--- Day changed Mon Jul 05 2010 00:01 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:01 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:43 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-82-98.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:47 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-90-241.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:16 -!- superkuh [hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:46 < fenn> fwiw the donate button was from the petition hosting site, not the brain preservation people 01:56 -!- streety [~s0678364@cpat002.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:06 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypomnemata 02:10 < Bruns> fenn 02:10 < Bruns> i don't care about notebooks. 02:10 < fenn> these new instruments were immediately used for the constitution of a permanent relationship to oneself -- one must manage oneself as a governor manages the governed, as a head of an enterprise manages his enterprise 02:10 < fenn> Bruns: you don't belong here 02:10 < Bruns> fenn, it was a joke 02:11 < Bruns> take it easy, man 02:12 < Bruns> fenn, how old are you? 02:14 < Bruns> the "growing" an open source CAD system by challenging MMORPG players to enhance the physics simulation capabilities of their world 02:14 < Bruns> you look like such a nice guy, yet you are being a dick 02:16 < Bruns> fenn, does dojo21 mean anything to you? 02:19 < Bruns> fenn you seem stuck up 02:19 < Bruns> http://craphound.com/content/Cory_Doctorow_-_Content.html#24 02:19 < Bruns> i know you didn't write it but you said it is the reason you don't use facebook 02:21 < Bruns> why are you being all quiet :/ 02:21 < fenn> i got distracted 02:21 < Bruns> ok 02:21 < Bruns> continue being a dick, now 02:21 < fenn> ok 02:22 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:22 < Bruns> fenn does dojo21 mean anything? 02:23 < fenn> yes 02:23 < Bruns> LOL 02:23 < Bruns> no wai 02:23 < Bruns> is it really you? 02:23 < Bruns> haha 02:24 < Bruns> the drawfag? 02:24 < Bruns> haha 02:24 < fenn> drawfag? 02:24 < Bruns> drawfag 02:24 < Bruns> yes 02:24 < fenn> what does that even mean? 02:24 < Bruns> a person who draws 02:24 < Bruns> like a person who sings is a singfag 02:24 < Bruns> people who like science 02:24 < Bruns> scifag 02:25 < fenn> yeah, i draw, it doesn't mean i'm a fag 02:25 < Bruns> its not saying you are a fag 02:25 < Bruns> you are just a drawfag 02:25 < fenn> you have such a way with words 02:25 < fenn> you must be a wordfag 02:25 < Bruns> you like dick 02:25 < Bruns> therefore you are a fagfag 02:25 < Bruns> see? 02:25 < Bruns> it is fun 02:26 < Bruns> i thought you, dojo21, the drawfag would know this 02:26 < Bruns> unless you are trying to act like you just now know what a drawfag is 02:26 < Bruns> I doubt it, though 02:27 < jrayhawk> bruns you sound lonely would you like to talk about your hobbies and/or the weather? 02:27 < Bruns> yeah sure 02:27 < jrayhawk> oh good :) 02:28 < Bruns> my hobbies as of right now include sitting in bed 02:28 < Bruns> day 4 of no sleep 02:28 < jrayhawk> this sounds like a self-destructive hobby 02:28 < Bruns> sitting in bed because it is night, otherwise i would be doing something 02:28 < Bruns> later i will pick up a new hobby 02:28 < Bruns> i will call it eating 02:29 < Bruns> then digest the hobby and create a revolutionary one, pooping 02:29 < Bruns> it is a fullproof system that everyone will use 02:30 < Bruns> also i cant tell you the weather because it is dark out 02:30 < Bruns> but if i had to guess i would say mildly windy with a slight chance of rain 02:31 < Bruns> jrayhawk, what do you do? 02:31 < jrayhawk> i administrate systems and occasionally try to program and then regret trying to program 02:32 < Bruns> that is your hobby? 02:32 < jrayhawk> everything is a hobby to me 02:32 < Bruns> lol nuh uh 02:32 < Bruns> i bet breathing isn't a hobby 02:32 < Bruns> is it heff? 02:32 < jrayhawk> i also have an abusive relationship with a porsche 02:32 < Bruns> i beat my H3 up a lot 02:33 < jrayhawk> it keeps beating me and i keep coming back to repair it :( 02:33 < Bruns> good thing i have the jag on the side, though lol 02:33 < Bruns> the first time i got my H3 i did donuts in this girls yard 02:33 < jrayhawk> this sounds like another self-destructive hobby 02:33 < Bruns> how is that self destructive? 02:34 < Bruns> I was destroying her yard, not mine lol 02:34 < jrayhawk> tearing down relationships, putting self at legal risk 02:34 < Bruns> >no law where i live 02:34 < Bruns> >no relationship with the girl 02:34 < jrayhawk> do you live in the ocean 02:34 < Bruns> i live in the backwoods 02:34 < fenn> wow now i really want you to go away 02:35 < Bruns> boon county WV 02:35 < fenn> preferably off a cliff in your H3 02:35 < Bruns> fenn, shut up you look like a tool in your photo 02:35 < Bruns> lol 02:35 < jrayhawk> bruns just needs a friend :( 02:35 < Bruns> D: 02:35 < Bruns> jray b muh fran D: 02:36 < jrayhawk> someday i would like to learn to machine stuff but i am not really very motivated 02:36 < Bruns> also no jray, I am a cynicist 02:36 < jrayhawk> i should find a project that requires it 02:36 < Bruns> machine stuff? like a toaster? 02:37 < jrayhawk> i guess i could machine a toaster but i think i have enough toasters so it is not really much of a motivation 02:37 < Bruns> microwave 02:38 < jrayhawk> microwave waveguides would be fun 02:38 < Bruns> i don't know about waveguides, but those damn buttons are almost impossible to figure out 02:38 < jrayhawk> sounds like the basis for a creepy raytheon contract or something 02:38 < Bruns> 1-9?! THE OPTIONS ARE ENDLESS! 02:41 < jrayhawk> a raytheon anti-riot microwave gun would perhaps have a "baked potato" button 02:41 < Bruns> or you could just use it to cook ramen noodles 02:42 < jrayhawk> subversives would show up at your embassy and you could cook their ramen for them 02:42 < Bruns> or i could go and make prison food 02:43 < jrayhawk> but you should warn them to be careful because ramen bowls can get quite hot when coked! 02:43 < jrayhawk> s/coked/cooked 02:43 < Bruns> you take hot cheatos and put them in a ziplock bag with ramen noodles 02:43 < Bruns> and crush it up 02:43 < Bruns> then you poor some water and flatten it 02:43 < Bruns> use a book or something 02:43 < Bruns> and then you take it out and pour meet on it, like ground beef 02:43 < superkuh> I think you misunderstand the mechanism by which microwave anti-crowd devices work. It is not through a bulk heating mechanism. 02:44 < Bruns> and then poor moor water and the ramen noodle spices 02:44 < Bruns> stir it up 02:44 < Bruns> zap it in the microwave 02:44 < Bruns> WAIT 02:44 < Bruns> I forgot 02:44 < jrayhawk> i admit i may not have thought it through... 02:44 < Bruns> put cheese on it 02:44 < Bruns> THEN zap it 02:44 < Bruns> then put wave chips 02:45 < jrayhawk> this is starting to sound like every meal served at Chilis or Red Robin 02:46 < jrayhawk> i do not know if you have those in whatever crazy lawless land you live in 02:46 < Bruns> lol 02:46 < jrayhawk> they might be too afraid of H3's doing doughnuts on their lawns to open up shop there :( 02:46 < Bruns> its called WV 02:46 < Bruns> look up the movie 02:46 < Bruns> wild wonderful whites of west virginia 02:48 < Bruns> thats where i live lol 02:48 < jrayhawk> i wish i lived in a movie 02:49 < Bruns> yah its nice, 2 dimensions, you never get old 02:49 < Bruns> if your life ends they just start it over again 02:49 < Bruns> i hate it when people make me yell though....its not my fault they cant hear worth a damn 02:49 < jrayhawk> i hope my life doesn't end during the movie because then i would die over and over again 02:49 < jrayhawk> it would get rather tedious 02:50 < Bruns> yeah, the kid in my head who plays me as a videogame is fucking obnoxious 02:50 < Bruns> he is fat, never cleans his room, and is always yelling at his mom to get more chocolate milk 02:50 < jrayhawk> is he always getting cheeto dust in the controller 02:51 < Bruns> what? 02:51 < Bruns> are you retarded? 