--- Day changed Sat Jun 05 2010
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05:20 < fenn> interesting idea, pepakura repstrap http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?152,46623
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08:53 < kanzure> fenn: do you read the reprap forums frequently?
09:21 < fenn> never
09:22 < fenn> wiggle stereoscopy: http://www.stereomaker.net/sample/ani/ani_e.htm
09:22 < fenn> if it doesn't make sense, you are probably a robot
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09:53 < kanzure> http://openpcr.org/2010/06/why-we-built-openpcr/
09:55 < kanzure> i find it weird that tito is still trying to sell $200 pieces of acrylic
09:55 < kanzure> apparently less than 10 people have purchased his gel box
09:55 < kanzure> (no surprise there)
09:58 < kanzure> "corporate anthropology"
09:58 < kanzure> i've been looking over http://crisiscommons.org/ and http://oilreporter.org/
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10:27 < kanzure> hi Roy78
10:27 < kanzure> hi Yocttar 
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10:45 < Yocttar> Heya =)
10:46 < Yocttar> whats better nerd or geek? :D
10:46 < splicer> nerd... I don't understand the preoccupation with the fucking gelboxes
10:48 < Yocttar> what do you mean? which preoccupation?
10:50 < Yocttar> btw, realy thanks alot kanzure for referencing me over here, was looking for something of this "prison break" core idea kind :)
10:54 < Alystair> gelbox?
10:55 < splicer> it's the forever discussion on diybio
10:56  * Alystair should really join the mailing list
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11:00 < kanzure> Alystair: http://groups.google.com/group/diybio
11:18 < kanzure> re: biocurious: http://huff.to/crJuUh
11:18 < kanzure> which redirects to http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wires/2010/05/27/biocurious-the-bay-area-b_ws_592862.html
11:18 < kanzure> which is just a front for http://fora.tv/2010/05/23/BioCurious_The_Bay_Area_Biology_Collaborative_Lab_Space
11:18 < kanzure> gah i wish links didn't suck so much
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11:35 < Alystair> beat you to it
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12:20 < splicer> (looking at Titos mullet I wonder who the first with a mohawk will be)
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15:26 < kanzure> hello phyrk
15:26 < phryk> Hi there
15:26 < kanzure> what's up?
15:26 < phryk> Not much ybit told me to join ;P
15:27 < phryk> What exactly is hplusroadmap?
15:27 < ybit> !log
15:27 < ybit> hrm :)
15:28 < kanzure> hplusroadmap: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy on the internet. You must be cautious. 
15:28 < ybit> http://designfiles.org/irclogs.txt
15:29 < kanzure> this is the one that is kept updated: http://gnusha.org/irclogs.txt
15:29 < ybit> gracias
15:30 < phryk> kanzure: That kinda sounds like /b/...
15:33 < kanzure> http://letsfreckle.com/ sounds an awful lot like http://rescuetime.com/
15:33 < nsh> unicode ellipses look really stupid in fixed-width fonts
15:34 < kanzure> phryk: we focus on transhuman tech, singularities or accelerating trends, and uh
15:34 < kanzure> something else
15:36 < nsh> comfy chairs
15:36 < phryk> Ah nice
15:36 < phryk> Like Aubrey deGrey or whatever his name was?
15:37 < nsh> he's actually our telepresence hairbot
15:37 < kanzure> "Love the streamed sets because they don't interrupt your workflow. It's like being at a coding dance party; for hours."
15:37 < phryk> Okay^^
15:38 < kanzure> http://trancearoundtheworld.com/
15:38 < phryk> coding dance party sounds like some real fun
15:39 < phryk> Mh, not really my type of music
15:39 < phryk> Only stream i (seldomly) listen to is ... dead as i just had to witness now :/
15:40 < phryk> Poor uppercut radio :'(
15:42 < genehacker> anyone here buy stuff from mcmaster-carr?
15:43 < genehacker> oh shoot where's the streams?
15:47 < kanzure> genehacker: here's some different streams: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/music/url.txt
15:47 < kanzure> and stuff i've found that i like is listed here: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/music/
15:48 < kanzure> right now i'm on http://www.di.fm/mp3/vocaltrance.pls (doing some facebook app dev bullshit)
15:49 < genehacker> oh I thought you were at hplus
15:49 < kanzure> wait did i miss my flight?
15:49 < kanzure> i thought the event started on the 12th
15:49 < genehacker> I am having temporal awareness problems
15:50 < genehacker> anyway can I visit the space tomorrow
15:50 < kanzure> sure, do you need a ride?
15:51 < genehacker> yeah
15:51 < kanzure> alright
16:11 < phryk> You guys have a dedicated hackerspace?
16:12 < genehacker> #austinhackerspace for more info
16:13 < phryk> That's a creative name  :P
16:15 < phryk> Ooh
16:15 < phryk> splicer: We meet again :D
16:16 < phryk> All that stuff around transhumanism, diybio and biopunk seems to be pretty small currently^^
16:20 < kanzure> small?
16:21 < phryk> Yes.
16:21 < phryk> You keep running into the same people over different routes^^
16:22 < phryk> I meant the community
17:48 < Alystair> not many people realize change is necessary ;)
17:49 < phryk> Well for life, change is always necessary.
17:50 < phryk> Stagnation practically is death...
17:50 < phryk> Also, I'm going to sleep now ;P
17:50 < phryk> Good night ;)
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19:06 < kanzure>  /window 213
19:06 < kanzure> crap
19:06 < kanzure> second time today :(
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19:28 < genehacker> http://www.mother-of-robots.org/
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19:51 < jrayhawk> do you seriously have 213 windows open
19:52 < jrayhawk> that made steve laugh
19:53  * nsh wouldn't be at all surprised
19:54 < kanzure> jrayhawk: do you even know who i am?
19:54 < kanzure> jrayhawk: http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-01-15-tabs.png is common
19:55 < nsh> reminds me, have you done a bookmark dump lately?
19:55 < kanzure> my bookmark managers all crashed and refuse to work with me
19:55 < kanzure> so i don't use them any more
19:55 < kanzure> back to memorizing urls!
19:56 < nsh> ah
19:56 < nsh> let me know when you do a brain dump then :)
20:00  * kanzure fiddles around with http://jambool.com/ for "virtual currency"
20:11 < nsh> there any other kind?
20:11 < kanzure> what?
