--- Day changed Mon Nov 16 2009
00:00 < fenn> wow... i just watched "zeitgeist the movie"
00:01 < genehacker> and?
00:01 < genehacker> how was it?
00:01 < fenn> i want to start handing it out on street corners
00:04 < ybit> ah, it's out? i was wanting to watch that as well
00:04 < genehacker> really? that good
00:04 < ybit> probably one of the few films i care to watch, i really can't think of another
00:04 < genehacker> you can't hand out a movie at street corners economically
00:04 < genehacker> best to hand out papers directing people toward it online
00:05 < fenn> you can get free DVD-R's with rebate deals
00:05 < fenn> i think a person is more likely to watch a dvd you hand to them than to look up some URL online
00:06 < fenn> i should tell people to watch it with their family on thanksgiving
00:07 < genehacker> FREE CHARLIE BROWN THANKSGIVING SPECIAL WATCH WITH YOUR FAMILY ON THANKSGIVING!
00:07 < ybit> oh, hah, i've already watched both
00:09 < ybit> i was thinking it was going to be as jacque mentioned in one interview where he said it was to show a family in the future, how well things work for them in the venus project, and then while they are learning about the past, it flips back to present day and juxtaposes the two time periods
00:11 < genehacker> now how do we get there?
00:12 < fenn> yeah that's what i expected.. sort of disappointed it wasnt, but happy with what it was anyway
00:13 < genehacker> so it doesn't propose anyway to get there?
00:13 < fenn> i havent watched 'addendum' yet so i dont know what it's about
00:14 < fenn> jacque fresco's idea is basically a do-ocracy based around robotics and things like SKDB
00:15 < genehacker> so we're headed in the right direction with SKDB
00:16 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: i looked at seasteading.org today, but i still don't know all the details, all i know is that they plan on setting up a family out there in less than 2 years
00:16 < ybit> there being the sea somewhere
00:16 < ybit> i didn't see where the money was going though
00:17 < ybit> so far peter has raised about $20k, you can't consider the $500k that he himself put into the funds
00:18 < ybit> can't say i'd want to on their seasteaded island nation, i'd much prefer my own or the #hplusroadmap nation
00:19 < ybit> or a venus project seastead
00:20 < ybit> one which doesn't deal with money
00:20 < ybit> and isn't out to promote competition
00:20 < fenn> yeah libertarianism doesn't really solve anything.. it's basically the religion of the ruling class already anyway
00:21 < genehacker> we need the robots first
00:21 < fenn> which 'we'?
00:45 < ybit> kanzure: give us an update if you get a chance
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01:01 < fenn> ybit: the startup workshop sounded like mostly bullshit from what i heard
01:05 < ybit> i don't understand how they didn't understand the importance of getting the synthesis (and sequencing) prices further down, and hwo could they miss the large profits to be had from it o.O
01:06 < ybit> maybe my large isn't large enough though
01:11 < ybit> +perception of
01:11 < ybit> yep, time for bed
01:40 < wrldpc2> http://www.seasteading.org + http://www.boeing.com/special/sea-launch/  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Launch
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10:20 < rmond> Hackathon this weekend WOOOOOOOOOO! http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Synchronous_Hackathon
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10:51 < kanzure> http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm
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13:04 < kanzure> hello zancas 
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13:15 < kanzure> hey bbacso 
13:47 < zancas> howdy
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15:03 < kanzure> hey branstrom 
15:03 < branstrom> hiya
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15:47 < genehacker> what are communications people doing in here?
15:47 < genehacker> what are communications people doing in here?
15:47 < genehacker> what are business school people doing in here?
15:50 < genehacker> we don't see many of them in here
16:06 < kanzure> anil is a programmer
16:10 -!- silverman [n=chatzill@dhcp-84-116.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:10 < silverman> I heard there was world-taking-over in this room.
16:11 < ybit> heh, you heard right, we do it every night, isn't that right pinky?
16:12 < ybit> silverman: question for ya, how did bryan convince you to come in here? i've seen a bunch of utexas people join today
16:12 < kanzure> narf
16:12 < silverman> He emailed everyone who was at 3DS this weekend.
16:13 < kanzure> silverman: sometime you should stop by the 4th floor, we have a lab presence there :)
16:13 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb
16:13 < silverman> Is that the madlab?
16:13 < kanzure> (that's the lab wiki)
16:13 < silverman> My office is on 3.
16:13 < kanzure> yeah
16:14 < kanzure> i'm not there at the moment, i'm supposed to be sleeping right now
16:14 < silverman> I wouldn't mind sleeping, too. Coffee time draws nigh.
16:14 < silverman> Usually when I pass the madlab there's just one or two people in there.
16:15 < kanzure> austin talley, probably
16:15 < kanzure> or pradeep(he does mechanisms/kinematics)
16:15 < silverman> I know Talley but not Pradeep.
16:19 < kanzure> so, i don't think we talked much about what you do at etc
16:20 < silverman> I work for Beaman on fuel cell manufacturing.
16:20 < silverman> Modeling and control.
16:21 < kanzure> neat
16:21 < silverman> And I like to tinker.
16:21 < kanzure> right now madlb/adl mostly has models of screws and legos because of skdb (the main project in here of sorts)
16:21 < silverman> Yeah I was noticing a lego-centrism.
16:21 < kanzure> it's hard finding ISO docs on standard machine elements.. UT doesn't have access to them
16:21 < silverman> What kind of machine elements?
16:22 < kanzure> all of them :(
16:22 < kanzure> believe me, if we had documentation, we'd totally do stuff that  "isn't legos"
16:22 < silverman> We have a subset of the ISO documents.
16:22 < kanzure> woah
16:22 < kanzure> uh, how big is a subset? 
16:22 < silverman> Let me find out.
16:23 < kanzure> also i'm lagging overhere because i'm uploading a youtube video. please excuse tyops
16:24 < silverman> We used to have them and now we don't.
16:24 < kanzure> blah
16:24 < kanzure> the library doesn't have access
16:24 < silverman> I remember my friend asking for one and he gave me the wrong number and it was about how to milk cows or something.
16:24 < kanzure> hahah
16:24 < kanzure> cow fetish :)
16:27 < silverman> And are all the people in this room madlab related?
16:27 < kanzure> no, not at all
16:27 < silverman> They're just interested in protons or something.
16:28 < kanzure> fenn might be, but that's only because he moved down here to austin after i convinced him that i had this 400sqft manufacturing facility / shop thingy
16:28 < kanzure> er, 4000
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16:28 < silverman> What facility is that?
16:28 < kanzure> down on congress and ben white
16:28 < ybit> silverman: i'm this guy: http://openwetware.org/wiki/User:Heath_Matlock
16:28 < kanzure> it's sort of a hackerspace that still needs some help getting up and running. 
16:29 < ybit> who is involved in that space btw?
16:29 < kanzure> just les filip at this point
16:29 < ybit> are there any tools there? i thought it was going by the wayside
16:29 < kanzure> yeah there were lots of tools
16:29 < kanzure> i gave youu a list
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16:30 < ybit> orly, what was the name of that list?
16:31 < kanzure> it's in skdb
16:31 < kanzure> but the filename was convoluted
16:31 < kanzure> it probably has a date in it
16:31 < kanzure> like 2008-03 or something :p
16:31 < kanzure> er, 2009-03
16:32 < ybit> sweet, i'll check it out, i'm on the phone now with jennifer from biobasic..
16:33 < kanzure> maybe you should have her call me instead?
16:33 < silverman> I probably haven't used IRC since 2000.
16:33 < silverman> And so I'm embarrassed that I 
16:33 < silverman> just figured out how pms look in this client.
16:33 < silverman> Oops.
16:33 < kanzure> what is pms?
16:33 < silverman> Like a message just to me.
16:34 < kanzure> don't feel bad. when it was 2000, i was only 10 and learning to read, or something
16:34 < silverman> Anyway, first time with this client.
16:34 < silverman> Ha
16:35 < silverman> So, a hackerspace. I thought it was strange we didn't have one in Austin.