02:51 < Bruns> cheetos only exist in the game 02:51 < Bruns> they are illegal in his country 02:51 < jrayhawk> oh 02:51 < jrayhawk> how sad for him :( 02:51 < Bruns> yeah 02:51 < Bruns> the worst irony of it 02:51 < Bruns> his country 02:52 < Bruns> is CALLED CHEETO 02:52 < jrayhawk> oh no they will never understand the error of their ways 02:52 < Bruns> i know 02:53 < Bruns> DAMN YOU COMMUNIST CHINA 02:53 * Bruns shakes fist with pure rage 02:53 < Bruns> WHEN WILL YOU LEARN YOU ARE A CHEETO?! 02:53 < jrayhawk> perhaps you can break out of your constraints and enter his world like in the matrix, and save his world with cheetos like in the matrix 02:54 < Bruns> yo dawg 02:54 < Bruns> i put a reality in your reality so you can be real while your real 02:54 < Bruns> oh lawds 02:55 < Bruns> also 02:55 < Bruns> i cant leave this reality to go into his because i am made up of the same thing this reality is made of 02:56 < Bruns> to leave this reality i would have to be made up of gravitons :/ 02:56 < Bruns> and never trust a graviton 02:56 < Bruns> one minute they are there.....next they are gone 02:56 < Bruns> just like this fucking kid did the other day 02:56 < Bruns> i ask him to hold my wallet and turned around 02:56 < Bruns> and he VANISHED 02:57 < jrayhawk> vanishing is something ghosts do perhaps he was a ghost? 02:57 < Bruns> no.... 02:57 < Bruns> it was dark 02:57 < Bruns> and he was black 02:57 * Bruns ba da ts 02:58 < jrayhawk> maybe it was a ghost in front of something black so you looked at the ghost and saw black and assumed he was black 02:59 < jrayhawk> but really it was just an optical illusion!!! 02:59 < Bruns> omg, it was phone 02:59 < Bruns> i had better tell the others 02:59 < Bruns> who phone was 02:59 < jrayhawk> oh no not phone 02:59 < jrayhawk> who is phone 03:00 < Bruns> THATS MY POINT 03:00 < Bruns> WHO WAS PHONE?! 03:00 < Bruns> and you answered it 03:00 < jrayhawk> perhaps we can dedicate an institution to the study of phone 03:01 < jrayhawk> we will be hooked on phoneics 03:01 < Bruns> im already hooked on phoneics 03:01 < jrayhawk> i have missed the boat! 03:01 < Bruns> the episode of "intervention" on me and my struggle with phoneics will be on next week 03:02 < Bruns> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/then-who-was-phone 03:02 < jrayhawk> hmm it is late i should go to sleep but it was pleasant talking to you and i hope you can get to sleep someday! 03:02 < Bruns> READ MY LINK 03:02 < Bruns> NOW 03:02 < Bruns> before you leave 03:02 < Bruns> por favor 03:02 < Bruns> no me gusta mexicano 03:02 < Bruns> no hablo taco 03:02 < Bruns> si si ^_^ 03:03 < jrayhawk> okay i will do it just for you 03:03 < Bruns> :D 03:03 * fenn recommends melatonin, half a milligram 03:03 < Bruns> are you done? 03:04 < fenn> failing that, physical exercise 03:04 < jrayhawk> i suspect this is a meme infinite in scope and that i will never be done 03:04 * Bruns recommends fenn be nice to bruns because he is mean 03:04 < Bruns> jray 03:05 < Bruns> WALK INTO ROOM 03:05 < Bruns> PHONES IN BUTT 03:05 < Bruns> WAT DO 03:05 < jrayhawk> sometimes i wonder if 4chan is proof that meme survival is not dictated by fitness 03:06 < Bruns> i hate 4chan 03:06 < Bruns> 4chan is the gay 03:06 < Bruns> it was nice talking jrayhawk 03:06 < Bruns> go to sleep 03:06 < jrayhawk> okay thank you 03:07 < Bruns> you are welcomed 03:07 < Bruns> ...into my home 03:07 < jrayhawk> (i am going to stop responding but this is only because i will be asleep and it is not a judgement on your value as a conversational partner please do not take it personally!) 03:08 < Bruns> :D 03:08 < Bruns> thanks for splaning 03:19 < Bruns> bah 03:19 < Bruns> cant sleep 03:22 -!- bdesk [~argriffi@unaffiliated/bdesk] has left #hplusroadmap [] 03:28 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: streety 03:28 -!- Netsplit over, joins: streety 03:45 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279558942.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:45 < kanzure> bah 05:45 < kanzure> 'homo transcendis' 05:55 < Bruns> you are gay? 06:13 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-146-141.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:32 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-146-141.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:36 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@94-163-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:59 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:00 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@69.86.203.77] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:01 -!- Joeconyers [~Joe@ool-182fafef.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:03 -!- lepton [~lepton@174-29-12-208.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.189.39] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:32 -!- Joeconyers [~Joe@ool-182fafef.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:42 -!- Joeconyers [~Joe@ool-182fafef.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:43 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:50 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:31 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:32 -!- splicer [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:38 -!- streety [~s0678364@cpat002.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:08 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-146-75.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:14 < pmetzger> hello, genehacker... 09:15 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-146-75.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:15 < Utopiah> http://www.sciencevsaging.org/en by HASD by the Research Center of Advanced Technologies(?) Moscow 09:28 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-146-75.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:29 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@94-163-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:30 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:40 < kanzure> http://snarxiv.org/ i don't get it 09:40 < kanzure> http://davidsd.org/2010/03/the-snarxiv/ 09:41 < kanzure> ooh it's a paper generator 09:41 < kanzure> precious: http://snarxiv.org/vs-arxiv/ 09:44 < pmetzger> so far I'm getting them right every time. 09:46 < pmetzger> well, after a while 75% 09:46 < pmetzger> but it is usually possible to guess which is true 09:52 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-146-75.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:55 < pmetzger> 83% with a bit of time. 10:02 -!- shrdlu- [~a@unaffiliated/lizard-x] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:02 < kanzure> hi shrdlu- 10:02 < shrdlu-> hiya 10:02 < kanzure> we're all playing http://snarxiv.org/vs-arxiv/ at the moment :P 10:03 < shrdlu-> hehe 10:03 < shrdlu-> nice idea 10:03 < shrdlu-> unfortunately I know nothing of physics 10:05 -!- lepton [~john@m840736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:28 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:42 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:45 -!- niftyzero1 [~miron@dsl081-070-214.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:25 < niftyzero> may I spam y'all with this again: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/brainpreservation/ ? ;) 11:25 < AJollyLife> i donated to that i think 11:29 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@69.86.203.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:31 < niftyzero> oh. note that you don't have to donate (donations go to ipetitions, not to the original organization) 11:31 < AJollyLife> i donated to them directly at H+ 11:33 < niftyzero> I didn't know they had donations open... 11:33 < niftyzero> do you have a link handy? 11:35 < AJollyLife> hmm. theres this - http://www.brainpreservation.org/index.php?path=prize but i'm not sure thats actually what i donated to 11:35 < AJollyLife> nope, that is what i donated to 11:37 < niftyzero> I don't see a donation link there... 11:37 < AJollyLife> top left corner 11:38 < niftyzero> doh 11:38 < niftyzero> thanks 11:46 < shrdlu-> you want to preserve the whole brain? 11:51 < shrdlu-> isn't that, overkill? 11:51 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:53 < shrdlu-> like, what do you gain from preserving cerebellum? 12:02 < shrdlu-> and if you're aiming for completeness, why exclude the spine or PNS? 12:05 < niftyzero> what makes you think that the cerebellum doesn't have a large impact on your identity? 