--- Log opened Wed Sep 22 00:00:18 2010 00:17 -!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has quit [Quit: memorex] 00:34 -!- ferrouswheel [~joel@121-98-81-17.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47 -!- ferrouswheel [~joel@121-98-81-17.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:49 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:56 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10 -!- Jappe2 [jappe2@kapsi.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:10 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:20 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279397903.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:21 -!- CryptoQuick [~CryptoQui@c-174-51-234-80.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:46 < fenn> "best paper airplane" http://www.zurqui.com/crinfocus/paper/airplane.html 01:50 < superkuh> I used to make those every morning during middle school. At least steps 1-24. I never made a tail. 01:55 < Utopiah> fenn: anybody did some tests about paper design in virtual wind tunnels? 01:57 < Utopiah> maybe submitting batches of random designs to http://raphael.mit.edu/Java/ :-# 02:15 -!- killall-9 [~paulc@diana.null.ro] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:45 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:28 < Utopiah> from Vimperator to http://dactyl.sourceforge.net/pentadactyl/faq ? 03:41 < splicer> Solar water disinfection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection 03:41 -!- JaredWigmore [~JaredW@219-89-57-76.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:42 -!- JaredW [~JaredW@122-57-85-94.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:56 -!- JaredWigmore is now known as JaredW 04:40 -!- ybit [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:44 -!- ybit [~ybit@c-71-228-177-79.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:44 -!- ybit [~ybit@c-71-228-177-79.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:44 -!- ybit [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:00 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@183.17.33.59] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:45 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-94-19.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:49 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@78.9.72.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:59 -!- splicer [~splicer@92.39.2.70] has quit [] 07:34 -!- thesnark [~AndChat@243.sub-72-118-234.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:38 < thesnark> Howdy all. 07:52 -!- panax [panax@goldstandard.eng.usf.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:57 < archels> hello thesnark 07:57 < archels> I've been told that you have high-resolution photographs of the internals of the Emotiv EPOC. :) 08:05 < kanzure> huh michael simons (slackware) is a transhumanist 08:05 < kanzure> (more like a masochist, but whatever) 08:13 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:25 -!- dustbin [~chatzilla@adsl-71-145-146-189.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:28 -!- ybit [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47 -!- shepazu [~schepers@adsl-242-206-12.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: shepazu] 09:19 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:19 * ybit grrs at quassel :\\ 09:19 < ybit> or mayhaps freenode 09:20 < ybit> either way, there's about 15 channels not being connected to automatically :| 09:20 < ybit> #hplusroadmap, your on that list 09:20 < ybit> you're* 09:26 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:29 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:29 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:36 -!- thesnark [~AndChat@243.sub-72-118-234.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:36 -!- patrik [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:36 -!- patrik is now known as splicer 09:58 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:59 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:04 < kanzure> http://blog.ponoko.com/2010/09/21/a-rush-order-to-washington-%E2%80%94-openpcr-presented-at-bioethics-commission/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Ponoko+%28Ponoko%29 10:04 < kanzure> hehe adding in url tracking is so stupid, i didn't even come from feedburner :( 10:21 < archels> Right, finished The Grand Design by Stephen Hawking. 10:21 < archels> Left me kinda wanting. 10:25 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279397903.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:38 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:49 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 10:49 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:50 -!- killall-9 [~paulc@diana.null.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:53 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-206-124.resnet.ua.