--- Log opened Tue Aug 24 00:00:17 2010 00:58 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:58 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:45 -!- splicer [~splicer@92.39.2.15] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:45 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:58 -!- killall-9 [~paulc@pd95b50af.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:19 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:39 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: jennifer2, augur 02:40 -!- Netsplit over, joins: augur, jennifer2 03:05 -!- streety [~s0678364@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:22 -!- SeH_ [~SeH_2@c-24-3-194-51.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22 -!- SeH_ [~SeH_2@c-24-3-194-51.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:20 -!- jennifer2 [~jennifer@c-67-180-253-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:34 -!- diques 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[~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:09 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone. 08:11 < kristianpaul> hello JayDugger 08:13 -!- patrik [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:14 -!- patrik is now known as Guest61631 08:17 -!- Guest61631 is now known as splicer 08:18 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:19 -!- mage2 [~mage@66.179.208.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:23 -!- mage2 [~mage@66.179.208.36] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:28 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:28 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:32 -!- panax [panax@goldstandard.eng.usf.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:34 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:36 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:42 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:43 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:56 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:57 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:01 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:03 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:28 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:28 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:33 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:34 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:36 -!- streety [~s0678364@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:41 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:41 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:58 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:59 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:05 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:06 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:12 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:13 < kanzure> http://bit.ly/diybionews updated 10:13 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:18 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:18 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:28 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:29 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33 -!- QuantumG [~qg@rtfm.insomnia.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:34 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:39 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:40 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:07 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:08 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:13 * splicer notes that the last article, the euroscientist one, mentions biopunk 11:24 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:31 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:31 < kanzure> "Its assumed that the input knot sequences span the interval [0.0,1.0] and are clamped to the control points at the end by a knot multiplicity equal to the spline order." 11:31 < kanzure> does anyone know if the numbers in a knot sequence have to be integers? 11:31 < kanzure> it doesn't seem to particularly matter but i'm not sure. 11:41 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:42 -!- jennifer2 [~jennifer@c-67-180-253-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:42 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:50 -!- vsrinivas [~me@rose.makesad.us] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:57 -!- killall-9 [~paulc@business-213-023-057-067.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:57 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@78.8.211.106] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:58 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-82-216.