20:11 < nsh> any other kind of currency than virtual
20:11 < nsh> fiat 
20:11 < kanzure> no
20:12 < genehacker> sounds like you're making one of those facebook crack addiction simulations things...
20:12 < egeste> hello
20:13 < kanzure> genehacker: yep, that's exactly what i'm doing
20:13 < kanzure> hi egeste
20:13 < genehacker> with other people?
20:13 < kanzure> ?
20:13 < kanzure> what?
20:13 < nsh> was reading about lycurgus of sparta, who instituted a currency made of iron coins, dipped in vinegar to become brittle and intrinsically worthless
20:13 < genehacker> you said you were having a programming party earlier
20:13 < nsh> http://www.e-classics.com/lycurgus.htm
20:14 < nsh> to eliminate the desire to acrue wealth
20:14 < genehacker> well that would eliminate the inflation problem
20:14 < genehacker> unfortunately that would eliminate inflation
20:14  * nsh smiles
20:15 < nsh> yes lisa, crisotunity!
20:15 < kanzure> genehacker: no that was a quote that i copied-and-pasted
20:15 < kanzure> i'm doing the facebook app on my lonesome
20:15 < kanzure> just a learning experience
20:15 < kanzure> it will be demoed at h+ summit 2010 by andrew hessel,l though
20:15 < kanzure> presumably exxon is going to dump a few million into it.. but whatever
20:16 < kanzure> i don't expect that to actually happen
20:16 < genehacker> so it's something more useful than facecrack?
20:16 < nsh> app does what?
20:16  * nsh is considering writing a flashcard (recall aid) app for facebook
20:17 < nsh> or, more ambitiously, a collaborative rune goldberg machine construction game
20:17 < kanzure> it's a virtual currency on top of http://oilreporter.org/ and http://crisiscommons.org/ - an auction site for co2 fixation-related activities
20:18 < kanzure> nsh: fantastic contraption? :) or skdb? :D
20:18 < nsh> simulated :)
20:18 < kanzure> actually my 80/20 company might be interested in an app for collaborative 80/20 design bullshit
20:18 < kanzure> on facebook
20:18 < genehacker> so you can own virtual money that's as good as real money that you don't have to pay taxes on?
20:18 < kanzure> as a way to market it to engineers to get kiddos interested in actually building shit
20:18 < kanzure> genehacker: yep
20:18 < nsh> 80/20 company?
20:19 < kanzure> canadian oil companies have to pay $15/ton of CO2 in taxes
20:19 < genehacker> a cad application for facebook might be cool
20:19 < kanzure> nsh: structory.com-- basically it's a shopping cart frontend to skdb specifically for 80/20 modular beam components
20:19 < kanzure> genehacker: or totally lame
20:19 < nsh> oh
20:19 < genehacker> well it would be less lame than farmville
20:20 < genehacker> DESIGN A PNEUMATIC PROPORTIONAL VALVE AND GET 50 CAD COINS... 
20:20 < genehacker> or something like that
20:21 < nsh> invite your friends to debug your Skynet defence system
20:21 < genehacker> and use classic facebook app user enslavement practices, and soon you've crowd sourced design
20:21 < genehacker> exactly
20:22  * nsh needs to read some good studies of wikipedian social development
20:22 < nsh> there are critical developmental phases
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20:23 < nsh> steerage is all the more important for mechanical tower of babel
20:24 < jrayhawk> god your server is so slow
20:24 < jrayhawk> why aren't you using barthosting for that
20:24 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i should movei t somewhere
20:24 < kanzure> i have about 2 TB of bullshit on the server
20:24 < kanzure> can i just.. ship it to you?
20:24 < genehacker> time warner cable slow speed?
20:24 < jrayhawk> oh i might have to convince bart to do some upgrades, then. I think we only have a terabyte on there.
20:25 < kanzure> i can be convinced to only do a few hundred meg
20:25 < kanzure> ok convinced
20:25 < jrayhawk> I guess if you're willing to let me keep the drives, I can just shove 'em in the server.
20:25 < kanzure> my upload is terrible, that's why i've never moved it anywhere
20:25 < nsh> clone the disks
20:25 < kanzure> yeah i should.
20:25 < kanzure> blah
20:26 < kanzure> jrayhawk: can i use the gnusha.org virtual server for this
20:26 < genehacker> kanzure you wouldn't happen to know if the university has faster internet than you do?
20:26 < kanzure> the university definitely has faster internet than i have
20:26 < jrayhawk> Yeah, sure. Just let me know ahead of time if you seriously intend to fill up the 600GB we have available to you.
20:26 < genehacker> really?
20:26 < kanzure> jrayhawk: k
20:26 < kanzure> genehacker: yeah.. check out the speeds on designfiles.org
20:27 < jrayhawk> And yes, you can send me drives for me to deal with.
20:27 < genehacker> do you have wood and drills in the hacker space then?
20:27 < kanzure> lots of wood
20:27 < kanzure> lots and lots of wood
20:27 < kanzure> also lots of dust
20:27 < kanzure> but that's unrelated :)
20:27 < genehacker> I'm making an antenna mount then
20:27 < genehacker> dust is fine too
20:28 < genehacker> especially sawdust, we could try making a boat out of pykrete...
20:30 < jrayhawk> Kanzure: you've seen newsbeauter, right?
20:30 < jrayhawk> err newsbeuter
20:31 < kanzure> no.  /me checks
20:32 < jrayhawk> It is the mutt of RSS readers.
20:32 < kanzure> hm
20:32 < kanzure> i need an automatic rss download script thingy so that i don't have to actually use twitter
20:32 < kanzure> i.e. because they delete their contents after 24 hours or something
20:32 < jrayhawk> More optimally you should be using rss2email along with sup or notmuch
20:35 < kanzure> my inbox is a bullshit free zone
20:35 < kanzure> well, actually..
20:38 < jrayhawk> Well, that's why you use a sieve system to classify your mail into folders (if imap) or tags (if local storage)
20:39 < jrayhawk> I'm a little alarmed you don't do that already.
20:39 < kanzure> what?
20:40 < kanzure> i was making a witty comment
20:40 < jrayhawk> oh okay
20:40 < kanzure> i use tags and folders
20:40 < jrayhawk> tank goodness
20:40 < kanzure> my inbox is still 68,862 unread messages however
20:40 < jrayhawk> golly
20:41 < kanzure> however, according to the gmail.com interface my entire mail collectio nis 210,847
20:41 < kanzure> *collection is
20:41 < InkBlob> 68,000 unread? do you have a fan mailing list or something?
