--- Day changed Mon Jan 04 2010 00:00 < fenn> now if only i could stack up screen .. screens 00:01 < genehacker> fenn why not wear shutter glasses so you could stack more 00:01 < genehacker> IE by displaying them in 3d 00:02 < genehacker> wait a second are you using internet on an airplane fenn? 00:03 < fenn> yeah 00:03 < fenn> i'd rather not wear shutter glasses 00:03 < fenn> i do want to do a 3d effect by headtracking with the webcam 00:03 < fenn> would need an ir led though because it's too slow 00:04 < genehacker> shutter glasses + head tracking + hand tracker= incredibly awesome 00:05 < genehacker> I once paid a visit to the 3d visualization lab in the aerospace building and they have a setup as described above 00:05 < genehacker> it's amazing 00:07 < genehacker> are you flying within the US? 00:07 < genehacker> to a location in the US? 00:08 < fenn> i'm going from DC to SF 00:09 < genehacker> have fun during the last hour of the flight 00:09 < fenn> in utah, arrive at midnight PST (2am texas time) 00:11 -!- Aliks [n=a@76-14-163-117.wsac.wavecable.com] has quit [] 00:11 -!- Aliks [n=a@76-14-163-117.wsac.wavecable.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:11 < Aliks> booted for a minute 00:32 < fenn> genehacker: i saw avatar 3d with cross polarized projectors and there was zero crosstalk even with the disposable glasses they hand out 00:33 < fenn> shutter glasses always seem to break somehow 00:34 < fenn> i'd think a slight modification at the factory could make a workable cross polarized LCD screen 00:35 < fenn> basically add another layer of liquid crystal 00:35 < fenn> it wouldnt even need any pixels 00:37 < fenn> actually you could do it as an aftermarket add-on 00:42 < fenn> of course this does the job for 0.0001% the cost: http://individual.utoronto.ca/iizuka/research/cellophane.htm 00:43 < fenn> if you dont mind losing half the srreen 00:54 -!- flamt_ [n=root@70.50.177.225] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:00 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-48-104.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:06 -!- flamt [n=root@70.50.177.225] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:24 < QuantumG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YQBuuhh76A 01:24 < QuantumG> about about t=15m there's a demo 01:24 < QuantumG> err, at about 01:24 < QuantumG> 105ft balloon drop 01:25 < QuantumG> kft 01:36 < MrClif> I saw a 3D LCD display at frys last year. 01:52 < QuantumG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gJMv9YtX8I 01:52 < QuantumG> some cool robots 02:04 < bkero> fenn: They're using a circular polarizer, not linear 02:05 < ybit> kanzure: congrats on making it to 20 02:05 < ybit> fenn: can i has room? 02:05 < bkero> kanzure: gg 02:22 -!- Trooem [n=adfasfda@S0106001d724fcb1d.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:37 -!- nsh [i=sbp@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:38 -!- nsh [i=sbp@59.176.232.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:39 -!- nsh [i=sbp@59.176.232.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:40 -!- nsh [i=sbp@59.176.232.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:41 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:41 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:44 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:44 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:46 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:46 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:47 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:47 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:49 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:49 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:50 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:50 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:03 -!- Aliks [n=a@76-14-163-117.wsac.wavecable.com] has left #hplusroadmap [] 04:49 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220-253-19-54.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:06 < Utopiah> Aliks: since you seemed interested in computational chemistry you might be interested in Voronoi diagrams and http://www.ebookshare.net/professional-and-technical/Hierarchical-Voronoi-Graphs-Jan-2010-eBook-ELOHiM-8052.html ) 07:00 < kristianpaul> Utopiah: thanks, i remenber get that video, i could not saw it continuis due my poor concection 07:06 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220-253-19-54.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:23 -!- Netsplit verne.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: drgone 08:23 -!- Netsplit over, joins: drgone 09:14 -!- mage2 [n=mage@66.179.208.36] has quit [Client Quit] 09:20 -!- mage2 [n=mage@66.179.208.36] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:32 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-48-104.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:32 < genehacker> well this feels weird 10:32 < genehacker> I just my wisdom teeth removed 10:34 < genehacker> anyone know how I can cryopreserve my wisdom teeth using only supplies bought at a supermarket 10:35 < genehacker> WARNING MY MENTAL CAPACITIES MAY STILL BE UNDER AFFECT OF ANAESTHETIC PLEASE BE AWARE OF THIS 10:40 < Trooem> well, it's a teeth so... i guess you can be a little more rough with it 10:40 < kanzure> crap i'm so behind on email 10:42 < Trooem> i would... put the teeth around a gelatin substance of sort. like jelly. 10:42 < Trooem> then freeze it in very very low temperature. instantly. 10:42 < Trooem> no damage that way. mwa hahahahaha 10:43 < Trooem> why would you want your wisdom teeth 10:46 < kanzure> stem cells 10:46 < genehacker> not sure it's worth it though 10:46 < genehacker> there are adult stem cells in bone marrow and... 10:48 < genehacker> so it seems I have mostly full mental capacity as determined by a reaction time test 10:48 < kanzure> that's what i thought too 10:48 < kanzure> but i was wrong 10:49 < genehacker> ok, please remind me if I seem to be something crazy 10:50 < genehacker> like trying to do diy stem cell preservation... 10:50 < genehacker> do you think it is worth it 10:52 < genehacker> Happy Birthday Kanzure 10:54 < Trooem> there are many ways to get stem cells... 10:54 < Trooem> from others. 10:54 < Trooem> hahaha 10:54 < Trooem> especially in Asia.. 10:54 < genehacker> indeed 10:54 < genehacker> but stem cells from others people have problems 10:55 < Trooem> wonder if i should be saving my young blood right now for future cloning... hmm 10:55 < genehacker> age 10:55 < genehacker> ? 10:55 < Trooem> 25 10:55 < kanzure> http://biocurious.org/ SF / bay area biology-oriented hackerspace 10:56 < Trooem> ahahahaha! 10:56 < genehacker> BACKUP YOUR DNA SO IT DOESN"T GET CORRUPTED 10:56 < Trooem> just remove the 'o' there in every word. 10:56 < Trooem> ROFL who came up with that name anyways 10:56 < Trooem> BIOFURIOUS 10:56 < Trooem> BIOSERIOUS 10:56 < Trooem> BIOCURIOUS 10:56 < Trooem> ahahaha 10:57 < Trooem> hmmm hhmm excuse my sense of humour 10:57 < Trooem> San Francisco is a nice place... 10:57 < Trooem> People ought to live in warm weather. 10:57 < Trooem> and around nice architecture. 10:57 < Trooem> design that is 10:58 < Trooem> damn Canada looks like it's full of shacks 10:58 < genehacker> well that's lame wisdom teeth stem cells aren't that good for much 11:00 < genehacker> really only curing advanced gingivitis 11:01 * Trooem is watching land of the lost. 11:01 < genehacker> why? 11:01 < Trooem> because will ferrel is an asshole i want to beat up 11:02 < Trooem> im just bored out of my mind 11:02 < genehacker> ok 11:02 < Trooem> i'm buying a Kindle DX 11:03 < Trooem> should I? 11:03 < Trooem> also buying... Sony Vaio X 11:03 < Trooem> for it's lightweight...ness 11:03 < Trooem> probably a bad idea for it's price.. 11:03 < Trooem> i am so... 11:03 < Trooem> materialistic 11:04 < Trooem> damn 11:04 < Trooem> i would also like to buy a girl online 11:04 < Trooem> wives for sale 11:04 < Trooem> wondering if it works... 11:04 < genehacker> buy the barnes and noble thing it's being hacked like crazy 11:04 < genehacker> so that would explain your recent trip to korea? 11:04 < Trooem> i'm looking for large screens.. 11:05 < Trooem> wow dude how did you know that? 11:05 < Trooem> kanzure. dont tell on me~ 11:05 < Trooem> my recent trip to korea was because... i haven't been there for 10 years. 11:05 < Trooem> hahaha 11:05 < genehacker> your IP address was in korea, were you perhaps on a visit to seoul? 11:06 < Trooem> yes...... 11:06 < Trooem> lived there for year and a half 11:06 < Trooem> now in canada 11:06 < genehacker> the university there? 11:06 < Trooem> the university there isn't so great... 11:06 < Trooem> people are lot of education, doesn't mean they have knowledge :( 11:07 < Trooem> there is a difference... 11:07 < Trooem> guess it's because korea isn't part of the anglosphere. where information is in english- it's just as not creative or abundant 11:07 < Trooem> the flow of info 11:07 < genehacker> had a friend who went there recently on an exchange program 11:07 < kanzure> too many people 11:07 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt 11:07 < kanzure> at the very bottom, does anyone know any of those people? 11:09 < Trooem> no... i have the best name that all connects on the keyboard. dont write it here. 11:09 < Trooem> it all connects in one area. ahahahahha 11:10 < kanzure> what? 11:10 < Trooem> my name. 11:11 < Trooem> if typed on keyboard. the buttons all connect on one area 11:11 < Trooem> within the keyboard 11:11 < kanzure> i think "y" is supposed to be typed by the left hand :( sorry 11:11 < Trooem> no way it's right side... one hand :( 11:11 < kanzure> haha 11:12 < Trooem> http://shop.hardgraft.com/product/2unfold 11:12 < Trooem> really nice bag 11:12 < kanzure> oh wait i think i know who michael yamashita is 11:12 < kanzure> he's from livly 11:12 < kanzure> i met him in person 11:12 < genehacker> do you have cad files for that bag? 11:13 < kanzure> wait, no 11:13 < kanzure> well there goes that idea 11:14 < Trooem> i'm selling shit on ebay! 11:15 < Trooem> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280446874518&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT 11:15 < Trooem> mwa hahahaa 11:16 < Trooem> just sold sony PRS-505 11:16 < Trooem> for 170 11:17 < Trooem> i think i'm gonna trade that sony UMPC for the bag up there. ROFL 11:17 < Trooem> sell it off and buy it. 11:17 < Trooem> the bag appears to be custom hand made... 11:17 < Trooem> listening to: 11:18 < Trooem> Castlevania Symphony of the night video walkthrough... 