--- Log opened Fri Aug 20 00:00:17 2010
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06:17 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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07:51 < JayDugger> Good morning, again, everyone.
07:52 < JayDugger> With any luck, my quick tweet to St. Metcalfe will get the Internet connection to work.
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07:57 < JayDugger> Figures...as soon as stable, time to leave.
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08:27 < Utopiah> fenn: clients for livenomadic.com http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10928032
09:40 < SeH_> http://www.transalchemy.com/2010/08/semantic-career-design.html
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10:28 < kanzure> hi thebluestlight 
10:31 < kanzure> blah i guess i should be doing formal architecture stuff now for step.py.. whether or not i'll be wrapping SCL or using fedex_plus or what.
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10:31 < thebluestlight> hi Kanzure
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10:33 < thebluestlight> Did Venter ever release the specs on Synthia and how much oil it would actually produce?
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10:54 < kanzure> hah..
10:54 < kanzure> http://www.kurzweilai.net/ray-kurzweil-responds-to-ray-kurzweil-does-not-understand-the-brain
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11:04 < dbolser> kanzure: did you write that?
11:05 < dbolser> PZ Myers, OK
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11:33 < gjots> Anybody here come across transhumanists in/from Japan?
11:34 < thebluestlight> so if China employs 45% of its population in agricultural jobs, and it fills 12% of their global power index, how much would their economy and financial markets be affected by a biological storm
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11:34 < thebluestlight> say locusts or germ that wipes out all the growing food
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11:46 < SeH_> thebluestlight: you are talking about biohacking algae for fuel? do you have a link about it
11:47 < thebluestlight> no this is new research
11:48 < thebluestlight> think bio-engineered germs or swarms of locusts that destroy the natural agriculture, how much would that affect their national financial market and gpi
11:48 < killall-9> thebluestlight: WW3
11:50 < thebluestlight> if you could trace it back as an attack
11:50 < thebluestlight> freak biological attacks like that plague nations all the time
11:50 < thebluestlight> however it would be hard to miss bio-engineered locusts, agreed
11:50 < kanzure> sorry about that.. was on the phone. someone was pitching me a spaced repetition iphone app
11:51 < kanzure> gjots: no. i would very much like to meet japanese transhumanists.
11:51 < kanzure> i might know some from china (singapore maybe) but that's hardly the same
11:52 < gjots> kanzure: thanks anyway. I'm heading over there in a week, and am meeting a couple, but it's always good to meet more people..
11:52 < kanzure> i'd like to meet them too!
11:53 < gjots> what would you talk to a japanese transhumanist about?
11:53 < kanzure> giant mechas and how the heck they became fascinated with james hogan
11:54 < gjots> james hogan? is he big there?
11:55 < kanzure> apparently he inspired the macross saga O_o
11:56 < gjots> whoa. had no idea.
11:56 < gjots> not that i've read much james hogan.
11:58 < gjots> anything else you'd want to find out about?
11:58 < kanzure> why they aren't as prominent or something on my side of the internet.. i mean, most of the transhumanist folk seem to be american or european
11:59 < kanzure> s/prominent/showing up frequently/
12:00 < gjots> there was a candidate from the H+ board a few years ago from Japan, but not much since then. There are more than 100 people signed up to the transhumanist group page on mixi (japanese social networking site), but the organizer is a Japanese Raelian.
12:00 < killall-9> thebluestlight: the problem is that once havoc takes over it doesn't matter if and who started it
12:00 < kanzure> gjots: can you link to that mixi group?
12:01 < gjots> it's here: http://mixi.jp/view_community.pl?id=407114
12:01 < gjots> but you may need a mixi account to see it, and they only let you sign up if you have a japanese cell phone e-mail address.
12:01 < kanzure> view_community.pl lol perl?
12:02 < kanzure> gjots: what i want is the list of those 100 names.. could you email them to me or upload the page somewhere? kanzure@gmail.com if by email
12:03 < kanzure> i wonder if a free SIP number from japan will do the trick or not.. is it just an email address or would a voip number work?