20:41 < kanzure> (also, i'm lagging today and am having rtouble typing)
20:41 < kanzure> considering 68k unread, and 210k total, i'd say that's pretty good
20:42 < InkBlob> i read every message sent to me. wuw kanzure.
20:42 < kanzure> jrayhawk: have you seen this? http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt
20:42 < kanzure> InkBlob: so do i. a lot of it is not personally addressed to me
20:43 < jrayhawk> yes, and i am very pleased about your religious documentation of having talked to BUTT_PORBLEMS
20:43 < InkBlob> ow
20:43 < kanzure> jrayhawk: you're welcome
20:43 < kanzure> InkBlob: you're also welcome to send me fan mail
20:43 < kanzure> you know, if you feel like it
20:44  * nsh offers to send a single peanut in an envelope
20:44 < kanzure> ?
20:44 < kanzure> are you calling me a nut
20:44 < kanzure> :P
20:44 < nsh> no, i just have a bunch of peanuts :)
20:44 < kanzure> then by all means
20:44 < nsh> more seriously though
20:44 < nsh> if you had a million SD cards
20:44 < nsh> say 2 gig
20:45 < nsh> and you could send them to a million people who would look at their contents
20:45 < nsh> what would you send?
20:45 < nsh> i might ask this on reddit or something
20:45 < genehacker> you should
20:45 < jrayhawk> goatse
20:45 < kanzure> a trojan?
20:45 < nsh> i wonder what a million SD cards costs at price
20:45 < kanzure> probably peanuts
20:45 < kanzure> speaking of which..
20:46  * nsh chews
20:46 < jrayhawk> do not chew on goatse that is gross you are gross
20:47 < nsh> hey, it's palliative chewing
20:47 < kanzure> i like how our first ideas were goatse and a trojan
20:49 < nsh> revealing
20:49 < nsh> damn, that last mouthful of peanuts tasted amazing
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20:57 < kanzure> hi GreydonSquare 
20:57 < kanzure> hi jumpboy11j 
20:58 < jumpboy11j> hi
20:58 < jumpboy11j> any discussion going on here?
20:58  * jumpboy11j doesnt want to interrupt any discussion that may be going on
20:58 < kanzure> only about world domination and cybernetics
20:58 < kanzure> what's up?
20:58 < GreydonSquare> Hey Kanzure, sorry i was over in #newmars
20:59 < jumpboy11j> eh not much
20:59 < GreydonSquare> i love both topics
20:59 < jumpboy11j> you?
20:59 < GreydonSquare> lol
20:59 < kanzure> ah, the mars society
20:59 < jumpboy11j> yeah
20:59 < GreydonSquare> yup
20:59 < jumpboy11j> although more New Mars than Mars Society
20:59 < jumpboy11j> even though NM is TMS forum
20:59 < kanzure> did you ever see openvirgle?
20:59 < kanzure> an open source go at the virgle project?
20:59 < jumpboy11j> no
21:00 < kanzure> http://openvirgle.net/
21:00 < kanzure> kinda related to http://openmanufacturing.org/
21:03 < kanzure> http://www.emcore.com/assets/photovoltaics/Paper_Navid_9-22-00.pdf
21:08 < kanzure> beep bloop
21:08 < jumpboy11j> doesn't look like we're talking about money anymore
21:09 < kanzure> fenn: how goes the goo squirter?
21:09 < jumpboy11j> how does resource allocation in the scientific sense sound?
21:09 < jumpboy11j> IE production and distribution but not money
21:10 < kanzure> you know, i really have too many irc channels open for me to split off conversations into yet another channel :)
21:10 < jumpboy11j> haha
21:11 < jumpboy11j> okay
21:11 < kanzure> but josh is welcome to come back in here :P
21:11 < jumpboy11j> haha
21:11 < jumpboy11j> so you're a transhumanist?
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21:11 < kanzure> yeah, sure
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21:12 < jumpboy11j> I might or might not call myself one
21:12 < kanzure> hi jasonwohlfahrt 
21:12 < jumpboy11j> except I'm not exactly sure what transhumanism is
21:12 < kanzure> basically it's the idea of augmenting, upgrading, and getting rid of your body (this is the minimal definition i guess)
21:12 < kanzure> well, not getting rid necessarily
21:13 < jumpboy11j> might be amalgated into a larger whole
21:13 < kanzure> primarily it's a movement of people who like to thin kabout the future and don't do much
21:13 < jumpboy11j> but that's inevitable with the progression of progress isnt it?
21:13 < genehacker> not necessarily
21:13 < jumpboy11j> how so?
21:14 < jumpboy11j> if technology keeps advancing, that is the clear next step
21:14 < kanzure> there's this concept of "recursive self-improvement" floating around, but nobody has nailed down a usable quantification of it
21:14 < genehacker> what if we develop nuclear bombs that anyone can make in their basement?
21:15 < jumpboy11j> well that would be antithetical to progress if they were used
21:15 < jumpboy11j> that's an existential threat
21:15 < genehacker> what scares me is someone releasing smallpox
21:15 < genehacker> north korea might have smallpox stocks
21:16 < jumpboy11j> anyone might
21:16 < lepton> All good reasons to spread civilization(s) beyond the earth
21:16 < jumpboy11j> hell I'm sure the US does
21:16 < jumpboy11j> yeah
21:16 < kanzure> lepton: nobody understands that :(
21:16 < genehacker> the US does
21:16 < lepton> I'm excited for SpaceX this week
21:16 < jumpboy11j> they launched already
21:16 < lepton> I've got a friend working with them
21:16 < genehacker> me too
21:16 < lepton> Successfully got into orbit
21:16 < kanzure> lepto	i'd be interested in figuring out a way to convince people that we need to engineer reliability into our civilization
21:16 < genehacker> we really do need to expand beyond earth
21:16 < jumpboy11j> definitely
21:17 < genehacker> first define reliability
21:17 < genehacker> certainly you don't mean a factor we use when figuring out how long a part will last
21:17 < kanzure> there's a lot of quantifications of reliability
21:17 < kanzure> look into reliability theory
21:17 < kanzure> hell even the basic saying "don't put all of your eggs in one basket"
21:18 < lepton> Recently I've been trying to appreal the techo-utopian idealism of the 50's that a lot of people have in mind
21:18 < genehacker> that's redundancy
21:18 < lepton> reminding them that finding the prospect of space travel as silly is a recent social developtment
21:18 < kanzure> yes redundancy is one part of reliability
21:18 < jumpboy11j> also simplicity
21:18 < kanzure> yep
21:18 < jumpboy11j> but my question is still
21:19 < genehacker> somethings cannot be simplified
21:19 < kanzure> there are four main points as i see it: redundancy, simplicity, transparency, and uh
21:19 < kanzure> crap why do i always forget the other one?