16:35 < kanzure> :)
16:35 < silverman> So what's holding you back?
16:35 < kanzure> we have a woodworking shop of some sorts, but it's very commercial-focused
16:35 < kanzure> the problem with the one on [Bthe poroblem with the one on congress/ben-white is that the other guy involved in the project (footing the bills right now) didn't want to deal with government grants to help fund it
16:36 < kanzure> i mean, not just deal, but not be associated with getting grants at all
16:36 < silverman> The woodshop makes things for sale?
16:36 < ybit> kanzure: hows about you call her? it will either be ashlee fan or jennifer __ from marketing 905.474.4493 
16:36 < kanzure> nah, they have people rent out little rooms for storage or something, and the people make stuff and sell stuff individually to help pay for their bills to be involved with the shop overall
16:37 < silverman> And, are existing, famous hackerspaces funded by the gummint?
16:37 < kanzure> ybit: can you tell them to expect a call from me, or whether they want a call or not? etc.
16:37 < ybit> ashelee is the assistant, jennifer is the vice president
16:37 < kanzure> ah neat
16:37 < ybit> yeah, i'll let them know they should expect a call from you tomorrow afternoon
16:37 < kanzure> silverman: fablabs are typically funded by academic grants, yes. fablabs are awesome, if you haven't heard of them you're missing out
16:37 < ybit> or morning, which is good for you?
16:37 < kanzure> uh, i have no idea what my sleep schedule is anymore
16:37 < kanzure> let's say afternoon
16:37 < ybit> alright
16:38 < kanzure> i have a meeting from 4 to 5 with campbell about VOICED, so probaly before 4
16:38 < kanzure> *porbably
16:38 < kanzure> **probably
16:38 < kanzure> silverman: the basic idea of a fablab is that you put as much manufacturing capacity into as small a space as possible (within safety limits of course)
16:39 < silverman> I think I've seen photos, but never been to one.
16:39 < kanzure> and then let people just show up and use the tools to work on cool projects
16:39 < silverman> And I've also never heard one called a fablab.
16:39 < kanzure> me too
16:39 < silverman> Would you count noisebridge as a fablab?
16:39 < kanzure> ah, well there's also a "techshop" but that's way more commercial and insane (gym business model)
16:39 < kanzure> not quite, noisebridge is a hackerspace IIRC
16:39 < kanzure> er
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16:39 < kanzure> so the difference, as far as i can tell, is that a fablab is from neil gershenfeld
16:39 < silverman> But hackerspaces as I understand it also often have laser cutters and shit.
16:40 < kanzure> and a hackerspace is just this LED knitting circle
16:40 < silverman> Maybe it's just semantic.
16:40 < kanzure> oh really?
16:40 < kanzure> most hack
16:40 < kanzure> erspaces that i've heard about just have bottles of glue and paint
16:40 < silverman> Aha.
16:40 < kanzure> yeah it's just semantic
16:40 < kanzure> my point is, i wan
16:40 < kanzure> t to be fucking awesome
16:40 < silverman> LED knitting circle is a good way to put it.
16:40 < kanzure> also my lag is killing me at this point :(
16:41 < kanzure> inventory of a typical fablab: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/BOMs/comparison/
16:41 < silverman> It'll be challenging for it to surpass the machine shop+SLS+mechatronics we have here.
16:41 < kanzure> only students can use the shops. 
16:41 < kanzure> i mean, if you're not associated with the uni, you're screwed
16:41 < silverman> Right. But we are.
16:41 < kanzure> of a hacerkspace
16:41 < kanzure> er, 
16:42 < kanzure> i also don't get the vibe of a hackerspace
16:42 < silverman> You're interested in the general public using your thing?
16:42 < ybit> 2009-03 is nowhere to be found in the skdb directories
16:42 < silverman> I concur.
16:42  * ybit is off to grub on chinese food
16:42 < kanzure> within reason. i want to be able to get people that are awesome and help them make cool stuff
16:42 < kanzure> i mean, a weekly "open night" would be pretty fun
16:43 < kanzure> that's how most hackerspaces do it apparently. i don't know about the scheduling issues there
16:43 < silverman> Yeah I think this is a good idea.
16:43 < kanzure> so
16:43 < silverman> I have a friend who used to go to noisebridge.
16:43 < kanzure> a few months ago i was called up by someone named alex lightman up in LA
16:43 < kanzure> he made up this wild sotry about how he had previously made $130M from convincing congress to go ipv6
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16:44 < kanzure> and he wanted to fund an "HQ" for me and others focused around synthetic biology, mechatronics, fablabs, hackerspaces, diybio, etc.
16:44 < kanzure> but when i tried to get a flight up there, he kind of stopped talking
16:44 < kanzure> so i
16:44 < kanzure> so i learned that he wasn't as trusting as he originally seemed to be, but there are a lot of others who want to see something like this happen
16:45 < kanzure> austin miht be the right place too
16:45 < silverman> Yeah probably.
16:45 < kanzure> *might
16:45 < silverman> That guy sounds nuts. He called you first? Isn't that suspicious?
16:45 < kanzure> oops, no. i cold called him
16:46 < silverman> Aha.
16:46 < kanzure> this was after i m et his "assistant" of sorts (the other person working on this project) http://parijata.com/
16:46 < kanzure> she's like a female version of me
16:46 < silverman> Ha
16:46 < kanzure> srsly though. :p
16:46 < silverman> That's hilarious.
16:47 < silverman> So who pays for the fablab and who keeps idiots from ruining it?
16:47 < kanzure> so that's what we do in here
16:47 < silverman> The "people who need to make something" are paying?
16:47 < kanzure> ah, well, the fablabs are usually funded by academic grants. this is an initiative out of MIT's Media Lab's Center for Bits and Atoms
16:48 < silverman> I might be a professor here in a few years. If that happens, give me a call.
16:48 < kanzure> techshop is commercially funded but has a bad business model. people buy/pay for a monthly fee/subscription to the shop. it's basically a gym model. but the problem is that the machines cost way too much
16:48 < kanzure> so you must have everyone always on the machines, and even then, people don't get access to the machines at all because they have to be constantly booked
16:48 < kanzure> and even if they are constantly booked, the cost is way way too high
16:49 < kanzure> other ways are usually through the startup route.. where the core team also happens to do some consulting on the side wihich might involve a need for using the machines every once in a while
16:49 < kanzure> like think of the best excuse for getting a giant CNC machine :p
16:49 < silverman> Right.
16:49 < silverman> You know, Slotboom has a machine shop at home.
16:49 < silverman> I wonder if it's NC.
16:49 < kanzure> a friend in the area has been doing just that, except with bicycles
16:49 < kanzure> http://actualhardware.com/
16:50 < kanzure> (dave rauchwerk)
16:50 < kanzure> he used to run the machine shop at louissiana university, and then he decided to quit (this was /before/ he knew that his $2M grant request for a new line of CNC machines was approved)
16:51 < silverman> Is he doing good business?
16:51 < kanzure> he always has some new parts to show me wihen we meet up,
16:51 < kanzure> last time i checked it sounded like he was doing great
16:52 < kanzure> he wants to do all this too, i mean, he's on the same wavelength
16:52 < kanzure> he was thinking about picking up old rusted CNC machines and replacing their controllers
16:52 < kanzure> ben,[Bfenn is my room mate
16:52 < kanzure> - he used to work on the linuxcnc machine controller machine
16:52 < kanzure> er. project
16:52 < kanzure> god i hate my lag
16:53 < kanzure> so anyway, by redoing their controllers, we can have actualhardware.com hooked up to the shop and do some neat stuff. but i don't know- maybe there's some other opportunities somewhere.
16:54 < silverman> So I think I understand your deal, long-tail, open-source, mechatronics, the only piece I don't understand is the synthetic biology.
16:54 < silverman> I guess it's like me being interested in those things, plus typography.
16:54 < silverman> The bonus topic.
