--- Day changed Sun Dec 13 2009
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00:15 < kanzure> hello MrClif 
00:21 < MrClif> Hello hows it going?
00:21 < kanzure> :)
00:21 < MrClif> Heath told me about his channel.
00:22 < Redeemer> Glad to see word has spread.
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00:23 < kanzure> if you want there are channel logs from the past few years
00:23 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/hplusroadmap.log.tar.gz
00:23 < katsmeow-afk> scarey
00:23 < kanzure> a list of links we've talked about: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/hplusroadmap-urls.txt
00:23 < genehacker2> Hmmm... I should tell one of classmates who happens to be a microcontroller demigeek about this channel
00:23 < MrClif> ok I'll book mark those thanks.
00:24 < MrClif> I'm also friends with some of the fab at home guys.
00:24 < kanzure> hod?
00:24 < genehacker2> evan malone?
00:24 < kanzure> screw evan. we want hod :)
00:25 < genehacker2> aren't they working on version 2.0
00:25 < genehacker2> have you read his recent work kanzure?
00:25 < kanzure> hod's? yes
00:25 < MrClif> Don't think I know him but... yes I've emailed even. but mostly Turlif and his dad Carl.
00:25 < genehacker2> about digital materials 
00:25 < kanzure> wait wait, don't distract me
00:25 < kanzure> i'm writing
00:25 < genehacker2> what class?
00:25 < kanzure> no, it's a paper for a conference
00:26 < genehacker2> what conference?
00:27 < MrClif> Say, is there a problem with freefab.org?
00:27 < kanzure> MrClif: you should probably just look at http://openmanufacturing.org/ instead
00:27 < kanzure> genehacker2: http://designconference.org/
00:28 < genehacker2> Croatia?
00:28 < MrClif> So is freefab dead?
00:28 < genehacker2> dang
00:28 < genehacker2> good luck
00:28 < kanzure> MrClif: there was never any content on that site
00:28 < MrClif> ok
00:28 < kanzure> check the /topic for some links that aren't quite as dead
00:29 < MrClif> got it, thx..
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00:35 < kanzure> i didn't mean for him to go away
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00:43 < kanzure> woah
00:43 < kanzure> wtf
00:43 < kanzure> Spatiotemporal control of cell signalling using a light-switchable protein interaction
00:43 < kanzure> Nature 461, 997-1001 (15 October 2009) | doi:10.1038/nature08446;
00:43 < kanzure> Received 8 July 2009; Accepted 24 August 2009; Published online 13
00:43 < kanzure> September 2009
00:43 < kanzure> lead author: our friend anselm :-)
00:43 < kanzure> yay anselm
00:44 < Redeemer> Sounds related to his talk at H+
00:44 < fenn> he's doing awesome work, not surprised it's in nature
00:46 < kanzure> weird i think he's the first lead author of a nature paper that i personally know.. or knew before i realized he was a nature paper author or something
00:47 < kanzure> as if that means something. i guess it's just cool trivia
00:51 < kanzure> here it is: http://designfiles.org/papers/Spatiotemporal%20control%20of%20cell%20signalling%20using%20a%20light-switchable%20protein%20interaction.pdf
00:52 < kanzure> his talk: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/hplus-summit-2009/ansyem.html
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00:55 < kanzure> hello lee
00:55 < kanzure> technologicle1: we were just talking about http://designfiles.org/papers/Spatiotemporal%20control%20of%20cell%20signalling%20using%20a%20light-switchable%20protein%20interaction.pdf
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01:09 < technologicle1> how ironic - i was searching through my email and was looking at a similar thread http://groups.google.com/group/diytranshumanist/browse_thread/thread/113abbd0778f488?hl=en
01:10 < technologicle1> actually i think it is about this article..
01:10 < kanzure> same thing
01:10 < kanzure> #hplusroadmap is about 5 to 10 minutes ahead
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01:13 < kanzure> hello EmbraceUnity
01:13  * kanzure sleeps
01:13 < EmbraceUnity> goodnight
01:14 < technologicle1> also my google alert for molecular assembler turned up this result for a cell blueprint http://biosingularity.wordpress.com/2009/11/27/first-ever-blueprint-of-a-minimal-cell-is-more-complex-than-expected/
01:16 < technologicle1> my joke is that i am ahead of my time, but only by 2 minutes - so i gotta move quick
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01:33 < technologicle1> ok - i read the article - now what to do with the information?
01:43 < fenn> pff that article is so last week
01:46 < fenn> technologicle1: ok now take a bunch of mutated dna polymerases and make a light-controlled in-vivo DNA synthesis machine
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02:42 < technologicle1> oohhh  - nice !
02:43 < technologicle1> but,   what would the light control be used for?
02:49 < technologicle1> also - i was not clear which part induced the light sensitivity - what is the sequence for that?
