--- Day changed Thu Dec 31 2009
00:04 < randallagordon> the chan has been eerily quiet today
00:09 < fenn> meep
00:11 < randallagordon> moop
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00:14 < kanzure> hello fenn 
00:30 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-48-104.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
00:31 < genehacker> bladerunner is awesome
00:32 < genehacker> now if we could only make 2019 like bladerunner...
00:33 < genehacker> err... like it as in ubiquitous biological equipment
00:35 < QuantumG> sufficiently vague that any old technology can fill the void described?
00:37 -!- thesnark [n=michael@ppp-69-221-4-192.dsl.toldoh.ameritech.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:40 < genehacker> ???
00:47 < QuantumG> bladerunner never described exactly what the replicants were
00:56 < genehacker> eyes cooled in liquid nitrogen?
00:58 < genehacker> hmmm....
00:59 < genehacker> oh well it's still an awesome movie
01:04 < kanzure> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lTKCDLFront hm i wonder how this happened
01:07  * Trooem KFC - "Finger licken' good."
01:10 < randallagordon> Anyone who is interested in realtime multimedia should watch this OnLive demo presentation: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/onlive-shows-off-ui-and-iphone-use-in-marathon-tech-demo-video/
01:11 < randallagordon> These guys just reinvented media from the ground up
01:19 < kanzure> bwahaha it's building
01:19 < genehacker> cloud gaming?
01:19 < kanzure> no, pythonocc-0.3.deb
01:19 < genehacker> but you can't mod cloud games...
01:20 < genehacker> I'm talking to randall
01:20 < randallagordon> cloud EVERYTHING
01:20 < randallagordon> This tech goes far, far beyond games
01:20 < randallagordon> Think sports
01:20 < randallagordon> Shift seemlessly between multiple camera angles
01:20 < genehacker> boring
01:21 < genehacker> I'm not a big fan of the cloud
01:21 < randallagordon> okay, think live hackerspace event streaming :P
01:21 < randallagordon> hehe, you're going to have the future then ;)
01:22 < genehacker> I don't like the cloud future
01:22 < kanzure> clouds come and go
01:22 < genehacker> it's centralized
01:22 < kanzure> only the sky remains
01:23 < genehacker> I hope it gets sunny again
01:23 < randallagordon> only as centralized as you make it
01:23 < randallagordon> run your own cloud
01:23 < randallagordon> the sky has millions of them
01:23 < randallagordon> cloud does *not* mean "they have all my info" if you're running open source cloud apps off your own server
01:23 < kanzure> sorry but if i'm going to be sys adming a million servers, i;'m going to do it my way
01:23 < kanzure> screw your clouds
01:24 < kanzure> *admining
01:24 < kanzure> *i'm
01:24 < genehacker> so basically your locking the content
01:24 < randallagordon> in many ways, *nix users are the ultimate cloud use case already
01:24 < genehacker> I can't modify said content
01:24 < kanzure> randallagordon: stop drinking the kool aid
01:24 < kanzure> and just say what you mean
01:24 < randallagordon> we've been logging in and using machines remotely from the beginning
01:24 < genehacker> I can't get 3d models from the game and 3d print them off
01:24 < kanzure> so what
01:24  * kanzure goes back to work
01:24 < genehacker> it's very inflexible, very rigid
01:24 < randallagordon> that's the cloud, my friend
01:24 < kanzure> not according to everyone else
01:25 < randallagordon> then what is it according to everyone else?
01:25 < kanzure> hell if i can understand cloudhype
01:25 < randallagordon> generally it gets summarized as "access to any information, anywhere"
01:25 < kanzure> but it's not ssh
01:26 < randallagordon> SSH *IS* a cloud tech
01:26 < randallagordon> you just haven't ever been told that it is :P
01:26 < randallagordon> You're accessing a machine remotely, "out there", even if it is the next box over on the desk ;)
01:26 < genehacker> wait a second does this stuff run over the wireless networks?
01:26 < kanzure> ugh
01:26 < kanzure> genehacker: stfu
01:26 < genehacker> or does it need to plug into the wall?
01:26 < randallagordon> OnLive?
01:26 < genehacker> yeah whatever it is?
01:26 < kanzure> randallagordon: cloud marketing hype is usually about server virtualization on some one else's network
01:27 < randallagordon> They've got a WiFi client, but cellular is out for now, latency is too high
01:27 < genehacker> what about clear?