16:54 < kanzure> http://diybio.org/
16:54 < kanzure> do-it-yourself genetic engineering
16:54 < kanzure> open source hardware for lab experiments
16:55 < silverman> And you seem to find that really compelling.
16:55 < kanzure> also somewhat because of transhumanism: breaking past human limitations,  etc.
16:55 < kanzure> yeah, absolutely, do-it-yourself is the only way to get stuff done it seems
16:55 < silverman> Ah right I left singularity stuff off my list.
16:55 < kanzure> :)
16:56 < kanzure> well, the original purpose of all of this was to make a self-replicating machine (not a reprap) that actually self-replicated
16:56 < silverman> Actually I got off the Kurzweil train at Spiritual Machines, which I think was a good choice.
16:56 < kanzure> yes, me too
16:56 < silverman> Oh that's great.
16:56 < silverman> What a relief.
16:56 < kanzure> i mean, i got off at that too.
16:56 < kanzure> i sent him this terrible email and he kindly replied and offered his other book, but i just deleted the email
16:56 < silverman> Ha!
16:57 < kanzure> i don't think "intelligence" is the right focus for singularity-anything
16:57 < silverman> I thought he was an ass, but I guess I've changed my mind.
16:57 < kanzure> sure there may be accelerating change and so on, but that doesn't say anything about intelligence
16:57 < kanzure> so i think that manufacturing has a big role to play in making things
16:57 < kanzure> this is very anti-"let's move everything to the cloud and not understand it"
16:57 < silverman> I think the singularity is kind of bogus. I read a pretty convincing article about how everything that looks exponential just ends up being logistic.
16:58 < kanzure> ah, well
16:58 < silverman> And it's true. The logistic curve is everywhere.
16:58 < kanzure> there is a core argument to the singularity ininstitute's claims
16:58 < kanzure> they claim that that they should mke an ai first before anyone else does so that ai can be world dictator and stop unfriendly (anti-human) ai from popping up
16:58 < kanzure> so that when ai becomes smart enough to modify itself, and make itself smarter, it won't make itself smarter in a way that it would decide to kill all humans
16:58 < kanzure> now, i find this just as ridiculous as the next guy
16:59 < kanzure> i don't even know what intelligence is
16:59 < kanzure> but.. exponentials and logplots are interesting. especially when it comes to tech that makes itself (cells, machines, ..)
17:01 < silverman> So give me the main example of what you'd like to be able to do with diybio.
17:01 < kanzure> myostatin inhibitors to increase muscle mass growth in the human body
17:02 < kanzure> gene synthesis, gene sequencing (like of my own genome)
17:02 < silverman> And this is something you can do better at home?
17:02 < kanzure> i would be doing it at the 'fablab' remember?
17:02 < silverman> Don't get me wrong, I made my own coffee grinder.
17:02 < kanzure> i don't think it matters /where/ it happens
17:03 < silverman> But "wow the existing labs are really fucking that up" doesn't come to mind when I think of those topics.
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17:03 < kanzure> the existing labs are laregely inaccessible and they don't even publish wthe stuff that matters
17:03 < kanzure> wow yet another poorly worded paper
17:03 < kanzure> just give me the damn schematics and the software you wrote :(
17:04 < silverman> A myostatin inhibitor is likely to be a drug, not an organism, right?
17:04 < kanzure> that's right
17:04 < kanzure> oh you wanted an organism project? hm
17:04 < kanzure> well mereditrh patterson was working on glow-in-the-dark yogurt
17:04 < silverman> No, I just thought organisms were your interest.
17:04 < silverman> Your other two examples were organisms.
17:05 < kanzure> oops, sorry :)
17:05 < silverman> So you'd like to synthesize drugs at home?
17:05 < kanzure> gene synthesis isn't about organisms though
17:05 < silverman> Your body language about DNA orgami made it seem like you thought it was silly.
17:05 < kanzure> i mean, everything about biology is about cells i guess, but there are different ways to focus on the topics. there are genes and DNA, there's proteins and molecules, entire organisms, embryology, bioinformatics, metabolism, etc.
17:05 < kanzure> yeah that too
17:06 < kanzure> my body language is fucked up
17:06 < silverman> Mine, too. So you'd like to dabble in DNA origami?
17:06 < kanzure> one sec, paul rothemund spoke at UT a few weeks ago
17:06 < silverman> Oh by the way your fablab needs an SEM. Have you taken that course?
17:06 < kanzure> maybe, but i think there are some other topics that are more interesting. microfluidics maybe?
17:07 < kanzure> there's a course on SEMs here?
17:07 < kanzure> i was thinking about building an AFM
17:07 < genehacker> silverman you are in the ME building?
17:07 < silverman> Hell yes, and in the lab part you get a license to drive the SEM on 9.
17:07 < silverman> Yep.
17:07 < kanzure> someone in NJ i think(?) contacted me. he runs the IEEE club. he was going to be building some probe tips for an AFM
17:07 < genehacker> yes kanzure there is a course on SEM here
17:07 < silverman> Does AFM use piezo actuators?
17:08 < genehacker> you need to level up in order to take it
17:08 < kanzure> yes
17:08 < genehacker> what floor silverman?
17:08 < silverman> I sit on 3.
17:08 < genehacker> grad student I take it?
17:08 < silverman> Yeah, so I guess I already leveled up.
17:08 < silverman> I bet Ciulik would let you take it if you made a good case.
17:08 < kanzure> oh a grad student :) neat
17:09 < silverman> Hell yes, I hope to be DOCTOR rude douchebag in August.
17:09 < genehacker> heh I can put in a good word with ciulik
17:09 < silverman> Metoo.
17:09 < genehacker> Ciulik is a pretty cool guy, he encourages us to smash pennies in the rolling mill
17:10 < silverman> He's quite a cool guy.
17:10 < kanzure> ooh 
17:10 < kanzure> here we go
17:10 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/talks/2009-09-15-rothemund-utexas.html
17:10 < kanzure> this was the presentation by the DNA origami guy when he came to UT a feew weeks ago
17:10 < genehacker> he brought an air blaster into processing today and started shooting people when they left class
17:10 < kanzure> of course, i took the opportunity to type up what he said
17:10 < kanzure> so have fun
17:11 < silverman> I took these in our SEM. http://tinyurl.com/yecserc
17:11 < silverman> Is transcription like a tic or a policy?
17:11 < kanzure> will look when i have more than 5kb/sec bandwidth
17:11 < silverman> Ow
17:12 < kanzure> policy?
17:12 < silverman> Like, it's your personal policy to keep that kind of record.
17:12 < kanzure> more like a policy i think
17:12 < kanzure> "might as well. nobody else is"
17:12 < kanzure> also it's good to look back over them over the years
17:12 < kanzure> "hey i can really say that you never mentioned this ever in class" :p
17:12 < silverman> Ha
17:13 < kanzure> it's a good reality check
17:13 < genehacker> why's your bandwidth down?
17:13 < kanzure> uploading youtube vid
17:13 < kanzure> or vid to youtube
17:14 < kanzure> uploading anything takes forever on a residential connection
17:15 < genehacker> fair enough
17:17 < silverman> So if you can't make money even if the machines are fully booked, how can you make money?
17:17 < silverman> Only if the machines were free?
17:17 < kanzure> usuallconsulting, selling products, etc.
17:18 < kanzure> sigh. still lagging
17:18 < kanzure> usually consulting, selling products, working on outside projects, and generally getting a lot of bang for the buck
17:18 < silverman> That says to me that the fees for using the machines are too low.
17:18 < silverman> If selling their output produces much more money.
17:18 < kanzure> yeah but who would want to use the machines if you have these outrageous fees?
17:18 < kanzure> but what if they don't want to sell their output?
17:19 < silverman> Shouldn't using the machine cost as much as the produce they could have made in the same time?
17:19 < kanzure> basically i want an incubator or cacoon around a group of hackers
17:19 < kanzure> and all the money bullshit is dealt with, and these people are allowed to be awesome
17:20 < silverman> Yeah and that sounds good.
