--- Day changed Mon Mar 29 2010 00:05 -!- marainein [~marainein@220.253-203-157.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:06 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk 00:08 < kanzure> fenn: i consumed oxymorons? 00:22 < fenn> who is 23b and why do they have so many guns and hot chicks? 00:23 < fenn> also "arclight" sounds real familiar 00:24 < kanzure> john arclight, he runs "arclight" (the hackerspace thingy) 00:24 < kanzure> it might be because of 'arcattack' which is unrelated 00:24 < fenn> no, i think he was in here at some point 00:24 < kanzure> hm 00:25 < kanzure> also, bill gates is definitely like a character out of an ayn rand book 00:25 < kanzure> eric hit that nail on the head 00:25 < fenn> i never read any ayn rand 00:25 < kanzure> http://galtse.cx/ 00:26 < fenn> i plan to keep i that way, thanks 00:26 < kanzure> damn you jrayhawk! 00:28 < fenn> hm we have some new lurkers 00:28 < fenn> anelma, clemux, hoboasa, quantumkat, thebwt: where did you come from? 00:30 < nsh> i found them under a bus-shelter, drinking moonshine, and brought them in for some soup 00:30 < fenn> you damn bums, next time bring your own soup 00:32 < quantumkat> fenn: I met kanzure online, and he told me to come. And then I stayed. d: 00:33 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-39-74.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:34 < quantumkat> (Stayed for the soup, I mean.) 00:36 < fenn> so, uh, what's up? 00:36 * fenn pokes at the floor with his toe 00:37 < fenn> god i can't interact with humans 00:37 < fenn> request initiation of data dump 00:38 < quantumkat> Hah, well, it's not an easy task. 00:38 < quantumkat> REQUEST DENIED. 00:38 < quantumkat> Are you root? 00:38 < fenn> sudo make me some soup, bitch 00:38 < fenn> (that was "like bash" btw) 00:38 < quantumkat> Okay. 00:41 < fenn> www.staringispolite.com/likepython/ 00:42 < quantumkat> Ooh, yeah. I've seen like python before, but I didn't automatically make the connection. 00:42 < quantumkat> Nice. 00:42 < fenn> thanks for the tact assist, kanzure 00:43 * fenn wonders how to conjugate "tact" 00:43 < fenn> decline? is that a verb? 00:43 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-39-74.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:44 < fenn> declense? 00:44 < quantumkat> I was about to say, you can't conjugate tact. 00:44 < quantumkat> So auto win. 00:44 < fenn> what is the process of making an adjective out of a noun called? 00:45 < quantumkat> Don't know off the top of my head. 00:45 < quantumkat> tactful is an adj, though 00:46 < fenn> tactful isn't what i meant though 00:46 < quantumkat> tact-related? d: 00:47 < fenn> 192 pages in category "Linguistics" 00:47 < fenn> sorry, 485 00:48 < quantumkat> Read them all. 00:48 < Utopiah> so quantumkat, what are you interested in? working on any specific project related to this chan? 00:48 < fenn> see, that was a tactful assist 00:49 < fenn> what kanzure did was assist me with matters of tact 00:50 < fenn> "Speechome is different from common biological -omes such as genome, proteome, and expressome in that it is not biological." I beg to differ! 00:51 < fenn> until someone can show me a talking computer 00:51 < quantumkat> I'm not working on any projects, I'm just following things that Bryan is doing. I'm interested in neuroscience, hardware, physics, AI, math, programming, etc. I'm trying to go to school for neuroscience. However, I'm not significantly knowledgeable about any of those subjects, yet. 00:52 < fenn> i was thinking the other day it would be neat to have something running constantly that just tried to imitate sounds coming in through the microphone 00:52 < fenn> based on puredata or some lightweight realtime system, and genetic algorithm or evolved neural net or something 00:53 < fenn> quantumkat: did you base your nick on any of the current members of this channel? 00:53 < fenn> 'cause you know, now i can't say "kat" or "quantum" unambiguously 00:54 < fenn> i guess it makes more sense than either of their names though 00:54 < quantumkat> I didn't. I've had variations of this handle for a while. It is kind of funny that it's a combination of two other people in here. d: 00:55 < quantumkat> Yeah, I think that means my name is superior, technically speaking. 00:55 < fenn> quantumkat is not afk 00:58 < quantumkat> Oh, what? Sorry, I was afk. 00:58 < fenn> i wasnt observing 00:59 < quantumkat> I was just kidding. 00:59 < fenn> somehow i doubt i'm going to be on an 8 am train for the start of the thorium conference tomorrow 01:00 < fenn> do robots need train tickets? 01:00 < fenn> would i get arrested for trying to blow up caltrain if i sent a telerobot on it? 01:00 < nsh> thorium conference? 01:01 < quantumkat> Depending on how well it was programmed, maybe you could convince them to arrest the robot. 01:01 < nsh> at Mountainview? 01:01 < fenn> nsh: http://www.thoriumenergyalliance.com/ThoriumSite/Spring2010Conf.htm 01:02 < fenn> ideally nobody would get arrested 01:02 < fenn> the robot was just doing its job 01:02 < fenn> though apparently caltrain conductors can't be trusted to do the sensible thing 01:03 < fenn> this is all hypothetical anyway.. i dont have a telerobot 01:03 * fenn looks around the room accusingly 01:03 < nsh> i'm not sure i could maintain interest in thorium reactors for a whole two-day conference 01:03 < fenn> me either 01:03 < nsh> unless there was porn interspersed in the slides 01:03 < fenn> i want to see sorensen's talk though 01:03 < nsh> aye, it'll go online, but i love to ask questions 01:04 < fenn> it's sort of sad that NOBODY knows much about this technology 01:04 < nsh> i wonder if we'll get a livecasted conference talks with internet-voted questions anytime soon 01:04 < fenn> voted? 