--- Day changed Sun May 16 2010
00:33 < JayDugger> fenn: Have you, or do you know of, a template for BOMs?
00:39 < fenn> no
00:40 < fenn> i worked out a schema for describing parts ordered from different suppliers, it's inventory/data/schema.yaml
00:42 < fenn> bom and inventory are related don't you think?
00:42 < fenn> i hate it when people make bom's with parts ordered from mouser
00:43 < fenn> or some random european company i've never heard of
00:44 < fenn> a good bom format should be able to handle different possible suppliers, or even a whole tree of part combinations (i.e. you need steppers and stepper controllers or servos and servo controllers)
00:45 < fenn> metric/english hardware is another example
01:04 < JayDugger> Thank you. BOM & inventory interact, yes.
01:06 < JayDugger> How would I use this yaml schema?
01:11 < fenn> er, you look at it, and do stuff
01:11 < fenn> it's not a computer parseable document
01:14 < JayDugger> Do you have a public link to it?
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03:11 < JayDugger> http://halfbakedmaker.org/2010/03/07/genetic-programming-in-the-cloud/
05:35 < kanzure> JayDugger: http://designfiles.org/skdb/inventory/
05:35 < kanzure> there is no "schema" for yaml really
05:38 < JayDugger> What should I do with that directory, kanzure? Do I need to install django to use it?
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08:19 < kanzure> JayDugger: oh crap. sorry. that's smari's old stuff.
08:19 < JayDugger> No worries.
08:19 < kanzure> JayDugger: http://designfiles.org/skdb/doc/ has the other BOM/inventory directory
08:20 < JayDugger> Got it.
08:20 < JayDugger> Thank you, kanzure.
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10:39 < kanzure> http://www.hackyday.com/2010/05/biopunk-watch-time-temperature-gaming.html
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13:05 < any46613858> weather, sorry, bbl
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13:09 < thesnark> does anybody know of a good app that allows me to associate home-made annotations with web pages?
13:10 < kanzure> there are tons of firefox plugins for that i guess
13:13  * thesnark is using chrome
13:14 < thesnark> ah, sidewiki
13:14 < thesnark> duh
13:14 < thesnark> nvm
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15:04 < lepton_> Anybody have any suggestions for drupal site hosting? VM's to run on Linode are an option, too
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15:18 < lepton_> kanzure: You mentioned on gnusha.org that Michael Grube is a fellow trying to develop a 32-channel EEG headset. Some of the people I'm connected with are doing similar open source work, so it might be a good idea make some connections there
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15:26 < kanzure> http://jagdishhathiramani.wordpress.com/2010/05/16/tomorrowmedicine-personalised-and-self-aware/
15:26 < kanzure> lepton_: thesnark is michael
15:26 < kanzure> thesnark: ping
15:27 < thesnark> kanzure here
15:27 < kanzure> see above
15:27 < thesnark> hi lepton_
15:29 < kanzure> haha fake chinese google http://www.goojje.com/
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16:00 < thesnark> lepton_ I should inform you that we decided the most efficient use of our resources would be to simply open up the emotive epoc
16:01 < thesnark> lepton_ we are no longer designing a 32 channel eeg
16:02 < lepton_> Hey, sorry for the absense. I'm mostly away from the computer at the moment
16:02 < thesnark> no problem
16:02 < kanzure> i keep trying to convince thesnark to figure out the AES 512 encryption key for the emotiv headset ;)
16:03 < lepton_> There was some interesting work trying to open up the OCZ NIA headset that was fairly active last year
16:03 < lepton_> That would be great
16:03 < kanzure> it's embedded in the .exe file they distribute
16:04 < lepton_> I'm working on some FFT algorithms for an open sound responsive light system for a burning man project, and that might have some relavence to actual EEG hardware development
16:04 < thesnark> :) Cool!!
16:04 < lepton_> but is definetly in a different direction from using existing commerical hardware
16:05 < lepton_> anyway, I'd love to talk about that in more detail, but need to focus on another project for the moment
16:05 < lepton_> I'll be back later, going idle for now
16:05 < thesnark> ok
16:05 < lepton_> anyway, pleased to meet 'ya
16:05 < thesnark> for sure
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16:49 < fenn> lepton_: more info on your burning man project online anwywhere?
16:51 < fenn> JayDugger: sorry here it is http://designfiles.org/skdb/inventory/data/schema.yaml
17:00 < jrayhawk> Lepton: VMs on Gandi seem to be cheaper, FWIW.
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17:23 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i'm doing a little project this weekend on amazon ec2. i don't know if this makes me evil or not
17:25 < jrayhawk> The thing that freaks me out most about EC2 is people using it as a backups solution.