12:06 < shrdlu-> the fact that if you remove it, it doesn't alter the cognitive capacity of a human 12:06 < kanzure> niftyzero: the brain preservation prize is not about 'identity' 12:06 < shrdlu-> makes em walk a little funny, have a hard time coordinating, but it doesn't have an effect on other cogntive tasks 12:06 < niftyzero> it's an important milestone in that direction 12:07 < kanzure> niftyzero: leave your weird ideas about 'identity' at the door please 12:07 < shrdlu-> so why stop at the brain, kanzure? 12:07 < kanzure> what? 12:07 < kanzure> oh, for the prize? 12:07 < shrdlu-> yeah 12:08 < kanzure> my original suspicion was that the entire BPP thingy was just so that ken hayworth would have a reason to sell his brain slicin' machine 12:08 < kanzure> i later learned though that it's not his machine 12:08 < kanzure> so honestly i'm just as perplexed as you are :) 12:08 < niftyzero> shrdlu- - well, the feel of my limbs and movement in space is somewhat important to me, so why not preserve that? 12:08 < shrdlu-> because like I said, it's overkill. 12:09 < shrdlu-> cerebellum has more neurons than any other structure in the brain 12:09 < niftyzero> you want to exclude an arbitrary 10% of the brain from preservation? seems counterproductive... 12:09 < kanzure> arbitrary? 12:10 < niftyzero> well, there are all kinds of structures that we could exclude and replace with generic ones on uploading.... amygdala, etc. 12:10 < shrdlu-> I agree 12:10 < niftyzero> but it would change the "look and feel" of the results 12:10 < kanzure> niftyzero: you could "replace" anything you want.. but you have to understand what you're talking about 12:10 < kanzure> do you know what the cerebellum actually is? 12:10 < niftyzero> so just preserve the entire thing - it won't cost extra 12:11 < niftyzero> motor control 12:11 < shrdlu-> so why stop at the brain? 12:11 < niftyzero> well, spine would be nice 12:11 < shrdlu-> plenty of fixed action patterns encoded into the spine 12:12 < shrdlu-> you'd certainly lose a lot of 'feel' without those 12:12 < niftyzero> I agree, I would prefer the spine to be scanned too 12:12 < shrdlu-> kanzure, we can make guesses as to what the cerebellum is 12:13 < kanzure> shrdlu-: was talking to niftyzero 12:13 < kanzure> unless your intention was to say something else? 12:14 < shrdlu-> naw 12:17 < shrdlu-> oh, hm, the stuff I'm reading differentiates between fixed action patterns and spinal reflexes 12:17 < shrdlu-> oh well 12:24 < shrdlu-> can someone who knows neuroscience look at this for me? It doesn't look right to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_cortex#Classification 12:24 < shrdlu-> Based on the differences in lamination the cerebral cortex can be classified into two major groups: 12:24 < shrdlu-> Isocortex (homotypical cortex), the part of the cortex with six layers. 12:24 < shrdlu-> Allocortex (heterotypical cortex) the part of the cortex with less than six layers (varying in number). The allocortex includes the olfactory cortex and the hippocampus. 12:25 -!- uniqanomaly__ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-80-209.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:26 < shrdlu-> "the part of the cortex" <- that suggests that it's all one structure. As far as I'm aware, hippocampal cortex is a different structure? 12:26 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-90-241.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:28 < shrdlu-> That seems to be using 'cerebral cortex' to mean 'brain' 12:29 < shrdlu-> as opposed to neocortex 12:30 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:31 < shrdlu-> cerebral cortex is aka neocortex, right? 12:32 < shrdlu-> it's the cortex/bark to the entire cerebrum 12:32 < kanzure> shrdlu-: here's my understanding of neural anatomy: http://github.com/kanzure/brain/blob/master/human_brain.yaml 12:33 < shrdlu-> that's not understanding, that's a list :p 12:33 < kanzure> it's yaml 12:33 < kanzure> it's a python object that you can navigate, up and down 12:33 < kanzure> like querying for what different regions are called 12:33 < Utopiah> nice 12:34 < kanzure> neuro anatomy seems to go by a thousand and one names 12:34 < shrdlu-> it's not the names that are really important here, it's the failure to differentiate between different structures 12:34 < niftyzero> very nice 12:34 < kanzure> you say pons, i say rhomboencephalon metencephalon anterior structure of the pontine reticular formation. 12:34 < shrdlu-> which is a drastic fault in that section of the wikipedia article if I'm right 12:35 < Utopiah> shrdlu-: WP pages have a discussion page so check, discuss, correct there ideally 12:35 < Utopiah> because if you are right and it's not reflected, then it's a loss for WP 12:35 < shrdlu-> I'd rather have someone tell me I'm not talking crap first. I'm no academic 12:37 < Utopiah> sure, I also meant that if it's doubtful/controversial it might have been already discussed before so the Talk page and the History page have to be checked 12:40 < shrdlu-> "The cerebral cortex is a sheet of neural tissue that is outermost to the cerebrum of the mammalian brain" and "Based on the differences in lamination the cerebral cortex can be classified into two major groups: .... Allocortex (heterotypical cortex) The allocortex includes the olfactory cortex and the hippocampus." 12:40 < shrdlu-> those two statements are contradictory 12:41 < shrdlu-> since neither the hippocampus or the olfactory cortex are outermost to the cerebrum 12:45 < niftyzero> cortex scanning paper - http://www.frontiersin.org/conferences/individual_abstract_listing.php?conferid=770&pap=3275&ind_abs=1&q=194 12:46 < shrdlu-> yeah, they're talking about neocortex there 12:46 < shrdlu-> several brain structures have cortex 12:46 < niftyzero> there seems to be a large increase in activity on the path to uploading 12:47 < kanzure> increase compared to what? 12:48 < niftyzero> a few years ago 12:49 < niftyzero> but since I'm not in the field, it could be that I'm just looking more closely 12:49 < kanzure> :) 12:49 < kanzure> i think that's the case. 12:49 < kanzure> i.e., you probably didn't know about MURG, 3scan, the emulation roadmaps, etc., before. 12:50 < niftyzero> just found out about murg a week ago 12:50 < niftyzero> they will have a workshop in SF attached to the singularity summit - I plan to attend 12:51 < niftyzero> brb 12:51 < kanzure> they? 12:51 < kanzure> randal's thing? 12:51 < kanzure> i was pretty sure MURG disolved 13:00 < niftyzero> http://www.carboncopies.org/ 13:01 < niftyzero> maybe a continuation of MURG 13:01 < niftyzero> I dropped him a note, and it seems to be on 13:02 < niftyzero> I've been aware of Sandberg/Bostrom's WBE work for awhile 13:03 < niftyzero> also Markham's work looks very interesting 13:03 < Utopiah> they make a talk in few days on XLR8 AFAIR 13:04 < Utopiah> cf http://telexlr8.wordpress.com/2010/07/04/randal-a-koene-on-realistic-routes-to-substrate-independent-minds-teleplace-july-17-10am-pst/ 13:07 < niftyzero> cool 13:13 < kanzure> niftyzero: do you mean markram? 13:13 < kanzure> thanks for carboncopies.org 13:14 < niftyzero> oops, sorry, Markram 13:14 < shrdlu-> I haven't seen markram express an cohesive information processing ideas 13:14 < kanzure> *dissolved 13:14 < shrdlu-> any 13:14 < kanzure> shrdlu-: why would he? 13:15 < shrdlu-> Why would be express them, or why would he have them? 13:15 < kanzure> have them 13:15 < kanzure> :) 13:15 < kanzure> 'The Society of Neural Prosthetics and Whole Brain Emulation' 13:16 < shrdlu-> We does have them, they just don't seem very cohesive 13:16 < shrdlu-> he 13:17 < shrdlu-> he seems to be implying standard computational processing units, when I've seen him talk about it 13:17 < kanzure> are you talking about minicolumns? 13:18 < shrdlu-> I'm talking about the function of minicolumns 13:19 < shrdlu-> I've only seen him say a few lines on it, but his analogy for minicolums was a cpu processor, just lots and lots of them in parallel 13:19 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279558942.