--- Day changed Tue Jun 29 2010
00:20 < kanzure> carbon hype! http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplus-summit-2010/d1s1-3-andrew-hessel.html
00:21 < kanzure> choo-choo! let's all get aboard the carbon express.
00:30 < genehacker> diamond train?
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01:41 < Alystair> hm this is unhealthy
01:41 < Alystair> 55 hours with no sleep so far
01:41 < Alystair> maybe I should pass out
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04:21 < kanzure> biocurious on makezine http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/06/biocurious_a_hackerspace_for_biotec.html
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06:53 < pmetzger> morning.
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06:58 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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07:14 < phryk> Morning to you, too.
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07:25 < streety> afternoon
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07:32 < pmetzger> morning
07:37 < kanzure> pmetzger: how did the meeting go last night
07:37 < pmetzger> not bad. Went through chapter 1.
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08:15 < kanzure> "citsci genomics study"
08:16 < kanzure> wtf
08:16 < kanzure> http://www.odesk.com/jobs/Biology-Blog-Bootstrap_~~5937b95b671c3777
08:16 < kanzure> "am looking for someone to find articles on Biohacking and home biology labs. "
08:16 < kanzure> someone is hiring someone to find articles for them?
08:16 < kanzure> but what about: http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F
08:17 < streety> fairly standard for the spam blogs
08:18 < streety> pay someone in a developing country to write low quality but 'unique' posts and then throw up advertising and wait for the long tail search results
08:21 < pmetzger> I'm really worried about all that infosmog eventually fucking the net.
08:21 < pmetzger> luckily google seems to rate such things very low.
08:24 < streety> It depends a lot on the query.  Clearly they receive enough visitors for the site to be profitable on average
08:25 < kanzure> pmetzger: you know about 'autoblogs'?
08:25 < pmetzger> not under that name, but I can guess what they are.
08:26 < pmetzger> scrapers + publish = make a few pennies here and there.
08:26 < pmetzger> and reduce the quality of information on the network.
08:26 < pmetzger> I had a friend who made a few hundred k a year for a couple of years gaming google before google figured it out...
08:27 < kanzure> basically what some of them do is scrape the google.com/trends site and then find blogs that have that content
08:27 < kanzure> then you ride the spike for 'trending topics'
08:27 < kanzure> of course, there are others that just scrape rss feed data from whatever sites the spammers are targeting
08:28 < streety> bonus points for automatic domain registration, automatic customisation of templates etc
08:28  * kanzure nods
08:28 < kanzure> i cry a little bit every day for knowing any of that.
08:30 < pmetzger> and then archive.org preserves the crap forever.
08:30 < pmetzger> I hate spammers of all sorts. Sigh.
08:38 < kanzure> maybe i should throw up some kickstarter projects
08:38 < kanzure> and then throw money at the projects
08:38 < kanzure> to artificially inflate their popularity?
08:38 < kanzure> O_o
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08:42 < streety> what sort of fees does kickstarter charge?
08:43 < streety> 5% apparently which isn't too bad
08:43 < kanzure> 5%
08:43 < kanzure> http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq#WhatFeesDoesKickChar
08:44 < streety> 1-2% above credit card fees
08:45 < streety> catch you later
08:45 < kanzure> cya
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09:03 < kanzure> "where is diybio right now?"
09:03 < kanzure> "somewhere between the kitchen and the garden"
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09:28 < JayDugger> Good afternoon, everyone. See you all this evening.
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10:29 < kanzure> "And an FDA devices DIYBio meetup on Thursday the 24th" anybody have the details on this?
10:30 < bkero> Everybody's going to show up and get V&'d for being POTENTIAL BIOTERRISTS
10:30 < genehacker> FDA and DIYbio?
10:32 < kanzure> federal death administration
10:32 < kanzure> or is it fascist death administration?
10:33 < genehacker> fascist death administration
10:33 < genehacker> according to some rightwing radio personalities I think
10:33 < kanzure> http://www.meetup.com/BioCurious/calendar/13781670/ 
10:33 < kanzure> "
10:33 < kanzure> "The Business of Drug and Device Development - regulation and approval essentials
10:33 < kanzure> "
10:33 < kanzure> "The Business of Drug and Device Development - what you need to know about regulation and the approval process "
10:34 < kanzure> host: srihari yamanoor
10:34 < kanzure> "As an entrepreneur, one of the most important balls you will juggle will be regulation. As you get more serious about your endeavor and seek funds you will notice that investors and others will seek out your "regulatory plan". It is key to develop a thorough understanding of the regulatory process, what the FDA looks for, and the strategies companies adopt to ensure as smooth an approval process as possible."
10:34 < kanzure> "The class will discuss the approval processes primarily focused on drugs and medical devices. We will talk about the different stages of the approval process involved in therapeutics. This will be followed by a discussion on medical device approval process. We will discuss the various classes of medical devices, how to determine the classification of your device.