17:26 < kanzure> do you mean s3? (storage)
17:26 < jrayhawk> Er, yeah
17:26 < jrayhawk> I can never keep track of their cloud nomenclature
17:27 < kanzure> say.io is going to be running off of ec2 shortly
17:27 < kanzure> holy crap what a landing page
17:27 < kanzure> that was unexpected
17:29 < lepton_> Hello All, I'm back
17:29 < lepton_> fenn: Currently the burning man project isn't online anywhere
17:29 < lepton_> However, we're about to release an Arduino FFT library we're developing for it, and that might be a good time for us to post some more information
17:29 < lepton_> the basic premise is that we'll have a number of objects in a space, with each object having a microphone input and uC to do signal analysis and light up (or move in some cases) in reponse to the sounds of the environment
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17:29 < lepton_> so you could go in the space and sing or whistle or chant play instruments or whatever, and we can program RGB color responses in all sorts of interesting ways
17:30 < lepton_> ripples of color, easter eggs based on specific chords or patterns, interferance patterns between different spacial sources of sound
17:31 < kanzure> there's been a few projects that do that for visual input, but i can't remember their names
17:31 < lepton_> We're hoping that by making it arduino IDE programmable it will be easier for people to program it to do neat effects we haven't thought of
17:41 < lepton_> Kanzure: if you've got some down time, I'd be interested in hearing more about your iron man suit ambitions
17:42 < kanzure> first, the guy who wrote that email originally was doing it in plastic
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17:42 < kanzure> and using 3dsmax or some other mesh software
17:42 < kanzure> i agree that vacuum forming or hydro forming would be the way to go
17:42 < lepton_> ah, I just looked back and realized that might not actually be your project at all?
17:43 < kanzure> i do have some funding for crazy exoskeleton projects though :)
17:43 < lepton_> oh really?
17:43  * kanzure nods
17:43 < kanzure> yeah, open source hardware projects especially
17:43 < lepton_> I'm loosely connected with the Berkley exoskeletan project through UVA
17:43 < kanzure> not UAVs?
17:44 < kanzure> what?
17:44 < lepton_> Including some people on that group who are interested in developing something else
17:44 < lepton_> ^University of Virgina
17:44 < lepton_> This project (very old video that popped up on a google search); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkBEDy3eA1o
17:45 < lepton_> Unfortunately it's mechanical design has some pretty significant DOF limitations
17:45 < kanzure> giant backpack for one?
17:45 < kanzure> :P
17:45 < kanzure> have you seen the sarcos designs?
17:45 < lepton_> The hardware kinda sucks, but some good control sytesm modeling has come out of it
17:45 < lepton_> ^searching now
17:46 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYWd2C3XVIk
17:46 < lepton_> Ah yes, the American suit that doesn't suck :p
17:47 < lepton_> Yeah, I saw that one a while back
17:47 < lepton_> So anyway, what do you have going on with suit funding / projects?
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17:48 < kanzure> so we kind of are doing things backwards in here when it comes to hardware
17:48 < kanzure> er, i mean, in the sense of business
17:48 < kanzure> we started with hardware ideas that we wanted to implement, so we've been working towards that
17:48 < kanzure> so just be warned that a lot of this isn't actually a uh.. product
17:49 < kanzure> crazy mad scientist stuff, more than anything
17:49 < kanzure> although the idea of a kit store has been pitched a few times and work has happened on that front (or on the modular open source hardware designs re: cubespawn et al.)
17:49 < lepton_> ^no worries, I tend to occupy that space a fair amount too
17:49 < kanzure> so anyway, back in january i got some funding
17:49 < kanzure> it's not really funding. it's a one-time (well, potentially more time) dump of cash
17:49 < kanzure> that i do not have to pay back
17:49 < lepton_> lovely!
17:50 < kanzure> :)
17:50 < kanzure> the deal though is that i can't spend it on my personal living expenses
17:50 < kanzure> the other two points are that i can't tell peeps how much money it was,
17:50 < kanzure> and that i can't tell you who gave it to me
17:50 < kanzure> although we've got quite adept at guessing names around here (heh)
17:50 < lepton_> so what is it specfically funding for?
17:51 < kanzure> my crazy projects, but i expanded it to include stuff that goes on in here as well
17:51 < kanzure> i was thinking of i.e. paying for nootropics for everyone
17:51 < kanzure> okay, that's not particularly crazy
17:51 < lepton_> haha
17:51 < lepton_> Depends on the nootropics
17:51 < kanzure> but presumably you know about the hardware prototyping, apt-get-for-hardware work we're supposedly doing
17:51 < lepton_> Though I've fallen out of that habit lately
17:52 < lepton_> Yeap, as a matter of fact I've shown several people the youtube videos this weekend
17:52 < lepton_> I particually like the "pull a debian" on hardware line
17:52 < kanzure> :)
17:53 < lepton_> so then the funding is pointed in the skdb direction?
17:53 < kanzure> so getting people who are skilled in machining *and* know about debian, is asking for almost the impossible
17:53 < kanzure> yes
17:54 < lepton_> Well, there's always the EMC2 crowd for debian user machinists
17:54 < kanzure> yeah :)
17:55 < kanzure> fenn used to be do emc2 development apparently
17:55 < lepton_> (and us {my partner Dan and I})
17:55 < kanzure> he was living in my closet for a while until he was seduced by california
17:56 < bkero> emc2?