11:18 < Trooem> the voice actors are cool 11:18 * Trooem "What need for the shepard when the wolves have all gone?" 11:21 < genehacker> handmade as in inefficiently made? 11:22 < Trooem> sure... what makes it beautiful. 11:22 < Trooem> one of a kind aye? LOL 11:24 < genehacker> who cares if it isn't one of a kind, it only matters that it does it's job 11:25 < Trooem> yeah 11:26 < Trooem> the leather bag is very very... flat 11:26 < Trooem> ahahaha 11:26 < Trooem> i like that 11:57 < Trooem> i am........... drunk 11:57 * Trooem is drunk and happy. 13:18 < kanzure> has anyone on an i386/i686 tested the pythonocc-0.3.deb file i uploaded? 13:27 -!- nchaimov_ [n=cowtown@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:27 -!- nchaimov [n=cowtown@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 13:28 -!- nchaimov_ is now known as nchaimov 13:33 < ybit> kanzure: yeah, i tested it the other day when you mentioned it 13:33 < ybit> let me replicate the error 13:34 < kanzure> did it work? 13:34 < kanzure> blah, errors 13:34 < ybit> http://pastebin.com/m5546e989 13:35 < kanzure> well that's a useless error 13:35 < kanzure> um. 13:35 < kanzure> technically i didn't use any md5 hashes 13:35 < kanzure> so maybe i should go generate those for all of the files 13:35 < kanzure> i'm guessing this is why it thinks it's corrupt 13:38 < ybit> lame, the uni here blocks torrent sites 13:38 < ybit> reason: p2p/file-sharing 13:38 < ybit> as if browsing the web isn't file sharing 13:39 < ybit> kanzure: am i moving in or what? i need to let these guys know 13:39 < kanzure> um 13:39 < kanzure> fenn: are you alive? 13:40 < ybit> http://xoscope.sourceforge.net/hardware/hardware.html 13:44 < kanzure> ybit: i don't know what to tell you 13:44 < kanzure> i guess the answer is yes 13:51 < ybit> hm, well, i'll wait to hear back from fenn, before packing 14:08 < fenn> morning 14:09 < fenn> what's going on? 14:10 < fenn> ybit did your job in LA fall through? 14:17 < fenn> ybit: well anyway i dont mind if you stay in the room as i probably won't be back :\ 14:20 < kristianpaul> any one knows some open source versio of this http://www.vernier.com/probes/gc-mini.html ? 14:20 < kristianpaul> weill be neat ! 14:20 < kristianpaul> will be neat ! 14:22 < fenn> kristianpaul: i've never seen any open source GC 14:22 < fenn> maybe you should make one 14:22 < kristianpaul> lol 14:22 < kristianpaul> i wish i know how 14:23 < fenn> i sort of wonder what the "advanced MEMS GC chip technology" is supposed to do 14:23 < fenn> since it uses a stainless steel column 14:26 < kristianpaul> i found this http://openwetware.org/wiki/Citizen_Science/Open_Spectrophotometer_Project 14:30 -!- jm [n=j@p57B9FCAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:51 < fenn> kristianpaul: that thing sucks. this is much better: http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/light/spectrograph/spectrograph.html 15:19 < kristianpaul> ok 15:54 < Trooem> anybody got suggestions on how i can study chemistry, apart from learning from... online tutor sites such as koofers.com? 15:54 < Trooem> any methods and tactics would be appreciated. 15:54 < Trooem> shall i enter forums and ask around, network? 15:55 < QuantumG> there's some online course materials 15:56 < QuantumG> but chemistry is a billion facts with very little theory 15:59 < kanzure> Trooem: http://meta-synthesis.com/ 15:59 < kanzure> in particular see the chemogenesis s web book 16:02 < Trooem> thanks i'll look into that... 16:06 -!- danielcc [n=trey@216.218.112.182] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:07 < kanzure> hey danielcc 16:07 < danielcc> hey hey hey 16:07 < kanzure> oh! it wasn't freenode 16:07 < kanzure> freenet was the name of it 16:08 < danielcc> thats it!!! 16:08 < danielcc> like i said i heard it to be the king of cp 16:08 < danielcc> it basicly made your actions hard to track 16:09 < danielcc> with this idea you would just set your router to link to other routers in the area so you can have a huge network and just talk off of that 16:09 < kanzure> but you said it wasn't a mesh for some reason? 16:09 < kanzure> i mean it sounds like a mesh 16:10 < danielcc> maybe it is... 16:10 < danielcc> i always thought that to be more of a cloud... 16:10 < kanzure> eventually i need to get back to the cnc design work 16:10 < danielcc> cloud mesh web 16:10 < kanzure> can't seem to track down jorge barrera anywhere 16:10 < danielcc> well it is your main focus... 16:10 < kristianpaul> fenn: thats better indeed 16:11 < kanzure> danielcc: have you heard about the ronja project? point to point optical interconnect 16:11 < danielcc> nope... its sounds interesting though 16:12 < danielcc> but not the idea i had in mind 16:13 < danielcc> these wouldnt be hard to build 16:15 < danielcc> the main problem with this would be the fact you could not connect to multiple access points with one tranciever 16:15 < QuantumG> ya can 16:15 < QuantumG> there's linux drivers to do just that 16:16 < kanzure> er which one are you talking about trey? which project 16:17 < danielcc> ronja 16:17 < danielcc> it appears the angle of view on these things are small 16:24 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-48-104.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:53 -!- danielcc [n=trey@216.218.112.182] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:07 -!- flamt [n=root@70.50.177.225] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:18 -!- flamt_ [n=root@70.50.177.225] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:27 < ybit> http://www.ckan.net/about/ 17:30 < ybit> er, just click packages link 17:43 < kanzure> so should i go to ucla for outlaw biology? 17:43 < kanzure> to talk 17:47 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 36 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 36 normal] 18:04 < ybit> kanzure: where are the 80/20 step/iges files? 18:04 < ybit> kanzure: if you can afford it, the last talk brought in quite a few more people 18:04 < kanzure> yes but they don't do anything :( 18:04 < kanzure> :p 18:05 < kanzure> the files were found on 3dcontentcentral 18:15 < kanzure> dur? http://www.lawsofform.org/lof.html blah 18:33 < parolang`> You know, I just googled for skdb. First hit was the serial killer database. Potential ambiguity :) 18:37 < kanzure> yeah :( 18:37 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/dokuwiki/skdb 18:37 < parolang`> Yeah, found it in the topic. 18:44 < kanzure> does anyone know a search engine that returns RSS feed URLs as the result? 18:46 -!- Trooem [n=adfasfda@S0106001d724fcb1d.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:47 < QuantumG> http://nationalfilter.net.au/index.php 18:48 < QuantumG> best poll on the internet 18:50 < kanzure> http://search4rss.com/ is good but has no API 18:57 < QuantumG> btw, this is why I think everyone (on Slashdot) is an idiot http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1497216&cid=30648574 18:59 < parolang`> Good thing you don't post on Slashdot then :) 19:08 -!- Netsplit verne.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: kardan, splicer, Phreedom, CIA-52, strages, elmom, katsmeow-afk, superkuh, davemenninger, ybit, (+2 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:09 -!- nsh [i=sbp@59.176.232.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:10 -!- Netsplit over, joins: davemenninger 19:10 -!- Netsplit over, joins: ybit 19:11 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Phreedom 19:16 -!- nsh [i=sbp@59.176.232.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com] has quit [Killed by douglas.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 19:16 -!- nsh_ [i=sbp@59.176.232.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:16 -!- nsh [i=sbp@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:16 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-243-225.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:16 -!- elmom [n=elmom@hoasnet-fe29dd00-137.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:16 -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:16 -!- kardan [i=kardan@mail.brueckenschlaeger.de] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:17 -!- CIA-3 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:17 -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-120-216-184.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:17 -!- splicer [n=patrik@h104n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:17 -!- bct_ [n=bct@S0106001c1041555b.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:18 -!- nsh [i=sbp@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:18 -!- kardan [i=kardan@mail.brueckenschlaeger.de] has quit [Success] 19:18 -!- kardan [i=kardan@mail.brueckenschlaeger.de] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:24 -!- rmond [n=strages@c-76-29-243-225.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:24 -!- strages [n=strages@c-76-29-243-225.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:28 < fenn> is livly/biocurious the same space? 19:29 < fenn> or maybe it doesn't exist yet 19:29 < kanzure> doesn't seem to be the same space, no 19:30 < kanzure> "Fetched 29.0kB in 2min 29s (194B/s)" joyay 19:30 < kanzure> *yay 19:31 < fenn> kanzure: could you powercycle my tubputer? 