17:20 < kanzure> in many cases they will want to commercialize something, and in other cases, they want to go all open source hardware on it
17:20 < silverman> It just sounds like philanthropy has to be involved.
17:20 < silverman> I have an idea.
17:20 < kanzure> yes
17:20 < silverman> Austin has no technology museum/science center.
17:20 < kanzure> i hope it doesn't have to be
17:20 < kanzure> but so far it does sound like that, doesn't it?
17:20 < kanzure> yes we do. Chaoos Research Center
17:20 < kanzure> *Chaos Research Center
17:21 < silverman> What is that?
17:21 < silverman> Nothing on the web.
17:21 < silverman> Anyway, at the exploratorium they have a pretty excellent workshop for making the exhibits.
17:22 < kanzure> ohg maybe it died. anyway. continue? it was just this museum for science/tech, it had a giant workspace component
17:22 < silverman> And the exploratorium is a magnet for philanthropy and admission fees.
17:22 < silverman> So there's a front door where people consume a subset of what's made in the back.
17:22 < genehacker> so make an exploritorium/hackerspace in austin to get a hackerspace in austin?
17:22 < kanzure> i see
17:22 < silverman> Yeah.
17:23 < genehacker> the exploritorium people are professionals
17:23 < genehacker> they put a lot of work into those exhibits
17:23 < silverman> That's right.
17:23 < kanzure> so?
17:23 < silverman> I'm not talking about amateurs making exhibits.
17:24 < genehacker> making sure they are easy to maintenance, easy to understand, and such
17:24 < silverman> I'm talking about part of the shop's output is exhibits and part is for the Public Good (OSH) and part is goofing off.
17:24 < kanzure> that's not terrible
17:24 < kanzure> goofing off must be an important ingredient :) yes, of course
17:24  * kanzure puts in a work order for an ironman exoskeleton (ok, maybe thicker than a few inches)_
17:25 < silverman> Now I'm not sure the science center business model has room for a lot of goofing off. But maybe it does.
17:25 < genehacker> huh?
17:25 < silverman> There can also be some commercialization.
17:26 < kanzure> i thnk OSH/FOOSS is totally compatible with commercialization :)
17:26 < kanzure> *FOSS
17:26 < silverman> Because the goofing off would be crucial to the accomplishment of the other two objectives.
17:26 < kanzure> sigh. hey, i'm going to brb. or bbl. this typing thing sucks. i'll wait until i'm done uploading
17:26 < silverman> Okay.
17:30 < silverman> I'll also gtfo.
17:30 -!- silverman [n=chatzill@dhcp-84-116.me.utexas.edu] has left #hplusroadmap []
17:30 < kanzure> aw :(
17:31 < genehacker> who is this silverman guy?
17:31 < kanzure> :)
17:32 < genehacker> you and your low bandwidth
17:37 < genehacker> also leonids tonight, tesla coils on wednesday
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18:06 < kanzure> heh japanese x-men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnAUEnnRdEE
18:07 < ybit> 17:06 < silverman> Oh by the way your fablab needs an SEM. Have you taken that course?
18:09 < kanzure> so if i take the course i get an SEM. right :p
18:12 < ybit> i don't know if he wants his flickr account shared, but he has some pretty funny photos
18:13 < kanzure> tim?
18:13 < ybit> yeah
18:13 < ybit> and smari is working on upc codes 
18:14 < kanzure> why isn't he in here?
18:14 < ybit> Hi there Heath,
18:14 < ybit> I've been absurdly busy recently and not managed to do a lot of work
18:14 < ybit> on Tangible Bit proper; I have however been working on one aspect of it,
18:14 < ybit> which is market information extraction, in the form of an application
18:14 < ybit> for cellphones that uses the built in camera to act as a bar code
18:14 < ybit> scanner. This allows users to build shopping lists as they go and check
18:14 < ybit> prices against other stores, whilst using the users as agents to
18:14 < ybit> crowdsource a database about product availability and local pricing. It
18:14 < ybit> ties in to the Tangible Bit database in various ways; most importantly
18:14 < ybit> providing a relationship between EAN/UPC codes and object definitions.
18:14 < ybit> I've also been doing some work on a functional constructive solid
18:14 < ybit> geometry engine and a query engine for constraints (such as material
18:14 < ybit> constraints)... they have largely the same syntax, it's actually pretty
18:14 < ybit> cool, but there's a shit ton of work that still needs to be done.
18:14 < ybit> All my "spare" time this month has been funneled into travels, though,
18:14 < ybit> I'm afraid... and next month will be a lot of travels too. Hopefully
18:14 < ybit> things will settle down in January.
18:14 -!- johnnyk [n=johnnyk@cpe-66-68-110-40.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:14 < ybit> - Smári
18:14 < ybit> i dunno
18:15 < ybit> i don't really care for this bar code scanner idea of his, i'll let him know this too
18:15 < ybit> hi johnnyk 
18:15 < ybit> no point in it imho since if it's a price comparison he's after, it can be done online
18:16 -!- johnnyk [n=johnnyk@cpe-66-68-110-40.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit]
18:16 < kanzure> haha
18:16 < kanzure> so what's the deal with the random logouts
18:17 < ybit> there are two new guys who haven't logged out: zancas and hesaidcheesehead
18:18 < ybit> neither though are utexas
18:18 < kanzure> no i think hesaidcheesehead is ben peterson
18:18 < ybit> gotcha :)
18:18 < kanzure> be are be
18:19 < ybit> arrgh
18:21  * ybit keeps his mouth shut, upc/ean stuff might be helpful
18:22 < ybit> he's rebuilding opencascade it seems too
18:22 < ybit> really wish he wouldn't seperate his efforts
18:24 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE6E8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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18:31 < ybit> jeremiah petit may or may not show up for the h+ summit, if he does, we can knock off a few dollars each for the room
18:31 < ybit> back to wiki work
18:33 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit []
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18:42 < ybit> silverman: if you look on the diybio mailing list, i mentioned building a sem
18:42 < ybit> i think that's a far ways away though considering all the other projects that will take up time before it
18:44 < silverman> Yeah it shouldn't really be very hard, should it?
18:45 < silverman> I mean, you could make a crappy one out of an old CRT.
18:45 < ybit> haha, not exactly
18:46 < ybit> my thoughts originally were those too
18:46 < ybit> i have several old crt monitors taken apart for this very purpose
18:46 < silverman> Oh wow you're farther than I am.
18:46 < silverman> So what's the roadblock? The detector?
18:47 < silverman> brb
18:47 -!- silverman [n=chatzill@adsl-75-54-84-2.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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18:49 < zancas> im still here
18:49 < zancas> im just really sick toda
18:50 < kanzure> he's rebuilding opencascade?
18:50 < kanzure> why wouldn't he tell me about this?
18:51 < ybit> he's build a csg geometry and query engine, so not quite rebuilding opencascade, but more like building something similar ..probably so he doesn't have the dependencies to worry about
18:53 < kanzure> why not use brlcad's csg system
18:54 < ybit> oh right, occ is brep
18:55 < ybit> though it can do some csg? that confuses me
18:55 < kanzure> if you want to subtract two given solids, it can do that
18:55 < kanzure> csg/brep refers to internal representations of wtf is going on
18:56 < kanzure> in the end most people just see solids and think it's solid :)
18:57 < kanzure> i know fenn hates it, but the step importer i was writing could be a good base for doing brep/csg 
18:57 < kanzure> i.e., support all of the primitives and abilities that occ has with respect to iso 10303-214, and then go from there
18:58 < kanzure> what occ implemented of step214 rerally isn't that huge.. i mean, it's more than 50 features, but still.
19:00 < ybit> my first re search was for http://[w\\.-/]+\.?(?\w.-/])
19:00 < ybit> figure i need to learn it eventually
19:00 < kanzure> ?
19:00 < kanzure> your first search evar?
