--- Day changed Tue Jun 22 2010
00:09 -!- AJollyLife [~Jolly@unaffiliated/ajollylife] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
00:28 -!- Noahj [~noa@24.38.189.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
00:33 -!- Noahj [~noa@24.38.189.39] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:07 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:07 -!- cluckj [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:19 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279558942.dsl.bell.ca] has quit []
02:07 -!- CIA-48 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
02:47 -!- CIA-46 [cia@208.69.182.149] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:54 -!- jcluck [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:56 -!- randallagordon_ [~randallag@c-71-59-167-112.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:58 -!- cluckj [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
02:58 -!- randallagordon [~randallag@c-71-59-167-112.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:18 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:31 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:32 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:33 -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-25-202.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:55 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
04:05 < QuantumG> kanzure, you around?
04:08 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
04:15 -!- fenn [fenn@dhcp-84-252.me.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
04:15 -!- fenn [fenn@dhcp-84-252.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
04:19 < QuantumG> I don't think you have this one: http://www.springerlink.com/content/r75jv1650l0q0758/
04:19 < QuantumG> looks neat
04:36 < jcluck> Ian_Daniher cool idea about NEB :)
04:52 < kanzure> QuantumG: yes i'maround
05:36 -!- jcluck is now known as cluckj
05:56 < cluckj> hopefully I'll see some of you at the diy bio boston meetup
05:56 < cluckj> cya
06:00 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@69.86.203.77] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:25 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
06:29 -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-25-202.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:30 -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-25-202.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:34 -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-25-202.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:38 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:01 -!- splicer [~foo@92.39.2.16] has quit []
07:51 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@69.86.203.77] has quit [Quit: pmetzger]
07:55 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]
07:56 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:00 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@69.86.203.77] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:04 < kanzure> ew, why is steve klabnik on the openscad mailing list? 
08:05  * kanzure hopes cloudfab.com isn't going towards openscad..
08:06 < pmetzger> howdy, kanzure.
08:06 < pmetzger> trying out a new client this morning...
08:10 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
08:10 < pmetzger> did anyone answer fenn's question to his satisfaction last night? I went to bed....
08:13 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:18 < kanzure> fenn seems to have disappeared
08:18 < kanzure> ever since he started that job :(
08:18 < pmetzger> who is fenn?
08:19 < kanzure> http://fennetic.net/
08:20 < pmetzger> I didn't quite get whether I was talking at too low or too high a level when he asked that question...
08:23 < kanzure> honestly it sounded like chem 101 :P
08:24 < pmetzger> my idea of what chem 101 is like is rather distorted at this point. :)
08:26 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@69.86.203.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:27 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@69.86.203.77] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:28 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:44 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:03 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
09:09 < kanzure> esther dyson writing about diygenomics.org http://healthsymptomsfacts.com/i/Esther-Dyson-about-Genomics/
09:10 < kanzure> oops
09:10 < kanzure> http://scienceroll.com/2010/06/18/esther-dyson-about-genomics/
09:10 < kanzure> there's an nyc quantified self? http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=scienceroll.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meetup.com%2FNYQuantifiedSelf%2F&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fscienceroll.com%2F2010%2F06%2F18%2Festher-dyson-about-genomics%2F
09:10 < kanzure> er
09:11 < kanzure> http://meetup.com/NYQuantifiedSelf/
09:11 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
09:18 -!- Yocttar [~victor@bzq-84-111-31-19.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
09:20 -!- Yocttar [~victor@bzq-84-111-31-19.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:24 < kanzure> hmm how'd this get here?
09:24 < kanzure> http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spiral.pl
09:51 -!- cluckj [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:51 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:53 -!- AJollyLife [~Jolly@unaffiliated/ajollylife] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:57 < kanzure> pmetzger: do you have a copy of "Extropy: A Journal of Transhumanist Thought"?
09:58 < kanzure> http://blog.ponoko.com/2010/06/21/boitech-tools/
09:58 < kanzure> http://blog.ponoko.com/2010/06/21/biotech-tools/
09:59 < kanzure> "xerox machine for DNA" ugh
09:59 < kanzure> my head hurts :(
10:01 < pmetzger> kanzure: I have copies of every issue of Extropy.
10:02 < pmetzger> At first it was "Vaccine for Future Shock".
10:07 < kanzure> are they physical or digital issues
10:11 < kanzure> hm lots of biotech videos: http://article.wn.com/view/2010/06/15/Cipla_ups_biotech_play_via_stake_buys/
10:11 < kanzure> pmetzger: digital or physical?
10:12 < pmetzger> physical.
10:13 < kanzure> drats
10:13 < pmetzger> this is 20+ year old paper.
10:13 < kanzure> nobody has a digital copy of these articles
10:13 < pmetzger> I even own the issues that have been placed in the memory hole.
10:13 < kanzure> i'd be willing to type some of them up, but..
10:13 < pmetzger> I suspect Max and esp. Natasha would be vigorous in pursuing copyright violations.
10:14 < kanzure> really? i think they want these articles up on the web as much as anyone
10:14 < pmetzger> no. they want everyone to forget they ever existed.
10:14 < kanzure> uh.. why?
10:14 < kanzure> btw i've been talking with natasha recently and everything you're saying sounds contrary, but it's entirely possible that i've misinterpreted her
10:15 < pmetzger> Then ask her for a copy of issue 3 of extropy.
10:15 < pmetzger> see what she says.
10:15 < kanzure> how about a copy of all of them
10:15 < pmetzger> or even just to see the first few issues.
10:15 < pmetzger> issue #3 in particular went down the memory hole.
10:15 < pmetzger> but I suspect all the early ones would now be considered things they don't want online.
10:23 < kanzure> they live down the street
10:23 < kanzure> this is stupid
10:23 < kanzure> they probably have archives of everything just sitting around
10:23 < pmetzger> certainly they do.