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:44 < kanzure> hm should i be writing separate classes for nurbs curves and surfaces 12:49 -!- killall-9 [~paulc@business-213-023-057-067.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15 -!- alfeb [~alfeb@i577A44F1.versanet.de] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:15 -!- alfeb is now known as alphydan 13:25 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:27 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:34 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:35 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:38 -!- panax [panax@goldstandard.eng.usf.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41 -!- augur [~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:48 -!- Juul [~Juul@h55eb1609.dkkoost.sta.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:05 -!- alphydan [~alfeb@i577A44F1.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:15 -!- augur [~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:15 -!- QuantumG [~qg@rtfm.insomnia.org] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:19 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:31 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:32 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:44 -!- Juul [~Juul@h55eb1609.dkkoost.sta.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48 < fenn> yes, curve != surface 14:48 < fenn> maybe they inherit from some ideal nurbs n-dimensional object 14:50 -!- SeH_ [~SeH_2@c-24-3-194-51.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54 < kanzure> .. yeah, i don't think a super awesome n-dimensional nurbs class is on my menu today :) 14:54 -!- SeH_ [~SeH_2@c-24-3-194-51.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:57 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/screenshots/2010-08-24-1610-runten-pynurbs.png 15:01 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:01 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10 < fenn> 'cntrl' is suffering from somebody's fear of vowels 15:12 < fenn> might help somebody reading your notes to say what format cntrl is expected to be in 15:13 < fenn> see if you can plot just the curve; that would be cool for wire frames 15:14 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 15:17 -!- Alystair [~bob@pool-96-232-219-182.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:21 < kanzure> fenn: that's code from http://runten.tripod.com/NURBS/ 15:21 < kanzure> http://runten.tripod.com/NURBS/Nurbs-0.1.zip 15:21 < kanzure> and the __init__ on Crv and Srf is totally undocumented 15:21 < kanzure> self.degree = nku - nu - 1 15:22 < epitron> self.degree = bsc + msc + phd + blt 15:22 < kanzure> that's the current stumper for me.. the degree is supposed to be uh.. 15:23 < kanzure> knots + 1 - len(control_points) 15:23 < kanzure> er, len(knots) 15:24 < epitron> knots is an int and a list? 15:24 < kanzure> knots is a list 15:24 < epitron> so knots + 1 is... syntax error? 15:24 < kanzure> i meant len(knots) 15:24 < epitron> s/syntax/semantic/ 15:24 < epitron> ohhh, i see 15:24 < kanzure> degree = len(knots) - len(control_points) + 1 15:24 < epitron> carry on 15:24 < epitron> :) 15:25 < kanzure> at least, for one dimensional nurbs? 15:25 < kanzure> uknots = Numeric.sort(Numeric.asarray(uknots, Numeric.Float)) 15:26 < kanzure> nku = uknots.shape[0] 15:26 < kanzure> so nku should be 1 15:26 < kanzure> oh wait, nku = len(knots) 15:26 < kanzure> assuming it's a one dimensional list of knots (which it should be) 15:27 < epitron> nurbs is a good word for william shatner to scream 15:27 < epitron> NUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBBBBBBSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! 15:27 -!- uniqanomaly__ [~ua@dynamic-87-105-21-101.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:27 < QuantumG> addicted much? 15:28 < kanzure> QuantumG: the back story is that i met epitron at a trekkie/furrycon 15:28 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@78.8.211.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:28 < kanzure> (kidding) 15:28 < QuantumG> damn furrys 15:28 < epitron> i was a trekkie 15:28 * epitron neckpinches QuantumG 15:29 < QuantumG> the trouble is, tribbles are loved by both.. 15:33 -!- panax [~panax@cpe-72-185-51-10.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:38 < kanzure> so, i'm not sure if his calculation for the degree of the curve is correct or not 15:38 < kanzure> my way depends on the length of knots and it's poor form to assume that the user correctly supplied the right number of knots 15:41 < kanzure> presumably the degree can only be 1, 2, 3 or 5, but that doesn't seem to be the case in runten-nurbs 15:41 < kanzure> wow wait, it's been 10 days since i was supposed to email gada? 15:44 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:49 -!