02:49 < technologicle1> is this within DIY capability?
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04:26 < fenn> it's standard restriction enzyme stuff, so depending on your definition of "DIY capability" probably not
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11:49 < ybit> hi MrClif 
11:50 < ybit> fenn: what was anselm talking to you about
11:50 < ybit> ..at the party
11:50 < ybit> he was intense
11:53 < MrClif> Howdy Hackers. :-)
11:53 < MrClif> I was just watching the youtube SKDB series.
11:57 < kanzure> MrClif: cool :) like?
11:58 < MrClif> Yes very cool!
11:58 < kanzure> for some reason people in france and the netherlands like the videos
11:59 < Utopiah> yes, we do
11:59 < kanzure> Utopiah: where are you from?
11:59 < MrClif> Say I mentioned this to Heath, I have some pretty capable servers over at Paul Vixies place (ISC) that are very underutilised.
11:59 < ybit> switzerland, no?
11:59 < Utopiah> France
11:59 < kanzure> Utopiah: aha
11:59 < kanzure> so it's you :)
11:59 < kanzure> well you guys are 13% of the views
11:59 < kanzure> MrClif: neat, servers are always wonderful
11:59 < Utopiah> well, I watched the 3 videos but only once
11:59 < Utopiah> probably shared it with some local friends but not 500 
12:00 < ybit> MrClif: would you mind hosting papers and books on those servers? :-)
12:00 < Utopiah> (guess I could with the local H+ chapter though, doing it now then)
12:00 < MrClif> not at all bring it on.
12:00 < ybit> okie doke, prepare for the onslaught then 
12:00 < MrClif> ;-)
12:01 < kanzure> MrClif: a mirror of http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/ would be hot
12:01 < ybit> well, i'm off on a 4 hour trip, fingers crossed i finish up the .deb today -_-
12:01 < Utopiah> (regarding Switzerland I hope my CERN booking will work out, fingers crossed)
12:01 < MrClif> ummmm those papers woundn't have any (C) intaglements woud they? :-/
12:01 < kanzure> you people and your fingers
12:01 < kanzure> MrClif: and you think books wouldn't?
12:01 < kanzure> MrClif: but anyway, skdb hosting would be cool too.. right now it's on a lab server
12:02 < kanzure> joe rayhawk and some other peeps were offering hosting, but i think we need some mirrors and places to let people work
12:02 < kanzure> the web framework is based off of people having .git repositories for their hardware
12:02 < MrClif> yep... 
12:02 < kanzure> and lots of people don't really have shells
12:02 < kanzure> are you a linux sysadmin dood?
12:02 < MrClif> I provide shells to responsable people.
12:02 < kanzure> ok neat
12:03 < Utopiah> kanzure: actually I subscribed to your YT channel after watching, hopefuly more videos coming (fingers crossed, yes that one is just to be annoying)
12:03 < MrClif> but ISC gets real twitchy when the port scans start.
12:03 < kanzure> what is ISC?
12:03 < MrClif> where im hosted isc.org. the home of the F.root nameserver.
12:04 < kanzure> oh shit
12:04 < MrClif> they are a 501(c)3 and under some scrutney and that gets passed along to the sites there.
12:04 < kanzure> wait does ISC host all 13 of the root name servers?
12:05 < MrClif> no I'm sure they are all over the world
12:06 < MrClif> but I have lots of disk space and free BW power etc. 
12:06 < kanzure> props :). i'm really busy today (writing a paper)
12:06 < kanzure> but i want to look into this
12:06 < MrClif> ok We'll talk later then...
12:06 < kanzure> and get some skdb documentation going real soon now
12:06 < MrClif> (RSN) TM ;-)
12:07 < kanzure> yeah :(
12:07 < MrClif> Yeah I have to clear my stack of side projects which will take awhile *sigh*...
12:21 < Utopiah> http://blog.unptnt.com/ down? relocated? http://www.actualhardware.com/ ?
12:37 < kanzure> unptnt.com probably won't happen.. dave seems to be happy with skdb :)
12:37 < kanzure> actualhardware.com is dave's latest, yeah
12:37 < Utopiah> you mentionned OSHBank too, what is that?
12:37 < kanzure> http://oshwbank.org/
12:38 < Utopiah> ah ok, then I guess there was a typo in the PDF< thanks
12:40 < kanzure> oops :(
12:43 < Utopiah> kristianpaul: ping
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12:58 < kanzure> hey randallagordon 
12:58 < randallagordon> Howdy
12:59 < randallagordon> stumbled in via a post to diybio...I feel like I've found home...
12:59 < kanzure> you probably have. what's up?