21:19 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_point_of_failure
21:19 < kanzure> diversity :)
21:19 < jumpboy11j> aren't simplicity and diversity antithetical to some extent?
21:20 < kanzure> well, there's simplicity in certain forms of emergence
21:20 < genehacker> heh where's that ghost in the shell quote about diversity...
21:20 < kanzure> whereas under neath that layer of emergence (or "emergent order") there's actually really complex things happening
21:20 < lepton> A fractal is a good example of both simplicity and diversity
21:21 < lepton> a mandelbrot of such
21:21 -!- jasonwohlfahrt [~chatzilla@cpe-67-11-208-33.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:21 < genehacker> "If we all reacted the same way, we'd be predictable, and there's always more than one way to view a situation. What's true for the group is also true for the individual. It's simple: overspecialize, and you breed in weakness. It's slow death."
21:21 < genehacker> ah that one
21:22 < jumpboy11j> still
21:22 < kanzure> lepton: do you know about the seasteading insitute?
21:22 < kanzure> *institute
21:22 < jumpboy11j> how is transition different from any other form of futurism or progress
21:22 < jumpboy11j> or even consumerism?
21:22 < kanzure> what?
21:22 < kanzure> "how is transition" ? what is "transition"?
21:23 < jumpboy11j> sorry
21:23 < jumpboy11j> its late
21:23 < jumpboy11j> transhumanism
21:23 < genehacker> this is sounding like philosophy
21:23 < kanzure> EROR ABORT
21:23 < jumpboy11j> I just want to get a handle on what transhumanism is
21:23 < kanzure> ERROR
21:23 < kanzure> god damn it
21:23 < kanzure> jumpboy11j: http://heybryan.org/transhumanism_def.html read the part in green at the top maybe :)"
21:23 < kanzure> without the quote mark blah
21:24 < jumpboy11j> thanks
21:24 < lepton> Yeah, I know of seasteading
21:24 < lepton> I like the idea
21:24 < InkBlob> discuss most humanly possible way to extend your lifespan with today's tehnology.
21:24 < lepton> I like it most in the asteroid belt
21:24 < InkBlob> cell printing?
21:25 < jumpboy11j> does uploading onto a computer count?
21:25 < kanzure> InkBlob: did you read the papers yet?
21:25 < InkBlob> i didn't know it existed.
21:25 < jumpboy11j> well not yet
21:25 < kanzure> lepton: i think that petri friedman's idea is nice and all.. i like the idea of letting a thousand flowers bloom for different ways of doing civilization
21:25 < kanzure> and having a "civilization seed" lets that happen :)
21:25 < kanzure> lepton: more on that is here: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/e4c375acce772250
21:26 < kanzure> jumpboy11j: btw, the papers that i just mentioned to InkBlob are over here: http://designfiles.org/papers/longevity/
21:26 < InkBlob> no kanzure not yet, but i will definetly go knee deep into it. right now, i'm trying to make cash.
21:27 < InkBlob> yup that link is in my list.
21:27 < kanzure> InkBlob: if i were you, i would focus on the blood-based stem cell therapies for longevity research
21:27 < nsh> don't try and make cash, for that is impossible, only try to realise the truth, that there is no cash
21:27 < kanzure> i.e. blood-based therapies i mean
21:27 < InkBlob> yes, stem cell therapy. i thought that was the most plausible topic.
21:27 < kanzure> nsh: :)
21:27 < InkBlob> blood based. got it.
21:28 < kanzure> nsh: actually i've kind of always imagined you looking like that bald kid
21:28 < InkBlob> is there anyother kind though? 
21:28  * nsh smiles
21:28  * kanzure steals nsh's spoon
21:29 < nsh> aerosol stem-cell therapy would be interesting
21:29 < kanzure> good thing it doesn't exist huh
21:29 < nsh> uite
21:29 < nsh> *quite
21:29 < kanzure> some jerkwads were selling oxytocin sprays a while back
21:29 < kanzure> i don't recall any studies on the efficacy though
21:29 < genehacker> well oxytocin microdarts would be more interesting
21:29 < kanzure> oxytocin ninja darts
21:29 < kanzure> gene ninjas!
21:30 < InkBlob> spraying over the vody regenerative cells i read about that. it was amazing. is it even possible?
21:30 < InkBlob> kewl
21:30 < genehacker> if you make the dart thin enough they won't ever notice
21:30 < InkBlob> v=b
21:30 < kanzure> velocity equals the drag due to wind resistence? wut?
21:30 < kanzure> oh typo
21:30 < InkBlob> no way. i got a strand of hair in my skin once and it hurt.
21:31 < kanzure> lepton: obviously i meant to say patri friedman, not petri :)
21:31 < kanzure> i was thinking of mr. petri dish i guess
21:32 < genehacker> well then have someone accidently bump into your target with an umbrella
21:32 < lepton> ha, I didn't even notice, actually
21:33 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov
21:33 < kanzure> it was eating away at my soul
21:33 < kanzure> egeste: are you at the space right now, and do you have documentation?
21:33 < splicer> a problem with stem cell therapy is that one wants to regenerate as many cells that die... how does one regulate that? 
21:33 < splicer> as die
21:33 < kanzure> splicer: there are certain genetic pathways that you want to trigger and manipuolate
21:33 < kanzure> before the cells die
21:33 < kanzure> *manipulate
21:34 < splicer> yeah... if they're bot already gone 
21:34  * nsh thought of petri dishes earlier when he saw the bacterial colonies growing in the wok in his (shared with 11 ablutophobic flatmates) kitchen sink
21:34 < nsh> (ablution: washing shit)
21:34 < genehacker> nsh are they glowing?
