--- Day changed Tue Mar 02 2010
00:34 < genehacker> are there any other parts search engines other than octopart
00:34 < genehacker> google's failing me...
00:48 < katsmeow> alldatasheet.com <shrug>
00:55 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-52-168.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
01:00 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-52-168.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:25 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-52-168.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
01:31 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:44 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-52-168.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:25 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk
03:05 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-52-168.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
03:06 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-52-168.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:22 -!- hplusbot [ybit@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: Ctrl-C at console.]
03:22 -!- hplusbot [ybit@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:54 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-52-168.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:57 < ybit> http://designfiles.org/papers/unsorted/Everyday%20Wearable%20Computer%20Use:%20A%20Case%20Study%20of%20an%20Expert%20User.pdf
03:57 < ybit> ^ not found
03:58 < ybit> i.e. 404
04:54 < kanzure> ybit: parent dir
04:54 < kanzure> http://code.google.com/apis/socialgraph/
07:05 < fenn> holy fucking fucknuggets i can't believe the stuff i read on that website, or that i just spent 12 hours reading it
07:49 < ybit> someone feel free to paste a download link for "Designing for the Edge of Space and Beyond" http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=375218&id=5&as=false&or=false&qs=Ntt%3Djenkins%257cjenkins%2Bdennis%26Ntk%3DAuthorList%257cAuthorList%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchall%257cmode%2Bmatchall%26Ns%3DHarvestDate%257c1%26N%3D0
07:49 < ybit> hey! fucknuggets is my word :P
08:30 < kanzure> fenn: i don't understan'd sam's response from 10min ago
08:48 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@2001:0:53aa:64c:3001:55a8:52c6:ef50] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:54 < kanzure> "News is something somebody doesn't want printed; all else is advertising"
09:02 < JayDugger> That seems to contradict "It's an ill wind that blows no good."
09:02 < JayDugger> And "Every cloud has a silver lining."
09:04 < kanzure> pubget and plos? yay
09:04 < kanzure> hey what's going on here?
09:04 < kanzure> http://fabbaloo.com/blog/2010/3/2/the-social-engineering-knowledge-database.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Fabbaloo+%28Fabbaloo%29&utm_content=Twitter
09:04 < kanzure> dur, i mean
09:05 < kanzure> http://fabbaloo.com/blog/2010/3/2/the-social-engineering-knowledge-database.html
09:05 < JayDugger> Well, the Space Navigator is a pretty cool UI, even if takes extra work to use in Linux.
09:06 < kanzure> it would be nice if a few peeps drop some comments on that article
09:06 < kanzure> general fabb has been keeping his eye on skdb pretty well
09:08 < JayDugger> I could have skdb early this morning at work. I had to make a device to measure the draw depth of the concave side of toroidal mirror.
09:09 < JayDugger> I needed a 1.5-2m long rod, 2-3m of string, and a transparent ruler with a rounded tip.
09:10 < kanzure> http://torrentfreak.com/illegal-downloads-150x-more-profitable-than-legal-sales-091009/
09:12 < JayDugger> http://freakbits.com/home-cooking-is-killing-the-restaurant-industry-0222
09:15 < kanzure> gasp! how dare they
09:15 < kanzure> "homefucking is killing prostitution!"
09:16 < JayDugger> And all those companies selling pots and pans?
09:16 < JayDugger> Co-conspirators!
09:45 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:50 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:00 < kanzure> http://cooperationcommons.com/
10:00 < kanzure> just reading through http://groups.google.com/group/cooperationcommons/topics
10:00 < kanzure> seems like suresh and sam post there a lot :/
10:00 < kanzure> er, sam rose
10:00 < kanzure> not sam putman
10:01 < Utopiah> know them thanks to http://cooperationcommons.com/node/382
10:02 < kanzure> Utopiah: then maybe you can explain the squermish yesterday with sam rose to me?
10:02 < Utopiah> did you generate a behavior.xml trace file to debut your social relationship?
10:02 < Utopiah> s/debut/debug/
10:03  * Utopiah suddently sees psychologist and other counselors as social debuggers
10:04 < kanzure> can't we just do away with all this social bullshit?
10:04 < Utopiah> not really
10:05 < kanzure> sure we can.. just stop playing their silly game
10:06 < Utopiah> well you can try "Freaking start to cooperate NOW!" but I have doubts
10:10 -!- wrldpc2 [~benny@ool-44c566cb.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:10 < Utopiah> "l'enfer, c'est les autres" Sartre ("Hell is other people.")
10:12 < JayDugger> And that's why I work 3rd shift, with machines. :)
10:16 < fenn> yay me: http://www.kk.org/quantifiedself/
10:16 < fenn> probably not worth watching the video unless you enjoy watching me squirm in front of an audience
10:19 < JayDugger> Congratulations, fenn!
10:21 < kanzure> when is he publishing "the technium" >:(
10:22 < Utopiah> actually has directly http://www.quantifiedself.com/
10:22 < kanzure> "Ben started self-tracking when he wondered how much time he actually spent doing his roommate's dishes."