10:34 < genehacker> it's long and arduous
10:34 < kanzure> "Frequently, your devices and drugs will go through clinical trials in Europe, Mexico and other locations. We will discuss the need for this, how to initiate clinical trials in these locations, and how to work with the FDA throughout the process to ensure that the trials meet the standards for safety and effectiveness, essential for approval."
10:34 < kanzure> this is pretty crazy
10:34 < genehacker> WE'LL JUST CALL IT A SUPPLEMENT INSTEAD
10:34 < kanzure> why is this being hosted at biocurious
10:34 < bkero> HERBAL SUPPLEMENT
10:35 < bkero> All natural
10:35 < kanzure> while i fully support proper device testing, why not just make it a kit for a device instead of selling the device
10:35 < genehacker> HERBAL POTASSIUM DICHROMATE
10:35 < kanzure> let the person who sells the fully assembled device bare the cost of FDA nonsense
10:36 < genehacker> someone managed to pass off potassium dichromate as a supplement
10:36 < genehacker> results weren't pretty as potassium dichromate is an excellent oxidizing agent
10:36 < pmetzger> DIY and regulation are not very compatible.
10:36 < genehacker> pmetzger
10:37 < pmetzger> the whole diy spirit is to play with things without spending much cash.
10:37 < genehacker> I got some books for you
10:37 < pmetzger> try to innovate in a lightweight way.
10:37 < pmetzger> genehacker: what sort of books? :)
10:37 < pmetzger> I own too many books. :)
10:37 < genehacker> engineering books
10:37 < pmetzger> OOOH! :)
10:37 < AJollyLife> blasphemy!
10:37 < AJollyLife> what is this "too many books" you speak of
10:38 < pmetzger> No, seriously. I live in a 900sqft apartment, and every wall is bookshelves.
10:38 < kanzure> hmm derek jacoby is at singularity university
10:38 < pmetzger> And I no longer have space on said bookshelves.
10:38 < pmetzger> jacobi you mean?
10:39 < pmetzger> The last time I re-orged the books to fit, I took about 20 book moving boxes down to the used bookstore to sell and I didn't notice the change in the size of my collection.
10:39 < kanzure> pmetzger: no, it's Derek Jacoby <derekja@gmail.com>
10:39 < AJollyLife> i guess i can understand that.  i have been trying to shift more to e-books where possible
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10:44 < bkero> AJollyLife: epub? :3
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10:45 < AJollyLife> bkero: mostly. i've got a nook, and it works quite well with epub
10:45 < kanzure> gah i need to keep 'ryan bethencourt' and 'ryan ogle' separate in my mind. ogle is the one who runs genoblasts.com, right?
10:45 < bkero> AJollyLife: I went the nook route as well.  Have you had much luck converting PDFs?
10:45 < AJollyLife> bkero: try calibre, but i usually dont bother with pdf's on the nook
10:46 < AJollyLife> there is also a nookdevs channel :)
10:46 < bkero> I have a 10 gig PDF collection.  ePubs are harder to come by
10:46 < bkero> s/come by/pirate/
10:46 < lepton> I just got a Hanvon N516 and I'm running openinkpot on it
10:46 < lepton> I'm pretty happy
10:46 < lepton> Though it's PDF display is very so-so
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10:46 < lepton> Not as good as my old Booken Cybook 3, 
10:47 < AJollyLife> its not as nice as my old irex illiads, but more durable
10:47 < lepton> I've had moderatly good success converting my PDF library (for novels, not journal articles) into epub
10:47 < bkero> lepton: how much did you pay for it if you don't mind me asking?
10:47 < lepton> I used calibre for the conversion^
10:47 < lepton> $200
10:47 < AJollyLife> the nook wifi only is only $!50
10:47 < AJollyLife> *150*
10:47 < lepton> I'm thinking about CNCing an aluminum replacement for it's plastic body
10:48 < bkero> Nook with 3G is only $200 :P
10:48 < lepton> I know! That's what made me decide to get an ebook again
10:48 < AJollyLife> meh, i would have bought the wifi only one if I had a choice
10:48 < lepton> But the n516 seemed nice to mee
10:49 < bkero> I'd have paid the $150 too, I paid $260 instead for the 3G
10:49 < lepton> I almost went with the nook... I had hoped openinkpot would do better with PDF's than the nook
10:49 < lepton> but I don't think that's the case
10:49 < bkero> Nook PDF problems are entirely the screen
10:49 < bkero> That screen doesn't look much better :/
10:49 < AJollyLife> its not high enough resolution really
10:50 < genehacker> don't use aluminium, it has no fatigue limit
10:50 < genehacker> and thus will develop random fractures over repeated load cycles
10:51 < bkero> genehacker: What's a load cycle in the context of an ebook reader?
