--- Day changed Tue Nov 03 2009 00:01 < genehacker> pricerange for manufacturing processes? 00:03 < kanzure> for a server 00:07 < genehacker> not much 00:07 < genehacker> not cheap though 00:08 < ybit> genehacker: he was asking bkero 00:08 < ybit> bkero is offering server space i believe 00:08 < kanzure> i don't need space, i need machiiiiinnneess 00:09 < ybit> +with a good connection to teh nets :) 00:09 < kanzure> fatter than an elephant's trunk 00:17 < bkero> :) 00:18 < any56576200> what flavor machines? 00:19 < bkero> It's a vm on a dual quad xeon, 16gb RAM, 2x1tb raid1 drives 00:20 * any56576200 is wrapping up configuring 10 boxes on the one shelf 00:20 < any56576200> got another 6gig of ram in the mail and another 10 300gig drives in the mail, will install when gets here 00:20 < bkero> fancy 00:21 < bkero> Get some hot automation action, get them to roll out themselves 00:21 < bkero> pxeboot, kickstart, puppet 00:21 * any56576200 nods 00:21 < any56576200> well, unfortunately for either me or all of you, it's entirely winxp 00:21 < bkero> sucker 00:22 < any56576200> i discovered something: if i clone a winxp home edition using Seagate disk wizard, the cloned drive is a winxp Pro edition 00:23 < genehacker> huh? 00:24 < any56576200> i allowed "automatic updates" to install a nvidia driver that trashed the machine, but i had an identical machine, so i cloned that one for to fix the first 00:24 < any56576200> neither was winxp pro, the clone is, the original isn't 01:41 -!- corvinius [n=anonymou@ip-118-90-110-150.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 02:17 -!- corvinius [n=anonymou@ip-118-90-110-150.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:17 -!- corvinius [n=anonymou@ip-118-90-110-150.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has left #hplusroadmap [] 03:03 -!- nsh_ [n=nsh@khbed74-245.studenthalls.gla.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:19 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-60-153.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:14 < kanzure> if anyone cares i'll be unavailable this morning 07:54 -!- nsh_ [n=nsh@78.32.249.98] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:56 -!- nsh_ [n=nsh@78.32.249.98] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:59 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-237-66.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:15 < Utopiah> http://knowfree.net/2009/11/integrating-advanced-computer-aided-design-manufacturing-and-numerical-control-principles-and-implementations/ 09:32 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-237-66.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:44 < kanzure> back 09:58 < kanzure> wow python makes it hard to parse html into a tree? http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html 09:59 < kanzure> i forgot about beautifulsoup, nevermind 10:06 -!- any81079159 [n=someone@99-195-186-212.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:24 -!- any56576200 [n=someone@99-195-186-212.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:38 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE3F37.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:39 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE675A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:42 < kanzure> heh he lists prices and percentages of various broken captchas: http://www.lafdc.com/captcha/ 10:48 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-153-180.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:13 -!- elevenarms [n=chatzill@cpe-24-28-73-49.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:14 < kanzure> sad that we're all on .austin.res.rr.com 11:14 < kanzure> why haven't we unrolled a geeknet yet? 11:26 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-153-180.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:44 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-153-180.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:59 -!- any81079159 is now known as katsmeow 12:00 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-153-180.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:05 -!- ybit2 [i=449f8e42@gateway/web/freenode/x-dffdc143547d31d3] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:05 < ybit2> kanzure, fenn: how do you propose we store usernames and passwords? 