--- Day changed Fri Mar 12 2010
00:01 < kanzure> http://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/wiki/ConfigurationDirectives#WSGIDaemonProcess
00:01 < kanzure> "    Note that this option is ignored if Apache wasn't started as the root user, in which case no matter what the settings, the daemon processes will be run as the user that Apache was started as." lovely
00:01 < kanzure> something just irks me about running apache as root
00:04 < kanzure> http://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/wiki/ReloadingSourceCode
00:05 < jrayhawk> The apache parent process only parses configuration, logs, and brokers connections to children, who run as another user.
00:05 < jrayhawk> Well, usually, anyway.
00:05 < kanzure> i got a server from a previous dev team for a startup i've been conscripted into, and for some stupid reason they always ran apache as root
00:05 < kanzure> this caused all the log file sto be root-only
00:06 < kanzure> what is that, chmod 600?
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00:06 < jrayhawk> Running apache as root is neither particularly dangerous nor particularly uncommon.
00:06 < jrayhawk> What matters is the owners of the child processes.
00:06 < jrayhawk> s/owners/owner
00:07 < kanzure> for some reason i thought that apache2 by default runs as www-data when you install it (i.e. by apt-get and use the usual dpkg-reconfigure settings)
00:07 < jrayhawk> nope
00:07 < jrayhawk> root      5716  0.0  0.1  17108  6776 ?        Ss   Jan27   1:02 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
00:07 < jrayhawk> www-data 17504  0.0  0.9  58396 37640 ?        S    05:11   0:02  \_ /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
00:07 < jrayhawk> www-data  7607  0.0  0.9  58400 37072 ?        S    12:42   0:01  \_ /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
00:10 < jrayhawk> Usually trac is run with http auth digest or basic as managed by Apache
00:10 < jrayhawk> which then passes that information onto running CGIs
00:12 < jrayhawk> I think you can shim a client-certificate-to-auth-user translation of some sort in there, too, if you're crazy.
00:54 < kanzure> http://blog.gitorious.org/2009/05/09/weve-made-a-few-changes/ they want you to do: git push git@gitorious.org:~~johan/fish-nuggets/johans-clone.git
00:54 < kanzure> with the double ~~
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01:52 < kanzure> sometimes i wonder if joe is just making up computer names and randomly assigns them as a subdomain to omgwallhack.org
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02:01 < kanzure> jrayhawk: while you were gone i was postulating a theory that you randomly generate subdomains for omgwallhack.org because every time i talk with you i learn a new server name, or you log in with a different server, etc.
02:01 < jrayhawk> jblake has a list in ~/MACHINES, usually
02:10 < jrayhawk> i guess that list isn't exhaustive; i use a bunch of blackadder-related names for systems, too, and occasionally i name vservers after their actual application
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03:57 < fenn> i wonder why johhn schloendorn is all paranoid about there being pics of his lab getting out if they're already all over the net
04:02 < QuantumG> http://www.willowgarage.com/blog/2010/02/01/lots-texas-robots   <- did anyone reply when I posted this?
04:03 < QuantumG> pretty cool I though
04:03 < QuantumG> t
04:23 < fenn> damn i just lost two days of data.. bad crash wiped out my lifelog file somehow and no way to recover (i tried undel, looking around for .save files)
04:23 < QuantumG> fun
04:24 < QuantumG> I had a work win64 machine that deleted all of c:\cygwin\home the other day 
04:24 < QuantumG> along with some of c:\cygwin\etc
04:24 < QuantumG> nfi why or how
04:24 < fenn> i thought this was supposed to be impossible with ext3 (but i appear to be using ext4 whatever that means)
04:25 < QuantumG> yeah, you should have journaling, it shouldn't be possible
04:25 < QuantumG> but hey, maybe its an app error
04:25 < fenn> ok so why do i have a 4k file
04:26 < fenn> i wasnt doing anything with nano at the time of the crash
04:26 < QuantumG> no idea
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06:18 < fenn> today i randomly recognized someone in a subway station for the first time
06:18 < fenn> it was aubrey degrey
06:18 < QuantumG> someone you'd never met before?