01:27 < randallagordon> colocation has useful applications
01:27 < randallagordon> I'll let you know ;)
01:27 < genehacker> so they said the servers need to be within 1000 miles of the player to get decent reaction time
01:27 < randallagordon> By the time I get an OnLive beta invite (submitted for one a couple months back) I'll already have Clear hardware to test
01:28 < randallagordon> The entire US is covered
01:28 < randallagordon> cloud HYPE, is BS, I'll side with you there
01:28 < randallagordon> But the base ideas have been around, and in use by geeks since ARPAnet
01:28 < randallagordon> Getting it out to the laypeople is why you're seeing hype now
01:29 < kanzure> yawn
01:29 < kanzure> are you doing anything right now?
01:29 < randallagordon> The *internet* itself is the cloud
01:29 < genehacker> this means if you're within 1000 miles of a UAV you should be able to control it without 'lag'
01:29 < kanzure> can you please go away? you're clogging up my tubes
01:29 < genehacker> me?
01:29 < kanzure> no
01:29 < genehacker> affirmative
01:30 < randallagordon> Hoorah for learned debate
01:30 < kanzure> wtf are you debating?
01:30 < kanzure> whether or not i believe in hype?
01:30 < kanzure> who cares?
01:30 < randallagordon> No, I don't believe in the hype either
01:30 < genehacker> I'm worried if the laypeople adopt it
01:30 < randallagordon> I'm simply explaining that the hype doesn't matter, it isn't the point
01:30 < kanzure> yes it is
01:30 < genehacker> it's just a future I don't want to see
01:31 < kanzure> these technologies already exist
01:31 < randallagordon> ...which is precisely my point
01:31 < kanzure> so the hype is just extra overhead
01:31 < randallagordon> the cloud is here, already
01:31 < kanzure> so go away and stop talking
01:31  * randallagordon thinks kanzure was right about being an ass
01:31  * kanzure nods
01:31 < kanzure> unless you have a legitimate reason to convert us to cloudism?
01:32 < randallagordon> I don't have to convert, you already use the tech daily
01:32 < kanzure> i still don't know why we're talking then
01:32 < genehacker> scorch the sky to thwart the machines?
01:32 < kanzure> i'm honestly confused
01:32 < randallagordon> If you're focusing on the hype, you're focusing on the wrong thing
01:32 < genehacker> I don't care
01:32 < kanzure> randallagordon: the solution is to stop talking about clouds, tehn
01:32 < kanzure> *then
01:33 < randallagordon> okay, so I'll type the longer term constantly, network computing
01:33 < randallagordon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_computing
01:45  * Trooem thinks everyone in this channel's souls are recycled aliens from a different planet.
01:46 < kanzure> taking too long to compile
01:46 < kanzure> wah
01:46  * randallagordon could get behind that
01:46 < genehacker> play a game
01:46 < genehacker> derive an equation
01:47 < genehacker> I can give you one to solve that should keep you occupied for quite a while
01:47 < genehacker> if you solve it by hand
01:48 < kanzure> nah i think i'll sleep
01:48 < kanzure> randallagordon: sorry about your clouds :(
01:48 < randallagordon> I'm not sorry :P
01:48 < randallagordon> I like my clouds
01:48 < randallagordon> I like being able to use my apps from any web capable device
01:49 < randallagordon> I do share the sentiment that I don't enjoy using *other vendor's* apps
01:49 < genehacker> I like having lot's of processing power on my person
01:49 < randallagordon> I'd love to see OSI versions of the current host of popular apps
01:49 < randallagordon> genehacker, as do I, but that isn't likely to be fiesable for quite some time
01:50 < genehacker> I carry a laptop
01:50 < QuantumG> I haven't seen a single person say OnLive can work :)
01:50 < QuantumG> I *love* to troll people about this.
01:50 < randallagordon> 5 years or so, we'll really see some high horsepower stuff, combined with awesome battery advances and wireless power
01:50 < randallagordon> lol, I was entirely skeptical until I started reading up on how they pulled it off
01:51 < randallagordon> it is freakin' ingenious
01:51 < genehacker> maybe not if people switch over to the cloud
01:51 < genehacker> then the need for such things will be decreased
01:51 < genehacker> maybe
01:52  * Trooem thinks ego should be abandoned for effective communication and progress.
01:52  * randallagordon agrees
01:52 < QuantumG> press X on the controller -> send a packet -> travel over the wire -> receive the packet -> update the game -> render the frame -> packet it up -> send it back -> travel over the wire -> receive the packet -> decompress it -> display it... all in 80 ms
01:52 < randallagordon> They're using one-off hardware designs for the video compression
01:53 < randallagordon> FPGAs are the future, baby
01:53 < randallagordon> Software defined hardware
01:53 < QuantumG> why 80ms?  Maybe you don't need that small a roundtrip.. but they *claim* 80ms roundtrip
01:53 < randallagordon> They've got a 150ms WiFi iPhone client
01:53 < randallagordon> It just improves the experience
01:54  * Trooem .................................................................................................................