10:23 < kanzure> i just sent them an email proposing i go over and just spend a day typing up the articles
10:23 < kanzure> it's not like i'm a slow typist
10:23 < pmetzger> okay. :)
10:23 < pmetzger> they're well typeset, OCR will work fine.
10:23 < kanzure> bah
10:23 < kanzure> it takes longer to scan a page, i would think
10:24 < pmetzger> it is a bit rough, late 1980s mac stuff, but...
10:24 < kanzure> eww macs? :(
10:24 < kanzure> well i guess that was one of the only options back then
10:24 < pmetzger> I'm assuming it was a mac. I think it was.
10:25 < pmetzger> Probably Max's or Simon!'s. Maybe Tom's.
10:30 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:30 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:38 < kanzure> updated: http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F
10:38 < kanzure> cluckj: you might be interested in that
10:38 < kanzure> pmetzger: you too maybe
10:40 < kanzure> "The free Mobile Gulf Observatory (MoGO) app turns you and your iPhone(TM(TM)
10:40 < kanzure> into a ' Citizen Scientist' helping us track the environmental impact of
10:40 < kanzure> the BP"
10:40 < pmetzger> Around here, the only BP spills are at gas stations. :)
10:43 < fenn> yes i meant "probability density" though that's a silly way to think about it. I don't care about an analytical solution; I guess VMD is the ticket: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/Research/vmd/current/images/c60_orb104b.png http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/Research/vmd/current/
10:44 < kanzure> Southeast Citizen Science Project: how oil spill
10:44 < kanzure> affects ghost crabs (& birds that feed on them) http://bit.ly/9c0M3G
10:45 < pmetzger> Probability density is the QM way to think of it. It is a probability density.
10:45 < pmetzger> Electrons have no position until you measure the position.
10:46 < pmetzger> VMD displays the output of programs like GAUSSIAN and GAMESS, yes.
10:47 < pmetzger> though there are all sorts of things you may want to see. for example, the probability density doesn't show you where the wave function is positive and where it is negative.
10:47 < pmetzger> (The real part of course.)
10:48 < pmetzger> if you want to understand things like the Woodward-Hoffman rules, you need to visualize *that*...
10:49 < fenn> i've never even heard of "woodward-hoffman rules"
10:49 < fenn> is this like a resonance?
10:51 < pmetzger> no.
10:51 < fenn> rawr. chemistry has too many made up words
10:51 < pmetzger> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Woodward-Hoffmann_rules
10:51 < fenn> ah, see I wasn't in the wrong with "electron density" http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/Research/vmd/current/
10:51 < pmetzger> so does computer science. it is hard to discuss a technical subject without macros to summarize complicated concepts.
10:51 < fenn> erm, i mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_geometry#3D_Representations
10:52 < kanzure> pmetzger: cool, max is going for it
10:53 < pmetzger> orbitals and electron densities are different.
10:53 < fenn> they are?
10:53 < pmetzger> so an orbital is for ONE electron.
10:53 < pmetzger> or a pair with opposite spin.
10:54 < pmetzger> but an atom has many electrons in different orbitals.
10:54 < pmetzger> so you can mean many different things when you are colloquial about it
10:54 < pmetzger> the probability density of a single electron, of all the electrons....
10:54 < pmetzger> it helps to be very specific about what one means.
10:56 < fenn> well basically i was upset with the simplistic representation of molecules with balls and sticks, but didn't realize i had to jump up to a whole new level of sophistication/cantankerousness just to get anything beyond that
10:57 < pmetzger> different representations are good for different things.
10:58 < pmetzger> 2D reps are often good enough for organic chemists, given how they think.
10:58 < kanzure> "We actually have licensed copies for most all of the CAD-related STEP application protocols, but thanks anyways.  ARL got us copies of the specification several years ago so we could develop our STEP importer, which we just finished implementing last year.  We've taken over the NIST SCL as part of that project and have been making improvements to it in order to support the latest specification."
10:58  * kanzure <3 brlcad
10:58 < kanzure> (that was sean)
10:58 < pmetzger> getting full accurate representations of things like d or f based orbitals gets fun.
10:59 < fenn> so they now have a working step importer?
10:59 < pmetzger> hard to visualize wacky stuff like that
10:59 < kanzure> fenn: apparently. i'm sniffing around to see if it's true
10:59 < kanzure> they were using the NIST SCL thingy that i was trying to compile yesterday
10:59 < pmetzger> things like delta bonds happen as well. :)
10:59 < pmetzger> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Delta_bond
11:00 < pmetzger> and do you want a representation to show orbital symmetry (which is critical to bond formation) or to ignore it and just show probability distributions?
11:00 < pmetzger> these are all considerations when you're trying to view something.
11:00 < pmetzger> sometimes, just seeing balls and sticks is *easier* than a more literally accurate representation because it gives a person with a particular background a clearer view of what's where, and their intuition does the rest.
11:01 < fenn> well, most people don't have any "intuition"
11:01 < fenn> they just see balls and sticks
11:01 < pmetzger> You can't do work without intuition anyway.
11:01 < fenn> you can't develop intuition unless you've seen wtf you're trying to visualize
11:01 < pmetzger> without chemical intuition, you don't get that you should be watching out for the behavior of the lone pair on a nitrogen, say.
11:01 < pmetzger> and the visualization won't show you that.
11:02 < fenn> it's not "intuition" dammit
11:02 < pmetzger> it is.
11:02 < fenn> bah
11:02 < pmetzger> you build it by doing loads of problems.
11:02 < pmetzger> it is like having a sense of what type of integration trick to try for a particular integral.
11:02 < pmetzger> "oh, this probably needs integration by parts"...