10:23 < kanzure> well? what was the result
10:28 < kanzure> "Weed-killer chemical turns male frogs into females" hahah i knew we were blasting the environment with terrible shit, but holy fuck
10:43 < fenn> i should google myself more often
10:44 < fenn> kanzure: if you watched the video you'd know :P
10:44 < Utopiah> fenn: http://www.google.com/alerts
10:45 < kanzure> cool, sacha picked you up
10:46 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:47 < kanzure> Ben Lipkowitz (University of California, Santa Barbara): 'An Important Source of Late Eighteenth-Century Keyboard Music'.
10:47 < kanzure> hm probably not you
10:48 < kanzure> hah: http://www.bbakira.co.uk/kanbike/bike.htm :)
10:48 < kanzure> oh look, you've inspired someone: http://michaelaheap.com/2010/02/28/a-remarkable-life-logging-project/
10:49 < kanzure> how does it feel to have your life sprayed all over the interwebs?
10:50 < fenn> I'm totally going to study late eighteenth century keyboard music just to confuse the shit out of people
10:51 < fenn> "what, don't i look like an eighty year old spaniard?!"
10:51 < fenn> who is sacha?
10:52 < kanzure> i contacted sacha in 2005 about hnb and organization tool stuff
10:52 < kanzure> and recently ybit (a few months ago) got obsessed with sacha chua
10:52 < kanzure> re: org-mode et al.
10:52 < ybit> fenn: it looked like your talk went over well
10:53 < kanzure> bee tee dubs, gary wolf was going to be the guy to break the news about pink army a while back
10:53 < kanzure> but andrew wanted to stay silent for a while longer
10:53 < ybit> sacha essentially has the setup kanzure described
10:57 < kanzure> hm: http://www.kk.org/quantifiedself/2010/02/has-self-tracking-changed-you.php only 3 comments
10:57 < fenn> WTF am i still doing awake?
10:57 < fenn> gah
10:58 < JayDugger> fenn, it's only what, 9 AM your local time?
10:58 < fenn> yes but i am supposedly waking up in the mornings now
10:59 < fenn> that damned aspie smut comedian
11:00 < ybit> glendix, sucky name, glad someone's doing it though
11:00 < ybit> http://glendix.org
11:00 < ybit> hrm, wget seems to be fetching every document from nasa.gov :-\
11:01 < ybit> where'd i go wrong? wget -r l1 -A pdf http://www.aeronautics.nasa.gov/nra_ref_docs.htm
11:01 < ybit> oooh
11:02 < ybit> oh well, at least i'll ever flippid pdf they have now :)
11:02 < JayDugger> wget --recursive --level=1 -A pdf
11:02 < JayDugger> I think you have the short options wrong.
11:03 < ybit> nah, i'm fetching from the top level that is aeronautics.nasa.gov
11:03 < ybit> i grabbed every doc from that subdomain
11:03 < ybit> that didn't have more than one level
11:04 < ybit> e.g.: http://www.aeronautics.nasa.gov/docs/
11:05 < ybit> see http://ybit.ath.cx/text/www.aeronautics.nasa.gov/
11:05 < ybit> 751 files in the tat dir
11:05 < ybit> -_- at typos
11:06 < ybit> the server is going to be running slowly it's still fetching all the data from ftp.ncbi.nih.gov/pub/TraceDB/Personal_Genomics/
11:06 < kanzure> current world sunlight projection map: http://www.opentopia.com/sunlightmaprect.html
11:06 < ybit> JayDugger: my apologies you were right
11:06 < ybit> i should sleep
11:07 < kanzure> heh, "why you want to be an engineer" http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100219.gif
11:07 < JayDugger> Happy to help, ybit.
11:08 < ybit> good find kanzure :)
11:10  * ybit sleeps
11:11 < fenn> pipl.com takes all the effort out of googlestalking
11:12 < fenn> jeebus they really do have just about everything all collated neatly in one place
11:21 < kanzure> http://flowingdata.com/2010/02/09/track-mouse-activity-on-your-computer/
11:28 < kanzure> http://zaxy.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/rat-eating-plant-discovered-in-philippines-telegraph/
11:28 < kanzure> Nepenthes attenboroughii
11:30 < kanzure> "Whilst certainly large enough to trap rodents, no rodents of any kind have yet been observed within the pitchers of this species, as indicated in the type description and through subsequent clarification by the author, who suggests that should rodents be captured by the plant, it is likely to be through misadventure rather than by design; instead, large bugs and flying insects appear to be the usual prey."