13:00 < randallagordon> not much, just figured I'd stop by and see how active the channel is, looks to be quite well used
13:00 < kanzure> we're really busy trying to come up with more documentation for skdb
13:00 < kanzure> the response from the conference videos has been more than i expected
13:01 < randallagordon> just watched the SKDB videos from H+, I'm floored
13:01 < kanzure> i wish i was smart enough to do documentation *before* the conference :)
13:01 < randallagordon> hindsight, right? ;)
13:01 < kanzure> right right
13:03 < randallagordon> I've been loosely follow 3d printers and self-replication for several years, but never did much deep digging... So, seeing all these CNC projects at this maturity level has opened my eyes to the fact that I should have been paying closer attention for a while now!
13:04 < kanzure> what were you doing? waiting for the future to happen?
13:05 < randallagordon> Oh, no! ...I'm one of those people with too many hobbies to pick just one to focus on
13:05 < kanzure> sure. me too. http://heybryan.org/
13:05 < randallagordon> Just paying attention to other areas
13:06 < kanzure> diybio maybe?
13:06 < randallagordon> hehe, actually I've been digging through your site since I joined the chan ;)
13:06 < randallagordon> Nah, diybio I came to recently as well.
13:07 < MrClif> Same here I just joined yesterday after running accross a diybio posting on SEM/FIB.
13:08 < kanzure> it will take me a while to learn what each of you are interested in.. but there's a lot of neat work going on
13:08 < randallagordon> The past few years I've focused on a combination of user experience/user interface design, getting a bit more serious with graphics design as well as trying to fill in the gaping hole of economics and business that I thoroughly ignored all my life...all in an attempt to try and make a living off what I love to do--work with the web
13:08 < kanzure> ybit has taken up making a .deb for skdb, and we need more people making STEP models of awesome hardware
13:08 < kanzure> ew, UI :p
13:09 < randallagordon> hehe, UI is important ;) even if it is a struggle
13:10 < MrClif> a good UI will get the projects out into the mainstream. :-)
13:10 < randallagordon> bingo ;)
13:10 < kanzure> oh i shoudl show you the skdb web server thingy i was working on before the talk.. let me turn it on
13:10 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org:8081/ have fun
13:10 < randallagordon> plus, I'm getting old...I'm not as quick to jump straight to "RTFM" as I used to be ;)
13:10 < kanzure> as soon as i put up the icons in the "packages" view, people started to understand
13:10 < kanzure> which i find amazing.. it's just a few icons. but whatever.
13:11 < randallagordon> many people have a hard time visualizing complex ideas, even tiny seeds grow into amazing ideas
13:12 < kanzure> yeah i've been looking for a diagram to explain "downloading hardware from the web"
13:12 < randallagordon> it is just timing out on my end
13:12 < kanzure> oh
13:12 < kanzure> uh
13:13 < randallagordon> I'd say show a video of the RepRap or other CNC equipment in action...seeing it happen speaks volumes
13:13 < randallagordon> I was explaining SKDB to a buddy two days ago for about 10 minutes...simply no clarity was coming around...loaded up the video of the RepRap in action and he immediately put everything together
13:13 < kanzure> randallagordon: try now
13:14 < MrClif> Say in the talk you guys mentioned a $2000 version of the shoptech router, do you have some links to that?
13:14 < kanzure> shoptech? do you mean mechmate? or shopbot?
13:14 < kanzure> http://mechmate.com/
13:14 < kanzure> http://shopbottools.com/
13:15 < MrClif> yes either I think.
13:15 < kanzure> shopbot is $10k+. mechmate can be thrown together for a few thousand.
13:16 < MrClif> Yes that puts it within reach. :-)
13:16 < kanzure> you can buy used stuff dirt cheap
13:16 < kanzure> .. as long as you can haul.
13:16 < MrClif> from ebay for example?
13:17 < kanzure> dunno. i haven't bought anything "big" off of ebay- i guess i'd be careful about shipping rates
13:17 < kanzure> but if you have a truck, and you have craigslist in the area, and local machine shops, you should be good
13:17 < randallagordon> try metal recyclers...they tend to try and sell off "working" parts rather than melt them down
13:18 < MrClif> ok I guess I would be looking for old XY tables.
13:18 < kanzure> hey just a word of warning, many of us in here are totally broke
13:18 < kanzure> so our concept of money and how much stuff should cost is very warped
13:18 < randallagordon> I feel ya there
13:18 < kanzure> so to me mechmate is ridiculously expensive, and shopbot is absurd
13:19 < kanzure> even though shopbot is technically one of the cheapest deals out there
13:19 < MrClif> ;-) got it. I've lived like a starving collage student for most of my life I can relate.
13:19 < kanzure> er wait, it isn't, but it's ranking there
13:19 < kanzure> collage student huh
13:19 < randallagordon> ...far, far less than commercial/industrial solutions
13:19 < kanzure> yes
13:20 < MrClif> by the way I every one teases me about my spelling.
