's probably using some of my other css files 17:46 < bkero> Stockholm is a great choice, Florida and Portland are both cheap 17:46 < ybit> yup 17:47 < ybit> it was using screen.css 17:47 < ybit> speaking of floriday, bkero, that server still hasn't arrived there? 17:47 < kanzure> bkero: i need a shell and awesome bandwidth 17:47 < ybit> florida 17:47 < bkero> ybit: arrives in seattle on the 5th 17:48 < kanzure> i would like to be able to hae root privledges 17:48 < bkero> kanzure: I can offer you a VM in sunny Portland for less than the leading competitor 17:48 < kanzure> so i guess a dedicated box, or a vm box 17:48 < kanzure> alright. what's the specs on the deal 17:49 < bkero> I'm switching colo providers at the moment but should be ready next week. 17:49 < bkero> tens of gigs of space, a core or two, 512/1gb 17:49 < bkero> 10gb for your rootfs and access to a couple TB of shared space 17:50 < bkero> as much transfer as you can manage 17:52 < kanzure> alright great 17:52 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-158-252.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:52 < kanzure> any ideas on the price range? 18:08 -!- any48407393 is now known as katsmeow 18:11 -!- any56576200 [n=someone@99-195-186-212.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:16 -!- katsmeow [n=someone@98.125.199.174] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:17 < kanzure> bkero: ? 18:49 < kanzure> blah i hope it won't be too much of a pita to integrate users on the website with the commit logs etc. 18:50 < kanzure> oh right you can change them by the variables passed to git no? 19:01 < ybit> kanzure: http://ybit.ath.cx/omnifab/test.html 19:01 < ybit> looks a lot better 19:01 < ybit> the formatting, but it still has a lot to go 19:02 < ybit> anywho, i'm going to implement the login now 19:09 < kanzure> a login to what? 19:09 < kanzure> :p 19:09 < kanzure> there's nothing there 19:10 < ybit> guess i should clarify, currenlty it's the registration where they can specify what hardware they have and personal details for the fun of it 19:10 < ybit> but if they register, they should be able to login, so, it's all of it :) 19:16 < kanzure> um what representation of inventory have you made? 19:16 < kanzure> sorry i think you're doing this backwards 19:21 < ybit> none, details can be filled in though me thinks 19:21 < kanzure> what details 19:23 < ybit> for the inventory, e.g. a reprap and its components ("generic enough for you") 19:23 < kanzure> please explain in terms of actual code what you want to do 19:25 < ybit> user registers and selects which supported machines he or she has. this generates a inventory.yaml for that user. it's just that, a listing of what they have... and that's all i'm proposing 19:25 < ybit> atm 19:25 < kanzure> they select it 19:25 < kanzure> why 19:26 < ybit> why not? 19:26 < kanzure> because that could take forever 19:26 < ybit> could, but notice i said 'supported' machines 19:26 < ybit> atm, i don't think skdb is going to support much 19:26 < kanzure> sorry that's not scalable 19:26 < kanzure> how about you go with the original plan? 19:26 < kanzure> of letting them type in the names of their tools? 19:26 < ybit> and that is? 19:27 < ybit> they could do that too, i mentioned importing and exporting of inventory lists earlier 19:27 < kanzure> so then how are you letting them select the parts/tools 19:27 < kanzure> did you fix the package view page or something? 19:27 < ybit> if they can't find their piece of machinery in the list, they could always specify. 19:27 < kanzure> blah 19:27 < ybit> a list 19:28 < kanzure> where is this list coming from 19:28 < ybit> i'm assuming someone will have to generate it 19:28 < kanzure> why isn't it using PackageView 19:28 < kanzure> or maybe it's just called Package in web.py 19:40 < ybit> dammit. where do you specify your css in IndexTemplate.tmpl? I've tried /styles, ../styles, and just general.css 19:40 < ybit> I've edited both IndexTemplate.tmpl and IndexTemplate.py 19:42 < kanzure> sorry what? 19:42 < kanzure> IndexTemplate.tmpl should be test.html basically 19:43 < kanzure> it doesn't matter where styles/ is because that's the browser's concern 19:43 < kanzure> to be honest this is why i don't like cherrypy 19:43 < kanzure> i mean using the cherrypy server 19:44 < kanzure> if we use apache we can have it look for the static files first and redirect anything else to cherrypy 19:45 < ybit> 19:42 < kanzure> IndexTemplate.tmpl should be test.html basically 19:45 < ybit> yep, it is 19:46 < ybit> so is everything in the docstring for responde.write 19:46 < ybit> respond* 19:46 < kanzure> you should be able to ignore IndexTemplate.py 19:54 < ybit> maybe i should specify a virtual_path for styles? i don't know what the problem is 19:54 < kanzure> the problem is that cherrypy does not host static content 19:54 < kanzure> media is static content imho 19:55 < ybit> i'd think so as well, but is including a giant server like apache something we want? 19:56 < kanzure> lighttpd? 19:58 < ybit> i'm fine with that 19:58 < kanzure> maybe you should ask #cherrypy on oftc 19:59 < ybit> http://hostingfu.com/article/nginx-vs-lighttpd-for-a-small-vps 20:07 < ybit> http://superjared.com/entry/benching-lighttpd-vs-nginx-static-files/ 20:09 < ybit> there's hardly a difference in either, nginx's community isn't bad as suggested in one of those links 20:09 < ybit> mailing list is indeed where you will get the most help 20:14 < ybit> right, so.. fenn.. 20:14 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/images/imogen_heap_what.cd.png 20:14 < ybit> told ya so 20:15 < ybit> now who's bullshitting who? huh, huuh? :) 21:49 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/omnifab/registration.html 21:49 < ybit> need to create a privacy policy and terms of service 21:49 < ybit> kanzure: what catptcha to use? 21:50 < kanzure> ybit: let's not 21:50 < kanzure> fenn: what is yellow? 21:52 < ybit> kanzure: what is your suggestion to block spam if not by captchas? 21:59 < kanzure> just being reasonable. don't allow more than a certain number of login attempts in a certain time period 21:59 < kanzure> give them a public API and sandboxed API to play around with 22:07 < ybit> fsf.org doesn't have a privacy policy or a terms of service 22:08 < fenn> why are you making it complicated and saurian? 22:11 < ybit> fenn: what's complicated? 22:11 < fenn> privacy policy, terms of service, captchas 22:12 < kanzure> fenn: if dave was to drop by when would you be awake 22:12 < fenn> after 2pm 22:13 < ybit> fenn: all have been removed 22:15 < kanzure> heh 22:15 < kanzure> don't you feel much better? 22:15 < kanzure> http://www.myzeo.com/index.cfm?flashVar=homeBarbara&tnt=1&s_tnt=4228:1:0 22:18 < fenn> god its scary how regular the progression is 22:19 -!- elevenarms [n=chatzill@cpe-24-28-73-49.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:19 * fenn updates the sleep map 22:19 < kanzure> hey elevenarms 22:19 < elevenarms> hello all 22:19 < kanzure> fenn: maybe you can add a color key? 22:20 < fenn> what would be the fun in that 22:21 < fenn> elevenarms: dunno if you care; danielfalck hangs out in #cam sometimes. he does some programming for chris king 22:26 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-60-153.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:32 < elevenarms> thanks, fenn... i'll check it out... 22:39 < kanzure> bkero: are you among the living? 23:12 -!- corvinius [n=anonymou@ip-118-90-110-150.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:13 < kanzure> hello corvinius 23:37 < bkero> kanzure: Yes I am. 23:37 < bkero> After bio midterm 23:54 < kanzure> any ideas on the pricerange? 23:57 < kanzure> how was the midterm