11:30 < kanzure> aww
11:30 -!- wrldpc2 [~benny@ool-44c566cb.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:30 -!- wrldpc2 [~benny@ool-44c566cb.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:39 -!- wrldpc2 [~benny@ool-44c566cb.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: wrldpc2]
11:48 < kanzure> http://www.brainmysteries.com/research/Genes_responsible_for_ability_to_recognize_faces.asp 
11:49 < kanzure> "One sleepless night increases dopamine in the human brain" http://www.sciencecentric.com/news/article.php?q=08082310
11:50 < kanzure> How to increase serotonin in the human brain without drugs http://designfiles.org/papers/neuro/How%20to%20increase%20serotonin%20in%20the%20human%20brain%20without%20drugs.pdf
11:54 < kanzure> re: genes responsible for ability to recognize faces http://designfiles.org/papers/neuro/Human%20face%20recognition%20ability%20is%20specific%20and%20highly%20heritable.pdf
11:55  * katsmeow-afk thinks http://designfiles.org/papers/neuro/How%20to%20increase%20serotonin%20in%20the%20human%20brain%20without%20drugs.pdf has at least one error: bitterness and lack of social life can cause each other, it's not a one-way street
11:56 < katsmeow-afk> and i'd put forth that one doesn't get bitter over nothing for no reason, it would take too much effort
11:58 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.sciencecentric.com/news/article.php?q=10021702-team-finds-subtropical-waters-flushing-through-greenland-fjord  may have an error also, studies i saw said the water *in contact with ocean* was melting, but the overland glaciers where getting thicker
11:59 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@2001:0:53aa:64c:3001:55a8:52c6:ef50] has left #hplusroadmap []
12:00 < katsmeow-afk> and somehow, 39F water doesn't sound subtropical, and they didn't present any data on how the water could be described as subtropical in any other way
12:07 < katsmeow-afk> "They found that annually about 4 kilograms (kg) were released from the sediment to the water and about 7 kg were transferred from the water to the air." <<== that's a neat trick!
12:12 < katsmeow-afk> " 'NW Rota-1 remains the only place on Earth where a deep submarine volcano has ever been directly observed while erupting.'" <<== wrong again, the active volcano east of Hawaii, the ot spot which produced the Hawaiian islands, has been watched as it pushed lava out
12:24 < kanzure> http://www.madewithmolecules.com/
12:26 < Utopiah> (Conference Berlin7 http://www.berlin7.org/ Open Access Conference)
12:27 < kanzure> weird ocean dwelling life forms: http://www2.yk.psu.edu/~mer7/Phil/fish.htm
12:31 < katsmeow-afk> About Msiusa 
12:31 < katsmeow-afk> Measurement Specialties, Inc., Designs, Develops, Produces, And Sells Electronic Sensors And Sensor-based Consumer Products. We Produce A Wide Variety Of Pressure, Force, Vibration, Flow, And Ultrasonic Sensors.  Advanced Aerospace, Micromaching, And...
12:31 < katsmeow-afk> but they have no website
12:33 < Utopiah> http://batchpcb.com/  PCB marketplace
12:33 < kanzure> re: RGS-14 and visual memory http://designfiles.org/papers/neuro/Role%20of%20Layer%206%20of%20V2%20Visual%20Cortex%20in%20Object-Recognition%20Memory.pdf
12:43 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.scsos.com/forms/Miscellaneous/SubversiveAgentForm.pdf  <<== the actual legal form for the law SC is considering repealing. "Those that fail to file face up to a $25,000 fine and 10 years in prison. "
12:43 < kanzure> heh
12:43 < katsmeow-afk> Until February, no one had registered, said Secretary of State Mark Hammond.
12:43 < katsmeow-afk> Now, about 10 have filed, apparently in jest, as political commentary. Two actually paid the fee, according to his office.
12:43 < katsmeow-afk> "Our organization is in fact so dastardly that we have refused to remit the fee," writes someone claiming to represent the Las Vegas-based Alliance of the Libertarian Left.
12:45 < katsmeow-afk> Qatar, Germany Set up Solar Power Joint Venture ; The companies will set up a plant in northern Qatar to produce 3,500 tons of polysilicon annually.
13:32 < Utopiah> The Department of Mad Scientists http://michaelbelfiore.com/darpa 2009
13:33 < kanzure> i was recently surprised when i casually mentioned DARPA to someone and they said "what's that?"
13:35 < katsmeow-afk> i was recently surprised when i noticed no one is using phone numbers like Klamath-5-1212 anymore
13:36 < katsmeow-afk> ask them if they ever heard of the "International Business Machines" company
13:37 < Utopiah> (no preview from Google Books thus no word cloud :/ )
13:38 < kanzure> Interview with Laura Cinti and Howard Boland (c-lab): http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/biotech_art/index.php?page=5 
13:48 < Utopiah> ( 2009 USC Body Computing Conference 3.0: Keynote Address by Daniel Kraft, M.D. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha2z6gv3WK8 )
13:49 < Utopiah> ( with http://www.usccardiology.org/bodycomputing/ )
13:50 < katsmeow-afk> so the tatoo on your arm of a calculator is an actual working calculator?
13:51 < katsmeow-afk> "that is not a pixel defect, that's a new mole on your skin"
13:51 < Utopiah> lol, the new "dead pixel" skin problem
13:52 < katsmeow-afk> gives new meaning to the phrase "i know that ____ like the back of my hand"
13:57 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM22 "The protein down-regulates transcription from the HIV-1 long terminal repeat promoter region, suggesting that function of this protein may be to mediate interferon's antiviral effects.[1][2] Other proteins that function to restrict HIV replication include TRIM5alpha and APOBEC3G."