19:00 < ybit> well, using python's re, yes
19:01 < ybit> i have never messed with regular expressions, aside from a few basic ones in bash
19:02 < ybit> i'm adding re, sed, and awk to my skillset, reading a little bit on it each day
19:03 < kanzure> http://www.techsouls.com/projects/robosim/
19:03 < kanzure> anil made that
19:04 < ybit> i've used it before in the past, but this one i made up myself and i feel kind of proud of it, the rest, i've just googled for :P
19:04 < kanzure> really? i find that hard to believe
19:04 < kanzure> don't you spend a lot of time in text editors?
19:04 < ybit> emacs ftw
19:04 < kanzure> surely you know at least *.?
19:04 < ybit> of course, i think i've mentioned quite a few regexes on here
19:05 < kanzure> but you never knew what they meant?
19:05 < kanzure> oh man this is almost as bad as me :)
19:05 < kanzure> hehe
19:05 < ybit> i know a few bash reg.expressions
19:07 < ybit> and i googled for the python regex way back when i was messing with mechanize, anywho, i'm going to setup a template for the wiki
19:07 < kanzure> hm the "robosim" doesn't seem to do anything but switch views
19:07 < kanzure> what wiki?
19:08 < ybit> i thought you saw the pic i posted
19:08 < kanzure> nope
19:09 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/images/website.png
19:10 < kanzure> dunno about the profiles sidethingy
19:12 < ybit> i emailed the hatta guy, he made 0.0.0.0 the default interface instead of "", he said he'll fix it
19:12 < ybit> not that big of a deal, but i guess the point i was trying to make ( and i fail at it) is that he sounded like a nice guy
19:13 < ybit> yeah, i didn't know what could go there, but certainly something needs to
19:13 < ybit> i figure the social aspect of thingiverse is appealing to some
19:14 < ybit> and plus going 'social' or at least listing what equipment you have and what you are willing to make for others would be nice
19:17 < ybit> fenn, kanzure: any suggestions on sorting by category?
19:17 < ybit> that's going to be one massive list
19:17 < kanzure> i think you're crazy and should go back to work on the inventory representation
19:28 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-46-19.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:28 -!- [ym]uptown [n=uptown@159.153.140.10] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:28 < kanzure> hey [ym]uptown 
19:28 < [ym]uptown> hi
19:29 < kanzure> what's up?
19:29 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:30 < ybit> oi [ym]uptown 
19:34 < [ym]uptown> not much, refered by ybit :)
19:34 < [ym]uptown> so what's this channel about?
19:34 < ybit> taking over the world
19:35 < ybit> can we please make that the topic so we don't have to keep repeating ourselves, brain?
19:35 < [ym]uptown> haha
19:36 < ybit> 19:27 <[ym]uptown> you have a chance to let anybody else know about stiqr?
19:36 < ybit> 19:28 <ybit> i let others know on #hplusroadmap but they are all free open source software fanatics like  myself and want  source code
19:36 < ybit> 19:28 <[ym]uptown> cool cool
19:36 < ybit> 19:28 <[ym]uptown> we're debating the opensource idea :)
19:36 < ybit> or so i thought i mentioned it in here
19:37 < genehacker> did the upload finish?
19:38 < genehacker> do we have control of the central mainframe
19:42 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/test/test.html
19:42 < ybit> damn that's annoying
19:42 < kanzure> could you please stop working on silly templates and work on the inventory representation?
19:43 < kanzure> also the openmanufacturing.org link is wrongs
19:43 < ybit> why?
19:43 < ybit> ah, indeed
19:44 < kanzure> why? because that's what needs to be done?
19:45 < ybit> i was referring to openmanufacturing.org
19:45 < ybit> i thought we already talked about what i would be doing from now until a little before december
19:45 < ybit> putting up the site and creating a .deb
19:45 < kanzure> so no .deb, no egg? no inventory representation?
19:46 < kanzure> why did the name change to fabhow?
19:46 < ybit> because there are three other companies with the name omnifab, and the one in (i believe it's) washington work would be doing similar work
19:46 < ybit> building custom manufactured parts
19:47 < ybit> -work
19:53 < [ym]uptown> :)
19:53 < [ym]uptown> you know, i've taken a look at this site and I still don't understand what it is
19:54 < [ym]uptown> and what is skdb?
19:54 < drazak> [ym]uptown: I've been asking that for 4 months and still haven't gotten a straight answer
19:55 < ybit> haha, it's the societal-engineering knowledge database
19:55 < [ym]uptown> lol
19:55 < ybit> the sum of man's useful knowledge at your fingertips
19:55 < drazak> except it's empty
19:55 < ybit> ..or it will be
19:55 < [ym]uptown> is there anything I can do to help?
19:56 < [ym]uptown> it sounds big.
19:56 < [ym]uptown> :)
19:56 < ybit> massive is the word actually
19:56 < [ym]uptown> haha
19:56 < ybit> what do you have to offer?
19:56 < [ym]uptown> i'm a phpcoder
19:56 < [ym]uptown> been freelancing for about 5+ years
19:56 < ybit> that would be wonderful, i suck at webdev
19:57 < [ym]uptown> so who else are working with you?
19:57 < ybit> well, fenn has written a large portion of the code in skdb
19:57 < ybit> and kanzure has helped
19:58 < [ym]uptown> skdb.
19:58 < ybit> they have both worked on it while at the automated design lab in austin, tx
19:58 < [ym]uptown> is there a site for it?
19:58 < ybit> i have done squat except talk about it, attempt to build a site, and attempt to build a .deb.. i have actually installed pythonocc, occ, skdb, and have it running which is a feat in itself
19:59 < [ym]uptown> what's occ?
19:59 < [ym]uptown> and again, what is skdb?
19:59 < ybit> opencascade
19:59 < [ym]uptown> ah this is about modeling?
20:00 < ybit> [ym]uptown: see the topic for a link to the description
20:01 < ybit> if you want something, you download it to your computer and if you have the machinery, it is automatically built for you
20:01 < ybit> ..in theory, right now, instructions are printed out for you
20:01 < ybit> ..well, not even now, but soon! :)
20:03 < ybit> drazak: what do you not know silly?
20:03 < genehacker> inventory representation?
20:03 < ybit> what about it?
20:04 < ybit> i would explain, but i have a feeling you know what it is genehacker 
20:05 < genehacker> the inventory of ?
20:05 < ybit> 'do you have a reprap' 'o wonderful, now let's make some lego bricks'
20:05 < genehacker> useful knowledge
20:05 < genehacker> cad files?
20:05 < ybit> listing of machines, tools, and materials from the owner
20:06 < ybit> s/from the owner/the owner has
20:06 < ybit> s/owner/user
20:06 < genehacker> ok
20:07 < ybit> [ym]uptown: you still here?
20:08 < [ym]uptown> sorry
20:09 < [ym]uptown> at work
20:09 < kanzure> no we're not doing php web development ybit, i thought you knew this
20:09 < kanzure> ybit: you suck at explaining skdb
20:09 < [ym]uptown> so how do i get this machine?
20:09 < ybit> kanzure: :P
20:09 < kanzure> god i hate people
20:09 < [ym]uptown> hahah
20:09 < [ym]uptown> you guys close?
20:09 < kanzure> to what
20:09 < drazak> ybit: I kinda know
20:09 < [ym]uptown> to each other
20:10 < kanzure> a lot of the time is spent yelling at ybit for doing stupid shit
20:10 < [ym]uptown> who's leading this project?
20:10 < ybit> we know each other throught this channel, but some people go ass-fucking kanzure on occassion
20:10 < ybit> i.e. afk
20:10 < kanzure> [ym]uptown: i guess i am. fenn does too a lot.
20:11 < [ym]uptown> cool
20:11 < drazak> kanzure: what else is new
20:11 < kanzure> it's a way of downloading hardware from the web
20:11 < kanzure> drazak: hm?
20:11 < kanzure> drazak: i don't know how many times i've told you this
20:11 < kanzure> but i think it's "many"
20:11 < kanzure> maybe you just don't understand things?
20:12 < drazak> no
20:12 < [ym]uptown> very interesting idea
20:12 < [ym]uptown> saw something like this on ted before.
