--- Log opened Fri Jul 23 00:00:18 2010
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02:51 < fenn> wow i know the guy who invented the buddy list http://web.archive.bibalex.org/web/19991002023615/www.lig.net/sdw/fullresume.html
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08:04 < kanzure> "Electrowetting-based pico-liter liquid actuation in a glass-tube microinjector
08:10 < kanzure> hey why isn't there a torrent for "transcendent man" yet :/
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08:21 < uniqanomaly_> kanzure: 'cause it's about money, not enlightenment of humanity, and result is strict control over it, imho ;p
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08:36 < QuantumG> and that's probably the most sensible way to distribute a film like that if you need to recoup investment.
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08:54 < Ian_Daniher> We should FOSH these: http://www.kyoto-energy.com/products.html
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09:52 < kanzure> uniqanomaly_: actually i think that the reason why nobody is torrenting it is because the movie just flat out sucks and is net negative for transhumanism
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10:25 < splicer> phylomon.org,  a biodiversity pokemon trading card type of game
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11:00 < kanzure> splicer: that site links over to http://www.networkedorganisms.com/about an iphone app for spotting/geotagging wildlife
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11:19 < kanzure> some "share/rent" websites
11:19 < kanzure> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0In9NebAM8Y/S_AEOwaNhMI/AAAAAAAACto/bxnTEj3DGoM/s1600/SSSBlankZipPosterTent.png
11:19 < kanzure> http://manhattan.neighborrow.com/ http://neighborgoods.net/ http://www.sharesomesugar.com/ http://ou.rshelf.com/
11:26 < kanzure> the hplusmagazine.com article on skdb was pasted over here: http://www.lickmychip.com/?p=1203
11:31 < splicer> kanzure: Good article
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12:12 < ENKI-][> presumably you all already have the neurosky sdk
12:12 < ENKI-][> but, for those of you who are paranoid, i have rehosted my copy\
12:13 < ENKI-][> probably in violation of the TOS but meh\
12:13 < ENKI-][> http://namcub.accela-labs.com/stories/projects/mdt-r2_1_2.zip
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12:17 < kanzure> http://www.crummy.com/writing/segfault.org/Bus.html `"What If Linus Torvalds Gets Hit By A Bus?" - An Empirical Study`
12:17 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor
12:17 < kanzure> http://lwn.net/Articles/393694/ "On the scalability of Linus"
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12:40 < ENKI-][> kanzure: i don't suppose i can convince you to translate all your documents into, say, plaintext and tarball them?
12:40 < kanzure> "all your documents" do you mean http://designfiles.org/papers/ or wut?
12:40 < ENKI-][> i have a couple nice scripts written for automagically converting all sorts of silly document formats into ascii
12:40 < ENKI-][> everything ;-)
12:41 < ENKI-][> i have a hunger for gobs of plaintext
12:41 < kanzure> no, i don't have enough upload bandwidth for anything like that
12:41 < ENKI-][> ok
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13:07 < kanzure> http://transitlab.org/2010/a-nod-to-joris-a-uk-perspective-on-diybio
13:07 < kanzure> http://www.bloggersbase.com/blogging/jaron-lanier-fall-of-opensource/
13:08 < kanzure> "How can we apply the ideas of opensource and innovation to the fields outside computing, like CNC based personal manufacturing, scientific research and DIYbio when it's running into such problems on what should be the culture's home ground? Are those open-manufacturers/scientists/biohobbyists/etc about to run into unforeseen trouble inherent in existing idea of opensource itself? Are we already in trouble?"
