--- Day changed Tue May 11 2010
01:57 -!- Incarnation [~lorem@66.51.248.166] has quit []
02:45 -!- streety [~s0678364@cpat002.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:16 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap
04:38 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
04:44 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
05:32 -!- klafka [~klafka@129.21.69.225] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:10 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:23 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
06:30 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:32 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-54-250.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:55 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-57-16-175.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:10 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-54-250.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
07:45 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-54-250.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:10 < fenn> history of multitouch: http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html
08:11 < Utopiah> nice, will make a good link on my "Burn Apple Inc(R)" page
08:12 < JayDugger> Thank you, fenn!
08:12 < JayDugger> I still have my Fingerworks keyboard.
08:22 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-54-250.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
08:35 < fenn> 1985: multi-touch tablet
08:37 < fenn> The Haptic Lens, a multi-touch sensor that had the feel of clay, in that it deformed the harder you pushed, and resumed it basic form when released
08:39 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-158-110.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:40 < fenn> seems to be like the soy-sauce-in-a-bag device
08:40 < fenn> i should make one of those
08:41 < fenn> had no feedback though, lame
08:46 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@58.41.34.2] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:46 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@58.41.34.2] has quit [Client Quit]
08:54 -!- klafka [~klafka@129.21.69.225] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
09:02 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-158-110.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
09:20 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-158-110.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:30 -!- streety [~s0678364@cpat002.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
10:07 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
10:14 -!- ve [~a@193.62.81.17] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:19 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:38 -!- jm|space [~jm@p57B9D7D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:41 -!- jm|earth [~jm@p57B9E93B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
10:59 -!- kristianpaul [~kristianp@190.7.138.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
10:59 -!- kristianpaul [~kristianp@190.7.138.249] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:05 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-158-110.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
11:24 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-54-250.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:08 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-54-250.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:24 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-54-250.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:25 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:30 -!- quantumkat [~quantumka@ip72-196-96-148.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:30 < kanzure> yay
12:30 < quantumkat> we can have a party, now!
12:38 < superkuh> "Low-Energy Defibrillation Using Resonant Drift Pacing", 2009 (PDF 4.0M) http://www.maths.liv.ac.uk/~vadim/theses/Morgan.pdf - The paper goes from cell level electrophysiological models of cells to tissue level finite element meshes and ends up with a description of tissue level nerve behavior that is actually useful and predictive!
12:38 < superkuh> The group of associated with the paper has quite a few articles on scholarpedia as well for the introductory background.
12:42 < kanzure> does anyone want to attend this? http://telexlr8.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/david-orban-on-the-singularity-university-teleplace-may-11/
12:42 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-54-250.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
12:42 < kanzure> giulio prisco is offering
12:42 < Utopiah> he'll record this one too?
12:42 < kanzure> i don't know
13:01 -!- parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:01 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-158-110.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:08 -!- quantumkat [~quantumka@ip72-196-96-148.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:22 -!- quantumkat [~kat@ip72-196-96-148.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:40 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-158-110.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:53 -!- quantumkat [~kat@ip72-196-96-148.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
13:56 -!- jm|space [~jm@p57B9D7D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:58 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-90-11.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:20 -!- Dustbin [~grumble@adsl-71-145-162-129.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:47 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-90-11.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
15:12 < Utopiah> http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/
15:56 < bkero> kanzure: That'd be pretty sweet
16:04 < QuantumG> just got a wireless energy monitor installed
16:05 < QuantumG> tells me how many watts I'm using (or $/hr)
16:08 -!- Dustbin [~grumble@71.22.109.98] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:16 < parolang`> Can anyone account for the downward slope? http://www.google.com/trends?q=emacs&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
16:16 < parolang`> whoops, sorry wrong channel
16:16 < kanzure> might be the right channel :)
16:18 < parolang`> heh :)
16:21 < jrayhawk> lisp programmers are presumably dying off
16:22 < parolang`> It isn't trendy :D
16:27 < QuantumG> Due to high costs caused by a post-war depletion of the strategic parentheses reserve LISP never [became] popular.  http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html
16:28 < parolang`> I guess not enough people have drank the paul graham koolaid :D
17:04 < klafka> lisp is pretty cool
17:04 < klafka> especially clojure
17:04 < klafka> w/ incanter
17:06 < parolang`> Well, we're still at the level where the mention of anything lisp-related is immediately followed by a snide comment about too many parentheses.