10:51 < genehacker> being jostled around in a backpack
10:51 < bkero> It's very hard to quantify that into cycles :P
10:52 < genehacker> there are ways to make reasonable guesses
10:52 < genehacker> my laptop has undergone sufficient load cycles that it has developed fatigue cracks
10:53 < genehacker> reasonable guesses are what they use to make sure airplanes don't fall out of the sky
10:53 < bkero> Sure, but they usually base that off empirical evidence
10:57 < lepton> bkero: it's actually pretty easy to calculate
10:57 < lepton> You're right about that as aluminum's failure mechanism, but that's pretty trivial for something like an ebook reader, imo
10:58 < lepton> Compared to plastic with an ebook screen, if a machine out an aluminum case, I'll be better off :)
10:58 < lepton> *eink screen
10:59 < AJollyLife> the smaller size ebook readers are not too bad, but I had two illiads die on me :(
11:00 < lepton> My cybook died pretty quickly (6") from me accidently sitting on it
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11:03 < bkero> lol
11:04 < bkero> I really want an eink screen in a laptop
11:04 < bkero> Since all I use a laptop for is firefox and a terminal, I think I'd be alright
11:04 < AJollyLife> hmm. not sure if there is a vnc client yet for the nook
11:04 < AJollyLife> there is a vnc server..
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11:05 < bkero> Nook is a bit too sluggish running android for something like that to be very usable
11:05 < bkero> I still think that the browser is a joke
11:05 < AJollyLife> im pretty sure the eink refresh rate is slower than the hardware
11:06 < lepton> I've found that openinkpot seems to hang if I press a button while the screen is refreshing
11:06 < lepton> Which is sad, I don't have having to reset the device twice in one coffee shop sitting :/
11:06 < lepton> That disrupts my smug sense of satisfaction about running open software on all my devices
11:06 < AJollyLife> im fairly happy with my nook
11:07 < bkero> I've only had a single hardware problem with it
11:07 < bkero> The side buttons for page flips
11:07 < bkero> Plastic is a bit too brittle, it cracked on one side.
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11:21 < AJollyLife> bkero: go tell b&n they will replace it
11:21 < bkero> AJollyLife: Really?
11:21 < bkero> It's pretty small, almost trivial.  I can only see it if I look at the side while I press the button
11:22 < AJollyLife> bkero: yeah, you are not the only one to have that problem
11:22 < bkero> Really?
11:22 < bkero> They'll just replace it?
11:22 < AJollyLife> yep
11:22 < bkero> Well shit
11:22 < bkero> Awesome
11:22 < AJollyLife> yeah, i was not going to bother, then someone in the nookdevs forum said they had the same issue
11:22 < bkero> I can do it in person?
11:22 < AJollyLife> im hoping they fixed it with newer revisions
11:22 < AJollyLife> dont know about that
11:23 < AJollyLife> but if you call b&n they will ship you a new nook, and you just pack up your old one and send it back, they pay for shipping
11:23 < AJollyLife> so the only annoyance is having to resoftroot your nook
11:23 < AJollyLife> (assuming you softrooted it)
11:23 < bkero> Awesome
11:23 < bkero> I haven't softrooted it even
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11:24  * bkero has to go for lunch, but I'll continue this dialogue
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11:41 < pmetzger> http://wondermark.com/634/
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11:41 < pmetzger> if one has a CNC and can machine aluminum cases for one's e-reader, then even if they crack, one can machine a new case at will. :)
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11:44 < AJollyLife> but the real danger is the screen getting damaged
11:44 < AJollyLife> not the case
11:49 < pmetzger> for me the real issue is that I only care about 8.5x11 PDFs in practice.
11:49 < pmetzger> I want an e-reader that does *that*. :)
11:52 < lepton> That's what I'm wanting, too
11:53 < lepton> Why bother having a library of 10,000 technical papers, when you can't take them anywhere without a laptop or way too much paper
11:53 < pmetzger> Maybe a commercial screen and laptop in a custom case....
11:53 < pmetzger> I take my laptop everywhere anyway.
11:53 < pmetzger> the problem for me is only that the laptop is too distracting and consumes too much power.
11:56 < AJollyLife> pmetzger: this is why i usually bring my netbook to conferences
11:57 < pmetzger> netbooks are too small for me.
11:57 < pmetzger> My hands cramp.
11:57 < pmetzger> and the screens are tiny.
11:57 < pmetzger> I use a 17" MacBook for a reason...
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12:00 < AJollyLife> yeah, netbook is for travel/conferences
12:01 < pmetzger> I carry the 17" laptop everywhere. I have a backpack with a special pocket for it from Tom Bihn.
12:01 < AJollyLife> i <3 my tom bihn bags
12:02 < pmetzger> I never see any reason to use another machine EXCEPT that I'd like a lightweight thing with O(24h) battery life and no function other than reading ebooks to keep me from getting distracted while reading.
12:02 < pmetzger> to avoid continuous partial attention in other words.
12:06 < AJollyLife> i <3 my nook for travel, and it also fits nicely in my blazer pocket
12:09 < klafka> AJollyLife, tom bihn bags are awesome
12:09 < pmetzger> too small for my technical PDFs, UI isn't great, proprietary interfaces.
12:09 < pmetzger> (nook)
12:09 < pmetzger> but I do like the general idea of the nook and kindle.
12:09 < AJollyLife> klafka: pmetzger: i own two tom bihn bags
12:10 < klafka> i've never known anyone else to know about them
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12:10 < klafka> i have the brain bag
12:10 < pmetzger> the one is generally enough for me. I can put two days of clothes and my tools in it and go.