01:54 < Trooem> randalla, when someone says sorry, you say sorry too~
01:54 < randallagordon> The part I love is the video compression tech
01:55 < randallagordon> Trooem, eh?
01:56  * Trooem is really a demigod.
01:56 < QuantumG> I ping my ISP and get:  164ms 35ms 566ms 63ms 34ms 219ms 34ms 39ms 439ms 33ms 34ms 186ms
01:57 < randallagordon> That's...jumpy
01:57 < QuantumG> indeed.  So I dare say that your experience with OnLive will depend on how incredibly crap your connection is, like mine :)
01:57  * Trooem has no clue what he's saying. Live happy and fulfilled everyone~!!!!!!!
01:57 < randallagordon> Very much so
01:57 < randallagordon> Watch that video I linked to
01:58 < randallagordon> They explain the tech quite in depth
01:58 < Trooem> i'm going to eat a piece of pizza :))))))))))))))))))))))))))
01:58 < QuantumG> oh I am.. and it looks awesome
01:58 < randallagordon> I'm seriously floored thinking about all the different applications this has, far beyond games
01:58 < randallagordon> media in general
01:58 < randallagordon> They have a gigapixel computing platform in their hands
01:59 < randallagordon> heh, I just pinged my host, Oregon to Toronto, 117, 119, 110, 109, 132, 110, 128, 115, 113, 126
02:00 < randallagordon> About...I think 11 mins in, they talk about their network tech
02:00 < randallagordon> intelligent routing :)
02:00 < randallagordon> The only thing I *don't* like, is the idea of how much stuff I'm sure they now hold patents on...pray they play nice
02:01 < QuantumG> It's really gunna require unheard of vertical integration .. which explains why they're taking so long to ship.
02:01 < randallagordon> Kind of
02:01 < randallagordon> The video compression is the key...and that gets handled in spades by their hardware
02:02 < QuantumG> the decompression must be insanely cheap
02:02 < randallagordon> They take VLSI to the max
02:03 < QuantumG> no.. you're not getting me.. their decompression requires no special hardware
02:03 < randallagordon> It sounds like it scales well to the native resolution of most devices already on the market
02:03 < randallagordon> No, that I get
02:04 < randallagordon> The magic happens in their hardware, essentially using psychovisual advances tossed into hardware to throw out everything your brain ignores in a video sequence anyways
02:04 < randallagordon> The pushing two different quality video streams to handle latency
02:05 < randallagordon> A lower quality stream for high motion, low detail
02:05 < randallagordon> A higher quality, low framerate stream for low motion, high detail
02:06 < randallagordon> s/The/Then/
02:07 < QuantumG> ya know what will be the ultimate irony?
02:07 < QuantumG> if they solve all the technical issues, manage to ship this thing, and then completely fail on the business model.
02:08 < randallagordon> Yep
02:08 < randallagordon> But, it looks like they've got that down too
02:08 < randallagordon> They're making this a social thing...Xbox Live to the next level
02:09 < randallagordon> It is ready for multiplayer out of the box, even local splitscreen
02:09 < randallagordon> And the spectating...that's amazing
02:09 < QuantumG> if they make it all-you-can-eat they'll do well
02:09 < randallagordon> Eventually I'd imagine they will—or someone else *will* beat them to it
02:10 < QuantumG> if they try to do a subscription+pay-for-access-to-each-game they'll fail
02:10 < randallagordon> But for the time being, they're being smart from the business perspective, they've simply made it more lucrative for the incumbent game developers to distribute their software
02:10 < randallagordon> Doubtful
02:10 < randallagordon> Direct downloads are working amazingly well for MS and Sony
02:10 < randallagordon> Discs are dead
02:11 < randallagordon> But, near the end of the video they talk about a very blended approach
02:11 < randallagordon> Developers have the control, it sounds like
02:11 < randallagordon> But, a base subscription is inevitable
02:11 < randallagordon> They've gotta pay for your license "seat" and, of course, the hardware leases
02:13 < QuantumG> I wonder when they will ship.... cause it'll take at least 12 months for them you get out of the US
02:13 < randallagordon> The demo talks about freely available games, ad supported and virtual goods models, as well as buying a virtual license...which I'd totally be down for, given that I can *also* download the binary to my own box
02:13 < QuantumG> assuming success
02:14 < randallagordon> They've already got the US covered, it appears...since they're leasing the hardware, they can move *very* fast to expand out to other markets
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02:14 < QuantumG> they'll have to get the ISPs up to snuff first dude
02:14 < randallagordon> I'd say the hardest part would be getting the local telecoms to play nice
02:14 < QuantumG> as I just said, my connection is typical
02:15 < randallagordon> Where are you?