13:20 < kanzure> i literally busted out laughing when i learned that haas stuff costs $100k minimum
13:22 < MrClif> Hey, a bit more about me, a long time ago I worked on this project: http://www.bhutan-notes.com/clif/
13:23 < randallagordon> To play devil's advocate, the flipside is that if you've got a good idea, $100k for a piece of equipment can be made back quickly. The machine then becomes an investment...
13:23 < MrClif> True.
13:23 < kanzure> MrClif: so were you using commercial antennas?
13:23 < randallagordon> But, you've gotta ensure that your idea will generate at least that much in return...which is the difficult part
13:23 < kanzure> some of us aren't interested in money at all
13:23 < MrClif> yes in that project we were.
13:24 < kanzure> i know that's a bad thing to say. i'm cool with balancing the books, but honestly i just want to make stuff
13:24 < randallagordon> oh, that I get
13:24 < kanzure> cool, cool
13:24 < kanzure> so i'm not going to tell you i'm going to get a trillion percent ROI on blah blah blah
13:25 < MrClif> you know the Poynting yaggies are only about $14 each.
13:25 < kanzure> MrClif: what is this document? doesn't look quite like a howto
13:25 < kanzure> a report. hm. you wrote it up?
13:25 < MrClif> yes for the ITU you are required to finish a report to get paid. :-)
13:26 < kanzure> you're my hero: http://www.bhutan-notes.com/clif/images/No_1.jpg
13:26 < MrClif> It took me foever to get it done but I was somewhat motivated...
13:26 < randallagordon> I would have quoted that word for word several years back...I'm just finding that I can build faster and get further by finding methods to use my ideas to produce the cash up front that I need to pay for equipment to finish the job...the business world, rightfully, gets a bad rap, but there's a need to separate the fact that commerce/business can be a tool just as much as a CNC router...business isn't evil, some people pr
13:26 < kanzure> my future setup: http://heybryan.org/shots/inspiration/notstevebutjoe/IMG_0872.JPG
13:26 < randallagordon> business methods which doesn't create dependencies within the market they serve
13:27 < kanzure> randallagordon: yep i think we're on the same wavelength
13:27 < randallagordon> ...but most people certainly haven't been given a reason to trust corps
13:28 < randallagordon> mmm, wall of data
13:29 < MrClif> Well its been fun chatting but I have some code to finish before the day is done... 
13:29 < MrClif> Catch ya later.. :-)
13:29 < randallagordon> Have fun :)
13:29 < MrClif> Ciao!
13:29 < kanzure> fenn: http://www.ladyada.net/library/kits/kitmaking.html
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13:30 < kanzure> who was it that was working on the solarnetone project? shogunx? where is he these days
13:32 < randallagordon> Personally I'm toying with the idea that the "proper" place for an ethical business is one which educates its customers to be able to provide for themselves. So profit begets more profit, rather than draining a market. But making that a reality is the difficult part...certainly not impossible, however.
13:53 < randallagordon> Here's my current project: http://picasaweb.google.com/randallagordon/DIYHydroponics
13:54 < kanzure> neat :)
13:55 < kanzure> i'll look into that more thoroughly later (busy), but someone was in here a few months ago doing hydroponics with a styrofoam cup
13:56 < randallagordon> been interested in hydroponics for a while, then got to reading about some of the Controlled Environment Agriculture work being done at Cornell and U of Arizona and now I'm an addict
13:56 < randallagordon> enjoying a sandwhich with some of that home grown lettuce right now :)
13:57 < randallagordon> ...and I actually got involved so I could assist a buddy who is selling niche LED lighting products...I'm also an LED addict, so it fit in naturally! See, too many hobbies... ;)
14:13 < kanzure> randallagordon: do you do web design? CSS/XHTML crap?
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14:14 < randallagordon> I do
14:16 < randallagordon> feel free to abbreviate my name to rag, ranbot or rb3k...randallagordon is a bit...lettery...
14:17 < kanzure> there's an IRC trick where you can press tab after typing the first few letters to complete the name automagically
14:17 < randallagordon> that works too
14:17 < randallagordon> hoorah for autocompletion
14:17 < randallagordon> I haven't really used IRC since about 2001ish
14:18 < randallagordon> now that I'm getting back into the development side of things, I'm finding myself here more and more often, though, heh
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14:30 < randallagordon> Hello danielfalck...fellow Oregonian?
14:30 < danielfalck> hello
14:30 < danielfalck> yes
14:30 < danielfalck> Beaverton area
14:30 < randallagordon> Right on, I live in Lebanon
14:31 < randallagordon> Sodaville, specifically, if you're familiar with the area...Albany would be the next largest town, if you're not :)
14:32 < danielfalck> Albany will do-I'm not too familiar the area
14:32 < danielfalck> are you a programmer?
