--- Day changed Mon Nov 09 2009
00:10 < ybit> blist
00:10 < katsmeow> ?
00:10 < ybit> i typed it in the wrong irssi windows
00:10 < ybit> window*
00:15 < ybit> chizu: which trevor hardcastle are you on facebook? befriend me, because i haven't a clue who you are or what you do http://facebook.com/heathmatlock
00:17 < ybit> flamoot, are you really connected as root?
00:28 < chizu> ybit: I don't use facebook.
00:30 < bkero> ybit: pong
00:54 < ybit> 1 packet transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 8400s
00:54 < ybit> chizu: oh, alright then
00:57 < ybit> chizu: just went through the logs, you and bkero are both at osuosl, this is new to me
00:57 < ybit> and chizu, you only talk when people need python help and ping you, heh
00:58  * ybit just sent an email to hod lipson asking for source from his 'towards a universal knowledge database for design automation' paper
00:59 < ybit> gn
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09:31 < Utopiah> Open source enters the world of atoms: A statistical analysis of open design http://www.uic.edu/htbin/cgiwrap/bin/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/2670
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11:35 < ybit2> kanzure: i sent you an email, looks like good news. if you get a chance to respond to me through email, please do... or /query ybit
11:36 < ybit2> and sorry about the html crap or whatever gmail used, i realized this after i sent it 
11:36 < kanzure> very well
11:40 < kanzure> ybit2: originally the idea was for synthesis, not sequencing
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15:04 < kanzure> hm does anyone have a list of all wikipedia articles? without having to crawl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AllPages
15:16 < ybit> not that i'm aware of 
15:17 < ybit> you could ask in #wikipedia
15:19 < ybit> kanzure: what about focusing on both sequencing in synthesis?
15:19 < ybit> 'welcome to site _blah_, are you interested in sequencing or synthesis?'
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16:42 < kanzure> (325, 'in what state is it illegal to throw an old computer across the street at your neighbor')
16:44 < xp_prg> I want to make my own microfluidic device, I have just completed the laser and Tomach milling class at the Tech Shop
16:44 < xp_prg> I know I can laser etch into acrylic, I am curious how to put the pumps/valves in though
16:46 < xp_prg> hello?
16:59 < genehacker> that's not how microfluidic devices are made
16:59 < genehacker> at the reynold's numbers microfluidic devices operate at, you can have valves with no moving parts
17:00 < genehacker> actuated solely by pressure
17:00 < genehacker> IE down there liquids tend to behave like syrup
17:02 < genehacker> I
17:04 < genehacker> try making a vortex valve before you make any other microfluidic element
17:10 < kanzure> .deb packages of heekscad: http://yamato.hyte.de/packages/heeks/
17:16 < katsmeow-afk> kanzure, just dl wikipedia
17:27 < kanzure> no thanks, i found something better
17:27 < kanzure> http://dammit.lt/wikistats/
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18:31 < xp_prg> genehacker there are valves on a microfluidic device though
18:32 < xp_prg> why can't you understand that?
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18:50 < genehacker> yeah there are
18:51 < genehacker> planar valves with no moving parts
18:52 < genehacker> meaning these aren't your grand daddy's valves
18:53 < xp_prg> how does a planar valve work?
19:00 < genehacker> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/MicrofluidicsHistoryTheoryandApplications.zip
19:00 < genehacker> it's in there
19:07 < genehacker> in the pressure driven section
19:10 < genehacker> now this is cool
19:10 < genehacker> http://www.rsc.org/delivery/_ArticleLinking/ArticleLinking.cfm?JournalCode=LC&Year=2009&ManuscriptID=b913253h&Iss=Advance_Article
19:10 < genehacker> someone got the shrinky dink microfluidic technique to work
19:11 < genehacker> IE they got them to shrink uniformly
19:17 < xp_prg> genehacker is it feasible for me to make my own microfluidic device?
19:25 < genehacker> a microfluidic device that does what?
19:44 < xp_prg> fetch, execute, write instructions with fluids
19:55 < genehacker> I'm confused
19:56 < genehacker> are you trying to make a fluidic microprocessor
20:03 < genehacker> it sounds like you're trying to make a microprocessor
20:07 < xp_prg> yes I am
20:07 < xp_prg> yes a fluidic microprocessor
20:08 < genehacker> how small do you want to make it
20:10 < genehacker> since you don't have photolithography equipment and I'm not sure if there are any fluidic logic gates that work at low reynolds number probably big
20:10 < xp_prg> well I want to go as small as I can
20:10 < xp_prg> but I don't have photolithography equipment or clean room
20:11 < xp_prg> so am I screwed?
20:13 < genehacker> you can make a fluidic microprocessor that isn't tiny
20:18 < xp_prg> oh sweet
20:18 < xp_prg> how?
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20:32 < genehacker> well you'd first have to design the circuit
20:32 < xp_prg> can I do it with a laser on acrylic somehow?