19:31 < fenn> under the bookshelf 19:32 < fenn> there's a dangly plastic bit with a pushbutton switch on it 19:32 * fenn has some "lite" eggnog.. damn californians 19:33 < kanzure> your tub is probably going to be inaccessible for a while 19:33 < kanzure> the internet connection is really really slow 19:34 < kanzure> hm it was off 19:51 < fenn> your internet is going at 200 baud? 19:52 * fenn picks up the phone and makes swooshing noises 20:08 < kanzure> neat, quantification of mutation rates over 30 geenrations http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/sci;327/5961/92 20:10 < kanzure> hm the connection just picked up significantly (ok, it's not much better) 20:10 < kanzure> *generations 20:48 < kristianpaul> kanzure: what is for python-pysco ? 20:48 < kristianpaul> in skdb 20:49 < kanzure> python-ysco is not required, actually 20:53 < kristianpaul> ok, so is not fault about skdb not work well on my machine 20:53 < kristianpaul> is not its fault* 20:54 -!- kristianpaul [n=kristian@190.7.148.137] has quit ["leaving"] 20:54 -!- kristianpaul [n=kristian@190.7.148.137] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:54 < kanzure> what? 20:55 < kanzure> what do you mean skdb doesn't work well? 20:58 < kristianpaul> kanzure: help to test it please 20:58 < kristianpaul> i think something is not working as it should 21:00 < kanzure> i don't know what you're trying to do 21:01 < kristianpaul> i dont what can i do actually 21:01 < kristianpaul> dont know* 21:01 < kanzure> what? 21:01 < kanzure> oh 21:01 < kanzure> well you can run paths.py if you want 21:01 < kristianpaul> heh 21:01 < kanzure> it shows a 3D visualization of an assembly of different CAD parts 21:02 < kristianpaul> paul@micro:~/local/code2/skdb$ python paths.py 21:02 < kristianpaul> Display3d class initialization starting ... 21:02 < kristianpaul> Graphic device created. 21:02 < kristianpaul> Xw_Window created. 21:02 < kristianpaul> Viewer created. 21:02 < kristianpaul> Interactive context created. 21:02 < kristianpaul> Display3d class successfully initialized. 21:02 < kristianpaul> Traceback (most recent call last): 21:02 < kristianpaul> File "paths.py", line 172, in 21:02 < kristianpaul> lego = Package("lego") 21:02 < kristianpaul> File "/home/paul/local/code2/skdb/core/package.py", line 96, in __init__ 21:02 < kristianpaul> pkg = Package.__load_package__(name, data=data) 21:02 < kristianpaul> File "/home/paul/local/code2/skdb/core/package.py", line 128, in __load_package__ 21:02 < kristianpaul> assert os.access(os.path.join(settings.package_path(package_name), file), os.F_OK) #check if present 21:02 < kristianpaul> AssertionError 21:03 < kristianpaul> paul@micro:~/local/code2/skdb$ 21:03 < kristianpaul> sorry but look ^ kanzure 21:03 < kanzure> yeah you probably didn't run clients/skdb-get.py 21:03 < kanzure> you have to download skdb packages too :) 21:03 < kristianpaul> wait 21:03 < kanzure> so say: 21:03 < kanzure> python clients/skdb-get.py lego 21:03 < kanzure> in particular you should sudo that 21:03 < kanzure> sudo python clients/skdb-get.py lego 21:03 < kristianpaul> yes i remenber 21:03 < kanzure> this will install the lego package to /usr/share/local/skdb/ 21:04 < kristianpaul> paul@micro:~/local/code2/skdb$ sudo python clients/skdb-get.py lego 21:04 < kristianpaul> dir_location is: /home/paul/local/code2/skdb/clients/skdb-get.py 21:04 < kristianpaul> dir_location is: ['', 'home', 'paul', 'local', 'code2'] 21:04 < kristianpaul> getting package: lego 21:04 < kristianpaul> command is: cd "/usr/local/share/skdb/"; git clone "http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb-packages//lego/.git"; chmod -R a+rw * 21:04 < kristianpaul> fatal: destination directory 'lego' already exists. 21:04 < kristianpaul> paul@micro:~/local/code2/skdb$ 21:04 < kristianpaul> so?.. 21:04 < kanzure> oh did you already download the package? 21:04 < kristianpaul> yup 21:04 < kristianpaul> i already ran that command 21:05 < kanzure> what does your config.yaml say? 21:05 < kristianpaul> hmm 21:06 < kanzure> it should say your package dir is /usr/local/share/skdb/ 21:06 < kristianpaul> kanzure: http://paste.debian.net/55634/ 21:06 < kristianpaul> yes 21:07 < kanzure> can you show me what's in /usr/local/share/skdb/lego/ ? 21:07 < kanzure> also try changing http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb-packages/ 21:07 < kanzure> to http://adl.serveftp.org/packages/ 21:08 < kristianpaul> wait 21:09 < CIA-3> skdb: kanzure * r ace14ac /config.yaml: update the package repository URL 21:10 < kristianpaul> kanzure: http://paste.debian.net/55635/ 21:10 < kanzure> yeah that's not good 21:10 < kanzure> sudo rmdir /usr/local/share/skdb/screw 21:10 < kanzure> sudo rmdir /usr/local/share/skdb/lego 21:11 < kanzure> and then update the URL in config.yaml to point to http://adl.serveftp.org/packages/ or http://designfiles.org/packages/ (either one) 21:11 < kanzure> and then run: sudo python clients/skdb-get.py lego 21:11 < kristianpaul> yes i did 21:11 < kristianpaul> is getting finally ! 21:13 < kristianpaul> okay there is alego and some arrows showing in my screen kanzure 21:14 < kristianpaul> after ran path.py 21:15 < kanzure> cool :) 21:15 < kanzure> there are some features under the "demo" menu- the main one that works right now is at the top, "add lego" 21:15 < kanzure> you can then click on which lego you want to add an additional lego 21:15 < kanzure> anyway, for now that's the most exciting visualization of what skdb is doing 21:15 < kristianpaul> - run packages/lego/demo.py to demonstrate interface compatibility 21:15 < kristianpaul> there is no this ^^^^^^^^^^ 21:16 < kristianpaul> kanzure: i want make a package ! 21:16 < kanzure> ah, well demo.py is now in /usr/local/share/skdb/lego/demo.py 21:16 < kristianpaul> ah ok 21:16 < kristianpaul> please fix readme kanzure ;) 21:16 < kanzure> to make a package you should copy either screw or lego for starters 21:16 < kanzure> (1) make a folder. 21:17 < kanzure> (2) turn it itnto a git repository 21:17 < kanzure> (3) make a metadata.yaml file, and then a whatever.py file, and start testing it with "import skdb" in a python interpreter 21:17 < kristianpaul> i also want print stuff in my reprap by apt-get is that posible ;) ? 21:18 < kristianpaul> i get some desing done in heekscadm that guess are compatibles? 21:18 < kanzure> do you have some heekscad designs already? 21:18 < kristianpaul> yup 21:19 < kristianpaul> i love heekscad 21:19 < kanzure> i guess it could be the lego 21:19 < kanzure> oh cool 21:19 < CIA-3> skdb: kanzure * r d085d48 /readme: updated the readme 21:19 < kristianpaul> is simple and intitutive 21:19 < kristianpaul> ok 21:19 < kanzure> hm. i don't have a makerbot. could you explain what you "normally" have to do to make it print out a design? 21:19 < kristianpaul> kanzure: i need a STL file 21:19 < kristianpaul> the conver to gcode 21:19 < kristianpaul> then print ! 21:19 < kanzure> yes but how do you do that 21:20 < kanzure> which buttons do you press i mean 21:20 < kristianpaul> where i press? 21:20 < kristianpaul> in replicator-g? 21:20 < kanzure> er.. is that what you use? replicator-g? 21:20 * kristianpaul cries 21:20 < kanzure> so do you do skeinforge -> replicator-g -> makerbot? 21:20 < kristianpaul> yes 21:21 < kanzure> okay cool 21:21 < kristianpaul> kanzure: btw i planning make a python based software for my growing mendel 21:21 < kanzure> i think something can be arranged 21:21 < kanzure> i'll need to look at skeinforge and replicator-g a bit, but i bet i can make it happen 21:22 < kanzure> i have skeinforge installed. do you have a link to download/install replicator-g? 21:22 < kristianpaul> wait 21:22 < kanzure> i just need to look at it 21:23 < kristianpaul> kanzure: look this http://paste.debian.net/55636/ mean while i get the link 21:24 < kanzure> we call that "opencascade puke" 21:24 < kanzure> at the bottom is the lego demo's real output 21:24 < kanzure> starting at line 122 21:24 < kanzure> the debian/ubuntu versions of opencascade were compiled with debug flags on or something.. so if someone goes back and recompiles them, without those flags, that will stop happening 21:24 < kanzure> but nobody has bothered to do this yet 21:24 < kristianpaul> argg 21:25 < kristianpaul> i backported opencascade from squeeze to lenny 21:25 < kanzure> nah that's fine 21:25 < kristianpaul> then? 21:25 < kanzure> there is no .deb of opencascade that does *not* puke 21:25 < kristianpaul> :S 21:25 < kristianpaul> kanzure: http://github.com/makerbot/ReplicatorG/downloads 21:26 < kristianpaul> i'll go sleep 21:26 < kristianpaul> se yay tomorow 21:26 < kristianpaul> nite all ! 21:26 < kanzure> my connection is still slow, but if it decides to start working some more, i'll definitely take a look at hacking replicatorg into skdb so you can "apt-get install washing machine" and such :) 21:26 < kanzure> night 21:27 < kristianpaul> cool 21:27 < kristianpaul> bye 21:38 -!- nsh_ is now known as nsh 21:57 < ybit> kanzure: did you generate the md5 hashes for the .deb? 21:57 < ybit> nm 21:57 < kanzure> nope 21:57 < kanzure> not yet 21:57 < ybit> hrm, this keyboard is plenty big but it can't keep up with my typing speed :\ 21:58 < kanzure> isn't the kernel responsible for keyboard polling? 21:58 < ybit> it's the mechanical setup of the keys 21:59 < ybit> i have to press to hard for the key to recognized 21:59 < ybit> s/to/too 21:59 < kanzure> there you go again.. dropping out words 22:00 < ybit> blame it on the keyboard? :) --- Log closed Mon Jan 04 22:31:59 2010 --- Log opened Tue Jan 05 12:40:23 2010 12:40 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:40 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 38 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 38 normal] 12:40 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 0 secs 12:41 < ybit> wb kanzure, what's going on with adl? 12:42 -!- ncravens_ [n=chatzill@93.95.107.90] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:43 < ybit> hi ncravens 12:43 -!- ncravens_ [n=chatzill@93.95.107.90] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:44 < ybit> for you nyc folks, i'm jealous: http://pulsewavenyc.com/about 12:53 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/ is back up 12:54 < kanzure> http://www.graphsynth.com/ <--- matt prettied up the site 12:54 < kanzure> apparently it's called "acquia slate" 13:02 -!- ncravens [n=chatzill@93.95.107.90] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:51 -!