20:12 < kanzure> :)
20:12 < drazak> I'm saying you being the leader is "what else is new"
20:12 < kanzure> yeah it was probably neil gershenfeld
20:12 < [ym]uptown> well
20:12 < [ym]uptown> i'd love to help
20:12 < kanzure> well i think i spend a lot of time leading or acting like i'm leading
20:12 < kanzure> so does fenn.. it's not really fenn
20:12 < kanzure> i mean
20:12 < ybit> kanzure talks a lot
20:12 < kanzure> it's not really an official leader position
20:12 < kanzure> because there aren't positions
20:12 < kanzure> i'm just grumpy
20:12 < [ym]uptown> i think you guys need a designer :)
20:13 < kanzure> i need someone who actually knows css
20:13 < ybit> i agree!
20:13 < kanzure> and doesn't fucking bullshit me
20:13 < kanzure> either you know it well or you don't
20:13 < kanzure> man.
20:13 < [ym]uptown> ybit: any idea you didn't go with a traditional design?
20:13 < ybit> because i suck at life
20:13 < kanzure> i just spent the last three days fighting with people who thought they knew how to do design..
20:13 < kanzure> [ym]uptown: web2.0ier look would be cool :)
20:13 < ybit> [ym]uptown: what do you mean by traditional?
20:14 < ybit> indeed
20:14 < [ym]uptown> ybit: like a normal site :).
20:14 < [ym]uptown> ybit: the current design looks very uncommon and out there
20:14 < kanzure> sorry what's a normal site?
20:14 < [ym]uptown> just something clean :)
20:14 < [ym]uptown> that's what 2.0 really is
20:14 < ybit> [ym]uptown: see http://ybit.ath.cx/images/website.png for my latest design.. it needs to go in the wiki direction imho 
20:14 < [ym]uptown> other than all the other features that come with it
20:14 < kanzure> ybit: can you just stop with this design crap and get back to work?
20:14 < kanzure> please?
20:15 < [ym]uptown> :)
20:15 < ybit> well, you did use the magic word
20:15 < kanzure> ..
20:15 < [ym]uptown> trying look at some of the predesigned CSS templates and just work off of that.
20:15 < [ym]uptown> makesy our live a lot easier.
20:15 < kanzure> no
20:15 < genehacker> CSS doesn't help me build robots
20:15 < kanzure> god that's what all these wackos did
20:15 < kanzure> "yeah we just steal layouts"
20:15 < kanzure> wtf
20:15 < silverman> Ha I was there.
20:16 < kanzure> yeah i know :)
20:16 < silverman> And that's how it happened.
20:16 < kanzure> i don't think you stole any layouts though
20:16 < silverman> Correct! I was mostly doing puzzles during that phase of the operation. http://www.collegepuzzlechallenge.com/
20:16 < ybit> :P
20:16 < genehacker> so that's what 3day startup is all about
20:17 < genehacker> huh what did I miss?
20:17 < kanzure> that's not what it's about
20:18 < ybit> it seems like a great way to.. make contacts maybe?
20:18 < ybit> work on a site that might give you some income while in college?
20:18 < kanzure> well they actually start you a company and give you the legal infrastructure
20:19 < ybit> legal infrawhat exactly?
20:19 < kanzure> meh
20:19 < ybit> i.e. someone does all the drudge work of filling our tax forms for you, that would be nice for a change
20:19 < ybit> s/our/out
20:19 < kanzure> no
20:20 < kanzure> they just wave a magic wand and hope you give them ip
20:20 < kanzure> "IP"
20:20 < ybit> boo!
20:20 < kanzure> it's ok, i didn't give them anything :)
20:20 < genehacker> nice
20:20 < genehacker> so does your company real yet?
20:20 < kanzure> sorry, what?
20:20 < ybit> s/does/is
20:20 < kanzure> can you please speak english
20:20 < kanzure> what is 'real'?
20:21 < ybit> he's doing better than me, give him some slack :)
20:21 < silverman> Yes! I had the same impression about the wand.
20:21 < genehacker> do you a gene synthesis company
20:21 < kanzure> no
20:21 < kanzure> gene synthesis was never the idea
20:21 < ybit> genehacker: i told you they didn't except it
20:21 < genehacker> bidding company
20:21 < kanzure> no
20:21 < ybit> right, no
20:21 < silverman> When I signed the "we own everything you create this weekend" contract I thought, "well I guess I'm not creating anything this weekend".
20:21 < genehacker> damn
20:21 < kanzure> silverman: heh :)
20:21 < ybit> :)
20:21 < genehacker> oh shit
20:21 < genehacker> they do that?
20:22 < genehacker> I should have known
20:22 < silverman> Oh yes that contract is pretty serious.
20:22 < ybit> i have to go trash some floor tiles, unless anybody wants them?
20:22 < ybit> no takers? okay brb
20:22 < silverman> What kind?
20:22 < ybit> fake wood
20:22 < silverman> New?
20:22 < [ym]uptown> ybit: http://layouts.ironmyers.com/
20:22 -!- Richard [n=chatzill@dhcp-198-149.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:22 < silverman> No, what am I thinking, I don't want them.
20:22 < silverman> Thank you.
20:22 < kanzure> hey Richard 
20:22 < ybit> nope, about 600 sq ft of old fake wood
20:22 < ybit> okay, brb
20:23 -!- Richard is now known as Guest39700
20:23 < silverman> Is that /the/ richard?
20:23 < [ym]uptown> http://woot.com/
20:23 < silverman> Not anymore!
20:23 < Guest39700> hi bryan
20:23 < [ym]uptown> got a good clean feel
20:23 < genehacker> another utexas
20:23 < kanzure> [ym]uptown: if you want examples please see http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/sites-layouts
20:28 -!- silverman_ [n=chatzill@adsl-75-54-84-2.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:28 -!- silverman [n=chatzill@adsl-75-54-84-2.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:28 -!- silverman_ is now known as silverman
20:29 < kanzure> just added http://cssremix.com/visit/ballpark/ to the list
20:30 < kanzure> Guest39700: use "/nick richard2" to change your username
20:30 -!- Guest39700 is now known as richard2
20:30 < genehacker> I presume these are people you met in 3day start up kanzure?
20:31 < richard2> I'm from 3 day startup!
20:31 < ybit> oi richard2 
20:31 < silverman> Riiichard
20:31 < silverman> Richard laughs on command
20:31 < silverman> Or also without command
20:32 < genehacker> so I hear 3 day startup gets your IP in return for helping you make a startup?
20:32  * ybit tickles CIA-43 
20:32  * ybit hugs CIA-43 
20:32 < richard2> who is ybit?
20:32  * CIA-43 hugs ybit
20:32  * ybit is a bot
20:32 < richard2> hahaaaahahhahahahahhahaha
20:32 < richard2> I like robots
20:33 < kanzure> ybit stalks me all the way from alabama
20:33 -!- tabs [i=cbceeb51@gateway/web/freenode/x-xbrdvxzyxjzkusdy] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:33 < kanzure> hey tabs
20:33 < ybit> on my dial-up modem
20:33 < ybit> oi tabs, glad you could join us
20:33 < kanzure> so, richard, i was surprised that everything worked for the presentation
20:33 < kanzure> did you print out the pdf?
20:33 < kanzure> i looked around on the server and didn't see the pdf
20:33 < richard2> well, no
20:33 < tabs> thanks :)
20:34 < richard2> only the image upload worked
20:34 < richard2> we just printed the image
20:34 < kanzure> blah.
20:34 < kanzure> i see
20:34 < kanzure> well that needs some more testing
20:34 < ybit> tabs here might be able to help us with web design as well
20:34 < kanzure> ybit: sorry but you suck at web design. i don't trust your friends either
20:34 < tabs> lol
20:34 < silverman> One time the server unexpectedly made a 42-byte pdf.
20:35 < kanzure> silverman: wait, do you have an account?
20:35 < kanzure> er
20:35 < kanzure> who are you?
20:35 < kanzure> tim?
20:35 < silverman> Yeah.