17:06 < parolang`> Thus, why lisp isn't trending too well :)
17:06 < QuantumG> still?
17:06 < QuantumG> always have been
17:07 < parolang`> Well, if lisp was trending better, people would be able to see past the parentheses more :)
17:09 < parolang`> Lisp isn't a parenthesis fetish, it's a programming language written in a data structure which gives it interesting and useful properties.
17:09 < QuantumG> there's no reason why it has to have no syntax
17:10 < QuantumG> to do that
17:11 < klafka> idk lisp has a lot of interesting things i hope to explore more, like its use in metaprogramming
17:11 < klafka> and w/ clojure you have a ton of easy to implement packages for it
17:11 < parolang`> Lisp kool-aid: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html
17:13 < parolang`> QuantumG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoiconicity
17:14 < QuantumG> there's no need to sacrifice readability and maintainability for metaprogramming
17:15 < parolang`> That's why lisp does all three.
17:16 < QuantumG> lisp is neither readable nor maintainable.. that's the primary reason why it fails
17:16 < parolang`> It fails because people evaluate it superficially.
17:17 < QuantumG> if by "superficially" you mean "fuck that's unreadable, I'm not maintaining that!" then yes
17:17 < parolang`> Right, hence the source of our disagreement.
17:18 < parolang`> But then, that's what non-programmers say when they read code.
17:18 < parolang`> When you learn to read code it makes sense, just like learning to read any natural language.
17:19 -!- Dustbin [~grumble@71.22.109.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:19 < QuantumG> no you're wrong
17:22 < parolang`> :)
17:22 < parolang`> Because of no I am wrong.  I stand corrected.
17:22 < QuantumG> readability is best measured by the "writing to yourself in the future" test
17:24 -!- Incarnation [~lorem@66.51.248.166] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:24 < parolang`> You realize that lisp is one of the oldest programming languages there are right?  I'm sure it passes the future test :)
17:25 < parolang`> And emacs is one of the oldest text editors and still being heavily maintained.
17:26 < QuantumG> ok, now you're just demonstrating that you have no idea who you're talking to.
17:27 < parolang`> Okay :)
17:27 < parolang`> Anyway, back to a more h+ appropriate topic :)
17:43 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
17:48 < klafka> wait who are we talking to?
17:48 < klafka> RMS?????
17:50 < parolang`> You wish fanboy :)
17:51 < klafka> no i'm just glad you're not gonna eat stuff off your foot
17:51 < parolang`> blasphemy!
17:51 < QuantumG> hehe
17:53 < parolang`> Good thing flash video is patent encumbered, otherwise he would be very embarrassed.
18:49 < kanzure> wtf? http://www.flickr.com/photos/wonderfulemancipation/2843910588/sizes/l/
18:52 -!- Dustbin [~grumble@71.22.109.98] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:54 < QuantumG> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1648748&cid=32177872  for the ladies on the channel
19:02 < parolang`> QuantumG: I'd suggest you stop while you're still ahead.
19:02 < parolang`> Well, you're not ahead, but stop anyway.
19:02 < QuantumG> hehe
19:02 < QuantumG> I was just about to say I was never ahead
19:05 < parolang`> Yeah, you're being a serious douche, and I don't use the term loosely.
19:06 < QuantumG> sorry, are you saying you disagree?
19:07 < kanzure> i think he's arguing that your tact and delivery sucks
19:07 < QuantumG> you don't think humans are flawed and people have an obligation to improve the human condition?  what are you doing here then?
19:07 < kanzure> biological revisionism doesn't seem to be at stake (so far)
19:08 < QuantumG> well, I can't argue about tact or delivery.. 'cept to say, it's Slashdot :)
19:08 < parolang`> Improve the human condition in meaningful ways, not by imposing severe ostracism to people who don't improve themselves to our satisfaction.
19:09 < QuantumG> so you do disagree
19:09 < QuantumG> people who refuse to use deodorant, for example, shouldn't be ostracised?
19:09 < QuantumG> people who have a mental condition and refuse to stay on their meds shouldn't be ostracised?
19:11 < parolang`> I don't think anyone should be ostracized, really.
19:11 < kanzure> have you considered not being around people who smell bad, QuantumG?
19:11 < parolang`> It's not fun.
19:11 < QuantumG> umm.. that's what ostracized means kanzure
19:11 < kanzure> QuantumG: yeah but let's say that you're the only person who can smell people on the planet, and you hate the stench
19:12 < QuantumG> whenever everyone says "I don't want to be around you..", the person is ostracized... by, ya know, definition.
19:12 < kanzure> for byproducts like smell, the solution is easy (move somewhere else)
19:12 < kanzure> i thought ostracization usually has other social implications
19:12 < kanzure> god this sucks
19:12  * kanzure goes away to do more programming
19:13 < QuantumG> ostracism - the act of excluding someone from society by general consent 
19:13 < parolang`> But just think there was a time when deodorant wasn't widely available, and people got along and was happy.
19:13 < QuantumG> ostracize - avoid speaking to or dealing with; "Ever since I spoke up, my colleagues ostracize me" 
19:13 < kanzure> there's also a way to exclude them from your social interactions without consent
19:13 < QuantumG> ostracize - To exclude someone from society or from a community, by not communicating with or even noticing them, similar to shunning
19:13 < parolang`> Smelling bad wasn't such a serious offense because everyone did.
19:14 < parolang`> So, if with every "improvement" we become narrower and less inclusive, then I think we're confusing h+ with h- IMHO
19:14 < QuantumG> yes, because once it became practical to improve the human condition it became a social obligation to do so
19:14 < kanzure> O_o
19:15 < kanzure> are you into eugenics?
19:15 < QuantumG> hopefully, once it becomes practical to improve intelligence, unimproved people will be shunned and ignored by the unimproved.. 
19:15 < QuantumG> err, improved.
19:15 < JayDugger> err, which?
19:16 < parolang`> Hopefully?
19:16 < QuantumG> yes, hopefully
19:16 < kanzure> ..
19:16 < parolang`> Then we disagree.
19:16 < Noahj> I doubt intelligence improvements will work like that
19:16 < parolang`> Improvements need to be entirely opt-in.
19:16 < QuantumG> yes, they are
19:16 < Noahj> I suspect there'll still be plenty of things someone "improved" can learn from someone "unimproved" with more experience in a given field
19:17 < Noahj> And I suspect completely coverage of a population with a given update could be counterproductive if the implementation is buggy
19:17 < parolang`> QuantumG: What is ostracism but a form of coercion?
19:17 < QuantumG> wearing deodorant is completely optional
19:17 < JayDugger> So are clothes--but just try it.
19:17 < Noahj> I think "speaking english" is a better metaphor
19:17 < QuantumG> people may decide they don't wanna be around you, but that's your choice.
19:17 < kanzure> you are saying it's a "social obligation" to opt-in, though
19:17 < kanzure> that's coercion
19:17 < Noahj> I don't wear deodorant and I know a lot of people who don't 
19:17 < parolang`> QuantumG: I wear deodorant because *I* want to smell better, not because I don't want others to punish me.
19:18 < QuantumG> uh huh
19:18 < QuantumG> sure you do
19:18 < parolang`> QuantumG: Good will towards my fellow human beings.
19:18 < Noahj> People don't avoid talking to them, in fact, they'll strike up conversations with them just to inform them of their opinion on how they smell 
19:18 < kanzure> QuantumG: let's not question parolang`'s intentions :P there's no easy way to confirm those
19:18 < Noahj> I don't know anyone who doesn't speak english, because I only speak english...