13:58 < katsmeow-afk> to be cautious, grab the attribution source too
14:00 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@195.216.211.175] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
14:00 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@195.216.211.175] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:01 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: http://www.plospathogens.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.ppat.1000007
14:01 < kanzure> pdf: http://www.plospathogens.org/article/fetchObjectAttachment.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.ppat.1000007&representation=PDF
14:01 < kanzure> local copy: http://designfiles.org/papers/The%20Interferon%20Response%20Inhibits%20HIV%20Particle%20Production%20by%20Induction%20of%20TRIM22.pdf
14:03 < katsmeow-afk> Received July 19, 2007
14:04 < kanzure> Accepted January 16, 2008
14:04 < kanzure> hah
14:27 < kanzure> ooh, juicy links http://www.genetic-programming.org/
14:27 < kanzure> hm that's koza?
14:27 < kanzure> oh! that's why i know him http://www.genetic-programming.com/johnkoza.html
14:28 < kanzure> i was invited to speak at COFES 2010, which is apparently the conference he runs
14:28 < Utopiah> oh
14:29 < kanzure> "inventor of genetic programming" O_o
14:32  * katsmeow-afk patents beach sand so she can claim to have invented it and all processes associated with it
14:32 < kanzure> http://www.new4stroke.com/
14:33 < kanzure> heh: http://hubpages.com/hub/Stunningly-Intricate-Curta-Mechanical-Calculator
14:33 < katsmeow-afk> sliding valves again
14:35 < Utopiah> (self-organisation/synthetic life http://www.diffusion.ens.fr/index.php?res=conf&idconf=2763 by http://www.physics.nyu.edu/pine/ )
14:37 < kanzure> world's largest digging machine http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/Trencher.htm
14:38 < katsmeow-afk> i always wondered how that was economical
14:38 < kanzure> hehe: http://fun-hunter.com/Pics/Machinery/Machinery002.jpg
14:38 < kanzure> it probably is not
14:39 < katsmeow-afk> it would take forever to get between jobs, and scoop dirt faster than the custom railroads and trucks can haul it away
14:39 < kanzure> i bet it was built in place
14:40 < katsmeow-afk> prolly was, but then why hasn't it dug itself into a gigantic hole already?
14:40 < kanzure> wheels?
14:40 < kanzure> hrm.
14:42 < katsmeow-afk> "Automatic hydraulic systems used for eliminating valve clearance are relatively complex and expensive." LOL!! and they are piston-sleeve units 2 inches long max, 1/2 inch long, and $5 each!!
14:44 < kanzure> i wish i get my own FAQ some day :/ http://www.cjfearnley.com/fuller-faq.html
14:45 < kanzure> hey is this our marcin jakubowski? http://community.livejournal.com/retro_futurism/318284.html
14:45 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.new4stroke.com/ won't work , crud building up on the steps from the sliding valve pistons to the work piston will eventually break the gate pistons' connecting rods
14:49 < kanzure> hm
14:50 < parolang> So, is this channel where you guys keep your bookmarks? :D
14:53 -!- nchaimov_ [~cowtown@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:53 -!- nchaimov [~cowtown@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
14:53 -!- nchaimov_ is now known as nchaimov
14:54 < katsmeow-afk> the "complicated and expensive" hydraulic lifter in every detroit engine ever made, and many world wide : http://image.highperformancepontiac.com/f/10498756+w750+st0/hppp_0811_06_z+pontiac+hydraulic_lifter.jpg
14:54 < katsmeow-afk> dunno why they gold plated it
14:55 < katsmeow-afk> the Mazda 2.2 (and i assume other engines) has a 1/4 thick dodad directly under the rocker arm above the valve stem that does the same thing
14:58 < katsmeow-afk> basically, for over 3/4 of time, it passively or actively is filled with oil thru a small hole, which is then blocked when the internal piston is pushed over it, the amount of oil at any one time occupying the variable gap (due to maker tolerances, temperature, wear, etc) in the valve system
15:01 -!- kristianpaul [~kristianp@190.165.137.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
15:08 -!- kristianpaul [~kristianp@190.165.137.49] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:09 < kanzure> parolang: we're on a mission :)
15:09 < parolang> :)
16:28 < kanzure> http://scienceblogs.com/oscillator/2010/02/biology_is_technology.php review of "biology is technology"
16:37 -!- wrldpc2 [~benny@ool-44c566cb.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:43 < kanzure> http://vooluspa.blogspot.com/2010/03/case-off-open-solar-panel-controler-1.html
16:43 < kanzure> http://www.ohwr.org/ open hardware repository.. electronics-only
16:44 < kanzure> hm, odd place to find her showing up: http://diydrones.com/profile/ParijataMackey
17:14 < kanzure> http://nextfab.com/
17:17 < QuantumG> so
17:17 < QuantumG> I was looking at the laws in Australia in regards to the export of technical specifications for rockets
17:18 < QuantumG> there's a limit on size.. and I find that kinda funny as telling someone how to make a small rocket is much the same as telling them how to make an (inefficient) large rocket
17:18 < QuantumG> but, in any case, it got me thinking about a more general topic
17:19 < QuantumG> crypto isn't on the US export controls anymore (or at least not the same way), because the PGP guy just uncorked the bottle and let the genie out
17:20 < QuantumG> unfortunately at great personal risk
18:00 < kanzure> http://opensource.com/life/10/2/acceleration-open-source-cars /me is still waiting for people who are serious about "open source cars"
18:02 -!- hundred-ideas [~100ideas@dhcp-0000018522-23-6e.client.student.harvard.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:02 < kanzure> hey hundred-ideas 
18:02 < kanzure> sorry i haven't replied to your email yet :/
18:03 < hundred-ideas> hey, that's ok
18:03 -!- wonklab [~jeargle@angara.scs.uiuc.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:03 < kanzure> hello wonklab 
18:04 < wonklab> word up
18:04 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 38 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 38 normal]
18:04 < parolang> Sometimes just the URL pops out at you and makes you think, "Hey cool!" E.g. diydrones.com :D
18:04 < wonklab> Is everything copacetic in the Ellison lab?