11:02 < pmetzger> you build a big database of ideas in your head as you work with some difficult domain
11:03 < pmetzger> "intuition" is as good a word as is easily available for that. saying "experience" doesn't give the right flavor.
11:03 < pmetzger> anyway, you look at a molecule, and if you have the right kind of background, you can see "ah, that's a tertiary carbon with high steric hinderance, I bet that SN1 chemistry happens there"
11:04 < pmetzger> and with too many things cluttering the picture you won't pick that up.
11:04 < pmetzger> or you see a carbonyl group and you think about the carbonyl chemistry that can happen at the spot.
11:04 < fenn> i've noticed that it suddenly became hard to remember the meaning of the kanji when ubuntu decided to upgrade and changed the font...
11:05 < pmetzger> Anyway, people without the background won't know what sort of reactions can happen, and for people with it, the most "realistic" notion of an electron probability density around the molecule would conceal what they need to see to figure the chemistry out.
11:06 < pmetzger> so often, people use very primitive visualizations because they're sufficiently uncluttered to show the right things.
11:06 < pmetzger> sorry to make it sound hard. unfortunately, to some extent it is.
11:08 < pmetzger> Organic chemists typically do things like not labeling the carbons and leaving the hydrogens entirely off the diagram to make it easier to see the important parts. :)
11:08 < kanzure> fenn: also, they have the entire complete set of ISO 10303 thanks to their military connections
11:08 < kanzure> !! :)
11:08 < pmetzger> this is BRL-CAD? I thought people said it wasn't useful...
11:09 < kanzure> it isn't
11:09 < fenn> the entire complete set?
11:09 < kanzure> but they have some pretty wacky connections with the military
11:09 < kanzure> fenn: at least the STEP-related portions.. but i'll check/ask
11:10 < fenn> i thought ARL pretty much WAS the military
11:10 < pmetzger> I wonder how long it would take a dedicated team to clone AutoCAD...
11:10 < kanzure> advanced research lab? i thought the military is more than military
11:10 < fenn> army research labs
11:10 < kanzure> pmetzger: you want a team to clone Solidworks. screw autocad
11:10 < kanzure> fenn: have you used solidworks yet?
11:11 < pmetzger> I've used neither.
11:11 < kanzure> pmetzger: also, i was once working on this weird hack to use solidworks DLL files from python running under wine. a lot of the symbol names and class names in solidworks are the same as in OpenCASCADE
11:11 < kanzure> corporate acquisitions or something, i bet
11:12 < fenn> i liked the old manuals where they described each tutorial as a "mission"
11:12 < pmetzger> I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to using actual mechanical CAD systems. I've never done a project on one.
11:12 < kanzure> "okay soldier, watch out for the compiler errors, and don't mess with -Wall"
11:12 < pmetzger> so my opinions about them may be cheerfully ignorant.
11:12 < fenn> i think i played around with solidworks once, or maybe it was inventor..
11:16 < pmetzger> I mentioned AutoCAD only because it is the one many people seem to use, not out of knowledge.
11:16 < kanzure> solidworks was the once that looked like this: http://upload.arabsbook.com/imgcache/SolidWorks-2008-Unveiledne8dzzjgL7.www.arabsbook.com.jpg
11:18 < fenn> i thought this was nifty: //secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Delta_bond
11:18 < fenn> grarr
11:18 < fenn> http://brlcad.org/w/images/4/4f/Vehicle_Tire_and_Wheel_Creation_in_BRL-CAD.pdf
11:19 < fenn> i want "surface normal vision"
11:23 < pmetzger> if BRL-CAD is used enough to need tire creation primitives, but it isn't usable, how do people manage?
11:24 < fenn> there are a small number of highly trained army personnel that do nothing but use brl-cad all day
11:25 < fenn> (highly trained in the use of brlcad that is)
11:25 < fenn> it's a great geometry kernel, it just sorely needs a real UI
11:25 < pmetzger> so are all the "bones" there and it is just a UI issue?
11:36  * fenn has discovered the hot chocolate machine at work
11:38 < fenn> internet connection and near-infinite amounts of on-demand low grade chocolate.. now if only they would stop pestering me about this camera sensor stuff
11:39 < kanzure> "now if only i could get them to stop making me actually do stuff"
11:45 < pmetzger> work is the curse of the drinking class.
11:47 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:47 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:52 < fenn> i eat cake too
11:53 < kanzure> oh ok, cake too :)
11:53 < kanzure> hot damn i might get the rest of the specs from the brlcad peeps
11:53 < fenn> thanks to my quantitative diary, i can say that i've actually done 33 minutes of "work" today
11:53 < fenn> this was really a bad thing when doing telecommuting with flex hours
11:54 < fenn> because i only billed for actual work
11:54 < kanzure> yeah when people are actually honest with how much "work" they do, it gets a bit mind-boggling
11:54 < fenn> when you figure what stuff actually costs vs the price, it balances out
12:10 < AJollyLife> you mean im not supposed to just answer e-mails/tweet/hang out in irc all day at work?
12:10 < fenn> for a lot of people, that's actually their job
12:11 < fenn> consider for example a typical "customer relations" position
12:13 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:13 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:19 < kanzure> http://wiki.makerbot.com/open-source-ftw
12:25 < fenn> er, how did they go from "open source yay!" to "you must buy your parts from us"?
12:26 < fenn> i wonder if that was a response to "some people just hang out and tweet all day at work"
12:26 < kanzure> "it's totally possible for you to do it without us and get all the parts yourself, we're ok with that and for personal use (ie: not selling it),"
12:27 < kanzure> the link was not a response to that.. the link is random (in comparison)
12:27 < kanzure> "Anyhow, the main idea here is that if you're going to make it to sell, please talk to us so we can support you and you can support us and so your project will contribute to the community."