- ybit [i=c7581408@gateway/web/freenode/x-kcvwoqfppuoacgcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 13:59 -!- fenn [n=fenn@adsl-76-200-188-71.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:28 < kanzure> nice icon: http://mutantlabs.co.uk/images/main-bg2.jpg 14:41 -!- ybit [i=ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:41 < ybit> bkero: would you be willing to host openfarmtech.org? 14:42 < bkero> ybit: another static http site? Sure 14:43 < ybit> openfarmtech isn't static 14:43 < ybit> so, i take it, that's a no 14:43 < ybit> kanzure: who would be willing to host openfarmtech 14:47 < ybit> MrClif: would you be willing to host openfarmtech.org? 14:48 < ybit> they currently have a single person hosting it, but it has been unreliable 14:48 < ybit> it was down for over a week 14:50 -!- zancas [n=zancas@208-78-67-234-rangeroamerinc.clt.ord.sparkplugbb.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:00 -!- flamt_ [n=root@70.50.177.225] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:07 -!- cyrozap [n=cyrozap@76-204-127-73.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:12 -!- flamt [n=root@70.50.177.225] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:18 < bkero> ybit: ? 15:18 < bkero> What is it, ruby or php? 15:21 < ybit> it has some php in there 15:22 < ybit> what about mediawiki? 15:22 < bkero> whatever 15:22 < bkero> I'm set up to handle php 15:22 < bkero> and can give you a db 15:26 -!- marcin_ose [n=factor@207-119-110-176.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:26 < ybit> hi marcin_ose :) 15:26 < ybit> heath here 15:27 < ybit> bkero, meet marcin_ose 15:27 < ybit> kanzure: is bryan 15:27 < ybit> fenn is ben 15:29 < ybit> http://pastebin.com/m7a07d6b8 marcin_ose 15:29 < Trooem> your name is heath? after Wuthering heights? that's cool. 15:30 < Trooem> ledger apparently got that name after the movie 15:30 < Trooem> i want a cool name :P 15:35 -!- marcin_ose [n=factor@207-119-110-176.dyn.centurytel.net] has left #hplusroadmap [] 15:36 < ybit> Trooem: :P 15:36 < ybit> it wasn't named from that movie 15:36 < ybit> heath has been around for awhile 15:36 < ybit> in some dictionaries, it means a barren wastefield :P 15:36 < ybit> so it's not the coolest 15:36 < ybit> anywho, bkero, marcin is new to irc, that was his first time to login 15:36 < ybit> anyway, you two need to talk 15:37 < ybit> vinay gupta has been hosting, but it's been down for a couple of weeks 15:37 < ybit> i' 15:37 < ybit> what's your email? i'll cc you and him 15:39 < bkero> ben.kero@gmail.com 15:56 < ybit> alright, i'll shoot you two an email in a little while 15:56 < bkero> k 16:08 < Trooem> oh ok 16:18 -!- ybit_ [i=ybit@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:18 -!- ybit_ [i=ybit@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 16:23 < kanzure> http://www.instructables.com/id/Lego-Microtome/ 16:32 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 16:37 -!- cyrozap [n=cyrozap@76-204-127-73.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:40 -!- fenn [n=fenn@adsl-76-200-188-71.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:40 < fenn> ug i hate chip tunes 16:41 < kanzure> fenn: davinci lives 16:41 * bkero eats babbies 16:41 < kanzure> matt had to reconnect the ethernet 16:42 < kanzure> fenn: also, the tub won't be online for a few days at least 16:42 < kanzure> it turns out time warner cable decided to disconnect my internet service 16:53 -!- CIA-3 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [] 17:07 -!- CIA-44 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:20 < randallagordon> That's fun...excessive bandwidth usage? 17:21 < kanzure> i was using their online payment system, and for the past 2 months i haven't been billed on it 17:21 < kanzure> looking now i still don't see any charges 17:25 < randallagordon> You're in Austin, yeah? Have you used, or know anyone who has, Clear's WiMAX service in the area? 17:25 < kanzure> no. i do see lots of ads though. 17:27 < fenn> i tried to sign up for it but they didnt want me :( 17:27 < randallagordon> The company I'm helping build out just became a Clear retailer up here, anxiously awaiting getting my hands on some hardware to toy with 17:28 < randallagordon> Aye, their credit req's are something I'm curious about 17:28 < fenn> what am i going to do anyway, pawn off the modem? 17:28 < randallagordon> Or were you at an address outside their service area? 17:28 < randallagordon> Possibly 17:28 < randallagordon> They can't deny you if you buy the equipment outright, which is an option 17:29 < fenn> why can't they? 17:29 < fenn> i mean if they just made everyone lease the modems it wouldnt be a problem if people "stole" them 17:29 < randallagordon> But, under contract, that's exactly what they're afraid of, someone selling the equipment that is subsidied by the contract 17:29 < randallagordon> No, that's the system we currently have with cellular, everyone is essentially leasing their equipment, that's a huge problem 17:29 < randallagordon> Subsidies must go 17:29 < fenn> meh 17:30 < fenn> the problem with cellphones is they turn over in 12 months 17:30 < kanzure> mine hasn't. 17:30 < fenn> a clear modem isn't going to change much though 17:30 < randallagordon> Not specific hardware kanzure, the "Infamous 12-Month Cycle" 17:31 < fenn> i'd rather people reuse "old" modems 17:31 < randallagordon> Bingo, they've got a huge chance to change the ballgame, but they also have to work with the economics people have come to expect, hence subsidied equipment so the modem can be "free" up front 17:31 < fenn> they are near the theoretical limits anyway, so i don't see much room for improvement 17:32 < fenn> randallagordon: you can buy the modem for $70 or lease it for $5/mo or something like that 17:32 < fenn> if you only want to try it out for a few weeks, buying the modem doesn't make sense 17:32 < randallagordon> Depends on the hardware for the buyout cost, but yes, $5/mo 17:32 < fenn> what's wrong with that? 17:32 < randallagordon> Well, we'll be providing demo units where possible 17:32 < randallagordon> But that's at dealer cost 17:32 < randallagordon> We're willing to find a way to sink it 17:33 < randallagordon> Your local dealer may not be so willing 17:33 < fenn> they wanted to give me a demo unit until they ran a credit check (i have no credit history) 17:33 < fenn> at least i assume that's what happened 17:33 < randallagordon> Quite possibly 17:33 < fenn> it could have been an elaborate identity theft scam 17:33 < randallagordon> that too, heh 17:34 < randallagordon> Elborate would be the operative 17:34 < randallagordon> Thus, highly unlikely ;) 17:35 < randallagordon> We're aiming to sell "unlocked" devices (although technically that's anything WiMAX) and buck the subsidy system altogether 17:35 < fenn> what does 'unlocked' mean? 17:36 < randallagordon> I've dealt with it with customers for long enough to know it doesn't help either the provider or the customer, it just creates confusion and, in my opinion, unjusty shifts costs 17:36 < randallagordon> Not tied to a specific carrier 17:36 < fenn> er, but there's only one carrier right? 17:36 < randallagordon> Hence my subnote 17:36 < randallagordon> Although that could change rapidly if WiMAX starts catching on and people sitting on other unused licenses take note 17:37 < randallagordon> So far as I know, however, there isn't really a way to "lock" a device that uses "WiMAX 17:37 < randallagordon> " 17:37 < randallagordon> Not sure why I'm using a quote there 17:37 < randallagordon> I think I had a point I didn't quite get to 17:37 < fenn> i'm sure there's plenty of ways 17:38 < randallagordon> Oh, on the software side, aboslutely 17:38 < fenn> firmware is what i was thinking 17:38 < randallagordon> Only if the hardware providers continue to play favorites with the carriers 17:38 < kanzure> you two are boring me. 17:39 < randallagordon> which isn't likely considering how many hands are involved in Clear...they'd be directly competing with each other 17:39 < fenn> so, what does your business do now? since you dont seem to be selling any modems 17:39 < randallagordon> The fate of mobile internet is boring? 17:39 < fenn> bryan != mobile 17:39 < randallagordon> We buy, sell and trade used devices 17:40 < randallagordon> Along with selling accessories such as covers and cases and whatnot...although that side bores me for now 17:40 < randallagordon> We're looking into printing tech to let us print to blanks on-the-fly 17:40 < fenn> blank whats? 17:40 < randallagordon> So we can do custom designs 17:40 < randallagordon> Cell phone snap-on covers, cases, etc. 17:41 < fenn> hmm.. 3d printers arent usually glossy enough for discerning apple fetishists 17:41 < randallagordon> As a topic in this room, the business is bland and boring ;) 17:41 < randallagordon> Unless I start talking plans 5+ years out 17:42 * fenn is reading about the "thinned array curse" 17:42 < randallagordon> Heh, apple fetishists can suck it 17:42 * randallagordon is no fan of Apple 17:42 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinned_array_curse 17:44 < fenn> cellphones seem to be headed for a one-size-fits-all consolidation, whereas i want a more modular user-configurable hardware system 17:44 < MrClif> Hi, I saw the email about Openfarm Tech. 17:45 < randallagordon> Not if I have anything to say about it 17:45 < MrClif> I would love to host it if you haven't found a good home yet. 17:45 < randallagordon> One of my end goals would be device design 17:46 < randallagordon> My dream device would be a couple FPGAs to handle everything, including SDR functionality 17:46 < fenn> SDR? 17:46 < fenn> oh software radio 17:46 < randallagordon> Software Defined Radio 17:46 < fenn> well that's not going to happen any time soon 17:47 < randallagordon> So, yeah, one-size-fits-all, but more in a "last device you'll ever need" sense 17:47 -!- zancas [n=zancas@208-78-67-234-rangeroamerinc.clt.ord.sparkplugbb.