18:04 < hundred-ideas> kanzure: What I propose may be completely in the domain of SKDB - if so, great.  I'm not well versed in the project
18:05 < kanzure> hundred-ideas: well, there are some parts that might seem like feature creep
18:05 < kanzure> i would be happy to work on the protocol project that you describe, because it does interface nicely with skdb
18:05 < kanzure> what i would really like to see happen is "here's a protocol, what equipment do i need"
18:05 < kanzure> "and how do i make that equipment"
18:06 < hundred-ideas> definitely
18:06 < kanzure> as for the synthetic biology aspect, there's other software that has started to (try to) cover automatic design of genomes
18:06 < kanzure> or at least, they are more poised for that sort of task (i.e. biopython, bioperl)
18:07 < kanzure> hundred-ideas: re this quote: "Also in the pipeline is a wiki-like frontend to SKDB with a git revision control back-end, which could be used as a free alternative to instructables or thingiverse, but better."
18:07 < kanzure> that kinda sorta already exists.. one sec, let me boot up the server
18:08 < kanzure> hundred-ideas: http://designfiles.org:8081/package/lego/
18:08 < kanzure> it definitely needs some work, but it's a git+wiki front-end to skdb packages
18:08 < hundred-ideas> My concern is primarily that make.ifixit.com has got some semantic representation of the process, tools, and materials of each project, and that their format will remain closed and non-standardized.  Since it's under development, there's a chance to get them to use something open designed to work well with our projects
18:09 < kanzure> how much of a chance
18:10 < kanzure> basically, this is pretty-damn-close to what i would like to see for an instruction language: http://cheetahtemplate.org/ 
18:10 < kanzure> cheetah is just a templating engine meant for the web
18:10 < kanzure> but you could use it in any number of ways to embed variables in plaintext and so on
18:10 < kanzure> so, users would just write out each step however they like, and if they want to go a little advanced, they can use the scripting features
18:11 < kanzure> i.e. "Hello, $name! Step 1. Pour $amount_goes_here into the beaker"
18:11 < kanzure> but also "Step 1. Something inflexible and static goes here."
18:12 < kanzure> it's a shame that biocoder/biostream sucks so much :(
18:13 < hundred-ideas> yeah, bleh
18:13 < kanzure> there's room to grow in that direction though
18:13 < kanzure> for now i think if we can pitch (1) simple templated-like-that instructions, (2) dependency representation ("what does this project require in order to be completed? what tools? what mateirals"), it will be a good start
18:13 < Utopiah> https://www.theopensourceway.org/wiki/How_to_tell_if_a_FLOSS_project_is_doomed_to_FAIL
18:13 < kanzure> "#  If the source code also exceeds 100 MB when it is compressed [ +5 points of FAIL ] " heh
18:15 < hundred-ideas> well, what is the single most important thing to add semantic markup to in a process description?  Bill of Materials? 
18:16 < kanzure> i think semantic markup is a buzzword and should be avoided
18:16 < kanzure> let's just be real
18:16 < kanzure> have you seen the skdb package examples? i was wondering what you think of the structures
18:16 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/packages/
18:16 < kanzure> i.e. see lego or screw
18:17 < QuantumG> Your project is sourceforge vaporware [ +100 points of FAIL ] 
18:17 < QuantumG> <3
18:17 < hundred-ideas> what should I be evaluating at the URL kanzure? demo.py?
18:18 < QuantumG> Your project only does releases as attachments in web forum posts [ +100 points of FAIL ]   also good
18:18 < kanzure> nah, metadata.yaml is most important
18:18 < kanzure> QuantumG: i haven't seen that in a while
18:19 < kanzure> hundred-ideas: another possible way to format the information is like so: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/process.tb
18:19 < kanzure> it would be easy to make a web interface ("wizard") that users could click through to generate those files (behind the scenes)
18:20 < kanzure> or if you wanted to see it over the web & be able to edit it: http://designfiles.org:8081/package/lego:master/metadata.yaml/65ff087e18045c951fbd360bc7a8e16cdfd1e25d
18:21 < kanzure> this is the raw view, mind you.. it would be possible to make a better interface that spiced up this info or something
18:22 < kanzure> fenn: did you note the [input] and [output] sections of the process.tb file? i like that.