17:56 < kanzure> http://linuxcnc.org/
17:58 < lepton_> As a tangent comment, the world desperatly needs better open source CAM (computer aided manufacturing / CNC toolpath generation) software
17:58 < lepton_> I'd be delighted to see the opencascade framework be used to develop in that direction
17:58 < kanzure> have you seen heekscad and heekscnc?
17:59 < kanzure> heekscad a wx gui on top of opencascade
17:59 < kanzure> heekscnc does cam, but i've never used it so don't take this as a voucher
17:59 < kanzure> *heekscad is a wx gui
18:00 < lepton_> Yes, but imo heekscnc is still a long way from being a replacement for commerical CAM packages
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18:01 < lepton_> I wish I had infinite time and could develop features, but sadly we broke down and purchased Solidcam last week
18:05 < kanzure> sure
18:06 < lepton_> On the up side, we can make complex toolpath files about 10 times faster than before, and it'll all parametric linked to our solidworks models so changes propagate up and down
18:06 < lepton_> By that I mean our user workflow is about 10 times faster, toolpath calculation is pretty faster with whatever we use
18:07 < kanzure> reverse engineering the solidworks fileformat has been on my todo list for a while
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18:07 < lepton_> They're super liberal about sending out SDK's, in my experience
18:08 < lepton_> not sure if that would help at all
18:08 < lepton_> I think an open file format for parametricly defined 3d objects would be a very helpful thing
18:08 < lepton_> but I don't know of such a format right now
18:14 < kanzure> openscad is trying to do that, but they don't export to CAD
18:15 < lepton_> interesting
18:16 < kanzure> they just do stl meshes
18:17 < kanzure> lepton_: do you have access to ISO docs?
18:17 < lepton_> Yeah, as opposed to a parametric file format that would allow that parametric data to move between different programs
18:17 < lepton_> As in the ISO standards documentation?
18:17 < kanzure> yes
18:17 < lepton_> Directly, no
18:17 < kanzure> utexas.edu didn't have any access >:(
18:17 < kanzure> it makes it hard to get work done
18:17 < kanzure> i mean, when you're thinking about standards
18:17 < lepton_> I can see if colorado.edu has access
18:18 < lepton_> ^yeap
18:18 < kanzure> okay. if it does i'd like to write a scraper
18:18 < kanzure> torrent that shit
18:18 < lepton_> I did that with some of the IEEE libararies a while back
18:18 < kanzure> i did it with nature.com
18:18 < kanzure> .. the whole thing.
18:18 < lepton_> :)
18:18 < kanzure> so if you'd like a copy, uh
18:18 < lepton_> likewise
18:18 < lepton_> I've got about 10 or so gigs of technical papers
18:18 < kanzure> yay. maybe i'll send you a hard drive
18:19 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/papers/
18:19 < lepton_> I'd be really happy to get some mirrors going
18:19 < kanzure> if you could upload papers to that directory, that would be hot
18:19 < kanzure> another potentially fast connection to it is http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/
18:19 < lepton_> how should I go about logging in?
18:20 < lepton_> sftp?
18:20 < kanzure> i can give you an account
18:20 < kanzure> yes
18:20 < lepton_> Great
18:20 < lepton_> send me an email and I'll get it going when I get back home
18:20 < lepton_> I'm currently on a laptop at a coffee shop
18:20 < lepton_> Most of my stuff is electrical or mechanical engineering related, which lots of focus on motor design and embedded electronics
18:21 < lepton_> a fair amount of machining and nootropic related stuff, too
18:21 < lepton_> and then a long long tail of misc
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18:24 < lepton_> got it, I'll start upload this evening
18:24 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
18:25 < lepton_> Howdy
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18:30 < lepton_> kanzure: what sort of work and development (in physical space) do you see as being highest priority for skdb for now?
18:30 < kanzure> simple packages that demonstrate the concept
18:31 < kanzure> so i've been playing around with a laser cutter for lab-on-a-chip microfluidics
18:33 < kanzure> another high priority is fixing the name :(
18:33 < lepton_> part-get?
18:33 < lepton_> instead of apt-get :p
18:33 < lepton_> thing-get
18:33 < kanzure> "tangible get" was proposed a while back
18:33 < lepton_> hmm
18:33 < lepton_> tangi-get
18:33 < kanzure> but smari took it for his own implementation or something
18:34 < kanzure> weird social dynamic things going on there
18:34 < kanzure> http://tangibleget.com/
18:34 < kanzure> i was thinking of using a name like "tangible kit" then ;)
18:34 < kanzure> oh
18:34 < kanzure> http://tangiblebit.com/
18:34 < kanzure> sorry, it was tangible bit
18:34 < lepton_> ahh
18:35 < kanzure> i was thinking tangible bit -> tangible git -> tangible get
18:35 < lepton_> That just reminds me of the "atoms are the new bits" arguments of last year
18:35 < kanzure> i wish :/ people are infatuated with their bits (and no i don't mean drill bits)
18:35 < lepton_> haha
18:36 < lepton_> Back to simple examples, can you give an example of the workflow for someone who wants to reproduce a package
18:36 < lepton_> Let's say I've got a laser cutter and want to make a microfluidics part/assembly
18:37 < kanzure> well ideally, the user just types "make blah"
18:37 < kanzure> in high automation facilities you can imagine this then configuring cnc equipment and other automation tools
18:37 < kanzure> but for now we just have poor humans
18:38 < kanzure> so the concept has been to use templated instruction sets
18:38 < kanzure> i.e. like templates in web design if you're familiar with that
18:38 < kanzure> and then just string them together via some software
18:38 < kanzure> instead of machine instructions, it's human instructions
18:39 < QuantumG> you mean slavery!