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:47 < randallagordon> It can happen right now 17:47 < fenn> not for GHz signals 17:47 < fenn> wimax is pretty low freq though 17:48 < randallagordon> Only need it to cover up to the 2.4GHz band to cover basically all commercial apps 17:48 < fenn> oops wimax is GHz 17:49 < fenn> anyway the point was that FPGA's can't synthesize 2.4GHz signals 17:49 < fenn> they aren't fast enough 17:49 < randallagordon> WiMAX is mostly used on the 700MHz band 17:50 < fenn> see that's what i thought, but wikipedia only mentions 2.3-5GHz 17:50 < randallagordon> It runs on all sorts of freqs 17:51 < randallagordon> You can run a protocol on nearly any band, so long as you ahve the bandwidth 17:52 < fenn> ok.. but the antenna on the pole outside is a certain fixed frequency right? 17:52 < randallagordon> And you can get away from needing to generate the actual 2.4GHz signal by just generating your data signal, then do the rest the old fashioned radio way, with a carrier 17:52 < randallagordon> There are a lot of issues to overcome, yes 17:54 < fenn> interesting.. the USRP has been used for synthetic aperture radar 17:55 < randallagordon> As for antennas, I'm busy trying to find a link, I believe it was some research done at MIT, but basically the idea is to model an antenna after the cochlea...broadband antennas with amazing gain 17:56 < fenn> heh DIY cellphone tower: http://openbts.sourceforge.net/ 17:57 < randallagordon> I'd love to see nothing less than an open source radio system that has zero patent encumberances...that's a ways off, though 17:57 < superkuh> randallagordon: softrock. 17:58 < randallagordon> superkuh, I'm familiar...I was going to order a completed kit, but they were out of stock :/ 17:58 < randallagordon> haven't checked in in a couple months though 17:58 < fenn> an open FPGA system would be a nice start, and mostly just a matter of money for the chip fabbing 17:58 < randallagordon> I want a 2m version badly...I may just have to break down and actually get my iron out 17:58 < superkuh> I have a softrock 40 kit coming in the mail. 17:59 < randallagordon> Nice 17:59 < randallagordon> I want to toy with APRS...at least...receving signals, for now...still need to actually get off my rear and get licensed 17:59 < superkuh> I emailed kb9yig about the full softrock 9 kits last week but have received no response. 18:00 < superkuh> Regardless, the schematics, board layout, and part numbers are out there. 18:01 < randallagordon> holy crikey, they're completely wiped out :/ 18:01 -!- kanzure- [n=kanzure@rrcs-24-242-128-230.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:02 < superkuh> It is best to check kb9yig's site every few days. He'll have parts for a kit and it'll be gone the next day. 18:02 < randallagordon> oh wow 18:02 < randallagordon> noted 18:03 < randallagordon> http://web.mit.edu/press/2009/bio-electronics-0603.html 18:04 < randallagordon> Behold the CochleAntenna! (Anti-Trademarked) 18:04 < QuantumG> as predicted 18:07 -!- kanzure- [n=kanzure@rrcs-24-242-128-230.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25 < MrClif> yep openbts trys out their code at BM. They adapted a shade structure design of mine. 18:26 < randallagordon> BM? Burning Man? 18:26 < MrClif> yep. 18:26 < randallagordon> Well, BA. ;) 18:26 -!- jm|earth [n=j@p57B9DFA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:26 * randallagordon has yet to partake in the BM goodness... 18:27 * randallagordon sighs... 18:27 < MrClif> :-) yeah lots of hacking going on there... 18:27 < randallagordon> I have my heart set on this being the first year 18:28 < MrClif> what part of the country do you hale from? 18:28 * randallagordon ponders ways of making such a trip a tax writeoff... 18:28 < randallagordon> Oregon 18:28 < randallagordon> So I have no excuse on the distance end of things... 18:28 < MrClif> really??? so am I. 18:28 < randallagordon> Lebanon 18:28 < randallagordon> Sodaville, specifically 18:28 < MrClif> Eugene. 18:28 < randallagordon> Very nice 18:28 < randallagordon> there seems to be several of us in here 18:28 < MrClif> just landed there a month or so back. 18:29 < randallagordon> bkero is in Corvallis 18:29 < randallagordon> ...couple other guys I talked to the first few days I started dropping in, but I can't remember their handles 18:29 < MrClif> I've been lucky enough to fly to BM these past few years. 18:30 < MrClif> I have a friend in Albany who drove the truck this year. 18:30 < randallagordon> Awesome...I had some friends at OIT who went each year 18:30 < randallagordon> Of course, the year I show up, they stop going... 18:30 < bkero> 8) 18:30 < bkero> Corvallis is pretty 8) 18:31 < MrClif> yes it is. 18:31 < randallagordon> That it is 18:31 < MrClif> so Randall, you've already been to BM? 18:31 * randallagordon wishes Petersens Butte wasn't in the way of his view of the city 18:31 < randallagordon> Negative, I want to, but haven't had the chance 18:32 < MrClif> because I hack on wifi stuff I make BM a tax writeoff. 18:32 < MrClif> I'm sure it is for the openbts guys too. 18:32 < randallagordon> That's kinda what I'm thinking 18:32 < MrClif> Just call it R&D for whatever company you have. 18:33 < randallagordon> I want to toy with some web based games that use smartphones as controllers, especially incorporating LBS goodness...so I see no reason I can't write it off ;) 18:33 < MrClif> So Bkero, I guess you want to host openfarmtech. 18:33 < kanzure> fenn: kristianpual kindly asked us to do an export tool for skdb-get to go from skdb packages to replicatorg->skeinforge->makerbot 18:33 < kanzure> was wondering if you'd be willing to take a crack at it 18:33 < MrClif> I have a fairly big server(s) in the BA. with lots of BW. 18:35 < randallagordon> *sigh*...so many B acronyms... BA? 18:35 < kanzure> bay area? 18:35 < MrClif> yep. 18:35 < randallagordon> ...likely candidate, for sure 18:36 < kanzure> bkero: ping? 18:36 < randallagordon> Nice...my company is looking at getting a half rack in PDX 18:36 < MrClif> I'm currently hosting non-profits for free. 18:37 < randallagordon> Likely stick with 1U for a while though, heh...half a rack is just geek cred for us at the moment...major overkill 18:37 < MrClif> I have extra slots in my rack also. 18:38 < bkero> kanzure: pong 18:38 < MrClif> So Bkero, I guess you want to host openfarmtech? 18:39 < bkero> Sure 18:40 < bkero> Mediawiki? 18:40 < MrClif> I have twiki installed but i'm happy to install other packages. 18:41 < bkero> Up to you 18:41 < bkero> Is it PHP? 18:41 < MrClif> I have a lot of disk space and currently about 50Mb/s to use. 18:41 < MrClif> les LAMP. 18:41 < MrClif> s/les/yes/ 18:42 < MrClif> with shell access ofcouse. 18:43 < bkero> I have unmetered gigabit and about 4TB at a datacentre. 18:43 < bkero> I'm going to have to figure out a caching solution. I think varnishd would work well. 18:43 < bkero> And I should learn to use it for work anyway, so... 18:44 < MrClif> I think they may have GB at isc now but I haven't checked if it came through yet. 18:44 < MrClif> its all unmetered as long as I host non-profits. 18:45 < randallagordon> bkero, OSL? 18:45 < bkero> Ah. I only host open source projects on mine :) 18:45 < bkero> randallagordon: Yea, I work for the OSL. 18:45 < randallagordon> Very nice 18:45 * randallagordon remembers visiting "The Hive" years ago 18:45 < MrClif> cool. 18:46 * bkero has a project right now that needs some special screws :/ 18:46 < bkero> Very thin ones 18:46 < MrClif> Well I would love to host some worthy non-profites thats what I built my rack for mostly. 18:46 < bkero> Up to you guys. I want to see if my caching would survive a slashdot/redditing. :P 18:47 < randallagordon> hehe, nobel cause 18:47 < MrClif> is that a distributed cache? 18:47 < randallagordon> noble even 18:48 < bkero> varnishd? 18:48 < bkero> It can use memcached, so yea. 18:48 < bkero> I shouldn't need to distribute it much. 18:48 < bkero> It's a dual quad xeon with 16gb RAM 18:48 < bkero> 802.3AD bonded gigabit adapters :) 18:48 < bkero> and 2x X25-E's for rootfs 18:48 < MrClif> cool... I have a couple of of those with 20gb or so... 18:49 < MrClif> yeah that sounds nice! 18:52 < bkero> x25e's for the databases, hilarious fast 18:53 < bkero> For DB operations, 1 is as fast as 6 SAS drives 18:53 < MrClif> yes, but wouldn't it be safer to use them in a mostly read enviorment? 18:55 < MrClif> Well, us oregonians should get together for pizza some time.. 18:58 < bkero> Where are you? 18:58 < bkero> The SSDs? 18:58 < MrClif> in Eugene. 18:58 < randallagordon> "hilarious fast", that's awesome 18:58 < bkero> Their write endurance cycle is above hard drives 18:58 < MrClif> yes the SSDs 18:58 < MrClif> Really??? 18:58 < bkero> I could write hundreds of giga to them per day and they'd last over 20 years 18:58 < bkero> gigs 18:58 < MrClif> wow... 18:59 < randallagordon> Are they SLC or MLC? 18:59 < bkero> http://it.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3532&p=11 18:59 < bkero> These ones are SLC 18:59 < MrClif> I kinda like my Supermicro cases they have 8 SATA slots in a 2U case. 18:59 < bkero> Chenbro makes a 3U case with 20 SATA slots. 18:59 < bkero> For $300 18:59 < randallagordon> wow 18:59 * randallagordon wants 18:59 < MrClif> yes Chenbro is.... wow that's cheep! 18:59 < bkero> It's on newegg 19:00 < bkero> It even came with a free Tyan motherboard for a while 19:00 < MrClif> hmmm... 19:00 < MrClif> I tend to use SM Mobos. 19:00 < MrClif> though they are a little pricy 19:01 < bkero> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219033 19:01 < bkero> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021 19:01 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-48-104.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:03 < MrClif> Anyway we have Pizza research institute down here in Eugene, and some of my hacker friends and I sometimes go there on fridays. 19:03 < bkero> Oh, you're down in Eugene, cool. 19:03 < bkero> PRI is good, it's where the science pub is too. 19:03 < MrClif> :-) 19:03 < bkero> I usually go down there to get Toshi's, Sweet Life, or Off The Waffle. 19:04 < MrClif> Well let me know when your in town. 19:04 < randallagordon> PRI? 19:04 * randallagordon raises an eyebrow... 