18:22 < hundred-ideas> hah
18:26 < hundred-ideas> What about http://blog.reprap.org/2008/12/ponoko-lasercut-reprap-bom.html
18:27 < kanzure> you mean this? http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/PonokoBOMcode
18:28 < kanzure> doesn't look robust at all..
18:28 < kanzure> however, xml isn't inherently evil
18:30 < hundred-ideas> I'm not saying it's a good or robust implementation... but it's live.
18:30 < kanzure> where?
18:30 < hundred-ideas> http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/PonokoBOM ?
18:31 < hundred-ideas> too bad I can't click on each material to learn more about it and select the best source for it
18:31 < kanzure> doesn't look like it.. they are just wrapped in <pre> tags on that page
18:31 < kanzure> (check the html source)
18:31 < kanzure> same thing on the sub-assembly pages: http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/PonokoXAxisAssembly
18:31 < kanzure> more html crap :/
18:31 < kanzure> (surrounded by text (which is the stuff that actually matters))
18:33 < hundred-ideas> wait... are you saying that each material should be surrounded by a microformat, or just that you don't see evidence of dynamic generation of the list?
18:34 < kanzure> i don't see evidence of dynamic generation of the list
18:34 < kanzure> hey lookie! guido made it to boingboing http://www.boingboing.net/2010/03/02/inexpensive-gene-cop.html
18:36 < hundred-ideas> yeah, I don't see evidence of that either.  Yeah!  Have you guys donated?
18:36 < kanzure> donated? we were offering to design it instead of the $100k price tag that rob carlson put on it
18:36 < kanzure> but they scoffed at us
18:39 < hundred-ideas> Aww, you wanted to take over the whole project, and so now you won't donate to them.  Well, maybe they'll realize the error of their ways when they fail to get into this slightly-sketchy Unreasonable Marketplace and then they'll come ask for your help.
18:45 < kanzure> um?
18:45 < kanzure> no
18:45 < kanzure> i think that's an unreasonable summary of the situation
18:45 < kanzure> i just don't think that you should have to spend $100k for a really cheap design
18:47 < kanzure> also i'm kind of hurt that you would think that i wanted to take over his project :(
18:47 < kanzure> !logs
18:47 < hplusbot> kanzure: http://adl.serveftp.org/irclogs.txt
18:47 < kanzure> read the logs for yourself
18:49 < hundred-ideas> that's a pretty big log file, maybe I'll pass for now.  Was Rob's company taking $100k for the design contract?
18:50 < kanzure> tbh i don't know if it was his company or not
18:50 < kanzure> but it was rob
18:50 < kanzure> um, which company is that anyway?
18:50 < hundred-ideas> BioDesic
18:51 < hundred-ideas> his garage engineering company.
18:51 < hundred-ideas> What's keeping you from doing the design anyway? IP concerns?
18:51 < kanzure> well it's "their" project
18:52 < kanzure> btw why is rob always said to be into diybio? he never posts to the mailing list and has never introduced himself
18:52 < kanzure> there was a lot of really awesome discussion on the open thermocycler plans a while back (over 100 emails in a single thread) that went over a lot of great designs
18:53 < kanzure> and it's really weird to see joseph not interested in any of that O.o
18:55 < hundred-ideas> I've always thought that diybio was a self-identification.  you are into diybio if you are into diybio.  Joseph says he is.
18:56 < hundred-ideas> I think rob is more cynical, and a) doesn't see the point, and b) perceives an unknown risk from associating with our community
18:56 < hundred-ideas> although he has emailed the list once or twice
18:56 < kanzure> oops, i might have missed that once-or-twice email
19:00 < kanzure> hundred-ideas: btw, re: the email about the conference with edward you. i suspect this is him: http://www.fbi.gov/hq/nsb/wmd/images/hrtppe.jpg
19:04 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 38 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 38 normal]
19:04 < hundred-ideas> ?
19:04 < kanzure> he's the special agent from the FBI assigned to diybio
19:05 < hundred-ideas> I know who Ed You is, to a first approximation.  But what's up with the photo, why do you think it is ed you, and what is your point?
19:05 < kanzure> it's a joke
19:05 < kanzure> it's the only photo on the fbi website under the WMD division
19:05 < kanzure> which, apparently, is his employer
19:05 < kanzure> i thought the costume was cool :(
19:07 < hundred-ideas> that is a pretty redicilous page http://www.fbi.gov/hq/nsb/wmd/wmd_home.htm
19:07 < kanzure> agreed
19:08 < hundred-ideas> ridiculous*
19:12 < hundred-ideas> I think jason bobe has an interesting approach to safety discussions
19:12 < hundred-ideas> when engaging professional scholars, policymakers, and enforcement people
19:14 < kanzure> half the problem is getting your foot in their door
19:14 < hundred-ideas> at this point in history, we can't presume we have the answers. instead, what are the questions we should be engaging policy people with?
19:15 < kanzure> that's true, but there's a lot of good discussions that were had about security back in 2008 on diybio that i feel have been ignored
19:15 < kanzure> a lot of really neat techniques too, like downloadable immunity
19:22 < hundred-ideas> links?