06:18 < fenn> no i've met him
06:19 < fenn> anyway i thought it was funny
06:20 < QuantumG> ahh.. I was catching a bus from San Francisco to LA back in 2001.. this guy in a military uniform comes up to me and says "hey, are you QuantumG?"
06:20 < QuantumG> took me a few minutes to answer...
06:21 < QuantumG> he continues to tell me that he's some hacker recruit heading to Fort Meade and had read some of my security articles.. seen my face on the net.
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08:35 < JayDugger> eh?
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08:52 < JayDugger> So many departures...
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10:39 < kanzure> fenn: time to get out a magnifying glass and look at the hard drive directly
10:39 < kanzure> have you tried fscking it?
10:40 < kanzure> sox21 responsible for hair loss?
10:45 < kanzure> synthetic biology / pharma conference: http://www.www.avakado.eu/dev/Biofine/Synbio/Conference?gclid=CJqWjfHTs6ACFSpiswodhXspTA
10:46 < kanzure> makerbot filament backpack http://charlespax.com/2010/03/12/filament-back-pack/
10:47 < kanzure> http://blog.reprap.org/2010/03/bowden-paste-extruder.html
10:47 < kanzure> stalk: Philip Steffan
10:48 < kanzure> does this url make anyone else lose their eyes in an eye rolling accident? http://tweetmeme.com/story/677598040/miniseries-unsung-heros-of-the-3d-printing-revolution-part-i-makerbot-industries
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11:13 < kristianpaul> kanzure: is not bad idea have a jpg preview of skdb design files (if notis already made)
11:20 < genehacker> kanzure want to go bother bre pettis, he's going to dorkbot
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11:35 < kanzure> to be honest i'd rather not go near him, i might punch him
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12:22 < genehacker> I figured as much
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12:38 < kanzure> i wonder if WSGIDaemonProcess directives work in .htaccess
12:38 < kanzure> http://codespatter.com/2009/07/08/python-projects-in-users-home-directories-with-wsgi/
12:43 < kanzure> jrayhawk: well, here's some on django + mod_wsgi: http://www.davidcramer.net/code/django/108/setup-mod_wsgi-for-django-and-shared-hosting.html which came up as a random result in an unrelated search
12:44 < kanzure> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2078160/static-file-with-mod-wsgi-in-django
13:03 < jrayhawk> I'll probably just set up Tornado and use this as an excuse to play with nginx.
13:06 < kanzure> so, this is interesting
13:06 < kanzure> http://broadband.gov/ just a simple FCC "tell us how much your ISP sucks" site
13:06 < kanzure> down to the street address level
13:07 < kanzure> what's interesting is that brighthouse and some other ISPs are already selectively routing data to artificially inflate the numbers
13:10 < kanzure> i.e. 5 hops on brighthouse instead of the average 15 to 30 hops to get anywhere when you look at the traceroute
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14:07 < kanzure> maybe i over-did the import today? http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt
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15:04 < kanzure> behold! http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/tags.html
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15:39  * kanzure makes it a point to go to the ycombinator sxsw event on the 15th
15:40 < Utopiah> #startups is mainly a ycombinator crowd btw
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15:49 < kanzure> hey hundred-ideas 
15:49 < hundred-ideas> Hey
15:49 < kanzure> hundred-ideas: i wasted some time today and did a tag cloud of stuff that people talk with me about: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/tags.html
15:50 < hundred-ideas> from email or irc?
15:50 < kanzure> everywhere
15:50 < kanzure> in person, internet, phone
15:52 < hundred-ideas> you have annotated recordings of your voice conversation?
15:52 < hundred-ideas> transcriptions, rather?
15:52 < kanzure> no, i just remember what i talked about and write it down
15:53 < kanzure> the tag cloud is generated from this data: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt
15:53 < hundred-ideas> right
15:53 < hundred-ideas> Thecommonsjournal.org?
15:53 < hundred-ideas> who do you talk with about that?