14:33 < randallagordon> I am
14:33 < danielfalck> I'm not, but I dabble in python
14:35 < randallagordon> Nice, I'm a bit on the oldschool side, I still prefer good ol' C ;) Although most of my efforts these days are with the web, mostly on the design side, so little programming
14:36 < danielfalck> most of my efforts lately have been just trying to get software to play together nicely on my mac
14:36 < randallagordon> But, my fiance is learning Python at the moment, that's good fun. She's a biology geek, and is at least partially responsible for my showing up here (since she got me interested in bio, eventually I subscribed to the diybio list, and a post there led me here...)
14:36 < danielfalck> so I'm having to learn a little more about make files and other stuff that's just not too fun
14:36 < randallagordon> ahh, yes, but all that knowledge will come in very handy down the line
14:37 < randallagordon> but, yeah, quite boring up front
14:37 < danielfalck> I sure hope so
15:06 < kristianpaul> Utopiah: pong
15:07 < Utopiah> kristianpaul: check the http://oshwbank.org/ shared here earlier
15:07 < kristianpaul> sure
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15:30 < kristianpaul> Utopiah: yes i knew it, is just dont like atmel
15:30 < kristianpaul> other non atmel kits are okay
15:30 < kristianpaul> :)
15:30 < Utopiah> kristianpaul: do you know of similar initiatives?
15:31 < kristianpaul> Utopiah: nope
15:31 < kristianpaul> but this i dont like at all, looks tooo comercial more than collaborative
15:31 < kristianpaul> is my personal opinion
15:32 < kristianpaul> Utopiah: but there is a lot of FLOSS hardware desgins out there
15:32 < kristianpaul> piclist
15:32 < kristianpaul> opencicuits
15:32 < kristianpaul> opencicuits*
15:32 < kristianpaul> r*
15:32 < Utopiah> openbiscuits yes
15:33 < kristianpaul> https://we.riseup.net/opensourcehardware/projects
15:34 < kristianpaul> i remeber you pass me thank link time ago too
15:34 < kristianpaul> and there is no need of have all that just in one place !
15:34 < kristianpaul> :P
15:35 < kristianpaul> and i relly love this  http://en.wikiants.org/ Utopiah 
15:35 < Utopiah> :)
15:37 < Utopiah> kristianpaul: well, maybe not everything in one place but, having a global view can lead to interesting crossover projects/ideas
15:37 < kristianpaul> sure
15:37 < Utopiah> (and also less inefficiency from redundancy)
15:37 < kristianpaul> i hope thats why i'm here .p
15:38  * kristianpaul waching  permaculture 40min documental from http://permaculture.org.au/2009/12/11/greening-the-desert-ii-final/
15:41 < Utopiah> damn, I had permaculture links for you but I forgot... will share them later on
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15:48 < kanzure> what? http://p2pfoundation.net/?title=file:tangilebit.png&diff=0&oldid=prev/
15:48 < kanzure> i wonder why samrose is working on that..
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17:13 < kristianpaul>  /win 11
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17:34 < kanzure> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/12/diy-book-scanner/ eh not automated.
17:35 < kanzure> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/12/13/1747201/The-DIY-Book-Scanner?art_pos=4
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17:40 < kanzure> http://eztv.it/ for television show torrents. so on second thought it's probably worthless
17:41 < Utopiah> (if you are into TH shows http://www.casttv.com/online-tv-guide > *)
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17:46 < Utopiah> hmmm, did the EFF (or sth related) already defend some DIY cases on the basis of intellectual property infringement?
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18:00 < genehacker2> really
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18:17 < kanzure> fenn: which spaces have you checked out? hackerdojo? noisebridge? langton?
18:18 < Utopiah> would be pretty amazing to have every hardware stuff with IPv6 providing API and queue but also geolocation information and cost of running... it will instantly make an entire production network...
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18:23 < genehacker3> geez my internet connection is going wild
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18:25 < kanzure> hey Redeemer 
18:25 < Redeemer>  Mornin
18:26 < genehacker3> kanzure so you can log into computer lab machines and use software on them?
18:26 < genehacker3> here?
18:26 < fenn> kanzure: just noisebridge, i've mostly been sick and playing video games
18:27 < genehacker3> hope you didn't get swineflu
18:27 < genehacker3> dang happened to miss the vaccinations here...
18:27 < fenn> swine flu doesn't start out as a sinus infection
18:27 < Redeemer> Swineflu sucks, but is definitely beatable.
18:27 < fenn> i dont kiss cardboard vampires either, regardless what happens in my dreams
18:28 < genehacker3> do you atleast tell twilight fans the spoilers?
18:28 < fenn> "bella dies"
18:28 < genehacker3> so kanzure can you log into the lab machines over the internet
18:28 < Redeemer> Edward kills dumbledore.
18:29 < genehacker3> it's worse than bella dies
18:29 < kanzure> genehacker3: yes
18:29  * genehacker3 throws down a change the topic to something other than twilight card before we even go there
18:29 < genehacker3> can you use solidworks on them?