12:27 < kanzure> so, it just sounds like "we won't be happy if you sell it independent of us"
12:27 < fenn> yeah, that's how it sounds
12:28 < kanzure> "# If you're selling them, you need to license the MakerBot name from us."
12:28 < kanzure> but it doesn't sound like a legal threat
12:28 < kanzure> (does it?)
12:29 < fenn> yes, but i'm ok with that
12:29 < fenn> it's the actual intended purpose of trademarks after all
12:29 < kanzure> sorry i meant "you must buy your parts from us" didn't sound like a legal threat
12:29 < kanzure> i'm ok with trademark stuff too, that's fine imho
12:29 < fenn> it's not like sun suing sparkfun because they supposedly infringed on their "SPARC" trademark
12:29 < kanzure> woah wtf
12:29 < kanzure> they did that?
12:30 < fenn> heh, they sent some scary letter demanding money, i dunno if they actually sued or not
12:30 < kanzure> that's amazing
12:30 < fenn> indeed
12:31 < fenn> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/news.php?id=300
12:31 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:48 < fenn> btw, i went camping this weekend, that's why i was disappeared
12:52 < fenn> kanzure did you ever find the package i ordered from sparkfun just before hplus summit in december?
12:52 < fenn> i want to play around with sensor fusion; i should probably just get a wiimote from ebay or craigslist
12:52 < fenn> but having a real gyro or accelerometer chip would be educational
12:53 < kanzure> yes, i think so
12:53 < kanzure> i never opened it up to confirm stuff
12:55 < fenn> that's ok
12:56 < fenn> wow the gyro chips were only $8
12:57 < fenn> btw did i mention the recent-ish discovery by meredith scheff @ noisebridge that you can just feed copper-clad kapton through a laser printer and it prints fine
12:58 < pmetzger> kapton?
12:58 < fenn> heat resistant plastic film
13:01 < fenn> so anyway i don't need to get a solid ink printer at least
13:01 -!- randallagordon [~randallag@c-71-59-167-112.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:02 -!- randallagordon_ [~randallag@c-71-59-167-112.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
13:30 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:31 < kanzure> http://brlcad.org/tmp/spirot.png
13:32 < kanzure> http://brlcad.org/tmp/spirot2.png
13:32 < kanzure> looks like chris got the rotations working on my old spiral.pl script
13:33 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:35 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:35  * kanzure listens to http://www.di.fm/mp3/vocaltrance.pls
13:35 < kanzure> time to get back to work on step.py
13:36 < jrayhawk> this is not a good song
13:37 < kanzure> i agree :(
13:37 < kanzure> it should be over soon. i hope. i pray.
13:37 < jrayhawk> you should be listening to my radio station
13:37 < kanzure> what do you stream
13:37 < jrayhawk> a delicate mix of animaniacs and gangster rap at all times
13:37 < kanzure> sounds intoxicating
13:39  * fenn grumbles about arc-length parameterization
13:39 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
13:39 < fenn> jrayhawk: might i suggest adding some french rap and ievan polka to the mix
13:40 < jrayhawk> I have a small snippet of psytrance polka in there somewhere
13:40 < jrayhawk> and yes, i do have french rap, too
13:41 < pmetzger> MC Solar?
13:41 < kanzure> jrayhawk: it doesn't sound like animaniacs fyi
13:41 < kanzure> can you fix it and put something good on? kthnxbai
13:41 < pmetzger> pardon, missing an a.
13:41 < pmetzger> MC Solaar
13:41 < jrayhawk> indeed
13:42 < kanzure> joe's stream is like listening to the internet cry out in pain constantly
13:42 < kanzure> ok, there it goes, switched over to something else
13:43 < kanzure> jrayhawk: do you have the mp3 or album that xmms 1.2 was shipped with?
13:43 < pmetzger> Everyone outside of France who has french rap in their collection has MC Solaar.
13:43 < jrayhawk> I doubt it.
13:44 < pmetzger> it seems like it sometimes. :)
13:44 < jrayhawk> pmetzger: good call, I do indeed have that.
13:48 < pmetzger> http://blog.makerbot.com/2010/06/21/icookie-baking-for-the-new-generation/
13:51 < kanzure> mota does openmaterials.org
13:51 < kanzure> which, has no materials data :(
13:51 < kanzure> jrayhawk: your musical tastes confuse me
13:52 < kanzure> now i'm imaginging all this french rap stuff while you're doing system admin stuff
13:52 < kanzure> chmod +x that shit
13:53 < jrayhawk> fuck tha IEC
13:53 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:58 < fenn> pmetzger, if only those kids were as good at engineering as they were at marketing
13:59 < kanzure> all the cute chicks go into marketing
13:59 < pmetzger> which kids?
14:00 < fenn> mota, hoeken, et al
14:01 < kanzure> right
14:02 < kanzure> yeah a lot of these people are *amazing* at marketing and self PR
14:03 < fenn> ahem
14:03 < kanzure> hm?
14:03 < fenn> so i think alex lightman/whoever was bullshitting about the number of viewers at hplus
14:03 < kanzure> i agree
14:03 < kanzure> alex fails at pr because it's so easy to see through ;)
14:04 < fenn> i saw about 250 on average watching the stream, according to ustream
14:04 < fenn> nah, people are shallow and easily misled, that's what marketing is about
14:07 < pmetzger> with enough marketers, all people are shallow.
14:07 < pmetzger> (to distort ESR.)
14:11 < fenn> "with enough assholes, all arguments are shallow"
14:13 < pmetzger> :)
14:15 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:15 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:16 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:21 < pmetzger> fenn: so anyway, if you look at: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/Research/vmd/current/images/c60_orb104b.png
14:22 < pmetzger> it doesn't show any of the pi bonds in the system, and it makes you think everything is a clean sigma bond
14:22 < pmetzger> it isn't a realistic depiction of the bonding orbitals or of the overall electron probability density
14:23 < pmetzger> so it is easy with programs like this to view "the wrong thing" if you're not careful too..