21:34 < kanzure> i'm going to paste some stuff on aging, hope nobody hates me for the flood
21:34 < kanzure> Ageing works like this:
21:34 < kanzure> 1)  Electrons leak from mitochondrial Complexes I & III forming superoxide anion.
21:34 < kanzure> 2) The increasing rate of leakage and the further breakdown of mitochondrial components with time under the superoxide (...and peroxynitrite & peroxide) onslaught is strongly determined by genetically controlled factors:
21:34 < genehacker> you aren't supposed to wash woks
21:34 < nsh> genehacker, haven't checked
21:34 < kanzure> i.e., the structure of mitochondrial proteins and membranes. Hence leakage is species-specific.
21:35 < kanzure> The net effect is that leakage is a mostly monotonically increasing function of time.
21:35 < kanzure> 3)   While the charged Superoxide Anion does not escape to the cytoplasm easily from the mitochondrial outer membrane...
21:35 < kanzure> 4)   Mitochondrial Superoxide Dismutase (SOD) converts Superoxide Anion into Hydrogen Peroxide.
21:35 < kanzure> 5)   H2O2 is neutral and easily diffuses through the mitochondrial outer membrane, entering the cytoplasm.
21:35 < kanzure> 6)   In the cytoplasm, peroxide prompts protein kinase C variants (incl.epsilon) to upregulate cytoplasmic NOX.
21:35 < kanzure> NOX outputs O2-; and eventually via cytoplasmic SOD, H2O2; acting as a high-gain peroxide amplifier.
21:35 < kanzure> THIS IS AGE-LINKED, ENDOGENOUS CHRONIC OXIDATIVE STRESS.
21:35 < kanzure> 7)   H2O2 is an important signalling molecule in stress signal transduction; such transduction is ramped up.
21:35 < kanzure> The MAPK/ERK cascade is overactivated.
21:35 < kanzure> The key stress transcription factors NF-kappaB; AP1 etc are constitutively upregulated.
21:35 < kanzure> Angiotensin2 is upregulated. The PI3K-Akt signalling cascade is chronically activated.
21:35 < kanzure> The transcription factors FOXO3A (and other FOXOs) are phosphorylated by Akt and translocated from the nucleus.
21:35 < kanzure> Bad is similarly phosphorylated. mTOR is 'non-phosphorylatively' activated by Akt.
21:35 < kanzure> Note that FOXOs, Bad, mTOR are downstream of PI3K. SIRT1 & klotho are upstream.
21:35 < kanzure> 8)   These factors upregulate the transcription of cytokines and a whole range of stress molecules; unleash a chronic cytokine onslaught on the cell & tissues.
21:35 < kanzure> A number of runaway positive feedback loop including TLRs and RAGE is ensured.
21:35 < kanzure> 9)   Under the signalling from the transcribed products, massive tissue remodelling and physiological change at the cell, tissue system & organism level is enforced.
21:35 < kanzure> Both Hypertrophic & Degenerative signalling abound.
21:35 < kanzure> 10) ...and checkpoints are disabled promoting oncogenesis;apoptosis is aberrant
21:35 < kanzure> 11) ...and stem cell niche failure - either through complete abrogation; or through enforced quiescence is the norm.
21:36 < kanzure> 12) ...and mitochondrial biogeneisis is abrogated, OXPHOS is downregulated
21:36 < kanzure> 13)...and cell senescence is upregulated, in part through p38MAPK 
21:36 < genehacker> I thought there were some findings that made oxidative stress theory look bad
21:37 < genehacker> would reengineering our mitochondria help us live longer?
21:37 < kanzure> aubrey wanted to move the mitochondrial genes over into the nuclear genome, but i don't remember why
21:37 < genehacker> like replace our mitochondria with mitchondria from stuff that lives really long?
21:37 < kanzure> anyway, oxidative stress is definitely not the only reason your body dies
21:38 < genehacker> genes in the mitochondria might mutate more?
21:38 < splicer> kanzure: those patways are instant.... adding the stem cells isn't  
21:38 < nsh> i ever tell you that story about Henry Ford?
21:39 < genehacker> apply mass production to what nsh?
21:39 < nsh> Henry Ford calls in his top engineers one day and says "I want you to go out to all the scrapyards in the area, and find all the ford cars, and get me a list of all the parts that have worn the least in those cars"
21:39 < nsh> the engineers go out and do this, thinking maybe he's gonna try and use these parts as examples to make the other components more durable
21:40 < nsh> when they report back to him, he simply says "make these parts to a lower specification from now on"
21:40 < kanzure> heh
21:40 < genehacker> heh
21:40 < kanzure> stop reading my brains, genehacker
21:40 < jrayhawk> heh
21:40 < genehacker> now we're to the point where we do that before hand
21:40 < nsh> i strongly suspect ageing is death by a thousand cuts, give or take. there'd be pressure to have everything start to unwind at more or less the same rate
21:41 < jrayhawk> It'd be simpler to have a handful of trigger conditions that make death succict so as to help the herd.
21:41 < genehacker> IE we understand how mechanical systems wear so people start making them to be cheaper and not last forever
21:42 < genehacker> so the saying "they don't make them like they used to is true"
21:42 < nsh> thing is, immortality has been solved already, just at a different scale level to the one we experience
21:42 < jumpboy11j> bigger or smaller?
21:42 < splicer> hela-cells?
21:42 < genehacker> immortality is highly improbable
21:43 < kanzure> "The BIG problem with traditional IV stem cell transplantation: cancer & 1st pass pulmonary filtration, is avoided with the use of these cells which are evolutionarily equipped to handle temporary niche-independence while they are mobilized in the circulation."
21:43 < nsh> we want to preserve the analogue system, when it's the digital data (genes) that have already achieved it
21:43 < kanzure> "I am currently trying to find ways of expanding harvested populations in vitro; with a view to reintroduction. This is difficult, because free stem cells tend to either differentiate or to transform. Additionally, the reintroduction has to be into a FULLY prepped organism, to simulate youth (UNDER 2 years of age) AND major trauma - which should start the various innate repair programs."
21:43 < kanzure> "During the autologous I.V. transplant I would have to inhibit SOCS3 & upregulate thymosin beta-4 and suppress systemic constitutive NF-kappaB; among other things."