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02:15 < QuantumG> actually, my connection is really good for this area :)
02:15 < randallagordon> I get pissy if my latency is above 35ms :P
02:15 < QuantumG> cable here is horrid
02:15 < randallagordon> (for gaming)
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02:15 < QuantumG> and I'm on dsl
02:15 < QuantumG> Australia
02:15 < randallagordon> Ahhh
02:16 < randallagordon> Unfortunately Oz is notorious...you're screwed ;)
02:16 < randallagordon> But throughout many other nations, this service is readymade
02:16 < QuantumG> I imagine it could be done here..
02:17 < randallagordon> Oh, certainly
02:17 < QuantumG> "Instant demos, try before you buy."
02:17 < QuantumG> right.. so they're screwed
02:17 < randallagordon> I don't think they're going to be the problem, the incumbent developers will be
02:17 < QuantumG> it's subscription+pay-for-every-game-separately
02:18 < randallagordon> No, keep listening
02:18 < randallagordon> They go on to talk about much more
02:18 < randallagordon> Other models
02:18 < QuantumG> I'm sure there are other models
02:18 < QuantumG> but that model will be what they are pushing for A+ titles
02:18 < randallagordon> They put the payment model in the hands of the devs
02:18 < randallagordon> Of course...they've gotta make sure the devs are happy, or they have nothing, period
02:19 < QuantumG> yep
02:19 < randallagordon> But this lets them put out a "next gen" console that puts everyone else to shame for, say $250 that could handle 1080p60
02:19 < randallagordon> Probably even less
02:20 < QuantumG> asian dude trying to say "lossless"
02:20 < QuantumG> saying it like "loose-less" .. facepalm
02:20 < randallagordon> Since they're already using VLSI designs, I'm sure they'll be quick to apply it to their consoles as well
02:21 < randallagordon> hehe, indeed
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02:23 < randallagordon> They're also a readymade IPTV outlet
02:23 < randallagordon> I can almost garuntee a Netflix partnership...the ability to flip between streams on the fly...
02:23 < QuantumG> yeah, on-demand anything
02:25 < randallagordon> I want to use it to live broadcast rally :D
02:26 < randallagordon> Using 360 degree cameras, HMDs and head-tracking you could let the viewer look around as though they're standing on the spot
02:29 < QuantumG> have you seen those 360 degree video cameras?
02:29 < randallagordon> Which one? ;)
02:29 < randallagordon> I've looked at how to make one myself
02:29 < QuantumG> there was some awesome demos on
02:30 < randallagordon> using an array
02:31 < randallagordon> Check out the video I embedded in this post: http://randallagordon.com/blog/2009/02/28/reality-the-future-of-live-content-delivery-and-emergency-response/
02:31 < QuantumG> http://karagos.com/post/114229575/yellow-bird
02:31 < QuantumG> check that out
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02:31 < randallagordon> Awesome
02:31 < randallagordon> So someone is already on it :)
02:32 < QuantumG> one camera, intricate lenses
02:32 < randallagordon> Just need the HMDs/head tracking to go with it
02:32 < randallagordon> Don't need specialty optics, just awesome software ;)
02:32 < randallagordon> As per the video I embedded in that post
02:33 < QuantumG> well, the point of the optics is to get 6 sides of the cube at the one camera
02:33 < randallagordon> Indeed
02:33 < randallagordon> But, really, you don't need it
02:33 < QuantumG> hmm.. I wonder how open the dev will be?  :)
02:33 < randallagordon> software can do the corrections with hardware we've got now, to drop the cost
02:34 < QuantumG> they're like "we'll support indie developers"
02:34 < randallagordon> Just build one using Eleph
02:34 < QuantumG> how indie is indie? :)
02:34 < randallagordon> I think I spelled that wrong
02:35 < randallagordon> wow, yeah, big time, Elphel
02:35 < QuantumG> Elphel?
02:36 < randallagordon> Open source network camera
02:36 < randallagordon> As I recall you can build one for ~$500
02:36 < randallagordon> Kits start around $800
02:37 < QuantumG> fun
02:37 < randallagordon> Uses an FPGA, too, so I'd imagine you could do good amount of DSP processing before it hits the network
02:38 < QuantumG> I presume that an optics engineer could build an optics box that you could shove a crappy webcam into and get that kind of 6-faces-of-the-cube-to-one-frame result
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02:38 < randallagordon> I'd presume so, too, but it seems like insane overkill
02:38 < randallagordon> I'd imagine just having more cameras would be cheaper than the optics ;)
02:38 < QuantumG> huh?