01:04 < nsh> well 01:04 < nsh> moderated 01:04 < nsh> otherwise it'd be a mess 01:04 < fenn> who moderates? 01:05 < nsh> me and my business associates from the coca-cola corporation 01:05 < fenn> slashdot model might work 01:05 * nsh nods 01:06 < fenn> do you think i could make a living off being a "mobile human-based observation platform" covered with webcams and microphones and wifi gear? 01:06 < nsh> might work as long as you're constantly somewhere interesting 01:07 < nsh> if you had some kind of personal teleportation device... 01:07 < quantumkat> That reminds me of Snow Crash. 01:07 < fenn> see that's sort of the point 01:07 < fenn> i get to always be somewhere interesting 01:07 < nsh> good gig 01:07 < fenn> though realistically it'll be lame business conferences i think 01:07 < nsh> gonzo technologism 01:07 < fenn> is that some kind of new fetish? 01:08 < nsh> no doubt 01:08 < fenn> 'An adult genre where the performers acknowledge the presence of the camera or there is the use of a "talking camera"' 01:08 < fenn> yeah i'm thinking something sort of like "strange days" 01:09 < fenn> but for people to bother watching it i'd have to be taking PCP constantly 01:09 < nsh> you take lots of hallucinogenic drugs and attend conferences reporting into your comms exoskeleton 01:09 < nsh> aye 01:09 < fenn> or be a celebrity 01:09 < fenn> i'm not sure if "that guy with all the cameras on his head" counts 01:10 < fenn> maybe DHEA/testosterone supplements could work instead of PCP 01:10 < nsh> you could concoct some kind of affect-masque algorithm that overlays your reporting with the mannerisms of various celebrities 01:10 < fenn> kanzure: cook me up a novel behavior generating substance sometime in the next 6 months plz 01:11 < nsh> kanzure, the techno-Ramirez 01:12 < nsh> this looks good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Masque_of_the_Red_Death 01:13 < fenn> are there any functional streaming video torrent protocols yet? (bitlet?) 01:13 < nsh> not that i'm aware of 01:14 < nsh> having to get the bits in the right order mitigates a lot of the advantages of the torrent protocol 01:15 < fenn> having a progressive delay the further from the source you are would fix that 01:16 < nsh> hmm 01:16 < fenn> tier 1 leeches get instant response, tier 2 delay by 5 seconds, tier 3 20 seconds, etc 01:16 < nsh> interesting 01:16 < fenn> tiers determined by available bandwidth 01:16 < fenn> wrt source 01:16 * nsh nods 01:16 < nsh> hmm 01:16 < fenn> there's gotta be some academic paper on this already 01:17 < nsh> i wonder if 01:17 < nsh> could you come up with a kind of bifurcating token-ring protocol that runs over IP 01:18 < Utopiah> fenn: functional yes, used, not that I know of, EZTV did that for a while but it seems it didn't catch up, http://trial.p2p-next.org/ neither 01:18 * fenn mumbles something about an iphone app 01:18 < fenn> this really needs wimax tho 01:18 < nsh> so a machine gets some packets, decodes and does whatever with the content, then passes on to a router that splits into two streams, based on proximal waiting users 01:19 < Utopiah> http://urfastr.net tried too 01:20 < nsh> or 01:20 < nsh> maybe the opposite of a multicast 01:20 < fenn> multicast should work 01:21 < nsh> an address that many can send packets to, which reassemble and are accessible as one stream 01:21 < fenn> many to many multicast 01:21 < nsh> ah 01:22 * fenn smells patent encroachment 01:22 < nsh> meh 01:22 * nsh builds the seastead of Stateless 01:23 < fenn> this seems like the sort of thing Lightman would be interested in 01:23 < nsh> Alex? 01:23 < fenn> i still cant tell if he's a con-artist or not though 01:23 < nsh> mm 01:23 < fenn> maybe it's just endemic to being a businessman 01:24 < fenn> wrong word 01:24 < fenn> i should start studying english with anki 01:25 < nsh> "Lightman is the author of the first book on 4G wireless, 'Brave New Unwired World: The Digital Big Bang and the Infinite Internet'" 01:25 < fenn> then i really wouldnt be able to communicate with anybody :( 01:25 < nsh> sounds pretty kitch 01:25 < nsh> communication is mostly a masturbatory illusion anyway 01:26 < nsh> you're interacting with a caricature of someone else you created from insufficient information and that only exists in your mind 01:26 < fenn> sometimes i make faces in a mirror 01:26 < fenn> or talk to animals 01:27 < nsh> i try every now and then, but need to work on it 01:27 < fenn> i feel that choosing words that have shared meanings similar to my understanding of them is a good thing 01:28 < nsh> i had an idea the other day for the creation of a highly equivocal conlang 01:28 < nsh> the notion being that for most words there are multiple thesaurus-alternatives, each overlapping with a different (set of) concept(s) 01:28 < nsh> so that you can make any sentence be arbitrarily undertoned 01:28 < fenn> heh i submitted "principia discordia" to the public disclosure patent defense people, supposedly as a description of building an "automated ambiguity engine" 01:29 < nsh> nice :) 01:29 < fenn> should have saved the abstract text 01:29 < nsh> it should be on record 01:29 < fenn> those guys have no sense of humor 01:29 * nsh nods 01:29 < fenn> apparently not! 01:29 < nsh> heh 01:29 < fenn> the reason i was submitting it was to see where it would end up, but they denied it 01:29 < clemux> fenn: I think I found the chan on kanzure's website when surfing on transhumanism-related websites 01:30 < fenn> i wanted to see other disclosures 01:30 < nsh> would be a nice idea for a webcomic: episodes based on rejected patent applications 01:30 < fenn> and sent like 5 emails to them about it, still havent seen any (much waffling from them in response) 01:30 < nsh> hmm 01:30 < Utopiah> http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=5512 01:30 < fenn> "powered flight? that couldn't possibly work. denied!" 01:31 < nsh> everyone knows birds are lighter than air 01:31 < nsh> oh 01:32 < fenn> "Free downloading is good for the musician. All artists do their best work when they are poor and hurting. For the sake of music hurt a musician today." 01:32 < nsh> idea: make things more buoyant by increasing the weight of air 01:32 * fenn just watched a movie about ray charles, who wrote his best songs while addicted to heroin 01:32 < nsh> we need to come up with an incredibly heavy yet remarkably stable isotope of nitrogen 01:33 < nsh> then we're laughing 01:33 < quantumkat> That's like in Futurama- moving space around the space ship. (: 01:33 < nsh> reminds me of the Someone Else's Problem field 01:34 < nsh> and the fact that something else reminded me of it the other day, and annoyingly i can't remember what 01:34 < nsh> was a nonfiction piece 01:36 * nsh ruminates on perceptual-attentive hacks 01:36 < quantumkat> Fenn: You need money to purchase heroin and not have to sell your piano. 01:36 < fenn> alcubierre warp? 01:37 < fenn> heim theory? 01:39 < nsh> FACT: heroin addictions boosts the average person's business acumen by over 300% 01:40 < fenn> FACT: dealing drugs increases your competency at salesmanship and business management 01:40 < fenn> crap i have to do taxes this year 01:41 < nsh> some of my most interesting economic contemplations have arisen from being a sometime purveyor of contraband 01:41 < quantumkat> I actually know someone who was addicted to heroin in 10th grade, and she's a couple if semesters away from a business degree. 01:42 < quantumkat> of* 01:42 * nsh considers taking to raising a triumphant fist and shouting ANECDOTE, GO! whenever he hears a story that corroborates his prejudices 01:43 < fenn> nsh: i support you in this endeavour 01:45 < fenn> god i hate rounded corners... *sob* http://fennetic.net/portfolio/ 01:45 * fenn slits his wrists with a putty knife 01:46 < fenn> someone show me a pentagonal layout and i'll be impressed 01:47 < fenn> prezi x penrose tiling on acid 01:48 < fenn> quantumkat: lest you get the wrong impression, i've never done any drugs stronger than chocolate (though i hit the chocolate pretty hard sometimes) 01:48 < nsh> to be fair though, you do quaff imagination in potent doses 01:49 < fenn> oh, i can't take credit for that... 01:50 < fenn> it's the intercontextual time travel agents manipulating the fabric of reality dedicated to simulating my subconscious 01:50 < nsh> damn those InterCont goons! 01:50 < kanzure> fenn: get rid of the css background shading, convert the font to verdana and you will have mastered the web 2.0 look :( 01:51 < fenn> it is verdana 01:52 < nsh> if you want a taste of some of my more potent nutcasings, here's the personal statement that (somehow) got me accepted into university last year: http://paste.lisp.org/display/73514 01:53 < nsh> one of my better pieces of constrained writing (exactly the number of characters permitted in the online form) 01:54 < fenn> it's really hard to find stuff on orion's arm that you sorta halfway remember 01:54 < kanzure> fenn: the only way to do that is to ask the orionsarm.com mailing list dwellers 01:55 < kanzure> also they've been doing a site re-design for the past year and i suspect part of their content base is, uh, "not there any more" 01:56 < kanzure> thomas paviot wants me to write a paper for pythonocc for scipy2010 01:56 < kanzure> and also make up the presentation 01:56 < kanzure> and then put him as a co-author on the paper 01:56 < kanzure> which he will not contribute to. 01:56 < kanzure> maybe this is just some sort of werid french->english conversion error 01:56 < kanzure> *weird 01:57 < fenn> i wonder if anybody who read it understood this quote: "This reentrancy of our comprehensive manifold becomes the next layer of cosmological self-reference: as physics gives rise to biology that it may model physics, biology gives rise to cognition that it may model biology." 