--- Log opened Mon Aug 30 00:00:17 2010
00:28 < kanzure> i can has cylinder? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/screenshots/2010-08-30-0234.png
00:28 < kanzure> well, sort of.
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00:39 < joshcryer> kanzure, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeO-MK0xUP4#t=0m5s
00:42 < kanzure> you just ruined my childhood
00:42 < kanzure> :P
00:49 < genehacker> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-
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02:40 < joshcryer> Self-replication: the ability to manufacture and autonomously assemble all parts of ones self, including hardware to run the software used to design ones self and iterations thereof.
02:49 < QuantumG> heh, that's a little wide
02:51 < joshcryer> Yeah, well. Without our brains our humans would not be procreating. Granted, a lot of procreation arguably occurs without much thinking. :P
03:09 < joshcryer> I just was taking a shower and thinking, ok so maybe you could pull off a self-replication with some homemade transistors and servos (maybe 1000-5000 transitors tops, micron or even millimeter sized stuff here), wire extrusion, whatever. The thing is going to be mildly retarded and it will still take several more generations to have the whole technology-base self-replicating.
03:15 < QuantumG> yeah, that paper I was reading the other day was actually talking about "vacuum tubes" instead of transistors.. of course, without the tubes, cause it's on the Moon
03:17 < QuantumG> anyway I don't really care about full self-replication
03:18 < QuantumG> I'd be happy if all the "reproduced" robots were controlled via radio from a centralized computer
03:18 < joshcryer> Heh
03:18 < joshcryer> I ain't going to lie, that'd be freaking awesome.
03:18 < joshcryer> But I like manufacturing, so I propose the compromised route.
03:18 < joshcryer> Basically robots on the moon that can make all of themselves except for perhaps servos and the ICs.
03:19 < joshcryer> So you send up a factory thingy, and some robots, and they go out and make more robots and install the parts.
03:19 < QuantumG> I can't see why they wouldn't be able to make the servos
03:19 < joshcryer> 'perhaps servos' :P
03:19 < joshcryer> I try to be concise in this pedantic channel. >:P
03:19 < QuantumG> just solenoids
03:19 < Utopiah> (naive question) can you make chemistry required for even simple IC without water?
03:20 < joshcryer> Utopiah, from what I'm seeing, I think so.
03:20 < QuantumG> you probably can but I have no idea how to.
03:21 < QuantumG> tube radios.. it's so steampunk!
03:22 < joshcryer> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3757306.html
03:22 < joshcryer> BTW, I think a lot of early CPU patents are now public domain.
03:22 < QuantumG> probably gunna need some steampunk solution to sensors too
03:22 < joshcryer> So all is not lost. :D
03:24 < joshcryer> Oh btw I saved that tube radio thingy I meant to read it.
03:25 < joshcryer> Anyone play with Ansys?
03:25 < QuantumG> no idea what that is
03:26 < joshcryer> http://www.ansys.com/products/default.asp
03:26 < joshcryer> An "it only does everything" materials simulator.
03:33 < joshcryer> BTW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOtEQB-9tvk
03:33 < joshcryer> Worth laughing at if you're bored.
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03:51 < Utopiah> http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/4/wikifs
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08:46 < kanzure> joshcryer: i really think you should read http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM.htm
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08:47 < kanzure> and somehow i'm going to convince you that stumbling around in the dark (choosing random technologies) isn't a productive use of your time
08:48 < kanzure> < joshcryer> BTW, I think a lot of early CPU patents are now public domain.
08:49 < kanzure> unfortunately patents do not describe how to make the patented technology
08:49 < kanzure> usually it's just "staking a claim in legalese"
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10:11 < kanzure> 10:11 <+|Japa|> I'm a bigger twat, I use thermonuclear-rocket.msi
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10:13 < kanzure> hi |Japa| 
10:13  * |Japa| bows
10:14 < |Japa|> another channel that I shal lurk in and very occasionallygive random comments
10:14 < kanzure> and in which we will insult you while you're not looking :)
10:14 < kanzure> heheh
10:19 < kanzure> does anyone have the chart of "the right way" to lower body temperature down to cryogenic levels so as to avoid ice crystal formation?