20:35 < ybit> no offense taken, i like to start out introuducing myself to others by letting them know i suck at life
20:35 < kanzure> silverman: i don't think i met you
20:35 < ybit> then nobody expects much from me
20:35 < ybit> tabs is http://nomzz.spot.bz/
20:35 < silverman> Well I met you.
20:35 < kanzure> i'm sure he stole the layout
20:35 < tabs>  url: http://nomzz.spot.bz/j
20:35 < kanzure> silverman: ok. i was probably sleep deprived, i'm sorry
20:35 < silverman> Maybe it's not commutative? Is that the word?
20:36 < kanzure> soemthing like that
20:36 < kanzure> something
20:36 < kanzure> ok that was a legitimate typo
20:36 < silverman> No just continue blaming youtube upload.
20:36 < silverman> We'll believe it.
20:36 < kanzure> nope, that stopped hours ago
20:36 < kanzure> it turns out they only want 10min videos
20:36 < kanzure> and i had this ~hour presentation
20:36 < silverman> Oh shit that was for nothing?
20:36 < ybit> tabs: see the topic for an intro to skdb, and here's my attempt at a short description of what it is: a repostiroy for hardware designs with the goal of automating the construction of the designs
20:37 < silverman> Anyway no I don't have an account, I have the same test account Richard had.
20:37 < kanzure> ok
20:37 < kanzure> richard had his own account btw
20:37 < kanzure> but i don't think he remembered
20:37 < kanzure> oh, he's in here
20:37 < silverman> Aha.
20:37 < kanzure> hi richard2
20:37 < silverman> Yeah he's here, and quiet.,
20:37 < silverman> Is there an IRC client for the iPhone? Then he'd be less quiet.
20:37 < kanzure> anyway, i'll be happy to throw you up an account
20:37 < richard2> hahaa
20:37 < tabs> ok ybit got it
20:37 < richard2> hahahahahhahahahahhahahahaha
20:37 -!- johnnyk [n=johnnyk@wireless-128-62-71-93.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:37 < silverman> Don't worry about it, I have very, very little to contribute to that business.
20:38 < kanzure> hey johnnyk 
20:38 < genehacker> don't you know that youtube only accepts 8 minute videos?
20:38 < silverman> I am not really a programmer.
20:38 < kanzure> genehacker: 10min
20:38 < kanzure> silverman: ah i see
20:38 < genehacker> oh
20:38 < genehacker> big mistake
20:38 < johnnyk> hey kanzure
20:38 < kanzure> so while i was sitting on my throne today
20:38 < kanzure> i realized that we should have all used separate cherrypy servers
20:38 < kanzure> because they allow really really rapid web development
20:38 < kanzure> we were using just one giant server
20:38 < kanzure> integrated into apache
20:38 < kanzure> but there's no reason it couldn't have been done with everyone having their own tiny server
20:38 < kanzure> since the code could all be thrown together in the end
20:39 < kanzure> oh well. lesson learned
20:39 < silverman> Why would that be better?
20:39 < kanzure> cherrypy comes with a built-in server
20:39 < kanzure> i integrated it immediately with apache
20:39 < ybit> and its pythonic
20:39 < kanzure> so the website is running the version up on apache
20:39 < kanzure> but it could have just been "iphone image uploader" or something, and someone else could have done a python interface to paypal for another cherrypy server
20:39 < kanzure> and then copy-pasta the code together when we were all ready to integrate
20:39 < kanzure> anyway
20:40 < kanzure> this is the video that i was uploading:
20:40 < kanzure> http://igem.uwaterloo.ca/Video:Hessel
20:40 < kanzure> 220MB :(
20:41 < kanzure> silverman, richard2: this guy might sound a little bit like cameron houser
20:41 -!- johnnyk [n=johnnyk@wireless-128-62-71-93.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
20:41 < kanzure> even though his idea is different
20:47 < genehacker> so you are going ahead with the gene synthesis bidding plan?
20:50 < ybit> yes, i will bug him until he does
20:51 < silverman> I have a question on that topic.
20:51 < silverman> He said the machine is cheap and the chemicals are cheap in bulk.
20:51 < genehacker> what machine?
20:51 < genehacker> the synthesis machine?
20:51 < silverman> Yeah.
20:52 < ybit> silverman: carry on..
20:52 < silverman> So why not buy a machine and organize the small-time synthesis customers into a big cohort yourself?
20:52 < genehacker> well uh we could make one
20:52 < silverman> Rather than organize them and then hand their business to someone else for the commission?
20:52 < genehacker> but it might be illegal
20:52 < silverman> Illegal to do what?
20:52 < genehacker> you know what a DLP chip is?
20:52 < silverman> Yep.
20:53 < genehacker> well you can use one to make a DNA synthesis machine
20:53 < ybit> silverman: i think with the bidding process, we could force the price to drop quicker
20:53 < ybit> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/cherrypy/wsgiserver/__init__.py
20:53 < genehacker> it might be possible to use a DLP projector to do DNA synthesis
20:53 < silverman> genehacker: Oh that's cool, how?
20:53 < genehacker> but the problem is, this might violate a patent
20:53 < kanzure> genehacker: stfu
20:53 < kanzure> who cares about patents?
20:54 < silverman> ybit: Drop quicker than if you just cut the profit margin to the minimum?
20:54 < ybit> kanzure, fenn what do you have for line 1470 of the file above?
20:54 < silverman> Patents are important if rich people hold them.
20:54 < ybit> for the _bind_addr variable
20:54 < kanzure> silverman: patents are important if you sell something
20:54 < genehacker> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/11df41fe0002c06b/5f77c7fab381e5ed?lnk=gst&q=dlp+projector#5f77c7fab381e5ed
20:54 < silverman> The exclusive right is to make, use, sell or import.
20:54 < kanzure> yeah but that's kind of crazy when there's 100+ trillion cells on the planet already doing it
20:54 < kanzure> "prior art"
20:55 < silverman> So that covers that class of patents.
20:55 < kanzure> *doing DNA synthesis
20:55 < silverman> But not every patent.
20:55 < kanzure> why would you do that?
20:55 < kanzure> or support that ?
20:55 < silverman> Do what now?
20:55 -!- ras [n=chatzill@dhcp-198-149.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:55 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-46-19.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:55 < kanzure> why would you support this about patents, i mean
20:55 < kanzure> hey ras :)
20:55 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-46-19.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:55 < kanzure> it sounds very counter-productive
20:55 < genehacker> are there?
20:55 < silverman> I'm just explaining that you don't have to sell a patented invention to break the law.
20:56 < kanzure> i'm sure i'm breaking the law right now, somehow
20:56 < silverman> And I made no statement about what I support.
20:56 < kanzure> that's how it is isn't it?
20:56 < genehacker> you are
20:56 < kanzure> lovely
20:56 < genehacker> and silverman is too probably
20:56 < silverman> Oya
20:56 < kanzure> ybit: 127.0.0.1
20:56 < genehacker> who cares though
20:56 < kanzure> so yeah
20:56 < genehacker> anyway now what were we talking about
20:56 < kanzure> silverman: the reason why was because i wasn't thinking about that :)
20:56 < ybit> okay, that's what i have, guess i'll have to look somewhere else then
20:56 < genehacker> point is we could probably make an DNA synthesizer
20:56 < kanzure> silverman: the other big reason is that they won't ship me the chemicals
20:57 < kanzure> i'd have to synthesize them from scratch
20:57 < genehacker> you could incorporate
20:57 < kanzure> and i currently don't know how to do that competently
20:57 < ras> my name is already in use :(
20:57 < silverman> That's right, we have to register every fkn beaker in Texas.
20:57 < kanzure> ras: quick, use /nick blah to change it
20:57 < genehacker> robots automation society?
20:57 < ras> yah...Chad is already in use
20:57 < kanzure> hey chad :)
20:57 < richard2>  hey chad!
20:57 < ras> hola
20:57 < genehacker> chad2 perhaps?