18:29 < kanzure> no my lab machines are linux
18:30 < genehacker3> argh
18:30 < kanzure> who's flextronics?
18:30 < genehacker3> I want do some FEM stuff over the break in solidworks, but I don't have solidworks
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18:31 < genehacker3> that stuff takes a really long time...
18:31 < QuantumG> wget 'http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/4857163/SolidWorks_2009_for_64_bit_based_systems.4857163.TPB.torrent'
18:32 < kanzure> danielcc1: i hear you have equipment?
18:32 < QuantumG> or, ya know, whatever is appropriate for you
18:32 < danielcc1> indeed
18:32 < kanzure> let's hear it :)
18:32 < danielcc1> i have a shop with vacuum equ.(10^-7 torr) tools and whatnot
18:32 < genehacker3> quantumg, I can't torrent here it's not safe
18:32 < kanzure> QuantumG: eh doesn't run well under vmware, wine, etc. 
18:32 < danielcc1> welders drills vices
18:33 < QuantumG> kanzure: ya, I work with 64-bit windoze machines, so it'll be going on one of those
18:33 < fenn> danielcc1: where at?
18:34 < kanzure> south carolina
18:34 < QuantumG> and I'm sure I'll be "meh, too hard" and forget about it :)
18:34 < fenn> i wonder if it's cold there too
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18:35 < kanzure> fenn: have you tried using a blanket
18:35 < Redeemer> 10 degrees here in Minnesota.  Warm out.
18:36 < genehacker4> it's rather nice here
18:37 < genehacker4> not even jacket weather
18:37 < fenn> remember how i said video game graphics never improve? well "call of duty: modern warfare" has certainly improved
18:37 < genehacker4> never improved?
18:37 < kanzure> oh noes fenn has found out about video games
18:37 < Redeemer> I like that game, fun times
18:37 < genehacker4> you must be playing those anime game thing
18:38 < QuantumG> as long as you're meta about the whole thing, video game graphics do never change
18:39 < QuantumG> first you're dazzled by the eye candy
18:39 < QuantumG> then you adjust to it
18:39 < QuantumG> and then something else comes out with more eye candy
18:39 < fenn> maybe it's just that still screenshots don't really do it justice
18:39 < kanzure> http://steevols.deviantart.com/gallery/
18:39 < kanzure> stalk: stephen nabholz
18:39 < kanzure> stalk: nigel bosch
18:40 < QuantumG> all the time striving for photorealism and you think "ya know, is photorealism really the right goal?"
18:40 < genehacker4> pah you and your 3d games
18:40 < genehacker4> I much prefer 2d sometimes
18:40 < fenn> QuantumG: um, yeah. wtf
18:41 < genehacker4> whoa those greek busts must be using subsurface scattering rendering
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18:41 < fenn> photorealism is the right goal
18:42  * fenn notes the holodeck was not rendered in anime style
18:42 < QuantumG> the holodeck wasn't exactly good entertainment either
18:43 < QuantumG> for the fictional characters or for the poor viewers who had to watch the fictional characters.
18:43 < QuantumG> shame they never put WoW in the holodeck.. it would be the ultimate in non-fun gaming
18:44 < QuantumG> "you mean I *literally* have to level grind?  wtf?"
18:44 < kanzure> guh? http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2009/07/20/apollo-11-command-module-code-goes-open-source/
18:45 < genehacker4> argh, I can't find the anime game nerd rant that made me lose faith in humanity
18:45 < QuantumG> people have already hooked up treadmills to WoW
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18:46 < QuantumG> .. as if the "OMG, how does running around == gaming?"  conundrum wasn't already bad enough.
18:47 < danielcc1> lol gaming in the real world
18:47 < Redeemer> Keeps them from getting totally overweight.
18:47 < genehacker4> maybe with wearable setups life can be a game
18:47 < danielcc1> oh wait it already isnt?
18:47 < genehacker4> MAKE A 3D PRINTER FOR 1000 POINTS
18:47 < QuantumG> ya know what else does that?   Not playing a game for 80+ hours a week
18:47 < genehacker4> Well I want to get a highscore
18:48 < fenn> QuantumG sure likes to argue
18:49 < Redeemer> Life: The Game sucks, constantly losing.
18:49 < QuantumG> yup, so trying to make your game "more life-like" sounds like a lose to me :)
18:49 < kanzure> i think you should try to make your life as real as possible.. QuantumG i think you have your priorities all out of whack
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18:50 < fenn> i reject your reality
18:50 < kanzure> and substitute what? your mom?
18:50 < kanzure> anyway
18:50 < fenn> what does that even mean? "make your life as real as possible"
18:50 < genehacker2> wait a second, quantumg are you a game addict?
18:51 < kanzure> fenn: groundtruthing can be hard
18:51 < fenn> don't tell me you're an existentialist
18:51 < QuantumG> genehacker2: actually, no, I don't play many games at all.. 
18:51 < kanzure> i don't think so
18:51 < kanzure> enough philosophy
18:52 < kanzure> fenn: we need to figure out what to do with all the wonderful newbies
18:52 < genehacker2> we should set up an educator bot
18:52 < Redeemer> Even with the gaming I do (plenty of it) they still happily remind me that even there I shall fail.
18:52 < kanzure> you're already a bot
18:53 < genehacker2> I already know that
18:53 < fenn> at the very least, they could each pick a hardware project, describe its fundamental physical legal and performance characteristics, throw that in a yaml file, and aggregate all the design files in a directory
18:54 < genehacker2> excellent idea
18:54 < kanzure> i don't think people know how to make folders anymore
18:54 < fenn> i tried to make it simple
18:55 < Redeemer> Heretic!  Simplicity is heresy!
18:55 < fenn> this would actually be sort of an experiment.. to see if volunteers can assimilate information into a form i can deal with more easily than directly assimilating it myself
18:56 < kanzure> IMHO these volunteers aren't maintainers quite yet
18:56 < fenn> yeah that's why i didnt say "have them make an SKDB package"
18:56 < kanzure> need i remind everyone of the .. er. well someone sent in a file
18:57 < kanzure> and it was about something. welding?
18:57 < fenn> genehacker's process files?
18:57 < kanzure> brainfart
18:57 < kanzure> oh they were process.yaml stuff?
18:57 < kanzure> maybe that explains it
18:57 < fenn> i think that's what they were supposed to be.. it was just lists of equations with unlabeled variables though
18:58 < fenn> oh, there's lots more process data to ... process
18:58 < fenn> the scans are still on adl somewhere
18:58 < kanzure> the book?
18:58 < kanzure> i thought you dried it up
18:58 < fenn> yeah 'manufacturing process reference guide'
18:59 < fenn> i only did like 12 out of 150
19:00 < kanzure> the big problem i still see is that nobody is bothering to try heekscad
19:00 < kanzure> and for some reason openscad has been gaining momentum from thingiverse and makerbot
19:01 < kanzure> but you can't get data out of openscad easily
19:01 < kanzure> (or at all at the moment)
19:02 < fenn> yeah it is sort of like pov-ray
19:02 < fenn> that's not necessarily a bad thing
19:02 < fenn> i do hope they make some python bindings
19:02 < kanzure> my mesh to boundary representation code doesn't work yet
19:02 < fenn> yet? hah
19:02 < fenn> that's a "Hard Problem"
19:03 < kanzure> yes
19:03 < kanzure> actually it seems harder to code than it is to solve. i see lots of half solutions in the literature, but not much working demo stuff. (probably because everyone goes commercial)
19:04 < fenn> i bet it will be a human-assisted process for a long time to come, like OCR
19:04 < kanzure> maybe the mesh fetism won't last
19:04 < kanzure> *fetishism
19:04 < fenn> it's not "fetishism" it's just way easier to write code to deal with meshes
19:05 < kanzure> no i think the issue is that more tools export meshes
19:05 < fenn> ^^ see what i said
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19:05 < kanzure> the users don't write the code
19:05 < fenn> someone has to write the code
19:05 < genehacker> what about inputing the data?
19:05 < fenn> please restate the question in the form of an answer
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19:07 < kanzure> isn't it kind of a cheat that stl-machines don't care whether or not the model is closed volume?
19:07 < kanzure> er nevermind
19:07 < kanzure> closed volume is pretty useless in IGES, you can import meshes but it's useless
19:09 < fenn> stl has to be a closed volume
19:10 < fenn> i dont know what you're talking about i guess
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19:10 < kanzure> huh? i've made lots of stl models where there were some triangles hanging off
19:11 < fenn> i'm sure it's possible to screw up just about any format
19:18 < kanzure> btw your shoes arrived
19:34 < fenn> pants
19:35 < fenn> did i get a little red box from sparkfun?
19:36 < randallagordon> ...I have a sudden urge to quote..."These, are not your pants."
19:37 < fenn> was that a seinfeld reference?
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19:40 < kanzure> fenn: probably. i haven't opened either of the packages. but i'm geussing the bigger one is shoes.
19:40 < kanzure> wait, didn't you already get them
19:40 < kanzure> oh. pants.
19:40 < kanzure> ok now i get it. carry on
19:43 < kanzure> fenn will probably be sad that this page even has to exist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_file_database
19:45 < kanzure> haha a mysql csv storage engine
19:45 < kanzure> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/csv-storage-engine.html
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19:58 < kanzure> aha! killed a 5-day bug.
19:58 < kanzure> one of those one liners though :(
19:59 < drazak> are you still running windows?