14:23 < pmetzger> you always need to know what  you're doing...
14:33 < pmetzger> Wild. Did a google search for something else and exhumed this... http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/2.10/extropians.html
14:33 < kanzure> yeah that was a popular article back in the day
14:33 < pmetzger> I'd forgotten Ed Regis had written that.
14:34 < pmetzger> Ever read "The Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition"?
14:34 < kanzure> i have a copy laying around, i flipped through a few of the chapters once
14:35 < kanzure> fenn: do you know the guy who wrote the config file for the puma500 in emc2?
14:38 -!- shepazu [~schepers@87-194-154-182.bethere.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:42 < fenn> what's his name?
14:42 < kanzure> no, i'm asking you
14:42 < fenn> no, i'm asking you
14:42 < kanzure> er uh
14:43 < fenn> looks like it was added by alex joni
14:43 < kanzure> know him?
14:44 < fenn> yeah, he's alex_joni on freenode, in #cam and #emc
14:44 < fenn> idle 1 day
14:45 < kanzure> better than you
14:45 < kanzure> "idle 2 weeks" or some shit :P
14:45 < kanzure> (sometimes)
14:45 < fenn> heh. where's my brain implant
14:45 < fenn> i think this wearable computer is going to have to be waterproof
14:45 < kanzure> and humidity proof
14:46 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:46 < fenn> and squashed-in-a-backpack-in-a-trunk-proof
14:46 < kanzure> and jocked-up-on-since-i'm-a-nerd-proof
14:47 < fenn> so i got my 2 kg of shapelock (PCL/CAPA) yesterday
14:47 < fenn> kanzure i've been thinking about that and also plan to build a retractable baton/stun gun/mace/flashlight thing
14:48 < kanzure> hah
14:48 < fenn> a nice 5W cyan lumiled ought to blind the shit out of anybody at night
15:02 < kanzure> Steve Canfield and his marvellous mechanical joint http://selenianboondocks.com/2010/06/cjoint1/
15:02 < kanzure> wtf
15:02 < kanzure> QuantumG: what are you doing in the comments there? :)
15:03 < QuantumG> it's a space site
15:03 < QuantumG> and Kirk is a bitter old bastard
15:04 < fenn> i was just looking at canfield joints recently, they're used on the momentum exchange tether design http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPx1Nq80jm8
15:05 < QuantumG> that's Kirk's
15:05 < fenn> er, why yes it is
15:06 < kanzure> i think the world just collapsed in size a little
15:06 < kanzure> did you feel it?
15:06 < fenn> i'm used to it
15:06 < QuantumG> yeah, Kirk is probably more famous for his Thorium energy work
15:08 < fenn> canfield joint reminds me of a cross between a helicopter cyclic and a deltabot
15:08 < QuantumG> first time I looked at it I thought "wow, imagine that at a nano scale."
15:08 < fenn> i should put one on thingiverse
15:12 < QuantumG> kanzure, my "are you around?" question last night was going to be:  what can DIY microfluidics do so far?
15:12 < kanzure> a lot of microfluidics is DIY btw
15:13 < kanzure> but do you mean things that were done without academic funding?
15:13 < kanzure> i mean.. everything in the literature is mostly PDMS stuff that the researcher poured himself
15:14 < QuantumG> DIY to me means someone without funding could whip it together, yeah
15:14 < QuantumG> any gentle introduction to PDMS around? :)
15:14 < fenn> i dont see what's so hard about pdms.. it's basically like pcb fab right?
15:15 < kanzure> it's easier than pcb fab imho
15:15 < fenn> pdms == poly dimethyoxy silicone == silicone casting rubber
15:15 < fenn> dimethyl siloxane, wah
15:16 < QuantumG> what do DIYBio people call HOWTOs? :)
15:16 < fenn> protocols?
15:17 < kanzure> protocols
15:17 < fenn> or if you want to be realistic, "instructables" :(
15:17 < kanzure> :(
15:17 < QuantumG> might I suggest that HOWTO be reserved for DIY and have the detail of both? :)
15:18 < QuantumG> anyway, is there a protocol or an instructable for DIY PDMS?
15:18 < kanzure> yes, let me dig something up
15:18 < fenn> 17:05 < QuantumG> that's Kirk's
15:19 < kanzure> http://www.biomemsrc.org/biomems/documents/pdmscasting.pdf
15:19 < fenn> sorry, windows is being a little bitch
15:19 < fenn> http://www.vanderbilt.edu/viibre/documents/PDMS_Molding_and_bonding.pdf
15:20 < kanzure> chemicals: Sylgard 184 base, Sylgard 184 curing agent, Acetone, 2-Propanol
15:20 < QuantumG> k, so what can you do with PDMS? 
15:20 < kanzure> Weighing Scale, Vacuum Chamber, Curing Oven
15:20 < kanzure> wtf a vacuum chamber?
15:20 < fenn> "su-8 100mm silicon wafer" sounds a bit more involved than pcb etching
15:20 < kanzure> QuantumG: pretty much anything you see here: http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/
15:20 < kanzure> hrm
15:20 < fenn> vacuum is only for removing bubbles
15:20 < kanzure> yeah, especially if you have to spin down the wafer or something
15:21 < kanzure> QuantumG: except not the papers that are about different ways of doing microfluidics
15:21 < kanzure> i.e. there are some papers about "alternatives to PDMS"
15:21 < kanzure> and obviously those aren't about.. uh. nevermind.
15:21 < QuantumG> can you build stuff that can count cells?
15:21 < kanzure> i think you would need optical circuitry as well on top of it?
15:21 < kanzure> or maybe something like resistive capacitance sensing?
15:21 < QuantumG> or electrical
15:21 < kanzure> :)
15:22 < kanzure> fenn: i don't remember wafers being required..