20:58 < ras> awww...i has better idea
20:58 -!- ras is now known as Chad0
20:58 < Chad0> huzah
20:58 < kanzure> Chad0: http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ http://biobricks.org/ http://syntheticbiology.org/ http://partsregistry.org/
20:58 < genehacker> kanzure if you incorporate, they will most definately ship the chemicals to you
20:58 < kanzure> genehacker: no there are other regulations
20:58 < genehacker> crap there are?
20:58 < kanzure> yeah lots of inspection details iirc
20:58 < kanzure> let me look it up though
20:58 < kanzure> silverman: would that be a good excuse?
20:59 < genehacker> what did the polynucleotide synthesis consortium draft some new rules or something?
20:59 < Chad0> thanks bryan!
20:59 < silverman> Yes, if you're unable to legally obtain the chemicals, that's a good excuse.
20:59 < kanzure> Chad0: yeah, i'm full of all sorts of fun links
20:59 < Chad0> i mean brian
20:59 < Chad0> sorry...
20:59 < kanzure> no, bryan
20:59 < Chad0> oh crap
20:59 < Chad0> i really meant bryan
21:00 < genehacker> anyway so how do we make the reactors for making the chemicals and by make the chemicals from scratch how deep into that process do you want to go?
21:00 < kanzure> i thought i already told you?
21:00 < kanzure> blah if i have to repeat myself every day this is going to get ridiculous, genehacker
21:00 < kanzure> there's probably a link in that thread you linked to
21:00 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/11df41fe0002c06b/5f77c7fab381e5ed?lnk=gst&q=dlp+projector#5f77c7fab381e5ed
21:01 < silverman> Is it illegal to buy the chemicals but legal to buy them?
21:01 < silverman> Sorry, legal to make them?
21:01 < kanzure> it's probably also illegal to make them without the right permits
21:01 < genehacker> ok then, how do you suggest we make a microfluidic microfactory?
21:01 < kanzure> one of the reactions involves phosgene
21:01 < silverman> Aha
21:01 < genehacker> yup yup
21:01 < kanzure> but it can maybe be avoided
21:02 < genehacker> err....
21:02 < kanzure> like in non-phosphoramidite reactions
21:02 < genehacker> not so sure about that kanzure
21:02 < kanzure> er non-phosphoramidite oligonucleotide/gene synthesis
21:02 < genehacker> let me dig up the reactions I've mapped out
21:03 < genehacker> yeah and HF if you want to make it from scratch
21:03 < kanzure> some relevant papers
21:03 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/Oligonucleotide%20on-chip%20synthesis%20using%20PDMS%20stamp.pdf
21:03 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/Review%20-%20Gene%20synthesis%20demystified%20-%202008.pdf
21:03 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/Synthesis%20of%20amphiphilic%20graphene%20nanoplatelets.pdf
21:03 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/Synthesis%20of%20novel%20phosphoramidite%20building%20blocks%20from%20pentaerythritol.pdf
21:03 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/The%20Efficiency%20of%20Light-Directed%20Synthesis%20of%20DNA%20Arrays%20on%20Glass%20Substrates.pdf
21:04 < kanzure> that should be good for a while
21:05 < genehacker> are we actually considering starting a DNA synthesis company?
21:05 < kanzure> no
21:06 < kanzure> none of us can do it
21:06 < kanzure> so i don't think starting a company around something we can't do is a good idea
21:06 < genehacker> ok
21:06 < genehacker> then what do you propose doing
21:06 < kanzure> well i was working on a gene synthesis bidding website
21:06 < kanzure> ybit made some calls too
21:07 < genehacker> so have you been able to get any agreements with gene synthesis companies?
21:07 < kanzure> there's potentially some work with one, yes
21:08 < genehacker> ok
21:09 < genehacker> you might consider screening the submitted DNA sequence to make sure it isn't bad, IE not a dangerous terrorist bioweapon
21:09 < genehacker> that'd give you some leverage
21:09 < kanzure> why would that give me leverage?
21:09 < kanzure> nobody would want to use it because it might say they can't make whatever it is they are making
21:09 < genehacker> especially because DNA synthesis companies don't want to screen DNA
21:09 < kanzure> then why would they want me to screen it?
21:09 < genehacker> and governments do
21:09 < kanzure> governments do since when ?
21:09 < kanzure> don't believe the hype
21:10 < genehacker> there was a big talk about DNA screening procedures
21:11 < genehacker> http://pgen.us/ICPS.htm
21:11 < kanzure> sigh i'm sorry but i'm not really understanding you
21:11 < kanzure> there's been talks about a billion and one things in this world..
21:11 < genehacker> oh well
21:11 < genehacker> all that matters is you get agreements with gene synthesis companies
21:11 < genehacker> which it looks like you're doing
21:12 < kanzure> Chad0: so what's up?
21:12 < ybit> drr, python hatta.py -i 127.0.0.1
21:12 < kanzure> i wish hatta-wiki.org would use anyvcs or at least have git support :)
21:12 < kanzure> also their url scheme is kind of funky
21:12 < kanzure> wonky
21:13 < kanzure> oh well. that's something that's worth doing
21:22 < silverman> night
21:22 -!- silverman [n=chatzill@adsl-75-54-84-2.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:25 < kanzure> Chad0: like the links?
22:06 -!- richard2 [n=chatzill@dhcp-198-149.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:16 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/genebay-test.html
22:18 < ybit> not bad
22:19 < ybit> http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/StaticContent
22:19 < ybit> http://tools.cherrypy.org/wiki/FastCGIWSGI
22:19 < ybit> kanzure: wasn't sure if you were aware of them
22:19 < kanzure> no, i fixed :)
22:20 < kanzure> also staticcontent is a good page
22:20 < kanzure> #cherrypy sucks
22:20 < ybit> indeed
22:20 < ybit> but fuckmandu or whatever his name was helpful like you said
22:24 -!- zancas_ [n=zancas@c-71-239-125-152.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:26 < kanzure> hey zancas_ 
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23:00 < ybit> oi Uptownhr 
23:01 < ybit> i think most of us are busy right now
23:01 < Uptownhr> hi
23:01 < ybit> but check out the topic for details on what SKDB is
23:01 < Uptownhr> its coo
23:01 < Uptownhr> lol
23:01 < Uptownhr> nice update.
23:01 < Uptownhr> but still not informative....
23:02 < ybit> skdb is a repository for hardware designs with a goal of automating manufacturing of the designs
23:03 < Uptownhr> you provide a link to something that describes and informs people of what "automated manufacturing" is
23:03 < Uptownhr> like a wiki page or something
23:03 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automation
23:03 < Uptownhr> lol
23:03 < ybit> in particular: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automation#Automated_manufacturing
23:04 < Uptownhr> there we go
23:04 < ybit> i.e. 'hey computer i want a new car' *plump* 'you're welcome now leave me alone while fsck myself' 
23:05 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fsck#Use_as_profanity
23:06 < ybit> but in the simplest cases, you will probably ask for various types of screws and lego blocks 
23:09 < ybit> let's say someone designed an atomic force microscope from lego blocks made of polyactic acid (this would probably come from something like the reprap ( www.reprap.org )).. and let's say they submitted it into the database and you wanted it. well click the pretty icon on the webpage that says 'download me' or grab it from a commandline prompt, and if you have a reprap, it should automatically communicate to it what to build, and if the system is proper
23:11 < ybit> woah, that's too many "it's", if you are confused, i'll explain further
23:12 < Uptownhr> haha
23:12 < Uptownhr> no i'm good
23:12 < Uptownhr> i get it
23:12 < ybit> great, now who are you? :P
23:13 < Uptownhr> this is uptwon
23:13 < Uptownhr> ym
23:13 < Uptownhr> on a different computer
23:13 < ybit> ah, gotcha
23:14 < ybit> the lack of [ym] threw me for a loop
23:16 < ybit> i think something like hatta wiki is what we are needing, we don't need really need anything fancy, though some good web designers would certainly be welcome.. and it would be nice to have a simple login system implemented on top of it as well
23:17 < ybit> ignore grammar from this sleep-deprived mind
23:18  * ybit is afk for 30 mins