12:07 < ybit2> salt, hash, and then store it where.. i know you two are opposed to databases 12:07 < ybit2> even though you're building one :) 12:07 < ybit2> or is it just relational databases you are opposed to, my mind fails 12:09 < kanzure> just go use a cherrypy openid module 12:10 < kanzure> and if they don't have one, they should 12:10 < kanzure> anyway why are we doing usernames and passwords right now? 12:11 < ybit2> i'm going the long-way around 12:11 < ybit2> eventually it will be needed, so might as well. 12:11 < kanzure> i really like the 4chan/2chan/n-chan way of doing usernames 12:12 < kanzure> but i guess you're looking for some permanent identity thingy 12:14 < ybit2> the point is so that tools, materials, and their locations are logged.. automating the process of having something made that you can't make yourself 12:15 < kanzure> if len(element.contents) == 0: contents = element.contents[0] 12:15 < kanzure> IndexError: list index out of range 12:15 < kanzure> rawr 12:15 < kanzure> wtfffff 12:15 < ybit2> so, unfortunately, i don't see how the N-chan model works 12:15 < ybit2> ..in this particular case 12:15 < kanzure> okay 12:16 < kanzure> you know what, you should ask #cherrpy on oftc 12:17 < ybit2> you're joking, right? :P 12:17 < kanzure> fumanchu is very helpful 12:17 < kanzure> no i'm not 12:17 < ybit2> oh 12:17 < kanzure> they've been using cherrypy longer than i have 12:17 < kanzure> and probably have some concepts as to what a "best practice" is 12:18 < ybit2> heh, it's typically dead which is why i thought you were joking 12:18 < kanzure> or what one might look like 12:18 < ybit2> alright, i'll ask 12:21 < kanzure> http://github.com/astraw/stdeb makes debian packages from python packages 12:24 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk 13:34 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE675A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:48 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-153-180.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:05 < ybit2> so staticfile and staticdir tools, those would have been helpful yesterday evening :) 14:05 < ybit2> hi genehacker, how goes it 14:08 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE675A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:08 < ybit2> kanzure: the only person which responded in cherrypy mentioned storing them in a db 14:09 < ybit2> fenn, kanzure: how would you like to store usernames and passwords? do you really care? i can just put up something and then later, we can modify it 14:14 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-153-180.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:17 -!- ybit2 [i=449f8e42@gateway/web/freenode/x-dffdc143547d31d3] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 14:33 < kanzure> ybit: i still don't know why you're doing usernames 14:42 < kanzure> the slashdot summary sounds very clueless: http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/11/03/1450211/Scientists-Build-a-Smarter-Rat?art_pos=7 14:42 < kanzure> more so than they usually do 14:48 < kanzure> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb2gcode/ 14:52 < kanzure> in this edition of "terrible format A, meet terrible format B", .. 15:26 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-146-32.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:53 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-111-227.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:53 < ybit> i figure with user information, others can more easily find other users if they need help in building something 15:53 < ybit> 12:14 < ybit2> the point is so that tools, materials, and their locations are logged.. automating the process of having something made that you can't make yourself 15:59 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-146-32.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:03 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-111-227.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:27 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-152-92.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:28 < genehacker> yeah but I doubt that people will just let you use their state of the art machining center... 16:31 -!- branstrom [n=branstro@85.224.28.237] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:36 -!