15:22 < QuantumG> how do you control the flow?  electrical valves of some sort?
15:22 < kanzure> some people do hydraulic valves
15:22 < kanzure> and have separate channels for controlling various valves
15:23 -!- shepazu [~schepers@87-194-154-182.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:24 < fenn> i think they just use silicon as the substrate because it fits in the photolithography machine
15:25 < fenn> kanzure do you know if the laser pump idea works for actuating hydraulic valves?
15:26 < fenn> though you wouldnt really need valves if you had a laser pump...
15:26 < kanzure> heh
15:26  * fenn chases his tail and it falls off
15:26 < kanzure> damn furries
15:26 < kanzure> get off my lawn
15:26 < QuantumG> anyone done magnetic separation of fluids in PDMS?
15:27 < fenn> magnetic separation of fluids?
15:27 < kanzure> Capture of DNA in microfluidic channel using magnetic beads - increasing capture efficiency with integrated mixer http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Capture%20of%20DNA%20in%20microfluidic%20channel%20using%20magnetic%20beads%20-%20increasing%20capture%20efficiency%20with%20integrated%20mixer.pdf
15:27 < fenn> like, liquid oxygen? (only magnetic fluid i konw of)
15:27 < kanzure> Discrete magnetic microfluidics on superhydrophobic surfaces using magnetic fields http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Discrete%20magnetic%20microfluidics%20on%20superhydrophobic%20surfaces%20using%20magnetic%20fields.pdf
15:28 < QuantumG> k, I'll read all these and see if I get knowledge :)
15:28 < fenn> i wonder if mark hayes is related to sean hayes (arizona state, last paper)
15:28 < kanzure> QuantumG: i don't suggest reading the last two links i pasted
15:28 < kanzure> the pdms pdfs that fenn and i pasted links to are worth reading
15:29 < QuantumG> yup, that's the plan
15:29 < fenn> oh, "sean hays" nevermind
15:29 < fenn> curses, my name hashing algorithm has been revealed!
15:31 < kanzure> fenn: did you read in here the other day when i found out about the "cancer-resistant mice" and livly.org?
15:31 < kanzure> i was pretty upset
15:32 < fenn> hm?
15:32 < fenn> no, i didnt
15:32 < fenn> gimme the dirt
15:35 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/chats/bioinformatics-and-livly.log
15:35 < kanzure> it's not all relevant- you'll have to skip around to the points where i'm sending messages i guess
15:35 < QuantumG> wow, those two pdfs are pretty far away from a HOWTO
15:35 < kanzure> which ones
15:35 < kanzure> the pmds ones or the designfiles.org links
15:35 < QuantumG> pdmscasting.pdf and PDMS_MMolding_and_bonding.pdf
15:36 < kanzure> yeah, science protocols are notoriously terrible
15:36 < kanzure> gee don't you want SKDB and instruction generation? :)
15:37 < fenn> tl;dr: jon wants $100k to sequence a mouse genome, so what?
15:37 < kanzure> fenn: including the mice stuff in that log, btw. that's part of the relevance.
15:37 < kanzure> um, well you missed it then
15:37 < kanzure> livly.org going corporate? after taking equipment donations as a non-profit?
15:38 < QuantumG> ignoring how many of the words I have only a vague idea of: weight boat, desiccator
15:38 < QuantumG> that's fine, I can learn that..
15:38 < QuantumG> neither of them say anything about making patterns in the mold..
15:39 < QuantumG> oh, another word: Tare
15:39 < kanzure> usually it's a photolithography setup over a thin layer of SU8 to make a mold
15:39 < kanzure> however, there are many alternatives to this sort of PDMS setup
15:40 < kanzure> wax printing http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Rapid%20prototyping%20of%20microfluidic%20devices%20with%20a%20wax%20printer.pdf
15:40 < kanzure> laser-patterned tape http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Rapid%20prototyping%20of%20microfluidic%20systems%20using%20a%20laser-patterned%20tape.pdf
15:40 < kanzure> paper+tape http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Three-dimensional%20microfluidic%20devices%20fabricated%20in%20layered%20paper%20and%20tape.pdf
15:40 < kanzure> here's an article from wetPONG that isn't up any more
15:40 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/wetPONG%20%c2%bb%20Homemade%20Microfluidics%20using%20adhesive%20tape.html
15:40 < kanzure> "homemade microfluidics using adhesive tape"
15:41 < kanzure> actually, read that one. :)
15:41 < QuantumG> ok, so say you've got your PDMS.. now you need to inject a fluid right?  you just use a syringe? 
15:41 < kanzure> there's also shrinky dinks:
15:41 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Shrinky-Dink%20microfluidics:%203D%20polystyrene%20chips.pdf
15:41 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Shrinky-Dink%20microfluidics:%20rapid%20generation%20of%20deep%20and%20rounded%20patterns.pdf
15:41 < kanzure> well, yes and no
15:42 < kanzure> you could use a syringe, a syringe pump, a pipette, but also sometimes an eye dropper depending on what you're doing
15:42 < kanzure> for instance, if you're doing surface tension devices, you can just use an eye dropper
15:42 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HrRuaLFGmY
15:42 < kanzure> i'm not too sure about fluid inputs when you're using a pump to control hydraulic valves or something
15:42 < QuantumG> how wide is that channel?