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:20 < shrdlu-> that to me is the same as saying 'I don't have an information processing model' 13:28 < shrdlu-> although I fully accept that was probably dumbed down for a casual audience and he would pwn me verbally if I attempted to challenge him on that ;) 13:29 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:29 < Bruns> wat 13:30 < shrdlu-> saaaay wat 13:31 < Bruns> ok 13:31 < Bruns> wat 13:51 < shrdlu-> he does release a shit load of papers though. You could probably pin down where he's heading, informationally speaking, by reading them 13:51 < shrdlu-> but they're too technical for me 13:52 < Bruns> shrdlu- who are you talking to? 13:53 < kanzure> shrdlu-: i have some markram papers, if you'd like. 13:53 < shrdlu-> jesus, bruns, jesus. 13:53 < shrdlu-> kanzure, I've read some of them. But it's way too dense for me as a non specialist 13:54 < kanzure> okay. if you want to read over them sometime with me, maybe i could make them less cryptic 13:55 < shrdlu-> yah, gimmie a decade or so to get to that level ;) 13:55 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279558942.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 14:09 < kanzure> http://www.allaboutopenhardware.com/ txtr, ben nanonote, and a few other things are blogged about. 14:09 < kanzure> 'Dangerous Prototypes · A new open source hardware project every month.' 14:09 < kanzure> ardupilot - an arduino-based autopilot project for UAVs :P 14:13 < Utopiah> ( http://www.opencollector.org/ "I'm old enough to have been a hippy, and let me tell you, the commune never worked" :P ) 14:20 -!- heath [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:20 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:21 < kanzure> http://www.cookthing.com/ "cook things using ingredients you already have" 14:22 < kanzure> http://www.recipepuppy.com/ "Recipe Puppy is an ingredient based recipe search engine. Enter your ingredients above or try an example search." 14:22 < kanzure> they have an api? hrm 14:25 < kanzure> eh just a search engine, nevermind 14:25 < kanzure> i was hoping for structured ingredient dependencies 14:36 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:39 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-80-209.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:39 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:41 -!- uniqanomaly__ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-80-209.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:01 -!- lepton [~john@m840736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:03 < fenn> huh. michael anissimov has a quote in "the singularity is near" 15:07 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09 < fenn> http://ca.rstenpresser.de/~cpresser/tmp/emc2.5pre_lenny/linux_cnc_sticker.jpg 15:13 < kanzure> fenn: "the singularity is near" was basically ray kurzweil reading over all of the mailing lists and assembling content :) 15:14 < kanzure> also, i've updated ~bryan/meetlog/ 15:14 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/positions.html 15:14 < kanzure> ^a list of "positions" that people i know hold 15:18 < QuantumG> heh, I thought it was going to be a list of memes they support 15:20 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-24-63-206-22.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:22 < kanzure> hi ENKI-][ 15:23 < kanzure> QuantumG: i could do that too :) 15:25 -!- heath [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:26 < kanzure> okay, more useless data uploaded 15:26 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/tag_counts/?C=S;O=D 15:26 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:27 < kanzure> this one shows who talks about certain tags the most frequently 15:27 < kanzure> for instance, on diybio: 15:27 < kanzure> 5: andrew hessel 15:27 < kanzure> 5: cathal garvey 15:27 < kanzure> 5: brian degger 15:27 < kanzure> 5: elizabeth buschmann 15:27 < kanzure> 6: dave rauchwerk 15:27 < kanzure> 6: joseph jackson 15:27 < kanzure> 10: nathan mccorkle 15:27 < kanzure> 13: Mackenzie Cowell 15:27 < Bruns> 14. Bruns Genus 15:27 < Bruns> :D 15:28 < kanzure> i'm afraid not 15:28 < kanzure> Bruns: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt is the data set 15:28 < Bruns> D: 15:28 < Bruns> can i get on thur? 15:28 < kanzure> you already are 15:28 < kanzure> i just haven't uploaded in a few days 15:29 < Bruns> upload it nao D: 15:29 < kanzure> and don't have a daily sync setup on it (meh) 15:30 < Utopiah> kanzure: do you get notifications on keywords? like when (X says termA termB termC) displays (linkA1 linkB2 linkZ4) ? 15:31 < kanzure> i don't understand your example 15:31 < Utopiah> max more: ["extropy-chat", "science fiction"] 15:32 < kanzure> that's the set of things that we were talking about 15:32 < Utopiah> would do a search on http://designfiles.org/~bryan/* for those keywords, return links, propose to share with max more 15:32 < kanzure> ah 15:32 < kanzure> no, i am not presently doing that 15:32 < kanzure> honestly it feels like i'm not capturing a lot of data here 15:33 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 15:33 < kanzure> i mean, is this really the extent of the list of people that i talk with about diybio? 15:33 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/tag_counts/diybio.html 15:33 < kanzure> /that's all/?? 15:35 < kanzure> i guess that's 210 people.. but still. 15:41 < fenn> time to start wearing audio recording devices 15:44 < ENKI-][> quick idea: extremely high order hmms using phonemes as tokens, listening to talk radio 15:45 < fenn> and? 15:45 < ENKI-][> skip the text step? 15:45 < ENKI-][> might be interesting. but i have a lot of free time 15:46 -!- danielfalck [~chatzilla@pool-71-111-61-3.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:47 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:47 < kanzure> hi danielfalck 15:48 < danielfalck> hi kanzure 15:48 < danielfalck> how are things 15:48 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:48 < kanzure> they go well 15:49 -!- asdtoob [~asdtoob@c-24-63-206-22.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:49 < kanzure> hi asdtoob 15:49 < asdtoob> think.. they are the resident linkin park.. i dont have the right areas.. 15:50 < kanzure> fenn: qualitatively, it feels like i'm talking to more people than the data is saying i am 15:50 < kanzure> i don't want to call it an impedance mismatch 15:51 < kanzure> maybe there's a red queen's race effect going on in here somewhere 15:51 < fenn> i would be surprised if it were the other way around.. it's easier to forget to enter some data point than to just make stuff up without realizing it 15:53 < kanzure> i find it hard to believe that i've only talked with, say, tito jankowski about diybio three times 15:53 < kanzure> but not only that, but to forget all the other times? 15:53 < kanzure> i mean, it should be much higher than three, even with some 25% forget rate or something 15:53 < fenn> yeah i'm sure we've talked about diybio more than 1 times :P 15:53 < ENKI-][> kanzure: if asdtoob gets annoying mute him. i don't have many high-coherence high-density chat sources 15:53 < fenn> is asdtoob a bot? 15:53 < asdtoob> thought you meant by that one is you.. .. : asdtoob is probably ENKI-][ as a bot 15:54 < asdtoob> baby.. 15:54 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:54 < fenn> for a second i thought it was bruns with a different name :) 15:54 < kanzure> fenn: not much of a difference between the two 15:54 < ENKI-][> there are more of asdtoob 15:54 < kanzure> ENKI-][: btw, i've always wondered if nsh is one of your HMMs 15:54 < fenn> aww 15:55 < ENKI-][> no. nsh is a human, apparently. he once kickbanned me from somewhere for having a bot 15:55 < ENKI-][> i forget where 15:55 < kanzure> probably swhack 15:55 < kanzure> btw, bots can kickban. 15:55 < asdtoob> Nekobwaah: YOU ARE YOU SO WEIRD.. I just realized something very deep.. 15:55 < kanzure> ENKI-][: yeah let's mute him for now. 15:55 < ENKI-][> ok 15:56 < fenn> are we training the bot on hplusroadmap logs now? 15:56 < kanzure> ENKI-][: you can also run him over the chat logs if you want 15:56 < kanzure> fenn: get off my brain waves 15:56 < kanzure> get yer own frequency 15:56 < fenn> ouch 15:56 < ENKI-][> i can't. or, not easily until the codebase is rewritten 15:56 < kanzure> hehe :) 15:56 < ENKI-][> i've got another bot who will actually happily munch on logs, though 15:56 < ENKI-][> and i have other uses for logs if you have them 15:56 < kanzure> ENKI-][: http://gnusha.org/irclogs.txt about 20 MB 15:57 < fenn> i think it would be neat to have various bots that are only trained on one nick 15:57 < ENKI-][> excellent... all is going according to the scenario 15:57 * ENKI-][ evil laugh 15:57 < ENKI-][> fenn: superkuh has been doing that for years 15:58 < ENKI-][> greps single nicks out of the logs, reformats them, quickly trains a megahal on them 15:59 < ENKI-][> i'd be interested in having a good-quality keyboard that will log all my keys and generate an hmm automatically, though 15:59 < ENKI-][> then maybe let the bot loose on my machine after a dead man's switch goes off or something 15:59 < fenn> btw speaking of meetlogs, this is superb http://theofficeof.feltron.com/ 15:59 < ENKI-][> live my life until my bills stop being paid 16:00 < AJollyLife> psh. automate bill payment 16:01 < QuantumG> Orson Scott Card's "Empire" is hilarious. I just read a chapter where they send Mechs into NYC 16:02 < fenn> ENKI-][: you could just go on vacation for a while and see how it performs 16:06 < AJollyLife> QuantumG: ill have to get it 16:08 < fenn> continuing here for sake of logging non-repeatingmyself etc 16:09 < fenn> "the internet effect" is a statistical bias whereby topics you are interested in seem more popular/important than they actually are 16:09 < ENKI-][> AJollyLife: i would also have to automate working for a living. this is slightly more difficult 16:09 < fenn> the reason it exists is because most observations are made actively (i.e. you have to search for that topic) rather than passively (a stranger on the street yells it at you) 16:09 < kanzure> fenn: i don't think we're on the same wavelength, this time 16:10 < kanzure> it's actually the inverse 16:10 < kanzure> the topics don't seem as important as they actually are 16:10 < ENKI-][> i guess i already use travesty generators for most of my blog posts, but adsense isn't pulling in the dollars 16:10 < kanzure> or, rather, the topics don't seem to have as much of a following as they actually do 16:10 < kanzure> first, it seems that there's a ridiculously large number of people out there in the world who are science grad students, phd students, and postdocs 16:10 < kanzure> second, the barriers to entry on sci/tech stuff is supposedly going down, or at least, some people want it to 16:10 < kanzure> so doesn't this mean a massive influx of talent on "their off time" to doing weird little side projects? 16:10 < kanzure> supposing that some people of that population pool are convinced that it's interesting or clever or worth their time 16:11 < QuantumG> according to Mike Moore, the US intellectual talent pool is being dried up by Wall Street. 16:11 < ENKI-][> the internet allows you to more easily find things about topics that are obscure and also makes it easier for you to ignore common topics. so, the apparent popularity of things shifts towards the average compared to the actual 16:11 < QuantumG> least sense making thing I think he's ever said :) 16:11 < ENKI-][> which of course influences the actual 16:11 < ENKI-][> this is a dynamic feedback system, and is probably why people are making lots of money on plush cthulus 16:12 < kanzure> how do you explain things like the 200,000+ iphone app developers that sprung up by 2008? 16:12 < fenn> QuantumG: makes sense to me.. every time i go to a machine learning meetup somebody is talking about trading strategies, which is a totally useless endeavor if you think about it 16:13 < ENKI-][> the popularity of anything considered to be fringe tends to increase while the popularity of anything considered to be popular decreases. apple's business plan is mostly to raise the price and attempt to make themselves seem fringe indefinitely 16:13 < kanzure> or how do you explain the ridiculously large number of debian package maintainers? that's a /hard/ technical "hobby" 16:13 < fenn> i live with an ex-cryonics researcher who now works as a programmer for a mutual fund 16:13 < ENKI-][> people will pay to be part of a tribe that they consider to be coherent and elite 16:14 < ENKI-][> or at least coherent and small, which amounts to the same thing 16:14 < AJollyLife> people like money? 16:14 < kanzure> bluh where did those stats on the number of PhDs awarded per year in the US go 16:14 < QuantumG> yeah, debian package maintenance is thankless too 16:15 < ENKI-][> people don't have a particularly good appreciation of money imo, AJollyLife. being an unemployed student, i've gotten quite aware of the fact that i have x amount of money and if i spend it it's gone. so, i don't buy things. most people buy things just to say that they bought them 16:15 < ENKI-][> or to be part of a club of people who buy similar things 16:16 < QuantumG> I was like that too.. and then I got married.. and now I'm broke without knowing why. Aint life grand? 16:16 < ENKI-][> this is wonderful for those who don't do this. i can still walk down the street and find perfectly good computer parts by the side of the road 16:16 < AJollyLife> money buys capability 16:16 < ENKI-][> it sure does. 16:16 < AJollyLife> right now, my money is primarily spent to allow me to go to lots and lots of conventions 16:17 < ENKI-][> i prefer not to waste it on things i can get for free 16:17 < AJollyLife> and meet fun/smart people :) 16:17 < ENKI-][> i guess i'm kind of lucky. i am a busride away from yale. for a buck twenty five i can meet smart fun people attending conventions 16:17 < AJollyLife> nice :D 16:18 < fenn> that's how i feel about the bay area 16:18 < fenn> except, ... not yale 16:18 < AJollyLife> i neeeed to move to the bay 16:18 < AJollyLife> i'll move in the next few years i think 16:19 < ENKI-][> on occasion i wish i could afford airplanes like normal people. i suppose i probably could if i had an income source. but, a one way trip to anywhere costs about three quarters of my life savings 16:19 < AJollyLife> heh, i still managed to go to a fair amount of cons as a broke grad student, but now i go to far more 16:19 < ENKI-][> okay, more like half. but still 16:20 < AJollyLife> me and my ex had a reputation as those crazy college students at all the hacker cons 16:20 < ENKI-][> it'd be nice to be a grad student, i think. grad students occasionally get paid a stipend, don't they? 16:20 < QuantumG> try flying from Australia for expensive 16:20 < AJollyLife> yeah, it paid for half my tuition+ a bit more 16:20 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20 < AJollyLife> QuantumG: that would get expensive fasst 16:21 < AJollyLife> this is why i mostly do us cons 16:21 < AJollyLife> but im going to montreal thursday for ReCon 16:21 < AJollyLife> and might do SecTor later this year 16:21 < AJollyLife> (security conferences) 16:22 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:24 < kanzure> biocurious on boingboing: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/07/05/help-fund-a-hackersp.html 16:27 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:28 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:32 < fenn> somebody had fun with the camera 16:35 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [] 16:35 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:49 < kanzure> heh jonathan cline arguing that diybio kits will probably not be open source (in 2008): http://blog.openwetware.org/community/2008/09/15/household-biohacking-coming-to-a-neighborhood-near-you/#comment-122 16:58 < kanzure> someone should start a hackerspace called 'make room' 16:59 < fenn> what is foundation-volunteers@googlegroups.com? 16:59 < fenn> kanzure: nice triple entendre 17:01 < fenn> ffs i'm going to have to make my own damn diybio kits just so there's actually something there 17:01 < asdtoob> Lol.. Are there good and evil, only free will is GaelicGrime.. 17:01 < fenn> and i dont even care about diybio, i just think it's disgusting 17:01 < fenn> ... that there arent any plans released, 2 years later 17:01 < kanzure> but lots of hype! 17:01 < kanzure> about 1,500 mailing list participants 17:01 < kanzure> and at least 40 articles 17:02 < kanzure> count 'em and weep: http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F 17:02 * fenn cries in his coffee ice cream 17:02 < fenn> my eyes always hurt after taking melatonin 17:07 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08 < fenn> oh poo. my "singularity is near" ebook is missing all the graphs 17:08 < kanzure> hint: they are all exponential curves 17:08 < asdtoob> they similar ages or even "water is bad".. 