--- Log opened Wed Jul 21 00:00:13 2010
--- Day changed Wed Jul 21 2010
00:00 < fenn> how about giulio prisco :P
00:01 < kanzure> giulio is super nice but he just masturbates in second life all day long
00:01 < kanzure> "Experienced transhumanists will recognize mad monks Aubrey de Gray at left and Todd Huffman at right. By the way, Huffman has at least one magnet implanted in one of his fingertips. Three out of three women I polled found that hot."
00:02 < kanzure> ^just something i found trying to answer splicer's question
00:02 < kanzure> "it's a chick magnet" ha ha ha
00:02 < fenn> does it vibrate?
00:02 < kanzure> you have to manually move the finger
00:03 < kanzure> but yes
00:03 < kanzure> couldn't you make it vibrate in the presence of an electric field?
00:03 < kanzure> isn't that the whole point?
00:03  * fenn mumbles something about magnetic piercings
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00:04 < fenn> impossible to google for of course
00:04 < kanzure> so anyway
00:04 < Splicer> fenn: where did you find that link to the french hackerspace?
00:04 < kanzure> i don't know if aubrey calls himself a transhumanist
00:04 < kanzure> he certainly doesn't distance himself from it
00:05 < fenn> i read it in here
00:05 < kanzure> Splicer: i found it
00:05 < kanzure> while obsessively compulsively scowering the web for "biohacking"
00:05 < fenn> nick bostrom positions himself as a "transhumanist philosopher"
00:05 < kanzure> obsessive-compulsively
00:05 < kanzure> nick is full of himself
00:05 < kanzure> and none of his works have ever seemed that interesting to me
00:06 < Splicer> kanzure: ah, thanks... I'm impressed with the links that show up here sometimes
00:06 < kanzure> so what, you wrote a paper about the ethics of killing a few quadrillion people that don't yet exist..
00:06 < kanzure> Splicer: :)
00:07 < fenn> david pierce (pearce?) writes about similar subjects
00:07 < kanzure> pearce
00:07 < kanzure> and i think david is better at it, definitely
00:07 < kanzure> although i don't know what his status is perceived as? nick is perceived as an academic
00:09 < fenn> huh, brian wang is 44 years old? he doesn't seem that old
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00:10 < kanzure> who now?
00:10 < fenn> woah @ google images
00:11 < fenn> super fast now
00:11 < kanzure> what, the google image swirl?[1;2B[1;2B[1;2B[1;2B
00:11 < kanzure> http://image-swirl.googlelabs.com/
00:12 < kanzure> fenn: so step.py is coming along (slwoly) but it will be usable in good time
00:12 < kanzure> one of the things that i haven't thought about is evaluated AD stuff with it
00:12 < kanzure> gah
00:12 < kanzure> *CAD
00:12 < kanzure> *AD
00:12 < kanzure> was wondering if you have any tricks up your sleeve for that.. like how to properly evaluate intersections and unions
00:13 < kanzure> i guess i'll just have to bite my teeth and write some code to check for intersecting surfaces, edges/wires/loops, and vertices
00:13 < kanzure> right?
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00:17 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/google_images.png http://fennetic.net/irc/google_images_2.png  when you load the first page it just keeps scrolling down for about 20 pages, loading new images on the fly
00:17 < kanzure> autoscroll has been around for a while as greasemonkey scripts and firefox extensions (well and for any other browser)
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00:24 < Utopiah> GM mouseless-autoscroll http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/25207
00:32 < fenn> omg, poor babies, where are the psycho bombers when you need them http://www.bellybuds.com/
00:37 < fenn> http://hackedgadgets.com/2006/06/01/new-glasses-require-piercing-bridge-of-nose/
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00:50 < fenn> what a weird game http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=19185&f=6&view=unread
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00:56 < fenn> somebody read this and send me the diffs http://www.maxbarry.com/machineman/
01:06 < fenn> "not patented ideas" http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/eng/catalog/encs/
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01:33 < fenn> "What my body needed to realize was that I wasn't taking orders from organs. My biology existed in order to serve me, not the other way around. These self-interested clumps of flesh and fluid, they had better get with the program, because if it came down to them or me, it was going to be me."
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01:37 < Splicer> the author thinks there is a "me", cute
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06:10 < kanzure> "On June 22, 2010, the Belgium-based computational chemistry company Silicos NV has made a 
06:10 < kanzure> strategic decision to port the majority of its proprietary software into the open source arena. The "
06:10 < kanzure> "decision has been made to port all of these tools and the corresponding C/C++ API's into the Open 
06:10 < kanzure> Babel environment under a GNU GPL licensing scheme."