15:42 < kanzure> whitesides did this really hawt review on ways to control valves in microfluidics
15:43 < kanzure> QuantumG: in the youtube video? i dunno. the youtube description for that vid has a citation to a paper, though
15:43 < kanzure> and the paper probably says
15:43 < kanzure> now, that's surface tension- which doesn't use a pump, or any valve control
15:43 < kanzure> kind of like the sharpie microfluidics stuff http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/msg/1197606e3c3dc439 (no pumps or whatever)
15:44 < kanzure> at one point i was getting kind of crazy and was using a piece of hair and drawing sharpie over it, to get a straight 100micron channel width.. heh
15:45 < kanzure> A screw-actuated pneumatic valve for portable, disposable microfluidics http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/A%20screw-actuated%20pneumatic%20valve%20for%20portable,%20disposable%20microfluidics.pdf
15:45 < kanzure> A simple pneumatic setup for driving microfluidics http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/A%20simple%20pneumatic%20setup%20for%20driving%20microfluidics.pdf
15:45 < kanzure> a review of microvalves http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Review%20-%20A%20review%20of%20microvalves%20-%202006.pdf
15:46 < kanzure> re: paper-based microfluidics; Bioactive paper provides a low-cost platform for diagnostics http://designfiles.org/papers/whitesides/Bioactive%20paper%20provides%20a%20low-cost%20platform%20for%20diagnostics.pdf
15:46 < kanzure> on that same note re: paper as the substrate; Diagnostics for the Developing World - Microfluidic Paper-Based Analytical Devices http://designfiles.org/papers/whitesides/Diagnostics%20for%20the%20Developing%20World%20-%20Microfluidic%20Paper-Based%20Analytical%20Devices.pdf
15:47 < kanzure> FLASH - A rapid method for prototyping paper-based microfluidic devices http://designfiles.org/papers/whitesides/FLASH%20-%20A%20rapid%20method%20for%20prototyping%20paper-based%20microfluidic%20devices.pdf
15:47 < kanzure> Low-Cost Printing of PDMS Barriers to Define Microchannels in Paper http://designfiles.org/papers/whitesides/Low-Cost%20Printing%20of%20PDMS%20Barriers%20to%20Define%20Microchannels%20in%20Paper.pdf
15:47 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:47 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:48 < kanzure> i don't seem to have the whitesides review of pneumatic valves- it might have been a quake paper.
15:48 < kanzure> at any rate, 'review of microvalves' might be sufficient if you want to go that route
15:48 < QuantumG> so what can you do with it?
15:49 < kanzure> it=?
15:49 < kanzure> a valve?
15:49 < QuantumG> what applications are there that have been done at a DIY scale?
15:50 < kanzure> analyte mixing & simple chemistry experiments (look! it changes colors!), fluid actuation, unintentional bacteria culture, PCR (but i don't know if a DIYer did one or not yet)
15:51 < QuantumG> was about to ask that :)
15:52 < kanzure> there's lots of papers in /papers/microfluidics/ on PCR riggups
15:52 < kanzure> one that i like is a spiral where the four corners have a different heat or cooling source
15:52 < kanzure> but there's also some others like laser-based heating/cooling of a droplet with your polymerase and dNTPs and DNA etc.
15:53 < kanzure> (not very microfluidic if you're just using a laser + petri dish, i guess.. but the droplet is tiny, does that count)
15:53 < QuantumG> you could use it as part of a microfluidic system
15:53 < kanzure> sure
15:53 < kanzure> that's what fenn was talking about earlier, actually
15:54 < kanzure> laser-induced force on a microdroplet http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Laser-induced%20force%20on%20a%20microfluidic%20drop%20-%20origin%20and%20magnitude.pdf
15:54 < kanzure> non-contact based manipulation with lasers http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Non-contact%20Mesoscale%20Manipulation%20Using%20Laser%20Induced%20Convection%20Flows%20-%20480%20nm%20(infrared)%20laser.pdf
15:54 < kanzure> PCR + lasers: http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/PCR%20-%20Nanodroplet%20real-time%20PCR%20system%20with%20laser%20assisted%20heating.pdf
15:54 < kanzure> another one: http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Petri%20dish%20PCR%20-%20laser-heated%20reactions%20in%20nanoliter%20droplet%20arrays.pdf
15:55 < kanzure> whole blood pumped by laser-driven micropump http://designfiles.org/papers/Whole%20Blood%20Pumped%20by%20Laser%20Driven%20Micropump.pdf
15:55 < kanzure> Diode laser generated ultrasound for human blood cell lysis http://designfiles.org/papers/Diode%20laser%20generated%20ultrasound%20for%20human%20blood%20cell%20lysis.pdf
15:55 < kanzure> i <3 lasers
15:56 < pmetzger> "do not stare into laser with remaining eye."
15:57 < kanzure> pmetzger: have you seen the papers on acoustic shockwaves generated by lasers?
15:57 < kanzure> "laser-induced cavitation"
15:57 < kanzure> or "laser-based ultrasound"
15:57 < QuantumG> damn you Keanu Reeves!
15:57 < pmetzger> I've vaguely heard that you could induce shockwaves with lasers but no, haven't read anything on the subject.
15:57 < pmetzger> It is a bit far from my normal stomping ground...
15:58 < kanzure> well, if you ever get interested in it: http://designfiles.org/papers/Aspects%20of%20laser-generated%20acoustic%20shock%20waves%20in%20air.pdf
15:59 < pmetzger> for now I have too much to learn. :)
16:00 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:00 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:17 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:18 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:19 < kanzure> jrayhawk: http://www.di.fm/mp3/vocaltrance.pls is play dj doboy, which is slightly better than the other stuff. try now?
16:31 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:31 < jrayhawk> This is neither animaniacs nor gangster rap. People listen to such a thing?
16:31 -!- jcluck [~cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:34 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:37 < kanzure> meredith sez: "so apparently the royal society is making their entire archive all the way back to 1665 available for free until july 30th"
16:37 < kanzure> time to write a scraper!
16:37 < kanzure> http://royalsocietypublishing.org/journals
16:37 < pmetzger> please!
