--- Log opened Thu Jul 08 00:00:17 2010 00:48 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@216.195.210.138] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:10 -!- streety1 [~s0678364@cpat002.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:18 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:45 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-236-113.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:53 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-236-113.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:09 < cluckj> kanzure I think I found the guy you were saying was from my area 03:09 < cluckj> bob keys? 03:09 < cluckj> he just posted to the ml 03:28 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29 -!- cluckj [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:59 -!- Joeconyers [~Joe@ool-182fafef.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:05 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:15 -!- Joeconyers [~Joe@ool-182fafef.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:33 < ENKI-][> kanzure: i'm sure you are probably aware of this trick, but you might not be -- but the most meaniningful phrases are closest to mean frequency, usually (which does not mean that they are particularly frequent; if you graph word frequency you tend to get a bathtub curve) 05:35 < bdesk> i'm pretty sure you don't 05:36 < ENKI-][> meh. try it? 05:37 < ENKI-][> i use that heuristic for markov chain bots, and it works better than most of the other ones i've used. i've never tested it empirically, just read it somewhere 05:37 < bdesk> i probably just misunderstand the axes of your curve 05:38 < ENKI-][> the number of extremely common words and the number of unique words that appear only once or twice are both very large in terms of instances compared to the count of words with frequencies closer to the average 05:39 < bdesk> when i think 'plot of word frequency', I think of something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-n-zipf.png 05:39 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:39 < ENKI-][> on the right side you have the count of "the", "and", "of", etc. on the left side you have the count of words that appear only once, like "jabberwocken" and "etcsl-corporae" 05:41 < ENKI-][> of course, if we're talking information theory, then the least frequent words a priori contain more information. however, people generally have a threshhold below which uniqueness constitutes noise 05:50 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:50 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:59 -!- bdesk [~argriffi@unaffiliated/bdesk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:02 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:11 -!- bdesk [~argriffi@brcdesk18.statgen.ncsu.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:31 -!- Joeconyers [~Joe@ool-182fafef.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:32 -!- Joeconyers [~Joe@ool-182fafef.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:39 -!- bdesk [~argriffi@brcdesk18.statgen.ncsu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 06:39 -!- bdesk [~argriffi@unaffiliated/bdesk] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:45 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:28 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 07:32 -!- metaliving [~aaaa@athedsl-4506678.home.otenet.gr] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:33 < kanzure> hi metaliving 07:33 < metaliving> hey 07:34 < metaliving> did anyone here write this on the emotiv forum? 07:34 < metaliving> I have written some python apps to read data from the EPOC. If you're interested in the development of this, check out #hplusroadmap on the freenode IRC network. 07:34 < kanzure> yes 07:34 < kanzure> that was me 07:34 < metaliving> oh, nice 07:34 < metaliving> what do you think of the epoc eeg readings? 07:34 < kanzure> i think they are annoying 07:34 < kanzure> AES 512 encryption? really? sigh 07:35 < metaliving> disregarding the encryption 07:35 < metaliving> are they accurate enough? 07:35 < kanzure> i haven't been able to break the encryption yet 07:35 < metaliving> have you done any feature detection using machine learning? 07:35 < kanzure> i think the encryption key is embedded in the .exe files that they distribute 07:36 < metaliving> oh, you bought the commercial version? 07:36 < kanzure> what? 07:36 < kanzure> i have an emotiv epoc, the standard consumer version 07:36 < kanzure> if it's encrypted, and the programs are decrypting the information, there has to be a key in the .exe file 07:37 < kanzure> there's no other way.. unless it's making up the data 07:37 < metaliving> yeah, got that 07:37 < metaliving> so those python apps can't read the data yet? 07:37 < kanzure> right :( 07:37 < kanzure> yeah, no machine learning, no SVMs, etc. 07:37 < kanzure> sorry to disappointing. my decrypt-foo isn't as strong as it should be :) 07:37 < metaliving> i was thinking of buying the research edition 07:37 < kanzure> eek 07:37 < kanzure> why? 07:37 < metaliving> too expensive though :| 07:38 < kanzure> whenever 'thesnark' logs in today, you might ask him about his project 07:38 < kanzure> he decided to just replace the encoding chips in his emotiv 07:38 < kanzure> i forget the exact part numbers 07:38 < JayDugger> Did that work/ 07:38 < JayDugger> ? 07:39 < kanzure> dunno- last i heard the project was going well, but i haven't heard any details 07:40 < metaliving> i guess an openeeg machine is also an option 07:41 < metaliving> with crappy and noisy readings 07:41 < kanzure> thesnark was thinking of doing a 32-channel openeeg 07:42 < metaliving> nice 07:42 < kanzure> metaliving: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/emotiv/epoc/ 07:42 < kanzure> hm the .py file isn't in there 07:43 * kanzure digs around 07:49 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:50 < metaliving> can you even hope of breaking an aes 512 encryption? 07:50 < metaliving> has it been done? :p 07:50 < metaliving> sounds way too unlikely 07:50 < kanzure> i don't think it has to be broken 07:51 < kanzure> i mean, somehow the programs are already using the data 07:51 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure they have an AES key embedded in them 07:51 < kanzure> so we just pipe the .exe files and .dll files through 'strings' or something 07:51 < kanzure> and find it :) 07:52 < metaliving> i see 07:52 < eridu> there's no such thing as "AES 512" 07:52 < kanzure> uh, are you sure? 07:52 < eridu> I would be extremely surprised 07:52 < bdesk> "Key sizes of 128, 160, 192, 224, and 256 bits are supported by the Rijndael algorithm, but only the 128, 192, and 256-bit key sizes are specified in the AES standard." 07:53 < kanzure> huh 07:53 < kanzure> uh 07:53 < kanzure> i wonder where i .. 07:53 < eridu> there is certainly no implementation of "AES 512" in any free software system 07:53 < eridu> or in any widely-used proprietary system, either 07:53 < eridu> don't feel bad about it, I could have sworn once that I had seen "AES 1024" ;-) 07:55 < kanzure> i'm wondering how i originally "found" that it was AES 512, so that i could go repeat it and see if i just misremembered 08:00 < metaliving> "I agree rip. In all of my dealings with the Emotiv people I never once got the impression that they were technically ignorant. Customer service seems to be lacking a bit, but they’ve always known their stuff (especially Gmac). I have actually received private messages/comments regarding this from people who are actively attempting to reverse engineer the device, stating that the AES 512 key is easily obtainable and that they are 08:00 < metaliving> in the process of looking into this as well as possible chip-swaps in the headset and dongle to give them more access to data." 08:00 < metaliving> http://killerprojects.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/arduino-assisted-mind-controlled-tv-using-eeg/ 08:00 < metaliving> here perhaps? 08:06 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:09 < metaliving> damn, next best plan is creating a biofeedback club in college and asking the student board for money 08:11 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@69.86.203.77] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:19 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@216.195.210.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28 < Ian_Daniher> kanzure: what about adding something to the #diybio channel header about #hplusroadmap? 08:28 < Ian_Daniher> kanzure: "if we don't answer, swing by #hplusroadmap" 08:31 -!- splicer [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:04 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:11 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has quit [Quit: mheld] 09:19 < kanzure> i'm watching this: http://www.tvworldwide.com/events/bioethics/100708/globe_show/default_go.cfm?live=1&type=flv 09:20 < kanzure> Ian_Daniher: i'm not channel operator in that channel 09:26 < kanzure> international association synthetic biology http://www.ia-sb.eu/go/synthetic-biology/ 09:26 < kanzure> huh they'll have markus schmidt? 09:34 < kanzure> the transcriber sucks 09:37 < splicer> that was interesting... thanks bryan 09:48 -!- streety1 [~s0678364@cpat002.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has left #hplusroadmap [] 09:51 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:04 < kanzure> this might be a better link for finding the streams: http://www.tvworldwide.com/events/bioethics/100708/# 10:04 -!- metaliving [~aaaa@athedsl-4506678.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:09 -!- quantumkat [~Kat@ip72-196-125-41.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:16 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:18 < phryk> A better link for the bioethics.gov thing is mms://wm.tvworldwide.com/100708_bioethics you can directly watch that with mplayer (vlc should work, too) 10:23 -!- nima [~nima@adsl-75-45-240-115.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:29 -!- klafka [~klafka@129.21.68.219] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:30 -!- metaliving [~aaaa@athedsl-4506678.home.otenet.gr] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:39 < kanzure> hi nima, hi metaliving 10:44 < nima> Hello kanzure 10:46 -!- metaliving [~aaaa@athedsl-4506678.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:03 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@64.134.98.150] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:06 -!- metaliving [~aaaa@athedsl-4506678.home.otenet.gr] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:11 < splicer> fucking etc group 11:13 < pmetzger> the etc group is nutty. 11:14 < bdesk> "Synthia is Alive and Breeding: Panacea or Pandora's Box?" 11:17 < kanzure> hah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Alley 11:19 < kanzure> 12:06 < salat_> heyho 11:19 < kanzure> 12:13 < salat_> could someone tell me whats the actual state of diy biotechnologie? i mean...i searched for diy pcr and expected a whole bunch of plans of diy pcrs. even successful electrophoresis experiments seem to be rare 11:19 < kanzure> heh 11:19 < kanzure> there's actually a lot of PCR stuff under a different name (non-diy) 11:20 < kanzure> it's interesting to see the transcription occuring on the stream 11:20 < pmetzger> the kids at SF state competed in the annual synthetic bio contest at MIT using what was essentially DIY equipment in a makeshift lab. 11:20 < kanzure> important details are totally kept out 11:20 < pmetzger> there is lots of DIY stuff going on, it is just not called that. 11:20 < kanzure> "oh they aren't slave workers.. we'll just leave that part of the sentene out" 11:20 < kanzure> *sentence 11:20 < kanzure> it's like a big brother filter happening in real time 11:20 < pmetzger> what are you talking about? 11:20 < kanzure> are you watching the stream? 11:21 < pmetzger> no why would I? 11:21 < kanzure> there's a live transcriber sitting in that room 11:21 < kanzure> and it's weird. 11:21 < pmetzger> it seems a pointless as listening to congressional hearings. 11:21 < pmetzger> it is all about politics, and politics as practiced by irrational people. 11:21 < pmetzger> which is to say, most people. 11:21 < kanzure> you're full of shit again 11:21 < pmetzger> ???? 11:21 < kanzure> the earlier discussion was actually fairly informative on synthetic biology 11:21 < kanzure> did you read the transcript? 11:21 < pmetzger> no. 11:22 < pmetzger> the word "bioethics" came up. 11:22 * kanzure finds the link 11:22 < kanzure> well it wasn't about bioethics 11:22 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/8b5da86b61a8154 11:22 < pmetzger> anything that might be about bioethics, I ignore. :) 11:22 < phryk> pmetzger: Why that? 11:22 < kanzure> it wasn't about bioethics 11:23 < pmetzger> bioethics = religious people telling other people they can't get particular medical treatments etc. 11:23 < splicer> (bioethics in religious context means almost exclusively abortion issues apparently) 11:24 < pmetzger> bioethics is generally about what we mustn't do to living things. it is a weird, self-appointed discipline 11:24 < pmetzger> the people who are part of it are generally religious or cryptoreligious. 11:24 < pmetzger> and I don't like wasting my time. 11:24 < kanzure> i'm sorry, but claiming venter or george church are bioethicists is just full of shit 11:25 < pmetzger> so they're at this thing. 11:25 < pmetzger> probably out of self defense. 11:25 < kanzure> actually, no 11:25 < kanzure> did you read the transcript? 11:25 < pmetzger> Venter has a good track record of protecting himself well from this stuff. 11:25 < pmetzger> Will I learn anything from the transcript? 11:25 < kanzure> the government was asking "where can we dump money on you, kthxbai" 11:25 < kanzure> i think so, yes 11:25 < pmetzger> I have actual work to do. 11:26 < pmetzger> Grant proposals are a well understood system. :) 11:26 < pmetzger> one doesn't need to watch long video streams to learn how to write them. 11:26 < kanzure> this wasn't about grants. 11:26 < pmetzger> so you said the government was asking where to dump money. 11:26 < kanzure> yeah they were quite supportive of their work in synthetic biology 11:26 < pmetzger> the usual method by which the government dumps money on science is via DARPA, NSF, the national institutes, etc. 11:27 < kanzure> yes i know that 11:27 < pmetzger> one produces proposals for them, they get peer reviewed, some money comes out. 11:27 < pmetzger> a small amount is spent via earmarks, which requires political mudwrestling to get. 11:27 < phryk> I'm really wondering what DARPA really does... 11:27 < pmetzger> DARPA does research. 11:27 < pmetzger> lots of research funding. 11:27 < phryk> They always have shitloads of projects you never hear about again... 11:27 < pmetzger> my advisor worked at DARPA for a while. 11:28 < phryk> pmetzger: Do you know what happened to that invisibility-cloak programme? 11:28 < kanzure> the metamaterial program? 11:28 < pmetzger> anyway, I'm happy to read papers or watch technical presentations, but general introductions to fields I already have general introductions to aren't very interesting. 11:28 < kanzure> aren't there like twenty of them? 11:28 < pmetzger> there are a lot of people working on metamaterials. 11:28 < pmetzger> and most of the reason to do the work is unrelated to "invisibility" 11:28 < pmetzger> microscopy is the best reason to care. 11:29 < phryk> kanzure: yes that 11:30 < pmetzger> kanzure: how will my ability to do my research improve if I watch this video or read a transcript? 11:31 < kanzure> you'll be less full of it when you claim venter is a bioethicist? 11:31 < pmetzger> I didn't claim he was. 11:31 < splicer> i think only kanzure does 11:31 < kanzure> what? 11:32 < splicer> he is an industrialist... and he belongs in the discussion 11:32 < splicer> for that reason 11:32 < kanzure> splicer: i definitely *do not* think that venter is a bioethicist 11:32 < splicer> but you seem to claim someone has said that 11:32 < kanzure> pmetzger: you were implying some sort of kooty-theory that because they are speaking on a conference schedule with others who you find to be less than, ah, relevant (which i agree with), that therefore what they said is also irrelevant 11:32 < kanzure> splicer: pmetzger did. 11:33 < kanzure> read the logs, yo 11:33 < splicer> k 11:33 < pmetzger> most of what they say at such conferences is irrelevant, yes, because it is pitched at a general audience. 11:33 < pmetzger> it is introductory material designed to make other people listening less afraid of what they do. 11:33 < kanzure> it's really not hard to skim over some text and figure out if it's BS or not 11:33 < pmetzger> it isn't a scientific presentation of work that I would find interesting because it would teach me about new techniques etc. 11:33 < kanzure> i'm not going to continue arguing with you about this 11:33 < kanzure> it's just reading, pmetzger 11:33 < pmetzger> I don't even understand what you're arguing about. 11:34 < kanzure> you've spent more time trying to convince me that i'm wrong, without looking at the text, with more time than it would have taken you to just glance at it 11:34 < pmetzger> I didn't try to convince you you were wrong. 11:34 < kanzure> *sigh* 11:34 < pmetzger> All I said was I was uninterested in reading about this conference. 11:34 < kanzure> you were claiming it was pointless 11:34 < pmetzger> that's all I said. 11:34 < pmetzger> and I explained why. 11:34 < kanzure> and i was claiming it was not 11:34 < kanzure> what's hard to understand about this? 11:34 < pmetzger> are they discussing stuff I don't know? 11:34 < pmetzger> if not, it is pointless for me to read about it, yes. 11:34 < bdesk> kanzure: paste the juicy bits from the transcript 11:35 < pmetzger> Venter has a lot of money he gets from the government. he's in a politically sensitive spot. 11:35 < pmetzger> so he spends a lot of time schmoozing. 11:35 < pmetzger> that's great. 11:35 < kanzure> pmetzger: how would i know what you know? 11:35 < kanzure> nobody said he was schmoozing (except you) 11:35 < pmetzger> but I don't have to read transcripts of him schmoozing. 11:35 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@64.134.98.150] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:35 < kanzure> who said he was schmoozing? 11:35 < pmetzger> is this a technical conference? 11:35 < kanzure> wtf 11:35 < pmetzger> if not, he's schmoozing, just like H+ was all schmoozing. 11:35 < kanzure> uhuh 11:36 < kanzure> well, i won't disagree with that, a lot of the hplus summit was bullshitting 11:36 < pmetzger> a technical conference people present new, interesting results in a scientifically interesting way. 11:36 < pmetzger> at a conference like the one you pointed at, people discuss things with policy makers and produce introductions to a field for laypeople. 11:36 < kanzure> and i'm telling you that you're wrong 11:36 < kanzure> i've watched it, transcribed it, and have digested it 11:36 < pmetzger> I've just scanned through the transcript. 11:36 < kanzure> so wtf are you smoking? 11:37 < splicer> kanzure: can't find it, but that discussion seems to be over anyway 11:37 < kanzure> in the time that you've been arguing? 11:37 < pmetzger> I see nothing here that's not an introduction for lay people. 11:37 < kanzure> splicer: hm? yeah, the current streaming stuff is crap 11:37 < pmetzger> I can read and type a line or two at the same time, yah. 11:37 < kanzure> pmetzger: there's a lot of proprietary information that they dumped that is not available in the literature 11:38 < pmetzger> maybe, but I wouldn't absorb it anyway. my area is mnt, not synthetic biology. 11:38 < pmetzger> I wouldn't know the first thing about lab technique etc. 11:38 < kanzure> it's really weird how territorial you are 11:38 < kanzure> :( 11:38 < pmetzger> no. 11:38 < kanzure> i'm going to stop bothering now 11:38 < pmetzger> You're imagining an argument. 11:38 < kanzure> uh 11:38 < pmetzger> I'm not arguing with you. you're arguing with you. 11:38 < pmetzger> really. 11:38 < kanzure> wtf? 11:39 < kanzure> you've posited some statements that i disagreed with 11:39 < kanzure> so i presented reasoning 11:39 < pmetzger> I think you need another 20 years experience using chat channels. 11:39 < kanzure> argument from authority 11:39 < bkero> what. 11:39 < pmetzger> Argument from experience. You're assuming I'm having an argument with you. 11:39 < pmetzger> you're getting angry, I'm just saying I don't care much about this conference. 11:40 < pmetzger> It isn't relevant to me. 11:40 < kanzure> pmetzger: i'm not assuming anything, all i have is the logs here 11:40 < kanzure> i am not angry :) 11:40 < bdesk> kanzure: make a blog of the relevant parts of the bioethics thingy 11:40 < kanzure> just confused and worried 11:40 < kanzure> bdesk: huh? why should i? 11:40 < pmetzger> worried that I have other things to do? 11:40 < kanzure> pmetzger: no, worried that you categorically exclude things without reading it 11:40 < kanzure> or skimming it, rather 11:40 < pmetzger> I did skim it. I saw nothing I deeply cared about. 11:41 < kanzure> but that was after me prodding you a lot 11:41 < kanzure> or maybe the last 10 minutes have been a blur? 11:41 < pmetzger> I have a lot of experience in deciding not to look at things. 11:41 < pmetzger> you insisted, so I looked. 11:41 < kanzure> okay. great. 11:41 < kanzure> then my job is done here :P 11:41 < pmetzger> There are about 300 papers that come to my attention in a given week, and two or three conferences. 11:41 < pmetzger> If I paid even a few minutes of attention to each I would not get anything done. 11:41 < kanzure> i doubt that, but please forward me the 300 papers/week 11:42 < pmetzger> So I spend a lot of time being "prejudiced". 11:42 < pmetzger> And generally my prejudices are correct. 11:42 < kanzure> i see 11:42 < pmetzger> as just one example, lots of my CSy friends told me to look at google wave 11:42 < kanzure> well, forward me the 300 papers/week to me 11:42 < kanzure> and i'll be anti-prejudiced for you or something 11:42 < pmetzger> I said "if it becomes a big thing, I'll look at it. right now, I see no more reason to worry about it than I did DCE or 80 other technologies that went nowhere" 11:42 < pmetzger> and I was right. 11:42 < kanzure> i think google wave has some interesting algorithms for distributed revision control 11:43 < pmetzger> it might, but I'm not a distributed revision control guy. 11:43 < kanzure> prejudice again? 11:43 < pmetzger> I work on different things, and I can't learn about everything. 11:43 < kanzure> uhuh 11:43 < pmetzger> I can't even read every article in science and nature every week. 11:43 < pmetzger> those come right to my door, I just have to spend a few hours on it 11:43 < pmetzger> and i don't. 11:43 < pmetzger> because most of the content is in fields I don't follow and have no time for. 11:44 < pmetzger> those are some of the hundreds of papers that go by me every week. 11:44 < splicer> boys ... time to take your meds 11:44 < kanzure> splicer: ? 11:44 < kanzure> i think we're just talking now, aren't we? 11:44 < pmetzger> science and nature alone count for like 50. 11:45 < pmetzger> then there are RSS feeds I subscribe to for various chemistry and physics papers. 11:45 < pmetzger> etc. 11:45 < pmetzger> and i generally read only a very tiny fraction. 11:45 < kanzure> pmetzger: if you want more rss, try http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/rss/ 11:45 < kanzure> it's the rss feeds for the majority of scientific journals 11:45 < kanzure> (something i monitor) 11:46 < pmetzger> I'd rather not monitor so much stuff. I get too much information in my day already. 11:46 < pmetzger> I have a dozen books I have to read and haven't started on. 11:47 < pmetzger> I need less information in my day, more time to digest what I already know and what I already know i need to learn. 11:49 < bdesk> pmetzger: distributed revision control is good to use even if you don't care about its algorithms. 11:49 < pmetzger> why? 11:50 < pmetzger> I do use it -- I use things like git and hg. 11:50 < kanzure> then why are you asking why 11:50 < pmetzger> but why should I learn about the algorithms in more detail? 11:50 < kanzure> bdesk specifically said "even if you don't care about its algorithms" 11:50 < kanzure> so your question seems irrelevant 11:50 < pmetzger> you suggested that google wave was interesting because of the distributed revision control algorithms 11:50 < pmetzger> I said that's not my area of study. 11:50 < kanzure> bdesk isn't talking about that 11:51 < pmetzger> I didn't say I don't like distributed revision control. I said I didn't learn about google wave and it turned out I was right not to learn about it. 11:52 < kanzure> well you specifically said: 11:52 < kanzure> 13:43 < pmetzger> it might, but I'm not a distributed revision control guy. 11:52 < kanzure> 13:43 < pmetzger> I work on different things, and I can't learn about everything. 11:52 < pmetzger> Correct. 11:52 < kanzure> implying that you didn't want to learn about git and hg 11:53 < pmetzger> I don't write distributed revision control systems. 11:53 < pmetzger> I just use them. 11:53 < kanzure> and other distributed revision control systems 11:53 < pmetzger> I'm not a aircraft engineer either, so I don't read about developments in aeronautics. 11:53 < pmetzger> but I do fly in planes. 11:54 * bkero learns about everything. 11:54 < kanzure> 8) 11:54 * bkero however, is nothing. 11:55 < pmetzger> I learn a little about many things, but there is more to learn than my brain can absorb or that I've got time for. 11:55 < pmetzger> I didn't learn chemistry or quantum mechanics until I really needed them, though they are plenty interesting topics. 11:56 < pmetzger> I love learning interesting things that are not entirely relevant to my field, but there are limits. 12:00 < pmetzger> becoming a real expert at anything takes something like 10,000 hours. there are perhaps 2000 hours of work a person can do per year, and that is pushing it. 12:00 < pmetzger> there are thus serious limits to how many things one can be an expert at in a human lifetime. 12:00 < pmetzger> and we forget things very quickly. 12:01 < pmetzger> if you don't use a skill like calculus for ten years it is largely gone. 12:15 -!- Lentur [~lentur@p54B9F9D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:17 < kanzure> lol at governments debating vitalism 12:24 -!- Lentur [~lentur@p54B9F9D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Java user signed off] 12:26 < bdesk> man cannot live on bread alone, and you need a fifth jar if you want to create life with four jars of nucleotides. 12:35 < cluckj> 10000 hours sounds about right 12:35 < kanzure> there were various studies about that number 12:35 < kanzure> i mean, that reported that number 12:37 < cluckj> a PhD takes about 5-6 years 12:37 < bdesk> that number is from gladwell 12:37 < bdesk> well, popularized by him. 12:38 < bdesk> it is 'truthy' so he is famous. 12:38 < bdesk> his schtick is to say truthy things so that you will say 'that sounds about right' and then feel smart and tell your friends. 12:38 < cluckj> haha 12:39 < cluckj> he's a memesmith 12:39 < kanzure> man's a genius 12:39 < kanzure> :P 12:48 < kanzure> i am fairly impressed with Allen Buchanan 12:49 < kanzure> http://fds.duke.edu/db/aas/Philosophy/allen.buchanan 12:51 < bdesk> "Institutionalizing the Just War." 13:07 -!- shepazutoo [~schepers@adsl-69-180-215.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:09 -!- shepazu [~schepers@adsl-242-235-39.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:11 < streety> the figure of 5-6 years must be region (and possibly subject) specific 13:12 < streety> in the UK for bio/medicine it's 3-4 years 13:13 * splicer is impressed by Buchanan too 13:15 -!- metaliving [~aaaa@athedsl-4506678.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:17 < kanzure> why don't we have buchanan talking for humanity+? 13:17 < kanzure> anyway, i just posted the transcript to diybio 13:18 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/8b5da86b61a8154 13:21 < bdesk> http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Humanity-Biomedical-Enhancement-Practical/dp/0199587817 13:21 < bdesk> Duke University, 2002 to present. James B. Duke Distinguished Professor of Philosophy 13:21 < bdesk> Consultant, (U.S.) President's Council on Bioethics, 2007-- 13:21 < bdesk> he probably doesn't have a lot of spare time... 13:22 < kanzure> hrm 13:25 < splicer> +maybe it's a case of "That would look great on your cv, no so good on mine" 13:32 < kanzure> ha ha ha 13:32 < kanzure> http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jul2-NT 13:33 < kanzure> http://bit.ly/GSP10BookList 13:33 < kanzure> https://sites.google.com/a/singularityu.org/gsp10/feedback/week-2 13:33 < kanzure> http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jul2-NT-discussion 13:33 < kanzure> https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/fileview?id=0B6vjqTaW5opaMTU0NzU3ZDQtZGY0Yi00ZTdmLThiNzgtMjI2NzBlMGVkMjAy&hl=en 13:34 < kanzure> https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/fileview?id=0B6vjqTaW5opaMTU0NzU3ZDQtZGY0Yi00ZTdmLThiNzgtMjI2NzBlMGVkMjAy&hl=en 13:34 < kanzure> oh, same link 13:34 < kanzure> http://www.nims.go.jp/nanomechanics/Science.html 13:34 < kanzure> http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/322/5900/413 13:34 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yka5u_Ax6z8 13:34 < kanzure> https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/fileview?id=0B6vjqTaW5opaNWQyYjVhMDktNzJmNS00Mjg4LTkxN2QtNjBhZDEzOTZiZTFm&hl=en 13:34 < kanzure> http://singularityu.org/gsp10pads/ 13:34 < kanzure> http://su-etherpad.com/ 13:35 < kanzure> oh fuck 13:35 < kanzure> hax0r 13:35 < bdesk> ? 13:37 < kanzure> https://spreadsheets0.google.com/a/singularityu.org/ccc?key=tXpgGxzhxL2sKHiHllloUJg&hl=en_GB#gid=0 13:37 < kanzure> http://www.neuroinformatics2010.org/speakers/yukiyasu-kamitani 13:37 < kanzure> http://www.omneuron.com/technology2.htm 13:38 < kanzure> http://goo.gl/mUgv 13:38 < kanzure> http://prq.sagepub.com/content/62/3/584.full.pdf+html 13:38 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ewing_Duncan 13:38 < kanzure> bdesk: this is from singularityu.org's $25,000 program 13:38 < kanzure> http://experimentalman.com/ 13:38 < kanzure> http://su-etherpad.com/Pad-One-Liner 13:38 < kanzure> http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jul01-MED 13:38 < kanzure> http://omneuron.com/ 13:39 < kanzure> http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee73/tricks-and-illusions/dalmatian-illusion.jpg 13:39 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJJPbpHoPWo&feature=related 13:39 < kanzure> http://www.neurosky.com/ 13:39 < kanzure> http://www.neuroinformatics2010.org/speakers/yukiyasu-kamitani 13:39 < kanzure> http://www.tedhuntington.com/neuron_images_from_brain_using_MRI.jpg 13:39 < kanzure> http://www.omneuron.com/technology2.htm 13:39 < kanzure> http://davidewingduncan.com/ 13:40 < kanzure> http://www.entelos.com/index.php 13:40 < kanzure> http://singularity.backchan.nl/meetings/view/147 13:40 < kanzure> http://singularity.backchan.nl/meetings/view/148 13:40 < kanzure> http://singularity.backchan.nl/meetings/view/149 13:40 < kanzure> integrative medicine slides: http://bit.ly/ajjKKf (rachel schneyer) 13:41 < kanzure> chris longhurst slides on medical informatics: http://bit.ly/9aTPMc 13:41 < kanzure> bioethics.gov is asking for emails from the public :P 13:42 < kanzure> eri gentry slides https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/leaf?id=0ByuGXnC_X6-QNGU2ZGM0NDgtOWIzMy00ZTI3LWI4ZjgtMWQxYzU3NmFiMjE1&hl=en 13:42 < kanzure> http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jun29-NCS-CL1 13:42 < kanzure> http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jun29-NCS-CL3 13:42 < kanzure> Mac: DIYBio was founded in 2002. 13:42 < kanzure> wtf 13:42 < kanzure> http://bit.ly/diybio-squid 13:43 < kanzure> http://www.microbialfuelcell.org/www/) 13:43 < kanzure> http://www.lava-amp.com/ 13:43 < kanzure> http://www.symbiotica.uwa.edu.au/ 13:43 < kanzure> http://www.caedefensefund.org/faq.html 13:43 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseradish_peroxidase 13:43 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemochromatosis 13:43 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA 13:44 < kanzure> http://www.quirky.com/ hm? 13:44 < kanzure> DNA dating websites http://scientificmatch.com/ http://genepartner.com/ 13:44 < kanzure> http://singularity.backchan.nl/meetings/view/140 13:44 < kanzure> https://spreadsheets.google.com/a/singularityu.org/viewform?formkey=dGVzY3JzR3VFeTJjSElVcjM3REFpY0E6MQ 13:46 < kanzure> commentary for bioethics.gov: info@bioethics.gov 13:46 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaminase 13:47 < kanzure> http://www.newmedici.com/accelerator/ 13:48 < kanzure> evolution of directed evolution: http://bit.ly/cH4aRj 13:48 < kanzure> paul rothemund slides on dna origami https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/leaf?id=0B6vjqTaW5opaYjBkM2I3YTktZmVhYy00MjExLTg1MTAtMTExY2IwYmI2YjEy&sort=name&layout=list&pid=0B2Ij9HPeinaFOTU0MDYzNDUtOWYzMS00MWI5LTlhNmYtYzc5MWU2Y2YzYjM5&cindex=4 13:48 < kanzure> http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jul7-BB-links 13:48 < kanzure> "digital biopiracy" wut 13:49 < kanzure> http://www.affymetrix.com/ 13:49 < kanzure> http://www.appliedbiosystems.com 13:49 < kanzure> http://www.genome.gov/20019523 genome wide association study 13:49 < kanzure> http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7335474/claims.html) 13:49 < kanzure> http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1000993 Web-Based, Participant-Driven Studies Yield Novel Genetic Associations for Common Traits"PLoS Genet 13:49 < kanzure> http://www.brainstormrf.org/ 13:49 < kanzure> third generation sequencing http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090206/full/news.2009.86.html) 13:50 < kanzure> Net-Gen includes Illumina, Life Technologies, Roche/454, etc. 13:50 < kanzure> Next-Next-Gen includes Helicos, Pacific Biosciences, SZ Genomics, Halcyon Molecular, Lightspeed Genomics, etc. 13:50 < kanzure> https://dnanexus.com/ 13:50 < kanzure> FDA letter to Pathway: http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/ResourcesforYou/Industry/ucm211866.htm) 13:50 < kanzure> california state senator on personal genome tests: http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_482&sess=CUR&house=B&site=sen 13:50 < kanzure> 2006 interview genetic ethics http://bioethics.georgetown.edu/pcbe/transcripts/nov06/session4.html) 13:50 < kanzure> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/1000_Genomes_Project 13:51 < kanzure> http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/06/ff_sergeys_search/all/1) 13:51 < kanzure> http://www.codexis.com/) 13:51 < kanzure> http://www.codexis.com/ 13:51 < kanzure> biotech hall of fame http://www.chemheritage.org/exhibits/biotech/zaffaroni.html 13:51 < splicer> (/b/) 13:51 < kanzure> directed evolution enzyme http://www.che.caltech.edu/groups/fha/cara.pdf 13:51 < kanzure> splicer: this isn't as random as you think 13:51 < kanzure> catalog of molecular parts http://www.pdb.org/pdb/home/home.do) 13:51 < kanzure> gah 13:51 < kanzure> catalog of molecular parts http://www.pdb.org/pdb/home/home.do 13:52 < kanzure> http://virtual.itg.uiuc.edu/training/AFM_tutorial 13:52 < kanzure> shih lab stuff http://research4.dfci.harvard.edu/shih/SHIH_LAB/Home.html 13:52 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_computing 13:54 < kanzure> more slides https://rcpt.yousendit.com/901735785/867fc465d610e68adc0da5b0e4a4c9e7 13:54 < kanzure> https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/uc?id=0ByuGXnC_X6-QNTNiNmUyMDctNDk1OS00YTg0LTg0OTYtYmVhMzYzMTk4ZjUw&export=download&hl=en 13:55 < kanzure> raymond mccauley's presentation http://prezi.com/zd2ibyqy2jik/digitial-biology-biology-under-moores-law/ 13:55 < kanzure> http://www.mindjet.com/index3.html 13:55 < kanzure> https://sites.google.com/a/singularityu.org/powertools/ 13:55 < kanzure> digital stethoscope iphone app http://www.thinklabsmedical.com/ 13:55 < kanzure> Used to have halter monitor. Shrunk - iRhythm. Put on chest for week, put it in the mail, get analysis of your heart rate. http://www.irhythmtech.com/zio-solution/zio-patch/ 13:56 < kanzure> http://www.quantifiedself.com/ 13:56 < kanzure> philips directlife sensewear http://www.directlife.philips.com/ 13:56 < kanzure> http://www.sensewear.com/ 13:56 < kanzure> http://www.bodymedia.com/ 13:56 < kanzure> http://www.ted.com/talks/dean_kamen_previews_a_new_prosthetic_arm.html 13:56 < kanzure> geomedicine http://www.esri.com/industries/health/geomedicine/index.html 13:57 < kanzure> http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2009/07/15-01.html 13:57 < kanzure> http://www.patientslikeme.com/als/community 13:57 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyNBZMjz2QU 13:57 < kanzure> http://video.google.com/a/singularityu.org/#/Play/contentId=12569090359a5e04 13:57 < kanzure> https://sites.google.com/a/singularityu.org/gsp10/feedback/week-2 13:59 < kanzure> http://tedxnyed.com/ 13:59 < kanzure> http://college.wikispaces.com/TEDxNYED+Reflections 13:59 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuven_Feuerstein 13:59 < kanzure> http://heli.stanford.edu/ 14:00 < kanzure> http://www.amazon.com/Building-Intelligent-Interactive-Tutors-ebook/dp/B002ZJSVKA 14:00 < kanzure> http://www.allbusiness.com/technology/computer-software-programming/1102684-1.html) 14:00 < kanzure> mind machine project http://openmind.media.mit.edu/ 14:00 < kanzure> http://mcgovern.mit.edu/principal-investigators/tomaso-poggio 14:00 < kanzure> HTM-based ai vision http://www.binatix.com/people.html 14:01 < kanzure> http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/2208722/SU_Week_2_Wordle 14:01 < eridu> so many links 14:01 < kanzure> https://sites.google.com/a/singularityu.org/pads/home/week2/pads.html?attredirects=0&d=1 14:01 < kanzure> http://picasaweb.google.com/singularityu/TechShop# 14:01 < kanzure> http://su-etherpad.com/Jul3-Techshop 14:01 < kanzure> "NOTE: You should already be a member and Owner of the Google Group for your team project." 14:01 < kanzure> hmm 14:02 < kanzure> http://www.spoonflower.com 14:02 < kanzure> http://www.pond5.com/video-sound-effects-music/1/nasa-ames-hangar-one.html 14:02 < kanzure> http://www.burdastyle.com/ http://www.etsy.com/ http://www.freddyandma.com/ 14:02 < kanzure> http://www.tedprize.org/category/jill-tarter/page/2/ 14:02 < kanzure> http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/feb2007/id20070201_774736.htm 14:02 < kanzure> http://www.amazon.com/Three-Moves-Ahead-Business-ebook/dp/B001AV9G4E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=books&qid=1277925255&sr=8-1 14:03 < kanzure> http://www.collaborativeconsumption.com/ 14:03 < kanzure> http://www.allourideas.org/gsp10fee29jun 14:03 < kanzure> http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/home/2008/hangar_index.html 14:03 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florists'_Transworld_Delivery 14:03 < kanzure> http://farmstogo.com/ http://proflowers.com/ 14:04 < kanzure> http://www.elance.com http://www.guru.com http://www.odesk.com http://www.getafreelancer.com http://www.rentacoder.com http://www.quirky.com 14:04 < kanzure> http://amzn.to/9lIBnA 14:04 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Schumpeter 14:06 < kanzure> http://www.thedaemon.com/ 14:06 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:06 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooming_user_interface 14:06 < kanzure> http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/PVB/Harrison/SchrodCat/SchrodCat.html 14:06 < kanzure> http://www.thefind.com/garden/info-fire-starter-lighter-cubes 14:06 < kanzure> http://www.accessnow.org/ 14:07 < kanzure> http://www.templetons.com/slides/singu-security-priv.ppt 14:07 < kanzure> http://ideas.4brad.com/rename-data-portability-bepsi 14:07 < kanzure> BEPSI: Bulk Export of Personal and Sensitive Information. 14:08 < kanzure> http://mustbeaponyinthere.com/ 14:08 < kanzure> http://www.allourideas.org/gsp10ncscl3 14:10 < pmetzger> are we to read all those URLs? 14:10 < pmetzger> :) 14:13 < pmetzger> (more seriously, why all the URLs?) 14:16 < bdesk> because http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/044/778/original/hatersgonnacat.jpg 14:16 < cluckj> awesome 14:17 < cluckj> Mac: DIYBio was founded in 2002. <-- what? 14:18 < cluckj> I thought it was 2008 14:19 < streety> that's when the domain was registered 14:20 < cluckj> ah 14:21 < cluckj> I really need to get my history of diy bio straight... 14:21 < cluckj> sigh 14:22 < streety> I mean the domain was registered in 2008 14:22 < cluckj> Created On:04-Apr-2008 16:44:44 UTC 14:24 < streety> do we know what all the links are about yet? 14:27 < pmetzger> my three theories are: 1) kanzure is using the irc log to save data he's looking up. 2) kanzure accidentally pasted a large buffer in to irc. 3) kanzure really likes posting links a lot. :) 14:30 < streety> while 3 is certainly true I suspect some other factor is involved 14:37 < kanzure> they are the links from the singularityu.org gsp10 session 14:37 < kanzure> s/session/sessions/ 14:38 < kanzure> *cough* http://singularityu.org/gsp10pads/ 14:38 < kanzure> https://groups.google.com/a/singularityu.org/group/energy 14:38 < kanzure> "You cannot view this group's content because you are not currently a member. Anyone from singularityu.org can join. 14:38 < kanzure> hrm 14:50 < kanzure> "An average half-kilometer S-type asteroid is worth more than $20 trillion." http://bit.ly/9Yh0Nl 14:50 < kanzure> erm.. 14:53 < QuantumG> sometimes you can came up with incredibly large numbers for net-present-value of asteroids 14:55 < QuantumG> here's a more accurate assessment: http://quantumg.net/asteroid-npv.jpg 14:57 < QuantumG> it even takes into account the time-value of money 15:00 < streety> but doesn't appear to include any term for the value of the materials returned 15:01 < streety> unless I've missed it 15:06 < fenn> this is hilarious, NEEDS MORE GRAPHS http://viewhernude.com/ 15:07 < fenn> too bad it doesn't actually work tho 15:08 < pmetzger> it looks like a trap to get you to solve captchas for them. 15:08 < pmetzger> so they can break into accounts and spam with them. 15:08 < pmetzger> there are a bunch of such scams around, things that offer or actually provided a little "Free" porn in exchange for people solving captchas. 15:09 < pmetzger> what the user doesn't realize is that they're being used as a mechanical turk. 15:10 < QuantumG> streety: NPV tells you how much you have to be able to sell the recovered material for to make a profit. 15:12 -!- klafka [~klafka@129.21.68.219] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:13 < streety> That would make sense then 15:13 -!- shepazutoo [~schepers@adsl-69-180-215.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14 -!- shepazu [~schepers@adsl-69-180-215.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:17 < kanzure> pmetzger: it's easier to just pay for http://decaptcher.com/ 15:19 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:19 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Changing host] 15:19 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:20 < pmetzger> it is pretty easy to set up mechanical turk systems. 15:22 -!- klafka [~klafka@129.21.68.219] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:32 < QuantumG> probably better quality than relying on people trying to solve them with one hand too 15:39 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:50 -!- klafka [~klafka@129.21.68.219] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:55 < fenn> QuantumG: i propose your asteroid mining cost forumla is total bullshit, because it assumes all the mining equiment is being built on earth and launched wholesale 15:56 < QuantumG> it's not "mine" .. it's from the literature. http://www.transport.caltech.edu/~shane/papers/ross-asteroid-mining-2001.pdf 15:57 < fenn> well, you'd think they would have learned something between 1973 and 2001 15:58 < QuantumG> learned what exactly? 16:03 < QuantumG> the business model is: launch mining equipment to an asteroid, process materials on-site to make both valuable product and propellant for the return journey, bring it back to Earth and sell to any market that will buy. That formula tells you how much you need to be able to sell for to turn a profit given a long list of variables, and informs you which variables are probably the best to optimize. 16:07 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:08 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:11 -!- bdesk [~argriffi@unaffiliated/bdesk] has left #hplusroadmap [] 16:22 < kanzure> i just posted a proposal to do a bioethics.gov write-in for the diybio community 16:22 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/7dad27a5b3810f84 16:23 < cluckj> kanzure awesome 16:23 < cluckj> make that happen :) 16:25 < cluckj> I think jason bobe is thinking about that kind of stuff as of late 16:29 < kanzure> it kind of occurred to me like a wet brick hits smooth pavement 16:29 < kanzure> uh, wait 16:29 < kanzure> well anyway, what i mean to say that there's actually a high probability of getting a message communicated 16:29 < cluckj> haha what 16:29 < cluckj> ok 16:29 < cluckj> that metaphor is abberant as hell 16:29 < kanzure> :( 16:29 < kanzure> don't phage me bro 16:29 < cluckj> haters gonna hate, b 16:29 < fenn> i support you in your metaphorasis 16:30 < kanzure> spelling? 16:30 < cluckj> pun 16:30 < cluckj> (even worse) 16:30 < cluckj> :) 16:30 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has quit [Quit: mheld] 16:30 < cluckj> nice one too fenn 16:31 < fenn> um, please educate me on my subconscious pun 16:31 < cluckj> if I have to explain it, it's not going to be funny 16:32 * fenn snorts a line of orange magic shell 16:32 < fenn> whatever man 16:32 < cluckj> yep 16:33 < cluckj> kanzure getting something said there from the "DIY Bio community" would be a big publicity boost 16:33 < cluckj> I can't tell if it would be good or bad, though 16:34 < cluckj> probably good 16:35 < kanzure> what i was surprised at was how hungry the committee was for suggestions by craig and george 16:35 < cluckj> haah 16:35 < kanzure> they were almost begging them for "please tell us what we should say to the president" 16:36 < kanzure> they kinda gave them what they wanted, but it wasn't entirely planned out i think 16:36 < kanzure> i mean, they didn't come prepared to give them "here's your turn-key kit" 16:36 < cluckj> is there a video of the proceedings today? 16:36 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:36 < cluckj> haha 16:36 < kanzure> cluckj: there were streams, and apparently they are putting the videos up 16:36 < kanzure> check the diybio thread 16:36 < kanzure> josh posted a link 16:36 < cluckj> awesome 16:36 < cluckj> thanks 16:36 < cluckj> I was at work all day and missed it 16:37 < kanzure> i also did transcripts 16:37 < kanzure> the transcriber they had on site was absolutely terrible 16:37 < kanzure> missing entire sentences, words, typing "sin bioh", .. 16:37 < cluckj> lol 16:37 < kanzure> it was like watching an (unintentional) Big Brother filter over the ideas and statements 16:38 < kanzure> cluckj: it would be helpful if you would write a reply to my email on the bioethics.gov write-in 16:38 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/7dad27a5b3810f84 16:38 < cluckj> eehhh 16:39 < cluckj> I really want to 16:39 < kanzure> even just a generic "i support this and wish to subscribe to your newsletter" thing 16:39 < cluckj> ok 16:39 < cluckj> I'm uncomfortable with being a part of making the content of the statement 16:40 < kanzure> that's fine 16:43 < cluckj> just that line between anthropologist and "subjects of study" that I'm already dancing on 16:44 < fenn> so you're really here as an anthropologist? i thought that was a joke 16:44 < kanzure> QUICK! HIDE! we're being *studied* 16:45 < fenn> aaaagh the light it burns 16:45 < kanzure> no no i said /hide/ 16:45 < kanzure> (not in broad daylight) 16:46 < fenn> the pure light of scientific inquisition 16:46 * cluckj takes note of this 16:47 < kanzure> oh please 16:47 * cluckj decides they're all weirdos 16:47 < kanzure> well yeah 16:47 * cluckj writes a paper about it 16:47 < kanzure> i've never seen venter or church live / in a video 16:47 < cluckj> fenn yep 16:47 < pmetzger> you didn't watch the ted talk by venter? 16:47 < pmetzger> actually there were two... 16:48 < kanzure> pmetzger: no :( 16:48 < cluckj> fenn I'm in a weird situation -- if I weren't studying diy bio, I'd be doing it 16:48 < pmetzger> and there was the video announcement of his synthetic genome + cell a while ago. 16:48 < kanzure> (it wasn't a conscious decision to not watch the TED talk) 16:48 < cluckj> so I've gotta resist the urge to jump in feet first sometimes 16:48 < kanzure> cluckj: maybe you could do it for transhumanism, then :) 16:48 < pmetzger> they're not going to tell you much you don't know already... 16:48 < fenn> cluckj: that's the most contrived excuse for not doing anything i've ever heard :P 16:48 < pmetzger> assuming you've read the papers. 16:48 < pmetzger> the papers are pretty readable. 16:48 < kanzure> yes 16:49 < JayDugger> Big Brother filter? John Walker has a Greasemonkey script for that. 16:49 < JayDugger> http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/greasemonkey/#RedMeat 16:52 < pmetzger> ah, john walker. 16:52 < pmetzger> there's a guy to admire. except for the weird psychic phenomena beliefs that is. 16:53 < cluckj> kanzure the guy I was with at h+ is doing it for transhumanism :P 16:53 < cluckj> fenn oh I'm doing enough :) 16:54 < cluckj> trying to be subtle, though 16:54 < cluckj> geez, is william heath in here? 16:55 < kanzure> he used to be 16:55 < kanzure> i would've kicked ban him a long time ago 16:55 < kanzure> except i don't have ops 16:55 < ENKI-][> pmetzger: are you the pmetzger who runs the skeptic blog? 16:56 < cluckj> hahaha, good 16:56 < cluckj> what a twerp :) 16:56 < kanzure> cluckj: you should read the logs - search for "xp_prg" - and that's an interesting anthropological exploration in-and-of-itself 16:57 < cluckj> hah 16:57 < cluckj> he just posted to your call for messages 16:57 < pmetzger> enki: no. 16:57 < ENKI-][> oh, ok. 17:04 < cluckj> kanzure I would say something about friendship, microbes, and DIY Bio 17:04 < kanzure> "let's be friends with the microbes" ? 17:05 < fenn> i've decided that william heath is slightly mentally retarded 17:05 < cluckj> sorta 17:05 < fenn> so i'll stop being mean to him 17:05 < cluckj> fenn, cosign on that 17:05 < cluckj> kanzure that paper I wrote talks about more of what I mean 17:05 < ENKI-][> "DIY Bio makes microbes your friends!" 17:05 < cluckj> haha 17:06 < ENKI-][> (so long as you don't screw up and make them kill you first) 17:06 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:06 < cluckj> "DIY Bio wants to be friends with your microbes" ;) ;) ;) 17:06 < ENKI-][> (it's actually more likely that they will remain dormant and just kind of divide incorrectly, though, so you shouldn't worry) 17:06 < cluckj> hahaha 17:06 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:07 < kanzure> hi nsh 17:07 < cluckj> don't say that! 17:07 < fenn> you've awakened the dread god, run for your lives! 17:08 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:08 -!- streety [~Jonathan@93.182.151.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08 < JayDugger> John Walker, psychic powers, eh? 17:08 < fenn> orange magic shell + coconut ice cream is probably the most addictive food i've ever eaten 17:09 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:09 < JayDugger> fenn: that sounds less appetizing than brussels sprouts. 17:10 < JayDugger> Doesn't Geortzel entertain a psychic powers hypothesis too? 17:11 < kanzure> psi 17:12 < JayDugger> psi, psychic, whatever--do I have the assignment right? The particular differences of label interest me about as much as fine points of Mormon heresies interest you. :) 17:13 < fenn> hmm. i love it when i'm about to leave any somebody says "take your camera for the riots." 17:14 < JayDugger> Sounds like a fun time--until the cops show up. 17:15 < fenn> yeah well i'm going to oakland on bart, apparently some cop shot someone on bart recently 17:15 < fenn> not a fun kind of riot 17:15 < JayDugger> No, probably not. 17:33 < mheld> anybody have any good bio-inspired AI videos/lectures/books that they'd recommend (other than henry markram's stuff) 17:33 < kanzure> pretty interesting how bioethics.gov was asking to start the next human genome project 17:36 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37 < cluckj> lol 17:37 < cluckj> what's the next one? 17:39 -!- jennifer [~jennifer@c-76-103-252-106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:39 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:43 < kanzure> hi jennifer 17:43 < jennifer> hey 17:43 < kanzure> what brings you hear today? :) 17:43 < kanzure> hm 17:43 < kanzure> *here 17:44 < jennifer> do you know what happened to brian bishop's biohacking toolkit ? I was trying to GIT it at http://heybryan.org/biotech.git 17:44 < kanzure> i'm bryan. 17:45 < kanzure> basically my website is under extreme load all the time because i can't afford big enough pipes 17:45 < jennifer> oh *blushes and waves shyly* nice to meet you 17:45 < kanzure> second, biotech.git was just a lot of files poorly organized :P 17:46 < kanzure> there have been some projects that have usurped it 17:46 < jennifer> oh I see. 17:46 < jennifer> like the openwetware I assume? 17:47 < kanzure> well, for documents, yes 17:47 < kanzure> but also some more software-oriented projects to organize the information 17:47 < cluckj> Great idea -- I think that making DIY Bio known to them would be of great benefit to the community, and to the public at large. I agree that it doesn't have to be a sort of "mission statement" or anything like that, just something that says that people in the DIY Bio community are interested in, and want to take part in, the discussions and deliberations being made during the bioethics committee meeting. 17:47 < cluckj> Jon 17:47 < kanzure> there was a talk i gave in 2009 on 'skdb' for instance 17:47 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/ has the videos 17:47 < cluckj> how's that sound? 17:47 < kanzure> it's sort of a way to functionally encode the knowledge 17:48 < jennifer> i was just listening to it on youtube actually :-) 17:48 < kanzure> cluckj: yes that's fantastic 17:48 < cluckj> cool 17:48 < kanzure> jennifer: oh cool :) what about the 2010 talks from last month on DIY transhuman tech? i don't know if that's in your range of interests or not 17:48 < cluckj> sent 17:48 < jennifer> or actually the hplus summit 2010 speech on youtube 17:49 < kanzure> aha. the links on gnusha.org is another talk, on how to use principles from linux (in particular, the debian project) as it applies to open source hardware and DIY projects 17:49 < kanzure> i kind of did them backwards (more technical talk first then the hplus summit talk) 17:49 < kanzure> cluckj: thank you :) 17:49 < cluckj> yup, no problem 17:50 < jennifer> oh ok 17:52 < pmetzger> moo 17:52 < kanzure> oink' 17:52 < pmetzger> diy farm noises! 17:53 < jennifer> I heard a little about diy biohacking a couple years ago on the web, but suddenly got more curious today (I'm a noob) 17:53 < kanzure> well, if you're interested in /news/ about it, i collect a list here: 17:53 < kanzure> http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F 17:54 < kanzure> and if you're interested in techniques, that's largely something that still occurs by people talking with each other :) 17:54 < kanzure> (and pass links to various obscure documents back and forth) 17:55 < cluckj> you've gotta know the secret handshake, though 17:56 < jennifer> hehe oh I bet 17:57 < jennifer> so whats a good place to go for someone just getting started 17:57 < kanzure> probably in here. 17:57 < kanzure> but also http://groups.google.com/group/diybio 17:57 < cluckj> in here or a local diy bio meetup 17:58 < kanzure> yeah, what general continent are you on? 17:58 < kanzure> canada? that's a continent these days, right? 17:58 < kanzure> there's a diybio-vancouver group 17:58 < kanzure> but its "glorious leader" (so to speak) is currently at singularity university for the summer 17:59 < jennifer> I'm in the san francisco bay area in california 17:59 < kanzure> oh, there's tons of groups in your area 18:00 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio-sf 18:00 < kanzure> also http://biocurious.org/ 18:00 < jennifer> I heard something about a bio hackerspace thats trying to get funding to get setup in the southbay I believe 18:00 < kanzure> biocurious.org is it 18:00 < jennifer> ahhh ok, thanks 18:03 < cluckj> http://opensciencesummit.com/ 18:04 < kanzure> http://singularityu.org/ 18:07 < cluckj> oh good joe took my suggestion 18:07 < kanzure> which one was that? 18:07 < cluckj> pay-what-you-can 18:07 < cluckj> for students 18:07 < kanzure> fakerspace: corporate start-up masquerading as a community hackerspace 18:07 < cluckj> haha 18:08 < cluckj> you think so? 18:08 < jennifer> hehe 18:09 < kanzure> joe convinced me that none of the bad entanglements are in biocurious as with his previous commercial ventures 18:09 < kanzure> but still.. i don't know. 18:09 < cluckj> heh 18:09 < kanzure> social "crap" seems to follow joe 18:09 < kanzure> or joe seems to follow it 18:09 < kanzure> i'm not sure which 18:10 < kanzure> i mean, he doesn't bring it with him 18:10 < kanzure> but it certainly "follows" him regardless 18:10 < cluckj> a sort of crap-magnet? 18:10 < kanzure> dunno. i think he finds it. 18:10 < cluckj> hee 18:10 < cluckj> hehe 18:11 < cluckj> are there other people in a position of power in biocurious to temper whatever crap might show up? 18:11 < kanzure> no.. eri seems pretty corporate 18:12 < cluckj> hrm 18:12 < kanzure> joe has a tendency to be very thorough with his work, but i dunno if he can convince people about it :) 18:12 < cluckj> he took the crap first-impression I got of him and convinced me otherwise 18:13 < cluckj> so I'll give him that, at least 18:13 < kanzure> yeah, he's a good guy for sure 18:14 < kanzure> he used to hang out in here 18:14 < kanzure> or at least he did once or twice 18:17 < cluckj> hm 18:17 < kanzure> so, cha0s chewed through the optical mouse cabling 18:18 < kanzure> and i tried to get the mouse to start working again by playing around with the bite mark 18:18 < kanzure> as soon as the optical mouse turns back on, the entire system crashes 18:18 < cluckj> haha 18:18 < cluckj> living up to his name, isn't he 18:18 < kanzure> named after the forces of chaos for a reason :) 18:20 < JayDugger> chaos the cat? 18:21 < kanzure> yes 18:21 < JayDugger> Ah. 18:21 < kanzure> i'm not really concerned about the behavior 18:21 < kanzure> what's more alarming is how the computer just crashed 18:21 < kanzure> leave it to a cat to find the most inventive ways to crash linux: by chewing through the mouse cabling? wtf 18:23 < cluckj> file a bug report 18:24 < jennifer> hehe, needs kevlar coating 18:28 < JayDugger> needs a beating. 18:28 < JayDugger> Too late unless you catch it the act. 18:29 < JayDugger> One of my cats used to sleep atop the set-top box, and another slept on a laptop. 18:29 < JayDugger> They got quite good at not getting caught in the act. 18:29 < jennifer> spray the cables with "bitterapple" (i had a rabbit that would snip my cables too once) 18:30 < JayDugger> Good idea. Does that work well? 18:31 < jennifer> seemed to, he took a taste, and made a face at me, and didn't try it again 18:45 * kanzure reads http://bioethics.gov/documents/Letter-from-President-Obama-05.20.10.pdf 18:56 < kanzure> "My team has discovered the majority of genes known to science." 18:56 < kanzure> it's probably true. 18:58 < jennifer> known to science.... 18:58 < jennifer> lol 18:58 < jennifer> oi politicians 18:58 < kanzure> that was venter :) 18:59 < cluckj> venter is an asshole :D 18:59 < kanzure> an asshole with deep pockets not totally screwing things up 18:59 < cluckj> don't forget super famous 19:00 < ENKI-][> super-fame probably doesn't help as much as the garden variety fame 19:01 < kanzure> i wonder how much of a chance venter has of becoming super-ridiculously-famous enough to i.e. reach public figure fame 19:02 < JayDugger> I don't understand. Please give an example of "public figure fame." 19:03 < kanzure> "little kids being indoctrinated into Einstein worship heroism at a young age" 19:03 < kanzure> that sorta fame 19:03 < kanzure> or other popular science figures 19:03 < JayDugger> Einstein, Sagan, who else? 19:03 < kanzure> sagan isn't hardly as popular as hawking :( 19:03 < jennifer> edison - don't look at tesla 19:03 < kanzure> although sagan had a good run when he was alive, i think 19:03 < JayDugger> Depends on your age group. 19:03 < kanzure> yeah, nobody cares about tesla :( 19:03 < kanzure> JayDugger: agreed. sagan is very age group dependent 19:03 < kanzure> or if you're retarded like i am, you happen to know about him 19:04 < kanzure> einstein, sagan, feynman, hawking, edison 19:04 < kanzure> although edison was more of an inventor :) 19:04 < JayDugger> I wrote him (Sagan) a fan letter as a 3rd grader. 19:04 < kanzure> cute. 19:04 < cluckj> watson... 19:04 < kanzure> that racist mofo? 19:04 < JayDugger> Watson doesn't get fan letters. 19:04 < kanzure> :P 19:04 < cluckj> also a super-famous asshole 19:04 < kanzure> i don't think people worship watson 19:05 < JayDugger> If Venter & Exxon get cheap synthetic fossil fuels as a result of their join work, then Venter will probably become as famous as "einstein, sagan, feynman, hawking, edison." 19:06 < JayDugger> Feel free to disagree. We can work up a bet and take it to a prediction market. 19:06 < kanzure> huh george whitesides looks entirely unlike i expected him to http://www.rsc.org/images/FEATURE-enzymes-250_tcm18-92694.jpg 19:06 < JayDugger> You look shorter on-line than in real-life. :) 19:07 < kanzure> compare to george church: http://www.rechargenews.com/multimedia/archive/00031/George_Church__LS9_c_31737a.jpg 19:07 < kanzure> who looks deceptively similar to http://www.straferight.com/photopost/data/500/richard-stallman.jpg 19:08 < kanzure> and venter: http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2008/01/venter_genome_630px.jpg 19:08 < kanzure> hrm. 19:09 < cluckj> everybody knows who watson is 19:09 < JayDugger> glc-player (http://www.glc-player.net/) GLC_Player is an Open Source software used to view 3d models 19:09 < JayDugger> (COLLADA 3DXML OBJ 3DS STL OFF COFF Format) and to navigate 19:09 < JayDugger> easily in these models. 19:09 < kanzure> everyone knows who watson is, but i don't know if they care enough or not 19:10 < JayDugger> Sample bias, much? 19:10 < kanzure> dunno 19:10 < cluckj> maybe, maybe not 19:10 < kanzure> i typed in "max more" and got back this: http://www.natasha.cc/images/Natasha,Max,Shatner.jpg presumably everyone knows the guy on the right 19:11 < JayDugger> I bet most Anglophone people would imagine John Watson, M.D. if prompted with the surname and no other context. 19:11 < JayDugger> Wow. N.V.M. has long fingers. 19:12 < cluckj> I dunno about that 19:12 < kanzure> natasha's hands are super tiny 19:12 < JayDugger> They don't look it in the image. 19:13 < JayDugger> I've not met her in person, so my impressions have a flaw. 19:13 < kanzure> i can't believe i'm debating the size of natasha's hands on irc at 9 at night 19:13 < cluckj> iirc she was pretty small 19:13 < JayDugger> Yeah, $0.02 for the OT jar. 19:13 < kanzure> no, i brought this stuff up 19:13 < kanzure> but i should be doing something more interesting 19:13 < cluckj> haha 19:13 < kanzure> like killing babies or plotting world domination 19:13 < JayDugger> or coating cables with bitterapple flavor. 19:14 < kanzure> yes 19:14 < JayDugger> or reading Yudkowsky's H.P. fanfic. 19:14 < kanzure> ehh.. no 19:14 < kanzure> i read CEV the other day 19:14 < JayDugger> :) 19:14 < kanzure> i was very disappointed 19:14 < JayDugger> And here I thought you just hated H.P.. 19:14 < kanzure> nah, just eli :P 19:14 < kanzure> well, i don't hate him 19:14 < kanzure> just his ideas 19:15 < kanzure> cluckj: btw, i might have something juicy for you 19:15 * kanzure digs around 19:15 < JayDugger> You DO hate H.P., though, right? 19:15 < JayDugger> If not, I will have to pull my foot from my mouth. 19:17 < kanzure> cluckj: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/sl4.log 19:18 < kanzure> sl4.org used to have a #sl4 irc channel 19:20 < kanzure> oh cool, emil is in there. 19:22 < kanzure> I don't wish Ben Goertzel would get run over by a truck, but I wish he'd get a clue 19:22 < JayDugger> Kanzure, do you have an Epilog? 19:22 < kanzure> Oct 12 17:45 #sl4 is not logged 19:23 < kanzure> JayDugger: no, i have a ULS laser cutter 19:25 < cluckj> lol 19:26 < cluckj> when I hear evolutionary psychology I reach for my pistol 19:26 < kanzure> heh 19:26 < pmetzger> I guess EY writes HP fanfic when he's not busy creating the friendly AI which will whisk us all off to paradise. 19:27 < cluckj> kanzure should I be looking for something specific? 19:27 < kanzure> no, it's just logs from #sl4 19:27 < cluckj> oh 19:28 < pmetzger> does the sl4 mailing list still exist? 19:28 < kanzure> yes 19:28 < kanzure> but it's full of crap 19:28 < pmetzger> (is there an sl4 IRC channel at this point?) 19:28 < kanzure> nowhere near as interesting as it once might have been 19:28 < kanzure> nope, no more #sl4 19:29 < kanzure> but the last i saw it was in 2007 on irc.lucifer.com 19:29 < pmetzger> It was not interesting for the brief period when I looked at it. (The mailing list.) 19:29 < pmetzger> years and years ago. 19:29 < pmetzger> It was full of people speculating about the ethics of things they couldn't ever build. 19:29 < kanzure> pmetzger: did you ever see FakeEliezer? 19:29 < pmetzger> yes 19:30 < kanzure> had to ask. 19:31 < JayDugger> Good night, everybody. 19:31 < kanzure> night 19:31 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:38 < pmetzger> I was around the night you created that. 19:39 < cluckj> kanzure there's interesting singularity stuff in there 19:39 < cluckj> thanks 19:40 < kanzure> pmetzger: i created it? 19:40 < kanzure> i wish. 19:40 < kanzure> but, i don't know what i would post 19:41 < pmetzger> Well, the date someone created it. 19:41 < pmetzger> you pointed it out to me immediately it seemed. 19:41 < kanzure> yes 19:46 < cluckj> Oct 21 13:12 there is no forgiveness for blaspheming Google 19:46 < cluckj> Oct 21 13:12 go to Alta Vista! 19:46 < cluckj> bwahahahahaha 19:48 < kanzure> anyone remember how to enable keyboard-based mouse navigation via the keyboard in kde3.5? 19:50 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.188.78] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:51 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@75-147-59-54-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:05 < kanzure> got it 20:07 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.188.78] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:08 < kanzure> national institute of aging http://www.nia.nih.gov/http://www.nia.nih.gov/ 20:08 < kanzure> er 20:08 < kanzure> http://www.nia.nih.gov/ 20:09 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@69.86.203.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.188.78] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:10 < kanzure> "TechShop - for molecules and matter what Kinko's does for data." 20:14 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.188.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:15 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.188.78] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:17 < kanzure> http://www.markusschmidt.eu/publications.html 20:20 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.188.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:20 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@75-147-59-54-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:23 < kanzure> i should just make a voice-to-mouse program 20:24 < kanzure> maybe i can control my mouse by whistling 20:28 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 20:35 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.188.78] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:40 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.188.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:41 -!- Noahj [~noah@24.38.188.78] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:43 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:57 < kanzure> hrm 20:57 < kanzure> "These companies pay a licensing fee in exchange for support for these products in the Arduino software and documentation. " 20:57 < kanzure> "These are the products that we feel provide the best overall experience and utility to the Arduino community. They include boards from three manufacturers: SmartProjects (in Italy), SparkFun, and Gravitech (both in the US). These companies pay a licensing fee in exchange for support for these products in the Arduino software and documentation." 20:58 < kanzure> a licensing fee? in exchange for support? 20:58 < kanzure> why not just charge them for support 21:11 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt updated at the bottom with singularityu people 21:12 < kanzure> i think i have most of the gsp10 students.. not sure about all of the spakers though 21:12 < kanzure> *speakers 21:13 < kanzure> oh fooey, i have a duplicate jonathan cluck on there 21:14 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:35 -!- nsh [~nsh@druim.force9.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:04 -!- splicer [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16 -!- jennifer [~jennifer@c-76-103-252-106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:18 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-80-209.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Quit: uniqanomaly_] 23:19 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-80-209.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:23 -!- genehacker_ [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-110-194.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap --- Log closed Fri Jul 09 00:00:17 2010