01:57 < kanzure> blah blah blah, emergence 01:57 < kanzure> blah blah tautology blah 01:57 < kanzure> final cause blah 01:58 < fenn> heh 01:58 * nsh smiles 01:58 * fenn winks 01:58 * kanzure still thinks nsh is a hidden markov machine/model 01:58 * quantumkat coughs 01:58 * kanzure is actually asleep and kat doesn't see him 01:58 < kanzure> At all. 01:58 < fenn> apparently nobody pays attention to /away status 01:58 * quantumkat looks oblivious 01:59 * genehacker observes quantumkat 02:00 < kanzure> nsh: have you stalked john smart yet? 02:00 < fenn> getting stupid things done efficiently is better than getting them done inefficiently 02:00 < genehacker> chocolate has a marijauna analog in it 02:00 < quantumkat> Oh no! Did I live or die? 02:00 < fenn> genehacker: so does your mom 02:00 < nsh> i'm banned from stalking by the stalkers' guild 02:00 < genehacker> get out of here stalker? 02:00 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid#Endocannabinoids 02:01 < nsh> who the hell gets a bachelors in the business administration 02:01 < nsh> is that for people who have too much soul to sit through the entire masters? 02:01 < quantumkat> Some people REALLY want to GM McDonalds. 02:01 < genehacker> no, it is for people who lack them 02:01 < genehacker> GM? 02:01 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system#Role_in_human_female_reproduction 02:02 < quantumkat> General Manage 02:02 < quantumkat> Game Master 02:02 < quantumkat> Whatever 02:02 * nsh corrects the grammar in that section 02:02 < fenn> gross misrepresentative 02:03 < nsh> kanzure, some interesting stuff by smart. what's your take on him/it? 02:03 < fenn> if i havent learned 5 new things after dessert, the day just isn't complete 02:04 < nsh> "In his defense, he claims universal and human-historical accelerating change (see Carl Sagan's Cosmic Calendar) do not appear to be simply a product of evolution but of some universal developmental process, one apparently protected, in a general statistical sense, by poorly understood immune systems in complex systems." 02:05 < nsh> makes very little sense to me... 02:05 < kanzure> try running a search for him plus "evo devo universe" or "evodevo" 02:06 < fenn> is this like "timewave zero"? 02:06 < kanzure> who is timewave? 02:06 < fenn> terrence mckenna bs 02:06 < quantumkat> Novelty theory! 02:06 < kanzure> i avoid mckenna bs, so you'll have to enlighten me 02:06 < fenn> uh.. well, i'm not really sure i can explain it very well 02:06 < nsh> "Lately he had his head down writing his book. This is why I am extra happy that he takes a brake to introduce his current big picture thinking at our next Future Salon on Friday the 17th of April. (6-7 networking 7-9pm talk/conversation)." freudian slip on 'break/brake'? 02:07 < kanzure> step 1: get high 02:07 < fenn> sth like "there is a magical fractal shape underlying reality which reaches an asymptote on december 21 2012" 02:07 < kanzure> no 02:08 < kanzure> "The Child-Proof Universe Hypothesis: Informational Immunity (ADC resilience to catastrophe), a product of two-way communication in a collective of evolutionary systems, grows superexponentially at the leading edge of local development." 02:08 < kanzure> he gave a presentation at h+ summit 2009 about this 02:08 < kanzure> but i was too self-absorbed to listen / type a transcript 02:09 < nsh> mckenna's timewave was a form of teleological 'attractor'. i think smart's conception is of a more general (non-retrocausal) telos or 'purpose' general to developmental systems 02:09 < nsh> *better_english() 02:09 < kanzure> "Immune systems are seen, to varying degrees, in all substrate levels in universal evolutionary development, from galactic, stellar, planetary, plant, animal, neurologic, social, and technologic systems. They are apparently a key part of the deep structure of any cosmic system which allows the local development of computational complexity." 02:10 < kanzure> http://www.accelerationwatch.com/laws.html 02:10 < kanzure> well at least he cites godel and chaitin 02:10 < nsh> that domain makes me chuckle, thinking it's in the same vein as other *watch sites 02:11 < kanzure> heh 02:11 < nsh> still can't decide whether i like or hate chaitin 02:11 < kanzure> it's not that important 02:12 < kanzure> re: immune systems, tony smith recently pointed me to an article on anticipation 02:13 < kanzure> http://www.ukzn.ac.za/undphil/collier/papers/collier-Corrected-April-8-2006.pdf 02:14 < kanzure> which was in an email re: rosen and ulanowicz 02:14 < genehacker> I need to read more about about anticipation, apparently someone came up with an interesting robot that did anticipatory control 02:14 < kanzure> warning: last .pdf is super-philosophy, be warned 02:14 < genehacker> oh so anticipation still is like that? 02:14 < kanzure> "Conditions for fully autonomous anticipation" 02:14 < fenn> "Do we live in a universe where the really dangerous aspects of technology are simply inaccessible to dangerously simple minds?" wtf does that have to do with "immune systems"? 02:15 < kanzure> fenn: a lot of accelerationstudies.org stuff is about fearmongering and promotionalism stuff.. 02:15 < fenn> i dont think that's what he's going for at all 02:15 < fenn> read it again 02:16 < fenn> he's saying we can't destroy ourselves if we tried 02:16 < kanzure> "Autonomous systems actively control the conditions of their own existence so as to increase their overall viability. This paper will first give minimal necessary and sufficient conditions for autonomous anticipation, followed by a taxonomy of autonomous anticipation." 02:16 < nsh> now he's just throwing down a challenge 02:16 < nsh> don't tempt me... 02:16 < fenn> i could think of worse things to try 02:17 < kanzure> worse? 