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02:38 < QuantumG> ya kidding right?
02:39 < randallagordon> Well, I suppose with a webcam you don't need anything fancy
02:39 < randallagordon> You're not going to get quality to speak of to begin with, heh
02:39 < randallagordon> ...although some newer models are starting to get impressive
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02:40 < QuantumG> also, taking a single camera feed and processing it will always be easier than taking 6 camera feeds.
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02:40 < randallagordon> I'm a photographer who's nuts about quality glass, so I tend to take optics to another level ;)
02:40 < randallagordon> From that standpoint, yes
02:40 < randallagordon> But are you going to have enough quality leftover to be worthwhile?
02:41 < randallagordon> The Elphel is built to swap out sensors...right now I think they offer a 3MP and 5MP option
02:41 < QuantumG> it is funny though.. whenever you see some sci-fi show with a flying camera ball it's modelled after the concept of a floating eyeball that is only looking in one direction at a time.
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02:42 < randallagordon> With a sensor like that, you could probably do quite well with such an optics setup...but with the 640x480 that is common on all but the most high end webcams, you're not left with much
02:42 < randallagordon> hehe, indeed
02:43 < QuantumG> are there any head tracking systems for HMDs that do more than pitch/roll/yaw?
02:43 < QuantumG> .. namely pan
02:43 < randallagordon> But, most sci-fi producers aren't geeky enough to know what's possible quite yet...
02:43 < randallagordon> I've never looked at what's available, actually...always just been ready to make something custom, heh
02:43 < QuantumG> I have a HMD.. it doesn't do pan
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02:46 < QuantumG> and you miss it when you're playing an fps
02:46 < randallagordon> what HMD do you have?
02:47 < randallagordon> namely that sounds like a software thing, I'd like to look at the specs
02:47 < randallagordon> The game would need to support proper headtracking
02:47 < QuantumG> I know exactly what gets sent down the wire
02:48 < QuantumG> pitch/roll/yaw
02:48 < QuantumG> http://www.vuzix.com/iwear/products_vr920.html
02:49 < randallagordon> In theory that should cover all movement from a fixed point?
02:49 < QuantumG> yeah.. raw acceleration vectors would have been better
02:49 < randallagordon> "To experience 3D graphics and/or head-tracking, the software must either contain support for these features or it must be provided through an application such as the Vuzix iWear Monitor that comes with the VR920 virtual reality display system."
02:49 < QuantumG> do the pitch/roll/raw calculations in software, and you can do positional calculations too
02:50 < randallagordon> Indeed, 'tis the game's "fault"
02:50 < QuantumG> no its not
02:50 < QuantumG> listen
02:50 < QuantumG> I actually added support for the 920's head tracking to all the games I used it in
02:50 < randallagordon> for proper head tracking you need a magnetometer, not just an accelerometer...
02:51 < QuantumG> and it does.. the problem is, it does all the translation in hardware.. and only delivers pitch/roll/yaw down the wire
02:51 < QuantumG> head movement is more than just pitch/roll/yaw
02:52 < randallagordon> Ahhh, I got what you're meaning now
02:52 < randallagordon> It is pitch/roll/yaw+orentation
02:52 < randallagordon> orientation, even
02:52 < QuantumG> more like origin :)
02:53 < randallagordon> indeed :)
02:54 < QuantumG> having origin tracking would make the experience much more immersive cause you could dodge rockets flying at your head
02:54 < randallagordon> bingo
02:54 < QuantumG> then there's eye tracking
02:54 < randallagordon> I've been wanting to toy with head tracking for quite some time
02:55 < QuantumG> but that's just being picky :)
02:55 < randallagordon> hehe, yeah, that can be overcome with sufficiently large displays
02:55 < QuantumG> oh yeah, that's another thing I've always wondered about
02:56 < randallagordon> oooh, but that's an interesting thing I hadn't thought to incorporate with AR systems that use (yet to be invented) contact lens displays
02:56 < randallagordon> eyetracking becomes highly important there
02:56 < QuantumG> if you had a big screen display on a pan (and a little tilt) mechanism that was doing head tracking, would it provide a more interesting experience
02:57 < QuantumG> dodge your head right and the display dodges with you, and the viewport updates to your new position.