17:08 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:08 < kanzure> ENKI-][: can you mute 'em 17:10 < ENKI-][> kanzure: i can't. that's why i asked you to. 17:10 < Bruns> What are you guys trying to do? 17:10 < ENKI-][> i can't mute him until the rewrite, which may take years 17:10 < ENKI-][> the original author was horrible at writing readable python 17:10 < fenn> there are no ops in this channel 17:11 < kanzure> (apparently freenode doesn't believe in going through their "please give us ops" task queue) 17:12 < Bruns> What are you guys wanting to do? get ops in irc? 17:12 < ENKI-][> is the channel registered? because anyone with +f can get ops 17:12 < kanzure> i registered it with the freenode staffers 17:12 < kanzure> and apparently they don't believe in doing their jobs :P 17:12 < ENKI-][> but not with chanserv? 17:12 < kanzure> you can't register with chanserv if people are in the channel other than you 17:13 < kanzure> but yes, i registered with chanserv a few times just for laughs 17:13 < ENKI-][> you can if you have ops. 17:13 < kanzure> nobody has ops 17:13 < ENKI-][> meh 17:13 < ENKI-][> okay. either i take him out until someone gets ops, or you all ignore him 17:14 < kanzure> best you take him out :( 17:14 < ENKI-][> or somebody looks at the codebase and figures out how to fix the commands system 17:14 < kanzure> because freenode has taken more than a year on this 17:14 < asdtoob> I bet.. Yay.. Want my bot.. 17:14 < ENKI-][> asdtoob: you have your bot already 17:14 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:14 < asdtoob> exist.. they call it a bird believe in god are happier.. but you're cute, so it's vipes or siski_.. mmmhm.. 17:15 < ENKI-][> kanzure: alright, i'll take him out 17:15 -!- asdtoob [~asdtoob@c-24-63-206-22.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone. 17:17 < Bruns> hey jay 17:17 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:23 < kanzure> http://pimm.wordpress.com/biodiy/ "fenn said: you should start a mailing list" 17:24 < fenn> my mom is all excited because she has "ray kurzweil's publishing agent" working on her book 17:24 < kanzure> i lol'd 17:24 < fenn> loretta barrett 17:24 < JayDugger> fenn--Your eyes feel dry after taking melatonin? I've never had any eye pain afterwards unless they felt dry. 17:24 < kanzure> bah. 'bio 911' 17:24 < fenn> no, it's not a surface pain, it's like i've been looking at a monitor all day kind of ache 17:25 < JayDugger> Do eye drops help? My eyes dry much faster post-LASIK. 17:26 < JayDugger> That varies with the season and the humidity, and they respond to eye drops. 17:26 < kanzure> (07:28:00 PM) Andrew Hessel: hi bryan 17:26 < kanzure> (07:28:05 PM) kanzure: hey 17:26 < kanzure> (07:28:15 PM) Andrew Hessel: raymond said that you were in town 17:26 < kanzure> (07:28:19 PM) Andrew Hessel: is that true? 17:26 < kanzure> so apparently i don't even know where i am 17:26 < JayDugger> Ha! bad sign, that. 17:26 < fenn> "you may be an informorph if..." 17:27 < JayDugger> ...you measure distance in ping time instead of meters. 17:27 < ENKI-][> in town has very little meaning unless you intend to get laid, play physical competitive sports, or share the same stolen food 17:27 < kanzure> i don't even know raymond 17:27 < kanzure> but i probably should meet him 17:27 < AJollyLife> JayDugger: never had tha tproblem with melatonin 17:27 < ENKI-][> kurzweil? 17:27 < fenn> mccauley probably 17:28 < kanzure> yes, mccauley 17:28 < AJollyLife> ENKI-][: in town lets you meet people in meatspace 17:28 < AJollyLife> and find stuff to do 17:28 < JayDugger> And work on physical artifacts. 17:28 < AJollyLife> yep 17:28 < AJollyLife> in person is just a higher bandwith form of communication at this point 17:29 < ENKI-][> meatspace is very low on my list of priorities. i'm looking for ways of burying it even lower. teledildonics and telepresence, especially with full duplex communication in terms of high precision sensors and manipulators, are probably the best bet right now. 17:29 < JayDugger> You also get different channels: body language remains hard to gauge on-line. 17:29 < fenn> are there any open-to-the-net telepresence setups anywhere? 17:29 < AJollyLife> ENKI-][: that would be nice, but we are not there yet 17:29 < kanzure> AJollyLife: i find in-person to be lower bandwidth in general 17:29 < ENKI-][> for telepresence? 17:30 < kanzure> most of the time the wifi network is down 17:30 < AJollyLife> aw, http://www.fu-fme.com/ no longer works 17:30 < fenn> i know anybots but they're super expensive and not casual at all 17:30 < AJollyLife> but - http://wiki.opendildonics.org/Main_Page 17:30 < ENKI-][> bipedal motion is pretty meh, but certainly a wheeled telepresence rig with a video face and decent anthropomorphic hands is doable 17:31 < fenn> various webcams, as far as hackerspaces go, i only know of the metrixcreatespace one but it seems to have been downgraded to uselessness 17:31 < ENKI-][> i offered to design a teledildonics rig for my ex, but she said that robot cuddling was a turnoff 17:31 < kanzure> #startups is eager to fund teledildonics 17:31 < cluckj> lol 17:31 < QuantumG> is there any telepresence rigs with anthropomorphic hands.. anywhere? 17:32 < JayDugger> That will work to the extent it has the adult industry's support. 17:32 < fenn> QuantumG: no, with 92% confidence 17:32 < Bruns> http://xshit.webs.com/anominon.htm 17:32 < Bruns> ^ praise bob 17:33 < ENKI-][> QuantumG: if there isn't, there will be soon. have you seen the number of elaborate telepresence tutorials on instructables? 17:33 < QuantumG> does anyone understand the techniques used in tele-surgery? 17:33 < kanzure> QuantumG: which techniques do you refer to 17:33 < QuantumG> ENKI: no, url? 17:33 < kanzure> having massive fiber optic pipes between the two locations? is that a technique 17:33 < JayDugger> Do you mean the haptic interfaces? 17:33 < QuantumG> how do they fix the lightspeed delay? just training? 17:34 < fenn> lightspeed delay is not noticeable on earth 17:34 < cluckj> kanzure I think teledildonics involves massive pipes in two locations too 17:34 < kanzure> but processing time might be noticeable 17:34 < QuantumG> with fat pipes I guess that's true 17:34 < JayDugger> Do you mean over-all latency in the system? 17:35 < JayDugger> Order-effect-sense--repeat? 17:36 < QuantumG> yeah.. I'm actually interested in any papers on simulation assisted teleoperation 17:36 < kanzure> QuantumG: there was one paper published by the utexas initiative for teleoperation stuff 17:36 < kanzure> i didn't get a look at the paper title or the paper itself, but i saw a presentation 17:36 < kanzure> something about surgery on a dog? 17:37 < kanzure> plus simulaion on one end 17:37 -!- bdesk [~argriffi@unaffiliated/bdesk] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:37 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279558942.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:37 < JayDugger> There probably exists good deal of information on latency limits in simulation from aviation. 17:38 < JayDugger> Most of which won't be on-line, except for the regulatory standards that limit latency in flight training devices. 17:38 < JayDugger> Those you can probably get from the FAA or JAA websites. 17:39 -!- Bruns [~Bruns@c-68-34-207-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:39 < JayDugger> That won't help you with techniques in hardware or software; it'll at most tell you where the upper limit for latency lies before it affects human perception and verisimilitude. 17:40 < JayDugger> Knowing what flicker frequency means doesn't help you build a motion picture projector. 17:41 < JayDugger> Knowing what flicker frequency equals for human vision only helps a little. 17:42 -!