02:17 < fenn> wasnt that the point of aum shinri kyo? 02:17 < kanzure> how could anything possibly be worse 02:17 < nsh> i'm sure that's what the dinosaurs thought 02:17 < fenn> the dinosaurs didnt launch that meteor 02:18 < kanzure> .. did they? 02:18 < nsh> i remember reading that there was a time when 6 foot mushrooms ruled land, before there were any animals about to trash them 02:18 < kanzure> !conspiracybot new conspiracy 02:18 * nsh smiles 02:18 < nsh> (actually had a dream about a mushroom last night; they're probably controlling my thoughts. woke up in a sweat...) 02:18 < kanzure> um i did that all wrong 02:19 < nsh> it seems a bit blaze to write sentences with unqualified throwaway clauses like "...as stable intelligence never develops without concomitant immunity" 02:20 < fenn> mushrooms didnt evolve into animals (or did they.. wonk) 02:20 < kanzure> nsh: i'm surprised there are no references in those sentences too 02:20 < kanzure> where does he expect his readers to go 02:20 < fenn> i had a dream about how to crack combination locks :\ 02:21 < nsh> *blase 02:21 < nsh> hmm 02:21 < fenn> in my dream somehow i knew they were dependent on gravity, but i didnt know this consciously 02:21 < fenn> it turns out to be true 02:21 < fenn> why can't aliens beam useful shit into my mind while i'm asleep, like how to build a time machine or something 02:22 < nsh> i was thinking a bit about the mechanism of spontaneous pseudomemorygenesis in dreams earlier 02:22 < nsh> someone called me on my phone, they were called "naomi", and i instantly 'remembered' that they were living in chile 02:22 < nsh> where does that come from? i used to think it was actual recollection from previous dream tropes, but i doubt that 02:22 < fenn> isnt that a basic feature of dreamness? 02:23 < fenn> where you "just know" something 02:23 < nsh> aye 02:23 < kanzure> i volunteer my mom to test any wild ideas about dreaming 02:23 < kanzure> she's the whole circus when it comes to lucid dreaming 02:23 < nsh> but is it just entropically generated on-the-spot? 02:23 < nsh> oh, cool 02:23 < kanzure> sleep walking, sleep talking, sleep driving, sleep doing everything under the sun 02:23 < kanzure> apparently she wakes up exhausted 02:23 < nsh> heh 02:24 < kanzure> sleep breaking-up-with-the-boyfriend 02:24 < fenn> nsh: i believe it's a byproduct of the shuffling of synaptic circuits, crosstalk if you will 02:24 < nsh> fenn, i can appreciate that it's probably entropic 02:24 < nsh> but the fact that it's so easily interpreted to be contextually (semi)sensible is amazing 02:25 < fenn> humans are good at rationalizing :( 02:25 < nsh> quite. 02:26 < fenn> kanzure: so how does your mom get so much energy? if she wakes up exhausted 02:26 < kanzure> fuck if i know 02:26 * kanzure sleeps (interview.. blah.) 02:26 < fenn> night 02:26 < nsh> "In example after example, the immune learning which occurs with any catastrophe always seems to statistically increase the average distributed complexity (ADC) of the local network, if not the individual" 02:26 < nsh> data or it didn't happen. 02:26 < genehacker> rolipram? 02:26 < nsh> night kanz 02:28 < fenn> smart has some interesting and well summarized ideas, even if i dont like his use of the word "immune" 02:28 < fenn> also, is he a name changer like "max more"? 02:29 < nsh> in what sense? 02:30 < nsh> i think Smart was born Smart 02:31 < fenn> kind of makes it hard to search for "smart safecar" 02:31 < nsh> mm 02:34 < nsh> why must the binmen come on monday mornings 02:34 < fenn> we have mexicans with weedwhackers 02:34 < nsh> probably sounds better 02:34 < fenn> it would have rhymed or something if i had said 'wetbacks' 02:35 < nsh> heh he 02:35 < fenn> WWW: the future has arrived 02:35 < fenn> WWWW 02:36 < fenn> <- still waiting for teleoperated robo-maid 02:36 * fenn mumbles something about fembots 02:37 < nsh> me too 02:37 < nsh> in finnish, despite putatively having the same number of syllables as double-ew, saying WWW takes about twice a long 02:37 < nsh> but they don't differentiate between w and v much, so people just say vvv 02:37 < fenn> who puts the most interesting talk in the conference on the first day first thing in the morning? wtf! 02:38 < nsh> maybe they don't want everyone leaving early 02:38 < nsh> wait 02:38 < nsh> no idea 02:42 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-39-74.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:43 < quantumkat> So that only the truly dedicated will be rewarded. 02:43 < quantumkat> And those with alarm clocks. 02:43 < fenn> sleep to live or live to sleep 02:44 < fenn> the world will be inherited by those who sleep 02:44 < fenn> logical deduction from jesus and 'sleep is for the weak' 02:45 * fenn goes away 02:45 < nsh> adieu 03:42 -!- marainein [~marainein@220.253-203-157.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46 < fenn> too much "extreme moose tracks" to be able to sleep, drew this instead http://fennetic.net/sketches/gumstix_glasses1_web.jpg http://fennetic.net/sketches/gumstix_glasses2_web.jpg 03:48 < fenn> chunky 03:59 < Utopiah> how can I search a term accross multiple domains? site:X,Y or site:X site:Y doesn't work 04:16 < superkuh> "gumstix, microSD, kopindides(?)