--- Log opened Fri Aug 13 00:00:17 2010
00:10 < genehacker> and yet the pirate bay still manages to stay around...
00:11 < genehacker> I wonder how long until we put servers in the sky where getting them down would require gumming up orbit with debris
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00:33 < splicer> there should be a weapons platform in geostationary orbit soon. It's the obvious place to put it..I have a feling the chineese will be first.
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01:09 < QuantumG> what makes you think there isn't already a few?
01:10 < QuantumG> http://quantumg.net/dicksmith.php
01:19 < splicer> because it would be pointless to have one and not tell?
01:28 < phryk> Why that?
01:28 < phryk> Not everyone is North Korea :P
01:31 < splicer> because the use of a weapon like that is in wielding it, you can't really hide it anyway.
01:31 < phryk> Well maybe they want to go all "surprise!!"
01:33 < splicer> that's not the way terror balance usually works you know.
01:33 < phryk> And we are back to cold war since when?
01:35 < splicer> why whould someone want to surprise someone with something like that then, if it wasn't those stakes?
01:36 < phryk> what do you mean by "those stakes"?
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01:38 < splicer> you say "no, they wouldn't wield it, they would keep it secret until they use it?"... I'm just thinking of where that scenario would be preferential to using it to intimidate...
01:39 < phryk> I dunno. may be the case...
01:39 < splicer> that would be the china vs us or something
01:39 < phryk> But at least the us isn't really fighting against nations anymore
01:39 < splicer> but you can't reallt hide a satellite
01:39 < phryk> of course not
01:40 < phryk> but you can camouflage it as a normal commercial sattelite
01:41 < splicer> if you put one or 10 nukes on it you might as well just use the rocket the normal way... the beauty is to have something to park over a country you wan't to threaten.
01:43 < phryk> Mh
01:43 < phryk> I wasn't thinking so much of nukes...
01:44 < splicer> 1 ton bombs?
01:45 < phryk> Something like that.
01:45 < splicer> yeah, no.
01:45 < phryk> ?
01:46 < splicer> it won't be conventional bombs
01:49 < phryk> Will it be bombs at all?
01:50 < splicer> lazers?
01:50 < phryk> nah
01:51 < phryk> I don't think lasers, dunno what it could be...
01:52 < splicer> bananas would be nice
01:52 < phryk> :D
01:52 < splicer> + it would probably solve the problem heaper in the long run
01:52 < splicer> cheaper
01:52 < phryk> How would it "solve the problem"?
01:54 < splicer> being nice to people is usually a better way than killing their family memebers... people tend not to foget that kind of thing
01:54 < splicer> ...and it tends to bite you in the ass 50 years later.
01:57 < phryk> Like when Japan made everyone addicted to anime because of Hiroshima?
01:58 < splicer> Like japan and Nanking
01:59 < splicer> you're on top of the world one year, fifty years later you're a tiny island next to a superpower.
02:00 < splicer> Imagine you had a shit expensive platform, that demonstrably could carry nukes, but distributes fireworks and candy instead and then blows itself up.
02:01 < splicer> That may just get a dialog going that would end up cheaper for all parties.
02:01 < phryk> Fireworks :3
02:02 < splicer> punked
02:02 < phryk> ^^
02:02 < phryk> "Thank you God, for making me an idiot" *sings*
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02:51 < splicer> There was an art group who during the propaganda buildup before the first gulf war distributed leaflets with the sentence "Think peace".
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02:57 < uniqanomaly_> splicer, except soldiers are just obedient idiots who can't think much
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03:12 < splicer> The leaflets were not for the soldiers, they were distributed in streets. The soldiers don't really have a choice once the military owns them, at that point they're just tools of the meme complex in style at that time.
03:19 < accessdenied> whoa now, what have I missed?
03:20 < uniqanomaly_> "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government..."
03:20 < uniqanomaly_> they own military and citizens are new terrorists
03:36 < splicer> "Gentlemen, we must all hang together or we shall most assuredly all hang separately"
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04:04 < uniqanomaly_> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100809/17262010563.shtml
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04:28 < vsrinivas> /win 19
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04:44 < splicer> Politics can't win a politics vs technology battle. It's adorable when companies running obsolete business models insist they shuld get paid the same as when their models worked.