- jcluck [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:45 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:49 < ENKI-][> QuantumG: http://www.instructables.com/id/Sparky-DIY-Web-Based-Telepresence-Robot/ http://www.instructables.com/id/OLPC-Telepresence/ http://www.instructables.com/community/Remote-control-cars-over-the-internet/ at a quick search 17:50 < QuantumG> yeah, it was the articulate humanoid hands that I was referring to 17:50 < bdesk> the speed of light is a bitch 17:51 < ENKI-][> QuantumG: oh. i have an iovine book that has a howto for those 17:51 < ENKI-][> though they aren't terribly hard. just unreliable 17:53 < QuantumG> perhaps making them reliable is what's terribly hard --- Log closed Mon Jul 05 17:53:60 2010 ;; manual log mending --- Log opened Mon Jul 05 18:05:46 2010 18:05 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-80-209.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-80-209.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:07 < kanzure> okay, logs are fixed now to be dumped into %Y-%m-%d.log 18:07 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/logs/2010-07-05.log 18:07 < kanzure> (i'll merge the earlier part of today in when irssi is done with that file handler) 18:07 < jcluck> cool 18:07 -!- jcluck is now known as cluckj 18:07 < kanzure> for everything else: http://gnusha.org/logs/ 18:08 < kanzure> and the master dump: http://gnusha.org/irclogs.txt 18:08 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:11 < fenn> i dont think a humanoid hand is cost effective at this point in consumer robotics 18:12 < bdesk> i know, right? why do we always have to anthropomorphize everything. 18:12 < fenn> smart phone + mirror attachment + telescoping broomstick + rc car 18:12 < fenn> (the cameras are always on the opposite side of the screen, hence the mirror) 18:13 < JayDugger> Because human anatomy's constraints define a large set of interesting problems. 18:13 < ENKI-][> nothing is really cost-effective in consumer robotics. there aren't all that many consumers 18:15 < ENKI-][> remember the eighties, when there were many different brands of damn cool robots (pre-built and otherwise) on the market competing to be the definitive personal robot brand? i don't, because i wasn't alive then, but i've read about it. i imagine most of them went the way of the arctec gemini 18:15 < QuantumG> "telepresence" kinda sets the bar that low 18:15 < ENKI-][> the hero 1 and the gemini were among the most interesting, along with the rbx. 18:16 < QuantumG> "I want to be present" .. ok, fixed camera.. "and I wanna be able to look around" ok. 18:16 < ENKI-][> telepresence sets the bar low enough to trip over. that doesn't mean there's necessarily a market. but if there is, it's not the consumer robotics market 18:16 < bdesk> there are military robots now. in the past, military technology has been adapted for civilian use. 18:17 < ENKI-][> i guess you could consider the predator drones to be telepresence bots. i'm not sure i'd want to have to use one 18:17 < JayDugger> There are military remote-operated vehicles now, and there are military robots. 18:17 < JayDugger> Two different things. 18:17 < QuantumG> I'd like to see a teleoperation/telepresence robot that you can use to rebuild an engine. 18:17 < ENKI-][> i think being able to make hand gestures and throw a ball at someone's head would be reasonable 18:18 < kanzure> ENKI-][: here's one of your competitors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qdXkJVQUfM 18:18 < kanzure> (Newton) 18:18 < ENKI-][> kanzure: i wasn't aware i was in the market 18:18 < kanzure> the competitors that you mentioned. 18:18 < JayDugger> Did YouTube fix the weekend's problem? 18:19 < ENKI-][> sounds like the gemini a bit 18:19 < QuantumG> kanzure: does this become hardcore porn soon? 18:19 < ENKI-][> in terms of capability 18:19 < kanzure> QuantumG: no :( 18:20 < QuantumG> usually this level of 80s acting prowess is following by bass chords and people getting naked. 18:20 < ENKI-][> wow, very similar 18:20 < kanzure> "Long term memory is made possible by a twenty MEGA BYTE hard drive storage device" 18:20 < ENKI-][> the gemini used eight apple II boards 18:20 < kanzure> note the explicit space in "mega byte" 18:20 < JayDugger> Huh? Oh, you mean a door stop. 18:21 < JayDugger> full-height hard drive, right? Weighs about 8 pounds? 18:21 < kanzure> JayDugger: and on wheels. 18:21 < ENKI-][> HE IS CAPABLE OF STRAIGHT LINE MOVEMENT *AND* TURNS 18:21 < QuantumG> and with no hands he's incapable of molesting your kids. 18:22 < kanzure> (we're looking at you, 3PO) 18:23 < kanzure> 5:29 wow what a charger 18:23 < ENKI-][> gemini apparently had procedural narrative generation for telling unique stories. that was awesome 18:23 < ENKI-][> or sounded awesome 18:24 < QuantumG> OMG, that's no robot! They've wrapped Stephen Hawking in white plastic! Damn you Apple! 18:24 < ENKI-][> looks like the charging unit might fall off 18:24 < kanzure> TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED! *inserts floppy* 18:24 < ENKI-][> :D 18:25 < ENKI-][> well, this was near the end of the data casette era 18:25 < kanzure> and the totally retro end theme song 18:26 < ENKI-][> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsh-g4Qond0&feature=related awesome, a hero 18:26 < kanzure> "he'll be part of your famillly / newton / he's helping you through technology / he's a dream to you / bringing the future home to you / he's watching you, newtoooonnnn" 18:26 < QuantumG> damn, all those 80s haircuts.. no wonder so many robots went nuts and killed so many people. 18:26 < kanzure> i can't believe "he's watching you" made it into that song 18:26 < QuantumG> hehe 18:27 < QuantumG> / he's part of our nefarious plot to take over america 18:29 < kanzure> / he can't be stopped / newtoooonnn 18:29 < uniqanomaly> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI acid in bush ;D 18:31 < JayDugger> Good night, everyone. 18:31 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:32 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:32 < ENKI-][> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8dUL9qgU1M&feature=related 18:32 < fenn> off to get lost in cupertino 18:37 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@94-163-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:52 < bkero> lol 18:52 < bkero> fenn: You're in the bay area 18:52 < bkero> ??? 18:52 < bkero> kanzure: are you in the bay area too? 18:52 -!- danielfalck [~chatzilla@pool-71-111-61-3.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52 < bkero> Fffff 18:56 < kanzure> http://www.kurzweilai.net/h-summit-harvard-the-rise-of-the-citizen-scientist?utm_source=KurzweilAI+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=446afe0ae9-UA-946742-1&utm_medium=email 18:56 < kanzure> bkero: not yet 18:57 < bkero> I'm going to be gone tomorrow until Thursday. Mozilla summit in Canada. 18:58 < Alystair> wait what? 18:58 < Alystair> mozilla summit? Where at? 18:58 < bkero> Canada 18:58 < bkero> Whistler, BC 18:58 < Alystair> wtf, their office is in f'n Toronto 18:58 < bkero> I leave at 3:30AM tomorrow morning 18:58 < Alystair> why would it be in BC 18:58 < bkero> Alystair: Whistler is a very posh resort 18:58 < bkero> and Toronto is full of french canadians 18:59 < Alystair> I resent that statement 18:59 < bkero> 'eh? 18:59 < Alystair> I am not French 18:59 < bkero> But am I wrong? 19:00 < Alystair> yes? Toronto is super multicultural 19:00 < Alystair> not really focused on French tho', we have Quebec for that 19:00 < bkero> It's dangerously close 19:00 < Alystair> what do you even do at the summit 19:01 < Alystair> is it a place where I can get a job at Mozilla 19:01 * Alystair googles 19:01 < bkero> drink beer 19:01 < bkero> and argue 19:01 < bkero> If you want a job at mozilla you should have just told me. :P 19:02 < bkero> What do you do/wan to do? 19:02 < bdesk> tell them to start using webkit 19:04 < Alystair> I just reported a bug in chromium recently, or at least the 2d rendering engine :) 19:04 < bkero> So you want to report bugs? :P 19:04 < Alystair> nah 19:04 < Alystair> PM ok? 19:09 < bkero> Ok 19:18 < kanzure> tell them that threads are not evil 19:18 < kanzure> and to rewrite their browser 19:19 < QuantumG> from scratch 19:19 < QuantumG> apparently Opera is awesome in that respect.. if I had any respect for Opera that is. 19:23 < Alystair> why don't you have any respect? 19:23 < Alystair> Opera Mini kicks ass on my E71 19:23 < Alystair> well, it's better than nothing I guess ;D 19:24 < QuantumG> heh.. because from day one they've been saying "Proprietary is better than Free" and making a commercial argument. 19:26 < bdesk> QuantumG: do you think drexler should scan nanosystems and put it on the internets? 19:26 < QuantumG> I'd prefer he did something to actually make the book happen :) 19:28 < AJollyLife> ENKI-][: id totally take my own predator drone though 19:28 < ENKI-][> i'd prefer to build my own hero one, AJollyLife 19:29 < AJollyLife> some guy gave a talk on that at shmoocon this year 19:31 < Alystair> Jolly: your nick is familiar when you mention schmoocon, were you one of the folks behind the pre-generated rainbow tables a few years back? 19:31 < AJollyLife> nope, im not affiliated with church of wifi 19:31 * Alystair is part of the Toronto HacklabTO 19:31 < AJollyLife> i am part of mobile disco, which tends to win a bunch of shmoocon contests, but thats it 19:32 < Alystair> neat 19:32 < AJollyLife> awesome, I've got a few friends from there :) 19:32 < Alystair> Probably Leigh :) 19:32 < AJollyLife> i'm also part of vedagodz/team awesome, but thats more of a defcon thing 19:32 < AJollyLife> yep :) 19:32 < Alystair> that's why I recognize the name 19:32 < Alystair> I've NEVER been to any cons 19:32 < AJollyLife> team awesome, or from leigh? 19:32 < Alystair> leigh, I have no idea why 19:32 < AJollyLife> shes pretty awesome :) 19:32 < Alystair> maybe you idled in #hacklabto or she spoke about you 19:33 < AJollyLife> never been in hacklabto 19:33 < Alystair> my memory is spotty, all I remember are connections, it's f'n bizarre 19:33 < AJollyLife> actually, thanks for reminding me, i have to poke her about recon 19:33 < Alystair> joy of ADHD PI I guess 19:33 < AJollyLife> grr. shes not on irc 19:34 < Alystair> yeah hardly these days 19:34 < AJollyLife> well, she usually idles 19:34 < Alystair> busy lady :) 19:34 < AJollyLife> this is the first time ive actually not seen her online 19:34 < Alystair> not like the days of 2600 19:34 < AJollyLife> and im staying with her for recon....and thats thursday 19:34 * Alystair isn't familiar with recon 19:34 < AJollyLife> heh, shes one of the only people I know who goes to more cons than i do 19:34 < AJollyLife> recon = reverse engineering conference, every two years, in montreal 19:34 < Alystair> oh neat 19:35 < Alystair> I guess what's his name from Chumby goes to that 19:35 < Alystair> Bunny! 19:35 < Alystair> man it's such a small world, really 19:35 < AJollyLife> bunny huang 19:35 < AJollyLife> not sure, its my first recon 19:35 < AJollyLife> but yeah, it really is 19:37 < shrdlu-> um, the primary reason for the investment behind much of military technology is to hand it over to private industry so it can be sold to consumers 19:37 < shrdlu-> oops 19:37 < shrdlu-> reading backscroll 19:37 < kanzure> shrdlu-: we encourage backlog reading in here :) 19:38 < kanzure> bdesk: 'nanosystems' is already on the internest, if you want a copy.. 19:38 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@94-163-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:38 < Alystair> aughh I need to finish this email to Anssi Vanjok 19:38 < kanzure> anssi who now? 19:39 < Alystair> and CC Olli-Pekka if he still works for Nokia ahaha 19:39 < Alystair> ah sorry, Anssi Vanjoki. 19:40 < Alystair> oh wait he's now the new CEO, need to send my congrats for replacing Olli 19:58 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36 < kanzure> anyone know of 'transhumanism' texts that have been published within the last two years? 20:37 < QuantumG> I know of fiction 20:38 < QuantumG> Peter F. Hamilton's latest series is jam packed with transhumanists 20:40 < bdesk> http://jetpress.org/v20/verdoux.htm 20:45 < QuantumG> Stephen Wolfram connected the Singularity to deeper issues related to the nature of complexity and meaning -- a critical perspective, in my view. In the bigger picture, all this technological acceleration is just another phase in the self-organization of complex form that's been going on for billions of years, and will very likely continue long after humans are no longer top dog on this planet. 20:45 < QuantumG> pfft. 20:48 < bdesk> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/stoa/publications/studies/stoa2007-13_en.pdf 20:48 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:49 < bdesk> the link was advertising that as 2009 but i see it is 2007. 20:49 < ENKI-][> hah, nice choice of nick 20:49 < bdesk> no wait it is 2009 20:50 < AJollyLife> QuantumG: which series? 20:52 < QuantumG> Commonwealth Saga: Pandora's Star, Judas Unchained, The Dreaming Void, and The Eveolutionary Void (being written). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Saga 20:53 < AJollyLife> okay :) 20:53 < AJollyLife> thanks! 20:58 < kanzure> QuantumG: well, at least someone mentioned it who has some status 20:58 < kanzure> QuantumG: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ 20:58 < kanzure> i mean, srsly, there's room for complexity science in singularity bullshit 20:58 < kanzure> *singularity bullshitting 20:58 < QuantumG> hmm.. I can't connect to heybryan.org 20:58 < kanzure> hrm 20:59 < kanzure> QuantumG: try now. 20:59 < kanzure> guess i have to turn the server on if i want people to be able to access it huh 20:59 < AJollyLife> minor details 20:59 < kanzure> bah! fools. 20:59 < QuantumG> yeah, what was I looking at? 20:59 < kanzure> hm? 21:00 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ is some discussion on how it's not really linear progress 21:00 < kanzure> er 21:00 < kanzure> i mean, how technological development is more of a result of complex systems effect 21:01 < kanzure> always easier in hindsight, etc. 21:01 < QuantumG> oh, increasing complexity.. sure.. but I expect Goertzel just cherry picked that out of Wolfram's babble. 21:01 < kanzure> oh, absolutely 21:01 < kanzure> his article didn't seem particularly brilliant 21:01 < kanzure> apparently kurzweilai.net is always stretched for articles 21:18 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future:_The_Animated_Series 21:18 < kanzure> "In addition, Bill Nye performed scientific experiments during the closing live-action segments in each episode, a spot which later led to Nye getting his own show)." 21:25 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@94-163-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:30 < AJollyLife> QuantumG: what of peter hamiltons stuff should i try reading first? 21:32 < QuantumG> Misspent Youth is pretty funny.. but I recommend Fallen Dragon, as it is his standalone book. 21:33 < AJollyLife> ok :) 21:35 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.189.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:41 -!- splicer [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:47 -!- Joeconyers [~Joe@ool-182fafef.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:49 -!- shrdlu- [~a@unaffiliated/lizard-x] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:49 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.189.39] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:57 -!- r1776 [~LOL@li48-79.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:18 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@94-163-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:30 -!- splicer [~foo@92.39.2.10] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:32 -!- shepazu [~schepers@79-68-147-186.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: shepazu] 23:09 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.189.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:18 -!- splicer_wrk [~foo@92.39.2.10] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:20 -!- splicer_wrk is now known as splicer_ 23:21 -!- splicer [~foo@92.39.2.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:27 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.189.39] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:47 -!- streety [~Jonathan@93.182.151.47] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:47 < fenn> yep, vampires, all of them. 23:48 < fenn> i sit down next to an empty chair and this lady sits down next to me http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3298/4568134908_dea4e6e916.jpg 23:48 < fenn> note the frilly collar, that's to hide the bite marks 23:52 < fenn> i'm lucky to have escaped alive 23:58 < splicer_> (cougar encounter) 23:58 -!- splicer_ is now known as splicer --- Log closed Tue Jul 06 00:00:17 2010