18:39 < kanzure> yes
18:39 < kanzure> i enslave my human body
18:39 < QuantumG> :)
18:40 < JayDugger> Heh, heh...and once you've human instructions, you can wade into the morass of business processes.
18:40 < lepton_> Hmm, seems reminiscent of GPS, or fast-food computer systems that give in-ear instructions to workers. In both cases the software is trying to guide to the human such that the human doesn't have to think at all
18:40 < kanzure> welll
18:40 < kanzure> i have this simple system i can demo.. one sec
18:40 < kanzure> this is a distributed sms-based system for instructions
18:40 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org:8091/projector/projects/
18:40 < kanzure> do *not* press "RUN" anywhere
18:40 < kanzure> it really sends out text messages
18:40 < QuantumG> <kanzure> i enslave my human body   <- yes, it really looks like that's the situation from where I'm sitting ;)
18:41 < kanzure> there are dependencies on tasks, and stuff
18:41 < kanzure> so users have to text back "ok i'm done" (well, right now just "ok" and "okay")
18:41 < lepton_> Yeap, I like the idea of project projector a lot. I think some of the burning man groups around here could make use of something like that very well
18:41 < lepton_> since a lot of them are working on big distruted projects
18:42 < kanzure> oh i mentioned it yesterday. oops. i'm really not that proud of it, because i doubt anyone will use it
18:42 < kanzure> i.e. why not just follow the instructions yourself ;)
18:42 < JayDugger> kanzure, you might  build in a market where humans could bid on doing those human instructions. :)
18:42 < lepton_> ...yeah, it seems more like a system for project management than a system for automating people's work
18:42 < kanzure> JayDugger: you mean Amazon Mechanical Turk?
18:42 < lepton_> ^cool idea
18:43 < JayDugger> More broadly, but yes. Shame it's been invented. <Duh EMOTICON HERE>
18:43 < lepton_> It could be more physical than Mechanial turk. If it was popular enough on a local level you could get folks to come by and actually perform physical tasks
18:43 < kanzure> one of the ideas i got hooked up on for a while was doing some sort of language that could be converted into gcode as well as human instructions
18:43 < lepton_> But that sort of thing needs a critical mass of people
18:44 < kanzure> but not everyone can do programming like that ;)
18:44 < JayDugger> Foursquare's new (what jobs are here?)
18:44 < lepton_> but then what kind of gcode
18:44 < lepton_> because gcode is so not a stanard
18:44 < lepton_> at least that's what I've been learning this year
18:44 < kanzure> yeah, i agree, i was using that as a general token i guess
18:44 < lepton_> most CNC machines need machine / brand specific gcode post processors
18:44 < kanzure> i mean to say the general idea of generating control instructions
18:44 < JayDugger> Gcode:machines::choreography:humans??
18:44 < kanzure> for a variety of different equipment
18:44 < lepton_> It's kinda like modbus, another non-standard standard I've had to work with
18:45 < lepton_> I've been using openSBP, which is a g-code similar language developed and open sourced by the company shopbot (you're probably familier, they're a commerical product similar to mechmate)
18:45 < kanzure> yeah, ted whoever-it-is-that-runs-shopbot hangs out on openmanufacturing
18:46 < lepton_> I've noticed that
18:46 < lepton_> I wish his employees were as cool as he is :/
18:46 < lepton_> I've had a less than great experience working with their tech's to develop a post processor so non-vetric software
18:46 < lepton_> but all ended well, so I shouldn't complain
18:47 < lepton_> Anyway, it seems to me that trying to develop skdb with a focus on open hardware manufacturing systems like the rep-rap or makerbot, or perhaps just open control software like EMC2, avoids the issue of dealing with an overwhelming number of propritary systems
18:48 < kanzure> yes
18:48 < kanzure> i want to get skdb hooked up with a reprap or makerbot
18:48 < kanzure> in particular, i recently imported thingiverse.com into skdb package form
18:48 < kanzure> er, well, almost
18:48 < kanzure> they are partial packages or stub packages
18:48 < kanzure> because they don't have instructions with them
18:48 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/thingiverse/thingiverse_packages/
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18:49 < kanzure> hi quantumkat 
18:50 < lepton_> If it plays well with EMC2 that opens it up to a lot of potential machines
18:51 < lepton_> Since you can use EMC2 to run just about anything
18:54 < lepton_> An interesting demo example would be using skdb to download the relavent files / instruct the user with material dependancies to make a makerbot or reprap make parts for itself
18:54 < lepton_> That makes it immediately relavent and attainable for anyone with a reprap/makerbot
18:56 < kanzure> fenn: how's your makerbot coming along
19:11 < lepton_> alright folks, I'm heading back home
19:11 < lepton_> will upload papers when I get there
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19:15 < JayDugger> Wasn't fenn building a reprap?