04:54 < splicer> The pirate bay trial was intresting that way. It was the image of every major movie and record company with huge resources getting assfucked by three swedish 20 somethings, and there is nothing they can do about it... that's the power of new technology.
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05:19 < splicer> Kurzeil and SingularityU like to talk about disruptive technologies/ideas. The problem is 'disruptive' can't be planned. Disruptive technologies are built in garages and dorm rooms by people with a passion. Disruptive can't be taught by SingularityU, it comes from below, it's punk.
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05:51 < phryk> Piratebay trial was just epic, there is no other word to describe how awesome it felt :D
05:53 < uniqanomaly_> heh
05:55 < uniqanomaly_> if stuff like that takes place it is humiliating for people of the world and just pathetic
05:56 < uniqanomaly_> state feels like enemy
06:04 < splicer> It was normal though, the industry/court/government reacted just as they were/are expected to. They are not evil, they just have "No maps for these territories" as William Gibson put it.
06:04 < splicer> The pirate movement called them "The Gutenbergs of our time".
06:05 < splicer> Do you think the pirate bay trio would be likely show up at SingularityU?
06:07 < phryk> Mh
06:07 < phryk> Don't really think so...
06:07 < phryk> It's not really their metier, is it?
06:08 < Utopiah> splicer: nice Gibson ref for that situation
06:09 < splicer> (utopia: thanks)
06:10 < splicer> phryk: I think SU is supposed to support projects that help a billion people or more...
06:10 < splicer> access to all the educational info you want for free anywhere in the world is pretty helpful.
06:11 < uniqanomaly_> yeah, govs should work for the people
06:11 < uniqanomaly_> and obama gets kill switch for the internet
06:12 < splicer> I suspect it torrent trackers may be a technology that's a bit too disruptive for SU
06:12 < Utopiah> btw is the summit livestreamed?
06:16 < phryk> Isn't the principle a bit fucked if they only help projects that already are big?
06:17 < splicer> you mean they wouldn't back up pirate bay?
06:18 < splicer> What I meant was that the pirate bay trio would never have signed up for their courses, there would have been no reason for them to do that.
06:18 < phryk> courses?
06:19 < splicer> As in Singularity University
06:20 < splicer> it's a transhumanist pep rally/Unacredited university/incubator programme.
06:31 < uniqanomaly_> http://singularityhub.com/2010/08/11/who-owns-you-20-of-the-genes-in-your-body-are-patented-video/
06:32 < uniqanomaly_> i guess govs dont understand anything but money from lobbysts
06:32 < phryk> uniqanomaly_: They might understand.
06:33 < phryk> But we live have cultivated a society of narcisstic egoistical egomanics, so the politicians are just the same. They don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
06:33 < phryk> -live
06:33 < uniqanomaly_> well, yes, theyre not zombies
06:37 < phryk> What do you mean by that?
06:38 < uniqanomaly_> its about understanding part
06:38 < uniqanomaly_> yeah, what 'zombie' means anyway ;P
06:38 < phryk> zombie == not understanding?
06:38 < uniqanomaly_> yeah, whatever
06:39 < phryk> Ah okay.
06:39 < phryk> Sorry if I'm a bit slow ^^
06:39 < splicer> i'll forgive you, in 2min
06:39 < uniqanomaly_> hah
06:39 < uniqanomaly_> :P
06:40 < phryk> It took me up to now to understand that one.
06:40 < phryk> My music is too psychedelic it seems...
06:40 < splicer> ;)
06:40 < phryk> but now
06:40 < phryk> HE-MAN!!
06:41 < splicer> pax vobiscum
06:41 < splicer> didn't clinton say something about human genes not being patentable when he called a truce to the human genome race?
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06:43 < phryk> I want a sword like He-Man, and a mullet tucky haircut... *sings*
06:43 < splicer> all this you can have
06:46 < phryk> Uuuh
06:46 < phryk> 8bit
06:46 < phryk> I'd like to do an 8bit-rave event...