19:04 < MrClif> yes Pizza research institute 19:04 < randallagordon> Is this just the name of a pizza joint, or...something more? 19:05 < bkero> Pizza joint 19:05 < MrClif> a pizza joint that brodens ones horizans. 19:07 < MrClif> If you guys want to come down sometime I would throw in a tour of my FreeSwitch VoIP system. 19:07 < randallagordon> I'm down 19:07 < bkero> Sure 19:07 < MrClif> my phone bill went from over $75/mo to under $6 /mo 19:07 < bkero> I'm busy this weekend, driving up to Portland to do a RAM upgrade. 19:07 * randallagordon is highly interested in building a VoIP system of his own 19:07 * bkero has asterisk running on his colo :) 19:07 < MrClif> cool... 19:08 < bkero> Phone numbers in Switzerland, India, Oregon, and Montana. 19:08 * randallagordon needs to get around to seeing what can be done about running Asterisk on his Pre 19:08 < randallagordon> Noice 19:08 < MrClif> FS was started by a frustrated * developer. 19:08 < bkero> You mean a SIP client? I'm not sure if there is one. 19:08 < randallagordon> Well, both 19:08 < randallagordon> I just want to toy 19:08 < kanzure> "we're showing that you haven't paid us. ever." 19:08 < randallagordon> One of the firmware opened up a lot of goodness via gstreamer 19:08 < randallagordon> I still need to look at what is possible 19:09 < MrClif> I have gotten service from Magic Jack. 19:09 < randallagordon> It appears that Palm is embracing SDL as the "low level" API of choice... 19:09 < bkero> I actually host the development for the Pre :) 19:09 < MrClif> Nice. 19:09 < randallagordon> Preware/webos-internals? 19:09 < bkero> Yes 19:09 < randallagordon> Very nice 19:09 < bkero> webos-internals is the VM I remember fucking with 19:09 < bkero> Hosted by the nas-central and nslu2-linux guys 19:09 < MrClif> I also have skype service on my PBX. 19:09 < randallagordon> Well, kudos! 19:10 < MrClif> Ok well I guess we can try for the 15th or there abouts if you're busy this weekend. 19:11 * randallagordon just thinks it would be cool to originate calls using the cellular network...no good reason...just to see it done 19:11 < MrClif> Hey I found a $35 12 port PoE that powers all my cisco extensions. 19:11 < randallagordon> Nice 19:12 < MrClif> you can get old cisco phones on ebay for about $35 each. 19:12 * bkero thinks it would be cool to get a data-only cell plan and use VOIP 19:12 < randallagordon> I'm going to need to look into PoE at some point for a sensor network project for hydroponics 19:12 * randallagordon agrees, whole heartedly 19:12 < randallagordon> Soon, bkero, soon... 19:12 < MrClif> yes. 19:12 < randallagordon> At least, soon without violating TOS ;) 19:13 < randallagordon> That can be done right now, lol 19:13 < bkero> It can be, but no carrier will give you a data-only plan really :/ 19:13 < bkero> I tried convincing them I was deaf 19:13 < bkero> They still didn't care. 19:13 < randallagordon> LoL 19:13 < randallagordon> Clear should change some of that 19:13 < parolang`> lol 19:13 < bkero> lol 19:13 < bkero> My friend works for clear 19:13 < randallagordon> I hope, anyways 19:13 < bkero> WiMAX is rolled out in Corvallis already. 19:14 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/ is back up now :) yay 19:14 < randallagordon> Just signed the paperwork to become a Clear dealer last week 19:14 < bkero> I share the colo with my friend who works for Clear. 19:14 < MrClif> Already???? how many years have we been waiting for wimax? 19:14 < randallagordon> Did you tell Time Warner to suck it, kanzure? (That is who you said you were with?) 19:14 < randallagordon> MrClif, too many 19:14 < bkero> MrClif: I could have had it in 2008 if I lived in Portland. :P 19:14 < kanzure> randallagordon: i made them wave my damn payments 19:14 < kanzure> and reconnect service 19:15 < randallagordon> kanzure, w00t, kick their asses 19:15 < MrClif> :-) 19:15 < randallagordon> I recently gave Comcast what-for over discoing me for "excessive use" 19:15 < randallagordon> I'm sorry that I'm in a multi-user household with multiple people streaming HD simultaneously...catch up already. 19:15 < MrClif> nice that you could pull that off. 19:16 < bkero> randallagordon: Get a business line, they don't care what you do 19:16 < bkero> and it's faster :) 19:16 < randallagordon> Even managed to get a direct reply from Scott McNulty, one of the guys who runs Comcast Voices 19:16 < bkero> I can do around 2.2MB/sec down 19:16 < kanzure> bkero: how much are you paying 19:16 < randallagordon> heh, not if you're using DOCSIS 3 ;) 19:17 < randallagordon> Unless they have started offering business plans for DOCSIS3 19:17 < bkero> Doesn't DOCSIS 3 go up pretty far? 19:17 < ybit> what are the steps to take in order for the city to adopt post-scarcity lifestyle? you have the farm, with the food and manufacturing facilities, but then what? advocate other people to do the same with their property? maybe get a neighborhood to create their own manufacturing facility and farm? 19:17 < randallagordon> My buddy gets > 10MB/s 19:17 < bkero> ybit: distributed farming? 19:17 < randallagordon> I don't have it yet, I'm sticking with the 16Mbit tier for now 19:18 < bkero> With post-scarcity, is there still a barrier to entry? 19:18 < randallagordon> I burst and saturate the interface though...kinda cool...business plans don't have "SpeedBoost" or whatever they call it, do they? 19:18 < bkero> DOCSIS 1.0 is 10Mbit, DOCSIS 2.0 is 31Mbit 19:18 < bkero> No, you get "SpeedBoost" the entire time. 19:19 < randallagordon> I pull a steady 3.3 while "SpeedBoost"ing 19:19 < bkero> Well, both DOCSIS 1 and 2 support 43Mbit down, and 10/31 upstream 19:19 < ybit> i'd like to know how much food i can expect from 6 acres (2 acre fruit tree garden, regular garden, and a 2 acre hydroponic garden) 19:19 < ybit> what the energy consumption is 19:19 < bkero> DOCSIS 3.0 supports multiplexing, so you get n * 43Mbit down 19:19 < ybit> (that's not as big a deal) 19:19 < bkero> ybit: Depends on how dense you plant :) 19:20 < ybit> and how much one can expect the manufacturing facility to produce, what are the communities needs, how many people can we realistically take care of with this setup 19:20 < bkero> Some plants grow like shit when planted densely, others grow fine. 19:20 < fenn> ybit: cities import resources, by definition 19:20 < ybit> hydroponic garden allows a city to grow stuff in their buildings 19:21 < randallagordon> http://omegagarden.com 19:21 < fenn> not really, not unless you have some magic energy source 19:21 < randallagordon> That would be the limiting factor 19:21 < ybit> i don't know how well this will take off, maybe it will, maybe it will be a mild movement until we have mol. assemblers? 19:22 < ybit> this being start a self-sufficient community based on non-mol. assemblers, (through what i've described) 19:22 < MrClif> I have a friend who just planted a 7 acre farm in NM. 19:22 < randallagordon> Let's "just" build a giant solar array in space and beam the energy back via microwave. Problem solved. ;) 19:22 < fenn> we have "stuff assemblers" - why do molecular assemblers change anything? 19:22 < MrClif> and we can cook our food too! 19:23 < ybit> and hope that others start to adopt it, i think some tech will be adopted, you can lower the costs of certain machines, making the standard of living better because the costs of these goods are dropped as well, making more goods accessible to more people? 19:23 < ybit> fenn: because you don't need so much space 19:23 < randallagordon> MrClif, that farm, is it hydro? 19:23 < fenn> most places are mostly empty space anyway 19:23 * randallagordon has a small hydro setup in a spare bedroom...has interestes in CEA 19:24 < fenn> SHELVES 19:24 < ybit> http://imgbin.org/images/1125.png 19:24 < ybit> the top part is the 19 acres 19:25 < ybit> the bottom part well, it needs to be revised, but that's the inaccurate drawing of the 37 acres 19:25 < kanzure> sigh 19:25 < MrClif> nope just a typicall farm. 19:25 < ybit> but it isn't optimized for community needs, neither are 19:25 < fenn> i see a lot of white space 19:25 < MrClif> how long is the runway? 19:26 < ybit> the runway was so that i could share with other commuinities across the nation, i've since decided it's best to use the land to produce more stuff? hrm.. 19:26 < MrClif> were is your land? 19:26 < ybit> MrClif: florence, al 19:26 < ybit> er, center star , al, outside of florence, al 19:26 < MrClif> ah... 19:27 < ybit> MrClif: hard to say how long it is, this is all just made up on the spot 19:27 < ybit> not accurate 19:28 < ybit> the well, the fruit trees are already there, we dig the pond within the month 19:28 < MrClif> well 3000' would be just fine 2400' in a pinch for most planes. 19:28 < ybit> the creek is there as well 19:29 < ybit> kanzure: you are sighing, why? 19:29 < kanzure> wtf are you doing 19:29 < ybit> great question 19:30 < kanzure> ok. then get back to work 19:30 < kanzure> i don't mean to be a party pooper. 19:30 < ybit> too late :) 19:30 < MrClif> I was starting to wonder if anyone here ever got any work done. ;-) 19:31 < kanzure> believe it or not, before you showed up we did 19:31 < kanzure> ever since i gave that stupid presentation 19:31 < MrClif> Right... 