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19:20 -!- heath is now known as ybit
19:21 < ybit> what's katsmeow's email?
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20:11 < lepton_> Presently uploading to designfiles.org at the smoking hot speeds of 16 KB/S
20:13 -!- Incarnation [~lorem@66.51.248.231] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:18 < kanzure> lepton_: upload speeds suck. download is ok though :/
20:21 -!- clemux [clemux@lysine.clemux.info] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:22 < lepton_> my up limit here is pretty slow, too
20:25 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-57-16-175.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20:26  * kanzure messes with facebook app fbml bullshit :/
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20:45 < lepton_> kanzure: Do you know if the SMESH and GEOM directories have changed in the pythonOCC SVN? I'm trying to follow John's ubuntu 10.04 compile process, but it seems like the SVN CO I did doesn't match what he's refering to from a few days ago
20:45 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@elphelut.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:46  * kanzure is showing off http://pinkarmy.org/ in #startups at the moment
20:46 < kanzure> heh i was at john's house last night for a crawfish boil
20:46 < kanzure> i haven't compiled SMESH or GEOM, ever- or maybe just once- but in general i avoid them
20:46 < kanzure> you can always do svn co -r revision_id_here i guess
20:47 < kanzure> for the actual technical deets, see http://pinkarmy.org/images/Pink_Army_Cooperative.pdf (page 14 especially)
20:47 < kanzure> and http://pinkarmy.org/pa_factsheet.pdf
20:48 < lepton_> Pink Army looks like a pretty great project
20:48 < kanzure> :)
20:48 < lepton_> Sadly GEOM is critical to what I"m doing
20:48 < lepton_> I don't think I care about SMESH all that much at the moment
20:48 < kanzure> i'm supposed to be coding up some of the software behind PA one of these days (oops)
20:48 < kanzure> what does GEOM have in it?
20:48 < lepton_> I believe it's necessary for PAF?
20:48 < kanzure> ah
20:49 < lepton_> And PAF is the central piece of my optimization work
20:49 < kanzure> i have a fresh installation of ubuntu around here somewhere, i'll whip up some instructions 
20:49 < kanzure> but i'm not sure if that will be today or tomorrow
20:49 < kanzure> hmm decisions decisions.. uh..
20:50 < lepton_> Well, if you think it would be easy for you to accomplish, that could be great
20:50 < kanzure> sure i can take a crack at it
20:50 < lepton_> I think what we really need is a step by step guide for Ubuntu 10.04
20:50 < kanzure> pythonocc is a pig to work with, you need a firm hand
20:50 < lepton_> That would help people like Marcos, too
20:50 < kanzure> ideally a .deb is needed
20:50 < lepton_> He and I seem to be in a similar position
20:50 < lepton_> indeed
20:51 < lepton_> Who was it that put together the deb package recently (the one that doesn't include GEOM or SMESH)?
20:51 < kanzure> lepton_: Marcos Elgueta Soulat?
20:51 < kanzure> i think thomas did one?
20:51 < kanzure> Marcos seems to be in my database. must be him then http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt
20:51 < lepton_> Yeap, that Marcos
20:51 < lepton_> The one who's posted a fair bit on the PythonOCC list recently
20:52 < lepton_> The Aerospace engineering student
20:52 < kanzure> wing optimization stuff
20:52 < kanzure> yeah
20:52 < lepton_> Yeah
20:52 < lepton_> He seems to be having a lot of trouble getting GEOM compiled and working, too
20:53 < lepton_> I've been reading through the list archives, but it's hard to figure out how much progress he actually make
20:53 < lepton_> I'm under the impression that he's still not functional
20:53 < lepton_> Nor am I
20:53 < lepton_> with PAF
20:53 < kanzure> thomas did a youtube video upload showing off some PAF features
20:53 < kanzure> it was pretty neat :)
20:53 < lepton_> yeap, I've seen it
20:54 < kanzure> ok, so i'll do this tomorrow
20:54 < lepton_> I've actually even gotten that demo working in OpenSuse using some existing packages
20:54 < kanzure> if you want to make sure that it actually happens, i highly recommend you bug me over the phone tomorrow at some point
20:54 < kanzure> otherwise i might forget :P
20:54 < lepton_> but everything else I do is in a debian environment, so I'd be really happy to forget about OpenSuse altogether for now
20:54 < lepton_> Okay, if you've asked for it I'll buy you tomorrow :)
20:54 < kanzure> buy me huh?