16:37 < kanzure> bwahaha
16:38 < kanzure> does anyone have a lot of storage space i can abuse with a few hundred gigabytes of downloads
16:38 < kanzure> also preferably with a good connection
16:38 < kanzure> designfiles.org is quickly running out of storage space
16:38 < jrayhawk> So long as you don't do it too fast, you can use your Bart vserver.
16:38 < kanzure> wah-hey, fantastic
16:39 < kanzure> now i just need to make sure i do it with metadata
16:39 < jrayhawk> I guess you could also use cysteine, at which point we don't really care about bandwidth usage at all.
16:40 < kanzure> ok great
16:40 < jrayhawk> Actually, yeah, that'll work out better. Let me go increase the raided volume size
16:43 < jrayhawk> Okay, you can shove that stuff somewhere in /torrents/. Probably not in /torrents/tmp, we tend to delete that on occasion.
16:43 < kanzure> heh
16:43 < jrayhawk> I just added another 200G
16:43 < kanzure> okay, that sounds like it should do it
16:44 < kanzure> "An Accompt of the Improvement of Optick Glasses" 1665
16:47 < kanzure> gah meredith was doing a blanket wget on it...
16:47 < kanzure> DON'T DO THAT
16:47 < kanzure> just fyi :)
16:53 < fenn> what's with the weird time limit
16:54 < kanzure> maybe they are challenging me
16:54 < fenn> aside from the coolness of the word "tortuosity", why do we care about laser shockwaves in air?
16:54 -!- ybit3 [47e4bc09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.228.188.9] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:58 < ybit3> how to make su-8?
16:58 < kanzure> heh pretty cool.. browsing through some of the archive pages
16:58 < ybit3> http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/SU-8%20a%20low-cost%20negative%20resist%20for%20MEMS.pdf doesn't give very good details
16:58 < kanzure>     *  Anthony van Leeuwenhoeck
16:59 < kanzure> An Extract of a Letter from Mr. Anthony Van Leeuwenhoeck, F. R. S. Dated October the 12th. 1713. Concerning the Fibres of the Muscles, &c. 
16:59  * kanzure knows that name :)
16:59 < kanzure> ybit3: most people buy it :(
16:59 < ybit3> kanzure: the whitesides paper mentioned that they used a home-made version of it but don't reference a paper or anything
17:07 < ybit3> the patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=8943AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
17:18 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:34 < kanzure> how should i organize this scrape?
17:35 < kanzure> should i do journal/volume_id/paper_name.pdf?
17:35 < QuantumG> http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0908/0908.0575.pdf
17:35 < QuantumG> neat
17:36 < kanzure> egeste: gah he's scratching at windows to get out (like a gerbil)
17:36 < kanzure> it's kind of pathetic
17:45 -!- ybit3 [47e4bc09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.228.188.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:46 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:47 < egeste> kanzure: when do you think he'll be ready to go outside?
17:48 < kanzure> soon. a week or so?
17:48 < egeste> he's going to love it
17:48 < kanzure> egeste: i am hesitant about the heat, though :/
17:48 < egeste> well
17:48 < egeste> as long as he knows he can come home to ac and food
17:48 < egeste> he'll be fine
17:48 < kanzure> sure.
17:49 < kanzure> right now he's perplexed about the other cat in the window (his reflection)
17:49 < egeste> lol
17:49 < kanzure> however, he doesn't fall for the mirror
17:49 < egeste> yeah, he's not too bright in taht regard
17:49 < kanzure> http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/06/22/velosynth-bicycle-mounted-synth-is-open-source-hackable-potentially-useful/
17:49 < kanzure> http://hackaday.com/2010/06/22/ti-makes-a-big-bid-for-the-hobby-market/
17:51 < kanzure> $4.30? hrm
17:52 < kanzure> "Mouser (the vendor TI points to from the wiki) is currently showing 9,848 have been pre-ordered and the first 398 will ship July 5th. I'm guessing an order now will take a while to ship."
18:02 < bkero> haha
18:02 < bkero> Yea
18:02 < bkero> How could TI not expect this?
18:39 < fenn> http://www.designaside.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/josh-keyes02.jpg
18:39 < fenn> i'm always stupendified by the number of people at QS meetups
18:45 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279558942.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:45 < kanzure> hi Alystair 
18:45 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:47 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:47 < mheld> hey y'all
18:48 < pmetzger> hola.
18:50 < mheld> how's it going, pmetzger?
18:57 < pmetzger> not so bad. :)
19:09 -!- jcluck [~cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:10 -!- cluckj [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:12 -!- cluckj [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:14 -!- cluckj [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:16 -!- heath [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:17 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:18 -!- cluckj [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:18 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:20 < kanzure> http://diyvictoria.com/
19:20 < kanzure> hm it's not there yet
19:22 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:22 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:35 < kanzure> http://brlcad.org/wiki/Spiral
19:37 < kanzure> fenn: i think this is why i vowed to stop writing shit in perl
19:50 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:50 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:55 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:55 -!- heath [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:01 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:01 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:03 -!- mheld is now known as mheld|away
20:15 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@69.86.203.77] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
21:24 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:24 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:31 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:31 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:34 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:35 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:40 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:47 < kanzure> http://www.protohat.com/
21:47 -!- mheld|away [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:04 -!- mheld|away [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:35 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:35 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:40 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:40 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:46 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:50 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
22:56 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:01 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:01 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:09 -!- splicer [~foo@92.39.2.17] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:22 < fenn> i chatted with josh perfetto today and i think your concerns about livly are unfounded
23:22 < fenn> first of all they never had any money, and secondly "livly" itself is more or less defunct
23:23 < fenn> jon got some venture funding to investigate his cancer mouse, "immunepath", and eri is steering the biohackerspace stuff towards biocurious
23:47 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:56 < fenn> http://www.mapofscience.com/poster.html
23:58 < jcluck> where the hell am I on there D:
23:58 < jcluck> there are no yellow dots near the green ones!