12:10 < klafka> yeah i can fit a bunch of clothes + laptop + cables
12:11 < pmetzger> I have a brain bag + snake charmer for my cables.
12:11 < pmetzger> 17" brain cell.
12:11 < klafka> aah i should get a snake charmer thing
12:11 < pmetzger> and a freudian slip for my notebooks etc.
12:11 < AJollyLife> ive got a brainbag and a....um
12:12 < AJollyLife> i had a braincell then lost it in india
12:12 < pmetzger> I sometimes think about getting a scott evest.
12:12 < AJollyLife> i have a brainbag and an aeronaut
12:12 < AJollyLife> pmetzger: ive had lots of scottevests
12:12 < AJollyLife> im wearing one right now
12:12 < AJollyLife> id have more but my stupid ex'gfs dog ate them
12:12 < AJollyLife> er. actually, i should say my ex gf's stupid dog.
12:13 < AJollyLife> pmetzger: every year they have an anniversary sale, around the start of the year. wait for then for the best deals
12:14 < pmetzger> problem is, I don't need one enough, and in the summer they're probably too hot, at least in NY.
12:14 < AJollyLife> i would not pay full retail...and you could easily wear the lighter ones in nyc
12:14 < AJollyLife> I mostly wear mine indoors here in florida
12:15 < pmetzger> I think you may have different standards for the temperature range you find comfortable.
12:15 < AJollyLife> probably, im usually cold
12:15 < pmetzger> I'm generally too warm except in quite frigid temperatures.
12:15 < klafka> hmm i've never heard of these before
12:15 < klafka> the first and only line of ipad compatible clothing
12:15 < klafka> lol
12:16 < AJollyLife> ive been wearing them for 5 years or so
12:16 < klafka> do they have weather ratings on them?
12:16 < AJollyLife> so convenient
12:16 < AJollyLife> they have a page someplace showing which ones they suggest for what sort of weather
12:16 < klafka> aah
12:17 < pmetzger> photographers vests are another option I've considered but they're less attractive.
12:17 < klafka> the cold of rochester ny is far more severe than most hoodies can ahndle
12:17 < klafka> *handle
12:18 < AJollyLife> pmetzger: it depends what you want to use them for, depending on the model you can get some really nie scott-e-vests
12:18 < AJollyLife> most of the models i really liked they dont sell anymore though :(
12:19 < klafka> they are wicked pricey
12:19 < AJollyLife> klafka: i would not pay retail for them, their best sale every year is the anniversary sale sometime near the start of the year
12:20 < klafka> cool
12:20 < klafka> yeah
12:20 < klafka> wise man
12:36 < kanzure> weird scipy 2008 animation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnaF24aVWTE
12:44 < kanzure> i'm looking over old slides to scipy conferences
12:44 < kanzure> http://conference.scipy.org/SciPy2009/slides.html
12:44 < kanzure> http://conference.scipy.org/SciPy2008/slides.html
12:44 < kanzure> in general the slides tend to suck
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12:44 < kanzure> and there doesn't seem to be any videos on the net
12:45 < kanzure> any suggestions for how to do the presentations tomorrow?
12:46 < AJollyLife> kanzure: what are you trying to do?
12:47 < kanzure> what? i'm trying to prep for a good presentation :P
12:48 < kanzure> i'm presenting on pythonOCC and datapkg
12:48 < AJollyLife> good books on slide development include slideology, and presentationzen
12:49 < kanzure> go look at the scipy2008 slides (linked above)
12:49 < kanzure> it doesn't look like the audience is going to be happy with slides without ridiculously long blocks of text & code
12:49 < pmetzger> doing a good presentation is mostly a matter of having done a lot of presentations and having seen a lot of them. it is hard to teach.
12:50 < AJollyLife> kanzure: thats not a presentation, thats a document
12:50 < kanzure> well how do these technical conferences work anyway?
12:50 < kanzure> are you supposed to present code and best practices, or just pictures and rhetoric?
12:50 < kanzure> i presented at texas linux fest earlier this year, and it went over mildly okay
12:51 < kanzure> but i have a feeling i should have been more technical
12:51 < kanzure> seeing as how the people in the audience /built/ debian and the kernel..