06:47 < phryk> "ByteRave powered by phryk inc." ^^;
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08:46 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
08:55 < kristianpaul> hello JayDugger 
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09:45 < kanzure> "Founded in 1980, and a member of the $11 billion Lagardere group, Matra Davavision is a world-wide leader in computer-aided design, analysis, manufacturing and product management solutions for industry. More than 140,000 Matra Datavision software licenses are installed on 22,500 seats at 5,300 customer sites in 56 countries. "
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10:14 < JayDugger> Matra Datavision?
10:14 < JayDugger> Lagardere group?
10:15 < Utopiah> created in France 
10:15 < Utopiah> contracts with the army here
10:16 < Utopiah> links with EADS
10:16 < JayDugger> Ah...
10:23 < kanzure> thy did opencascade
10:24 < kanzure> *they
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12:07 < kanzure> " ICAD automates any design and manufacturing process by acting as 'the brain' of the process, storing all the required knowledge and best practices relating to design intent, functionality, engineering and manufacturing rules, standards, safety codes, legislative compliance and many more criteria. "
12:07 < kanzure> "Companies use ICAD to create product definitions based only on input of the specification of the product, its function or maybe performance criteria. From this point on, ICAD is able to generate a working product based on its vast knowledge and understanding of the business constraints, for example cost, time and weight."
12:08 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/20041122204622/www.ds-kti.com/our_products/icad.shtml
12:09 < kanzure> i wonder if they did the data entry or if they make the customers do it
12:13 < kanzure> good overview: http://www.stanleyknutson.com/kbe-history.html
12:14 < kanzure> "To a software developer, KBE means writing a "program" [engineering knowledge captured using the ICAD language] where the goal of the program is to solve engineering problems, and incidentally create geometry for a CAD system. Because ICAD is a full programming language, all kinds of complex computations can be done, many of which are simply not possible within a CAD system."
12:14 < genehacker> hey kanzure, are you on the gada prize thing yet?
12:19 < kanzure> fenn: stanley is somewhere near you.. you should stalk him down.
12:20 < genehacker> also how hard is it to run a database about the size of your website?
12:21 < kanzure> my website sits at home on my desk
12:22 < kanzure> actually i need to call someone about that
12:23 < genehacker> really? it's that easy?
12:24  * genehacker wonders why NIST doesn't want to run a fair sized database of 3d printing machine data
12:24 < kanzure> uh well the downside is that my website has extremely low banwindwidth
12:24 < kanzure> they did at one point
12:24 < genehacker> who did?
12:24 < genehacker> NIST?
12:25 < kanzure> yes i think so
12:25 < genehacker> I'm talking about stuff like part properties varying from machine to machine and different machine parameters
12:27 < genehacker> in other words, machine "pedigree"
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12:48 < kanzure> okay the call went well.
12:53 < kanzure> [B[B[Bhttp://www.businessinsider.com/4chan-founder-moots-weird-testimony-in-sarah-palin-email-hacking-trial-2010-8
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13:00 < kanzure> [B[B
13:06 < panax> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-13/harvard-scientists-speed-up-evolution-aim-to-sell-technology-to-dupont.html
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13:06 < Utopiah> :|
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13:19 < kanzure> http://hplussummit2010west.eventbrite.com/
13:23 < niftyzero1> petition to prevent regulation of DNA testing for personal informational purposes - http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mydna/
13:43 < Utopiah> ( What is Science? From Global Warming to Evolution http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FnqhTmM3fY by Michael Vassar)
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13:53 < ybit_> http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mydna/ :: what can 10,000 votes do exactly?
13:54 < ybit_> is it specifically for the recent ruling at berkeley or what?
14:03 < splicer_> is it this: " In June 2008, the California Department of Public Health issued 'cease and desist' letters to 23andme and to other genetic testing companies notifying them that they must stop offering tests until they provided proof of state and federal clinical lab certification and until genetics test results were issued only when ordered directly by a physician"... or did I miss something?
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15:06 < splicer_> found the berkeley gene scanning program story
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15:47 < niftyzero1> ybit_ - yes, it's related to the Berkeley snafu
15:47 < niftyzero1> genehacker - based on your nick, you might be interested in http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mydna/
15:49 < genehacker> we can't even tell what hair color you have using genomics, regulation might be a good thing
15:49 < genehacker> also I don't like web petitions
15:57 < kanzure> there's a gene for red hair
15:57 < kanzure> actually i think it's an allele
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16:00 < niftyzero1> genehacker - so you believe that people don't have a right to know their own DNA sequence?
16:01 < genehacker> yeah of course, no one should be able to know their DNA sequence, they might try to make copies of it and give it to their friends
16:01 < genehacker> violating gene patents TM
16:02 < Utopiah> I have doubts regarding the effectivness of an online petition too regarding a topic interesting to big pharma, biotech, regulartors, etc
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16:03 < niftyzero1> well, it's a first step
16:03 < genehacker> it's a picky issue at the moment
16:04 < genehacker> and besides if they try to overregulate it, we'll finally have a reason to do seasteading
16:08 < Utopiah> niftyzero1: out of curiosity, did you get your sequence?
16:15 < niftyzero> I'm waiting until a full sequence is under $1K
16:15 < niftyzero> will be a year or so
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16:43 < ybit_> niftyzero1: that pole has been around for awhile though, it didn't come up with as a result of the berkeley situation. it is related though, but not specifically addressing that situation. i'm not sure how one would go about making an impact in law, really
16:45 < fenn> quote of the day, "i'll be poking fish with lasers. shooting their brains with lasers. you know the matrix? i'll be making the fish matrix."
16:46 < ybit_> fenn: how long does it take to construct a reprap?
16:46 < fenn> about a week to print and 3 days to assemble
16:46 < ybit_> if nothing goes wrong
16:46 < ybit_> oh, that's not bad
16:46 < fenn> 2 months in practice
16:46 < ybit_> oh :)
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17:00 < fenn> any questions to ask of sinularity summit speakers? http://www.singularitysummit.com/program
17:00 < fenn> wow steve mann's going to be there
17:03 < fenn> i'm surprised by the geographical distribution of "glogs" on glogger.mobi
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17:10 < kanzure> fenn: http://www.stanleyknutson.com/kbe-history.html
17:12 < niftyzero> ybit_ - I didn't realize that... thanks for letting me know
17:12 < niftyzero> (re poll)
17:13 < kanzure> fenn: why did all these people (including matt/adesign) do all this work in lisp?
17:14 < ybit_> niftyzero: i didn't either, tito jankowski let me know
17:14 < kanzure> http://www.gid.uji.es/docs/articles/bermellP_02_01.pdf see page 4 table 1 and the screenshot on page 5
17:15 < fenn> i've actually met this guy in machine learning class http://www.eyetap.org/~fungja/
17:16 < kanzure> (frankly matt's system seems much more robust, but having an "ICAD language" (IDL) is pretty neat and is basically what "write your cad in python" is)
17:16 < fenn> what's on page 4 table 1 and screenshot of what?
17:16 < kanzure> the screenshot is of icad (the thing described in kbe-history.html)
17:16 < kanzure> table 1 is a typical "if engine size is greater than this then the equation that governss it s power output is blah"
17:17 < kanzure> well, cylinder diameter
17:17 < fenn> btw is that just a random internet find? i was talking to stanley on wednesday
17:17 < kanzure> you were?
17:17 < kanzure> totally random internet find.
17:17 < fenn> at qs
17:18 < fenn> he was the long haired programmer guy at hplus in december
17:18 < kanzure> well that's neat. i just had samantha atkins get me an intro today
17:18 < kanzure> you should mention skdb to him.
17:19 < fenn> i think i sent him an email, but once a year reminders aren't a bad thing :P
17:20 < kanzure> uh, well
17:20 < kanzure> good job
17:20 < fenn> i might have been asking for a job :\
17:21 < kanzure> another random find today is "the" solidworks paper
17:22 < kanzure> jon hirschtick hired on some developers to build him a prototype
17:22 < kanzure> one of them was robert zuffante, who published 5 years earlier in 1988
17:22 < kanzure> the paper is really weaksauce and doesn't explain everything
17:23 < kanzure> but it did make a few points like, "you don't have to re-evaluate the entire object graph every time you make a change; yoe to propagate the changes back up to the root node "
17:23 < kanzure> *you just have to propagate
17:24 < kanzure> the ref is "Representing dimensions, tolerances and features in MCAE systems" 
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18:00 < ybit_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff-Dmlreg4I
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18:37 < ENKI-][> so i sent an email to that crazy person who is implanting electronics into h{im,er}self for a northpaw
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18:43 < genehacker> what sort of electronics?
18:43 < genehacker> also implants are quite dangerous from what I hear
18:44 < genehacker> as in static ones made of titanium
18:44 < genehacker> ones implanted in ones head after one's face has been blown off
18:46 < genehacker> out of ~32 operations performed ~4 people got infections in their implants
18:46 < kanzure> genehacker: http://sapiensanonym.blogspot.com/
18:46 < genehacker> doing things like getting their ears pierced or getting a hair transplant
18:47 < genehacker> summary kanzure?
18:48 < kanzure> summary: not worth yuor time
18:48 < genehacker> ok
18:48 < kanzure> the person doesn't even know about induction or wireless power
18:49 < genehacker> he's implanting sugru into himself?
18:49 < genehacker> crazy bastard
18:49 < kanzure> "hur der i'll just implant batteries and dig them up every few weeks"
18:49 < genehacker> ugh, that won't end well
18:49 < kanzure> or even biomechanical forms of energy harvesting (whatever)
18:49 < kanzure> fenn: are you around?
18:50 < genehacker> yeah I think that isn't worth my time
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19:25 < ENKI-][> kanzure: i ended up reading about two or three years into the archives in the process of feeding a bot. it doesn't seem like this person is unaware of these things, but that s/he is just impulsive as hell and doesn't do proper prep work
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19:51 < kanzure> hi fenn
19:52 < kanzure> "The membership does not know about Alex's behavior, as the Board wase trying to take the higher ground and not badmouth him. But I am worried that our not telling the truth about Alex (that he was impossible to work with and blamed the Board for his failings) will affect the organization -- that members might vote for Alex without knowing how that he was fired with due cause."
19:52 < kanzure> "Do you have any suggestions on how to let the membership know?"
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19:52 < kanzure> so in other words the board covered it up?
19:54 < ybit_> alex did something and the board thought it was difficult to work with him
19:55 < ybit_> that's all i gather from this
19:56 < kanzure> there are other issues[Bthat's not what happened :)
19:56 < kanzure> gah
20:16 < ybit_> kanzure: what have you been up to this week? 
20:16 < ybit_> fenn: are you looking for a job?
20:17 < kanzure> swigging opennurbs and [Bswiggirbs
20:17 < kanzure> fscking [Bswingging opennurbs
20:17 < kanzure> fasdjklaaaaaaaaaaaaa
20:17 < kanzure> swigging opennurbs
20:17 < ybit_> :)
20:18 < ybit_> i keep putting calls out on proxies for journal access
20:19 < kanzure> i still have access if you really need anything
20:19 < kanzure> but it's a pain because i have to transfer files around (home, then to some other server you can access)
20:20 < ybit_> thanks, i'll keep it in mind, so far most everyone is nice enough to send me stuff when i need it
20:22 < ybit_> one way of going about self-education is having professors sign off on a course saying you have the knowledge required to pass such a course in college.. and you could do this for every undergrad and possibly graduate course, but i worry that even still i might not be eligible to start some organization to research with live animals
20:22 < ybit_> random thoughts about my future while jogging ^
20:23 < kanzure> eligible according to who
20:26 < kanzure> i posted a video i stole from opencascade / matra datavision http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5C6-J3xpjA
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20:29 < kanzure> huh cha0s has learned how to open the freezer
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20:33 < ybit_> nice grab
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20:34 < ybit_> according to.. i have no clue, my worry would be over some animal rights organization, but i forget the organization that regulates this stuff.. i posted it somewhere
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22:33 < kanzure> http://www.10ld.net/wordpress/make-online-share-your-thingiverse-creations-using-wordpress/
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 14 00:00:17 2010