19:23 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/b5c37a36e6197a7a/1adfeaf4338e3847?lnk=gst&q=security#1adfeaf4338e3847
19:23 < kanzure> that's one i remember
19:23 < kanzure> btw, typing out SHA1 strings *sucks*
19:23 < kanzure> i thought the last 7 was a 6 at first and was wondering why it wasn't working
19:24 < QuantumG> bit.ly ftw
19:24 < kanzure> Utopiah: do you have a link off the top of your head for why tinyurl et al. sucks?
19:24 < kanzure> and other url shortening services
19:26 < QuantumG> I wonder if there's a plugin for Firefox that makes hovering over a shortened link display the actual destination in the status bar (as it does for a non-shortened link)
19:26 < kanzure> yes ther eis
19:26 < kanzure> *yes there is
19:27 < kanzure> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/60152
19:27 < kanzure> oh, it doesn't do hovers
19:27 < kanzure> wtf
19:27 < hundred-ideas> thanks for the security link
19:29 < kanzure> there have been others that i am presently forgetting
19:29 < kanzure> aren't there a few links on the FAQ?
19:30 < QuantumG> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/8636
19:31 < QuantumG> not bad
19:32 < hundred-ideas> http://bit.ly/pages/tools
19:32 < hundred-ideas> ... https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/10297
19:36 < QuantumG> looks nicer
19:36 < QuantumG> (yours)
19:52 < wrldpc2> hey fenn, is there a link to your life tracking data viz on fennetic?
19:54 < wrldpc2> http://fennetic.net/sleep/
19:54 < wrldpc2> got it
19:54 < QuantumG> hmm.. are there flexible polymers that *expand* in response to voltage?
19:55 < kanzure> piezopolymers?
19:55 < kanzure> try PVDF
19:55 < kanzure> explanation: http://www.physics.montana.edu/eam/polymers/piezopoly.htm
19:55 < QuantumG> neat thanks
19:55 < kanzure> that will be $0.02 please
19:56 < QuantumG> was thinking about space activity suits
19:56 < QuantumG> and figured a "normally contracted" polymer would be preferable
19:57 < QuantumG> you'd apply the voltage to ease putting it on
20:02 < kanzure> "also den Cupcake CNC gibts bloß bei Makerbot Industries."
20:02 < kanzure> "Prinzipiell musst du das Paket beim Zoll abholen. Auf den Gerätewert,
20:02 < kanzure> beim normalen Kit 750 USD, werden 19% Mehrwertsteuer aufgeschlagen +
20:02 < kanzure> Zollsatz."
20:02  * kanzure needs to brush up on his german
20:02 < kanzure> paket beim?
20:03 < kanzure> aufgeschlagen is fun to pronounce too
20:04 < kanzure> http://kd85.com/
20:16 < hundred-ideas> hey fenn, what's your routine for entering life-tracking blurbs?
20:16 < hundred-ideas> kanzure, do you know?
20:20 < kanzure> he just types it in every few moments
20:21 < hundred-ideas> he's at a terminal that often?  wow.
20:22 < kanzure> he carries around a notepad when he's disconnected
20:23 < kanzure> but he has a wearable computer anyway
20:23 < kanzure> so it's always on him
20:23 -!- hundred-ideas [~100ideas@dhcp-0000018522-23-6e.client.student.harvard.edu] has quit [Quit: hundred-ideas]
20:24 < parolang> steve mann style wearable?
20:24 < kanzure> yes
20:24 < parolang> cool :)
20:27 < kanzure> martin called me to tell me that i shouldn't have crossposted his vern-bashing to the robot group mailing list
20:27 < kanzure> he went on about how uncool it was for me to do that
20:27 < kanzure> and then in the end didn't actually have anything for me to do about it
20:27 < kanzure> so.. yeah.
20:30 < QuantumG> was his vern-bashing public?
20:30 < QuantumG> (to start with?)
20:30 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/austin-hacker-space
20:31 < kanzure> (1) martin announced on the austin robot group mailing list that there would be a screening at the austin hacker space of avatar
20:31 < kanzure> (2) vern privately emails martin explaining that it might be a bad idea because martin/austin-hackerspace could be sued :(
20:31 < kanzure> (3) martin posts an inflammatory email to austin-hacker-space about vern
20:31 < kanzure> (4) i send martin's email to the robot group asking those guys "wtf?"
20:31 < QuantumG> ya
20:32 < kanzure> (5) some other people on austin-hacker-space start hating on vern
20:32 < QuantumG> so martin made public statements, and is getting upset that you treated them like public statements
20:32 < kanzure> yes
20:32 < kanzure> and he had to phone me about it
20:32 < QuantumG> hehe
20:32 < kanzure> and then he said "i am explicitly giving you permission to give my phone number to vern"
20:32 < kanzure> "uh, alright?"