- nchaimov [nchaimov@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nchaimov] 15:56 -!- nchaimov [nchaimov@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:15 < kanzure> well this is awkward 16:16 < kanzure> kartik sez: "Are you talking about setting up different prizes in the H+ area? " 16:16 < kanzure> err 16:17 < QuantumG> hey 16:18 < kanzure> sup? 16:18 < QuantumG> I was watching some tv show about child obesity in the US the other day.. and the guy talking at the camera said something like "this is the first generation of kids expected to have shorter lifespans than their parents" 16:18 < kanzure> expected by who? 16:18 < QuantumG> I wonder if that's a "fact" he made up on the spot or is actually backed up anywhere. 16:19 < QuantumG> cause if it's backed by actuarial tables that'd be something to make Ray cry. 16:19 < kanzure> it's okay trent, my longevity potion will work long before you have to start seriously worrying about your weight *rolleyes*~~~ 16:19 * kanzure ducks 16:20 < QuantumG> yeah, glass houses fucker 16:20 < kanzure> what? 16:20 < QuantumG> :) 16:20 < QuantumG> (I always forget the :) 16:21 < kanzure> well i'm confused 16:25 < QuantumG> http://i.ehow.com/images/a04/qs/qq/estimate-expectancy-chance-dying-age-800X800.jpg <- why it's a jpg I dunno 16:27 < QuantumG> so, a 10yo male will apparently live to 75.97, whereas a 35yo male will apparently live to 77.16 16:28 < QuantumG> and a 55yo male will apparently live to 79.40 16:28 < kanzure> is that just because of the chances of living to 79 is increased by already making it to 50? 16:28 < QuantumG> that certainly sounds like a reasonable interpretation to me. 16:30 < QuantumG> however, if you go get the same table in 2006 you'll see the numbers are higher for those same ages. 16:30 * fenn squints at the chart 16:31 < fenn> kanzure when you are going to do that myostatin thing 16:31 < fenn> "100k for a pill that gives me muscles" 16:32 < kanzure> i don't know if that would compete with steroids or not 16:32 < fenn> i bet it would have less weird side effects 16:32 < kanzure> actually the side effects are terrible if it happens during gestation 16:32 < QuantumG> consider them willing test subjects 16:32 < fenn> why's that 16:33 < kanzure> fenn: tendons apparently use myostatin for something important 16:33 < kanzure> but during adulthood it's not much of an issue? 16:33 < fenn> how do those bull whippet dogs work? i thought they lacked the gene entirely 16:33 < kanzure> the study i'm referencing was done on mice and looked at the tendons and found significant damage 16:33 < kanzure> so it's a myopic view of the issue 16:34 < fenn> huh? 16:34 < kanzure> anyway, i'm obviously evading yourq uestion 16:34 < kanzure> i meant to say that the tendon issue was found in mice, not in bulls (and bulls weren't investigated) 16:34 < kanzure> so it's entirely possible that the problems in mouse tendon are not universal 16:35 < kanzure> as for when i'm going to get geared up and start rolling. uh. 16:35 < fenn> bull whippet is a mutant version of a dog breed that is missing myostatin 16:35 < kanzure> right now i'm too terribly engrossed in this python stuff 16:36 < fenn> ok nevermind 16:36 < fenn> anyway it's a prize idea 16:36 < kanzure> what? 16:36 < fenn> kartik sez: "Are you talking about setting up different prizes in the H+ area? " 16:36 < kanzure> oh right 16:36 < kanzure> sure 16:36 < kanzure> but the email i sent to kartik was of a different nature 16:36 < kanzure> foresight institute was going to transfer ownership of the prizes/stuff to me 16:37 < kanzure> and kartik made it sound like foresight institute can't *do* that 16:37 < fenn> i doubt anybody knows any hard facts 16:37 < fenn> waffling + telephone game = "no" 16:38 -!- jennifer2 [~jennifer@c-67-180-253-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:39 < kanzure> fenn: did you read the transcript from yesterday 16:39 < kanzure> it was kind of all over the place but there were some important issues (like team size) that they might be insisting on :/ 16:40 -!- Alystair [~bob@pool-96-232-219-182.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:42 < kanzure> maybe i'll call it a toguro pill. if we do vehicleforge i think i'd do it after, and if we don't do vehicleforge i'm not entirely sure if i'll do it in that same timeslot 17:03 -!- augur [~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:08 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:09 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:17 < kanzure> toguro intro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxNGel8z7q4#t=5m20s or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1HN1zN6kSs or 17:40 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:47 < fenn> "toguro" is too obscure 17:48 < fenn> btw didnt know about embedding time in youtube url's that's useful 17:48 < kanzure> i remember random things like that from time to time :/ 17:49 < kanzure> ok how about s/toguro/bane/? 17:49 < fenn> sorta reminds me of fist of the north star 17:51 < fenn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AYaFL6SWmk#t=1m40s 17:51 < kanzure> hah 17:53 < fenn> what a bizarre movie 17:54 < fenn> side effects may include: head asplosions, severed limbs, extreme tubbiness 18:32 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:49 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone. 18:50 < kanzure> hello 18:50 < JayDugger> I'll stick to Sesame Street highlights on YouTube, though that is a good link tip. 18:50 < JayDugger> Well, Sesame Street, Doctor Who, and CNC cheesecake. 18:56 -!- Noahj [~noa@24.38.188.78] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:57 < JayDugger> Oh, RTFT and search. "Toguro" does seem obscure. 18:58 < kanzure> and fist of the north star isn't? :) 18:58 < kanzure> hehe 18:58 < kanzure> fenn: i'm implying your anime is obscure 19:00 < JayDugger> Fenn's right. "waffling + telephone game = 'no'" That marks a no at least as well as "I'll have to think about it," or "I don't have that {authority,responsibility,decision}," or "maybe". 19:01 < JayDugger> I've seen parts of Fist of the North Star. 19:01 -!- Noahj [~noa@24.38.188.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:01 < JayDugger> well...more of FotNS than of YYH. 19:02 -!- augur [~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02 < JayDugger> A fictional work's title generally seems less obscure than a fictional character's name. 19:02 -!- augur [~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:03 < JayDugger> E.g., If I referenced the Glass Cat or the Hungry Tiger, I'd expect less recognition than if I referenced "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz." 19:03 < JayDugger> Ditto for "Biollante" as opposed to Godzilla. 19:03 -!- Noahj [~noa@24.38.188.78] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:05 < JayDugger> Has anyone here attended DFW hackerspace meetings? 19:05 < JayDugger> The next one will happen this Saturday, 1600-1900, but I've not yet decided whether to attend. That happens awfully early in my morning. 19:06 -!- masked [masked@bewifi.org.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:06 -!- masked [masked@bewifi.org.au] has quit [Changing host] 19:06 -!- masked [masked@hpavc/masked] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:08 < JayDugger> OTOH, if the host Artifacture has a sign cutter and a laser cutter for use, perhaps I should. 19:22 -!- augur [~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22 -!- augur [~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:40 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 19:45 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:59 -!- augur [~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:10 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:16 < JayDugger> Good night, everyone. 20:17 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:18 -!- jennifer2 [~jennifer@70-36-134-77.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:41 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:59 < kanzure> "Since I have been following list (thanks Bryan for finding me), I have noticed a neglect of issues related to social organization. I think that most everyone on this list would like to be involved in some form of open source manufacturing, making real things for use.." 20:59 < kanzure> i'm glad he's happy i found him, but i don't remember him at all 21:01 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 21:05 < joshcryer> I can't imagine you can keep track of a tenth of the stuff you do. ;D 21:05 < kanzure> joshcryer: i actually keep track of everyone that i talk with 21:05 < kanzure> into a ridiculously massive file 21:06 < joshcryer> AM I IN THERE? 21:06 < kanzure> wtf why do you only appear twice in there 21:06 < joshcryer> Wow. I actually appear in there at all? 21:06 < kanzure> did we meet before 2009? 21:06 < joshcryer> I just know I ranted about AASM stuff. 21:06 < joshcryer> In #reprap 21:06 < kanzure> wait i thought i ranted at /you/ about AASM stuff 21:07 < joshcryer> Had to have been definitely before 2009 or 2009. 21:07 < joshcryer> That was my most active IRC year, it drained me so I quit IRC for almost a year there. 21:07 < QuantumG> joshcryer 21:07 < joshcryer> QuantumG 21:08 < kanzure> nchaimov 21:08 < QuantumG> Dennis Wingo was just on The Space Show.. did a little begging for money. 21:08 < joshcryer> kanzure, I favorited that epic CNC playlist you made on YouTube but it's ( http://www.youtube.com/user/kanzure#g/c/0EB93E6E02E5CF17 ) gone now, happen to have another one? 21:08 < kanzure> it's gone?! 21:09 < joshcryer> Maybe the link is malformed? 21:09 < joshcryer> I tried finding it again. 21:09 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/user/kanzure#p/c/0EB93E6E02E5CF17 21:09 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/user/kanzure 21:11 < kanzure> find it? 21:11 < joshcryer> Ahah 21:11 < kanzure> ah it's changed from #g to #p ?? dunno what's going on there 21:11 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:11 < kanzure> joshcryer: btw i call it my "machine porn" playlist :) 21:12 < joshcryer> kanzure, <3 21:12 < joshcryer> kanzure, I wanted to actually watch some machine porn the other night but couldn't pull it up! 21:12 < joshcryer> Stupid me, I should've clicked 'playlists.' Ack, I suck at interfaces. 21:12 < joshcryer> QuantumG, what is Dennis wanting money for? 21:12 < kanzure> in retrospect combining porn and machining might be a deadly, bloody plan 21:13 < QuantumG> joshcryer: his skycorpinc stuff. He mumbled something about doing assembly on the ISS. I've never seen his business concepts beyond that level of detail. 21:13 < joshcryer> I found a scan of The Millennial Project: Colonizing the Galaxy in 8 Easy Steps online, it's going to be the next book I read. 21:13 < joshcryer> (The basis for TMP 2.0) 21:14 < QuantumG> but yeah, said he wants $1000 from 1000 people, for no promises, but perhaps t-shirts. 21:14 < joshcryer> QuantumG, oh, that was always abstract stuff, imo. 21:14 < QuantumG> I've read that book, it's fun. 21:14 < kanzure> joshcryer: are you subscribed to the luf-team list? 21:14 < QuantumG> where's the scan? 21:14 < kanzure> it's not particularly important if you are not 21:14 < joshcryer> kanzure, nah, I've not got that land I'd rant about, and am still trying to keep my sainity juggling work and family stuff. 21:15 < joshcryer> kanzure, I'm definitely going to join the open hardware type stuff one day though, and be really active. 21:15 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing 21:15 < joshcryer> (since I won't have anything else to do) 21:15 < QuantumG> you'll be the only one ;) 21:15 < joshcryer> QuantumG, did I rant about my land stealing idea? 21:16 < QuantumG> can't say you did 21:16 < kanzure> do you mean invasion? 21:16 < joshcryer> Apparently, in the United States, there is this concept of Adverse Possession. 21:16 < joshcryer> If you possess some land for some extended period of time, you may claim title. 21:16 < QuantumG> so like squating 21:16 < joshcryer> Now in most states it's pretty long, 5-10, as much as 65 years in NY. 21:16 < joshcryer> But in AZ it's 2. 21:19 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:21 < joshcryer> so I dug around for days, trying to find land to steal in the midddle of the desert 21:21 < joshcryer> http://i38.tinypic.com/4hqp7t.jpg 21:21 < joshcryer> Found a piece owned by some old lady in FL. 21:22 < joshcryer> (Found her FB page, through her tax documents, heh, internet is scary.) 21:22 < QuantumG> any idea how much it sells for? 21:23 < joshcryer> It's assessed at $1500. 21:23 < joshcryer> And she pays $12 in taxes on it. 21:23 < joshcryer> It's basically an investment. 21:23 < joshcryer> Picked up when the US was still giving out homesteads. 21:23 < joshcryer> (they stopped that in the late 70s, in favor of the BLM approach) 21:23 < QuantumG> is doing anything for ~2 years worth $1500? 21:24 < joshcryer> I'm going to offer $10k for it. 21:24 < joshcryer> Since adverse possession requires open acqusition of a piece of property. 21:25 < joshcryer> I'm going to live there either way, so, yeah. 21:25 < kanzure> finding land to steal in the middle of a desert was exactly the plan a certain cult i was involved in was executing on 21:25 < joshcryer> Did they do it? 21:25 < kanzure> no, someone ended up grabbing the atacama first :) 21:25 < joshcryer> And can you have a cult of individuality? :/ 21:25 < kanzure> it was actually pretty cool when i heard that the mars society got that huge chunk of land 21:25 < joshcryer> 'cause I'm doing this alone. 21:26 < QuantumG> so you're saying that you're trying to steal $1500 worth of land in a location where you couldn't pay most people $1500 to live? :) 21:26 < joshcryer> QuantumG, yep. :) 21:26 < joshcryer> QuantumG, the key is title. 21:26 < joshcryer> QuantumG, you cannot take title to BLM land without weird circumstances. 21:26 < QuantumG> which I imagine you could get for about $2k :) 21:27 < joshcryer> QuantumG, and if you squat on BLM the government can come along and kick you off. 21:27 < joshcryer> QuantumG, actually, assessed value is not the same as market value. 21:28 < QuantumG> anyway, you have my official "Good Luck With That" :) 21:28 < joshcryer> It'd probably sell for closer to $40-60k 21:29 < QuantumG> I wonder if SpaceAdventures has >10 people lined up to fly on the next seats that become available on Soyuz (or other vehicles) 21:29 < joshcryer> kanzure, what was the cult? 21:30 < joshcryer> QuantumG, they'd have said so by now, imo. 21:30 < joshcryer> I don't know of them making a secret of their ISS tours. 21:30 < joshcryer> Probably even in the contract, "If you sign on you give us the right to say you signed on." 21:32 < joshcryer> Mellennial Project: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=10W50H18 21:32 < joshcryer> (Original) 21:33 < joshcryer> millennial rather 21:33 < QuantumG> thanks 21:33 < QuantumG> they've never announced the people who signed up and dropped out 21:33 < joshcryer> taking it down after a bit, so grab it while it's hot, etc 21:33 < QuantumG> a number of them have announced themselves though 21:33 < joshcryer> (I like to keep my MU account clean) 21:34 < joshcryer> That's true, it wouldn't be advantegous to announce people who failed the training stuff. 21:35 < QuantumG> Lori Garver for example.. but she's never revealed how much she dropped on the training she did. 21:35 < joshcryer> You know how I know how that Open Manufacturing Group is mostly a dud? 21:35 < joshcryer> 4 files uploaded. 21:36 < joshcryer> Someones going to have to remedy that. >:) 21:36 < QuantumG> I was subscribed for a week. 21:37 < QuantumG> I have that file btw 21:38 < joshcryer> :) 21:38 < joshcryer> Too bad it's a scan and not an OCR. 21:38 < joshcryer> If it's any good I might OCR it. 21:39 < kanzure> "is mostly a dud" 21:39 < kanzure> the open manufacturing group is fairly active 21:39 < kanzure> nobody uses the http interface (that's for pussies) 21:40 < QuantumG> the ufo community is also fairly active 21:40 < joshcryer> I found this guys EarthOS thing. 21:41 < kanzure> i've heard of earthos, yeah 21:41 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:42 < joshcryer> I'm just reading topics, btw, looking for anything useful or interesting. 21:43 < QuantumG> know anyone who's actually doing the seasteading stuff seriously? 21:44 < joshcryer> Nope. 21:44 < kanzure> well uh, patri wrote a book :/ 21:44 < joshcryer> There were some San. Fran. guys talking about it. 21:47 < fenn> check luf-team@yahoogroups.com 21:47 < joshcryer> That's my favorite bit about TMP though (seasteading). 21:47 < fenn> and opensailing 21:47 < fenn> the answer is more or less "no" 21:48 < QuantumG> seasteading is appealing to me if someone can solve the energy generation problem. 21:48 < QuantumG> Savage's solution was nice, shame everyone seems to agree it doesn't work. 21:49 < joshcryer> What's the energy generation problem? 21:49 < QuantumG> you're in the middle of the ocean.. you need energy 21:49 < joshcryer> The middle of the ocean has a crapload of energy. 21:50 < QuantumG> currently it is two camps: those who say you should just import oil (or drill it, good luck with that), and those who wanna use solar/wind 21:50 < joshcryer> Don't forget uranium. 21:50 < QuantumG> Savage had the solution of temperature differential 21:50 < QuantumG> it's in that book 21:51 < QuantumG> or see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion 21:51 * joshcryer knows of it 21:52 < katsmeow-afk> i am building a boat 21:52 < QuantumG> enjoy your TRL3 technology 21:52 < katsmeow-afk> and i am in #seasteading, but no one talks much 21:53 < QuantumG> katsmeow-afk: yeah, there's also the people who miss the point and suggest they don't need any power generation to go fishing ;) 21:53 < katsmeow-afk> heh 21:54 < QuantumG> joshcryer: I guess I was being too optimistic in thinking this scan might be color. 21:55 < joshcryer> QuantumG, sadly it was the only version of it I could find. 21:55 < QuantumG> nah, it's cool. My strongest memory of reading this book was the fantastic pictures. 21:55 < joshcryer> It also has someones footnotes who adds a bit of interesting character to it. 21:56 -!- jennifer2 [~jennifer@70-36-134-77.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57 < joshcryer> Which makes me wonder if it was one of those library scans, which had someones scribbles, but the scanning people didn't notice it. :) 21:58 < QuantumG> I wonder if the whole "rich nutrients from the depths" thing has been discredited too 21:58 < QuantumG> pumping nutrients up to baths where you grow algae sounds like great fun 21:59 < QuantumG> burning the stuff for fuel sounds like a great way to piss off the environmentalists 22:00 < fenn> what's wrong iwht OTEC? 22:01 < katsmeow-afk> space, weight, and cost of huge heat exchangers are the only problems i see 22:01 < QuantumG> I forget.. the seasteading handbook has some choice words 22:01 < joshcryer> Area-wise solar destroys it. 22:01 < fenn> plenty of ways to make energy... wave power, wind power, solar power, burning plastic waste, algae thermal depolymerization, fish depolymerization 22:02 < fenn> but selling fish and buying diesel is probably the most obvious 22:03 < katsmeow-afk> or salvaging fuel oil 22:03 < QuantumG> the other thing of Savage's they hate on is seament 22:04 < katsmeow-afk> where are you reading(?) this, Quantum, i'd like to take a look 22:04 < fenn> read a pop article about an unmanned sub that went 700? miles on no fuel, using a wax-based temperature differential buoyancy system 22:05 < katsmeow-afk> fenn, and one large battery to power moving the fins and/or boyancy chamber/ or ballast 22:05 < QuantumG> http://seasteading.org/seastead.org/commented/paper/index.html <- is the book I was referring to 22:05 * katsmeow-afk dials it up 22:06 < katsmeow-afk> oh that one 22:06 < katsmeow-afk> erg 22:06 -!- f7_ [47154155@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.21.65.85] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:07 < QuantumG> there's an OTEC section.. which is brief but provides references that I followed up. 22:07 < QuantumG> "nuclear power makes OTEC technology look easy" is a choice quote. 22:07 < f7_> sup DIYbio folks, it's Forrest from the mailing list, OSF, and Tx/Rx labs. 22:08 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-110-194.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:08 < joshcryer> Their making it happen section is fail. 22:08 < QuantumG> I think the seament comments were in there but I don't see 'em now.. maybe I'm spelling it too witty 22:08 < katsmeow-afk> the usn did a prototype to float a ammonia factory and run it on otec, results say it could keep several destroyers plus a few smaller boats fueled up with ammonia (as a hydrogen carrier, it burns) 22:09 < fenn> there is an otec plant in hawaii, 15MW or something 22:09 < katsmeow-afk> and i tried to buy some the other day, Post Airgas is no longer keeping it in stock, due to people stealing it to make drugs 22:10 < QuantumG> yeah, if you read The Millennial Project (aka Savage) you see that he's not talking about "incrementalism" 22:10 * katsmeow-afk nods at fenn 22:10 < QuantumG> which is what the seasteaders are 22:10 < fenn> the ocean imposes a minimum scale of operations 22:10 < fenn> you can't go out on a dinghy and expect to grow it to something building-sized 22:11 < QuantumG> page 40: "At this price, the components for a 100 megawatt OTEC module will cost $157 million - installed. Aquarius will house seven 100 megawatt OTEC modules, at a cost of $1.1 billion." 22:11 < joshcryer> Probably not a dinghy, but maybe a tractor trailer sized boat. 22:11 < katsmeow-afk> yea, like anyone is going to contribute $1.1 billion 22:11 < QuantumG> for 100,000 colonists. 22:11 < kanzure> lemme call up my pal peter thiel 22:12 < kanzure> my paypal 22:12 < QuantumG> don't like, start small or anything 22:12 < katsmeow-afk> who has gotten 100k colonist on board? 22:12 < QuantumG> world's biggest cult - at sea! 22:12 < kanzure> the muslim? 22:12 < kanzure> chinese factory workers 22:13 < katsmeow-afk> i was thinking i'd be pushing limits to get a steady 1000w combined otec/solar operational 24-7 22:13 < QuantumG> the seasteaders do have a nice design for a floating platform. 22:14 < QuantumG> I'd prefer it if they had some idea how to make them from the sea though.. which was kinda the point of Savage. 22:14 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17 < QuantumG> oh wow, page 53, I totally forgot about the "airship" delivery system 22:18 -!- splicer [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20 < fenn> i never actually read the book :X 22:20 < fenn> it's sitting on a shelf somewhere at les' shop 22:20 < QuantumG> joshcryer just forked a pdf 22:20 < fenn> yep, downloading 22:21 < QuantumG> I love all the crossed out paragraphs with comments next to it like kk! Gleick! whatever that means 22:21 < fenn> klaatu barada nikto 22:22 < fenn> maybe kevin kelly/james gleick? just guessing 22:24 < joshcryer> Hehe 22:25 < fenn> certainly looks ocr-able 22:26 < joshcryer> Each page is 1750x2749, so barely. 22:26 < QuantumG> http://www.wolfhilbertz.com/ inventer of sea-ment, still flogging it today as "biorock" 22:30 < QuantumG> I wonder if redoing the whole Aquarius dream today would focus on bioengineering 22:30 < QuantumG> for example: why not engineer a single celled organism that likes to form carbon fibre blocks. 22:31 < joshcryer> Like protocells? 22:31 < joshcryer> I think that's viable. 22:32 < QuantumG> just literally grow the damn place rather than thinking of neat ways to generate electricity and then divine metal/concrete from seawater 22:33 < joshcryer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAMrtHC2Ev0 22:33 < joshcryer> I favorited that recently 22:33 < QuantumG> and because you'd be making the structures out of carbon you can claim you're doing your bit to sequester CO2 22:33 < joshcryer> if only 'cause Rachel Armstrong is a babe 22:34 < QuantumG> I think you'd have to strongarm me into believing that one. 22:34 -!- f7_ [47154155@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.21.65.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:34 < joshcryer> which bit 22:34 < joshcryer> the bit about protocells 22:34 < joshcryer> or about her being hot? 22:34 < joshcryer> :P 22:34 < QuantumG> her being hot.. she's not too bad 22:35 < joshcryer> I guess the accent is what makes it for me 22:35 < QuantumG> and I think it breaks it for me 22:37 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:41 < QuantumG> typical TED talk.. she ranted on about a concept that I just explained in 10 words. 22:44 < joshcryer> you listened to her talk?? 22:44 < katsmeow-afk> fenn, what the thing on the end of the shaft that holds and makes collets clamp down? 22:44 < QuantumG> I assumed that's why you linked to it. 22:45 < fenn> a collet chuck? 22:45 < joshcryer> I'm pretty sure I was being all objectifying over it 22:45 -!- _F7_ [47154155@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.21.65.85] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:46 * katsmeow-afk will look for that name then 22:47 -!- JaredW [~JaredW@125-239-149-214.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:48 < _F7_> DIY bio folks on here? 22:48 < QuantumG> kanzure is 22:48 < _F7_> cool 22:48 < _F7_> I'm hitting up a supply company for digital micropipetters 22:50 < _F7_> I've found one that had a good featureset, easy to calibrate, comfortable tip ejection, etc 22:50 < _F7_> and I'm trying to talk them down to 25 USD 22:50 < _F7_> right now they're offering 28 in small volume 22:51 < _F7_> Opinions? 22:52 < kanzure> i was thinking of looking stuff up on alibaba for bulk. dunno. 22:52 < _F7_> That's exactly what I'm doing 22:53 < _F7_> I've been chatting with allpro, and they have a promising aliexpress page, which is what pulled me in 22:54 < _F7_> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/271805899-TopPette-Pipette-Adjustable-Volume--wholesalers.html 22:55 < kanzure> gee i didn't mean to expose your whole plan :) 22:55 < _F7_> meh, what's community for? 22:55 < kanzure> buying shit for each other? 22:55 < kanzure> how much money do you need 22:56 < _F7_> I'm still negotiating, I can front it though 22:56 < _F7_> I plan to give these things to jacob to sell connected to OSF 22:57 < _F7_> I want to make sure they're good though, so I'll probably just do an order of a half dozen each of .5-10, 10-100, and 100-1000 ul 22:58 < _F7_> Then I'll go for big grabs 22:58 < _F7_> They're not autoclavable, but I think that sterility is really more of a tip related thing anyway 22:59 < _F7_> They have autoclavable varieties, but they cost five times as much 23:00 < _F7_> I was talking to Len and Merideth when they came to visit, M was talking about setting up a science supply out of texas 23:01 < _F7_> I'm going to a series of rails classes in a day, I'll meet up with bryan, and get some of this figured out. 23:02 < _F7_> I want to try and set up a site for general citizen science equipment, and just tie into postal APIs on the order pages to autogenerate mailing labels for whoever I get to do warehouse management 23:04 < kanzure> meredith and len went to houston? 23:04 < kanzure> that's quite a trip from luxembourg 23:07 < _F7_> Yeah, it's their hometown 23:07 < _F7_> M's been by twice since the military took that hit off of her 23:08 < _F7_> and they also like visiting Bram Cohen down south of here 23:16 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:20 -!- _F7_ [47154155@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.21.65.85] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:20 < fenn> who's f7? 23:21 -!- Phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:21 < fenn> sweet, i think i'll get about 7 hours out of this universal battery, maybe it was worth the $100 after all 23:22 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:22 < fenn> tekkeon mp3450 if anyone was wondering 23:24 < kanzure> f7 is forrest flanagan 23:24 < kanzure> 19 year old from houston hanging out with jacob shiach.. 23:24 < kanzure> he was in austin once.. i like the kid :) 23:43 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-110-194.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51 < kanzure> "Computer scientist Josh Perfetto and software developer Tito Jankowski heard first-ha" 23:51 < kanzure> what the fuck? tito doesn't do software.. 23:51 < kanzure> http://www.biotechniques.com/news/biotechniquesNews/biotechniques-301745.html 23:53 < kanzure> i don't know why jason bobe calls this stuff "pcr innovators" --- Log closed Wed Aug 25 00:00:17 2010