- branstrom [n=branstro@c-ed1ce055.438-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:57 < ybit> that's their choice, but if they know what skdb is while they are signing up and advertising what equipment they have, there's a good chance they will 16:59 < genehacker> who says they will? 17:06 < ybit> they do 17:06 < ybit> it's not guaranteed, i'm sure we'll work out the details later though 17:32 -!- mason-l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:36 -!- mason-l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:54 < ybit> damn ex-girlfriends getting in the way of productivity 17:56 < katsmeow-afk> depending on the definition of "productive" 17:57 < katsmeow-afk> considering how much trouble men are to women are to men, and vice versa, it's mindboggling that they still get together, it's just not logical 18:00 < ybit> i agree, but 'love' is illogical and without it, most people are miserable 18:00 < katsmeow-afk> but isn't "love" biochemical, often triggered after "lust" ? 18:01 < katsmeow-afk> and there's tons of cultural overtones too 18:01 < katsmeow-afk> many , in all cultures, based on ownership, or greed, or dependancies 18:02 < katsmeow-afk> i studied it because i can't see why some humans want robots to emulate human emotions, because most make no sense and are mostly trouble 18:11 < ybit> that chemical reaction in the brain is complicated, you're miserable with and without it, and i'm not sure how to deal with it at this current state. how can you deal with it, say, in the future. if you can trigger that reaction anytime, i'm sure having too much of it isn't good for your body, and how would you know what to trigger it with. maybe you get this feeling the more productive you are, but then it sure would suck if you are run into a bug whi 18:13 < kanzure> ybit: how about you work on the inventory representation like fenn and i have asked you to do a million times by now? 18:15 < katsmeow-afk> if you are run into a bug whi <<== cut off, irc has a length limit per line 18:16 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-152-92.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:24 < ybit> kanzure: i'm going the long way around it for the millionth time. i.e. allowing users to login to site of preference, specify machines owned via a form, and a yaml is spit out which states which machines are owned. i'm guessing that we will only support whichever machines we can get our hands on, and reprap seems like a logical candidate atm 18:24 < kanzure> sigh 18:24 < kanzure> why are you going the long way around? 18:26 < ybit> it's probbaly because it's something simple that i can see myself finishing quickly 18:27 < kanzure> if you want to finish things quickly, why not use django? 18:28 < ybit> that is website design with simple scripts, and it's somewhat related in that if the design is to be implemented i'll have to face that problem at some point. so maybe this will save us some drudge work later on. 18:28 < ybit> because you and fenn switched to cherrypy.. 18:30 < kanzure> if you want to get things done fast why not just do a "get things done fast" implementation 18:30 < kanzure> where we don't break things 18:31 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-61-15.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:49 < genehacker> "We have a published protocol for describing changes to the ride -- it's built on Git3D's system for marking up and syncing three-dee models of objects" 19:07 -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:08 -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:16 < kanzure> i still haven't made much sense of this yet: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/solidworks_source_structure.txt 20:17 < kanzure> it would be cool to map out what their architecture is 20:17 < kanzure> but doing that just from names is patently absurd 20:18 < kanzure> ooh.. http://doc.spatial.com/qref/ACIS/html/classSWEEP__ANNO__VERTEX__LAT.html 20:18 < kanzure> ACIS library ref? 20:18 < kanzure> isn't this proprietary? 20:18 < kanzure> http://doc.spatial.com/index.php/Portal:ACIS 20:18 < kanzure> hm 20:20 < kanzure> not many users: http://doc.spatial.com/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&limit=500 20:31 < kanzure> anyway, i'm ripping a copy so someone should ask for a zip in a few hours 20:54 < kanzure> 20:51 < kanzure> making skdb dependent on OCC might have been a mistake :) 20:54 < kanzure> 20:52 < Bluntz_> you think? 20:54 < kanzure> 20:52 < Bluntz_> lol 20:54 < kanzure> 20:52 < Bluntz_> 1.5 gb build 20:54 < kanzure> 20:53 < Bluntz_> lmao 20:54 < ybit> yeah, just got through reading that 20:55 < ybit> you also forgot.. " i have this strong urge to just yank it out and write my own cad kernel.. but i know this will take a long time, and i am too eager" 21:00 < kanzure> fenn: can you join #emc? 21:02 < genehacker> WTF? all it takes is a 30 watt laser to temporarily blind a spy satellite 21:02 < genehacker> http://www.noahshachtman.com/archives/002794.htm 21:03 < genehacker> 30 stargazers with 1 watt green lasers and steady hands could temporarily blind a spy satellite 21:04 < kanzure> sounds like you need very steady hands 21:04 < genehacker> or a telescope with laser mounted on it 21:06 < katsmeow-afk> and a place to do it, so you can go home and blend back in 21:07 < genehacker> we did't mean to blind your satellite we were just star-pointing! 21:07 < kanzure> yeah at the MC31419 galaxy cluster to be specific 21:07 < kanzure> which you just so happened to be blocking 21:08 < genehacker> it's just ridiculous 21:08 < kanzure> it's sad when the little RNG in your head spits out the digits of pi 21:08 < genehacker> you can be an evil genius for less than the price of a car 21:29 < ybit> i'm through with web design for the night 21:30 < kanzure> i told someone i get 40k hits/mo to my website and they're pressuring me to get a better template/design going 21:30 < kanzure> meh 21:31 < kanzure> "to show that i care" 21:34 < ybit> care? 21:34 < ybit> about what? 21:34 < kanzure> appearances 21:34 < ybit> that's lame 21:35 < kanzure> not when you get volume.. 21:36 < genehacker> what is there to install from skdb 21:36 < kanzure> all of it 21:36 < genehacker> do we have some useful hardware yet 21:36 < ybit> genehacker: no 21:36 < kanzure> screws 21:36 < ybit> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc 21:37 < ybit> i suck at css 21:37 < kanzure> yes 21:38 < kanzure> also, the skdb installation process is way too fucking complex 21:38 < kanzure> for code that is so simple 21:38 < genehacker> what does skdb do at the moment 21:39 < genehacker> does it do anything more than lego blocks? 21:39 < kanzure> part packaging, mating, bounding box collision detection, metric/imperial screws, legos, dependency representation, CAD, .. 21:40 < genehacker> how does the dependency representation work? 21:41 < genehacker> how is it determined? 21:42 < kanzure> whoever writes it down 21:42 < kanzure> basically it's in the form of "(x and y and z) or (A and (B or C))" 21:43 < genehacker> not manufacturing processes 21:43 < kanzure> yes actually. 21:43 < kanzure> the items can be skdb packages or just generic manufacturing processes 21:43 < kanzure> for instance, screw's metadata uses processes i think 21:43 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/screw/metadata.yaml near the bottom 21:45 < genehacker> I need to add something to the screw meta data 21:45 < kanzure> what do you need to add? 21:45 < kanzure> i wish github was written in python.. 21:45 < kanzure> (instead of on rails) 21:46 < genehacker> machined screws fatigue faster than rolled screws 21:46 < genehacker> it's very important 21:46 < kanzure> is there an equation for this 21:46 < genehacker> no] 21:46 < genehacker> it's completely dependent on how the screws are made 21:47 < kanzure> and there's no way to tell? 21:47 < genehacker> what metal fatigue? 21:47 < genehacker> metal fatigue times? 21:48 < genehacker> not really 21:48 < genehacker> it's just a fact 21:49 < genehacker> using machined screws in high fatigue places causes lots of trouble 21:49 < genehacker> especially on airplanes 21:49 < kanzure> it's not magical though 21:49 < genehacker> of course it's not 21:50 < genehacker> it's standard somewhere 21:51 < genehacker> also predicting metal fatigue is very hard without some very proprietary and under the wraps software which we don't have and requires the extensive usage of electron microscopy of processed parts. 