20:54 < lepton_> bug*
20:54 < kanzure> heh
20:55 < lepton_> meh, it must be getting late
20:55 < kanzure> btw if opensuse has packages, the 'alien' tool might be able to convert them
20:55 < lepton_> I tried
20:55 < lepton_> unsuccessfully
20:55 < kanzure> lovely
20:55 < lepton_> I don't think I still have the logs of the problem, though
20:55 < lepton_> YMMV
20:56 < lepton_> If I can get PAF up, I should be fairly home-free in happy Pythonic scripting land
20:56 < lepton_> Then I can start doing so actual engineering!
20:56 < lepton_> some*
20:58 < kanzure> i'm doing a presentation in austin, tx in late june on pythonocc, btw
20:58 < kanzure> at scipy2010
20:58 < lepton_> Yeah, Jelle mentioned that on the pythonOCC list
20:58 < kanzure> you should show up and check out my machine shop.. thing.
20:58 < lepton_> Austin hackerspace?
20:58 < kanzure> yes
20:58 < lepton_> I'd actually be rather interested
20:58 < lepton_> The question is time
20:59 < kanzure> i know how you feel
20:59 < kanzure> i'm actually doing two presentations at scipy2010
20:59 < kanzure> and two papers O_o
20:59 < lepton_> We've got some conferences that our Scuba equipment will be showing at around that time, too
20:59 < lepton_> What on?
20:59 < kanzure> the other one is on datapkg, basically apt-get for scientific data
20:59 < kanzure> http://okfn.org/datapkg
21:00 < kanzure> and while i'm at it, there's another presentation upcoming on june 12th/13th in boston at h+ summit 2010
21:00 < kanzure> http://hplussummit.com/speakers.html
21:01 < lepton_> I might have to send an emissary to that one
21:01 < lepton_> I've got some good friends in Boston
21:01 < lepton_> This will actually be the first year of the past six that I won't be visiting Boston in the summer
21:01 < lepton_> Nice line up of speakers
21:02 < kanzure> yeah.. we even have the chuck e. cheese's guy.
21:02 < lepton_> Congrats on being on the same pages as Kurzweil, Wolfram and Aubrey de Grey
21:02 < kanzure> they are amateurs
21:02 < kanzure> ahaha
21:02 < kanzure> i'm messed up.
21:09 < drazak> kanzure: who put together http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ/Equipment#Chemicals_and_Reagents_are_expensive.__How_can_I_make_my_own.3F__What_can_I_substitute.3F
21:09 < kanzure> probably jonathan cline
21:10 < drazak> they use my posts like 4 times
21:10 < kanzure> heh
21:10 < drazak> I dunno how I feel about that
21:10 < drazak> I don't know how good of a reference I am :P
21:10 < kanzure> i'm primarily responsible for this: 
21:10 < kanzure> http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F
21:11 < kanzure> lepton_: you should click^
21:12 < lepton_> :clicks:
21:12 < lepton_> I've actually seen a few of those articles before
21:13 < kanzure> a few of them are about me/us in here :D
21:15 < lepton_> yay, first directory is just about to finish upping to designfiles.org
21:15 < lepton_> Only like 10 gigs to go to do a complete up 0_o
21:15 < kanzure> i could just uh, snailmail you a hard drive
21:16 < lepton_> You threw out the topic of nootropics earlier today, so perhaps that's next
21:16 < lepton_> Yeah, it's possibly more time efficient
21:16 < lepton_> Through I'd send it on a flash stick
21:16 < lepton_> That's more volumetriclly efficient
21:16 < lepton_> oh how my IRC client needs spell check...
21:17 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/papers/longevity/ might be particularly interesting
21:18 < lepton_> I'll up my resveratrol directory after piracetam is done, that has some good longevity relavence
21:18 < kanzure> nice.
21:18 < lepton_> Though I'm really not a biologist
21:18 < kanzure> neither are the biologists?
21:19 < kanzure> anyway, it's time for me to go crash and act like my body is still capable of sleep
21:19 < lepton_> Yeah, I'm heading to that point, too
21:19 < lepton_> You central time zone?
21:19 < kanzure> yes
21:19 < lepton_> We're mountain, of course
21:19 < kanzure> "a mile closer to the stars"
21:19 < lepton_> More like 1.2 miles
21:20 < lepton_> :p
21:20 < kanzure> time to rig up a few lasers to calculate the exact elevation, my friend
21:20 < lepton_> well, probably 1.1 at my house
21:20 < lepton_> I'll just ask my phone
21:20 < kanzure> that's +/- 10ft at best
21:20 < lepton_> it knows the elevation of the cell towers, and can triangulate from there
21:20 < lepton_> True, true
21:20 < lepton_> my roommate does laser measurement of mirrors for the James Webb Space Telescope
21:21 < lepton_> He has good measurement equipment
21:22 < kanzure> night
21:22 < lepton_> Goodnight
21:32 < genehacker> holy shit we can make Taq
21:38 < lepton_> as in the polymerase?