19:18 < QuantumG> even if you say you wear deodorant for "good will towards fellow human beings" you've just made my argument for me
19:19 < superkuh> Luckily things like the internet exist wherein we can forget about wearing deodorant or clothing.
19:19 < QuantumG> mentally ill people should stay on their meds for the same reason
19:19 < kanzure> another way to look at it, for a reason to wear deodorant, is social hacking and platform programming on top of nostrils and receptors
19:19 < kanzure> most people suck at this programming, and their deodorant smells terrible
19:19 < parolang`> Well, if not "good will", we're very vain creatures, want others to have a good impression of us.  The same reason women wear makeup.
19:20 < Noahj> But being of normal intelligence is mostly harmless
19:20 < parolang`> Why people wear nice clothes.
19:20 < QuantumG> the argument or whether altruism is actually just selfish behaviour is a pretty old one
19:20  * kanzure has become disinterested
19:20 < kanzure> i am more concerned about QuantumG's social obligation policies O_O
19:21 < parolang`> Well, women need to have their PMS fixed according to QG :)
19:21 < QuantumG> whatever you wanna call it, whatever motives you want to assign to it, the fact remains that if society deems something an improvement then a social obligation for people to participate in that improvement quickly builds.
19:22 < kanzure> maybe a social peer pressure
19:22 < kanzure> but an obligation? wut?
19:22 < QuantumG> I don't see any difference in the two terms.. if you prefer I'll use social peer pressure
19:22 < kanzure> has anyone heard of HyperChem? http://hyper.com/
19:22 < kanzure> quantumkat just met the programmer behind it tonight
19:24 < QuantumG> looks neat
19:24 < kanzure> also i got an interesting idea pitched to me today
19:25 < kanzure> the concept is that the singularity is already occuring, and humans are a byproduct of a long-time-going singularity
19:25 < kanzure> instead of a singularity as a byproduct of human intelligence
19:25 < kanzure> fenn: you were trying to make up an argument for the singularity occuring in 1968, right?
19:26 -!- strages [~strages@c-76-29-243-225.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:26 < kanzure> strages: i saw your email to the hackerspaces list. hope the meetup goes well
19:27 < strages> me too
19:27 < strages> last year was a blast
19:27 < strages> few minor hiccups but it was the first time I'd ever done something like that
19:28 < strages> feel free to offer encouragement on the mailing list as well, as some are shy to respond
19:37 < JayDugger> Hmm...
19:38 < JayDugger> you mean something like Stross's argument about "phase changes" in human history: the Agricultural Revolution, the Industrial Revolution?
19:38 < JayDugger> Why 1968?
19:41 < jrayhawk> QuantumG: The story of the anointing of Jesus shows us that even Jesus thinks people who are highly critical of others for being sub-optimal are douches.
19:42 < QuantumG> bringing up religion on this channel is sufficient reason for me to think that you're sub-optimal
19:42 < jrayhawk> Basically what I'm trying to say is Jesus hates you.
19:44 < jrayhawk> Anyway, you might find your interactions with others going more smoothly if you reward good behavior instead of condemn anything less than perfect behavior.
19:46 < jrayhawk> I would also suggest second-guessing your hostility towards philosophy. Philosophy is the greatest engine for change in both individuals and society.
19:48 < QuantumG> is this something from some previous discussion that you're talking about?
19:51 < jrayhawk> Impressions.
19:58 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:05 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-55-76.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:07 < JayDugger> Good night, everyone. 
20:07 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-57-16-175.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:01 -!- Dustbin [~grumble@71.22.109.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:26 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-55-76.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
21:48 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-88-195.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:52 -!- parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:52 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:03 -!- Dustbin [~grumble@adsl-71-145-162-129.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:04 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-88-195.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:19 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-88-195.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:37 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-88-195.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:42 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-90-11.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:47 < Utopiah> http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2010/05/geoengineering_experiment_read_1.html
23:54 < genehacker> that ETC group they talk about is anti-transhumanist
23:54 < genehacker> they also aren't too fond of synbio either