21:54 < genehacker> even then then it's a mythical beast to me 21:57 < genehacker> anyway this is a social engineering knowledge base 21:57 < kanzure> i always thought it was societal 21:57 < genehacker> what ever 21:57 < kanzure> well it's not a knowledge base about social engineering 21:58 < genehacker> this is fairly important data 21:58 < kanzure> okay 21:58 < kanzure> i wasn't doubting that 22:00 < genehacker> do I need to add it or will you take care of it 22:00 < kanzure> i don't know what to add 22:01 < genehacker> now how can I phrase this 22:02 < genehacker> screws produced by machining processes are not suitable for usage in high vibration, high fatigue, or critical applications 22:02 < genehacker> use screws produced by rolling instead, OR ELSE 22:02 < kanzure> can you characterize high vabration 22:02 < kanzure> and high fatigue 22:03 < kanzure> in terms of units please 22:03 < kanzure> *vibration 22:03 < kanzure> vabration is optional :) 22:03 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread 22:03 < genehacker> oh look at this 22:03 < genehacker> wikipedia has some meta data 22:04 < genehacker> MECHANICAL 22:04 < genehacker> Yield and shear yield stress increased 22:04 < genehacker> Fatigue resistance is increased 22:04 < genehacker> Ductility is decreased 22:04 < genehacker> that data 22:04 < genehacker> not sure at this point 22:05 < kanzure> hey world, please give me data 22:05 < kanzure> thxbai 22:05 < ybit> world: fuck you and all your neurons 22:05 < genehacker> time to search through my notes 22:05 < kanzure> why don't you put your notes on a website 22:06 < genehacker> they're in .docx 22:06 < kanzure> they can be converted 22:06 < kanzure> also why are they in .docx :p 22:06 < genehacker> with the equations intact? 22:06 < kanzure> i think there's a doc-to-latex conversion thingy but i'm not sure 22:07 < genehacker> because I use winblows equation editor to make nice pretty equations in my notes 22:07 < kanzure> do you do it in real time 22:07 < kanzure> like while they are being written on the overhead 22:08 < genehacker> semi real time 22:08 < genehacker> is latex faster and does it work in open office? 22:08 < kanzure> latex can be faster but it has a bit of a learning curve at first 22:08 < kanzure> there's something called lyx which is a graphical frontend to latex 22:09 < kanzure> lyx: http://n2.nabble.com/file/n2469116/LyxSumProblem.jpeg 22:10 < kanzure> microsoft windows equation editor: http://static.rbytes.net/fullsize_screenshots/e/q/equations-for-windows.jpg 22:11 < genehacker> wait do I have to select stuff from a list to do everything or can I just type it in 22:11 < kanzure> you can just type it in 22:11 < kanzure> but if you don't know how to do something you can select it from a list 22:11 < kanzure> i think lyx runs on windows too 22:11 < kanzure> latex is what people use to make all of their science papers, etc. 22:12 < kanzure> except matt.. matt has to be the only guy i know who avoids LaTeX 22:12 < genehacker> can it convert the latex code to nice looking equations with a key stroke? 22:12 < kanzure> lyx does that automatically while you type it in i think 22:12 < genehacker> in openoffice or word? 22:12 < kanzure> and you can add a shortcut key i think. most kde apps let you just assign a key stroke to just about anything.. 22:12 < kanzure> lyx is separate 22:13 < genehacker> that won't work 22:13 < genehacker> that's why I use winblows equation editor 22:13 < genehacker> because I can type the equation in, press alt= and bam I have a nice looking equation 22:15 < kanzure> that's the idea, yeah 22:15 < genehacker> also, my laptop runs longer on winblows and I like to have BOINC running while I take notes 22:16 < kanzure> hey why do you call it winblows 22:17 < genehacker> because it blows 22:17 < genehacker> right now firefox is broken 22:18 < genehacker> windows explorer can crash 22:20 < genehacker> and 1000 other things 22:23 < genehacker> ok here's what you put 22:23 < genehacker> rolled threads have increased cyclic loading fatigue resistance 22:31 < genehacker> actually that might go in thread making process 22:35 < genehacker> kanzure awhile back you said you got a book on manufacturing correct? 22:36 < genehacker> it didn't happen to be schey did it? 22:36 < kanzure> i'll check in a few minutes 22:37 < genehacker> over manufacturing processes? 22:39 < genehacker> if so that book has almost everything worth putting in processes 23:42 < ybit> kanzure: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=winblows 23:43 < ybit> it's been around awhile, that entry was in 2003 23:43 < kanzure> it was around that same time that people started to think it was newbish to say that though 23:43 < ybit> hehe 23:43 < ybit> i think 'lol' got old sometime in 2007 as well 23:44 < ybit> a little before maybe 23:45 < kanzure> 2007? much earlier. 23:45 * ybit is trying to get festival to speak wikipedia entries clearly so i have decent podcasts to listen to 23:45 < ybit> more than likely, i'm slightly delusional atm