21:39 < genehacker> yeah
21:39 < genehacker> as in polymerase
21:41 < lepton_> researching - seems useful for a lot of processes
21:41 < genehacker> exactly...
21:42 < lepton_> how difficult is it to make?
21:42 < genehacker> now if we could make some restriction enzymes
21:42 < genehacker> http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ/Equipment#Chemicals_and_Reagents_are_expensive.__How_can_I_make_my_own.3F__What_can_I_substitute.3F
21:42 < genehacker> see for yourself
21:42 < lepton_> How are you physically making this? To what extent is it automated?
21:43 < genehacker> I'm not
21:43 < genehacker> it can be automated
21:43 < lepton_> I'm generally curious about what DIY Bio people are using for hardware
21:44 < genehacker> ask one of the few people doing diybio
21:44 < lepton_> At a previous job I was doing electronics / controls development for an automated chemical mixing system
21:44 < genehacker> a syringe bot thingie?
21:44 < lepton_> Yeah
21:44 < lepton_> I wonder how much that sort of stuff gets used, versus manual procedures
21:45 < genehacker> quick question, could one potentially make any chemical compound if it had access to raw materials, catalysts, seperaters, heaters and such?
21:45 < genehacker> not much in diybio
21:46 < genehacker> or I don't think anyone at all who does diybio does
21:46 < genehacker> there aren't many people doing diybio
21:46 < lepton_> I think it's well within the scope of arduino's and makerbots
21:46 < genehacker> at the very most there are probably 20 last time I checked
21:46 < lepton_> The hardware needs are pretty simple to do a lot of automated chemistry
21:46 < genehacker> how accurate do those machiens have to be?
21:46 < lepton_> hmm
21:47 < genehacker> any problems with the machine contaminating the samples?
21:47 < genehacker> what are those machines used for in industry?
21:47 < lepton_> The physical accuracy largely depends on syringe pump design/selection, and motors and gearing
21:47 < lepton_> At my previous job it was being researched as a means of optmizing water treatment plant chemical dosage
21:48 < genehacker> well how accurate do they need to be? centimeters? millimeters? mililiters
21:48 < genehacker> how?
21:48 < genehacker> figure out how much chemical it takes to kill x% bacteria?
21:49 < lepton_> bah, computer problems
21:50 < lepton_> The system I worked on did image analysis on flocculating particles that formed because of van-der-vaal force based coagulation
21:50 < genehacker> oh neat found a paper describing exactly what you were doing
21:51 < lepton_> oh really?
21:51 < lepton_> link?
21:51 < genehacker> yeah on removing heavy metals from anaerobic sludge or something
21:51 < genehacker> www.bvsde.paho.org/bvsaidis/mexico26/iii-021.pdf
21:51 < lepton_> yeah, it's done in sludge processes, too
21:51 < lepton_> our stuff was drinking water focused
21:52 < genehacker> image analysis now that's pretty cool
21:52 < lepton_> and didn't go all that far, failed startup company. I'd be interested in re-implementing it as an open hardware project
21:52 < lepton_> yeah, we used OpenCV for image processing
21:52 < lepton_> Worked out very well
21:52 < genehacker> so the camera looked at the samples to see if they were different colors to see if it was one thing or a another or measured the different degrees of floculation
21:53 < lepton_> I had to develop an improve volume estimage singe we were using a single camera and had to estimate volume of translucent particles from 2D images
21:53 < genehacker> to a degree then
21:53 < genehacker> neat
21:53 < genehacker> jeez I didn't even know it was possible to do that with something as simple as a camera
21:54 < lepton_> We started off with USB webcams, but ended up doing a PCB with a 5 megapixel Micron/Aptina CMOS sensor
21:55 < genehacker> so usb webcams aren't good enough or were cheaper?
21:55 < lepton_> Ran it all on an embedded linux board, the Gumstix Overo (which is basically just an OMAP 3530 ARM processor)
21:55 < genehacker> on gumstix too?
21:55 < lepton_> yeah, trying to do it on USB on a propritary logitech webcam wasn't very consistent
21:56 < lepton_> the device needed to operate for months at a time, and it would drop out
21:56 < lepton_> but that was only a temporary fix anyway because we had delays in getting the CMOS sensor we wanted in the first place
21:56 < lepton_> so we got a driver working for that and all was pretty well
21:57 < genehacker> but it would work consistent enough?
21:57 < lepton_> We did processing on the image at about 10 FPS at 1480x1080 or something aroudn that
21:57 < lepton_> The USB webcams were never very good (we used the logitech quickcam 9000)
21:57 < lepton_> but the CMOS sensor was perfectly reliable
21:57 < genehacker> what needed to be done to make it consistent, adjust the white balance or what not?
21:57 < kanzure> http://www.stereopsis.com/flux/
21:57 < lepton_> The image analsis itself, or the hardware communication?
21:58 < genehacker> so the hardware communication was harder with webcams?