06:11 < kanzure> "Cosmos(TM) is Silicos' patented technology for the design of novel molecules using an  evolutionary algorithm and using user-specified scoring functions. The tool has been adapted to  be used in a fragment-based discovery enviroment."
06:11 < kanzure> http://www.silicos.com/
06:12 < Utopiah> nice
06:12 < kanzure> uh oh "patented technology"
06:12 < kanzure> "Piramid is Silicos' software tool incorporating a shape-based alignment between pairs of molecules. Again, the resulting match is quantified using different measures including a Tanimoto coefficient."
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06:20 < kanzure> fenn: do you remember when you were last arguing about DTDs with someone in here?
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07:01 < kanzure> someone was asking about skdb and the file formats on OM so i wrote a long email
07:01 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_frm/thread/aabee0e1cc28891f
07:08 < drazak> is work on skdb still continuing?
07:11 < kanzure> i'm still working on relevant code for it but i've been hesitant to commit because (1) the code isn't working right now and (2) skdb.git is a sprawling mess
07:12 < kanzure> there's also been interesting antics that have gone uncommitted for various reasons.. like the thingiverse dataset that was converted to skdb-like packages:
07:12 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/thingiverse/thingiverse_packages/
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07:44 < kanzure> http://principialabs.com/arduino-python-4-axis-servo-control/ "This tutorial will describe how to use Arduino to control a bank of four independent RC servos with your PC (or Mac, or *nix Box), using a USB cable and a modular Arduino-Python software stack."
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08:11 < kanzure> http://goertzel.org/CosmistManifesto_July2010.pdf
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08:22 < kanzure> http://transhumanistwiki.com/ http://transhumanistforums.com/old/ http://www.hpluscafe.com/forum http://fora.humanityplus.org/
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11:07 < kanzure> more on the silicos stuff: http://baoilleach.blogspot.com/2010/07/silicos-to-donate-code-to-open-babel.html
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12:03 < kanzure> http://openspace.wikia.com/wiki/Open_Source_Aerospace_Wiki
12:03 < kanzure> QuantumG: do you happen to know if anything is actually on that wiki?
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13:49 < kanzure> someone should make sure i fill this out relatively soon
13:49 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cadfaq/
13:50 < kanzure> hm i wonder why the recent changes haven't been committed
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14:02 < niftyzero1> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/20/the-lifeboat-foundation-battling-asteroids-nanobots-and-a-i/
14:03 < kanzure> niftyzero1: have you heard about the lifeboat folks before?
14:03 < niftyzero1> I'm on the board of advisors... :)
14:03 < kanzure> a few of us in here are
14:03 < kanzure> i don't know what the point is, though
14:03 < kanzure> does the board do anything?
14:03 < niftyzero1> there's 1000 people on it, so it's not a big deal ;)
14:03 < kanzure> yeah..
14:04 < niftyzero1> I think board member == mailing list member
14:04 < kanzure> oh there's a mailing list
14:04 < kanzure> so they just send emails around?
14:04 < niftyzero1> you are not on it?
14:04 < kanzure> i was offered but i just looked at it questionably
14:04 < kanzure> i mean.. um.
14:05 < niftyzero1> yeah, it looks a bit strange... 
14:05 < kanzure> so do they do anything?
14:05 < niftyzero1> but there are some good people on there
14:05 < niftyzero1> it's just talk at this stage, as far as I can tell
14:10 < niftyzero1> heh http://community.nytimes.com/comments/bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/20/the-lifeboat-foundation-battling-asteroids-nanobots-and-a-i/?permid=6#comment6
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14:32 < kanzure> someone was trying to convince me yesterday to make something called "the bio safety foundation"
14:32 < kanzure> his argument was that it would license amateur biologists (for some reason)
14:32 < kanzure> but all it would do is just media and marketing and make people happy that someone is using the word "safety"
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15:27 < kanzure> "from biohacking to bioart" http://groups.google.com/group/hackerspacesg/browse_thread/thread/b337e93d99a78c41
15:27 < kanzure> artificial cell markers / immune system stuff in biohacking http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/48646-artificial-cell-markers/
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15:30 < splicer> I have a feeling BP is starting to take off in Sci-Fi... having mixed emotions about that.
15:32 < kanzure> "is starting to take off in Sci-Fi" <-- what? translation error?
15:32 < kanzure> do you mean they are writing science fiction novels, or that they have scifi consultants, or what?
15:32 < splicer> no.. stories
15:33 < splicer> ah... BP as in Biopunk
15:33 < splicer> my bad
15:34 < kanzure> ohh
15:34 < kanzure> :) there's many millions of science researchers that do all sorts of crazy complex things
15:35 < kanzure> for a lot of them it's not scifi
15:36 < splicer> the sci fi community is a juggernaut though... they produce a lot of text.
15:37 < kanzure> cool the openmoto-x guy (paul) is on OM now
15:38 < kanzure> yes and a lot of the text isn't all that scientifically accurate :P
15:42 < jrayhawk> re: not committing: damnit
15:44 < jrayhawk> wait, what's not commiting where?
15:44 < kanzure> i did "git clone http://diyhpl.us/wiki.git" and looked at the commit log
15:44 < jrayhawk> If it's a cgit thing, keep in mind cgit likes to cache pages and doesn't do a good job of invalidating them, so there can be a few minutes delay involved.
15:45 < kanzure> anyone ever hear of "S.M.U.T. - Subversive Manifesto for Underground Technology"?
15:45 < kanzure> http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=119964624706743&index=1
15:46 < jrayhawk> you should be using git://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki.git (for read) or git+ssh://diyhpl.us/srv/git/diyhpluswiki (for read/write)
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15:47 < jrayhawk> I guess just git://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki works
15:47 < kanzure> okay
15:48 < kanzure> i was just invited to talk at SMUT.. guess i'll haul over the robotic arm
15:49 < genehacker> SMUT?
15:49 < QuantumG> your real doll has a robotic arm?
15:50 < jrayhawk> That's odd; I don't really know why your symlink approach wouldn't work.
15:50 < kanzure> QuantumG: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/photos/puma560/2010-05-28_puma500.jpg
15:52 < QuantumG> neat.. have you gotten it to do anything?
15:53 < kanzure> it's a really amazing lamp right now
15:53 < QuantumG> heh
15:54 < genehacker> huh
15:55 < genehacker> so the NES used a microprocessor that had 4000 transistors and used only 4 kb of ram
15:55 < QuantumG> arguably the most popular microprocessor ever too
15:55 < genehacker> REALLY?
15:56 < QuantumG> the z80?  sure
15:56 < genehacker> you can really do that much with 4000 transistors and 4kb of ram?
15:56 < kanzure> if you're clever
15:57 < QuantumG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z80
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15:57 < genehacker> because I did some calculations and a fluidic microprocessor based on something like that probably wouldn't be terribly huge
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15:57 < QuantumG> heh, FPGA versions :)
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15:58 < genehacker> the only problem is making the memory
15:58 < kanzure> "hmm, you're like the perfect friend ot have" aww
15:59 < genehacker> and I'm not quite sure how to go about making bistable elements
15:59 < genehacker> which are probably important?
16:01 < kanzure> wouldn't you just make a fluidic flip-flop for the memory?
16:02 < genehacker> fluidic flip flops don't set-reset capability at low reynolds numbers
16:02 < kanzure> i was thinking of just having a few valves or something
16:03 < kanzure> or equivalent in your-control-system-of-choice
16:03 < genehacker> so how would you make a memory unit with valves?
16:05 < kanzure> how are you actuating the liquid?
16:05 < kanzure> and are you using droplets or not
16:05 < genehacker> I'm not sure yet
16:05 < genehacker> no droplets
16:05 < kanzure> ah
16:05 < kanzure> i think manu came up with some binary gates with droplet microfluidics
16:05 < kanzure> and if you got the logic gates you can do basic flip flops
16:05 < genehacker> maybe oil droplets for memory
16:06 < genehacker> as far as actuation goes gravity might be enough
16:06 < genehacker> microfluidic amplifiers can run off of millimeters of water
16:07 < genehacker> so just logic gates?
16:07 < kanzure> millimeters or did you mean milliliters
16:07 < genehacker> millimeters of water as in pressure
16:07 < kanzure> ah.
16:08 < kanzure> but yeah, a common first year design problem for chip designers is making a memory cache out of flip flops and logic gates
16:08 < kanzure> look up a flip-flop register
16:09 < genehacker> could one use delay line memory for something like that?
16:09 < kanzure> oh wow the google image results really suck
16:10 < genehacker> err... I guess that might get big
16:10 < kanzure> ok search for 4-bit shift register
16:10 < kanzure> http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/4/48/4-Bit_PISO_Shift_Register.png
16:11 < genehacker> I don't know how to make those set-rest flipflops
16:11 < genehacker> only flip flops with no set reset capability 
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16:14 < genehacker> it might be possible to make something like that using a droplet of oil to prevent flow and not prevent flow, only it's hard to get the droplet of oil in place
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16:16 < kanzure> hi patrickmclaren 
16:17 < kanzure> iirc you're the diybio-melbourne / life extension go-to guy?
16:18 < genehacker> almost forgot switching time is on the order of 2khz so it'd be pretty slow
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17:02 < patrickmclaren> kanzure: I don't know about the 'go-to guy' haha :)
17:02 < patrickmclaren>  but yes I am in Melbourne. Only recently discovered the diobio movement
17:03 < patrickmclaren> And am looking to get something together down here
17:03 < kanzure> have you been to CCHS yet?
17:08 < patrickmclaren> no I haven't yet.. I'm just checking that out now.
17:08 < patrickmclaren> is there much interest there?
17:09 < kanzure> i haven't explicitly asked them, but i have sent a few transhumanists their way :>
17:18 < patrickmclaren> hm I should see if I can make the meeting this weekend then
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18:22 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
18:23 < JayDugger> fenn: I dismissed your legitimate criticisms of the flat-pack SketchChair when last we spoke. <HALF-BAKED & IRRELEVANT EXCUSE REDACTED>. I apologize.
18:36 < kanzure> JayDugger: have you been using http://gnusha.org/logs/ for logs?
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19:21 < JayDugger> Could you make a similar tool for arbitrary, or at least a wider range, of sliceforms?
19:21 < JayDugger> Similar to this: http://blog.ponoko.com/2010/03/18/creating-laser-cut-3d-forms-super-easily/, but sans SketchUp or Blender.
19:23 < fenn> cool
19:24 < JayDugger> Anyhow, time to commute. Good night, everyone.
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19:24 < fenn> flightsofideas.com seems to have gone belly up
19:25 < kanzure> jaydugger wants the gnusha.org logs in the /topic :(
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19:25 < fenn> oh well, if reprap can do it, i'm sure there are other ways of slicing an stl
19:25 < kanzure> sigh
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19:25 < kanzure> when will freenode staffers get on this?
19:25 < kanzure> how many TPS reports do i need to file
19:25 < fenn> anyone can edit the topic
19:25 < kanzure> try it
19:26  * fenn shrugs
19:26 < fenn> you broke it!
19:26 < fenn> i was supposed to leave at 5
19:27  * fenn watches his life pass by, opportunities missed, votes lost
19:27 < fenn> gah
19:34 < kanzure> at least one of us made "progress" today (ok not really- it's probably all useless code)
19:35 < kanzure> but it's (almost) generating a sphere
19:35 < kanzure> just one or two last bugs to stomp
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21:38 < kanzure> hi BoyTito 
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22:50 < kanzure> this guy has some interesting publications
22:50 < kanzure> http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~charley/
22:50 < kanzure> http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~charley/publications.html
22:56 < QuantumG> nice
22:57 < jrayhawk> If you decide you hate Freenode, I hear good things about OFTC
22:57 < QuantumG> yeah you know me?
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23:22 < patrickmclaren> how long ago did http://www.agi-roadmap.org/ die off?
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23:23 < QuantumG> looks like about the time actually making a roadmap rather than just talking about it.
23:25 < patrickmclaren> Would you happen to know the best place to lend a hand with that?
23:26 < QuantumG> no sorry.  I got out of it a few years ago
23:26 < QuantumG> when it became apparent that OpenCog was never going anywhere
23:26 < QuantumG> you could try them.. but their progress has been held up by some personalities
23:27 < patrickmclaren> I see, I  was just about to check OpenCog out actually
23:27 < patrickmclaren> Major progress blocks?
23:27 < QuantumG> let us know if you find anything worthwhile in it.
23:28 < QuantumG> depends if you consider "getting something to work" a major block
23:29 < patrickmclaren> blockages everywhere it seems haha
23:30  * heath_ notes to self that 600mg of modafinil is too much
23:30 < QuantumG> I think SOAR is probably the most mature AGI available.
23:30 < QuantumG> heath_: what's the effect?
23:30 < patrickmclaren> Also, you wouldn't happen to know anything about SIAI's friendly ai project would you?
23:30 < QuantumG> never got further than paper I believe
23:32 < patrickmclaren> I see endless discussion of their theory of AI, and references to a development team, but again nothing on progress
23:32 < patrickmclaren> I'll have a look at SOAR
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23:34 < heath_> well... aside from the sore jaws from clenching my teeth all day... i also forget how easy it is to just keep talking and talking. i remember being on 600mg/day at some point and i learned to control that.. having not taken such a high dosage in awhile, it also kept me up all night... and well, i've been depressed all day
23:35 < heath_> but not due modafinil, as a matter of fact, it's kept me distracted enough to not do anything stupid
23:35 < QuantumG> heath_: isn't keeping you up all night what you want?
23:35 < heath_> no, i took to be mentally sharp for the interview
23:36 < heath_> i took 300mg @ 8:30am and 300mg 9:30am
23:36 < QuantumG> I mentioned it to some friends the other week and they were interested in giving it a go.. of course it's prescription here
23:36 < heath_> same here, but er.. not mine
23:37 < heath_> 200-300 should be good enough for them
23:37 < heath_> this person was prescribed 100mg/day
23:38 < QuantumG> any idea what the effect is at that level?  in regards to sleep?
23:39 < heath_> i had 200 the other day, no problem sleeping, but i of course didn't sleep much at all the night before. i didn't try to stay up either, i probably could have
23:39 < klafka> hey this is a goood place to ask, what does anyone recommend as a starting dose for piracteam
23:39 < heath_> immortality institute forums have covered this
23:39 < klafka> it would be nice if modafinil was a legal OTC thing
23:39 < heath_> i don't know
23:40 < heath_> usually i look for academic papers to find the typical dosage of this stuff
23:40 < QuantumG> see, it's not supposed to prevent you from sleeping.. it's supposed to aid you staying up, if that's your goal.
23:40 < QuantumG> I just haven't heard anyone say it works.
23:40 < heath_> oh, well, i can tell you from the past and well..from right now, it aids me in staying up :)
23:41 < heath_> but i previously didn't have a problem sleeping taking this, but er.. that was a huge blow to me.. so it's been on my mind...
23:41 < QuantumG> I'd like to try it, see if I can safely go a week without (much) sleep
23:41 < heath_> er...i wouldn't recommend it
23:41 < heath_> good for a day or two, but your body will catch up
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23:42 < QuantumG> ultimately I'd like a drug that eliminates the need for sleep completely.. but I'm not exactly optimistic that it exists.
23:42 < klafka> jesus boston seems to have a bio conference like every 2 weeks
23:42 < heath_> i would ease into it.. i took a 400mg dosage for the first time in a long time and stayed up a good 30 hours last week and regretted it the next few days
23:42 < klafka> QuantumG, that eliminates the need for sleep w/ no negative side effects
23:42 < klafka> eyeah i'm not optimistic about that for awhile
23:42 < QuantumG> indeed :)
23:43 < QuantumG> or at least tolerable side effects
23:43 < QuantumG> just not fatal ones
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23:43 < QuantumG> if there's a trade to be made, I'd like to know what it is.
23:44 < heath_> you get super powers with modafinil, no doubt. but be careful to not be the obnoxious guy on drugs.. ya know the guy who won't shut up
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23:44 < heath_> because you will process stuff much faster than those around you
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23:44 < QuantumG> I think I already am that guy.. ask half the people on this channel.
23:45 < heath_> hehe, this is different than irc :)
23:45 < heath_> can i has an h+ commune?
23:46 < heath_> or just $10k
23:46 < klafka> heath_,  a lot of times it is "you think you process stuff much faster than those around you"
23:47 < QuantumG> yeah, it's funny.. I wonder if this drug just does whatever you think it does :)
23:48 -!- patrickmclaren [~patrickmc@mail.redtribe.com.au] has quit [Quit: patrickmclaren]
23:48 < QuantumG> placebo amplification
23:48 < heath_> maybe, you do feel subjectively better, klafka. i'm going to attempt to rest, because i have a feeling staying up another night isn't going to land me this next job
23:49 < heath_> QuantumG: uh, no. it doesn't act like that. trust me. oh, and watch out for mild headaches if you take 600mg a few days in a row
23:50 < heath_> -"trust me"
23:50 < QuantumG> can't imagine I would.  I think I'd be taking some small dose until I first felt tired, then going off it until I was sleeping regularly again, then try an increased dosage
23:51 < QuantumG> and by "tired" I mean "feel I must go to sleep or I'll die"
23:52 < klafka> QuantumG, not so much placebo amplification but rather stimulants have a tendency to cause you to overestimate ones own abilities while on them
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23:56 < QuantumG> well there goes the theory that modafinil isn't a stimulant
--- Log closed Thu Jul 22 00:00:17 2010