20:32 < genehacker> yeah
20:32 < genehacker> probably
20:32 < xp_prg> what would I use for a pump and valve?
20:32 < genehacker> you don't use valves
20:33 < genehacker> you use fluidic amplifiers
20:33 < xp_prg> how much are those?
20:33 < genehacker> as much as it cost to cut them in acrylic
20:33 < xp_prg> hmm... ok
20:34 < xp_prg> I am confused what causes things to flow in the circuit
20:34 < genehacker> as far as a pump is concerned depends on the fluid
20:34 < xp_prg> what is the "pump" ?
20:34 < genehacker> in what circuit
20:34 < genehacker> it's a pump that provides a pressure differential
20:34 < xp_prg> lets just say it is a circular mixing circuit with two inputs
20:34 < genehacker> how many outputs?
20:34 < xp_prg> 1
20:35 < genehacker> ok the fluids enter the 2 inputs then exit the output
20:35 < xp_prg> ya
20:36 < xp_prg> it has to mix around in the circular mixer area
20:36 < xp_prg> which means you have to close the flow from the out to the in and force it to circle around
20:36 < genehacker> I don't know what type of fluidic mixer you're talking about
20:37 < xp_prg> well how do you propose mixing two things together?
20:37 < genehacker> at what reynolds number?
20:37 < xp_prg> what is a reynolds number? :(
20:38 < genehacker> is the mixer small or big?
20:38 < xp_prg> well it is big enough so I can make it with acrylic and don't need a clean room and stuff
20:39 < xp_prg> does that answer the question?
20:39 < genehacker> then the reynolds number is probably high enough that you could inject two fluids into a channel and they'd mix themselves(given that the fluids aren't sufficiently viscous)
20:40 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_number
20:40 < xp_prg> no I want to do it the advanced microfluidics way, imagine a circular channel
20:40 < genehacker> huh?
20:40 < xp_prg> both fluids flow into it, then close the valves and they circle around mixing with each other like two gay loers
20:40 < xp_prg> lovers
20:41 < genehacker> I haven't seen that one
20:41 < genehacker> usually for low reynolds number mixing you pass two fluids through a curvy channel and they come out mixed
20:41 < xp_prg> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0gmTc2wA3k
20:41 < xp_prg> its in here
20:43 < genehacker> at what point in the video?
20:43 < xp_prg> don't remember
20:45 < genehacker> I don't know how they do that
20:45 < xp_prg> they tell you in the video
20:45 < genehacker> it might be using electricosmostic flow
20:46 < genehacker> more likely it's somesort  of peristaltic device
20:47 < xp_prg> well lets say I wanted to do it with acrylic, just give me some ideas
20:47 < genehacker> WHOA
20:47 < genehacker> that's crazy
20:47 < genehacker> they're running at high reynolds numbers
20:49 < genehacker> in other words the fluid could be going through there at faster than the speed of sound
20:50 < xp_prg> the video doesn't show it that fast
20:51 < genehacker> they don't say how they're doing it in the video, but they're probably doing it electrokinectically
20:52 < genehacker> nope
20:52 < genehacker> they're doing it mechanically
20:53 < genehacker> they're using rubbery microfluidics
20:53 < genehacker> http://thebigone.stanford.edu/quake/publications/biomedmicro01.pdf
20:53 < genehacker> using this
20:54 < xp_prg> well you get my question though right?
20:54 < xp_prg> I want to do it at the diy level
20:54 < xp_prg> but I do have access to a laser and drilling machines
20:55 < genehacker> you might beable to do that with shrinky dink microfluidics
20:55 < xp_prg> I have to go in 5 minutes
20:55 < xp_prg> what is shrinky dink microfluidics
20:55 < xp_prg> ?
20:56 < genehacker> rubber microfluidics formed with molds made out of shrunk shrinky dinks
20:56 < xp_prg> what acts as the pump and valves?
21:00 < genehacker> http://www.nft-eop.co.jp/en/img/technology/img_micro_valve02.gif
21:01 < genehacker> something like this
21:01 < xp_prg> I am confused by that
21:01 < xp_prg> how do you make it go open?
21:02 < genehacker> http://thebigone.stanford.edu/foundry/technology/valve.html
21:02 < genehacker> these are the valves they used
21:03 < genehacker> the channel on the top expands like a ballon when pressure is applied closing the channel
21:03 < xp_prg> how is pressure applied?
21:03 < genehacker> with air
21:03 < genehacker> or pressure from a syringe pump
21:03 < xp_prg> how does the air get there?  With like a mini hose or something?
21:04 < genehacker> yeah
21:04 < xp_prg> genehacker, I want to create a microfluidics chip, please be thinking of a way I can do that at a size that is not too difficult
21:04 < xp_prg> I have to go right now, thanks again for your wonderful help!
21:04 < xp_prg> just curious how much is a lithography machine?
21:05 < genehacker> then it won't be a microfluidics chip
21:05 < xp_prg> why not?
21:05 < xp_prg> won't be small enough?
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