15:54 < kanzure> i should fix this. this tag cloud is from (1) internet, (2) phone, (3) in person, and (4) people that i have learned about
15:54 < kanzure> thecommonsjournal.org is squarely in #4
15:54 < kanzure> i wrote down the names of everyone who published in that latest issue that i really liked
15:54 < hundred-ideas> well, it's still neat.
15:54 < hundred-ideas> oh hey, have you heard about SKDB?
15:55 < kanzure> are you trying to screw up my tag cloud :P
15:55 < kanzure> oh much better, i got rid of everything from the "knowledge" category
15:55 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/tags.html
15:56 < hundred-ideas> SKDB is supposed to be launching ANY day now
15:56 < hundred-ideas> Sooo much hype, though...
15:56 < hundred-ideas> http://www.steorn.com/skdb/
15:56 < kanzure> yes the skdb name sucks
15:57 < kanzure> ybit: no i will not change it to "fabhow" gah
15:57 < hundred-ideas> haha it's just funny that of all things, the Orbo guys are using it
15:58 < kanzure> ooh the page looks even better now
16:03 < kanzure> what would be really cool is showing it change shape over time :)
16:03 < kanzure> have different tags "die off" as i talk about them less
16:11 < hundred-ideas> I'm going to read over some of the latest articles in the commons journal.  microbial commons?  cool
16:11 < hundred-ideas> also, what's up with the houston diybio folks / diybio incubator?
16:11 < kanzure> i fwd'd an email to diybio about thecommonsjournal.org 
16:11 < kanzure> hundred-ideas: basically jacob (diybio-houston) wants to do gnusha with us
16:12 < kanzure> he has a little money (less than me though) that he has been throwing at marketing and images
16:12 < kanzure> and presumably i'll get the skdb infrastructure up and running enough
16:12 < kanzure> yesterday he purchased http://opensciencefund.org/
16:12 < kanzure> basically it's kickstarter+thingiverse+diybio or something
16:13 < hundred-ideas> that's the impression I got
16:13 < hundred-ideas> cool
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16:14 < hundred-ideas> well, I don't understand the precise goal, but I like the idea
16:14 < kanzure> the plan for gnusha is to channel money into diybio/open hardware kits
16:17 < hundred-ideas> what makes a kit open?
16:17 < hundred-ideas> is there a standard
16:17 < kanzure> yes there is
16:17 < kanzure> sadly most people just say "it's open!" and then you discover, it's not
16:17 < kanzure> and they just uploaded a jpeg or something
16:18 < kanzure> here is the open source definition: http://opensource.org/
16:18 < kanzure> oh i guess it's here: http://opensource.org/docs/osd
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16:19 < hundred-ideas> and there are no special caveats for hardware / kits?  we should just use something compatible with the osd principles? 
16:20 < kanzure> we should *definitely* use the OSD principles *regardless* but yes there are additional criteria that would be super-helpful with open source hardware and kits
16:20 < hundred-ideas> examples?
16:21 < hundred-ideas> are there any "open-source" kits that exist already that you find acceptable?
16:21 < kanzure> reprap and makerbot have had a lot of love poured into them
16:22 < kanzure> i think there's also some ladayada kits that might qualify? but usually she publishes proprietary file formats for designs, which is really annoying and useless (from an open source point of view)
16:22 < kanzure> *ladyada
16:23 < kanzure> so for that "additional criteria" that i mentioned- there's things like CAD files (the source to the 3D objects), schematics, blueprints
16:23 < kanzure> each of these have some vague analogies to "source code" that you could probably come up with
16:23 < hundred-ideas> practically speaking, what do we want to enable with our open-source-hardware standard?
16:25 < kanzure> the "open source" part is for things like re-use, the ability to develop improvements and distribute it, redistribution licensing, etc.
16:26 < kanzure> packaging allows you to redistribute and install the kits (whether just in terms of metadata or the *real things*) 
16:26 < hundred-ideas> right
16:27 < kanzure> and with the open source hardware standard already developed (1) you get to redistribute and all the benefits and arguments of open source; (2) computers and designers get the data that they *need* to have included in the kit/package to make use out of it
16:28 < kanzure> one of the sadest things out there is all the "open source" car projects
16:28 < kanzure> and all of them just have pictures of cars or something, and that's it
16:28 < kanzure> "look! see? it's a car!"