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:57 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-206-124.resnet.ua.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 11:51 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:59 < kanzure> http://www.transhumanism.org/languages/russian/dawnofsingularity/Deering.htm 11:59 < kanzure> do we have any russian lurkers 12:08 < drazak> kanzure: so uh 12:08 < drazak> kanzure: synthesizing sybrgreen I 12:11 < dustbin> what's the russian link for? 12:11 < drazak> kanzure: I think I might do it 12:15 < mheld> kanzure: I'm russian 12:15 < mheld> though my russian generally sucks 12:16 < mheld> also, you wouldn't (per chance) happen to know ray kurzweil? 12:18 < drazak> lol 12:18 < drazak> he does 12:18 < drazak> kanzure has mentioned him a ton 12:18 < mheld> I meant personally 12:19 < mheld> I would like an introduction to him :-) 12:19 < drazak> Uhm 12:19 < drazak> I think he's met him 12:27 < archels> Why do you want to meet Ray Kurzweil? 12:28 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:35 < kanzure> ray is a very busy person 12:38 < drazak> besides 12:38 < archels> Who probably gets bothered a *lot* by nuts and non-nuts hoping to pitch their ideas. 12:38 -!- archels [~neuralnet@541EEC68.cm-5-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Changing host] 12:38 -!- archels [~neuralnet@unaffiliated/archels] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:39 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 12:53 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:17 -!- memorex [~durp@c-68-62-138-99.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:19 < kanzure> hah! this makes my day 13:19 < kanzure> Michael Annisimov 13:19 < memorex> Who is that? 13:19 < kanzure> michael is a friend.. runs acceleratingfuture.com 13:20 < kanzure> hangs out with the singularity institute folks 13:20 < kanzure> *anissimov 13:20 < memorex> ah. 13:20 < memorex> Do you know anything about p21? 13:20 < kanzure> part 21? 13:21 < memorex> I think so. I am new to all of this but I think so. 13:22 < memorex> kanzure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P21 13:23 < kanzure> my laptop is acting up so i will be lagggging significantly 13:23 < memorex> Alright, I can wait. 13:23 < kanzure> ah the link you gave me is not the same thing i was thinking of ;) 13:23 < memorex> oh 13:23 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:23 < kanzure> but kinase inhit 13:24 < kanzure> blah 13:24 < kanzure> but kinnnnase inhibitors do cool shit 13:24 < memorex> Cure cancer? 13:24 < memorex> It seems to be directly attached to inhibiting cancerous cells from mitosis. 13:40 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:44 < kanzure> tips for transhumanist activists: don't use screen names like darkvegeta26 13:44 < kanzure> http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/works/transhumanisttips.htm 13:44 < kanzure> (it's actually in there) 13:45 < Daeken> everything i do is under Daeken, but anyone googling that will immediately find my real name, by design 13:47 < kanzure> yep 13:47 < kanzure> i actually like the name 'darkvegeta26' 13:47 < kanzure> :( 13:49 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:58 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:00 < kanzure> "to provide for the establishment of a national fab lab network" 14:00 < kanzure> http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-6003 14:04 < kanzure> one per 700,000 people is about 438 14:21 -!- QuantumG [~qg@rtfm.insomnia.org] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:35 < panax> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html 15:06 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:27 -!- bdesk [~argriffi@unaffiliated/bdesk] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:31 < kanzure> hi bdesk 15:31 < bdesk> hey 15:32 < bdesk> i'm hanging out on irc because someone is supposed to msg me and then I help them with their theoretical computer science questions. i'll probably just look it up on wiki. 15:33 < bdesk> just stopping by to make sure i didn't miss the singularity 15:33 < Utopiah> 1h too late 15:33 < bdesk> dam 15:33 < bdesk> so i must be a bot then 15:34 < Utopiah> or an historical archive 15:34 < Utopiah> relax though, things will look the same at first. 15:37 < Utopiah> since you are into CS note that there also is #ai (rather trolly) #agi (rather dead) #machinelearning (rather technical) and few others related channel 15:39 < bdesk> #machinelearning has nice technical content but this channel has more interesting drama. 15:39 < Utopiah> there is also #swig on web 11.0 15:40 < bdesk> swig is http://www.swig.org/ ? 15:41 < Utopiah> Semantic Web Interest Group http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/interest/ 15:43 < Utopiah> do you have a website? 15:47 < bdesk> no 15:48 < Utopiah> so I should directly ask you what you are interested in? 15:48 < bdesk> semantic web seems a bit idealistic because it appears to be predicated on people writing their codes to work with it, rather than just using advanced machine learning methods to scrape out what you need from whatever format other people use. 15:48 < QuantumG> the problem with semantic web is that no-one knows what to do with it 15:49 < QuantumG> what's the killer app? don't have one? ok, bye. 15:50 < bdesk> Utopiah: i'm really here to see which diybio group turns their hacker space into a corporation and kicks out the riffraff. 15:51 < kanzure> swig.org is #swig-wrapper 15:51 < kanzure> also where's the drama in here? 15:51 < kanzure> i want my drama :o 15:51 < QuantumG> I wonder if that guy is still ignoring me 15:51 < kanzure> QuantumG: pmetzger? 15:51 < QuantumG> ya 15:51 < kanzure> he's not in here 15:52 < QuantumG> ignoring all of us then :) 15:52 < kanzure> the best kind of /ignore 15:52 < kanzure> bdesk: if it's a company then why not just call it a biotech startup 15:53 < bdesk> because then you don't get the media bump at the beginning, or the diy chic. 15:55 < QuantumG> I would kinda expect diy people to eventually find something commercial to do.. ya know, to support their habit 15:56 < QuantumG> when's someone gunna diy themselves a bug that produces lsd or similar 15:56 < bdesk> that's where Edward You comes in. 15:57 < kanzure> i wasn't aware that mr. you travels 15:57 < kanzure> http://www.fbi.gov/hq/nsb/wmd/images/hrtppe.jpg 15:58 < kanzure> i mean, out of the united states :) 15:59 < bdesk> but yeah, if diybio is unsustainable in the sense that the participants will need to find something commercial to do to support their eating or rent habits, then it just makes it that much more interesting to watch. 16:04 < kanzure> well, "ignoring intellectual property" will definitely be an interesting biotech startup strategy to keep an eye on 16:04 < kanzure> i for one was hoping we'd just come up with some other licensing scheme or anti-patent method 16:04 < kanzure> but whatever 16:08 -!- panax [panax@goldstandard.eng.usf.edu] has quit [] 16:09 < bdesk> yes, that is another interesting issue. 16:16 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:18 < kanzure> bdesk: you're right, just about anyone can use diybio for their media bump 16:18 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:19 < mheld> I know ray's a very busy person 16:19 < mheld> I'd like to have him as one of those super advisors who come down from their mountain every once in a while 16:19 < kanzure> tmccabe37 has probably spent more time with him 16:20 < mheld> ah 16:21 < kanzure> actually 'davidad' used to be around in here.. ray's last book was dedicated to davidad :P or something 16:22 < kanzure> Noahj: you don't think you can convince david to come back to idle, do you? 16:23 -!- memorex [~durp@c-68-62-138-99.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26 -!- memorex [~durp@c-68-62-138-99.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:29 < mheld> oh 16:29 < mheld> neat 16:34 < tmccabe37> Hey Kanzure 16:34 < tmccabe37> What about Ray? 16:34 < kanzure> mheld was asking stuff 16:35 < tmccabe37> mheld: What about Ray? 16:37 < mheld> hey 16:37 < mheld> are you in contact with him? 16:38 < mheld> I'd love to introduce myself and say hi 16:38 < mheld> (and maybe get his thoughts on some stuff) 16:39 < tmccabe37> I work for Ray, but his time is very limited 16:39 < mheld> I can understand that 16:39 < tmccabe37> What's your True Name? 16:39 < mheld> Marc Held 16:40 < mheld> I mean, maybe now isn't the right time 16:40 < mheld> but at one point I'd love to say hi 16:41 < tmccabe37> Where are you located? 16:41 < mheld> tmccabe37: you work at Kurzweil Tech? 16:41 < mheld> I'm in/around boston 16:41 < tmccabe37> KurzweilAI.net 16:41 < mheld> oh neat! 16:41 < tmccabe37> I'm currently in Connecticut though 16:42 < mheld> ah 16:42 < mheld> I mean, I have to admit that my intentions aren't the most pure 16:43 < mheld> I'm working at a startup and I'd love to have his opinion on some stuff 16:43 < tmccabe37> What field? 16:43 < mheld> kinda mobile software 16:43 < mheld> we're building Jarvis from Iron Man 16:44 < mheld> though right now, this iteration is essentially a glorified alarm clock 16:44 < mheld> (mobile alarm clock) 16:44 < tmccabe37> That's not Ray's field 16:45 < mheld> he's been in voice synthesis 16:45 < mheld> no? 16:46 < tmccabe37> Yes, but that doesn't have much to do with alarm clocks 16:46 < mheld> I'm not doing such a great job pitching the product 16:47 < mheld> we're building a mobile application that vocally awakens users to their most pertinent information (email, calendar, news) 16:48 < tmccabe37> Which speech synthesis software are you using? 16:49 < QuantumG> oh yeah, did anyone see that speech compression codec that Bruce Perens was floggin' on Slashdot? 16:49 < tmccabe37> I did not 16:50 < mheld> heh, we're using a mix between espeak (IIRC -- it's whatever's built into the android sdk) and nuance 16:50 < mheld> though for business reasons we might not end up using those 16:51 < QuantumG> http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?page_id=452 16:51 < QuantumG> it looks pretty good 16:51 < tmccabe37> What's your current userbase like? 16:52 < QuantumG> next time I get the "I wanna do something with speech" bug I might see if it's worthwhile using it as a frontend for speech recognition 16:52 < mheld> tmccabe37: we're beta-ing it to 500 people right now, on the verge of launch pending word from pepsico -- we're a brand partner with them 16:52 < mheld> QuantumG: that's awesome 16:52 -!- ybit [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53 < mheld> tmccabe37: feel free to tell me "no," I won't be offended 16:54 < mheld> we're chatting with a bunch of the former wildfire guys, thought I might get ray's input 16:54 < tmccabe37> I'm hesitant to tell anyone "no" before hearing them out 16:54 < mheld> ah 16:54 < mheld> well, thanks for listening :-) 16:56 < tmccabe37> But if you don't have any real reason why you *need* to talk to him specifically, then there's not really a case I can make for him seeing you 16:56 < bdesk> is ray kurzweil still working on stuff for blind people, or is it all life extension and media? 16:56 < tmccabe37> Yes 16:56 < bdesk> yes to blind people? 16:56 < tmccabe37> http://www.knfbreader.com/ 17:00 < mheld> tmccabe37: what's his involvement with TTS ATM? 17:01 < bdesk> well knfbreader looks like it uses text-to-speech when it reads the text. 17:01 < tmccabe37> mheld: You can see kurzweiltech.com for an overview 17:03 < mheld> I guess it would make more sense for me to chat with people from knfb first 17:08 < bdesk> if it becomes feasible to live indefinitely long through technology, then should access to this technology become a human right? 17:12 < mheld> tmccabe37: I'll come bug you once I have some actually interesting questions for ray 17:12 < tmccabe37> OK, thanks 17:19 < kanzure> bdesk: what the hell is a "human right" and gtfo 17:20 < QuantumG> spoken like a true american 17:21 < mheld> bdesk: it'll most definitely be a privatized technology, so I'd be surprised if it was public access 17:22 < mheld> there'd be some interesting population implications 17:22 < mheld> unless you're talking non-physical stuff 17:23 < kanzure> "privatized technology" is another way of saying imaginary intellectual property 17:23 < kanzure> when did #hplusroadmap get so lame 17:23 < mheld> it was me 17:23 < mheld> I don't usually speak here :-P 17:24 < kanzure> i don't think ray would be interested in getzazu 17:24 < kanzure> :( 17:24 < QuantumG> kanzure: you're so lame :P 17:24 < mheld> that's fine, I'll convince him eventually 17:24 < kanzure> ray isn't really worth convincing 17:24 < kanzure> i mean, what have you to gain 17:24 < mheld> insight 17:24 < kanzure> uh he just steals that :P 17:24 < kanzure> (although he credits people) 17:25 < mheld> hmm 17:25 < mheld> well, I still think it'd be interesting to see what he has to say 17:26 < mheld> end goal is a not-evil skynet 17:27 < bdesk> if you want transhumanism for yourself as soon as possible, is it more rational to try to accelerate its development or alternatively to become an orthodontist and make enough money to afford it when it comes? 17:27 < QuantumG> or you could make enough money and give it to people like kanzure 17:28 < kanzure> who says "when it comes" they will sell it to you? you should just make it yourself and get it over with 17:28 < QuantumG> some funding and organization could do a lot for the transhumanist cause 17:29 < kanzure> QuantumG: arguably, that's not true 17:29 < kanzure> look at what millions of dollars have done for the world transhumanist association 17:29 < QuantumG> there's good organization and bad 17:30 < kanzure> too many marketing people, promotionalists, authors, essayists, etc., not enough learning/doing 17:30 < kanzure> that's certainly true 17:30 < QuantumG> yeah, technology startups with actual customers is what transhumanism needs 17:30 < kanzure> for some reason i spend a lot of time trying to convince people like bdesk to give up his "Intellectual Property" ways or something 17:30 < kanzure> i've been a little surprised that there are not more h+ startups around 17:31 < kanzure> some if it might just be because nobody wants to brand their human engineering company as transhumanist ;) 17:31 < kanzure> and also because the majority of the h+ community isn't actually conducive to startups 17:31 < QuantumG> random example: people are always talking about how the best example of transhumanists today are people with prosthetics.. and yet no-one goes to any trouble to make prosthetics so awesome that non-afflicted people get jealous. 17:32 < mheld> QuantumG: we're working on it :-) 17:32 < bdesk> QuantumG: i asked about this earlier, and i was told that disabled people are assholes. 17:32 < bdesk> which might be true, i don't really know. 17:33 < QuantumG> heh. some certainly are 17:33 < kanzure> QuantumG: in general, brain-computer interfaces aren't a solved thing quite yet 17:33 < kanzure> i mean, microelectrode arrays involve lots of surgery and stuff and negligble benefits 17:34 < QuantumG> friend of mine in a wheelchair used to go on about all the awesome stuff he wanted.. then his perspective changed to "I just want an affordable chair" and I think that's where most people in that situation end up. 17:34 < kanzure> northpaw implanters aren't a huge market 17:34 < bdesk> kanzure: do you have a link to your best argument against "Intellectual Property" ways? 17:35 < QuantumG> and deaf people with cochlear implants are treated by the deaf community much the same as bisexual women are treated by the lesbian community. 17:35 < kanzure> bdesk: reasonable request :) let me dig 17:35 < mheld> I'd be interested in that 17:35 < mheld> because we're in the midst of writing up some patent disclosures 17:35 < mheld> I'm vehemently opposed to it, but it's good for investors 17:35 < kanzure> bdesk: what perspective do you want 17:35 < QuantumG> but ultimately the problem here is that people keep *asking* disabled people what they want. 17:35 < kanzure> "why you shouldn't patent your technology" or "why there shouldn't be patents in the first place" 17:36 < QuantumG> nothing revolutionary was ever made by consulting the customer's needs. 17:36 < bdesk> in my future i'm seeing a lot of intellectual property ways in some form or other. presumably you would think that this is counterproductive, and you might be able to convince me that some other course of action would be preferable. 17:36 < kanzure> ys 17:36 < kanzure> *yes 17:36 < kanzure> very much so 17:37 < bdesk> also i realize that you probably don't want to deliver the rant manually on irc, which i why i thought you might have a link handy. 17:38 < kanzure> i don't have a link handy, and this is weird :( 17:38 < bdesk> for example i think that RMS wants people to work in food services and do their programming freely and in their spare time. 17:39 < kanzure> really? 17:39 < mheld> yeah, I think he's crazy 17:39 < kanzure> that's not my interpretation 17:39 < kanzure> why not just work at a software development house 17:40 < QuantumG> uh huh.. he never said that.. what he said is that people who try to make the argument "I need to set aside my morals or I'll starve" are just being disingenuous 17:41 < kanzure> bdesk: to be fair, if you wanted legal advice from me about startups and companies, using the USPTO to your advantage is one way to win (when it comes to business) and covering your bases 17:41 < kanzure> esp. from a legal perspective 17:41 < kanzure> after all, there's a craploaad of precedent, right? 17:41 < QuantumG> some investors like patents 17:41 < kanzure> *crapload 17:41 < kanzure> lots of investors do :/ 17:41 < QuantumG> they're morons but you have to tolerate morons if you want your money 17:42 < QuantumG> "we want a patent so we can sue someone if they violate it, if you get one I'll give you $1M" "uh huh.. you're aware that it costs *at least* $1M to litigate a patent right?" 17:43 < QuantumG> "and the years we spend waiting for the patent to be granted is time our competitors will have to enter the market first.." 17:45 < kanzure> bdesk: this isn't very helpful http://www.futureofwipo.org/futureofwipodeclaration.html 17:46 < kanzure> but it was from the creative commons (and a bunch of others) to the world intellectual property organization 17:46 < QuantumG> whenever I talk to investment people about patents these days I say: which would you rather be funding: a company with actual customers bringing in revenue or a company waiting for a patent to be issued before they can sign up their first customer? cause the patent system precludes you from the first. 17:49 < mheld> QuantumG: so, one of the companies we might end up going against has a M&A policy of suing companies 17:49 < mheld> so the small companies have to give in 17:49 < bdesk> kanzure: thanks, i'll read that 17:49 < mheld> woah, how does the patent system force you to not have customers? 17:50 -!- bdesk [~argriffi@unaffiliated/bdesk] has left #hplusroadmap [] 17:50 < kanzure> mheld: be careful, QuantumG is sometimes a troll 17:51 < mheld> (I like this channel) 17:53 < kanzure> hm bdesk left :( 17:53 < QuantumG> because you're not allowed to patent anything you've already sold on the market 17:53 < QuantumG> in the US you actually have 1 year from first sale 17:53 < QuantumG> but that's essentially the same thing 17:53 < kanzure> fundamentally a patent is the "right" (?) to exclude others from makng, using whatever was patented 17:54 < kanzure> *making, selling, using 17:54 < kanzure> computing is really hard when "tyyyyyypppppppppppinggggg turnssssss into thsisss" and linux freezes evvvvvvvvvveeeeeeerrryyy fuccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccck there it goes again 17:55 < kanzure> what am i doing wrong 17:57 < kanzure> "Copyright excludes unauthorized copying and related activities -- activities that are triggered by access to the protected work. Such access serves as the trigger or activating event 17:57 < kanzure> for the copyleft license -- copying or adapting the open source code opens the copyist or adapter to a lawsuit unless the copying or adapting is done in accordance with the terms of the license." 17:57 < kanzure> "But patent rights exclude all uses of the claimed invention, even those conducted independently, without any access to the invention. In such cases, the infringing act would not serve to channel the infringerwould into compliance with the terms of the license, as there would be no" 17:57 < kanzure> "knowledge, let alone manifestation of assent, to the license." 17:58 -!- memorex [~durp@c-68-62-138-99.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02 < QuantumG> anyway, wall of text man 18:02 < QuantumG> if you have just the one thing to start a company on, and your investors demand that you get a patent on it, then you should let them know that they'll be paying you to burn cash for quite a while before you can make the first dollar. 18:04 < QuantumG> what I've seen people do is keep their day job while they wait for the patent to be granted, which they've paid for out of their own pocket, and then go try to start a company. 18:04 < QuantumG> if they're stupid they tell the potential investor that they did this and wonder why no-one wants to fund them. hint: your employer may have claim to the patent. 18:05 < kanzure> joseph jackson compiled a bibliography about patents and patent reform and anti-IP-sentiments 18:05 < kanzure> http://freedomofscience.org/?page_id=10 18:12 < kanzure> 24 hours left for biocurious funding 18:12 < kanzure> http://www.kickstarter.com/e/quBS9/projects/1040581998/biocurious-a-hackerspace-for-biotech-the-community 18:25 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-219-224.resnet.ua.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:30 -!- superkuh [hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31 -!- superkuh [hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:17 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-219-224.resnet.ua.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17 -!- memorex_ [~durp@DHCP-219-224.resnet.ua.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:28 -!- shepazu [~schepers@208.52.153.64] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:33 -!- JaredW [~JaredW@219-89-57-76.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37 -!- panax [~panax@cpe-72-185-51-10.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:40 -!- shepazu [~schepers@208.52.153.64] has quit [Quit: shepazu] 20:02 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 20:11 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:17 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-219-224.resnet.ua.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:17 -!- memorex_ [~durp@DHCP-219-224.resnet.ua.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-219-224.resnet.ua.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:29 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:34 < kanzure> http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0921/Stuxnet-malware-is-weapon-out-to-destroy-Iran-s-Bushehr-nuclear-plant?sms_ss=email 20:34 < kanzure> more stuxnet stuff 21:32 -!- Daeken [~Daeken@pa-67-234-63-242.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:34 -!- Daeken [~Daeken@pa-67-234-63-242.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:02 -!- shepazu [~schepers@208.52.153.223] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:09 -!- splicer [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25 -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-26-48.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:45 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-219-224.resnet.ua.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:45 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-219-224.resnet.ua.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:45 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-219-224.resnet.ua.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:46 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-219-224.resnet.ua.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07 -!- splicer [~splicer@92.39.2.55] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:10 -!- CryptoQuick [~CryptoQui@c-174-51-234-80.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:37 -!- nchaimov [nchaimov@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nchaimov] 23:39 -!- dustbin [~chatzilla@adsl-71-145-146-189.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914123505]] 23:43 -!- nchaimov [nchaimov@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu Sep 23 00:00:17 2010