02:58 < randallagordon> hrmmm...to my thinking, I'd stick with and HMD using high-res LCDs paired with optics to correct for edge distortion
02:58 < QuantumG> the display moves so that the middle of your head is always in the middle of the display
02:59 < randallagordon> but that's a great idea for retrofits
02:59 < QuantumG> yeah, if you have infinite budget
02:59 < randallagordon> I'd imagine most of it could be accounted for using flexible OLED screens
02:59 < randallagordon> "super widescreen", if you will
03:00 < randallagordon> of course, that opens up a whole other aspect of having the hardware to push the pixels
03:00 < QuantumG> hehe, of course now I'm imagining 3 robots with a really big LCD display help up to head height chasing you around a big room
03:00 < randallagordon> lol nice
03:00 < QuantumG> those "borderless" displays they're trying to flog now
03:01 < randallagordon> hehe, current commercial OLED offerings are nothing to raise an eyebrow at...
03:01 < QuantumG> http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2009/12/130_58058.html
03:02 < QuantumG> http://www.robotshop.ca/Images/rblyn63_robot_arm.jpg
03:02 < randallagordon> Nice...borderless is sexy, then you can build awesome arrays
03:02 < randallagordon> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/you-can-check-o/
03:03 < QuantumG> that robot needs to be capable of omnidirectional motion
03:03 < randallagordon> Heh, the "artists rendition" in that Wired article is a bit...over the top
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03:04 < QuantumG> and it would have to move fast!
03:04 < QuantumG> probably easier to just have 8 of them
03:04 < QuantumG> surrounding you
03:05 < QuantumG> but now I'm just being silly :)
03:07 < randallagordon> hehe, hey, there's no reason high tech can't be silly ;)
03:07 < QuantumG> I think "japanese" is the technical term
03:08 < randallagordon> might not be feasible, but at least it is fun and rewarding, right? kludges rock ;)
03:08 < randallagordon> Just make sure they don't fall into the uncanny valley and we're all good
03:08 < QuantumG> just make the characters blue and we'll be fine
03:08 < randallagordon> Actually, I think that migh add to the fun...make them vaguely humanoid ;)
03:13 < QuantumG> fun, took me 3 hours to verify that a "fix" I checked in didn't actually fix the problem.
03:13 < QuantumG> and 30 seconds more to figure out that I'm an idiot.
03:13 < randallagordon> oh?
03:13 < QuantumG> software development is so much fun
03:14 < randallagordon> can be, can be
03:17 < QuantumG> http://www.mychessblog.com/one-simple-mental-exercise-to-improve-your-mind-power/
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06:47 < Utopiah> (HAR 2009: Electrical enginering with free/libre open source software 1/6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTd3D839ops gEDA, PCB, Emdebian, positive vs negative vs proprietary vs floss standoff)
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11:14 < kanzure> does anyone melt down the PLA from reprapped plastic models?
11:34 < kanzure> er after it is reprapped
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12:07 < kristianpaul> kanzure: yes
12:07 < kristianpaul> why?
12:08 < kristianpaul> btw do yo know about and free/open source satellite design kid off CubeSat kanzure ?
12:14 < ybit> kristianpaul: i don't, link?
12:15 < kristianpaul> i wish
12:15 < kristianpaul> i just was reading CubeSat
12:15 < ybit> you don't have a link?
12:15 < ybit> is this not it? http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:Smrvt4t-PgQJ:opensat.cc/blog/%3Fpage_id%3D36+http://opensat.cc/blog/%3Fpage_id%3D36&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
12:17 < kristianpaul> ybit: great :)
12:17  * kristianpaul reading
12:19  * ybit finally sits down to finish the .deb
12:19 < kristianpaul> ybit: .deb of kanzure project?
12:56 < ybit> kristianpaul: the kanzure project? :P
12:56 < ybit> yes, i'm packaging kanzure into a .deb
12:58 < ybit> oh great, it was approved, kristianpaul: apt-get install kanzure
13:05 < kanzure> ouch!
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13:05 < kanzure> stop installing me :(
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13:09 < Kuro_> I've forgotten, have you seen this before? http://www.physorg.com/news180620740.html
13:10 < ybit> kanzure: i noticed that you were working on the .deb earlier, did you ever get around to editing the watch file?
13:10 < ybit> i don't want to mess with it
13:26 < kanzure> http://ignite.oreilly.com/austin/
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13:32 < kanzure> john griessen, jerry rutherford, who else wanted to meet up with me before going to les' shop?
13:35 < kanzure> oh, and jason
13:36 < kanzure> jason wants to help put together "Gnusha's 3D Print Shop"
13:45 < kristianpaul> excuses i mean skdb ybit :)
13:47 < kristianpaul> kanzure: Gnusha's 3D Print Shop ? link? :D
13:48 < kanzure> not yet :)
13:48 < kristianpaul> :)
13:51 < kristianpaul> kanzure: http://www.physorg.com/news181376289.html ? true?
13:53 < kristianpaul> Kuro_: ^
13:53 < kristianpaul> sorry kanzure 
13:57 < Kuro_> I've heard about it from other sources, but I haven't seen confirmation yet.
14:02 < kanzure> cool jason can introduce me to richard garriott
14:02  * kanzure uploads the .deb
14:09 < Kuro_> Well, according to this article from almost two years ago, http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russia_warns_of_asteroid_threat_999.html , the Russians were wary about that asteroid, so it could be true.
14:20  * kristianpaul click
14:21 < kristianpaul> ybit: great idea about the opensat, how do u get the link or heard about it?
14:33 < kanzure> my website will be down for a few minutes here
14:34 < kanzure> slow internet connection
14:37 < kristianpaul> thesnark: http://www.cubesatkit.com/
14:37 < kristianpaul> no here
14:38  * kristianpaul dawn typo tday
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14:57 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/pythonocc-0.3.deb
14:57 < kanzure> 108 MB
15:08 < kristianpaul> should i try ? ...
15:10 < klord> what it is?
15:10 < kanzure> pythonOCC is http://pythonocc.org/
15:10 < kanzure> opencascade api accessible in python
15:10 < kanzure> skdb requires it
15:11 < kristianpaul> yup
15:11  * kristianpaul remenber that nevers find what .py is skdb
15:11 < klord> ah, cool.
15:11 < kanzure> what?
15:11 < kanzure> kristianpaul: you never make any sense to me :(
15:12 < kristianpaul> hehe
15:12 < kristianpaul> kanzure: i need lean english first :p
15:12 < kristianpaul> learn*
15:13 < kanzure> what language do you speak?
15:13 < kanzure> maybe you should just try to say it in your native tongue
15:13 < kristianpaul> spanish 
15:13 < kanzure> yes some of us should be able to help you
15:14 < kristianpaul> i just was trying to say that i never found the main .py file ok skdb 
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15:14 < kristianpaul> or s setup.py file
15:14 < kristianpaul> i confess i dont read the doc at all
15:16 < klord> wonder how rtfm translates into spanish
15:16 < klord> just kidding :)
15:17 < kristianpaul> i know
15:17 < kristianpaul> is just i'm used to find the file that executes all
15:18 < kristianpaul> not all, just the main file
15:18 < kanzure> skdb is a python module
15:18  * kristianpaul guessing was not understood :(
15:19 < kanzure> so you go into python and type "import skdb"
15:19 < kristianpaul> error
15:19 < kanzure> what's the error?
15:19 < kanzure> did you install skdb?
15:19 < kristianpaul> ImportError: No module named skdb
15:19 < kanzure> yeah you didn't install it
15:19 < kristianpaul> not sure
15:19 < kristianpaul> wait
15:22 < kristianpaul> kanzure: but there is not setup.py  file and this http://pastebin.ca/1733436  dint help at all
15:30 < kanzure> yes there's no setup.py
15:31 < kanzure> why didn't that help
15:31  * kristianpaul read dfm again
15:33 < kanzure> what?
15:34 < kanzure> se hable espanol por favor
15:35 < kristianpaul> kanzure: do you spealk spanish?
15:35 < kristianpaul> speak*
15:36 < kristianpaul> nevermind i'll findout the way my selk and the fuck.. manual ;)
15:36 < kristianpaul> s/selk/self
15:37  * kristianpaul reads tfm
15:41 < kanzure> yes i speak spanish
15:42 < kristianpaul> as i write english :p?
15:43 < kristianpaul> kanzure:  look i got this error trying install pyocc http://pastebin.ca/1733452
15:44 < kanzure> kristianpaul: i read spanish as you read english
15:44 < kanzure> kristianpaul: can you edit the file and modify line 144 to put quotes around "-control" in there?
15:44 < kanzure> ybit: this is your fault, btw
15:45 < kristianpaul> sure give a minute
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15:51 < kristianpaul> kanzure: wich file?
15:58 < kanzure> src/setup.py
15:58 < kanzure> or you can just use the .deb
15:59 < kristianpaul> i tried that, and dont install, and i prefer compile this things first
15:59 < kanzure> what happened to it?
16:00 < kristianpaul> kanzure: in line 144 thre is not such -control
16:00 < kanzure> i just told you how to fix it
16:00 < kanzure> try the .deb
16:01 < kristianpaul> http://pastebin.ca/1733465
16:01 < kristianpaul> kanzure: error^
16:01 < kanzure> why are you using amd64
16:02 < kristianpaul> yup
16:02 < kristianpaul> cause i have and amd64 processir
16:02 < kristianpaul> processor*
16:02 < kristianpaul> i also have mipsel btw
16:03 < kristianpaul> kanzure: there is no amd64 support for pyocc so then for skdb?
16:04 < kanzure> there is amd64 support for pythonocc
16:04 < kanzure> but not in the .deb yet
16:04 < kanzure> you'll have to fix src/setup.py by surrounding -control in quotes "-control" and run it again
16:04 < kristianpaul> well if you give me the debsource i can build it
16:04 < kristianpaul> ah ok
16:05 < kristianpaul> kanzure: there is no control word inside setup.py
16:05 < kanzure> sorry i meant "classic"
16:06 < kristianpaul> arggg !! :D
16:06 < kristianpaul> kanzure: i dont undestand you al the time :(
16:08  * kristianpaul vim +144 wrapper/environment.py not setup.py !!
16:08 < kanzure> ack
16:10 < kristianpaul> kanzure: http://pastebin.ca/1733474
16:10 < kristianpaul> so is bad to be amd64 ? :p
16:12 < kanzure> oh
16:12 < kanzure> you have to edit environment.py
16:12 < kanzure> technologiclee4: this is the same thing you had to do
16:12 < kanzure> um, i mention it on the wiki
16:13 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc
16:13 < kanzure> search for x86 on there
16:13 < kristianpaul> k
16:17 < kanzure> hm nothing
16:17 < kanzure> well anyway there's something you have to edit in environment.py
16:17 < kanzure> in particular there's this line that sets the architecture to the result of a python call
16:17 < kanzure> and that's not what it should be.. for amd64, you should set it to k8
16:18 < kristianpaul> ok
16:18 < kristianpaul> yes nothing called x86
16:18 < kanzure> ok one sec
16:19 < kanzure> search for march in environment.py
16:19 < kanzure> ECA = ['-O0','-march=%s'%platform_machine]
16:19 < kanzure> change that to
16:19 < kanzure> ECA = ['-O0','-march=k8']
16:19 < kristianpaul> k
16:21  * kristianpaul guess i now have to wait it compiles
16:21 < kristianpaul> thanks kanzure :)
16:22 < kanzure> did that work
16:22 < kristianpaul> seems it did, so far..
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16:39 < kanzure> i'm still installing a fresh copy of ubuntu
16:40 < kristianpaul> wich version?
16:40 < kanzure> 9.10
16:40 < kanzure> just testing pythonocc.deb 
16:41 < kristianpaul> try trisquel :)
16:41 < kanzure> why
16:41 < kristianpaul> is free :)
16:41 < kristianpaul> libre*
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17:17 < kristianpaul> seeems compiling pyocc will be done  the next year :/
17:22 < kristianpaul> finally !
17:26 < kristianpaul> kanzure: http://pastebin.ca/1733533
17:26 < kristianpaul> also
17:27 < kristianpaul> >>> import skdb
17:27 < kristianpaul> You probably don't have pythonOCC installed correctly
17:27 < kristianpaul> but the other steps on pyocc install worked well
17:30 < kanzure> did you do python setup.py install after you ran python setup.py build ?
17:34 < kristianpaul> i did: time sudo python setup.py install -NO_GEOM
17:34 < kristianpaul> as the fm said
17:34 < kanzure> hrm
17:34 < kanzure> did that work?
17:35 < kristianpaul> running install_egg_info
17:35 < kristianpaul> Writing /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pythonOCC-0.3.egg-info
17:35 < kristianpaul> Creating __init__.py script.
17:35 < kristianpaul> __init__.py script crea
17:35 < kristianpaul> ted.
17:38 < kristianpaul> yes i guess kanzure 
17:38 < kristianpaul> how can i test pyocc
17:38 < kristianpaul> ?
17:39 < kristianpaul> i ran /src/samples/Level1/Animation$ python animation.py
17:39 < kristianpaul> is okay
17:40 < kristianpaul> yay !
17:42 < kanzure> that's one way. another way is to go to skdb and run paths.py
17:45 < kristianpaul> ah, wait
17:48 < kristianpaul> kanzure: a pyocc example rise on my screen
17:48 < kristianpaul> the this error http://pastebin.ca/1733562
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17:52 < kanzure> kristianpaul: go to skdb/clients
17:52 < kanzure> and run python skdb-get.py lego
17:52 < kanzure> python skdb-get.py screw
17:56 < kristianpaul> you must be root
17:56 < kristianpaul> ??
17:56 < kristianpaul> why kanzure ?
17:59 < kristianpaul> kanzure: http://pastebin.ca/1733577
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