16:29 < hundred-ideas> design files to enable others to build, improve, distribute, and sell the design and the device
16:29 < hundred-ideas> let's take the gel box as an example
16:29 < hundred-ideas> what's missing?
16:32 < kanzure> er what do you mean "the gel box"? are you talking about a specific one?
16:32 < hundred-ideas> yes, tito's $200 "open source" gel box
16:32 < kanzure> well, it's completely done in sketchup, which isn't an open source standard
16:32 < kanzure> it's also not under revision control thus not allowing collaborative development
16:33 < kanzure> in skdb, hardware is thrown into .git repositories so that anyone can push/pull changes, merge them in or do whatever they want
16:33 < kanzure> also, i'm concerned about its license (CC) but that's not a big deal (i.e. other people in here think CC is ok for hardware (so it's entirely possible i'm just inflating that particular issue))
16:34 < hundred-ideas> is that all?
16:34 < kanzure> just off the top of my head
16:34 < kanzure> why does he call it "open source"?
16:35 < kanzure> open source is a development model.. not a business model. blah i just don't see development going on in tito's head :/
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16:36 < hundred-ideas> probably because there are no canonical "open-source" hardware projects that have done a good job publicly demonstrating what the elements of an open-source approach should be
16:37 < kanzure> yeah i guess even reprap sucks from that point of view, although it's light-years ahead of pretty much everything else
16:37 < kanzure> (in terms of understanding open source hardware)
16:38 < kanzure> bar none, reprap is definitely the largest example of an open source hardware project
16:38 < kanzure> they do get things wrong from time to time, but heck at least they have an svn repository and something resembling a project
16:38 < hundred-ideas> so it seems like there are a couple of key factors you described:  1) access to all critical design files 2) revisioning of these files and developer/designer culture that understands and uses source control 3) a perpetual license to resuse, modify, distribute, and sell the designs and the object they specify
16:41 < kanzure> well also for #1 is the issue of choosing file formats that facilitate #2- i.e., giving .sketchup models isn't really all that good if the only tool for modifying those files is sketchup itself..
16:41 < hundred-ideas> is c an open-source language?  I guess it is, because of gcc
16:41 < kanzure> i guess i'm thinking in terms of the licenses of the toolchain: it's really useless if it costs $10k to buy solidworks to modify your .sldprt file that you made "open source"
16:42 < kanzure> brb phone
16:43 < hundred-ideas> me too
16:44 < jrayhawk> 'open development' is probably a better term than 'open source' in the contexts you guys are using.
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16:59 < kanzure> jrayhawk: how about "OSI-compliant"
16:59 < kanzure> er maybe i meant OSD-compliant
17:00 < kanzure> heck even GPL would be a good start
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17:28 < kanzure> list of makerbot employees: Bre, Adam, Zach, Sam, Marisol, Isaac, Ian, and Widget
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18:14 < kanzure> heh i just got a list in my inbox of the world's oldest living people
18:14 < kanzure> i feel compelled to make a list of current child-bearing-age womenly descendents of these people
18:14 < kanzure> for 100+ people over 110, that makes for, what, at least 500 children (who are already "pretty old" themselves)
18:49 < fenn> i dont get why you dont like heinlein
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18:50 < fenn> i managed to do a decent reconstruction of the last two days from receipts, shell and browser history, and stuff i had written down :\
18:51 < kanzure> fenn: my dad liked it a lot, and it's standard rules for young kids to pretend to hate what their parents like
18:51 < kanzure> s/it/heinlein/
18:51 < fenn> i guess i'll be backing up daily from now on
18:52 < fenn> annoyingly though i didnt remember what time i took melatonin
18:52 -!- kimyu [~5808ba62@gateway/web/freenode/x-ddohzrkxgklwdein] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:52 < kanzure> hello kimyu 
18:52 < kimyu> hello
18:52 < kanzure> there was a spanish article about diybio a while back: http://www.publico.es/ciencias/184626/biohackers/reventar/reinventar/biologia/garajes
18:55 < kimyu> thank you very much kanzure
19:02 < fenn> re: tag clouds, apparently you can do animation with css? http://www.webdesignerwall.com/trends/47-amazing-css3-animation-demos/
19:10 < fenn> something like this would be really cool for skdb part previews: http://www.romancortes.com/blog/css-paper-bird/
19:11 < fenn> also if anyone cares i've been talking with people from fundscience.org.. maybe jacob could cooperate with them?