12:51 < kanzure> the people in my audience are probably core python devs and swig devs
12:51 < AJollyLife> yeah, really depends on teh audience. at the least you need the more technical info available
12:53 < kanzure> ah here's a presentation from pycon08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR3rIVLjA-U
12:55 < lepton> I really like your "pull a debian on physical objects" line (I'm sure I'm misquoting)
12:55 < lepton> That's a good one to throw out
12:56 < kanzure> :)
12:56 < kanzure> it only works when people have used debian
12:56 < kanzure> which is like 0.00001% of the target audience
12:56 < kanzure> or something
12:57 < kanzure> lepton: btw, skdb development is going to kick back up again once i finish with this damn pystep minilibrary thingy
12:57 < lepton> Yeah, I gues the Linux Fest is really the ideal for those sorts of comments
12:57 < kanzure> to be honest i didn't get a /ton/ of feedback from the linux fest audience
12:57 < kanzure> i got about 5 people interested and talking with me
12:57 < kanzure> whereas hplus summit was more like 15 to 25 follow-ups
12:58 < AJollyLife> h+ was a very engaged crowd
12:58 < kanzure> the linux fest seemed to be more focused on "year of the desktop" 
12:58 < lepton> Nice to hear on skdb dev
12:59 < kanzure> commits have been dwindling, if you haven't noticed ;)
12:59 < lepton> We're pretty interested in trying to integrate some of our projects into skdb as test runs, or such
12:59 < lepton> Haven't noticed
12:59 < lepton> I've had my head stuck in EMC2 land for the past month
12:59 < klafka> what does "pull a debian" mean
13:00 < kanzure> for now the skdb workflow looks like: start a .git repository -> commit your designs (hopefully in openscad or pystep, or at worst STEP/IGES but not STL) -> define "interfaces" on the devices
13:00 < kanzure> the interface definition is so that we can do assembly CAD
13:00 < kanzure> like linking up two different CAD objects at their two specified interface vectors
13:00 < kanzure> i.e. a screw in a hole..
13:04 < kanzure> also, just so that you can yell at me later
13:04 < kanzure> one of the recent 'additions' that hasn't been really an addition is the acceptance of stub packages
13:04 < kanzure> so that we can do dependency resolution even without having those dependencies resolved.
13:04 < kanzure> i.e. here's a lot of stub packages: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/thingiverse/thingiverse_packages/
13:05 < kanzure> also while i'm at it
13:06 < kanzure> i need someone with a makerbot or reprap to really ride my ass about hooking up skdb to a 3d goo squirter
13:06 < kanzure> i.e. to demonstrate an apt-get-then-build-it-for-realz-yo workflow.
13:08 < cluckj> that would rule
13:09 < kanzure> klafka: "pull a debian" means that we use package maintainers to offset the pains of users. do you use apt-get?
13:09 < fenn> i love how one of the features is 'nonradioactive' http://usa.hanvon.com/e-book_reader/196.shtml
13:09 < klafka> aah
13:10 < klafka> kanzure, no i don't use any debian based OS atm
13:10 < kanzure> maybe there was a radioactive book reader in the past
13:10 < klafka> but i am familiar w/ it
13:10 < kanzure> and everyone got cancer in the eye
13:20 < AJollyLife> im hoping what they are trying to say is they use nonemitting screens
13:20 < fenn> wow the nook is only 480x144?
13:20 < AJollyLife> im sure its more than that
13:21 < AJollyLife> the eink side is 800x600
13:21 < fenn> oh it has multiple displays?
13:21 < AJollyLife> i think you mean the lcd part is only 480x144
13:21 < AJollyLife> it has a top eink screen, and a bottom touch sensitive lcd screen
13:21 < fenn> oh, right, so i can see the fancy book cover art P
13:22 < fenn> "i hope you werent planning on imagining the main character as other than the hollywood interpretation"
13:27 < fenn> i love how it was 1984 that Amazon deleted remotely.. almost makes you wonder if it was some kind of prank
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13:48 < kanzure> fenn: any last minute suggestions for my pythonOCC talk and datapkg talk?
13:48 < kanzure> pythonocc talk is 20min, datapkg is 10min
13:48 < kanzure> oops, pythonocc is 15min
13:49 < kanzure> oh it's at the at&t building at utexas.edu, convenient.
13:51 < fenn> is pythonocc actually pythonic yet?
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13:52 < fenn> i.e. does it segfault if you forget to intialize some thingybopper before using it
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13:52 < kanzure> fenn: thomas and jelle will tell you to look at Level2API.py but it sucks.
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13:52 < kanzure> so, no
13:53 < kanzure> *so, no, it's not pythonic yet
13:53 < fenn> makes me wonder if they arent better off using cython
13:53 < fenn> swig is just such a pain in the ass
13:56 < kanzure> is my usual talk style sufficient for a python conference?
13:56 < kanzure> based off your "extensive" viewing experience at python conferences :P
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14:15 < kanzure> so, since i'm going up to singularity university
14:15 < kanzure> i was wondering if anyone has suggestions
14:16 < klafka> you should try and get them to ascribe to some sort of plurality
14:16 < kanzure> for things to pitch and propose that won't become victim to "falling behind the curve"
14:19 < kanzure> s/curve/curves/
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14:29 < kanzure> def update_parameters(self):
14:29 < kanzure>     super(self.__class__, self).update_parameters()
14:29 < kanzure> am i doing it wrong? that produces a max recursion depth reached error
14:30 < kanzure> i just want to call the super's update_parameters() as if i was making an instance of whatever the super is
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14:35 < kanzure> weird, i don't think it's really calling the super.
14:35 < kanzure> er, getting the parent class i mean
14:37 < pmetzger> Who is paying your way to S.U.? It is insanely expensive, right?