21:58 < lepton_> Byran, that's awesome
21:58 < lepton_> aren't you supposed to be sleeping?
21:58 < kanzure> uhh uhhhh
21:58 < kanzure> this is bryan's uh
21:58 < kanzure> fuck.
21:58 < genehacker> that software assist with sleeping
21:59  * kanzure hides
21:59 < lepton_> yeah, comm dropped out with irregularity on the usb systems. the CMOS sensor connected via a 12 (I think) bit parallel interface to the ARM processor
21:59 < genehacker> oh don't worry about kanzure it's just his clone or he's sleep typing again
22:00 < genehacker> so what about if the webcam was connected to just a laptop would you have that problem?
22:01 < lepton_> Hmm, I don't think we actually tried running it for days at a time on a regular x86 computer with a desktop operating system
22:01 < lepton_> that probably would have been a good idea for debugging
22:01 < genehacker> well I don't think I'll be running it days at a time...
22:01 < lepton_> But we ultimately wanted a sensor on our PCB
22:01 < lepton_> the USB stuff was just a dev workaround while we waited for hardware
22:02 < lepton_> What are you doing?
22:02 < genehacker> nothing, mainly considering giving reprap pick and place capability
22:02 < genehacker> also making Taq
22:02 < genehacker> but that doesn't require a webcam
22:02 < lepton_> oh I'm really interested in doing machine vision for pick and place
22:03 < genehacker> really?
22:03 < lepton_> and doing it with OpenCV like that other project
22:03 < lepton_> Oh yeah! I've talked about it on numerous occasion
22:03 < genehacker> well if you want, want to make a pick and place head for reprap?
22:03 < lepton_> Because pick and place is one of our biggest needs, AND we have a CNC that could do it
22:03 < lepton_> but we don't have control
22:03 < genehacker> that's the main problem
22:03 < lepton_> sure, I'd be in to that
22:03 < lepton_> I even saved a few links on how to do it a while back
22:03 < lepton_> though suction
22:04 < genehacker> yup
22:04 < lepton_> we just need time / money to do that
22:04 < lepton_> unfortunately I haven't had a pay check in about 9 months
22:04 < genehacker> I have a tool head design for one, except I need to modify it to accomodate a camera
22:04 < genehacker> well I'll I need is software that can recognize where an arbitrary component is with a camera
22:04 < lepton_> Well, I can CNC things to try out if you have cad files
22:05 < lepton_> You can do that very easily with openCV
22:05 < lepton_> I could definetly provide guidance
22:05 < genehacker> any arbitrary component?
22:05 < genehacker> as in part number, part shape?
22:05 < lepton_> well, define arbitary
22:05 < lepton_> if you have a part number on the part, and a database / BOM to reference, that goes a long way
22:06 < genehacker> electronic components have standard numbering and part shapes
22:06 < lepton_> but there's so much variation in packaging
22:06 < lepton_> even within a part
22:06 < lepton_> That's true, and not true
22:06 < lepton_> I mean, there are standards, but they're not strictly adheared to at all
22:06 < lepton_> We do a lot of by-hand building, and a fair amount of having board houses assemble for us
22:06 < genehacker> oh well then it's not required
22:06 < lepton_> and it's never a complete straight shot with packaging, there are usually weird variations
22:07 < genehacker> this just means one will have to place components in organized slots instead of unorganized ones
22:07 < lepton_> However, I think that if for each project an operator uses the pick and place machine's camera to take a reference picture of each piece, that tremendouly helps the situation for image recognition
22:07 < genehacker> so component position is all I really need
22:08 < lepton_> Yeah, and that's standard for circuit CAD post processors
22:08 < lepton_> I think that image recognition on the parts can help a good bit with placement, too
22:09 < genehacker> yeah as I said all I need is component position
22:09 < lepton_> I should get to sleep, too
22:09 < genehacker> sleep is for slackers!
22:10 < lepton_> umm... lucid dream research, then?
22:10 < genehacker> ok go ahead
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23:11 < fenn> openscad could theoretically use opencascade bindings to do stuff and export as step
23:13 < genehacker> use opencascade bindings to manipulate openscad code?
23:14 < genehacker> so we can actually have real smart dimensions?
23:14 < genehacker> if you do that, that would make you incredibly awesome
23:20 < fenn> tonight's project: http://fennetic.net/irc/nema17_nema14_adapter.jpg
23:20 < fenn> ugh. internet is fubared here
23:21 < genehacker> reprapping?
23:26 < fenn> kanzure: you asked how the reprap was coming: http://fennetic.net/irc/minimendel.jpg
23:26 < fenn> still need to do belts and electronics
23:26 < fenn> and make the extruder
23:26 < fenn> btw it's not a makerbot
23:26 < fenn> makerbots are the devil
23:38 < genehacker> I saw the original makerbot once, should I have driven a stake through it's extruder?
23:39 < genehacker> and yes they are evil
23:39 < fenn> i find closing my eyes to be more effective than changing the white balance of my monitor