19:28 < kanzure> i thought we were the people's front of judiah!
19:42 < fenn> i forget if someone said it already, but you could weight tags by logarithmically decreasing their size over time
19:42 < fenn> or perhaps some variant of the supermemo algorithm
19:43 < fenn> "these are thing bryan actually remembers"
19:44 < fenn> hmm i should do that with my lifelog data
19:44 < fenn> yay for having data!
19:47 < fenn> "ben, you havent read about brlcad in a year, reconnect with hir!"
19:55 < any49828803> gee, i haven't seen "hir" in 25 yrs
20:01 < any49828803> er,, deja vu, i think i said that in here already
20:09 < kimyu> see you tomorrow
20:10 < kimyu> bye
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20:14 < fenn> in this context "vim" would have been confusing
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20:17 < fenn> word of the day: "periphrastic"
20:27 < fenn> oh "vim" would have been wrong anyway, it's actually "ver"
20:27  * fenn makes a note to use singular "they" in the future
21:17 < kanzure> what happed to vir and ir?
21:18 < kanzure> or whatever the gender-neutral terms were that were floating around the orionsarm.com community?
21:20 < fenn> there seems to be a distinction between gender-ambiguous and non-gendered pronouns
21:20 < fenn> "they" is ambiguous but "ve" is non-gendered
21:21 < fenn> ve/vis/ver is egan's thing, probably what was used on orionsarm
21:26 < kanzure> but yes i want to do something like the slidey-go-go charts on blog.okcupid.com
21:26 < kanzure> except a slide-with-respect-to-time for a tag cloud
21:27 < kanzure> and show different terms growing relatively larger/smaller with respect to time based off of some exponental decay or half-life coefficient
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21:47 < kanzure> anyone want a shanghai java gig?
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22:08 < fenn> hyberbolic discounting *mumble mumble*
22:08 < fenn> i wish there were an openAL for IRC
22:08 < fenn> so related channels would sort of leak in weakly
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23:02 < kanzure> more pubhubblahblahblha http://status.net/wiki/OStatus which i somehow stumbled into from the gitorious main page
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23:11 < timschmidt> .join #reprap-m
23:11 < kanzure> bwahah
23:11 < timschmidt> yeah
23:11 < timschmidt> mistype
23:11 < timschmidt> :/
23:12 < timschmidt> damn new keyboards
23:12 < kanzure> you need to "break them"
23:13 < timschmidt> meh.  I just need to find some more Model Ms
23:13 < kanzure> i know someone with a closet full of 'em
23:13 < kanzure> want one?
23:13 < timschmidt> I'll take ten
23:13 < kanzure> ha, no
23:13 < kanzure> 1 per customer :)
23:13 < timschmidt> yes, though.  I'd never turn one down.
23:14 < kanzure> i'll ping him (it will take a day to get back on it since he's on the wrong side of the planet)
23:14 < timschmidt> All good computer equipment was built in 1985
23:15 < timschmidt> I put a massive amount of work into my RepRap tonight
23:16 < timschmidt> BTW, if you're thinking of shipping that keyboard to me, my address has changed, I can email you the new one
23:16 < kanzure> ah
23:16 < kanzure> yeah wouldn't want to mis-ship one of these
23:17 < timschmidt> I'm preparing to build my next machine...  with a 14x22" build area
23:21 < timschmidt> address sent
23:31 < kanzure> diybio-budapest http://biopunk.hu/2010/03/12/sf-meetup/
23:32 < kanzure> "the street finds its own uses for things"
23:35 < kanzure> stalk: Endre Sebestyén
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23:52 < fenn> pubsubhubbub/ostatus looks pretty cool