19:31 < kanzure> nobody has done a thing 19:31 * fenn is on vacation, or something 19:31 < kanzure> well i only mention you because you showed up around the time of the presentation :) 19:31 < fenn> actually i think i went on vacation after moving out of the mold hole (the retreat) 19:31 < kanzure> mabe that mold was doing something good 19:32 < kanzure> go download replicatorg and hack it into skdb 19:32 < fenn> ug 19:32 < kanzure> i can't do everything all at once :( 19:32 < fenn> how am i supposed to figure out how to make skeinforge work? 19:32 < kanzure> i need you guys 19:32 < kanzure> i think you should ignore skeinforge for now 19:32 < kanzure> that's my gag reflex at least 19:32 < fenn> but.. but 19:32 * fenn has NIH syndrome 19:33 < kanzure> me too.. at least when it comes to skeinforge 19:33 < fenn> hm well at least replicatorg has a project page 19:33 < kanzure> i've never used replicatorg but i imagine there's a simple way to say "skdb.build -> replicatorg" or somesuch 19:33 < kanzure> heh 19:34 < ybit> see, the problem i'm seeing is that i'm able to be self-sufficient, but i don't want it to just be me and some friends, i'd like for the whole town and surrounding cities to be so as well. the problem i'm trying to figure out is how to do this. skdb and facilities with the equipment to make quite a bit of this stuff, the farms like factor-e-farm, and some other stuff will contribute in raising the standard of living; potentially freeing time for people 19:34 < fenn> lulz "Support as much of the GCode specification as possible" 19:34 < kanzure> ybit: i think you should focus on scaling up *after* you have something that works 19:35 < ybit> i'd rather not going about this problem blindly 19:35 < kanzure> what problem 19:35 < ybit> s/going/go ..the one stated above 19:36 < kanzure> yes, the problem is scaling up 19:36 < kanzure> but you don't even know what your'e scaling up yet 19:36 < kanzure> i thought you just said you don't want to be blind? 19:36 < ybit> indeed 19:36 < ybit> that's why i come in here and ask for random people to pick apart flaws in my logic 19:37 < kanzure> fenn: did you see killburn's email to om re: skdb and one-click ordering? 19:37 < kanzure> i guess i should say s/one-click ordering/one-arm ordering/ har har har 19:37 < fenn> no i am way behind on email 19:37 < kanzure> me too.. for once. 19:37 < kanzure> anyway that was a good email and worth reading (among others that suck) 19:38 < kanzure> it wasn't anything new but it was nice to see our ideas being bounced back at us 19:38 < fenn> hm 19:39 < fenn> i think i need to set up IMAP forwarding 19:39 < fenn> for email to not suck 19:39 < kanzure> whyzthat 19:39 < kanzure> where are you going to forward it to? 19:40 < fenn> my local machine, wherever that happens to be 19:40 < fenn> i think IMAP is sort of like a distributed mailbox (i think) 19:41 < fenn> worst case scenario i can git clone my ~/mail/ right? 19:41 < fenn> actually that won't work because sdf doesn't have enough disk space :( 19:43 < fenn> was "killburn" highly recent? (last half hour) 19:43 < kanzure> no, last few days though 19:43 < ybit> am i wrong in thinking that mol. assemblers will get us to post-scarcity? 19:43 < ybit> is post-scarcity the answer 19:44 < ybit> i'm going to say yes to the latter 19:44 < QuantumG> mol. assemblers will be restricted 19:44 < QuantumG> the writing is on the wall on that one 19:44 < ybit> ? 19:44 < fenn> says who? 19:44 < QuantumG> they're already legislating it... and the technology doesn't even exist yet 19:44 < fenn> linkage plz 19:44 < kanzure> QuantumG: who cares if they are legislating it? 19:44 < ybit> please 19:45 < kanzure> fenn: i was way off. "Jonathan Kuniholm" 19:45 < QuantumG> so unless someone deliberately leaks it, it'll be as restricted as nuclear materials. 19:45 < ybit> meh 19:46 < QuantumG> although, frankly, if nuclear materials were capable of self-replicating I don't know how restricted you could make them :) 19:46 < kanzure> you only need to leak a replicator once 19:46 < fenn> nuclear non-proliferation worked because you can't create uranium from everyday materials 19:46 < fenn> exzackerly 19:46 < ybit> QuantumG: where did you read this? is this just hearsay? 19:46 < QuantumG> ya kidding right? 19:46 < kanzure> QuantumG is into this sort of trolling 19:46 < QuantumG> kanzure fuck you 19:47 < QuantumG> I'm not trolling 19:47 < kanzure> it's true though 19:47 < ybit> if you could link to some discussion or whatever it is, that would be nice 19:47 < kanzure> tell me you're not excited by trying to make ybit give up 19:47 < QuantumG> read any literature on molecular manufacturing 19:48 < ybit> "We can't afford to have unrestricted molecular manufacturing widely available to individuals. Criminals and terrorists would invent new products faster than society could compensate. Hobbyists would invent grey goo for the fun of it, just as computer viruses and worms are developed and spread today. Availability to individuals implies availability to governments, which implies arms races and various covert and nasty uses. Widespread individual use of 19:48 < ybit> http://www.crnano.org/solutions.htm 19:48 < fenn> anyway.. ybit a lot of the technologies/social structures needed to make good use of molecular assemblers are also needed to make good use of regular fabrication machinery 19:48 < ybit> it doesn't mention legislation but it's certainly a weird take on it 19:48 < kanzure> fenn: yep 19:49 < fenn> crnano is dingbatty 19:49 < QuantumG> ya.. about 90% of what is written about mol. manufacturing is about restricting it.. 19:49 < kanzure> *cough* 19:49 < QuantumG> its like a requirement of any funding application too 19:50 < fenn> "criminals and terrorists would invent new products faster than society could compensate"?? 19:50 < fenn> fscking google those terrorists!!! 19:50 < QuantumG> they'd be free 19:50 < QuantumG> we can't have that 19:50 < kanzure> QuantumG: are you serious? 19:50 < ybit> :P 19:51 < QuantumG> am I serious that people think that? yes 19:51 < kanzure> no are you serious that you don't want me freely making things 19:51 < QuantumG> quite the opposite 19:51 < kanzure> okay. i feel slightly better now. 19:51 < kanzure> then why are you propagating all this other crap? 19:52 < ybit> we can all look silly with emoticons which depict a tongue hanging out of the mouth now 19:52 < QuantumG> cause they're fuckers and you need to be aware of it 19:52 < kanzure> or i can just avoid them 19:52 < QuantumG> you can't avoid it if you're not aware of it 19:52 < ybit> hard to avoid if you aren't aware of them in the first place 19:52 < ybit> hey, stop that~ 19:52 < kanzure> it's worked so far 19:52 < kanzure> but in general yes i do know that people suck 19:52 < ybit> <- example 19:53 < fenn> ybit stop sucking! 19:54 < QuantumG> its really sad when you see the best people in the field toeing the line on non-proliferation 19:54 < kanzure> blah internet connection just dropped like a rock 19:54 < QuantumG> Merkle has written some stuff where he describes a "safe containment" system for non-proliferation. 19:55 < kanzure> really? 19:55 < QuantumG> you do all your experimenting in the containment system and then you have to get permission to get your creation built on a non-contained system.. which are restricted. 19:55 < ybit> link, linkage appreciated 19:55 < kanzure> that is sad. 19:56 < kanzure> so what i keep wondering about, on a broader level 19:56 < kanzure> is that if these people are really worried about local disasters that we can cause 19:56 < kanzure> then why are they not worried that some super ai and/or super goo is coming to get us from another galaxy and or solar system 19:56 < fenn> because so far it hasn't 19:56 < kanzure> because if you hit the exponentials somewhere else in the galaxy it doesn't take that long to happen 19:56 < QuantumG> yeah, umm.. it was probably in "Nanotechnolgy is coming" or "Speeding the development of molecular nanotechnology" http://www.merkle.com/merkleDir/papers.html 19:57 < ybit> thanks QuantumG 19:57 < fenn> it's extremely unlikely that extraterrestrial nanotech will crash-land on earth before we develop it ourselves 19:57 < kanzure> yeah but let's say that they get their wish 19:57 < fenn> personally i think extraterrestrial nanotech crash-landed on earth 4 billion years ago... 19:57 < kanzure> and they preventa ll human development 19:57 < MrClif> is that like Spiderman 3?? 19:57 < QuantumG> kanzure: we could detect battle cruisers around a nearby star and the governments of the world wouldn't be concerned. 19:57 * ybit procedes to rape the server 19:57 < kanzure> QuantumG: that's not what i'm talking about 19:58 < ybit> proceeds, w/e 19:58 < kanzure> we do not have full control of the galaxies.. so controlling our local planet isn't going to prevent a super intergalactic grey goo incident 19:58 * kanzure gives ybit some procedes to rape the server 19:58 < ybit> :) 19:59 < fenn> ybit: don't you already have a mirror? 19:59 < ybit> not of that site 19:59 < QuantumG> http://www.imm.org/publications/reports/repnj9902/ 19:59 < ybit> give me a few minutes though 19:59 < kanzure> hey why isn't my site torrented yet? 19:59 < ybit> because we mentioned archiving it 20:00 < ybit> h+ archive: books, papers, and sites of interest 20:00 < QuantumG> there's a certain element of human thinking that wants the world to be static and unchanging 20:00 < fenn> it's called getting old 20:00 < QuantumG> "as bad as it is right now, at least I know how bad it is." 20:00 * fenn was reading future shock 20:01 < fenn> i should have stole that book 20:01 < QuantumG> .. and people grudgingly accept change. 20:02 < QuantumG> but, to be honest, there's also a sensible fear of power.. and don't go saying "well, we're happy geeks, we'll never use our power to dominate others.." cause every day I hear some geek proclaiming how he thinks it should be and shudder to imagine him having any real power. 20:05 < fenn> ... so we should give all the power to reactionary governments? 20:05 < QuantumG> ybit: that link has a nice set of references 20:06 -!- zancas [n=zancas@dsl092-134-109.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:06 < kanzure> hello zancas 20:07 < QuantumG> fenn: taking their power away in a way that doesn't transfer it to someone else would be nicer.. 20:07 < fenn> hmm imap doesn't fix my problem 20:07 < QuantumG> but I don't really have the solution to that.. the next closest thing is to get away from them 20:07 < kanzure> yep 20:08 < fenn> QuantumG: i would hate to live in your world where everybody is powerless 20:08 < kanzure> fenn: what problem are you having precisely? 20:08 < fenn> kanzure: not enough server space on sdf to keep every message for all eternity 20:08 < kanzure> hm 20:08 < QuantumG> fenn: it's not my world, and you do live in that world 20:08 < zancas> howdy 20:08 < fenn> QuantumG: whatever 20:09 < kanzure> QuantumG: that's where you and i differ on opinions 20:09 < kanzure> you think it's hopeless 20:09 < QuantumG> not at all 20:09 < kanzure> "and you do live in that world" 20:09 < kanzure> "where everyybody is powerless" 20:09 < kanzure> s/everyybody/everybody/ 20:10 < QuantumG> yeah.. you live in a world where people have allowed power to be concentrated into the monstrosities of governments and corporations that we see around us. 20:10 < QuantumG> doesn't mean there's nothing we can do about it. 20:10 < fenn> that's different from nobody having power 20:10 < QuantumG> yes, sorry, it's a minor difference 20:11 < QuantumG> power is relative and the vast majority of people are powerless compared to national interests 20:11 * fenn thinks this is rapidly devolving into philosophy 20:11 < QuantumG> damn it 20:11 < QuantumG> hate it when that happens 20:11 < kanzure> yawn 20:11 < kanzure> back to work 20:12 < kanzure> these torrents are too slow 20:13 < kanzure> does anyone know of a fast way to steal sql server 2003+? 20:14 < fenn> why would anyone want that 20:14 < kanzure> recovering some data from an MS SQL database 20:19 < genehacker> unrestricted molecular manufacturing is fun molecular manufacturing 20:19 < genehacker> besides if you unrestrict it that means everyone can make their own countermeasures 20:19 < genehacker> thus ensuring no greygoo 20:19 < kanzure> um 20:19 < kanzure> no 20:21 < fenn> today's lineup, it's the gray goo versus the green goo, let's watch! 20:21 < kanzure> meet the green goo, just the same as the grey goo 20:21 < fenn> no no, it's green 20:21 < genehacker> ah the equivalent of a boxing match in the future 20:23 < randallagordon> genehacker, that needs to be a t-shirt, "unrestricted molecular manufacturing is fun molecular manufacturing" 20:23 < genehacker> really? 20:24 < fenn> no 20:24 < genehacker> just what I thought 20:24 < genehacker> back to messing around with sympy 20:25 < genehacker> and figuring out why my backup drive is messed up 20:26 < QuantumG> I'm not sure that the non-proliferation fervor is at such a high level of acceptance that Nature would refuse a "how to bootstrap to molecular manufacturing" paper just yet. 20:27 < genehacker> is there any nonproliferation fervor? Are people already firebombing matter compiler companies? 20:28 < QuantumG> there's dozens of people writing about the importance of restricting it and many more politicians trying to figure out how banning it will make them look smart. 20:29 < genehacker> what politicians? 20:29 < genehacker> protip: replicate faster than they legislate and you won't have a problem 20:31 < randallagordon> bingo 20:32 < QuantumG> yep.. hopefully the people working on it will be free to publish their techniques so the revolution can begin. 20:32 < QuantumG> cause they wont start it 20:32 < genehacker> there are people who want to regulate debugging tools 20:32 < genehacker> they will never succeed 20:33 < QuantumG> those tools already exist 20:33 < QuantumG> suffocating the baby when it is still in the cradle is easier 20:33 < genehacker> free to publish their techniques? who would prevent them? government black ops ninjas? 20:33 < QuantumG> national security.. 20:33 < genehacker> what happens if it get's wikileaked? 20:33 < QuantumG> like they do with all nuclear research 20:34 < genehacker> what do they do? 20:34 < genehacker> I think you've played Deus Ex a bit too much... 20:34 < QuantumG> prevent publication.. dude, go look up any nuclear researcher.. now try to find his bibliography 20:35 < genehacker> how about we figure out how to bootstrap nanotech before they attempt to do this 20:35 < QuantumG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_secret 20:36 < genehacker> are there any restrictions currently? 20:37 < QuantumG> sure, the same act 20:37 < QuantumG> it never went away 20:37 < genehacker> on nanotech?> 20:37 < QuantumG> not that I'm aware of, no.. that's what I'm saying, we're not there yet. 20:38 < QuantumG> http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/cardozo.pdf 20:42 < kanzure> fenn: would you be willing to speak at "outlaw biology" for me? 20:43 < kanzure> ybit: go post that crap to the post-scarcity list 20:43 < kanzure> also it seems you completely ignored me. thanks 20:45 < kanzure> fenn: please check your email for something i forwarded you re: outlaw biology 20:51 * fenn grunts 20:52 < ybit> kanzure: good point 21:20 < genehacker> sympy can solve equations using solve function right? 21:21 < kanzure> yes 21:21 < genehacker> cool 21:26 < ybit> enlighten me so that i don't feel mailboxes with junk again, there are two paths i can take right now: there's the route of holding off ~5 years before any lab related research is accomplished route, i.e. build up the land that i have, put a manufacturing facility/lab in place, and be self-sustaining... before finally doing hardcore research: my research interests being life extension, mind uploading, cryonics, nanobots, molecular assemblers (desktop n 21:27 < ybit> temporarily, that is, until mol.assembly becomes viable 21:28 < kanzure> you broke off after molecular assemblers (desktop n 21:28 < ybit> yeah, skip that parenthesis part 21:29 < genehacker> I think you might have trouble becoming self sustaining, but then again that's what SKDB is for right? 21:30 < kanzure> no go away 21:31 < genehacker> affirmative 21:34 < kanzure> ybit: i think you should focus on building tools, not "preparing to one day to actually do something" 21:38 < fenn> "outlaw biology" is such an awful title 21:39 < fenn> it's like "come shoot me please" 21:41 < genehacker> is anyone of interest going to be there? 21:45 < kanzure> christopher kelty 21:47 < QuantumG> I was under the impression outlaws had the same biology as the rest of us 21:50 -!- klord [n=klord@70.114.211.130] has quit [] 21:50 -!- klord [n=klord@70.114.211.130] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:50 -!- klord [n=klord@70.114.211.130] has quit [Client Quit] 21:51 -!- klord [n=klord@70.114.211.130] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:51 < kanzure> QuantumG: :) 21:51 < kanzure> hello klord 21:52 < ybit> kanzure: you're right, but now i need to decide if i stay here or move away to do that.. 22:09 -!- thesnark [n=michael@ppp-69-221-8-47.dsl.toldoh.ameritech.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:13 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 38 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 38 normal] 22:13 -!- timschmidt [n=tim@adsl-69-209-118-77.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:14 < timschmidt> boo! 22:14 < kanzure> you scared me 22:17 < ybit> how goes it timschmidt 22:17 < timschmidt> pretty well... 22:18 < timschmidt> just passed out another key to the hackerspace tonight. 22:18 < ybit> i see that 'PLA is in stock!' and has been for about a month now :) 22:18 < ybit> how many members do you have? 22:20 < timschmidt> There are about 70 members in the Michigan RepRap group. 22:20 < timschmidt> perhaps 20 meet regularly. 22:21 < QuantumG> how many have repraps? :) 22:23 < timschmidt> Between us, there are about 10 complete machines. Perhaps 15 counting machines that aren't complete. Three have completed successful prints, I'd say five are in working order - just needing some time to tweak settings. 22:23 -!- katsmeow-afk is now known as katsmeow 22:24 < timschmidt> Nick and I recently printed most of the parts for a mendel - which he is now assembling. 22:24 < QuantumG> so what's with that 2.0 machine? 22:25 < QuantumG> I asked before but I don't remember if it was you that answered 22:25 < timschmidt> That's the mendel. Not much. It's largely identical to the 1.0 - Darwin - in every way that affects output. It is simpler to construct, and uses smaller, cheaper motors. 22:27 < timschmidt> should also be a little more durable. 22:27 < QuantumG> I read some stuff about temperature too 22:27 < timschmidt> The design process is largely iterative. Small improvements all over the place. 22:27 < QuantumG> something about not needing the platform to be enclosed/heated 22:27 < timschmidt> That's entirely a function of the plastic being used. 22:28 < timschmidt> PLA doesn't require a heated build platform 22:28 < timschmidt> ABS and several other plastics do. 22:29 < QuantumG> ohh a video 22:30 < timschmidt> The heated build platform largely functions to reduce warping of the printed part. ABS parts (subjectively) warp about 1/3 as much with a platform as without. PLA warps a tiny amount without the heated platform, but not enough to be noticeable. 22:33 < kanzure> "if you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" 22:33 < QuantumG> http://vimeo.com/6983001 looking good 22:34 < timschmidt> kanzure: context? 22:37 < QuantumG> I look forward to seeing the tool changing 22:37 < kanzure> timschmidt: someone's signature file in a random email 22:40 * kanzure just replied to kuniholm on om 22:40 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/tree/browse_frm/thread/94c4a222e07d7374/297dbdc285544512?rnum=1&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fopenmanufacturing%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F94c4a222e07d7374%3F#doc_844dd0531d6838ff 22:55 -!- thesnark [n=michael@ppp-69-221-8-47.dsl.toldoh.ameritech.net] has quit [""eat work eat work eat work sleep repeat""] 22:58 < kanzure> please stalk: "chris louden" 23:07 -!- russell987 [n=russell@c-24-61-9-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:07 < kanzure> hey russell987 23:07 < russell987> hey hey bryan 23:08 < russell987> sorry about the dealy 23:08 < russell987> delay 23:19 < QuantumG> kanzure: "Some of us reject the thinking that our planet is a comfortable maximum-security prison." 23:20 < katsmeow> heh 23:20 < QuantumG> - Bob Clarebrough 23:32 -!- nchaimov [n=cowtown@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:39 -!- technologiclee [n=l@70.114.201.242] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:53 -!- nchaimov [n=cowtown@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:57 -!- nchaimov [n=cowtown@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]