10:19 < kanzure> http://www.benbest.com/cryonics/iceform.gif
10:19 < kanzure> http://www.benbest.com/cryonics/pressure.html
10:19 < kanzure> i don't think that's it, though
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10:21 < katsmeow-afk> i read a report that the faster the freezing, the shorter the xtals grow, and when short enough, they don't pierce cell walls
10:22 < katsmeow-afk> don
10:22 < katsmeow-afk> t know how you'
10:22 < katsmeow-afk> d apply that to large masses tho
10:22 < kanzure> does anyone know jjbarrows
10:22 < kanzure> or Jeroen Van Goey
10:22 < katsmeow-afk> my paws haven't awoke yet
10:25 < kanzure> joshcryer's link earlier was to this: homebrew NMOS transistor step-by-step http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_znRopGtbE
10:25 < kanzure> epitron's link bot would be welcome for youtube links that don't have surrounding textual description.. or maybe just a bot to yell at people who drop undecypherable links?
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10:28 < kanzure> hi Juul 
10:29 < Juul> hey
10:29 < Juul> kanzure, http://lists.labitat.dk/pipermail/discuss/2010-August/000958.html
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10:30 < kanzure> http://biologigaragen.org/
10:31 < kanzure> ooh cool, i missed this one: http://ing.dk/artikel/108211
10:33  * kanzure added it to http://bit.ly/diybionews
10:34 < Juul> cool
10:36 < kanzure> is it off of gammel kongevej?
10:36  * kanzure has a rusty memory
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10:46 < alphydan> kanzure, have you been in DK? Kbh?
10:49 < kanzure> not yet :)
10:51 < Juul> kanzure, yeah
10:51 < Juul> i added it to the DIYbio map now
10:52 < splicer> good find
10:52 < kanzure> splicer: no, that's Juul's website :)
10:53 < splicer> good initiative juul ;)
10:53 < Juul> :) thanks
10:54 < kanzure> Juul: so is this diybio-copenhagen
10:56 < splicer> (diybio is gonna sound cool for about 2 years)
10:56 < Juul> hehe
10:57 < Juul> kanzure, yeah, re-named and now with weekly meetings and a proper IT infrastructure
10:57 < kanzure> okie dokie
10:57 < kanzure> for our english-speaking friends, should we be calling it biologi garagen or biology garden
10:58 < Juul> it's the biology garage
10:59 < kanzure> oops
10:59 < kanzure> got it
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11:01 < kanzure> aha.
11:01 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/screenshots/2010-08-30-0234.png
11:01 < kanzure> the reason that looks like crap is because the circle was extruded to [0, 5, 5] instead of [0, 0, 5]
11:01 < kanzure> so apparently you can extrude in more than one direction?
11:02 < kanzure> genehacker: if you extrude a circle in solidworks, and save it as a STEP file, does the STEP file have a circle in it or a set of b-rep objects?
11:02 < kanzure> oops
11:02 < kanzure> i meant "does the STEP file have a cylinder in it"
11:03 < splicer> juul: The Biology Garage is very good
11:04 < Juul> splicer, glad you like it
11:09 < bkero> kanzure: wtf vampire
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11:10 < kanzure> bkero: vampire?
11:10 < bkero> kanzure: the mplayer in your screenshot
11:10 < kanzure> oh, that's star trek
11:11 < bkero> oh
11:11 < bkero> looks vampire-like, yes?
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11:44 < kanzure> "open source camera" http://cinema.elphel.com/
11:44 < kanzure> explanation: http://osliving.com/sourced/real-world-open-source/meet-apertus-the-open-source-hd-cinema-camera/
11:45 < kanzure> commentary from the peanut gallery: http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/08/30/1639248/Apertus-the-Open-Source-HD-Movie-Camera
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12:55 < ybit> ping
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12:56 < ybit2> grr @ quassel
12:57 < ybit2> kanzure did you say to look @ pythoncad?
13:10 < kanzure> nah not really, don't waste your time
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13:19 < kanzure> wb epitron 
13:24 < kanzure> stalk: Doak Mahlik <doak.mahlik@ic.fbi.gov>
13:24 < kanzure> stalk: K. Erika Jensen <k.erika.jensen@ic.fbi.gov>
13:24 < kanzure> stalk: Ewann Berntson <ewann.berntson@noaa.gov>
13:25 < kanzure> and our friend ed is Edward H. You <edward.you@ic.fbi.gov> apparently
13:25 < epitron> why do you want to stalk these people?
13:25 < kanzure> because they're stalking me
13:25 < kanzure> they are the FBI people assigned to diybio
13:26 < kanzure> we all know about ed, but the others are news to me..
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13:27 < epitron> oic
13:28 < epitron> it's a reactive stalk
13:28 < kanzure> oh this is weird
13:28 < kanzure> apparently i sent an email to an @ic.fbi.gov address a few years ago
13:28 < kanzure> i submitted a FOIA request on myself
13:28 < epitron> is that how you found out about your stalkers?
13:29 < kanzure> no
13:29 < kanzure> today i got an email from rob carlson that CC'd those people
13:29 < kanzure> presumably it's a fluke
13:29 < epitron> ah
13:29 < kanzure> and for some reason i have never got my FOIA information
13:29 < kanzure> hmm
13:29 < epitron> heh
13:30 < kanzure> "  However, before we can process your request you must submit a Privacy Act Request Form which is available at foia.fbi.gov.    Privacy Act Requests (records about yourself), require a valid and legible signature.    The Privacy Act Request form can be either mailed or faxed to the address/number below."
13:30 < kanzure> do i really want to see this document, though?
13:30 < epitron> well then! get signing!
13:31 < epitron> i dunno.. i read that reddit guy's foia request
13:31 < epitron> it was pretty boring
13:31 < kanzure> it's just reddit
13:31 < kanzure> they aren't splicing genes into shit
13:31 < epitron> hahah
13:31 < epitron> he was still investigated by multiple people for multiple random weird things
13:31 < epitron> aaron swartz
13:31 < epitron> i guess he's somewhat political
13:32 < kanzure> bah! http://foia.fbi.gov/privacy_request.htm
13:32 < kanzure> aaron swartz hangs around diybio from time to time
13:32 < kanzure> but wait, he did diybio?
13:32 < epitron> makes sense :)
13:32 < kanzure> i mean, reddit?
13:32 < kanzure> blah
13:32 < epitron> yeah
13:32 < kanzure> privacy_rqeuest.htm is 404 >:|
13:32 < epitron> he wrote web.py if i recall
13:32 < epitron> which was a rewrite of the LISP reddit
13:32 < epitron> ...as part of it
13:33 < epitron> i think he was just there for the founding
13:33 < epitron> he seems to have a lot of irons in a lot of fires :)
13:33 < epitron> i can't imagine he stays on one for a long time
13:33 < kanzure> http://foia.fbi.gov/requesting_records.html
13:34 < epitron> you know, it always struck me that FOIA requests were only really useful for requesting things that aren't that secret
13:34 < epitron> beacuse it's like an opt-in information revealing system
13:34 < epitron> the organization has to voluntarily give you the documents
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13:36 < genehacker> kanzure find me something cool to do with a robotic arm
13:36 < epitron> make waffles automatically!
13:36 < epitron> WAFFLETRON 9000
13:37 < kanzure> no waffletrons 9000 in here!
13:37 < kanzure> gah.
13:37 < kanzure> don't you remember what happened last time?
13:37 < epitron> okay how about the SEQUENCERTRON 9000
13:37 < kanzure> genehacker: do you mean something cool or something practical
13:37 < epitron> practical follows cool
13:37 < epitron> ya gotta make something cool to develop the skills necessary to do the practical thing :)
13:38 < epitron> (at least, that maximizes motivation)
13:38 < epitron> (boring practical things are easier when you're not also assaulted by a learning curve)
13:39 < genehacker> both if possible
13:39 < kanzure> stalk: David Singband <david.singband@ic.fbi.gov>
13:39 < genehacker> I have four robotic arms and two of them have force feedback capability
13:39 < bkero> I have two biotic arms and two of them have force feedback cabability
13:39 < epitron> whoa
13:39 < epitron> how about robodrummer
13:39 < epitron> drum rolls w/ force feedback
13:40 < genehacker> they aren't fast enough for that
13:40 < epitron> ahh
13:40 < epitron> well, a roll is technically just rebounding :)
13:40 < epitron> it doesn't have to be THAT fast
13:40 < epitron> it has to have fast feedback tho
13:41 < epitron> do you have a name so i can lookup a video and get an idea for what it can do?
13:42 < genehacker> no videos of it exist
13:43 < genehacker> it's a heatkit robotic arm trainer
13:46 < ybit2> wasn't there an effort to create an alternative 3d cad kernel? i'm sure there was...
13:48 < ybit2> aside from wildcat
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14:05 < kanzure> ybit2: brlcad, opencascade, avocado-cad, cgal, opennurbs, what else are you looking for
14:08 < genehacker> so do open cad programs not suck yet?
14:08 < genehacker> also what's a good IRC logging bot?
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14:11 < bkero> hackabot
14:12 < kanzure> genehacker: if you want logs for this channel see http://gnusha.org/logs/
14:13 < Utopiah> is you like Python http://sourceforge.net/projects/supybot/ of you like to do weird stuff http://tools.suckless.org/ii/ else pretty much any client makes "good" logs 
14:15 < genehacker> starting up an irc room for the robotics trailer
14:15 < genehacker> also it has to run on a weaksauce windows system, because that's what we have
14:15 < jrayhawk> we can set up gnusha to log that for you too, probably
14:16 < kanzure> genehacker: uh, the robotics trailer has a linux server..
14:16 < kanzure> http://ras.ece.utexas.edu/
14:16 < kanzure> you should have a login to that..
14:16 < genehacker> I do
14:16 < genehacker> I know we have one
14:16 < genehacker> oh ok
14:18 < kanzure> also if you're hosting the channel on freenode make sure you register the channel first so that someone can be an op
14:18 < kanzure> >_<
14:18 < genehacker> yeah we will
14:19 < jrayhawk> kanzure have you talked to a network op to see if they can fix that for you
14:20 < jrayhawk> not that i suppose it's particularly important here
14:20 < kanzure> yep they keep saying they have a backlog of 6 months
14:20 < kanzure> i even submitted the damn paperwork
14:20 < kanzure> .. more than a year ago
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14:21 < kanzure> jrayhawk: maybe you could /join #freenode with me and show me the ways of "talking op" properly?
14:21 < jrayhawk> I have no useful input.
14:21 < kanzure> is there some jedi mind trick
14:22 < jrayhawk> no freenode is mostly just horrible and you should probably be using oftc
14:22 < kanzure> "you will grant op and the wookie to me"
14:24 < genehacker> oh well we don't really need to use IRC that much
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14:36 < kanzure> seasteading institute trying to figure out an audience for its book
14:36 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/tsi-book-feedback/web/audience
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15:09 < kanzure> http://blog.ginkgobioworks.com/2009/12/08/grad-school-bound-bio-engineers-wanted/
15:10 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/tsi-book-feedback/web/competition
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15:28 < kanzure> hi papna-work 
15:30 < ybit2> freecad isn't bad at all
15:30 < kanzure> no, it's awful
15:30 < ybit2> that was re: 16:08 < genehacker> so do open cad programs not suck yet?
15:30 < kanzure> it's just opencascade with a gui
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15:33 < ybit2> the occ part isn't the greatest, but they've managed to make a decent gui for simple operations
15:36 < papna-work> kanzure: Hi.
15:36 < kanzure> papna-work: shold we talk in here or in #python?
15:37 < kanzure> also, progress screenshot: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/screenshots/2010-08-30-0234.png
15:37 < papna-work> kanzure: I have yet to figure out what here is.
15:38 < kanzure> in this channel we focus on open source hardware, CAD, do-it-yourself biology / genetic engineering, human enhancement, and the like
15:39 < papna-work> This is for the journal....magazine....thing h+?
15:39 < kanzure> the channel name is legacy stuff.. but yeah, h+ is an acronym/symbol for human enhancement
15:39 < papna-work> Oh.
15:40 < kanzure> the magazine started in 2009
15:40 < papna-work> Crazy transhumanists.
15:41 < kanzure> heh
15:41 < kanzure> and hey, if you're going to be sharing schematics for exoskeletons or whatever, you need CAD :P
15:41 < kanzure> brlcad, opencascade, et al. just don't cut it..
15:42 < papna-work> Wait. You're making a CAD system that sucks less than OpenCascade?
15:42 < kanzure> it's not hard.. opencascade sucks immensely
15:42 < papna-work> OC works.
15:42 < kanzure> sometimes :)
15:43 < papna-work> You don't seem to be developing your code with the goal to work more often.
15:43 < kanzure> btw have you ever tried to do development in the opencascade internals
15:43 < kanzure> papna-work: why do you say that?
15:44 < papna-work> kanzure: You admitted several times the dirtiness in which you were engaging.
15:44 < kanzure> inside of opencascade it's some terrible mix of C/C++/french/english left over from the early 90s
15:44 < kanzure> yes that's true
15:44 < papna-work> I looked at using the OC internals once.
15:44 < kanzure> ... for the visualization stuff :)
15:44 < papna-work> We ended up sticking with Parasolid.
15:44 < kanzure> commercial license?
15:45 < papna-work> kanzure: The visualization stuff is a core functionality. =p
15:45 < papna-work> kanzure: Yeah.
15:45 < kanzure> well i want the core functionality to be STEP export-- but i realized that nobody is going to use this without a quick way to visualize what they are doing (say, interactively in python)
15:45 < kanzure> but yeah in an end-user CAD system visualization is important
15:46 < kanzure> when you bought the parasolid license does that mean you got the parasolid source code?
15:46 < papna-work> No.
15:46 < kanzure> or just some header files and DLLs/libraries?
15:46 < papna-work> Right.
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15:48 < kanzure> in an ideal world, i would have found an STDAI library for STEP somewhere- like the one that NIST wrote
15:48 < kanzure> and then implement some python wrappers to it
15:48 < kanzure> but instead i decided the NIST SCL ("step class library") was a lost cause and just implemented my own in python
15:48 < kanzure> it turns out that brlcad.org recovered and fixed SCL within the past year though
15:48 < kanzure> so brlcad now imports STEP (i dunno about exporting)
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16:04 < ybit2> i wonder why more people don't use lua
16:04 < kanzure> lua is used extensively in the game development community
16:04 < ybit2> the libs
16:05 < kanzure> i used it for all of my in-game scripting, always
16:05 < ybit2> i'm guessing it isn't as accessible as some languages
16:05 < kanzure> what?
16:05 < ybit2> well, haskell has hackage and python has pypi
16:06 < ybit2> seems to be easier to find what you need
16:06 < kanzure> i was always using lua for one-off stuff and anything critical was just written in C++ and then added in through bindings..
16:36 < kanzure> http://jpmandon.blogspot.com/2010/08/pinguino-as-self-replicating-device.html 
16:36 < kanzure> "The Pinguino (PIC-powered Arduino) can now program itself into another Pinguino:"
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17:09 < ybit2> #pinguino
17:09 < ybit2> i used to talk with that guy quite a bit
17:10 < ybit2> haven't heard from kristianpaul in awhile though :)
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17:21 < kristianpaul> ybit2: hey
17:22 < kristianpaul> yeah sorry kidn of busy bu i try to track this channel
17:22 < kristianpaul> may be i neeed a bot that give me stats about key words
17:22 < kristianpaul> do you know wich i nca use?
17:22 < kristianpaul> that will save me lots of readiong and pointme to the most discussed things i guess
17:26 < ybit2> kristianpaul: you can always use grep :)
17:26 < kristianpaul> lol
17:26 < kristianpaul> and the stats?
17:26 < ybit2> er..psig or something like that
17:27 < ybit2> pisg*
17:27 < kristianpaul> oh ok
17:27 < ybit2> perl irc stat generator is what it stands for i think, but i don't think it's much use :)
17:28 < ybit2> 45 second clip of dilbert cartoon's take on engineers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXGDRrkaRgU
17:29 < kristianpaul> lolo
17:29 < kristianpaul> thats the top i had seen
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17:48 < kanzure> ybit gets bonus points (i've been reading dilbert at dinner for the past few min)
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18:30 < kanzure> hi Japa 
18:30 < Japa> hey
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19:29 < kanzure> these people almost scare me :)
19:29 < kanzure> http://www.processengr.com/personnel.html
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19:54 < kanzure> i like http://pangalactic.us/tao.html
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21:32 < kanzure> http://bit.ly/PCSBI_DIYbio_edit
21:35 < kanzure> jason must be ignoring me or something
21:35 < kanzure> how many emails do i have to write to this guy?
21:36 < ybit2> i like the tao of programming too, thanks for linking :)
21:47 < kanzure> latest trance dump from me: http://pastebin.ca/1929689
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22:10 < kanzure> hi QuantumG 
22:10 < QuantumG> hey
22:10 < QuantumG> lost power for 5 hours there
22:10 < kanzure> when will you move to a more civilized part of the world?
22:10 < QuantumG> dudes in cherry pickers on the street messing with the wires.
22:11 < katsmeow-afk> moving costs money
22:11 < QuantumG> it's all the same.. they give you 30 days notice
22:12 < QuantumG> the notice actually said 9am to 5pm
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22:24 < epitron> http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=423401718908
22:24 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.facebook.com//login.php
22:26 < QuantumG> indeed, I hate the way facebook users assume everyone else in the world is a part of their cult.
22:29  * Utopiah has been kicked out of FB anyway http://twitter.com/utopiah/status/22243371972
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23:04 < phryk> I hate it how twitter users assume everyone else in the world is a part of their cult.
23:08 < QuantumG> only morons who mark their tweets as "private"
23:08 < QuantumG> completely missing the point of the medium
23:48  * kanzure mumbles something about saving revolved curves and surfaces for tomorrow
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 31 00:00:17 2010