..." what is that word? 04:17 < superkuh> re: fenn's head mounted display sketches 04:18 -!- QuantumG [~qg@nuclear.biodome.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:19 -!- QuantumG [~qg@nuclear.biodome.org] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:44 < nsh> Utopiah, there's probably a greasemonkey script to combine results from google queries 04:44 < nsh> or a site 04:44 < Utopiah> nsh: well it's actually to do it with Vimperator but I can't do it directly so that was already a trick :/ 04:45 < Utopiah> but yes, if I can't find anything else Ill just make a webpage for that I guess 04:45 < nsh> mmm 04:47 < nsh> Utopiah, http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&hl=en&q=science+[+keyword+site:slashdot.org+OR+site:reddit.com+]&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= 04:47 < nsh> you need the square brackets apparently 04:48 < nsh> oh, keyword should be the query 04:48 < nsh> not sure it matters then whether the query term is inside or outside the brackets 04:49 < Utopiah> nice, thanks nsh , I did check Google advanced search but it merged the domains automatically 04:49 < nsh> np 05:05 < nsh> motherfucking dinosaurs predate flowers 05:06 < nsh> how the hell did i miss that nugget of information!? 05:06 < nsh> there were no flowers on earth then the dinosaurs were doing their shit 05:06 < nsh> THE LAND BEFORE TIME WAS ALL LIES 05:08 < QuantumG> I honestly wasn't aware of that 05:10 -!- klafka [~klafka@129.21.69.75] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:29 < nsh> aye, i was surprised 05:30 < nsh> learnt it from here: flowers 05:30 < nsh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Calendar 05:30 < nsh> more infos here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_history_of_plants 05:45 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@2001:0:53aa:64c:c99:1766:52c6:ef50] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:46 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone. 05:47 * nsh tips hat 06:58 -!- klafka [~klafka@129.21.69.75] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:00 -!- hoboasa [~asa@adsl-99-63-251-31.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 07:24 -!- randallagordon [~randallag@c-76-115-121-108.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:59 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-52-222.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:25 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-52-222.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:41 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-146-4.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:46 -!- klafka [~klafka@129.21.69.75] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:05 -!- chupacabra [~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-123-173.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09 -!- chupacabra [~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-123-173.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:17 -!- anthony_ [~anthonyl@208-78-67-234-rangeroamerinc.clt.ord.sparkplugbb.net] has left #hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 09:18 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-146-4.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:23 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-146-4.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:31 < kanzure> is it food time yet 09:52 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-146-4.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-146-4.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:56 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-146-4.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:12 -!- anthonyl [~anthonyl@208-78-67-234-rangeroamerinc.clt.ord.sparkplugbb.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:31 < kanzure> jrayhawk: how does debian.org prevent hostile takeovers from self-promotionalist bastards 12:46 -!- anthonyl [~anthonyl@208-78-67-234-rangeroamerinc.clt.ord.sparkplugbb.net] has left #hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 13:33 -!- ferrouswheel [~joel@121-98-81-17.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:35 < kanzure> thebwt: 13:35 < kanzure> http://texaslinuxfest.org/ 13:35 < kanzure> is there any chance you know some people who would be interested in attending? 13:36 < thebwt> most of my team 13:36 < thebwt> We're working with canonical 13:36 < thebwt> I'm personally going to be helping the gnome foundation as well. 13:37 < thebwt> I see you have a presentation :D 13:37 -!- anthonyl [~anthonyl@208-78-67-234-rangeroamerinc.clt.ord.sparkplugbb.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:37 < kanzure> :) 13:42 -!- ferrouswheel [~joel@121-98-81-17.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:54 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:19 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-39-74.