21:43 < kanzure> "Use of this protocol at intervals will possibly allow maybe a 200 year lifespan; and also PAINLESS  GENETIC REENGINEERING OF ADULT ORGANISMS." (ignore the caps lock)
21:43 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/papers/longevity/2010-03-23.txt
21:44 < nsh> hmm
21:44 < splicer> some nut?
21:44 < kanzure> no :)
21:44 < kanzure> although he is nutty at times- he apologizes to me for "wasting" my time
21:44 < nsh> :)
21:45 < nsh> i wonder what he means by "painless"
21:45 < kanzure> probably "relatively"? :D
21:45 < kanzure> hm
21:45 < InkBlob> this stuff is crazy.
21:45 < InkBlob> i'm trying to wrap my head around it.
21:46 < InkBlob> i thought you were the robot-machine guy kanzure, how do you know so much about biology?
21:46 < kanzure> huh? my background is more in biology than in industrial automation
21:46 < kanzure> sadly i wish this was the other way around
21:46 < nsh> convergence :)
21:47 < genehacker> I'm more of a machine guy here
21:47 < kanzure> i just get mesmorized by this stuff: 
21:47 < kanzure> 0EB93E6E02E5CF17
21:47 < kanzure> blah
21:47 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/user/kanzure#grid/user/0EB93E6E02E5CF17
21:47 < InkBlob> it is? how come you talk about robot arms and stuff like that in IRC all the time. 
21:47 < kanzure> (my machine porn playlist)
21:48 < kanzure> because i recently bought a robotic arm :)
21:48 < InkBlob> well, great study. thangs.
21:48 < kanzure> what?
21:48 < InkBlob> Okay.
21:48 < InkBlob> great study for me. good information. thanks.
21:48 < kanzure> ah
21:48 < genehacker> kanzure I should give you my gear porn library
21:48 < kanzure> i have this song stuck in my head now: http://www.youtube.com/user/kanzure#p/c/0EB93E6E02E5CF17/37/wbDwUWGvwq4
21:49  * nsh thinks about the new Game of Life construction -- Gemini, the first oblique spaceship
21:49 < nsh> http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gemini
21:50 < kanzure> nsh: have you seen golly?
21:50 < nsh> aye, haven't tried yet
21:50 < kanzure> http://golly.sf.net/ or something
21:50 < genehacker> a new spaceship!
21:50 < kanzure> my aussie friend has this 8 GB OSX setup running a session of golly for the past 1.5~ years
21:50 < nsh> heh
21:50 < nsh> on the same input?
21:50 < genehacker> I have this song stuck in my head:
21:50 < genehacker> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ4nmG39QXo
21:50 < kanzure> yeah just one huge continuous run
21:51 < kanzure> http://thewildca.com/
21:51 < kanzure> he printed it out? hah
21:51 < genehacker> how do people discover these things?
21:52 < genehacker> brute force?
21:52 < nsh> nah, there's a whole 'technology' of game of life components and their interaction
21:52 < kanzure> egeste and nsh probably will tell you something about swhack or subgenius or something
21:52 < kanzure> wolfram would wave his hands and make up bullshit
21:52 < kanzure> and feynman would just smirk
21:52 < kanzure> (or something)
21:52 < nsh> hit the bongos
21:52 -!- jumpboy11j [~jumpboy11@pool-98-109-133-51.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has left #hplusroadmap []
21:52 < kanzure> ah, right
21:52 < kanzure> yeah, he'd do that
21:53 < kanzure> aww jumpboy11j left :(
21:53 < genehacker> I know of the technology of game of life components
21:53 < genehacker> I'm not aware of how people discover it
21:53 < genehacker> I guess people engineer it?
21:53 < kanzure> wolfram had this classification system for CA rules
21:53 < lepton> Sounds like a good application for genetic optimization to me
21:53 < genehacker> the bullshit one that got disproven?
21:54 < nsh> i'd call it engineering at this point, genehacker. but i'm a layman
21:54 < kanzure> nsh: pfft, yeah and i'm jesus
21:54 < kanzure> wait
21:54 < genehacker> engineering as opposed to cathedral building
21:54 < genehacker> engineering is planning something out in advance
21:54 -!- lepton [~lepton@174-29-2-161.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:54 < nsh> see this thread: http://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=399&start=0
21:54 < kanzure> gah what's with you people and quitting
21:54 < genehacker> cathedral building is making corrections as you go along
21:54 -!- Roy78 [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:54 < nsh> the sheer level of lingo is impressive in itself
21:55 < kanzure> nsh: do you read the NKS forums too?
21:55  * nsh reads things here and there :)
21:55 < genehacker> so what's golly?
21:55 < nsh> golly is a life simulator
21:55 < nsh> uses the hashlife algorithm, for speediness
21:55 < kanzure> hi Roy78 .. you missed our longevity stem cell therapy stuff
21:55 < kanzure> golly is a cellular automata simulator
21:55 < genehacker> ok
21:55 < nsh> http://golly.sourceforge.net/ 
21:55 < genehacker> so is that thing on that mans wall a time lapse?
21:56 < nsh> no idea
21:56 < kanzure> on the wall is a printout of the 200,000th iteration
21:56 < genehacker> oh neat
21:56 < kanzure> but it's more interesting to watch it animated
21:56 < kanzure> because you see islands of order and stuff break off and go away.. 
21:56 -!- lepton [~lepton@174-29-2-161.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:56 < kanzure> i just like watching it and making up stories :P
21:56 < kanzure> "oh and now there's a colony"
21:56 < genehacker> so I wonder if all this cellular automata stuff will actually be useful someday
21:56 < lepton> *old and busted computer here at home
21:57 < kanzure> "oh noes they might be dying" (and then thbey don't- providing a rail/structure for the snowball effect from the bigger former breakaway point to come over and takem the non)
21:57 < genehacker> especially if we make real world cellular automata
21:57 < kanzure> *take them on
21:57 < kanzure> sure, people have done real world cellular automata
21:57 < kanzure> paul rothemund did it on DNA once, i think
21:57 < genehacker> oh snap
21:57 < genehacker> paper link now
21:57 < genehacker> I know that
21:57 < kanzure> paul rothemund did your mom on dna, so whatever- not that impressive ;) he's a wizard
21:58 < kanzure> lemme see
21:58 < genehacker> someone made a glider gun in a cyclic chemical system
21:58 < kanzure> hmm where did i put this paper
21:58 < nsh> i'll be impressed when we get cellular automata processing information in, i don't know, convection cells on the ocean
21:59 < genehacker> what I want to see is a cellular automata machine that can reconfigure itself into different speciallized computers
21:59 < nsh> something massive and physical
21:59 < nsh> i think you run into synch problems in real physical systems over a certain size
21:59 < genehacker> yup
21:59 < kanzure> genehacker: basically it was paul's sierpenski triangles on dna, that was cellular automata.