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14:38 < kanzure> pmetzger: yes, it's insanely expensive
14:38 < kanzure> andrew hessel is paying.
14:38 < kanzure> this is andrew: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niQ0kkgPxJk (also, this is a good intro to synthetic biology)
14:38 < pmetzger> paying personally?
14:39 < kanzure> dunno, should i ask? is that something that uh.. that i should ask?
14:39 < pmetzger> I'm guessing not...
14:41 < pmetzger> (that is, I'm guessing he isn't paying personally.)
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14:51 < klafka> kanzure, oh you're like going to attend the college
14:51 < klafka> not just going to visit
14:51 < klafka> or what have you
14:51  * kanzure nods
14:51 < klafka> is it a degree granting institute?
14:52 < kanzure> no
14:52 < kanzure> http://singularityu.org/
14:52 < kanzure> http://singularityu.org/people/faculty-advisors/
14:53 < klafka> are you doing the graduate studies program?
14:53 < kanzure> i think so, yes
14:53 < kanzure> i'm definitely not doing the executive thing :P
14:53 < pmetzger> kiind of weird calling it a "university" when it is really a conference...
14:54 < pmetzger> or something like a conference really.
14:54 < klafka> mm
14:54 < kanzure> nobody would pay $25k to go to it
14:54 < kanzure> pmetzger: it's basically peter diamandis rackeetering again
14:54 < kanzure> he also did 'space university'
14:56 < lepton> The university monkier does seem to be a poor descriptor
14:56 < klafka> kanzure, what track are you gonan do?
14:56 < lepton> and the pricing does seem rather ludicris
14:56 < kanzure> klafka: i think you're allowed to do everything
14:56 < klafka> oh
14:56 < klafka> i've never heard of these guys in the biotech/bioinfo 
14:57 < kanzure> yeah they have a pretty weak biotech program
14:57 < klafka> lol "future studies and forecasting"
14:57 < kanzure> i know andrew, ray, aubrey
14:57 < klafka> with KURZWEIL
14:57 < kanzure> daniel is doing 'cure together' .. surely there's more high class individuals to invite
14:57 < kanzure> and one guy in 'developmental biology' lawl
14:59 < bkero> AJollyLife: yo
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15:32 < kanzure> random mention of "bio-hacking" http://www.archadia.nl/?p=134
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15:41 < jrayhawk> words inappropriately prepended by "clue" are bad enough, making a domain and book out of one is just begging not to be taken seriously
15:41 < jrayhawk> re: cluetrain.com
15:44 < kanzure> that's some backlog, sir.
15:45 < jrayhawk> Yeah, sorry, forgot how scrolled up irssi was.
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15:48 < kanzure> genehacker: i'm presenting tomorrow on campus in the at&t building at 12:30 or something.
15:48 < kanzure> on pythonocc
15:48 < genehacker> about?
15:48 < kanzure> http://pythonocc.org/
15:48 < kanzure> python + CAD
15:49 < genehacker> ok
15:49 < genehacker> I going on a tour of the UT powerplant at that time
15:49 < lepton> pythonocc woo woo!
15:49 < lepton> *goes back to work
15:49 < genehacker> I have to model it
15:50 < jrayhawk> Still, it's creepy to take nascent youth culture from Usenet circa fifteen years ago and pretend that it's paradigmicly fresh today. I wonder if self-promoting hacks will be coopting 4chan memes fifteen years from now.
15:50 < jrayhawk> I should try writing a book applying Kibology to corporate management.
15:51 < kanzure> 4chan: the next corporate management sparadigm shift
15:51 < kanzure> "every corporation needs an internal 4chan board system"
15:51 < kanzure> sparadigm? wtf
15:51 < jrayhawk> the anonymous posting of ideas is important
15:52 < jrayhawk> especially goatse
15:52 < genehacker> hmmm.... let me see here
15:52 < kanzure> jrayhawk: every once in a while a corporation needs an enema to make sure everything is flowing correctly
15:52 < jrayhawk> haha
15:52 < genehacker> where's my corporate management bullshitting framework
15:53 < kanzure> genehacker: sorry, you're already living it
15:53 < kanzure> (utexas.edu)
15:53 < jrayhawk> sometimes the ass-end of the org chart needs to just let loose on the face of management
15:54 < kanzure> i forsee thousands of poorly photoshopped images of corporate executives getting bum raped
15:54 < genehacker> hardly
15:57 < jrayhawk> sounds like somebody needs to put on his clueshoes and go out to his cluecar and drive out the the cluestore and buy a 12-pack of clue
15:57 < jrayhawk> yeah, that's right, i went there
15:59 < jrayhawk> re: sparadigm: i didn't think you were that poor, dude :(
16:01 < genehacker> 4chan corporate management system leverages anonymous content posting with memetic propagation to enhance workforce performance
16:02 < AJollyLife> bkero: whats up?
16:02 < bkero> I dunno
16:02 < bkero> Nook stuff
16:04 < genehacker> does the nook have free 3g internet?
16:04 < bkero> Yes
16:04 < genehacker> holy shit that's awesome
16:05 < genehacker> no download caps?
16:05 < AJollyLife> bkero: genehacker: no it does not :P
16:07 < bkero> AJollyLife: new android web browser app on the nook allows me to browse the web over it
16:08 < AJollyLife> bkero: thats over wifi, not 3g.
16:08 < bkero> AJollyLife: The original browser is over wifi, a stock android web browser can get data over 3g
16:08 < AJollyLife> yes, if you replace the sim card with your own sim card
16:09 < genehacker> so no free 3g then
16:09 < AJollyLife> otherwise the existing sim is fairly locked down to bn stuff
16:09 < bkero> I put my nook sim into a G1 and was able to poke around on the internet with it
16:09 < AJollyLife> i mean, you are free to hop over to #nookdevs and ask there
16:09 < bkero> Had to go through a B&N proxy, but it worked
16:11 < AJollyLife> wha? interesting.  hop over to #nookdevs and tell some other people? I had not tried it myself, but I was told it was quite locked down.  i mostly bothered with reversing the drm myself
16:11 < genehacker> so you figured out how to get free data over 3g?
16:11 < kanzure> fenn: did you know about this? http://toddhuffman.pbworks.com/
16:12 < kanzure> designing a path to organism emulation http://hplusclub.com/tucson/presentation20071116/
16:12 < kanzure> http://www.amazon.com/Enhancing-Me-Enhancement-Science-TechKnow/dp/0470724099
16:13 < bkero> I'm working on data over 3g
16:13 < kanzure> The Arrest of Biological Time as a Bridge to Engineered Negligble Senescence http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1019/1/559
16:13 < kanzure> Selective Attention Affect Human Brain Stem Frequency-Following Response http://www.neuroreport.com/pt/re/neuroreport/abstract.00001756-200304150-00015.htm
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16:49 < kanzure> guh?
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16:49 < kanzure> while googling around for some stuff for my pystep file
16:49 < kanzure> http://www.wikistep.org/index.php/Main_Page
16:50 < kanzure> stalk: Tom Thurman
16:50 < kanzure> stalk: Lothar Klein
16:51 < kanzure> stalk: Giedrius Liutkus
16:51 < kanzure> http://www.wikistep.org/index.php/User:Tom_Thurman
16:52 < kanzure> http://www.wikistep.org/index.php/User:Lothar_Klein
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16:56 < kanzure> weird. DIMENSIONAL_SIZE in AP214 is one of the few STEP entities with a constructor with a first parameter that is *not* the name (that's the second parameter, in this case)
16:56 < kanzure> http://www.wikistep.org/index.php/GD%26T:_Implementation_Guidelines_For_GD%26T_Representation
16:56 < kanzure> hm.. http://www.wikistep.org/im/index.php
16:57 < kanzure> probably useful: http://www.wikistep.org/index.php/A_single_Piece_Part
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17:01 < kanzure> http://www.steptools.com/support/stdev_docs/express/ap203/html/t_cc_de-06.html guh what a class name "cc_design_person_and_organization_assignment"
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17:14 < bkero> echo index|nc ponderosa.osuosl.org 70
17:14 < bkero> Hell yea, GOPHER!
17:19 < fenn> haha 'Yes, dear. But how will I "motherstalk" you if you're not on facebook?'
17:47 < Alystair> I read that wrong
17:47 < Alystair> I thought motherstalking was instead of adding your victim you add your victims mom
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18:04 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
18:14 < ybit> hi JayDugger
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18:56 < drazak> kanzure: did you take any math notes in mathematica?
19:04 < kanzure> no, never
19:04 < kanzure> i tried latex once, but it failed
19:04 < kanzure> so i just did a simple html-based markup with <sup> and <sub> and such.
19:05 < cluckj> so did my mom
19:05  * cluckj rimshot
19:05 < kanzure> http://instantrimshot.com/
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19:26 < fenn> woah, here's a question for the diybio people: why do my brussel sprouts taste like horseradish after sitting in the fridge overnight?
19:30 < cluckj> are you eating them cold?
19:35 < fenn> yeah
19:39 < cluckj> sometimes refrigerating veggies changes how they taste
19:39 < cluckj> try letting them come to room temperature
19:40 < drazak> kanzure: I'm going to try it for a few days
19:40 < drazak> kanzure: if it doesn't work well I'll give up
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20:28 < kanzure>       ...    Step File Reading : /home/kanzure/code/pystep/sphere_attempt.step
20:28 < kanzure>     ****    StepFile Error : At line 11, parse error    ****
20:28 < kanzure>       ...    STEP File   Read    ... 
20:28 < kanzure>    39 records (entities,sub-lists,scopes), 82 parameters
20:28 < kanzure> Report : 27 unknown entities
20:28 < kanzure> hm..
20:29 < kanzure> anything look fundamentally wrong with the file? http://designfiles.org/~bryan/sphere_attempt.step
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20:40 < kanzure> updated graph: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/2009-07-01_to_2010-06-29.png
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20:48 < fenn> LengthMeasure isn't capitalized
20:51 < fenn> are you using any validation tools?
20:52 < kanzure> no. just loading it up into opencascade
20:53 < kanzure> i get a parse error on each line that begins with #
20:53 < kanzure> oh
20:53 < kanzure> semicolons are required
20:53 < kanzure> dur
20:54 < kanzure> well that didn't fix it.
20:55 < kanzure> s/"/'/g fixed a lot of the errors
20:56 < kanzure> and replacing 'e' with 'E' on line 28 fixed up another error
20:56 < kanzure> now i don't get any parse errors but i only see:
20:56 < kanzure> Report : 16 unknown entities
20:57 < kanzure> i think line #20 needs some work
21:00 < kanzure> hm.. that didn't do it
21:00 < kanzure> if anyone is interested
21:00 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/step.py
21:01 < kanzure> i run this, fix the newline errors surrounding the numbered lines, throw it into a .step file
21:01 < kanzure> then i open up heekscad and load in the .step file, and see the generated errors in the console (the opencascade output)
21:01 < kanzure> then i tweak the .step file until it seems like it's working
21:01 < kanzure> the file that step.py generates should be a simple sphere in heekscad
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22:03 < kanzure> aww shucks
22:03 < kanzure> http://www.pythonocc.org/resources/presentations_events/scipy-2010-python-for-scientific-computing-conference/
22:03 < kanzure> "Presentation will be made by Bryan Bishop, one of the advanced and most experienced pythonOCC users."
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22:14 < fenn> who knew
22:15  * ybit wiggles
22:15 < kanzure> "hurrah we can get it to not crash immediately!" --> most experienced user
22:15 < ybit> :)
22:16 < ybit> data logging in the mtm machine... hrm..
22:16 < fenn> fwiw, the general rule of thumb is, "if you're using metaclasses, you're doing it wrong"
22:16 < kanzure> fenn: any ideas for a visual representation of b-rep? for csg there's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Csg_tree.png
22:18 < kanzure> i guess i can just list out elements of a b-rep data structure (shell, loop, surfaces, faces, edges, vertices)
22:19 < fenn> maybe something from http://opencascade.blogspot.com/2009/02/topology-and-geometry-in-open-cascade_12.html or http://opencascade.blogspot.com/2009/02/topology-and-geometry-in-open-cascade_27.html
22:19 < fenn> for example you'd explain why a sphere has an edge, if you know :)
22:19 < fenn> but i think the cylinder pic shows how it's two circles and a warped rectangle
22:20 < fenn> er, cylinder pic: http://opencascade.blogspot.com/2009/02/continued.html
22:20 < kanzure> hm i don't know why the sphere has an edge, actually. is it the seam of the surface wrapping back on itself?
22:20 < fenn> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZnQO9nI8DrY/SZ8Pqv6R6uI/AAAAAAAAAHs/PReM6FM2Fog/s1600-h/face-normals.PNG
22:20 < fenn> maybe show just the yellow lines
22:21 < fenn> yeah it's the edges of the surface that's wrapped around spherical space
22:22 < kanzure> how is the rectangle 'warped' in the case of the cylinder?
22:22 < kanzure> you mean warped around the base circle's geometry?
22:23 < fenn> maybe better illustration http://www.ann.jussieu.fr/~perronnet/mit/shapes.gif
22:23 < fenn> in the cylinder, it's a surface transformed into a spherical manifold...
22:23  * kanzure is listening to http://listen.grooveshark.com/#/search/songs/?query=dj%20kewlaid%20berry%20blue%20vocal%20trance%20mix%20004
22:24 < fenn> if you use a diagonal line it turns into a helix
22:24 < kanzure> i am now addicted to grooveshark.
22:24  * fenn listens
22:24 < kanzure> how is that a 'better' illustration :P
22:24 < fenn> more 'stuff'
22:25 < kanzure> these are python programmers, not perl monks
22:25 < kanzure> they can only tolerate so much
22:25 < fenn> and it shows vertex, edge, shell, solid
22:27 < ybit> fenn: nice diybio email :P
22:27 < fenn> or you could do something like http://www.kxcad.net/autodesk/Autodesk_VIZ_Help/graphics/il_nurbs_sweep2.jpg
22:34 < kanzure> man, this would be much easier to show with a demo
22:37 < fenn> more nurbs http://www.nakl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~masuda/top_images/cmp.jpg
22:41 < fenn> http://www.cadcamcomponents.com/images/gw3df_examples/Multi-Blend-Surface.jpg
22:43 < fenn> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/specifications/OLD/ISO-IEC-19775-X3DAbstractSpecification/Images/NurbsTrimmedSurface.png
22:45 < fenn> the last two together explain the concept nicely
22:48 < fenn> this is kinda cool for a flash toy http://www.neuroproductions.be/uploads/blog/examples/nurbs1/NurbsTest.swf
22:48 < kanzure> guess i'm back
22:48 < kanzure> kxcad.net is the retarded brother of xkcd.com
22:50 < kanzure> also, /sleep
23:09 < drazak> kanzure: do you think it would be useful to post calc notes somewhere on the internet
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