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:31 < kanzure> ferrouswheel: you might be interested in downloading this: http://gnusha.org/irclogs.txt 14:33 < fenn> O-O reprap parts selling for $550 on ebay.. maybe i'm in the wrong business 14:33 < nsh> someone should enable compression on that, kanzure 14:43 < fenn> more data to hoard http://wiki.makerbot.com/lineage 14:49 < kanzure> nsh: http://gnusha.org/logs/ 14:49 < kanzure> er, let it regenerate 14:49 < nsh> cool 14:49 < kanzure> done 14:58 < fenn> superkuh: says "kopin drivers" and yes it's illegible. kopin is the company that makes the lcd screens in the myvu video glasses. right now there's a whole boatload of electronics to convert to s-video then composite video then back to digital and finally the kind of digital that the display wants. i can simplify that all out by outputting the right signal in the first place, or something close to it 15:01 < fenn> hmm this was in 2007, i wonder if it ever made it into reality: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/30/seagate-unveils-d-a-v-e-drive-with-bluetooth-and-wifi/ 15:05 -!- anthonyl [~anthonyl@208-78-67-234-rangeroamerinc.clt.ord.sparkplugbb.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:43 -!- klafka [~klafka@129.21.69.75] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:42 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-39-74.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:54 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:08 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-39-74.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:12 -!- egeste [~egeste@70.85.237.250] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:12 < egeste> interesting research 17:22 < fenn> context plz 17:23 < egeste> fabrication 17:23 < egeste> general concept(s) 17:31 -!- hoboasa [~asa@adsl-99-90-128-38.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:40 -!- hoboasa [~asa@adsl-99-90-128-38.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-39-74.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:53 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-39-74.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:02 -!- hoboasa [~asa@adsl-99-90-128-38.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:09 -!- shepazutoo [~schepers@adsl-242-200-136.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:10 -!- shepazu [~schepers@adsl-69-158-118.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:33 < kanzure> universal uls-25er 19:33 < kanzure> hi egeste 19:53 < genehacker> can you cut paper with it? 19:53 < kanzure> yes 19:53 < JayDugger> And score paper, too. 19:53 < genehacker> aluminum> 19:53 < kanzure> aluminum no 19:53 < genehacker> why? 19:53 < kanzure> you need something like 1kW to do aluminum apparently 19:53 < genehacker> can't you slow down the beam scan speed? 19:53 < kanzure> but i haven't confirmed this on the internets 19:53 < JayDugger> Now you just need a press brake for paper and a robot arm to manipulate, and you have an origami machine. 19:53 < genehacker> thin aluminum 19:54 < genehacker> foil 19:54 < JayDugger> I'll bet aluminum has too high a heat capacity for the laser, but I don't know. 19:54 < genehacker> that'd be papercraft 19:54 < JayDugger> Can you cut glass or acrylic? 19:54 < kanzure> both glass and acrylic 19:54 < genehacker> really? 19:54 < kanzure> yes 19:54 < JayDugger> Hmm...can it do perforations, or just continuous strokes? 19:54 < genehacker> neat 19:55 < kanzure> JayDugger: are perforations non-continuous strokes? 19:55 < JayDugger> One hole after the other makes a perforation. 19:55 < kanzure> yes 19:55 < genehacker> hmmm... I need to make something ridiculously complex and interesting to laser up 19:55 < kanzure> it can do that too 19:55 < kanzure> it can even cut pie 19:56 < JayDugger> What? 19:56 < fenn> aluminum doesn't like to be laser cut.. steel much easier 19:56 < JayDugger> Without burning it? 19:56 < genehacker> do you have it yet? 19:56 < kanzure> yes i have it 19:56 < JayDugger> fenn, what about copper? I think that'd be worse. 19:56 < fenn> supposedly the laser produces toxic chemicals when you cut food, not suitable for consumption 19:56 < kanzure> oh fooey 19:56 < fenn> copper is also bad 19:56 < genehacker> really? 19:56 < genehacker> that's odd 19:56 < JayDugger> I find that hard to believe. Worse than barbeque? 19:57 < fenn> dunno, just what i heard 19:57 < kanzure> there are always toxic particles that are generated (any fine particulate matter can do damage to yo) 19:57 < kanzure> *you 19:57 < kanzure> and also t oyo 19:57 < kanzure> *to yo 19:57 < kanzure> so you have to hook it up to a ventilation system 19:57 < JayDugger> I think it'd work poorly on most food, but mostly because it'd burn the food. 19:58 < JayDugger> Try it with pecan pie, kanzure. 19:58 < genehacker> yay coloumb explosions, the same reason why Corium spontaneously generates dust 19:58 < kanzure> JayDugger: fenn's comment was that it will kill you 19:58 < kanzure> not that it won't work 19:58 < fenn> JayDugger: i was looking at some laser cut cardboard the other day.. it looked like it was cut with an x-acto knife, not burned at all 19:58 < JayDugger> That's why I volunteered you to make the test. 19:58 < kanzure> oh lovely 19:58 < fenn> or maybe a micro-ferret.. little ridges about 0.1mm wide 19:58 < kanzure> well, i'm already signed up to fight mac's legal battles for him apparently 19:58 < JayDugger> fenn, did you use any magnification? 19:59 < kanzure> so the more the merrier 19:59 < JayDugger> I've read lasers have an hourglass-shaped kerf. 20:01 < fenn> JayDugger: http://fennetic.net/irc/cellbot_acrylic_cardboard.jpg 20:01 < fenn> no i didnt use magnification 20:02 < JayDugger> Got it. Thank you, fenn. 20:04 < genehacker> so .dxf files, correct? 