21:59 < nsh> hard to have a 'clock' in the real world. damn you einstein...
22:00 < nsh> i was reading a while back about emergent properties in asynchronous cellular automata
22:00 < nsh> didn't get any clear conclusions though
22:00 < kanzure> genehacker: http://www.dna.caltech.edu/Papers/SierpinskiDNA_PLoS2004.pdf
22:01 < nsh> this looks interesting: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.7.2073
22:01 < kanzure>  Algorithmic Self-Assembly of DNA Sierpinski Triangles http://www.dna.caltech.edu/Papers/SierpinskiDNA_PLoS2004.pdf
22:01 < kanzure> from http://www.dna.caltech.edu/DNAresearch_publications.html
22:01 < genehacker> nsh quantum interactions are expected to be 10^35 times faster than the speed of light
22:01  * nsh doesn't know what that means
22:01 < kanzure> fake
22:01 < genehacker> but only downside is you can only transfer information out of a quantum system at the speed of light...
22:02 < kanzure> figures
22:02 < nsh> i don't know if you can process anything using quantum interactions
22:02 < nsh> i need to study quantum information theory
22:02 < kanzure> nsh: what about dwave?
22:02 < kanzure> the cfompany
22:02 < kanzure> apparently i have significant investments in them O_o
22:02 < kanzure> and the CEO is speaking at h+ summit
22:02  * nsh waits and sees
22:02 < kanzure> if you were quantum you would do your seeing first, and then your waiting
22:02  * nsh smiles
22:03 < genehacker> I have misgivings about putting a lot of money into dwave at this point in time
22:03 < kanzure> i didn't choose to do it :P
22:03 < kanzure> the old man did it before he died
22:04 < nsh> i'm sure something will come of it
22:04 < nsh> just perhaps not what's expected
22:05 < nsh> science is the courtship of  serendipity
22:05 < kanzure> apparently the ceo (what's his name?) used their computing platform to solve the scheduling optimization problem for h+ summit
22:05 < nsh> heh
22:05 < genehacker> hopefully a quantum internet and not quantum cryto cracking
22:05 < nsh> oh, i didn't get around to reading Post-quantum cryptography
22:05 < nsh> or whatever it's called
22:06 < nsh> http://www.springer.com/mathematics/numbers/book/978-3-540-88701-0
22:06 < nsh> have it knocking about somewhere
22:06 < kanzure> do you need access to that springer link
22:07 < nsh> nah, i got it already from somewhere
22:07 < nsh> thanks though
22:08 < nsh> "There's plenty of room at the bottom..."
22:09 < kanzure> a lot of the stuff on the http://www.youtube.com/user/kanzure#grid/user/0EB93E6E02E5CF17 playlist looks like it'd fit right in with koyaanisqatsi
22:09  * kanzure is watching http://www.youtube.com/user/kanzure#p/c/0EB93E6E02E5CF17/37/wbDwUWGvwq4 now
22:10 < nsh> hmm
22:14  * nsh goes for a think
22:14 < InkBlob> kanzure, are you successful and famous or something? you're on youtube.
22:14 < InkBlob> how much cash do you rake in ?
22:14 < kanzure> i have some funding for crazy antics going on in here
22:15 < genehacker> none from youtube though
22:15 < kanzure> but i can't fund recurring payments like dojo membership fees ;-) or rent ;-)
22:15 < genehacker> your facebook drug running should pay for that
22:15 < InkBlob> so you have funding = sum of money, but that is not recurring monthly?
22:16 < kanzure> the lump sum of money was a one time funding gig for me
22:16 < kanzure> so once it's gone, it's gone
22:16 < kanzure> and recurring payments are a really really quick way to use it up
22:16 < kanzure> also i'm hesitant to spend money most of the time.. i's wierd
22:16 < kanzure> i was kinda assuming i'd be broke eforever
22:16 < kanzure> *weird
22:17 < kanzure> *forever
22:17 < kanzure> (i'm ssh'ing into another computer, and my home connection is slow, so that's why all these typos are happening)
22:18 < Yocttar> So, any1 here can guide me to the next step after extracting my DNA? I wish to extract some algea DNA, manipulate it and let it reproduce eventually, so... Any1? :)
22:18 < kanzure> algae reproduce on their own- why would you want to extract DNA from algae for reproduction?
22:19 < genehacker> are you trying to do PCR?
22:19 < Yocttar> __manipulate___
22:19 < Yocttar> ok, PCR then... how ? :)
22:19 < genehacker> manipulate how?
22:19 < kanzure> ah, for manipulation
22:19 < InkBlob> i am conducting a project with my friends that is medical related. If it becomes successful, we can safely gain at least 15,000 per client (it will become service based.) We are looking for a person who is technically apt enough to understand what we are making (a mechanical device) and has enough expertise in biology. 
22:19 < kanzure> i guess there's all sorts of methods
22:19 < Yocttar> lets say input some florecent gene or something
22:19 < kanzure> oh, well then you should consider a plasmid method
22:20 < kanzure> InkBlob: what is your project in particular?
22:20 < genehacker> then you don't take the DNA out you put it in
22:20 < InkBlob> The only thing we are worried about is that we are not licensed practioners of medicine. The particular license we need is probably somewhere along the lines of chiropractice.
22:20 < genehacker> I have mechanical skills but I am just an undergrad
22:21 < InkBlob> kanzure, I will speak to you in private after I gather the materials to show you what we are on to. 
22:21 < InkBlob> Is that ok with you?
22:21 < kanzure> yes
22:21 < kanzure> are you ok on a phone?
22:21 < InkBlob> Please give me few days.
22:21 < genehacker> is this something that goes inside people?
22:21 < kanzure> speaking of which, someone recommended - anonymously- that we start having weekly conference calls
22:21 < InkBlob> Maybe. I prefer logged chat for later reference.