20:32 < QuantumG> I've had worse
20:32 < QuantumG> crazies posting on arocket
20:32 < kanzure> hey, i *am* one of those crazies posting to arocket :)
20:33 < kanzure> or at least that's who i am to carmack :)
20:33 < QuantumG> someone replies to the crazies and tells them to kindly fuck off
20:33 < QuantumG> I reply to him privately and explain why it's funny and how he should enjoy the nutjobs for what they are
20:33 < QuantumG> he replies TO THE LIST and quotes me...
20:33 < kanzure> lovely
20:34 < QuantumG> and no, these weren't you kind of crazy
20:34 < kanzure> is there worse?
20:34 < kanzure> am i being out done? :(
20:34 < QuantumG> these were "I call fraud on Interorbital Systems without any evidence at all"
20:35 < QuantumG> Interorbital Systems guy responding with threats of lawsuits
20:35 < kanzure> hahah
20:35 < QuantumG> I mean, who can't see the funny in that
20:36 < kanzure> my new goal in life is to randomly call people who post their phone numbers on the internet, and make up shit to be angry about and call them during random hours of the night about
20:36 < kanzure> "what, what? why are you calling? DMCA? FBI? holy shit! yes sir, right away sir"
20:40 < QuantumG> so Steve Mann called you eh
20:40 < kanzure> huh? no
20:40 < QuantumG> oh, martin.. I have no idea who that is
20:41 < QuantumG> some wanna-be steve mann?
20:41 < kanzure> http://austinhackerspace.org/
20:41 < kanzure> nothing related to steve mann
20:41 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:42 < QuantumG> oh, fenn's the wanna-be steve mann.. gotcha
20:42 < kanzure> context, yo. it's important
20:42 < QuantumG> sure is
20:42 < klafka> added to autojoin
20:42 < QuantumG> I didn't know fenn had gotten his wearable wearable
20:42 < kanzure> it's not
20:43 < kanzure> but he emulates it with pen-and-paper mode
20:51 < QuantumG> so, still thinking about this space activity suit
20:53 < QuantumG> a normally lose system probably would mean you could get "one size fits all" 
20:53 < QuantumG> as in, you put it on and it's lose, then apply constant voltage and it contracts to supply the required pressure
21:05 -!- dequeued [~dequeued@cpe-66-65-125-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:06 < kanzure> hello dequeued 
21:07 < kanzure> what brings you to diybio?
21:17 < dequeued> someone mentioned it in #alphaonelabs
21:17 < dequeued> so, meh, idling here
21:18 < kanzure> oh, that was mac 
21:36 < kanzure> http://www.g-language.org/g3/ zoomable user interface for molecular biology
21:37 < kanzure> heh it uses google maps
21:59 < kanzure> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/BankIt/
22:07 < kanzure> dequeued: http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F
22:09 < klafka> http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2010/02/area_responsible_for.html
22:10 < kanzure> haha
22:10 < kanzure> also, paperlinks are better than random news article links
22:10 < klafka> i thought it was funny
22:10 < klafka> :P
22:10 < dequeued> interesting
22:10 < klafka> and relevant
22:10 < kanzure> it is funny :)
22:10 < kanzure> highly relevant
22:37 < kanzure> YES http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/02/triceracopter.html triceracopter
22:41 < ybit> anyone aware of stats showing the # of engineers and scientists retired, working, or training?
22:41 < ybit> ..in the u.s.
22:43 < kanzure> http://bls.gov/ have fun
22:43 < kanzure> also http://dol.gov/ but i think it has less data
22:54 < ybit> thanks kanzure 
22:54 < ybit> there's also http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/srvygrads/ http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/srvyrecentgrads/  and http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/srvydoctoratework/
22:55 < dequeued> u
23:23 -!- JayDugger [~AndChat@35.sub-97-25-123.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:23 < JayDugger> Hello, all.
23:23 < kanzure> hey JayDugger 
23:31 -!- JayDugger [~AndChat@35.sub-97-25-123.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Bye]
23:31 -!- JayDugger [~AndChat@35.sub-97-25-123.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:35 < kanzure> is there an "argument by exhaustion" where someone just tries to talk to you until you admit that they are right?
23:35 < kanzure> that's what i feel like the internet is trying to do to me :/
23:40 -!- JayDugger [~AndChat@35.sub-97-25-123.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Bye]
23:41 -!- JayDugger [~AndChat@35.sub-97-25-123.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:41 -!- JayDugger [~AndChat@35.sub-97-25-123.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit]
23:41 -!- JayDugger [~AndChat@35.sub-97-25-123.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:43 < QuantumG> http://www.willowgarage.com/pages/robots/texas/overview
23:44 < QuantumG> Bob_Richards: Scott Hassen used a WillowGarage virtual presence robot to attend #SingularityU lectures today http://twitpic.com/16bxmn
23:44 -!- bkero is now known as bkero-legacy
23:46 -!- bkero-ZNC is now known as bkero
23:46 -!- bkero [~freenode@s69-163-39-14.in-addr.arpa.static.dsn1.net] has quit [Changing host]
23:46 -!- bkero [~freenode@osuosl/staff/bkero] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:51 -!- JayDugger [~AndChat@35.sub-97-25-123.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Bye]
23:52 -!- JayDugger [~AndChat@35.sub-97-25-123.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap