--- Day changed Thu Jul 01 2010
00:03 < Alystair> it was covered in the paper, basically the new strain beats the pants off the old one
00:03 < fenn> well, i havent read the paper
00:03 < Alystair> it was made specifically to make the mouth inhospitable to other types :)
00:03 < fenn> *cough* link *cough*
00:03 < Alystair> hmm
00:03 < Alystair> I rather blow this right open
00:03 < fenn> Jeffrey D. Hillman of the University of Florida College of Dentistry in Gainesville?
00:03 < Alystair> yep
00:03 < Alystair> got the paper up
00:03 < Alystair> sec
00:03 < Alystair> http://lorinhalpert.com/others/AvlHillman2002_dental_carries_strep.pdf
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00:03 < fenn> why the hell am i using firefox
00:03 < Alystair> exactly
00:03 < Alystair> use Chrome
00:03 < fenn> chrome is annoying too
00:03 < fenn> it used to be that konqueror was fast, i dont know what happened
00:03 < kanzure> uzbl? :/
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00:05 < Alystair> http://www.probiora3.com/ <- notice S. Mutans is missing from that list
00:05 < kanzure> wow what a fucking clusterfuck http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/treder20090807/
00:05 < kanzure> who writes this shit?
00:05 < fenn> "After entering a special mode (via keyboard shortcut) each link in the viewport  may be selected through an assigned key (0 through 9) or alternatively by typing a string from the link text that is long enough to unambiguously identify it" hmm no thanks
00:05 < Alystair> kanzure: halp, how can I genetically modify mouth flora in my own home? :(
00:06 < fenn> a half hour ago i was searching for the link to carolina biological's demo transfection kit
00:06 < Alystair> transfection?
00:06 < Alystair> I don't know any of this fun lingo guys
00:06 < fenn> but firefox threw a hissy fit and i got distracted
00:07 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfection http://www.carolina.com/product/life+science/biotechnology+kits+%26+materials/transformation+and+advanced+techniques/green+gene+colony+transformation+kit+student+teach.do?keyword=gfp&sortby=bestMatches&page=1
00:08 < Noahj> Midori's pretty fast
00:08 < Noahj> Although it's really just a fancier gtkmozembed
00:09 < kanzure> Alystair: use a dictionary.
00:09 < Noahj> But with webkit instead of gecko
00:09 < Alystair> ok ok jfgi I get it
00:09 < kanzure> for basic definitions? sounds reasonable to me..
00:10 < Alystair> I was in agreement, didn't mean to sound mad about it :p
00:11 < fenn> i used to have a decent "dictionary" shell script
00:11 < fenn> then m-w.com decided to be annoying
00:11 < Noahj> Huh?
00:11 < Noahj> I just use dict
00:11 < kanzure> me too
00:11 < Alystair> oh wow his work is listed in Wikipedia now :|
00:12 < fenn> huh i thought that was for foreign language stuff like japanese
00:12 < Alystair> I take it all back
00:13 < fenn> it's in wikipedia so it's not bleeding edge enough for you?
00:14 < fenn> ok "dict" definitely does not do what I want
00:14 < Noahj> It outputs definitions when you give it a word 
00:14 < fenn> first of all, it's really fucking slow
00:14 < fenn> secondly it outputs pages and pages of crap when all iwanted was like a one sentence definition and maybe a synonym or two
00:14 < Noahj> I've got the server locally
00:14 < Noahj> It only grabs stuff from the dictionaries I have installed on my machine 
00:15 < Noahj> Which is just gcide and the thesaurus 
00:16 < fenn> i guess i'll just scrape http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Atransfection
00:17 < Noahj> http://shadow.eas.gatech.edu/~anewman/classes/Intro_Unix/define.html here's one
00:18 < fenn> thanks
00:18 < Noahj> It wants lynx though
00:19 < Noahj> probably not hard to use curl or something instead
00:21 < fenn> i'll feed the kitty what it wants
00:23 < Noahj> Also, on fast browsers again 
00:23 < Noahj> Midori's nice if you want old-konqueror speed and new webkit 
00:24 < Noahj> But Bryan's opera is pretty tricked out 
00:24 < Noahj> It's my fave for tab and session management 
00:25 < fenn> i want dillo speed and css, fuck the rest
00:26 < fenn> oh, i guess javascript would be nice too
00:26 < Noahj> Have you tried links2-graphic?
00:27 < fenn> yes
00:27 < Noahj> I like it a bit more than dillo 
00:28 < Noahj> I haven't used dillo since 2.0 though 
00:28 < Noahj> It had better ssl support 
00:28 < Noahj> That's about it, though 
00:28 < fenn> i didnt really give links2 a chance since it seemed more like a dancing bear than a real browser
00:29 < fenn> "Dillo-2.0 received a 115 EUR donation from  distrowatch!"
00:29 < fenn> my god where are all the speed hungry billionaire internet surfers
00:29 < Noahj> Oh, and links2 is supposed to have javascript
00:30 < Noahj> They probably just go buy a faster net connection and more computing
00:31 < fenn> while i'm making outrageously mundane demands, where's my zooming user interface?
00:31 < fenn> i need it to control my jetpack
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00:32 < Noahj> Oops
00:33 < Noahj> I hit ctrl+alt+ + 
00:33 < Noahj> To zoom
00:33 < Noahj> Because I remembered that X does that and wanted to see how smooth it was 
00:33 < Noahj> And crashed my X server 
00:33 < fenn> that's not what it means
00:33 < Noahj> It changes the resolution, I know
00:34 < fenn> i mean that's not what zui means
00:34 < Noahj> Oh
00:34 < Noahj> Oh!
00:35 < Noahj> This is a distinct thing from being able to zoom in anywhere with the scroll wheel the way some apps will let you
00:35 < Noahj> Where the concept is that everything's all in one screen and you zoom in to particular things 
00:35 < Noahj> Cool.
00:35 < fenn> right
00:35 < fenn> there's no such thing as an "application" only different data modifiers
00:36 < Noahj> Panning seems like it could get kind of boring, though 
00:36 < Noahj> I'd like some way to hop specifically to something at a really high zoom level 
00:36 < fenn> of course
00:36 < Noahj> Which would probably end up being keyboard shortcuts again, or search
00:37 < fenn> i've never actually used one so i dont know what idioms they've come up with for search
00:39 < Noahj> KDE 4.1 seems to have a ZUI
00:40 < fenn> no it just makes things bigger and smaller
00:47 < Noahj> The ZUI for youtube looks like a cool way to crash my computer
00:48 < Noahj> Wow, it actually does a nice job of multiple videos 
00:50 < fenn> yeah that kind of thing is just a simple GL texture map
00:50 < fenn> it gets harder when you want to dive into a 4000 page reference manual
00:53 < Noahj> I like search as a user interface, conceptually
00:53 < Noahj> All this zooming and panning is kind of tiresome
00:54 < Noahj> The easiest way to get what I want from a reference manual is going to be to search for relevant keywords or synonyms of keywords, I think, more than zooming 
00:55 < Noahj> I'm installing KDE 4.4 to try it 
00:55 < Noahj> Maybe it's cool and useful, I haven't used KDE since 3.5 
00:55 < Noahj> Also, going to sleep 
00:55 < Noahj> Goodnight, fenn 
00:55 < Noahj> or whatever time it is
01:03 < fenn> engelbart had the right diea
01:03 < fenn> basically, infinitely expandable table of contents
01:04 < fenn> of course you get stuck in the multiple possible categorizations trap, but whatever, at least it gets people thinking about it
01:07 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/define
01:08 < fenn> would be nice to have a -1 and -r options like sort and tail
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01:22 < fenn> midori is not particularly fast, based on my rigorous seat of the pants testing regime
01:23 < fenn> and it has this annoying framebuffer bug when you scroll
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01:34 < fenn> pool playing robot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMx1xW2E4Gg
01:55 < fenn> bah. i'm pretty sure ubuntu just deletes all your firefox bookmarks every time it 'upgrades'
01:56 < fenn> well at least i backed all that shit up 
02:00 < fenn> heh "Streptococcus uberis"
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03:43 < jrayhawk> Re: fast browsers: try out hv3 sometime.
03:44 < jrayhawk> Re: features: Kazehakase is kindof interesting on the rare occasions that it works. It has embedded Ruby scripting and interchangable rendering engines.
03:44 < jrayhawk> But yeah, Opera is pretty much always going to be king of the hill in terms of features.
03:45 < jrayhawk> uzbl and vimperator are good if you have a window manager that isn't awful at managing windows.
04:13 < bdesk> knuth is trollin http://omploader.org/vNHN0dw
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08:24 < kanzure> http://func.med.harvard.edu/ "A website for the browsing of quantitative gene function predictions, gene function linkage predictions, and the evidence behind the predictions."
08:26 < uniqanomaly__> http://func.med.harvard.edu/human/genes/list_functional_scores/161509 yay
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10:13 < kanzure> http://www.adaptcongress.com/ large personalized-medicine conference
10:14 < kanzure> virginia? wtf
10:15 < kanzure> $2k? wtf
10:21 < uniqanomaly__> everything costs $ -> everyone wants $ -> everything costs $ ...
10:35 < kanzure> guh? http://antiagingtech.info/ "Here you will find all sorts of anti aging information, including topics like New Technology Relevant to Anti-Aging and DIY (do it yourself) Anti Aging Tech Project"
10:35 < kanzure> looks like spam to me
10:36 < kanzure> http://antiagingtech.info/Anti-Aging/Anti-Aging-Tech-DIY-Project-Ideas.html
10:36 < kanzure> "hi tech" ugh
10:36 < kanzure> "medium tech project ideas: Write software for biology, chemistry, bioinformatics, artificial intelligence."
10:39 < kanzure> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/13/business/13sing.html?_r=1&pagewanted=5  "... a former research manager at Amgen drops this quote: "I know in 10 years it will be a junior-high project to build a bacteria.""
10:46 < uniqanomaly__> i doubt about it, last time i checked high school was about much totally basic crap
10:47 < uniqanomaly__> doubt it * :f
10:49 < kanzure> president's council on bioethics meeting to discuss synthetic biology http://bioethics.gov/meetings/070810/
10:52 < uniqanomaly__> "responsible manner", question is: will they outlaw it ;f
10:55 < uniqanomaly__> kanzure, don't you have impression sometimes that 'ethics' is kinda nonsense religion and is vastly slowing down progress?
10:55 < kanzure> uniqanomaly__: only sometimes ;)
10:56 < kanzure> most people do not make "ethics" a practice of sensemaking
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10:56 < uniqanomaly__> just like most of religious people ;)
10:56 < kanzure> uniqanomaly__: the reason i mentioned it was because it's something going straight into the ear of the president
10:57 < uniqanomaly__> ok
10:57 < uniqanomaly__> just wondering ;)
11:00 < kanzure> http://www.personalizedmedicinecoalition.org/ looks like a "write to your congressman" thing? 
11:00 < kanzure> various meetups http://www.personalizedmedicinecoalition.org/programs/overview.php
11:04 < uniqanomaly__> heh, i've read some time ago that they want to outlaw direct genetic testing, that you should be permitted to do genetic testing via physician :F
11:05 < uniqanomaly__> whatever, we'll find out soon
11:09 < kanzure> meetlog.txt needs a way to better identify groups of people
11:09 < kanzure> instead of adding individuals to the tag list
11:09 < kanzure> i guess i can add a 'group identifier' and just make up a tag name that i hope is unique and otherwise irrelevant
11:12 < uniqanomaly__> kanzure, btw are chan logs available somewhere? :P
11:16 < bkero> kanzure: ping
11:26 < uniqanomaly__> he'll be back
11:26 < uniqanomaly__> ;)
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11:50 < ybit> uniqanomaly__: http://gnusha.org/irclogs.txt
11:52 < uniqanomaly__> ybit: thanks
11:53 < ybit> np uniqanomaly__
12:00 < kanzure> just had a good meeting with a law firm
12:00 < kanzure> about open source hardware
12:00 < kanzure> it was actually a fun conversation.. they told me i was 'a sharp kid'
12:01 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/2010-07-01_open-source-hardware_and_patent-law.html
12:01 < kanzure> ^there's the transcript
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12:05 < kanzure> it sucks that i can't seem to accurately type what i'm saying when i'm talking (because my comments are probably valuable to see what they are responding to)
12:26 < uniqanomaly__> somehow modified 18th century patent/copyright law in 21st century is ridiculous
12:26 < uniqanomaly__> and FDA & drugs probation process
12:27 < uniqanomaly__> imagine nanobots created by AI lets say within next 20 years in a matter of hours and few years of acceptance process
12:27 < uniqanomaly__> as a medical devices
12:27 < uniqanomaly__> so much is just pathetic
12:28 < uniqanomaly__> what i'm i talking about ;P
12:28 < uniqanomaly__> wtf
12:28 < uniqanomaly__> am I*
12:28 < uniqanomaly__> :F
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12:35 < kanzure> bkero: pong
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12:45 < bkero> kanzure: was wondering if you knew a guy
12:46 < bkero> Do you know Arthur Breitman?
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12:54 < kanzure> bkero: heh
12:54 < kanzure> pmetzger: hey
12:54 < kanzure> bkero just asked a good question
12:54 < kanzure> 14:45 < bkero> kanzure: was wondering if you knew a guy
12:54 < kanzure> 14:46 < bkero> Do you know Arthur Breitman?
12:55 < kanzure> bkero: pmetzger knows arthur better than i do.
12:55 < pmetzger> hey, kanzure.
12:55 < bkero> Hah
12:55 < kanzure> bkero: why? what's up?
12:55 < pmetzger> I know Arthur.
12:55 < bkero> Was adding a coworker at Mozilla on LinkedIn, and I saw she was already 3rd-connected to me
12:55 < bkero> Through kanzure, then Arthur
12:56 < bkero> (she = romanian girl)
12:56 < kanzure> damn romanians
12:56 < kanzure> er, i mean, cute
12:56 < bkero> indeed
12:56 < egeste> the only thing i know about romania is "numa numa:
12:56 < egeste> "
13:05 < bkero> lol
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15:21 < kanzure> "the Orphan Drug Act, which basically says that there's a lower standard of evidence for drugs that treat rare diseases."
15:21 < kanzure> hi Lentur 
15:22 < Lentur> hi
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15:27 < kanzure> "I believe the story of Lipitor involved Pfizer not being interested, followed by the creation of a startup around it's further development with the company eventually being bought by Pfizer. It then became the top-selling branded pharmaceutical in the world [1]. I guess the world just needs more dreamers like these people."
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16:05 < jrayhawk> Have you talked to folks at the FSF about the open patent pool concept?
16:06 < kanzure> i don't think i know anyone there who would listen to me.
16:06 < ybit> i'm not so sure anyone @ fsf cares
16:06 < jrayhawk> I know you tried to talk to someone from the SFLC on one occasion.
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16:06 < pmetzger> I was talking to someone at SFLC last night. :)
16:07 < pmetzger> We had dinner.
16:07 < pmetzger> I mentioned hardware licenses to him.
16:07 < jrayhawk> Eben Moglen seems to be a reasonably clever mind.
16:07 < jrayhawk> Oh, right, he heads the SFLC, durrr
16:08 < kanzure> pmetzger: did you see the link i dropped earlier today from my chat with some lawyers?
16:08 < pmetzger> nope.
16:08 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/2010-07-01_open-source-hardware_and_patent-law.html
16:09 < kanzure> unfortunately i can't seem to simultaneously (1) think of something clever to say in response to a live conversation, (2) say it, and (3) type it down word-for-word
16:09 < kanzure> as a result, my comments and long-paragraph-diatribes are not included in that document
16:10 < jrayhawk> I assume you mentioned that IBM lawyer's clever bastardry involving allowing members of the pool to use other member's patents defensively.
16:11 < kanzure> oh fooey, i forgot to add the 'defensively' qualifier..
16:11 < jrayhawk> well, "defensively" is a non-sequiter anyway...
16:11 < kanzure> yeah i mentioned it.. but i forgot to frame it as a tool for defense in patent litigation
16:11 < kanzure> jrayhawk: imho if anyone ends up in a patent litigation trial from any of this, i have failed.
16:12 < jrayhawk> Well, the concern would be submarine patent litigation from outside members.
16:12 < kanzure> submarine?
16:12 < pmetzger> I thought they'd somehow outlawed submarine patents
16:12 < pmetzger> by requiring that the term be 20 years from date of filing rather than 17 from issuance.
16:13 < pmetzger> and by forcing publication of applications etc.
16:13 < jrayhawk> err, outside agencies
16:13 < kanzure> ah
16:13 < kanzure> yes, that's one possible concern
16:13 < pmetzger> kanzure: submarine patents were an old tactic where you delayed issuance deliberately for years or decades.
16:14 < kanzure> but you can't make a magical "i won't get sued evar" shield (people can start up lawsuits all the time for any reason)
16:14 < jrayhawk> It's trivial, especially with software patents being the way they are, that a given piece of hardware and programming that a Gnusha member distributes violates a patent that they couldn't possibly see coming, and, in fact, it's likely impossible to avoid violating some patent somewhere with any significant circuit logic.
16:14 < pmetzger> so suddenly, after 10 years of using a technology, you discover a patent is issued right then but is fine because it was applied for 15 years before...
16:15 < jrayhawk> So lawsuits are an inevitability.
16:15 < QuantumG> "submarine patent" these days just refers to someone who doesn't bother suing anyone until the patent is being violated by lots of people with deep pockets.
16:15 < jrayhawk> The idea is to create incentives for people who bring about lawsuits to settle quickly once they realize the defensive patent pool is actually quite robust.
16:15 < pmetzger> actual patent lawsuits are very rare.
16:15 < kanzure> one of my goals is to (preferably with the community's help) outline some different scenarios
16:15 < pmetzger> the ante in any real patent lawsuit is like $1M in fees.
16:15 < kanzure> and then 
16:15 < kanzure> put a list of expected results at the end of each scenario
16:15 < pmetzger> mostly people settle before litigation.
16:15 < kanzure> "feared consequences: some poor kid gets sued and has to pay up a few mil"
16:16 < kanzure> "situation: someone makes an open source hardware project and patents it"
16:16 < kanzure> "situation: someone makes an open source hardware project and does not patent it"
16:16 < kanzure> etc.
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16:18 < kanzure> well i successfully killed the conversation
16:19 < jrayhawk> You should probably decide if you want to create "patent pool for protecting gnusha projects" or "patent pool for destroying the patent system ostensibly for the purpose of protecting gnusha projects"
16:19 < kanzure> heh
16:19 < kanzure> well, this isn't really for gnusha specifically
16:19 < kanzure> or maybe it could be
16:19 < kanzure> but that wasn't my original purpose
16:19 < kanzure> i want some framework that i can setup and start using myself and that others can freely copy
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16:20 < kanzure> how does patent litigation work, anyway?
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16:20 < kanzure> if you have 1,000 patents available on "related" subjects to a trial, and the patent shark just has one, how does that play out :P
16:20 < jrayhawk> usually it doesn't get as far as litigation
16:21 < kanzure> what happens before that?
16:22 < kanzure> also, while i'm at it.. http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Research_Non-Assertion_Pledge
16:22 < jrayhawk> Usually it's Patent Holder: "We have a patent that applies to a product you're making. Cough up money or we get judge to stop you from distributing your product." Potential Licensee: "Let us discuss this with our lawyers." Lawyers: "You're boned." Potential Licensee: "How much would you like?"
16:22 < kanzure> http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Patent_Tools_Public_Discussion
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16:23 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i wonder if we could just channel this through some other nation
16:23 < jrayhawk> I guess it's more like Lawyers: "Either you're boned, or you get to pay a million dollars in legal fees for a court to confirm that you're boned."
16:23 < kanzure> like, if this was a gnusha-only thing, we could do the manufacturing or whatever we want in the u.s.
16:24 < kanzure> and then have a 'patent haven' in china (or something) for some legal purpose
16:24 < kanzure> http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Model_Patent_License
16:24 < kanzure> http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Patent_License_Design
16:27 < jrayhawk> I believe China has intellectual property rules, it's just that local companies can safely bribe their way out of obligations to follow those rules.
16:29 < kanzure> in the case of patent litigation and going to court, there's definitely some issues
16:29 < kanzure> however the overall framework hasn't even been built
16:29 < kanzure> so testing its viability in the court of law (even by imagination) seems kind of a waste at this point
16:31 < kanzure> i dunno if the "open source hardware license as a way to sublicense a patent and have the patent holder sign a non-assert" thing should be considered to be on the 'same level' as a non-patent holder who wants to develop and release open source hardware (without having to bother with acquiring a patent)
16:31 < kanzure> but it would be nice if those two situations are mutually compatible
16:31 < kanzure> and even better if they turn out to be the same legal tool
16:32 < kanzure> supposedly 'prior art' is the one tool to help tip the balance, but it seems to only be helpful if you're in the middle of a $1M court case
16:32 < jrayhawk> Well, really, this is just covering your ass as a distributor.
16:34 < kanzure> http://www.dol.gov/dol/aboutdol/copyright.htm "A patent provides its owner the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling his/her invention throughout the United States or importing the invention into the United States for a limited time. As part of the terms of granting the patent to the inventor, patents are published into the public domain. However, the fact that a patent's description is in the public doma
16:35 < jrayhawk> oh, huh
16:35 < jrayhawk> I guess you'd be safe from *most* patents as a distributor, at least.
16:37 < jrayhawk> I don't see the lawyers talking about what your potential liabilities as an information repository might be.
16:37 < kanzure> i wonder how much the ACLU pays for these cases? http://www.pubpat.org/Protecting.htm
16:37 < kanzure> true that
16:39 < jrayhawk> Like how Napster/Limewire/et al weren't actually violating copyrights, they were *conspiring* to violate copyrights and this was somehow just as bad.
16:42 < kanzure> i wonder where the patent law idea of "a patent provides its owner the right to exclude others from making, using ... his/her invention throughout the United States or importing the invention into the United States"
16:42 < kanzure> specifically the making/using aspect.
16:43 < QuantumG> have you seen how Monsanto has gone after seed cleaners?
16:45 < kanzure> no, not specifically
16:46 < QuantumG> they've claiming contributory patent infringement because the cleaners go to no effort to ensure the farmers are not getting them to clean Monsanto seed.
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16:47 < QuantumG> cleaning seed is what you do so you can replant the next season and Monsanto have won cases saying that replanting without a license is patent violation.
16:48 < kanzure> wtf you have to deposit biological materials at the USPTO? http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/2400.htm
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17:02 < kanzure> "Inventions in outer space" http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxl_35_U_S_C_105.htm#usc35s105
17:03 < kanzure> "When used in this title unless the context otherwise indicates - (a) The term "invention" means invention or discovery."
17:03 < kanzure> this would be funny if it wasn't sad.
17:05 < QuantumG> hehe
17:05 < QuantumG> it's kinda like when I learnt that "or" for legal purposes can be read as "and"
17:06 < QuantumG> so be sure to define xor and use it in your legal document :)
17:10 < kanzure> "A product which is made by a patented process will, for purposes of this title, not be considered to be so made after - (1) it is materially changed by subsequent processes; or (2) it becomes a trivial and nonessential component of another product."
17:11 < QuantumG> interesting
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17:12 < kanzure> O_o http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxl_35_U_S_C_272.htm#usc35s272 "The use of any invention in any vessel, aircraft or vehicle of any country which affords similar privileges to vessels, aircraft, or vehicles of the United States, entering the United States temporarily or accidentally, shall not constitute infringement of any patent, if ... "
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17:54 < genehacker> that makes sense
17:55 < genehacker> oh wait
17:55 < genehacker> that's a great loophole
17:55 < uniqanomaly__> ;))
17:56 < AJollyLife> whats the definition of temporarily?
17:57 < uniqanomaly__> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/temporarily
17:57 < AJollyLife> thats not a *legal* def
17:58 < uniqanomaly__> true
17:58 < uniqanomaly__> ;P
17:59 < uniqanomaly__> http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0991090#m_en_gb0991090 ;>
18:00 < genehacker> so one could use a proprietary factory process on a boat, then temporarily come back to shore to deliver the finished goods and pick up raw materials so long as the boat is from another country?
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18:13 < kanzure> genehacker: no, because there are other sections of the legal code that expressly forbid "imported items" from being immune
18:22 < kanzure> "In the U.S., a patent is a right to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, exporting components to be assembled into an infringing device outside the U.S.,
18:22 < kanzure> importing the product of a patented process practiced outside the U.S., inducing others to infringe, offering a product specially adapted for practice of the patent, and a few other very carefully defined categories."
18:22 < kanzure> "inducing others to infringe"
18:22 < kanzure> "Thus, merely thinking about an invention, or drawing a diagram, is not an infringement."
18:22 < kanzure> (although wikipedia is not a good source for legal interpretation)
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18:28 < kanzure> "In Grant v. Raymond it was ruled that an insufficient description of a patent was grounds for defense in cases of patent infringement."
18:28 < kanzure> "your description is less detailed than mine *solidworks file*"
18:29 < kanzure> citation: 31 US 218
18:30 < kanzure> http://supreme.justia.com/us/31/218/case.html
18:42 < fenn> i wonder if this is for real (automatic cartoonization of photos) http://mywebface.mywebsearch.com/download/index.jhtml
18:45 < kanzure> it's spammed all over the web
18:46 < kanzure> hm.. gmail was done for about 6 hours today, and just came back up for me
18:46 < kanzure> but i seem to only have four new unread emails
18:47 < kanzure> that's disappointing.. wouldn't you think they have redundant smtp servers for receiving mail?
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19:56 < fenn> how do i know the name Jef Poskanzer?
19:57 < fenn> maybe nobody could send you mail because they all use gmail
19:57  * fenn wonders which scenario is more disappointing
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20:23 < kanzure> fenn: i didn't test whether or not i could send/receive mail through imap or pop3
20:42 < fenn> this looks familiar, did someone post this link before? complearn
20:42 < fenn> er, http://www.complearn.org
20:44 < fenn> where is gnusha.org hosted? is there an easier way to grep logs than downloading ~20MB each time to get the most recent logs?
20:49 < kanzure> yeah, you bug me to run a script to split them up :/
20:49 < fenn> popular article how complearn works, what they neglect to mention is that they're using midi files http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3602
20:50 < kanzure> fenn: check http://gnusha.org/logs/ for the individual days (just updated)
20:50 < fenn> can't you run a cron job?
20:50 < kanzure> probably, but cron and i have never got along
20:51 < pmetzger> ???
20:51 < pmetzger> what's hard about cron?
20:51 < pmetzger> put script in file. put line in crontab saying "run script every day at hour X"
20:52 < kanzure> and then it doesn't happen
20:55 < fenn> that's been my experience too :\
20:55 < fenn> maybe something's just broken on davinci
20:56 < kanzure> hmm
20:56 < kanzure> fwiw gnusha is hosted on jrayhawk
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21:32 < kanzure> linux brainfart.. what's the cron-like task manager for scheduling one-time programs?
21:34 < kanzure> 'at'
21:35 < pmetzger> at uses cron.
21:35 < pmetzger> the at spooler is just triggered by the cron daemon.
21:36 < pmetzger> it is easier just to use cron directly.
21:36 < kanzure> really?
21:36 < kanzure> blah
21:36 < kanzure> i'm writing an auction website
21:36 < kanzure> and need something scheduled to happen for the end of a particular auction
21:36 < kanzure> (like calling a script to send out emails, transfer money from one account to another, do various other illegal things, etc.)
21:45 < pmetzger> if you're writing something that needs a high volume of timed events, cron isn't appropriate
21:45 < pmetzger> if you're doing, say, thousands of events an hour.
21:45 < pmetzger> cron is for things like rotating a log twice a dya.
21:45 < pmetzger> day
21:54 < kanzure> this will be arbitrarily high volume
22:07 < pmetzger> then you probably need to write a scheduler yourself (which isn't hard -- an easy extension to an event driven core anyway.)
22:07 < kanzure> hackernews delivers: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1480214
22:08 < pmetzger> that doesn't seem like great advice there.
22:08 < pmetzger> if I had to deal with many tens of events a minute, I'd just write the twenty line scheduler myself.
22:08 < pmetzger> it isn't hard.
22:08 < pmetzger> you probably need some massive master server anyway.
22:08 < pmetzger> more important question: why are you writing an auction site? I thought your life was DIY Transhumanism tech.
22:09 < kanzure> i do lots of weird side projects :)
22:09 < kanzure> andrew was talking about this 'carbon credit auction site' at hplus summit
22:09 < pmetzger> anyway, this is a pretty trivial thing to write.
22:09 < kanzure> it was supposed to be demoed there, but i crapped on the deadline (meh)
22:09 < pmetzger> you probably have some grotesque thing built around libevent anyway
22:09 < kanzure> yeah i agree
22:09 < kanzure> i just needed the right idea
22:10 < kanzure> nah, i'm not using libevent at the moment (also, have never heard of it)
22:10 < pmetzger> you add a priority heap sorted on next event
22:10 < pmetzger> you're not using libevent? shame.
22:11 < pmetzger> best way to write event driven code out there. written by niels provos after I described a proprietary thing to him at the atlanta linux showcase. he duplicated it in quite a hurry. :)
22:11 < pmetzger> there's even a set of python bindings given that it is your LoC.
22:12 < pmetzger> anyway, priority heap as queue, wakup one shot scheduled for next event, you're kind of done.
22:12 < kanzure> yep
22:12 < pmetzger> very little code.
22:12 < kanzure> agreed
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23:11 < fenn> "the future is a renewable resource"
23:19 < Utopiah> there is a coffe in Berkeley that had (have?) a 2m high VU-meter of their actual energy consumption and live webpage, ringing any bell?
23:22 < Utopiah> found it, http://dashboard.berkeley.edu/building/resource/kiosks/fsm_cafe/cafe_explanation.html
23:29 < fenn> how much energy does a 2 meter VU meter use?
23:30 < fenn> alos, all i see is some words
23:30 < Utopiah> they included the VU-meter cnsumption in it yes, they have pics and the online digital version but I don't know where
23:30 < fenn> wow what a crap example of django usage
23:35 < Utopiah> (it's to send to http://www.drumbeat.org/project/great-green-open-web )
23:42 < fenn> kanzure here is something to do with idle time on your laser cutter http://www.bloxes.com/assembly/