19:59 < kanzure> no
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20:18 < kanzure> very weird
20:18 < kanzure> http://www.mai-dep704.ru/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1146933770/7
20:18 < kanzure> i wonder why someone bothered to add in all that text
20:19 < kanzure> holy shit
20:19 < kanzure> http://www.google.com/search?q=lookme875&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a
20:19 < kanzure> 122,000 results for this spam bot.
20:21 < fenn> i'm sorry but spam is just boring, kanzure
20:22 < kanzure> so is money..
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21:13 < flamt_> i apologize
21:13 < flamt_> for my outburst
21:13 < flamt_> before
21:14 < flamt_> ._.
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21:34 < fenn> she stole your headphones  http://www.flickr.com/photos/glasser/2552302771/sizes/l/
21:51 < drazak> ok
21:51 < drazak> who is that chick?
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21:51 < drazak> I want her so bad now
21:52 < fenn> someone at langton labs ("laurel")
21:54 < drazak> I'd tap that
21:55 < fenn> gah http://www.flickr.com/photos/415monkey/4140441550/
21:56 < fenn> no drazak you aren't supposed to know who that is
21:57 < drazak> that chick's seriously not as hot
21:58 < QuantumG> she's only like 2 beers difference though
21:59 < fenn> rupa's hotter imho http://www.flickr.com/photos/mkpix/1377191977/
22:00 < QuantumG> she would be if she put some effort in
22:00 < fenn> effort is wasted
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22:01 < kanzure> fenn: did you visit them?
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22:02 < QuantumG> what kind of effect would a year of 100g acceleration have on solid state hardware?
22:02 < kanzure> this external hdd mum gave me is just clicking.. doesn't seem to want to tell me what's wrong with itself
22:04 < QuantumG> yeah, I saw one similar
22:04 < QuantumG> WD no doubt
22:04 < kanzure> lacie
22:04 < QuantumG> ok then
22:05 < QuantumG> generally I plug it in under the linux.. if there's errors in the syslog that prevent it from being detected in lsusb then I declare it dead, call the manufacturer
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22:06 < QuantumG> bunch of times I've had it work just fine though.. bit of ntfsfix makes it all good again.
22:06 < kanzure> i should just take out the hdd
22:06 < QuantumG> yeah, that's the second step if the usb controller fails
22:07 < kanzure> it's a 500GB tombstone.. no point in physically carrying that /anywhere/
22:07 < QuantumG> but if linux is seeing the usb controller but not the drive, no point
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22:08 < fenn> well you can use the usb controller for something else
22:08 < QuantumG> yeah, I meant from a "can you get my data back please?"  perspective
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22:19 < kanzure> note to mums: don't gift me with my old hard drives.
22:20 < fenn> so i've actually been using OSX for the last week or so.. it really isn't all that great
22:20 < kanzure> what does it do
22:21 < fenn> well it doesn't really do anything special
22:21 < fenn> everything's just slightly different enough to piss off non-mac people, that's all
22:21 < fenn> like no alt-f4 for example
22:22 < fenn> and alt-tab switches between applications and not windows, so you have to fuck around with the menu bar if you want to switch windows in an app
22:22 < fenn> if i have two terminals open for example
22:22 < fenn> and copying in X11 is broken
22:22 < kanzure> who's mac are you using?
22:23 < fenn> anyway i could whine all day, the point is that it's nothing magic..
22:23 < fenn> my brother gave me his old busted laptop
22:24 < fenn> trying to install git right now
22:24 < kanzure> take notes i guess
22:24 < fenn> it's a powerpc and i'm not sure how good the debian support is, or i probably would have wiped the thing and put ubuntu on it by now
22:24 < fenn> one or the other
22:25 < kanzure> livecd check?
22:25 < kanzure> never too bad to have an extra spare
22:27 < fenn> a regular livecd wouldnt work anyway
22:27 < fenn> also i think the drive is broken
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22:31 < fenn> the new kde control panel looks exactly like the mac control panel.. i wonder who copied who
22:32 < kanzure> someone at hplus summit was trying to convince me that .NET wasn't evil because mono is open source
22:34 < fenn> yeah that was pretty lame
22:37 < genehacker4> obey your microsoft overlords
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22:50 < fenn> i do like that "actually transparent console background" though
22:50 < fenn> i.e. not totally lame like konsole
22:50 < kanzure> is ext4 out yet or worth using?
22:51 < fenn> i would never use a filesystem that hasn't been common for ages
22:51 < kanzure> so.. fat16?
22:51 < fenn> ext3
22:51 < fenn> or ext2 if it's a flash device
22:51 < kanzure> sadly it is not
22:52 < fenn> my experience with reiserfs wasn't great
22:52 < kanzure> came and murdered your data, huh
22:52 < fenn> har har
22:52 < fenn> i still dont believe he did it
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