22:21 < kanzure> for the diybio, hackerspaces, open manufacturing, transhumanism cross-over community
22:22 < InkBlob> genehacker: No. It's for aesthetic purposes, and is non-surgical based.
22:22 < InkBlob> hence why it's more plausible.
22:22 < kanzure> would anyone be interested in joining the teleconferences over skype?
22:22 < kanzure> for some reason, people prefer voice chat for weekly meetings 
22:22 < kanzure> and don't take scheduled irc chats seriously (wtf)
22:23 < genehacker> sounds interesting I would like to know more
22:23 < kanzure> in particular i'd like to get you asshats back on the journal club reading schedule
22:23 < kanzure> slackers
22:23 < kanzure> all of you, just slackers. gah
22:23 < genehacker> what schedule?
22:24 < kanzure> weren't we doing a daily/weekly journal club thing?
22:24 < genehacker> not that I know of
22:24 < kanzure> hmm
22:24 < Yocttar> Any guide for plasmid manipulation?
22:24 < kanzure> tons :)
22:25 < Yocttar> well , a simple one? :D
22:25 < kanzure> http://protocol-online.org/ has a ridiculous load of links
22:25 < Yocttar> I theoreticlly know the procedure
22:25 < Yocttar> never in a lab
22:26 < Yocttar> I can build w\e tools necessary
22:27 < kanzure> the equipment for plasmid stuff is usually like a refrigerator, a freezer, petri dishes, an incubator, and more importantly the chemicals
22:28 < kanzure> like for making the organism competent- the most basic version is a calcium chloride protocol
22:28 < kanzure> but there are also methods involving gene guns, electrical techniques, natural competence (i.e. the organism might naturally take up DNA), and so on
22:28 < Yocttar> Well, if that is the most basic method, I should look into it..
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22:29 < kanzure> it depends on your target organism, mind you
22:29 < kanzure> often you have to tweak a protocol for plasmid transfection for a related organism if you're working with something bizarre/non-standard
22:29 < Yocttar> for algea
22:29 < kanzure> yeah algae transfection isn't exactly bio 101, but i don't recall how complicated it is
22:30 < kanzure> most people do transfection with ecoli for starters, or something they can smear on a petri dish
22:30 < Yocttar> ok then
22:30 < kanzure> i'm not saying algae is impossible, just that it's not a typical first genetic engineering project
22:30 < Yocttar> ecoli
22:30 < genehacker> GFP algae? is someone trying to pull a prank on a school by dumping GFP algae into a fountain that happens to be on campus?
22:30 < genehacker> because that sounds like a great idea
22:30 < Yocttar> well
22:30 < Yocttar> actually
22:30 < Yocttar> my starting idea was
22:30 < Yocttar> to put a glowing algea
22:30 < Yocttar> in my fountain
22:30 < Yocttar> wouldnt that be cool? :D
22:30 < genehacker> there's already glowing algae out there
22:31 < genehacker> or glowing bacteria
22:31 < genehacker> can be obtained from REALLY fresh fish
22:31 < kanzure> gfp only fluoresces in the presence of blue light, mind you
22:31 < kanzure> mind you mind you mind you
22:31 < kanzure> i need to stop saying that
22:32 < genehacker> there's this one fountain I know of that uses blue lights
22:32 < genehacker> yes the type that would make algae fluorecse
22:33 < genehacker> anyway making stuff glow in the dark is hard
22:33 < Yocttar> "can be obtained from REALLY fresh fish" ,
22:33 < genehacker> yup
22:33 < Yocttar> what do you mean?
22:34 < Yocttar> Lets say I buy a fish
22:34 < Yocttar> !
22:34 < kanzure> oh no not the samon sperm thing again
22:34 < kanzure> :(
22:34 < Yocttar> a fresh 1
22:34 < Yocttar> O_o
22:34 < kanzure> *salmon
22:34 < genehacker> http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1485
22:34 < genehacker> nope
22:34 < Yocttar> why would any fish have a glowing algea on him
22:35 < genehacker> that's how we'd make synthetic DNA monomers though or some form of LED
22:35 < genehacker> because it happens to live in the ocean
22:35 < genehacker> it's bacteria actually, happens to grow on dead fish
22:36 < genehacker> every seen bioluminescent stuff in the see when you agitate seawater?
22:36 < genehacker> that's mostly that bacteria
22:38 < Yocttar> nope I never saw that ;(
22:38 < genehacker> go to an ocean sometime
22:38 < genehacker> and get a bucket of water and agitate it
22:39 < Yocttar> My fountain has sweet water tough ;(
22:40 < Yocttar> that will work anywhere in the world you say?
22:40 < genehacker> it depends
22:40 < genehacker> sometimes
22:40 < Yocttar> I dont think so =P
22:40 < Yocttar> those bacteria must've taken over the world then
22:41 < genehacker> you don't live in the US do you?
22:41 < genehacker> they are fairly ubiquitous
22:42 < genehacker> such that this can occur: http://weirdnewsfiles.com/wp-content/weirdnewsuploads/milky_sea.jpg
22:42 < genehacker> that's a patch of sea where they all lit up
22:43 < genehacker> yup they are present in all marine environments
22:47 < kanzure> ooh http://www.programmableweb.com/apis/directory
22:47 < Yocttar> Im from Israel
22:48 < genehacker> excellent you have a nice patch of ocean which you can experiment on
22:48 < Yocttar> ;D
22:48 < genehacker> fresh fish should definately be nearby
22:48 < genehacker> I live far too inland to extract luminous bacteria from fish
22:49 < kanzure> good night robot army masquerading as human commandos
22:58 < Yocttar> night ;)
22:58 < Yocttar> (morning here) :)
22:58 < genehacker> there is no such thing as night on the internet!
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23:22 < Yocttar> Bah, so easy to find dna extraction process, nothing on insertion :<
23:42 < Yocttar> any helpful forums\boards for extreme lab beginners like me? :p
23:42 < genehacker> it's very specific to what you are working with
23:43 < genehacker> if you really want experience take a class on it
23:43 < genehacker> you could also read kanzure's paper repository
23:43 < genehacker> but taking a class will get you more experience
23:45 < genehacker> you could just go to the diybio google group
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23:58 < Utopiah> Spiders at the Nanoscale: Molecules that Behave Like Robots http://cumc.columbia.edu/news/press_releases/DNArobot.html