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12:03 < gjots> no. they send an activation email only to domains of japanese cell phone providers.
12:04 < gjots> any chance you read japanese?
12:04 < kanzure> i like to pretend i can, but no
12:04 < kanzure> i only read manganese
12:04 < gjots> heh. ok. i'll write you up a quick list.
12:06 < gjots> what'll you use the names for?
12:06 < kanzure> cross-referencing :D
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12:06 < kanzure> i have a list of all transhumanists i've ever known about
12:07 < gjots> lol. if i send you the japanese list, could you send me the full list?
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12:08 < kanzure> gjots: yes
12:08 < gjots> awesome.
12:12 < kanzure> jason bobe linked over to his draft diybio letter to the bioethics.gov peeps
12:12 < kanzure> Should we write one letter or many letters?  I have spoken to a few different people about the how the commission operates, and from what I can gather it would be much more powerful if the community could come together and support the submission of a single letter to the commission.  Even though members of the community obviously don't always agree on everything, if we could generate a general consensus on how to define the community and its importa
12:12 < kanzure> er
12:12 < kanzure> http://bit.ly/PCSBI_DIYbio_PDF
12:12 < kanzure> http://bit.ly/PCSBI_DIYbio_edit
12:12 < kanzure> http://bit.ly/PCSBI_DIYbio_PDF
12:15 < kanzure> fuck, he totally ignored our recommendations in the meeting
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12:30 < kanzure> i replied to jason
12:30 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/5e29e42ce89ca232
12:36 < kanzure> gjots: thank you. i'll uh, upload my data somewhere
12:36 < gjots> cool
12:37 < kanzure> heh "RaelianMichio [Group Organizer]"
12:37 < gjots> yup. more than a few raelians in the bunch.
12:37 < kanzure> odd.
12:37 < any94002353> maybe 
12:37 < any94002353> targeted towards high schools, and ti would be great 
12:38 < any94002353> ti would be great?
12:38 < kanzure> what's up with that? the raelian influence..
12:38 < kanzure> any94002353: ti->"it" 
12:38 < any94002353> "Soemthing that's like"
12:38 < kanzure> any94002353: i was typing, and on a new keyboard and new laptop so there's lots of stuff broken in the transcript..
12:38 < any94002353> but you submitted a proofed and de-typoed letter?
12:38 < kanzure> what?
12:38 < kanzure> i did?
12:39 < any94002353> so you sumbitted a letter for serious national consideration with words like ti, sisue, soemthing ?
12:40 < any94002353> none of my business, i'll be quiet now
12:40 < SeH_> rael has published some interest free e-books books
12:40 < SeH_> interesting free
12:40 < SeH_> http://www.rael.org/download.php?view.1
12:41 < SeH_> http://www.rael.org/download.php?list.2 err here is the list
12:46 < kanzure> any94002353: no, i did not submit any letter *anywhere*
12:49 < SeH_> The Aum Shinrikyo sarin gas attacks in 1995 were a major blow to the otaku culture. In the same year Hideaki Anno directed and wrote what is probably the most controversial anime show ever written, Neon Genesis Evangelion.  The Human Instrumentality Project in the Neon Genesis Evangelion franchise is an example of transhumanism with magical means.
12:52 < kanzure> where did you find that from?
12:52 < gjots> SeH_: is that from one of the raelian books?
12:52 < kanzure> maybe this? http://wheerin.com/?page_id=119
12:53 < kanzure> hm the sentences you pasted above SeH_ are from different sources
12:53 < SeH_> kanzure: yes two concatenated sources
12:53 < SeH_> kanzure: ever watch that anime?
12:53 < SeH_> its rumored that Evangelion was used as recruitment material for the Aum Shinrikyo cult
12:53 < kanzure> evangelion? yes
12:54 < kanzure> ENKI-][: didn't you have an evangelion fetish for a while?
12:54 < ENKI-][> still do
12:54 < ENKI-][> and, SeH_ -- i heard that rumour in the reverse: that gainax bigwigs were involved with the aum shinrikyo
12:54 < SeH_> http://english.aleph.to/ is an offshoot of Aum Shinrikyo that formed after Asahara was jailed, i think
12:54 < SeH_> ENKI-][: yes both ways
12:55 < ENKI-][> but it's not the case
12:55 < SeH_> ENKI-][: that gainax was involved in aum, and made evangelion to induct cult candidates
12:55 < ENKI-][> it may be the case that anno (and possibly others) have undergone occult studies, and i argue for that
12:55 < SeH_> it still doesnt detract from how awesome and deep the anime actually is
12:55 < ENKI-][> however, the word of god says that the occult references in eva are just flash
12:56 < ENKI-][> in any case, the whole thing runs rather counter to aum philosphy
12:56 < SeH_> do you know aum philosophy?
12:56 < ENKI-][> not in depth. i'm aware of it
12:57 < ENKI-][> but if anything, evangelion is a satire of it
12:57 < SeH_> or the philosophy may be so bulletproof that it includes the satire of itself in itself
12:57 < SeH_> ;)
12:57 < ENKI-][> i somewhat doubt it is bulletproof
12:58 < SeH_> bulletproof or complete may be a better word
12:58 < ENKI-][> bulletproof philosophies tend to spread. aum is small even in japan
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12:58 < ENKI-][> i've read the article from newtype that introduced the idea that evangelion and aum were related
12:59 < ENKI-][> but if you're gonna join a cult, even in japan, at least have the decency to join raelianism or something
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13:01 < SeH_> or both
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16:08 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question_mark#Percontation_point
16:08 < kanzure> a rhetorical question mark. hah.
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16:18 < fenn> ORLY?
16:18  * fenn punches self in face
16:22 < Juul> isn't that kinda silly?
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16:24 < kanzure> fenn: dave and i are preparing the final questions to send over.
16:24 < kanzure> anything other than the licensing question about META-II output
16:25 < kanzure> i wouldn't be surprised if META-2 performers are just using sysml and that's why it's written in the doc :)
16:26 < kanzure> but if they /are/ just using sysml then i should totally write up an offer for that (since META-2 has more money available)
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17:46 < Noahj> Hey hplusroadmap 
17:46 < Noahj> I just got back from fab6, which was pretty cool 
17:46 < Noahj> There were some DIYbio presentations there 
17:46 < Noahj> Someone implemented greek logic
17:46 < Noahj> Whatever that's called
17:47 < Noahj> Which I thought was a bit weird
17:47 < kanzure> are there videos?
17:47 < Noahj> Yes, but unfortunately they're not centralized yet
17:47 < Noahj> http://fablab.23video.com/channel/762537/fab6
17:47 < Noahj> Has most of them, I think 
17:48 < Noahj> I don't think the good stuff, lectures, etc. is up yet
17:48 < Noahj> Since the conference just ended 
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18:25 < wrldpc2> greetingseses
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18:36 < kanzure> hi wrldpc2_ 
18:36 < kanzure> how are you?
18:37 < wrldpc2_> well, sir.  how are you?
18:37 < wrldpc2_> I see Kurzweil beefing with Chopra.  It is good.
18:38 < kanzure> i'm doing good. might be up in your area for http://openhardwaresummit.org/ 
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18:39 < kanzure> http://shareable.net/blog/a-factory-in-every-home
18:40 < kanzure> "Want to contribute to the community? Then form or join a team in the competition to build a better RepRap. The Kartik M. Gada Humanitarian Innovation Prize is offering $80,000 for a better RepRap."
18:40 < kanzure> hm looks like i have some PR damage control to do
18:40 < kanzure> *technically* that money doesn't exist
18:40 < kanzure> :x
18:42 < epitron> Kartik M. Gada is getting some flames!
18:42 < kanzure> he is?
18:43 < epitron> well, his name is on the prize
18:44 < kanzure> yes but i'm supposedly managing the prize
18:44 < epitron> if the money doesn't appear he would be the go-to guy, right?
18:44 < kanzure> so that's why i have PR damage control to do
18:44 < kanzure> no technically that would be /me/
18:44 < kanzure> >_>
18:44 < epitron> right but it's not called the KANZURE INNOVATION PRIZE :)
18:44 < kanzure> HIP sounds better than KIP anyway
18:44 < epitron> flames are not about proper chains of authority
18:44 < kanzure> ah good
18:45 < epitron> so you think this guy is going to come through and fund it?
18:45 < kanzure> i think it's under my power to change the name of the prize
18:45 < kanzure> his plan for funding it is to get other people to donate the prize money
18:45 < epitron> haha
18:45 < epitron> and put his name on it
18:45 < kanzure> yes
18:45 < epitron> weirdo
18:45 < kanzure> btw the other prize money exists though (the $18k prize)
18:46 < epitron> that's a pretty good chunk
18:46  * kanzure nods
18:46 < epitron> you could probably just pay some engineer $18k to design a better reprap :)
18:46 < kanzure> presumably humanitarians hate engineers?
18:46 < kanzure> or something
18:47 < epitron> ahh
18:47 < kanzure> but he's a real estate flipper or something so i don't know how humanitarian that makes him
18:47 < epitron> that seems to fit the profile
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18:48 < epitron> he sounds kinda sketchy if you ask me
18:48 < kanzure> says the anonymous irc gangster to the other
18:48 < epitron> ^_^
19:02 < fenn> kanzure look what $100k did for the lavaamp project after all
19:03 < fenn> gada actually gave a whole talk at foresight conference about why prizes are a better way to fund innovation
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19:04 < fenn> note to self: sd cards are slow unless specifically marked "fast"
19:15 < kanzure> $100k completely ruined it and destroyed joe's life
19:16 < kanzure> yeah, i agree with gada about prizes.. when you have funding for the prize already :)
19:19 < kanzure> to his credit, he hasn't begged the reprap community for funding. so that's a plus.
19:33 < kanzure> fenn do you have a local copy of opennurbs?
19:39  * fenn bangs his head against the beagleboard over and over
19:40 < kanzure> there's something i'd like you to confirm for me..
19:40 < fenn> plz provide concise instructions
19:40 < kanzure> try running opennurbs/example_gl/example_gl with the output of opennurbs/example_brep/example_brep (it's a file, so the parameter to example_gl will be the path to the file that example_brep generates)
19:40 < kanzure> and tell me what you think about the visualization
19:42 < fenn> 'a download link has been emailed'? wtf
19:42 < kanzure> http://files.na.mcneel.com/opennurbs/5.0/2010-04-09/opennurbs_20100409.zip
19:43 < kanzure> if that doesn't work try http://files.na.mcneel.com/opennurbs/5.0/2010-04-09/opennurbs_20100409.zip?AWSAccessKeyId=050NWYGC9TWYXMD9YG02&Expires=1281644208&Signature=JKLalzRNpmxXoV7Q4f4LN0qT4t4%3d
19:43 < wrldpc2_> ftr: I'm in Pensacola, FL now for the time being.
19:44 < kanzure> is that fort wsomething or gainesville?
19:54 < kanzure> jey kottalam is on twister?
19:55 < kanzure> er, sifter. i don't know how to refer to it.
20:02 < kanzure> "Finally, the PTO doesn't cost taxpayers a dime. It's already fully funded by applicant fees, and in fact Congress often skims off excess fees. In total Congress has taken over $900 million that way. A bill was recently passed to give something like $120 million of that back to the PTO for the purpose of improving its IT systems and hiring more examiners."
20:02 < kanzure> fenn: did it work?
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20:04 < niftyzero> any opinions about: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/08/ray_kurzweil_does_not_understa.php ?
20:05 < niftyzero> ignoring the ad-hominem attacks...
20:05 < wrldpc2_> transhumanitarian engineers
20:05 < kanzure> niftyzero: http://www.kurzweilai.net/ray-kurzweil-responds-to-ray-kurzweil-does-not-understand-the-brain
20:05 < niftyzero> ooh, missed that
20:05 < wrldpc2_> Chopra vs. Kurzweil, Round 2 FIGHT!!
20:06 < wrldpc2_> I don't know about you guys but I'm taking a lot of pleasure in seeing them go at it.
20:07 < niftyzero> I was about to write a blog post refuting the article, but I guess that's not needed anymore
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20:18 < kanzure> // use (slow and buggy) glu trimmed NURBS rendering
20:18 < kanzure> well that's not encouraging
20:19 < fenn> kanzure: help compiling example_gl? am i missing something obviously simple?
20:19 < kanzure> what's going wrong?
20:20 < fenn> 1) didnt get compiled by 'make', 2) "make examples" doesn't work 3) gcc example_gl.cpp -lglut blah blah blah fucking blah
20:20 < fenn> still can't find all the header files
20:20 < fenn> and other errors which i dont really get
20:21 < kanzure> did you try "make example_gl"
20:21 < fenn> example_gl.cpp:220: error: expected ')' before '*' token
20:21 < fenn> make: Nothing to be done for `example_gl'.
20:21 < kanzure> ohh right
20:22 < kanzure> hm let me think, how did i fix this
20:22 < kanzure> comment out line 218
20:22 < kanzure> uncomment line 221
20:22 < kanzure> //typedef void (CALLBACK* RHINO_GL_NURBS_ERROR)(...);
20:22 < kanzure> typedef void (CALLBACK* RHINO_GL_NURBS_ERROR)();
20:23 < kanzure> and make sure you add #define CALLBACK around that area
20:23 < kanzure> before #endif i guess
20:24 < fenn> #define CALLBACK what?
20:24 < kanzure> just that.
20:28 < fenn> example_gl.cpp:459: error: invalid conversion from 'void (*)(...)' to 'void (*)()'
20:28 < kanzure> #note: used to have -lglaux on LINK_GL .. changed 2010-08-11-0359 bryan
20:28 < kanzure> okay, so apparently i had to fix shit
20:29 < fenn> oh i'm using glut
20:29 < kanzure> yeah you should use glut
20:29 < kanzure> "used to have" means "it once had"
20:29 < kanzure> tehe line 459 is related to the RHINO_GL_NURBS_ERROR bullshit
20:29 < kanzure> what does your line 459 look like?
20:30 < kanzure> well, i guess 458
20:30 < kanzure> i should just do a diff of all this crap
20:31 < fenn>     // hack to get around C vs C++ type checking trauma
20:31 < fenn>     RHINO_GL_NURBS_ERROR fn;
20:31 < fenn>     fn = (RHINO_GL_NURBS_ERROR)myNurbsErrorCallback;
20:31 < fenn>     gluNurbsCallback( nobj, GLU_ERROR, fn );
20:31 < kanzure> oh btw it's "make gl"
20:32 < kanzure> fenn: ok. that looks right. how about around line 220 just to confirm that stuff?
20:36 < fenn> #define CALLBACK
20:36 < fenn> typedef void (CALLBACK* RHINO_GL_NURBS_ERROR)(...);
20:36 < kanzure> no, comment out that typedef line there
20:36 < kanzure> this one should be uncommented: typedef void (CALLBACK* RHINO_GL_NURBS_ERROR)();
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20:38 < fenn> ok that worked, now i'm getting a bunch of linker errors
20:38 < kanzure> pastie?
20:39 < fenn> why is it the 2&>1 thingy never works
20:39 < kanzure> 2>&1
20:42 < fenn> i copied libopenNURBS.a to /usr/local/lib and then ran ldconfig
20:42 < fenn> gcc example_gl.cpp  -lglut -lopenNURBS  yields http://pastebin.ca/1921818
20:43 < kanzure> here is my makefile: http://pastebin.ca/1921820
20:43 < kanzure> feel free to diff it against what you have 
20:45 < kanzure> here is my example_gl.cpp http://pastebin.ca//1921822
20:48 < fenn> rawr
20:48 < kanzure> did this do it?
20:48 < fenn> 'make gl' was the magic incantation
20:49 < kanzure> what about example_brep?
20:51 < fenn> okay i see a gray thing with blue jaggy lines and blue square dots scattered around it
20:51 < kanzure> is this my_brep.3dm?
20:51 < fenn> looks sort of transparent or inside out
20:51 < fenn> yeah
20:51 < kanzure> use arrow keys to rotate
20:52 < kanzure> it's a cube :(
20:52 < fenn> yep that's good and fucked
20:52 < kanzure> this is what i was hoping to use as a visualizer to step.py but after seeing this, i'm uh not sure
20:53 < kanzure> now, if you run example_write/example_write you can point example_gl at example_write/my_mesh_with_material.3dm
20:54 < fenn> looks like it's applying the wrong transformation to the patches
20:54 < kanzure> has lots of visualization problems too but it's somewhat better?
20:54 < kanzure> i'm just confused/sad :(
20:55 < kanzure> if you want to see where it does rendering for breps see opennurbs/opennurbs_gl.cpp in particular search for ON_GL then search for ON_Brep (it's one of the 20 something overloads of ON_GL)
20:55 < fenn> my_mesh_with_material looks ok
20:55 < kanzure> yeah it looks way better but there are definite problems
20:56 < kanzure> (try rotating)
20:56 < fenn> it's just hitting hte clipping planes
20:56 < kanzure> also what's with the weird refresh bullshit whenever you change the view?
20:56 < kanzure> meshes seem to render fine: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/screenshots/2010-08-19-python-opengl-opennurbs.png
20:57 < fenn> hm, nevermind about clipping planes
20:57 < kanzure> i wanted to make sure opennurbs could actually visualize breps before i spent some time fixing up example_gl.py for inclusion with step.py
20:57 < kanzure> i'm glad i did
20:58 < fenn> if opengl can render nurbs by default then what's the point of opennurbs?
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21:00 < kanzure> there are some pyopengl demos here: http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/P/PyOpenGL-Demo/PyOpenGL-Demo-3.0.1b1.zip
21:00 < kanzure> there's actually a few nurbs demos that look reasonable in there.
21:00 < kanzure> that's a good question. uh. um.
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21:04 < kanzure> i guess i was hoping opennurbs would be easier than writing my own set of classes for nurbs and visualization
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22:17 < kanzure> "Since Version 2.0 Coin uses a different licence model. It's not longer LGPL. They use GPL for open source and a commercial licence for closed source. That means if you want to sell your work based on FreeCAD (extension modules) you need to purchase a Coin licence! "
22:18 < kanzure> ok nevermind the second sentence just sucks
22:25 < kanzure> hah.. so, because AIS sucks so much in opencascade
22:26 < kanzure> jürgen decided to just use coin3d for visualizing everything in freecad
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23:25 < kanzure> "The term spline goes back to the long flexible strips of metal used by draftspersons to lay out the surfaces of airplanes, cars, and ships. "Ducks", weights attached to the splines, were used to pull the spline in various directions."
23:46 < kanzure> okay. new action plan is to write my own tessellation algorithm (i should have done this a few days ago)
23:46 < kanzure> probably one like opencascade's BRep::Mesher
23:46 < kanzure> or Poly::PolygonTriangulation
23:47 < kanzure> what? http://projects.opencascade.org/projects/graphperf/homer_3d_occ.jpg
23:50 < kanzure> looks like pythonCAD implemented a very simple nurbs class: http://www.koders.com/python/fidA8B25C6E8DCB7531378B3AF5F7886E832D328303.aspx?s=cdef%3Atree+mdef%3Ainsert
23:51 < kanzure> (in nurbs.py)
23:52 < ybit_> kanzure: how's the election coming along?
23:53 < kanzure> actually i can't decide between that and PyOpenGL-Demo-3.0.1b1/PyOpenGL-Demo/proesch/nurbs/nurbs.py which uses gluNurbsCurve (which simplifies things a lot)
23:55 < kanzure> ybit_: i am in 6th place
--- Log closed Sat Aug 21 00:00:17 2010