13:09 < kanzure> "How can we apply the ideas of opensource and innovation to the fields outside computing, like CNC based personal manufacturing, scientific research and DIYbio when it's running into such problems on what should be the culture's home ground? Are those open-manufacturers/scientists/biohobbyists/etc about to run into unforeseen trouble inherent in existing idea of opensource itself? Are we already in trouble?"B[B[Boh that's not jaron
13:09 < kanzure> oh that's not jaron
13:09 < kanzure> that's sung won lim
13:09 < kanzure> ok is this a bug in irssi or is it something stupid that i am doing? when i type too quickly (perhaps due to lag) irssi seems to not parse control codes correctly
13:09 < ENKI-][> jaron lanier is the guy who was all about VR in the 90s and recently began decrying peer to peer filesharing?
13:10 < ENKI-][> the musician
13:10 < kanzure> i think sung's analysis is completely full of shit
13:11 < ENKI-][> i think sung is full of shit.
13:11 < kanzure> wikipedia isn't really a good example of open source software development
13:11 < ENKI-][> he appears to be complaining that C is a useless languae
13:11 < kanzure> mostly because it's a giant encyclopedia, not code
13:11 < kanzure> "ruby" is *not* innovation :P
13:12 < kanzure> and .NET? gah
13:14 < kanzure> how do i correctly do a public reply to this BS? "Some comments on Sung's terrible article" or something?
13:15 < ENKI-][> "it appears that the author should do some research before posting this oral diarhhea. alternately, i could recommend a good-quality cork"
13:16 < kanzure> heh
13:16 < kanzure> sung and i are kind of on good terms though
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13:16 < kanzure> hmm
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13:17 < ENKI-][> then maybe you should contact him privately and ask for whatever illicit pharmaceuticals he is using?
13:53 < kyb3R> :)
14:01 < kanzure> i guess you could argue that wikipedia is kind of like "open source software development" because the workflow seems similar
14:02 < kanzure> but it's a pretty shallow comparison
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15:23 < kanzure> my response was here btw: http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/t/20038a06095a9a25
15:23 < kanzure> "diybio meets jaron lanier" now here's some good entertainment.. heh.
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15:24 < QuantumG> is he being a tard again?
15:24 < kanzure> QuantumG: no it's just that someone from diybio-nyc watched a jaron lanier video ate it up and spit this out:
15:24 < kanzure> http://www.bloggersbase.com/blogging/jaron-lanier-fall-of-opensource/
15:25 < QuantumG> lanier's not even a troll
15:26 < QuantumG> he believes his own bullshit
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16:17 < kanzure> wow george whitesides is 70 years old?
16:17 < kanzure> http://www.smithsonianmag.com/specialsections/40th-anniversary/97125234.html
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16:27 < kanzure> ""My view of the health care worker of the future is not a doctor, but an 18-year-old, otherwise unemployed, who has two things. He has a backpack full of these tests, and a lancet to occasionally take a blood sample, and an AK-47. And these are the things that get him through his day.""
16:27 < kanzure> ok whitesides officially kicks ass
16:31 < uniqanomaly_> nice one
16:32 < kanzure> fyi for everyone else who missed it there's some of his papers on the server
16:32 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/papers/whitesides/
16:34 < uniqanomaly_> http://free-books.dontexist.com
16:34 < uniqanomaly_> if anyone is searching for any books :>
16:35 < uniqanomaly_> oh, it's evil, i forgot ;)
16:36 < uniqanomaly_> anyway, 282k books
16:36 < uniqanomaly_> on anything
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16:45 < patrickmclaren> thanks uniqanomaly_
17:01 < fenn> kanzure how would anyone torrent it if the only people who have the actual recordings are the ones doing live showings?
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17:08 < kanzure> "We can and do build tools that make simple tasks simple for more people, but let's not let most people loose on the infrastructure of our technical civilization or force the professionals to use only tools designed for amateurs."
17:09 < kanzure> ^that was stroustrup http://www.technologyreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=17868&channel=computing&section=
17:12 < bkero> We do what we must because we can.
17:13 < uniqanomaly_> we can what we do because we must
17:13 < uniqanomaly_> we must do what we can because we do
17:14 < uniqanomaly_> just little remix
17:14 < uniqanomaly_> no bigger value
17:15 < uniqanomaly_> ok, it was little more funny than it should but it's just me
17:15 < klafka> fenn that's acutally how a lot of music has moved towards
17:16 < klafka> dj's play "dubs" basically unreleased tracks that they/small circle of friends have access to and don't release them, so they trade on their exclusivity 
17:17 < klafka> or at least in some genres
17:17 < klafka> that's what happens
17:17 < kanzure> my suspicion is that nobody /wants/ to torrent 'transcendent man' because it's just not good
17:17 < klafka> what's transcendent man/
17:18 < kanzure> ray kurzweil's movie
17:18 < QuantumG> future recruiting video of the Church Of The Singularity
17:19 < fenn> kanzure: i think you overestimate the bandwidth required for compressed text..
17:19 < kanzure> quite possible
17:19 < kanzure> QuantumG: s/Church Of The Singularity/Singulariy Institute/
17:19 < kanzure> but no, it's not
17:19 < kanzure> *Singularity
17:19 < kanzure> gah
17:20 < QuantumG> that's the incubator of the church
17:20 < fenn> the B[B[B is control codes for arrow keys, it's due to lag in your ssh session
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17:21 < kanzure> how about the weird paste issues when i paste and it copies characters from my previous line twice (or something)
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17:25 < kanzure> random diybio post (nothing new in here) http://voxelfab.com/blog/2010/07/diy-bio/
17:26 < fenn> 'I hate being the tech support for the whole family'? usually said in a context of dealing with windows.. 
17:28 < fenn> maybe your paste contains control codes which hit the up-arrow?
17:28 < fenn> i suspect it's not irssi
17:28 < fenn> but rather some weird clipboard thing
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17:32 < fenn> blah. why did i read that article by sung won lim
17:32 < fenn> i'm going to go cut myself
17:34 < kanzure> i honestly had a significantly higher opinion of sung before that article
17:37 < kanzure> the whitesides article will cheer you up
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17:45 < kanzure> hi Juul :)
17:45 < Juul> hey :)
17:46 < Juul> just finished this http://twitter.com/labitat_dk/status/19380671750
17:46 < kanzure> so, how goes diybio-copenhagen?
17:47 < kanzure> "Now witness the printing power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL A0 inkjet" made of win
17:47 < Juul> I just came home from attending HOPE and then (virtually, grrr) attending the BIOFAB community meeting, and Labitat is kinda in summer low-energy mode
17:47 < kanzure> i didn't watch BIOFAB.. any thoughts?
17:49 < Juul> yeah, I'm actually involved with that project now so I'm probably biased :) but it seems like they're just going "O. K... this is the state of synthetic biology today. how do we get from here to where we can actually engineer complex systems"
17:49 < Juul> and they're very focused on openness when it comes to information
17:49 < Juul> openness when it comes to sharing actual wetware is still up for debate
17:50 < kanzure> from a distance all that i can see is that they are waiting for someone to figure the rest of the biobricks puzzle out for them ;)
17:51 < Juul> ok. they're working on something termed the EOU: Expression Operating Unit. It's about enabled reliable and scalable forward engineering of expression levels within a "standardized" casette
17:51 < kanzure> by which i mean- one of their igem teams to come up with some good prediction method or something
17:51 < kanzure> i see.
17:52 < Juul> as i see it: they're mostly working to figure out exactly what current capabilities are right now, and pulling everything relevant in from all areas. trying to make it all easier to work with. but the goal is not to wait for others to develop this stuff, they're also working on these things themselves.
17:53 < Juul> the presentations are up for free download. i'm not sure why the actual presentation is requiring a password right now, but I'll ask monday
17:53 < kanzure> do you have a link anyway?
17:54 < Juul> everything is here: http://biofab.org/communitymeeting
17:54 < kanzure> also do you know what the crossover perccentage is for biofab peeps and ginkgo peeps?
17:54 < kanzure> are they same exact people or are they different
17:55 < Juul> ginkgo?
17:55 < kanzure> the biobricks consulting group thing..
17:55 < kanzure> ginkgo bioworks
17:55 < kanzure> http://ginkgobioworks.com/
17:56 < Juul> as far as I can see there is no overlap at all
17:56 < kanzure> reshma shetty, for instance?
17:56 < kanzure> austin che?
17:56 < Juul> nope
17:57 < kanzure> huh
17:57 < kanzure> okay, that's interesting
17:57 < Juul> not names I have heard connected to the biofab, and certainly not in the core group
17:57 < Juul> it's lead by adam arkin and drew endy
17:57 < Juul> head of dry-lab is cesar rodriguez
17:58 < Juul> Vivek Mutalik
17:58 < Juul> Guillaume Cambray
17:59 < Juul> Gaymon Bennett
17:59 < kanzure> yeah here are the names i know about: drew endy, vivek mutalik, Guillaume Cambray, Geoff Baldwin, Randy Rettberg, Richard Kitney, Cesar Rodriguez, Chris Anderson, Daniel Bibl, Richard Murray, Gaymon Bennett, Adam Arkin
17:59 < Juul> Daniel Bibl
17:59 < kanzure> i guess that might legitimately be everyone..
18:00 < kanzure> Juul: dunno if you've seen this little project of mine.. http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt
18:01 < Juul> you're missing the names of a few students working on the project. i think that's it
18:02 < Juul> yeah i have
18:02 < kanzure> did i show you or did you randomly come across it :P
18:02 < Juul> you asked me if i was a Juul from that file
18:02 < Juul> and i was
18:02 < kanzure> oh right
18:02 < kanzure> cool, then
18:03 < kanzure> i've been going on a splurge adding in all of the team members from the synthetic biology competitions
18:03 < Juul> you were working on some microfluidics stuff right>?
18:03 < kanzure> yes
18:04 < Juul> how's that going?
18:04 < Juul> do you have some info on it online?
18:04 < kanzure> it's going pretty slow
18:04 < kanzure> since summer time at the shop is too hot for human lifeforms to do work in, i've been focusing on mostly software stuff for the past month or so
18:05 < kanzure> and no, the software for it is pretty crude and terrible.. i was making a library of components to assemble into a finished design
18:05 < kanzure> i.e. "chamber1.connect(inlet_port)" and have that generate a corresponding portion of the graph/diagram for the circuit
18:05 < Juul> cool
18:06 < kanzure> instead what i've more recently been spending development effort on is a python library to generate STEP (CAD) files
18:06 < kanzure> so.. "sphere = Sphere(); box = Cube(); sphere.fuse(box); sphere.save_as('my_sphere.step');"
18:06 < Juul> STEP? for laser cutters?
18:06 < kanzure> nah
18:07 < kanzure> laser cutter file formats are either raster image files (bitmaps, pngs, jpegs) or vector formats (HPGL, SVG)
18:07 < kanzure> this is for open source hardware CAD.. like for mechanical component representation
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18:07 < Juul> oooh
18:08 < kanzure> there's lots of proprietary tools for CAD- like solidworks
18:08 < kanzure> and then there's some almost-usable open source versions like http://heekscad.org/
18:08 < kanzure> and then there's some almost-what-we-need stuff like http://openscad.org/ which is a povray-like language for generating meshes (but we need it to generate CAD!)
18:08 < kanzure> so anyway, we're getting there ;)
18:08 < Juul> ah cool
18:09 < Juul> that's a big task you've got yourself there :)
18:09 < QuantumG> anyone know a software security guy or girl on the east coast who might be looking for work?
18:09 < Juul> what about blender? might it not be easier to mod that to do CAD stuff?
18:10 < QuantumG> doesn't matter if they don't have much experience (but I'm sure at least some would be beneficial)
18:10 < kanzure> Juul: no, blender cannot be "modded" to turn it into CAD (i get this question a lot)
18:10 < kanzure> i've been meaning to write a faq about this
18:10 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cadfaq
18:11 < Juul> ok. yeah i don't understand the internal workings of different 3D representations. any simple to explain reason why that isn't possible?
18:12 < kanzure> blender's data representation and internal "life force" (as it were) was completely devoted to mesh modeling (3D animation)
18:12 < kanzure> if you were to modify blender in this way it would require rewriting the whole thing anyway
18:13 < kanzure> meshes are sets of triangles to describe a 3D object
18:13 < Juul> yeah ok I see
18:13 < kanzure> CAD representation formats- like CSG- build up objects from fundamental 3D primitives and preserve that information
18:13 < kanzure> boundary representation is a more "advanced" CAD format that uses a mathematical manifold to describe the shape
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18:14 < kanzure> of course, users don't have to know the math behind brep ;)
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18:15 < Juul> hm, when you think about it it's kinda the difference between raster and vector representations isn't it?
18:15 < kanzure> yes
18:15 < kanzure> STL meshes are kind of like a binary blob file
18:15 < kanzure> and CAD is kind of like looking at the source code
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18:16 < Juul> I wonder how insanely hard it would be to write a good mesh to CAD-file approximater
18:16 < kanzure> very insanely hard
18:16 < Juul> and the result would always kinda suck
18:16 < kanzure> if you're able to do a good one that's a phd right there ;)
18:17 < Juul> hehehe
18:18 < kanzure> they sometimes call this surface reconstrucction
18:18 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/papers/reconstruction/
18:19 < Juul> :) that's some bedside reading right there
18:19 < kanzure> but in many cases the authors who use this term are just trying to say "we took a point cloud from a laser scanner and constructed a good looking mesh" which is not the same thing obviously
18:20 < kanzure> Juul: dunno how you feel about longevity research but if you want some serious bedside reading try http://designfiles.org/papers/longevity
18:20 < Juul> cool
18:22 < Juul> I feel that it's great and interesting, but I try to stick to simpler life-forms as the compile-time and regulations for those pesky multi-cellular machines are far too long for someone as impatient as me
18:23 < Juul> I should get home, I'm keeping a guy up who wants to crash in the space
18:23 < kanzure> okay. cya
18:24 < Juul> bye, thanks for teaching me stuff
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18:32 < JayDugger> kanzure: What do you use for academic reference management? Not Mendeley, I remember, but what--if not just dumping to the filesystem. 
18:32 < JayDugger> I do that, and I want the computer to do that job.
18:41 < kanzure> sometimes i use zotero
18:41 < kanzure> sometimes i use pybibtex
18:45 < JayDugger> Thank you.
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19:17 < kanzure> opensciencefund.org has a wiki http://opensciencefund.org/wiki/index.php?title=OpenPCR
19:18 < kanzure> http://opensciencefund.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
19:18 < kanzure> http://opensciencefund.org/wiki/index.php?title=CultureCloud mentions skdb for some reason?
19:20 < kanzure> aw man.. he's invaded somethingawful :/ http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2817197&userid=136668
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20:11 < fenn> meetlog['Juul'].context.append('meetlog')
20:15 < kanzure> i wonder if using an interpreter session would be more productive than typing things in (er, since my email/pidgin/irc plugins suck)
20:16 < fenn> personally i would have some  ACID api to access the data to make sure i'm not overwriting the file with multiple editors open
20:16 < kanzure> at this point yaml is really bad
20:16 < fenn> and a bunch of little shel scripts like 'talked jules about meetlog'
20:16 < kanzure> since it takes about 5min to load up the file
20:17 < fenn> well, don't use yaml then
20:17 < kanzure> i could just split it up into multiple files i guess
20:17 < kanzure> or throw it into a database
20:18 < fenn> sorry, last line was sort of ambiguous, 'talked' would be e.g. a python script that accesses whatever database and inserts context for 'Jules' or the closest qwerty-typo distance (not greater than 2)
20:18 < kanzure> yeah i got that 
20:18 < kanzure> s/got/understood/
20:19 < fenn> why is "typo distance" not a common concept? i dont see any search results
20:19 < kanzure> try "typographical similarity" ?
20:20 < fenn> nothing there either
20:21 < fenn> fuck is this another thing that ought to have existed 50 years ago but i have to make myself from scratch?
20:21 < kanzure> i wish there was a better way to get a link of a pdf file that google links to on a results page
20:22 < kanzure> oh god.. http://www.ashland.kctcs.edu/tlc/presentations/Dee_Tadlock/5_Worksheet%20for%20Students_SPELL%20RIGHT.doc
20:22 < kanzure> or the html version: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VZIZmj5ZUD8J:www.ashland.kctcs.edu/tlc/presentations/Dee_Tadlock/5_Worksheet%2520for%2520Students_SPELL%2520RIGHT.doc+spelling+error+analysis&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=iceweasel-a
20:23 < fenn> because when you're logged in to google it gives you a 'forward-to' url to keep track of which links you clicked on?
20:23 < kanzure> yes
20:23 < fenn> there's the url below the result btw, without http://
20:23 < kanzure> not if the url is too long
20:23 < kanzure> then it's occluded
20:24 < fenn> it has a space in it or something?
20:24 < kanzure> no, occluded as in has a "..." (ellipses) in it
20:24 < fenn> oh, that sucks
20:24 < kanzure> a study of spelling errors (1928) http://www.jstor.org/pss/20257679 but seems to be just distributions and statistis
20:24 < kanzure> *statistics
20:25 < kanzure> re: google url occlusion for a .pdf i nabbed a few seconds ago, example:
20:25 < kanzure> etd.ohiolink.edu/send-pdf.cgi/Nolan%20Susan%20K.pdf?...
20:25 < fenn> that's mostly all i'm after
20:25 < fenn> "what's the likelihood they meant to type this vs if it was a typo of some other known dictionary of words'
20:26 < fenn> except formulated as a distance instead of a probability
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20:26 < kanzure> yeah but the study looked like it was just more like "what do people commonly use in spelling errors" not any sort of scoring function of likely targetted words
20:26 < fenn> also it's about people not knowing the correct spelling, whereas i'm after fingers mashing the wrong button
20:27 < kanzure> ok well this shouldn't be hard actually.. grep the logs for *blah
20:27 < kanzure> and then you have your training set
20:28 < fenn> you only need two strings, the input string and the string you're comparing to
20:28 < fenn> you also need a big corpus of statistics that describe the likelihood of various kinds of typos
20:29 < fenn> so you'd have the typoed words and the corrected word side by side (known typo/known good)
20:29 < fenn> then train something on that to figure out the parameters
20:30 < fenn> or if that's too hard just enter the parameters by hand, like 'transposition a-s: likelihood 0.029%'
20:30 < kanzure> klafka: isn't this like what you do all day?
20:30 < kanzure> except for nucleotides? heh
20:31 < fenn> yeah pretty much
20:32 < kanzure> *anyway*
20:32 < kanzure> back to the meetlog :P
20:32 < kanzure> i've been meaning to systematically import all of the igem team members
20:33 < kanzure> it turns out that there's a pretty big diybio-singapore group for instance.. they did an igem team one year
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20:34 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt updated
20:34 < kanzure> minus some stuff from today
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21:10 < kanzure> i can't help but laugh at the fist-holding-a-phone graphic on twilio.com ..
21:19 < kanzure> someone wants to interview me about fda regulations and personalized medicine and, in particular, diagnostic testing services like 23andme
21:19 < kanzure> any ideas on what i should say/push? :/
21:26 < ybit2> fuck fds regulations
21:26 < ybit2> fda*
21:26 < ybit2> i wouldn't say it like that 
21:26  * ybit2 sleeps
21:30 < kanzure> "just apply an appropriate amount of tact"
21:31 < kanzure> wolfspraul: huh were you logging in via taiwan a few minutes ago?
21:32 < wolfspraul> heh
21:32 < wolfspraul> didn't know people track IP addresses...
21:32 < wolfspraul> I am in Taiwan, yes
21:32 < kanzure> well i saw this: ~wolfsprau@219-71-202-171.cable.dynamic.giga.net.tw
21:32 < kanzure> the .tw is a dead give-away
21:32 < wolfspraul> oh
21:32 < wolfspraul> well then
21:32 < wolfspraul> yes, back in good old Taipei
21:33 < wolfspraul> at the end of my world tour, if you want to know it all
21:33 < kanzure> actually, sure
21:33 < wolfspraul> China -> Colombia -> Argentina -> USA -> Taiwan
21:33 < kanzure> (but i might fall asleep- i'm really tired right now.. but i do want to hear!)
21:33 < wolfspraul> in a few days, back home to good old China! :-)
21:33 < kanzure> is michel bauwens still in taipei?
21:33 < wolfspraul> never heard of him
21:34 < kanzure> oh, he runs p2pfoundation.net
21:34 < kanzure> he's a bit of a social connector for "strange p2p copyleft things"
21:35 < kanzure> also did you see the articles today about open source software development in china? 
21:35 < kanzure> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/07/23/1949259/Open-Source-Participation-Gains-Support-In-China?art_pos=8
21:35 < kanzure> pdf: http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/12/Open%20Source%20in%20China%20Presentation%201.pdf
21:35 < kanzure> chinese repo: http://code.taobao.org/
21:35 < kanzure> was wondering if you had insights or thoughts on this
21:35 < wolfspraul> I can't even motivate myself to click on these links, sorry
21:35 < kanzure> well basically it's tim o'reilly, bruce perens etc. talking about recent progress in engaging china with open source software development
21:36 < wolfspraul> ah, the lobbyists
21:36 < kanzure> various cultural issues (plain ol' communications stuff)
21:36 < wolfspraul> yes I think their business is growing in China
21:50 < JayDugger> kanzure: the FDA kills via a surplus of good intentions. Thalidomide will need counter-arguments.
21:50 < JayDugger> by analogy: imagine someone saying "but what about TMI or waste" when discussing atomic power.
21:52 < JayDugger> You might also try the "my body, my choice" angle, which serves abortion rights/family planners/etc.
21:53 < JayDugger> Also: prepare for the "would you really want to know bad news" and "what about privacy" arguments.
21:53 < JayDugger> My counter-arguments for those aren't good.
21:54 < JayDugger> Ignorance isn't bliss, it's cowardice.
21:54 < mheld> hey y'all
21:54 < mheld> what are some cool open source projects that I could work on?
21:54 < JayDugger> What about privacy? You can't help shedding DNA and soon enough people can do it at home.
21:55 < JayDugger> Then segue into DIYbio.
21:55 < JayDugger> Hi, mheld.
21:55 < JayDugger> What interests and abilities do you have?
21:55 < mheld> hey JayDugger 
21:55 < mheld> interests -> distributed computation, neuroscience, databases, systems
21:56 < mheld> abilities -> I know a few things
21:56 < mheld> and I can curl my tongue
21:57 < JayDugger> I can't make too many good suggestions for tongue work, but I'd personally like an Android app that worked as a chording keyboard for my computer.
21:57 < mheld> chording keyboard, as in emacs key chords?
21:57 < JayDugger> Ah, no, wait.
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21:58 < JayDugger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard
21:58 < JayDugger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyer
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22:00 < mheld> hmm
22:07 < JayDugger> I admit: of personal interest.
22:13 < mheld> heh
22:13 < mheld> that'd be cool
22:13 < mheld> I work at a startup -> getzazu.com
22:27 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld]
22:37 < JayDugger> mheld: Oh? I have that beta
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