20:04 < kanzure> i am going to implement a laser targeting system to zap you in the fucken nads if you don't submit stuff to it in .svg 20:05 < genehacker> ok 20:05 < kanzure> but yes .dxf can work 20:05 < genehacker> why only .svg? 20:05 < kanzure> .dxf is proprietary and you should be more careful with your work? 20:06 < genehacker> but my cad programs don't output in .svg... 20:06 < kanzure> fenn: what do i do 20:06 < genehacker> mmmm... maybe they do 20:07 < genehacker> they do 20:07 < genehacker> nevermind 20:09 < fenn> dxf is not the worst thing ever.. it's just poorly executed 20:09 < fenn> it "can" be done well 20:09 < fenn> but usually something that exports dxf will do it badly 20:10 < genehacker> so how do you tell the laser to score paper 20:10 < genehacker> different colored lines? 20:11 < fenn> different layers i guess 20:11 < fenn> or dashed lines 20:16 < fenn> kanzure you should get one of those quickcam orbits for the austin hackerspace 20:16 < fenn> then i can make fun of you guys for never being there 20:20 < kanzure> i'm there now 20:20 < genehacker> this isn't svg, but... 20:20 < genehacker> http://www.geocities.jp/micropaperplane/kitte1.pdf 20:20 < kanzure> what are you talking about :( 20:21 < genehacker> http://www.geocities.jp/micropaperplane/sikousakugokitteno1.htm 20:32 -!- Noahj [~noah@ip68-230-157-203.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:33 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:43 < kanzure> edison was a patent troll? http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1599570&cid=31665222 20:44 < nsh> totally 20:53 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has left #hplusroadmap ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:21 < jrayhawk> edison ran a patent thinktank and was notorious for ripping off both the creators and licensees of patents in whatever way he could 21:22 < QuantumG> and claiming complete personal notoriety for everything that came out of that think tank.. 21:22 < QuantumG> a bit like Wolfram really 21:29 < kanzure> why did i let mom convince me to let her take away all my crapboxes 21:30 < kanzure> now that i definitely need one i don't have one laying around :( 21:30 < kanzure> i wonder how to solve the wiring issue 21:30 < kanzure> i'm thinking of draping ethernet, or whatever else, over the ceiling beams 21:31 < kanzure> but that's not really organized 21:31 < kanzure> pvc pipe through the ceiling with drop-down points? 21:33 < nsh> if only there was some kind of wireless networking protocol... 21:34 < fenn> edison was a bastard in every way possible 21:34 < nsh> and typified the american dream 21:34 < fenn> yeah now we have high schools named after him 21:35 < fenn> probably because he donated money 21:35 * fenn shrugs 21:35 < fenn> wouldnt want a prison named after me 21:36 < nsh> a park would be nicer 21:36 < nsh> or a forest 21:36 < fenn> kanzure: probably too late now; i was telling les to do a "backplane" with: air, electric, ethernet, water, drain 21:36 < fenn> all in parallel, wrapping around the back wall 21:36 < jrayhawk> bryan: always drape wires everywhere 21:36 < jrayhawk> ALWAYS. 21:36 < fenn> then "plug" the offices into that 21:37 < fenn> and yes i know ethernet is star topology 21:38 < nsh> just how carcinogenic, incidentally, is eating charred chicken? i absolutely vulcanised some chili strips earlier and ate them anyway out of economy 21:38 < nsh> i think a little is probably healthy from time to time 21:40 < fenn> it's not activated charcoal 21:40 * nsh consults the welcomingly-patronising http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/asksam/healthydiet/meatq/#A221179 21:41 < nsh> meh 21:42 < fenn> maybe you just shouldnt eat dead animals 21:43 < nsh> hey, let's not be too radical :) 21:43 < nsh> eating living animals bears its own hazards 21:43 < kanzure> fenn: backwall backplane would have been nice. 21:43 < kanzure> in data centers they just do stuff underneath right? 21:44 < fenn> both 21:45 < fenn> hard to find pictures of "real" datacenters on the internetz 21:45 < fenn> http://www.unitedhosting.com/images/datacenter-2.jpg 21:46 < kanzure> i have a feeling that this might turn into a wiring catastrophe no matter what i try to do 21:47 < kanzure> "Director of Wires, Cords and Pipes: all wiring must be approved OR ELSE" 21:47 < kanzure> :P 21:50 < fenn> just make sure everything is at least on a cad drawing somewhere 21:51 < kanzure> wrapping around the back wall is nice but i'm more wondering about stuff in the middle 21:53 < kanzure> there are already too many power cords running over the floor (a total of 2, i counted) 21:53 < kanzure> strategically blocking all entrances so you can't roll anything over 'em without getting creative 21:55 < kanzure> but if you drop bundles of your utilities down from the ceiling, you'll only have a handful of drop points that everything will cluster around 21:58 < kanzure> why isn't this stuff built into the slab by default 23:25 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-39-74.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:34 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-39-74.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap