--- Log opened Tue Oct 26 00:00:18 2010 00:29 -!- archels [~neuralnet@541EEC68.cm-5-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:34 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.166.152.152] has quit [Quit: codeshepherd] 00:38 -!- archels [~neuralnet@541EEC68.cm-5-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:01 -!- ToyKeeper [~ToyKeeper@74-95-113-201-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:03 -!- ToyKeeper [~ToyKeeper@74-95-113-201-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:15 -!- jennifer2 [~jennifer@c-67-170-193-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:16 < dbolser> An exciting journal entitled "Recent Patents on Biotechnology (BIOT)" was launched in February 2007. This journal publishes review articles written by experts on recent patents in the field of biotechnology. Please visit the journal's website at http://www.benthameditorial.org/biot for the Editorial Board, first journal issue, abstracts of recent issues and other details. 01:16 < dbolser> If you would like to submit a review article to the journal on an important patent area in biotechnology, then please provide us the title of your proposed article and a tentative date of submission at editorial@pat-biot.org. Moreover in your reply, could you please suggest some specific keywords, keyword phrases related to your topic, so that detailed patents may be sent to you for the preparation of your manuscript. 01:18 < dbolser> This is not a spam message, and has been sent to you because of your eminence in the field. If, however, you do not want to receive any email in future from Journal of Forensic Research, then please reply with remove/unsubscribe 01:18 < dbolser> what a joke 01:20 < memorex> does anyone know how to get past the redirect on this website: http://174.120.81.93/~dietommy/ 01:20 < memorex> it is suspended but I want to archive the site but I can't seem to do it. 01:22 < dbolser> using nc, all I see is " 01:22 < memorex> hm 01:22 < dbolser> google cache? 01:22 < memorex> tried it 01:23 < memorex> the site was only up for a few months, and was not even archived 01:29 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:32 -!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:32 -!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:45 < airMAXmv> thewayback machine? 01:52 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.166.152.152] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:58 < memorex> hm 01:58 < memorex> maybe 01:58 < memorex> but i doubt it 02:02 < memorex> didnt work 02:18 -!- nsh [sbp@59.176.232.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:18 -!- nsh- [sbp@59.176.232.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:29 -!- dachary [~loic@freenode/sponsor/dachary] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:29 < dachary> Utopiah: what does hplus stand for ? 02:30 < Utopiah> Humanity, just better 02:30 < dachary> :-D 02:30 < dachary> H++ 02:30 < Utopiah> yes but too geek for the "general public" 02:31 < dachary> http://graphsynth.com/~bryan/hplus-summit-2009/ is 404 02:31 < dachary> http://heybryan.org/ is timeout for me, can you see it ? 02:31 < Utopiah> yes lot of server issues recently and no way to change the topic (I guess) 02:32 < Utopiah> you can still have a look at http://www.hplusmagazine.com http://www.hplussummit.com/2010/east/ or http://fabien.benetou.fr/Events/HplusSummitHarvard 02:34 < Utopiah> more recently http://transvision2010.wordpress.com 02:37 -!- killall-9 [~paulc@diana.null.ro] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:37 < dachary> Has h+ explored the implication of Free Software an the evolution of mankind ? 02:38 < dachary> s/an th/in the/ 02:39 < Utopiah> well Id say most people here use FLOSS and http://wiki.opencog.org/w/Licenses goes in that direction too but a formal paper on that specifically, not that I know of 02:44 < dachary> I would go as far as to say that the future of humanity is shaped by the software. And therefore by who controls the software and its making. If you assume the current balance between Free Software and proprietary software will not change in the centuries to come, you will not draw the same conclusions as someone assuming that software is not controled (i.e. mostly Free Software). 02:48 < kanzure> dachary: hplus stands for "transhuman" 02:48 < kanzure> dachary: most of the transhumanism supporters are clueless about libre software 02:48 < Utopiah> makes me think of Architecture is Politics (and Politics is Architecture) http://blog.kapor.com/index9cd7.html?p=29 02:48 < dachary> kanzure: thanks :-) 02:50 < dachary> kanzure: this is weird isn't it ? Who controls the software make a big difference when each and every human uses software. 02:50 < dachary> s/make/makes/ 02:52 < Utopiah> Id to think that most people have a hard time dealing with what is not tangible and even more not tangible locks that you get trap into only later on 02:54 < kanzure> fenn: just saw sebastien's messages :/ 02:55 < kanzure> i guess i didn't bother to check #reprap at the same time or something 02:56 < kanzure> dachary: sorry about designfiles.org/heybryan.org being down. the first server was confiscated, the second one died 02:58 < dachary> Utopiah: I get that. 03:01 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: comcast sucks.] 03:05 < kanzure> dachary: for the record, i think exploring open source software and open source hardware in the context of transhumanism would be worthwhile 03:06 < dachary> kanzure: maybe there is a general thread about "dealing with technology owners thru patents / copyright" ? 03:07 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:10 < kanzure> fenn: what is "mmone-jtag-serial-cable"? http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/source/tree/master/ 03:10 < kanzure> dachary: what? are you asking me for information about patents and open source hardware? 03:12 < dachary> kanzure: no :-) I'm asking if there are articles/discussions about the general topic of "who controls the technology" in hplus. Sorry for being unclear. 03:13 -!- elmom [~elmom@hoasnet-fe29dd00-137.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:13 < kanzure> no, everyone who has started those discussions tends to be just fearmonger "omg you assholes are going to keep all teh techz!" 03:13 < kanzure> but there are a few initiatives i'm aware of, such as Creative Commons' Open Patent License 03:14 < kanzure> and the recently renewed interest in open source hardware (although, so far, no legal solutions have been proposed) 03:14 < archels> Solutions to what problem, exactly? 03:15 < mjr> oh there are legal solutions, just not ones that are popular with the powers that be ;] 03:16 < kanzure> mjr: like, get rid of patents? heh 03:19 < kanzure> another idea going around is the idea of instantly making all patents usable for defensive purposes only 03:19 < kanzure> (at this point there isn't enough public comprehension of patents and their negative aspects.. people think they are the best things ever) 03:19 < mjr> like. 03:20 < kanzure> ? 03:20 < mjr> signaling agreement with the proposition 03:20 < kanzure> i just gave you an example 03:21 < kanzure> oh. 03:22 -!- elmom [~elmom@hoasnet-fe29dd00-137.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:22 -!- |Helleshin| [~Helleshin@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:23 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/makerbotmusic 03:24 < kanzure> cncmusic would totally kick the ass out of that 03:24 -!- Helleshin [~Helleshin@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:25 < kanzure> archels: the problem in open source hardware (from a legal perspective) is that, so far, no one has figured out a way to require people to share designs of a manufactured derivative (presumably distributed along with the product itself?) 03:26 * kanzure goes back to sleep for a few hours 03:27 < Utopiah> dachary: like http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Defensive_patent_pools 03:29 < kanzure> fenn: i meant git://projects.qi-hardware.com/mmone-jtag-serial-cable.git 03:29 < dachary> Utopiah: I'm not in favor of this. Mainly because it only works if you're in the top ten patent owner world wide. That being said I'm not against patents when it comes to hardware (i.e. when forces of nature are at work as opposed to software / thoughts ) 03:29 < kanzure> eh 03:30 < kanzure> if you are going to do a defensive patent pool, for open source hardware, you should allow non-patent-holders to sign up, no? 03:30 < kanzure> in general having patents is too high of a barrier to entry anyway 03:30 < kanzure> the whole principal of a patent is the ability to *exclude others* whereas in open source hardware we'd like to explicitly include everyone 03:31 < kanzure> in software, we can just write code and slap on a copyright license (like the GPL) and we're good to go 03:31 < kanzure> copyrights are automatically granted, but patents are not (you have to go register for them, and then there's a first-to-file or first-to-patent thing going on, and your work has to be unique, etc.) 03:32 < kanzure> Creative Commons' suggestion is to just provide some boilerplate text for an "open patent license" or "model patent license" so that license holders can make their patent explicitly shareable under some guidelines.. but again, the patent registration barrier 04:28 -!- kardan [~kardan@78.46.51.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:53 < Jonano> yo 05:01 -!- dachary [~loic@freenode/sponsor/dachary] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02 -!- dachary [~loic@freenode/sponsor/dachary] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:02 < Jonano> www.diybio.biz page rank ? 10 ! 05:03 < Jonano> from 16 to 10, in a week, good. 05:03 < Jonano> When it will be on page 1, the community will grow by itself 05:04 < Jonano> I'm going to buy an article soon for this community on www.constant-content.com about 30$ 05:04 < Jonano> the purpose of this article will be: How to build your own biotech laboratory 05:05 < Jonano> I also need to buy the domain for 10 years, which will cost around 100$ 05:06 < Jonano> all the project will be funded by my other web site, PRETp2p.com 05:06 < Jonano> which has around 5000 members. 05:18 < dachary> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extropianism is H+ ? 05:20 < archels> sure 05:28 < dbolser> patents ... interesting 05:29 < dbolser> I'm trying (half heartedly) to convince a bunch of 'bioprenurs' that patents aren't 'fit for purpose', I never though about the problem of NOT applying a patent 05:29 < dbolser> perhaps you just need to make dam sure you got your prior art in the public domain? 05:29 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.166.152.152] has quit [Quit: codeshepherd] 05:29 < dbolser> I only know from the uk perspective, but any disclosure can invalidate your patent application 05:30 < dbolser> is the problem making the design viral like an copy left / share alike? 05:39 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.166.152.152] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:41 < Utopiah> http://free-books.dontexist.com/book/index.php?md5=dd17ea810c71b1807b0237dd68a6d5da 05:58 -!- Daeken [~daeken@pa-67-234-2-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Daeken] 06:39 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.166.152.152] has quit [Quit: codeshepherd] 06:48 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:52 -!- dachary [~loic@freenode/sponsor/dachary] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:53 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone. 07:10 -!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has quit [Quit: memorex] 07:22 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.166.152.152] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:23 < kanzure> does anyone remember me complaining about this? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1248388728/remade-the-rebirth-of-the-maker-movement 07:23 < kanzure> they have a trailer now: http://vimeo.com/15729047 07:29 < JayDugger> Honestly? no. 07:35 < kanzure> man the russians are crazy ???? ?????? ?????????? 07:41 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:42 < kanzure> why did dachary leave 07:49 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.6.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51 -!- archels [~neuralnet@541EEC68.cm-5-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Changing host] 07:51 -!- archels [~neuralnet@unaffiliated/archels] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:51 < archels> Why does anybody do anything? 07:54 < JayDugger> Unknown. 07:55 < JayDugger> I had my telepathic abilities removed with a red hot coat hanger. Reading minds got to be too much: like gargling sewage morning, noon, and night. 07:55 < JayDugger> So I can't say much about others' motives. :) 07:58 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:58 < Jonano> DIYbio.biz will become the largest site in DIYbio 07:59 < Jonano> with 4 applications installed and ready to use...... 07:59 < Jonano> I'm gonna buy the url for 10 years soon 08:00 < archels> goodluckwiththat 08:00 < archels> wait, this isn't /. 08:00 < Jonano> there are only 55 000 pages about DIYbio this is sad 08:00 < Jonano> on google 08:03 < Jonano> kim jong-il will soon die and kim jong un will start 08:04 < Jonano> as a successof 08:04 < Jonano> r 08:05 < archels> Do you think Kim jr. will do much in transhumanism? Stem cell research? A(G)I projects? 08:06 < Jonano> I think he should invest in anti aging or cryonics 08:06 < Jonano> and put more humans to it 08:07 < Jonano> in cryonics and then after in anti aging. 08:07 < Jonano> when cryonics is perfect, your next goal must be anti aging. 08:07 < Jonano> 1000 people working to it would be good. 08:08 < Jonano> but they are at missile right now 08:08 < Jonano> I'm gonna finance an article essay called: 08:09 < Jonano> "How to start your own biotech laboratory in your garage", for 30$ 08:09 < Jonano> I will use this: www.constant-content.com 08:10 < archels> Yes, you already mentioned that. Do you think you'll get much quality from a generic writer's house on such a specific topic, which (to me) would appear to require quite some know-how? 08:10 < Jonano> or maybe there is a better article title 08:10 < Jonano> archels I don't know, I will select someone first from the site 08:11 < archels> You could always ask kanzure. I bet he'll do it for free. 08:11 < Jonano> there must a way to select people 08:11 < Jonano> if kanzure wants, he is welcome to, I could pay him 08:11 < archels> kanzure: business opportunities opening up!!! 08:12 < archels> mad cash, yo. 08:12 < kanzure> i am so tempted to troll 08:12 < archels> Join me; it's fun. 08:14 < Jonano> I request dignity ! 08:14 < archels> Sorry, you'll have to earn it first. 08:14 < Jonano> you don't know me 08:15 < archels> I've known you for upwards of 100 lines on this channel alone. 08:16 -!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:16 -!- dachary [~loic@freenode/sponsor/dachary] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:16 < archels> 323, to be precise. 08:16 < Jonano> you don't treat people accordingly 08:16 < archels> Admittedly some of those were repeats, but that's your fault. 08:17 < Jonano> a human being is not limited to IRC 08:17 < archels> I was getting to that. 08:17 < Jonano> kanzure do you want the money or not 08:18 < Jonano> because I want to be fast 08:18 < Jonano> and so I will use a web site for that 08:18 < Jonano> I wont beg you 08:19 < Jonano> you see nobody is motivated enough 08:19 < kanzure> pay me $3000. 08:19 < Jonano> you are insulting me 08:19 < kanzure> no 08:20 < Jonano> I will use constant-content.com, because they ask for 30$, so thank you 08:20 < archels> I expect for $3000 you'll get an article that's 100 times better in quality than what you'll get for $30. 08:20 < Jonano> this is logic 08:20 < archels> Common sense, really. 08:20 < Jonano> but I dont trust kanzure intelligence enough for this 08:21 < archels> Yeah, I'm not so sure about that either. I heard he has to log every conversation he has in a textfile, or he'll forget it ever took place. 08:21 -!- shepazu [~schepers@adsl-242-209-126.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:22 < Jonano> it does not surprise me 08:23 < Jonano> asking 3000$ for an article without providing details goes in that direction 08:23 < kanzure> do you want details? 08:23 < archels> Jonano, shouldn't you be providing the details? 08:24 < Jonano> yes, provide it 08:25 < Jonano> kanzure, I dont see you as a friend, but rather as a competitor 08:26 < Jonano> and you are not ready to write an article worth 3000$ 08:27 < Jonano> and I dont have the money, so we are in a bad world 08:27 < Jonano> I'll start small, slowly 08:27 -!- dachary [~loic@freenode/sponsor/dachary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:29 < Jonano> you judge people being not honest, but I can call you a crook now, with your kind of requests 08:29 < Jonano> this is not the way we do business 08:30 < kanzure> you asked me how much i'd ask for, so i told you 08:31 < Jonano> right 08:31 < Jonano> continue to believe in you 08:41 -!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has quit [Quit: memorex] 08:49 -!- Jonano [Jonano@24-230-229-143.tr.cgocable.ca] has quit [] 08:50 < kanzure> hurrah 08:54 -!- archels [~neuralnet@unaffiliated/archels] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58 < Utopiah> ridiculous, mildly entertaining 09:04 -!- Jonano [Jonano@24-230-229-143.tr.cgocable.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:05 -!- archels [~neuralnet@541EEC68.cm-5-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:07 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:10 -!- Juul [~Juul@h55eb1609.dkkoost.sta.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:16 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-221-095.resnet.ua.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:23 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.166.152.152] has quit [Quit: codeshepherd] 09:24 -!- memorex_ [~durp@130.160.251.87] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:26 -!- memorex [~durp@DHCP-221-095.resnet.ua.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:26 -!- memorex_ is now known as memorex 09:29 -!- memorex [~durp@130.160.251.87] has quit [Quit: memorex] 09:42 < Utopiah> http://www.ladyada.net/make/bedazzler/ 09:51 < kanzure> what is this? http://eit.europa.spigit.com/Page/Home 09:54 < kanzure> why are people dumping money into this http://lifeboat.com/ex/donor.dollar.list?background=white 09:54 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:08 < kanzure> http://aws.amazon.com/free/ 10:11 < Utopiah> nice 10:11 < dbolser> yeah, its pretty sweet 10:11 < Utopiah> but how do you qualify as "new user"? 10:15 < kanzure> space mission summary graph http://pics.livejournal.com/mi3ch/pic/00c8zzh7 10:16 < dbolser> kanzure: nice 10:34 -!- killall-9 [~paulc@diana.null.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:38 -!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:45 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:45 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:45 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Client Quit] 10:46 < kanzure> transvision conference is over http://giulioprisco.blogspot.com/2010/10/transvision-2010-october-22-24-2010.html 10:47 -!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.134.228.66] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:56 < kanzure> diybio-bangalore http://chaaraka.blogspot.com/2010/10/diybio-gets-little-more-localbangalore.html 10:58 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.166.153.37] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:59 < kanzure> codeshepherd: just saw your blog post :) 10:59 < kanzure> updated: http://bit.ly/diybionews 11:03 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.166.153.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:07 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:17 -!- shepazu [~schepers@adsl-242-206-152.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:55 < kanzure> http://www.simbiosys.com/ just called me. 11:58 < kanzure> http://cryofreedom.ru/ 12:02 -!- Juul [~Juul@130.225.93.58] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:15 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:19 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:22 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:22 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:23 -!- dbolser [~dmb@bioinformatics.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:23 -!- dbolser [~dmb@bioinformatics.org] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:32 < Utopiah> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOwcDr-A3to#t=57m on uploading 12:33 < Utopiah> Learning Control for Production Machines http://www.lecopro.org 12:56 -!- JaredW [~JaredW@219-89-57-108.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05 -!- memorex [~durp@130.160.182.20] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:09 -!- Juul [~Juul@130.225.93.58] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:12 -!- memorex [~durp@130.160.182.20] has quit [Quit: memorex] 13:20 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:27 -!- JaredW [~JaredW@219-89-57-108.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:34 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-92-98.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:48 -!- flamt [~root@bas5-barrie18-2925347894.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:49 -!- flamt [~root@bas5-barrie18-2925347894.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:50 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:51 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:53 -!- flamt [~root@bas5-barrie18-2925347894.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59 -!- flamt [~root@bas5-barrie18-2925347894.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:02 < kanzure> ben goertzel podcast thing. http://singularityblog.singularitysymposium.com/ben-goertzel-on-singularity-1-on-1/ 14:07 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:08 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:17 -!- Daeken [~daeken@pa-67-234-2-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:37 < kanzure> has anyone seen latex being used on top of blueprints? 14:43 < jrayhawk> As a separate layer? TeX isn't really made for CAD, but I imagine it would be trivial to compile them as layers in a PDF. 14:44 < kanzure> right.. 14:45 -!- Daeken [~daeken@pa-67-234-2-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Daeken] 15:16 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:26 -!- Juul [~Juul@2001:470:dc98:2:218:deff:fe2a:4335] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:35 -!- Juul [~Juul@2001:470:dc98:2:218:deff:fe2a:4335] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:39 < kanzure> QuantumG: this guy is awesome 15:39 < kanzure> QuantumG: <3 15:41 < QuantumG> yeah, we're all fanboys of dennis 15:42 < kanzure> who is this guy 15:42 < kanzure> you claim he has money? doesn't that make him dangerous 15:43 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:43 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:47 < QuantumG> he sold a company to EADS Astrium 15:47 < QuantumG> Orbital Recovery Corporation 15:54 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:55 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:58 < kanzure> jonathan marsden needs to get me the reprap wiki database 15:58 < kanzure> what's the other version of mendel? not tim's but uh.. 15:59 < kanzure> jrayhawk: can we make piny into an aggregator for multiple projects? 15:59 < kanzure> er, uh 15:59 < kanzure> i mean, i'm going to show you a ui shortly 15:59 < kanzure> then you'll yell at me for the amount of work involved 15:59 < kanzure> and then you might say yes 16:03 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04 < kanzure> i think the 'aggregator' part might be a bit much, but arguably it's useful in hardware projects 16:05 < kanzure> i.e. projects that are separately revisioned but an overall wiki needs to be aggregated together 16:05 < kanzure> i guess that's what branches are for. 16:07 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:12 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:14 -!- superkuh [hukrepus@c-24-245-51-56.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:14 -!- superkuh [hukrepus@c-24-245-51-56.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:14 -!- superkuh [hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:21 < jrayhawk> What's their repository model, and how is it supposed to relate to their wiki model? 16:22 < kanzure> reprap has their svn repo, and a giant mediawiki installation that is kind of separated (but it shouldn't be) 16:22 -!- timschmidt [~tim@h75-100-207-56.prrymi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:22 < kanzure> so the idea would be to store the wiki state with whatever individual project 16:22 < kanzure> and move their users away from using mediawiki 16:23 < kanzure> and to some other nebulous platform based on git and project hosting 16:23 < kanzure> (sebastien is really worried about all of his precious users migrating to thingiverse all the time) 16:23 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:23 < timschmidt> I'm not sure killing the wiki (or moving it into git) is the right fix... 16:23 < jrayhawk> why haven't you crushed thingiverse 'neath your overmotivated jackboot 16:24 < kanzure> using mediawiki for project development isn't ideal either :P 16:24 < timschmidt> a nice Step 1: would be to be able suck all the data out of thingiverse and shove it into a git repo. 16:24 < kanzure> timschmidt: got that. 16:24 < timschmidt> ok 16:25 < kanzure> ack where did my thingiverse scraper script go 16:25 < kanzure> jrayhawk: because i want to do it right 16:25 < timschmidt> it might even be worth sharing that with the thingiverse folks. If, in the future, they implement it on their side, we could just 'git clone' the whole site, that would be nice 16:25 < kanzure> but zach has repeatedly expressed no desire to do that 16:25 < timschmidt> ok 16:26 * timschmidt didn't know 16:26 < kanzure> otherwise yes 16:26 < jrayhawk> Anyway, there are a couple aggregation models; I've made 'meta' ikiwikis for a few other folks based on some fancy recursive linking and refreshing. If source information isn't necessarily available, then it's also possible to get ikiwiki to aggregate RSS et al. 16:26 < kanzure> thingiverse scraper http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/master/clients/thingiverse.py 16:26 < timschmidt> Step 2: I think sebastien has pegged, in that we need something like a thingiverse frontend for a backend git repo 16:26 < jrayhawk> Like creating a 'planet' in pure Ikiwiki is actually dirt simple. 16:27 < timschmidt> whether that encompases the wiki as well, I think is optional 16:27 < kanzure> while i agree with you, sebastien is super-concerned about "regular" users being able to use this for some reason 16:27 < kanzure> he's convinced that their drive-by file uploads are of some utility 16:27 < timschmidt> :-/ 16:28 < kanzure> maybe he's totally wrong 16:28 < timschmidt> I think they are... 16:28 < timschmidt> but only peripherally 16:28 < jrayhawk> A low barrier to entry is a good way of getting people involved in communities. 16:28 < kanzure> right now he thinks mediawiki is a low barrier to entry 16:28 < kanzure> although i think he admits thingiverse is even lower (since it's just a file upload button) 16:28 < timschmidt> right 16:29 < timschmidt> side note... it might be interesting to integrate this with the cloudscad stuff 16:29 < kanzure> :P http://sourceforge.net/projects/filebin/ 16:29 < kanzure> yeah.. i have thingiverse's stl2pov scripts if that matters 16:29 < kanzure> but webgl is the new hotness 16:30 < kanzure> so anyway, 16:30 < kanzure> is having a wiki aggregator really necessary here? 16:30 < timschmidt> I don't think so 16:30 < jrayhawk> It would depend on your usage model. 16:30 < kanzure> for instance, let's say you have documentation in your parametric mendel repo 16:30 < timschmidt> yes 16:30 < kanzure> wait, do you? 16:30 < timschmidt> not really 16:30 < timschmidt> if I did, it would live in .txt files, or the scad files themselves 16:31 < kanzure> who is that other person with a mendel version? there's apparently some documentation on the mediawiki install? 16:31 < timschmidt> prusa 16:31 < timschmidt> yes 16:31 < kanzure> prusa, righto. 16:31 < timschmidt> although not much ATM 16:31 < timschmidt> he keeps changing things :) 16:31 < kanzure> does it reallly matter if prusa's docss are on the same mediawiki installation as wiki.reprap.org ? 16:32 < kanzure> i suppose it's nice to see a list of all of the changes everyone is making (but that's just RSS aggregation) 16:32 < kanzure> and it's nice to have one login to viewing all of that content? 16:32 < timschmidt> so this gets into project development workflow 16:32 < timschmidt> which I am all about discussing 16:32 < timschmidt> but none of the core devs are 16:33 < kanzure> maybe i can make it a criteria of http://gadaprize.org/ 16:33 < timschmidt> which, to me, says we do whatever the fuck we want, implement it, and they get to deal with the fallout. 16:33 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:33 < timschmidt> so... 16:34 < timschmidt> my dream workflow 16:34 < kanzure> i'm still not sure who uses wiki.reprap.org or why 16:34 < jrayhawk> i am not sure it's kosher to announce a prize for a thing you're well prepared to claim 16:35 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i meant add it as a criteria point 16:35 < kanzure> the other criteria haven't been met yet :P 16:36 < kanzure> http://reprap.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges 16:36 < timschmidt> I'd like to see maintainers for the various aspects of the project... a doc maintainer, an electronics maintainer, CAD maintainer, etc. Each working within branches of a git repo that periodically gets re-synced. A.k.a. the Linux model. 16:37 -!- jblake [~jblake@host-247-164.pubnet.pdx.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:37 < kanzure> jules is here! stop being productive 16:38 < jblake> i'm not sure if that's a compliment or not 16:38 < kanzure> timschmidt: i'm inclined to say, forget about sebastien, and just do whatever we need to do 16:38 < kanzure> he probably installed the wiki be cause he doesn't understand workflows 16:38 < timschmidt> but for drive-by uploads and wiki edits, ikiwiki + a big file upload button ala thingiverse sounds great 16:39 < kanzure> where should all that stuff go 16:39 < timschmidt> into a /misc_crap folder in the repo 16:39 < timschmidt> :P 16:39 < kanzure> by anonymous committers? 16:40 < timschmidt> actually, now that I think about it, the thingiverse clone should have it's own repo 16:40 < kanzure> for development work? 16:40 < kanzure> that's why i've been thinking of piny 16:40 < timschmidt> no, serious development would happen in the repos of serious developers. 16:40 < timschmidt> :) 16:41 < jrayhawk> re: reprap developers who won't get with the program: keep in mind that the only reason many projects switch to git is because some guy winds up running a git-svn gateway and everyone slowly winds up doing everything through it 16:41 < jrayhawk> like postgres, for instance 16:41 < timschmidt> although I have just started thinking about this... so I might not have the best handle on the perfect situation yet. 16:41 < kanzure> jsmiller was doing that git-svn gateway but i don't know if it's still maintained.. he seemed to give up? 16:42 < jrayhawk> it's not a "hey can we migrate to git", it's "over half of this community has already migrated to git, why do we still support SVN" 16:42 < timschmidt> reprap is already in that situation 16:42 < jrayhawk> jsmiller wanted permission 16:42 < kanzure> jsmiller isn't a core developer, he was doing a drive-by git-svn gateway ;) 16:42 < timschmidt> only the folks running reprap SVN have stuffed everything _and_ the kitchen sink into it 16:43 < kanzure> except the mediawiki database 16:43 < kanzure> so.. one giant .git for reprap, or multiple sub-projects on this github/thingiverse platform? 16:43 < timschmidt> repsnapper was the same way. We ditched the 1Gb+ svn repo and moved to a 4Mb git repo 16:43 < timschmidt> kanzure: thinking about that 16:44 < kanzure> there are certainly projects *for* reprap that should be in separate repos 16:44 < timschmidt> like? 16:44 < jblake> Separate git repos is almost certainly preferable unless there's a large degree of interconnectedness; it's a pity that git submodules are sort of terrible. 16:44 < kanzure> uh i mean 3d objects 16:44 < timschmidt> ah 16:45 < kanzure> so fork out the firmware into a separate repo? yes/no? 16:45 < timschmidt> well right. I think 'printable objects' should be it's own repo 16:45 < kanzure> my gut instinct is yes but everyone i've talked with is HORRIFIED by a separate firmware repo 16:45 < jrayhawk> Well, depends on your idea of 'separate'. I think linux-2.6 is a better model than xorg. 16:45 < timschmidt> ala thingiverse 16:46 < kanzure> my idea of separate is "Congratulations, you have a reprap-like frame with equipment. Now choose your firmware, you have xyz release for this one, or this, or .." 16:46 < timschmidt> sure 16:46 < kanzure> yeah this is stupid. if firmware is separated out, the firmware documentation should be in the firmware repo 16:46 < kanzure> screw wiki aggregators 16:46 < timschmidt> right 16:47 -!- mccoyn [~mccoyn@76-204-6-117.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:47 < timschmidt> after thinking about it a bit, I think many small repos is the way to go. 16:48 < kanzure> so joe/jules, how can we hammer piny into this? 16:48 < timschmidt> kanzure: mccoyn is a fellow reprap dev. He's designed the electronics and firmware I use. 16:48 < mccoyn> Hullo 16:48 < kanzure> logs: http://gnusha.org/logs/2010-10-26.log 16:49 * kanzure will bbl (family happens to be down the street..) 16:49 < kanzure> hint: don't tell them where you live 16:50 < timschmidt> mccoyn: basically we're (kanzure, sebastien, myself, and lots of others apparently) are re-imagining the reprap dev process... from workflow to wiki to git to thingiverse 16:50 < jblake> We'll probably do the best work on piny when we're given detailed scripts of desired-user-interactions. So, tell us what you want piny to do to make this work for you. 16:50 < jrayhawk> Sounds like you want to things, one of them being a wiki-like interface to documentation and possibly issue tracking, and the other is a means of accepting new files semi-anonymously. 16:50 < jrayhawk> s/to things/two things 16:50 < timschmidt> jrayhawk: sounds correct 16:52 < timschmidt> I'm not sure we need to do our own git hosting though... 16:52 < timschmidt> what's wrong with github? 16:53 < jrayhawk> The semi-anonymous file submission is a complicated issue. It'd depend on what sort of person you're targetting. Technical people like either discussing patchsets on mailing lists or setting up a cloned repo for those changes to be shared, but nontechnical people would probably be happiest with 'upload one or more files for the world to look at', which requires vastly more infrastructure work. 16:53 < timschmidt> jrayhawk: we're talking about the second case 16:55 < jrayhawk> The piny/ikiwki model is probably not useful for that, so we'd be effectively starting from scratch in terms of design and architecture. 16:55 < timschmidt> :-/ 16:55 < jrayhawk> So the question becomes 'what do producers want to happen' and 'what do consumers want to happen' 16:55 < jrayhawk> Consumers being either collaborators or passive users. 16:56 < jblake> I could imagine a separate piny repo for random uploads that gets submoduled in the main repo, which would effectively reduce the kinds of damage that random uploaders could do. 16:56 < timschmidt> the random uploads can be their own repo without any submoduling... 16:56 < jrayhawk> Well, the real question is 'why have it be in a git repo at all' at that point. 16:56 < timschmidt> it can be completely separate 16:57 < jblake> Joe: Fair enough. 16:57 < jblake> Tim: The submodule would just be an ease-of-use step for the "regular" users. 16:59 < jrayhawk> Hmm. I guess if we just want a low-barrier-to-entry packaging system, forcing users into git repos might not be a bad idea. We'd just have a cgi script that takes one or more files, possibly in containers (tar, zip, rar, etc.) and unpacks them and commits them naively, and then make that git repo available as either a git repo or as a zip or tar.gz snapshot. 17:00 < jrayhawk> Users have the option of either using that cgi or git directly. 17:00 < timschmidt> jrayhawk: exactly 17:01 < timschmidt> that way grabbing > a handful of files doesn't require scraping the website. 17:01 < timschmidt> as it currently does with thingiverse 17:02 < jrayhawk> But it'd probably be important to establish what-all this packaging system would be for. There's a strong risk that we'd wind up reimplementing a grown-up packaging system in a hacky, awful way. 17:02 < jblake> remember to store everything in ar archives 17:03 < jrayhawk> haha 17:04 < timschmidt> I don't think anything more sophisticated than 'let me clone the entire site' is necessary 17:04 < timschmidt> so maybe git isn't the best way to do that 17:04 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-92-98.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Quit: uniqanomaly] 17:04 < jrayhawk> Well, it'd be tons and tons of tiny git repos. 17:05 < jrayhawk> We'd be able to have an aggregator that at least lists changes without too much trouble. 17:05 < timschmidt> why not one big one? 17:05 < jblake> Cloning giant repos really sucks for people who only want to work on one thing. 17:05 < timschmidt> currently thingiverse has no support at all for tracking changes 17:06 < jrayhawk> Dealing with subdirectory-specific user authorization is not particularly workable. 17:06 < jblake> Small repos is also nice because it turns out that git bundles are a nice way to ship around patchsets or packages as single files. 17:06 < timschmidt> true 17:06 < jblake> At least, among git users. 17:08 < jrayhawk> timschmidt: have you played with Ikiwiki before? 17:08 < timschmidt> I've looked at it 17:12 < jrayhawk> Hmm. I guess we can probably do all that with less than 20 hours work. 17:12 < timschmidt> hahaha 17:13 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:14 < kanzure> the way i was doing anonymous uploads was a new branch... meh. 17:22 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:42 < kanzure> don't let me be the party pooper 17:44 < jrayhawk> It's not particularly easy to do branch-specific authorization, either. 17:46 < kanzure> no, i was thinking one-time created branches by anonymous users or something, then the repo maintainer gets to do whatever with those, but this is a bad architecture overall 17:48 < kanzure> anyway, thingiverse doesn't have random uploaders, everyone registers 17:48 < kanzure> same with github 17:48 < kanzure> if they can't be bothered to register, then they should just email me/someone the files to deal with 17:48 < kanzure> jrayhawk: jules was saying something would require a lot of re-architecting, does that still hold? 17:49 < jblake> what was i saying needed rearchitecting? 17:49 < kanzure> piny 17:49 < jblake> oh that's not really what i meant 17:49 < kanzure> jrayhawk: also "what this packaging system is for"- sounds like skdb to me (just, without the metadata / useful bits in place yet) 17:50 < jblake> piny is open to getting new features and filling new needs; we just would need to know with high precision what usecases are desired 17:50 < kanzure> sure, ok. 17:52 < kanzure> that's actually kind of hard to give :) 17:54 < kanzure> cgit/ikiwiki don't seem to be integrated much? 17:54 < jrayhawk> not particularly. I intend to work on that. 17:54 < kanzure> possibly something about a main piny-view-of-everything-hosted-here, or whatever- a sense of "Hey, there are lots of different projects in this community" accessible through the same site 17:55 < kanzure> github doesn't actually have that (they just do some social networking bullshit and RSS aggregation) 17:55 < kanzure> thingiverse.com does 17:55 < jrayhawk> We don't really need much architecture, here. The main new feature would be a completely independant cgi that does something like 'either create new repo or clone existing one, take multipart upload, unpack anything that needs unpacking, shove in repo, push to bare repo owned by user uploading, redirect user there', which isn't too hard. 17:55 < jblake> i sort of want a better hierarchy so you can group projects in broad categories 17:56 < jrayhawk> We already have most of the infrastructure to make that happen. 17:56 < jrayhawk> Convincing Jules or somebody else to make web interfaces for some of this crap is going to be hard. 17:56 < jrayhawk> It will have to involve knives. 17:57 < kanzure> turns out i have a web ui done for this 17:57 < kanzure> HOW CONVENIENT 17:57 < timschmidt> jrayhawk: that sounds about right 17:57 < jblake> knives do make an excellent ui 17:57 < jrayhawk> I'm going to head off to eat. 17:58 -!- jblake [~jblake@host-247-164.pubnet.pdx.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:58 < kanzure> damn you jules 17:59 < kanzure> what's his issue with waiting for us to get done 17:59 < timschmidt> kanzure: where is this web ui? 17:59 < kanzure> this ui was done by a friend who was making a thingiverse killer more than a year ago 17:59 < kanzure> he kinda specializes in consumer-friendly webapps 17:59 < timschmidt> ok 18:00 < kanzure> i'm trying to get him to email me the screenshots atm 18:00 < kanzure> but anyway.. 18:01 < kanzure> jrayhawk: there seems to be a need for some way to manage the "main" piny site for all the hosted repos on the site, is this implemented yet? 18:03 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:10 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.134.228.66] has quit [Quit: mheld] 18:13 < kanzure> elevenarms' thingiverse clone.. thing 18:13 < kanzure> http://github.com/elevenarms/wrkbench/ 18:13 < kanzure> (he just made it non-private) 18:18 < kanzure> gee i wish required gems were written down 18:34 -!- Juul [~Juul@h55eb1609.dkkoost.sta.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:40 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:51 -!- Juul [~Juul@h55eb1609.dkkoost.sta.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:59 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:01 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:03 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:05 -!- timothyschmidt [~tim@h75-100-207-56.prrymi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:05 < timothyschmidt> ok, just got done talking with sebastien 19:05 < kanzure> what's up 19:06 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:06 -!- mheld_ is now known as mheld 19:06 < timothyschmidt> not too much, just clarified my idea of what he was looking for. 19:06 < kanzure> will you type some notes out? 19:06 < timothyschmidt> definitely 19:07 < kanzure> let's hear it :) 19:07 < timothyschmidt> he said he'd email me with his notes shortly 19:07 < timothyschmidt> I will flesh them out a lot 19:07 < kanzure> haha he says that all the time but never does 19:07 -!- mccoyn [~mccoyn@76-204-6-117.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has left #hplusroadmap [] 19:07 < timothyschmidt> :) 19:07 < timothyschmidt> ok, give me a second to unload this tray of parts, and I'll start typing 19:08 * timothyschmidt has 10 repraps worth of parts in his house at the moment 19:09 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:09 < kanzure> do you name your repraps? 19:10 < timothyschmidt> after Dickens characters 19:10 < timothyschmidt> I'm unloading Nicholas Nickelbot at the moment 19:10 < timothyschmidt> :D 19:11 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:11 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13 < timothyschmidt> ok, unloaded 19:15 < timothyschmidt> alright... sebastien's primary concern (and I agree with him) is that for all the current workflows - git, driveby uploads, wiki, etc - there is no central clearinghouse, no single point of convergence, no watercooler. So development that happens here doesn't get noticed there, and vice versa. 19:15 < kanzure> having both mailing lists and forums doesn't quite help 19:16 < timothyschmidt> agreed 19:16 < timothyschmidt> but the point stands 19:16 < timothyschmidt> Thingiverse solves this by posting every new file with a big picture on the front page 19:16 < kanzure> (well, there's mail2forum gateways, but that wouldn't help) 19:16 < timothyschmidt> reprap.org doesn't (yet) 19:17 < kanzure> was that all 19:18 < timothyschmidt> we have a super-diverse group of users / developers, so we can't exactly ask everyone to do all their development in git. Some people who may be geniuses also happen to be 50 year old machinists who can't handle CLI. 19:18 < timothyschmidt> that was the gist of it 19:18 < timothyschmidt> there's certainly room for a LOT of improvement in the wiki situation 19:19 < timothyschmidt> but mostly it's a lack of a feedback loop that's killing us 19:19 < kanzure> web guis handle git just fine 19:19 < timothyschmidt> right. 19:19 < timothyschmidt> So we need that 19:19 < kanzure> although github isn't a good example of that 19:19 < kanzure> i mean, in terms of editing files over a web interface 19:20 < timothyschmidt> right 19:20 < timothyschmidt> make sense? 19:21 < kanzure> sure. 19:23 < timothyschmidt> something like the current blog aggregator that also inclued git commits from all the various repos, thingiverse / reprap.org / our thingiverse killer part uploads, wiki edits, etc. would be amazing 19:23 < kanzure> ok. but would you be satisfied with an rss aggregator? 19:28 < timothyschmidt> I think it would be a big step in the right direction... but there's room for a lot more 19:28 < timothyschmidt> what do you want to get out of this? 19:28 < timothyschmidt> sebastien's ready to dump mediawiki for git / ikiwiki / skdb 19:28 < timothyschmidt> but we still need the aggregation 19:28 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:33 < kanzure> timothyschmidt: i want an open source hardware project hosting site that doesn't suck and is architectured well 19:34 < timothyschmidt> ok, like sf.net (without the massive amounts of suck) for hardware / software projects 19:34 < timothyschmidt> ? 19:35 < kanzure> primarily for hardware projects, software development infrastructure is pretty well developed 19:35 < jrayhawk> "like sf.net but without the suck" is exactly the project description for piny 19:35 < kanzure> "like gitorious without the suck" is the new "like sf.net" 19:35 < kanzure> (not really) 19:36 < timothyschmidt> ok, so reprap would be essentially the test case for this site? 19:36 < jrayhawk> Partially. 19:36 < kanzure> reprap is an ecosystem of open source hardware projects (unless we're talking about the svn repo proper) 19:36 < kanzure> (and even then it's a mini-ecosystem) 19:37 < timothyschmidt> right 19:37 -!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:38 < kanzure> i also think that the reprap community is presently not well served the way things are 19:38 < kanzure> (duh) 19:38 < timothyschmidt> right 19:38 < kanzure> jrayhawk: see the questions from just after you left for eats 19:39 < timothyschmidt> OK, I will take a look at piny tonight, and write up my thoughts with some more detail, about what extra features we may or may not need, specific user interaction cases, etc. 19:39 < timothyschmidt> Detailed report for you guys tomorrow 19:39 < kanzure> fyi http://piny.be/piny-web/ 19:39 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i should have called it pinycad 19:39 < kanzure> just to piss off the tinycad guy 19:39 < timothyschmidt> all I get is: Holy Moses! 19:39 < jrayhawk> that's not a particularly useful site; better details are http://piny.be/piny-code/architecture/needed_user_facing_infrastructure/ 19:40 < kanzure> timothyschmidt: one of the links goes to https://secure.piny.be/cgit/piny-web.git/ 19:40 < timothyschmidt> ok 19:40 < jrayhawk> you can feel free to play around with it 19:40 < timothyschmidt> awesome 19:40 < jrayhawk> kanzure: yes, there's a cursory central configuration management system, now. 19:41 < kanzure> jrayhawk: oh, btw, what about the "playing nicely with pre-existing repos" 19:41 < kanzure> ok cool 19:41 < kanzure> but does that include a public-facing centralized web page .. thing? 19:41 < jrayhawk> 'pinyconfig' allows you to tweak denynonfastforwards so you can overwrite whatever crap i shove in there as an initial commit. 19:41 < jrayhawk> I don't really understand the question. 19:41 < kanzure> i guess having a "central all-those-darn-repos webpage" on by default would realy suck 19:42 < kanzure> well. 19:42 < kanzure> *really 19:42 < kanzure> uh. 19:42 < kanzure> http://thingiverse.com/ 19:42 < kanzure> imagine each of those "things" are a separate git repo 19:42 < jrayhawk> Okay. So you'd want a way of categorizing and indexing those? 19:42 < kanzure> this frontpage is an index that needs to be built (preferably dynamically..) 19:43 < jrayhawk> That's certainly doable. 19:43 < kanzure> some way of saying "hello public, here's an overview of what is on this server" 19:43 < timothyschmidt> that would be asesome 19:43 < timothyschmidt> awesome even 19:43 < kanzure> i guess this doesn't need to be piny-specific 19:43 < kanzure> but it feels like it is? 19:43 < jrayhawk> Doesn't matter either way to me. 19:43 < kanzure> obviously i'd throw in an rss aggregator on the front page, if there was a front page like that 19:44 < kanzure> which would carry over the html template to the sub-repos or something, whenever you get arouund tooooooo iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikwiki/cgit integration 19:44 < kanzure> fuck this 19:44 < kanzure> why can't my keyboard problems be fixed already 19:44 < jrayhawk> perhaps you should replace your keyboard? 19:44 < timothyschmidt> lol 19:45 < QuantumG> probably just clean it 19:45 < timothyschmidt> I can't agree more, a thingiverse-style front page + rss would be an amazing start at what we need 19:46 < kanzure> it's not a dirt issue, something is wrong with my kernel (or something) 19:47 < kanzure> jrayhawk: if that "hello world, here's what's on this site" page was a part of piny, how would that go? 19:50 < jrayhawk> Does weird stuff show up in dmesg when you have these keyboard problems? 19:50 < jrayhawk> I've seen screwy stuff happen with the key repeat rate when hotplugging ps/2 keyboards before. 19:50 < jrayhawk> It might be that you have a loose connection somewhere. 19:51 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:52 < jrayhawk> Re: front page: it'd probably be a cron-generated page with both a project index and an aggregated list of recent changes until the project list gets too large. 19:53 < jrayhawk> Not sure if I should aggregate Ikiwiki changes or git changes. 19:53 < jrayhawk> They're strictly one and the same at the moment, but I would like to actually support Ikiwiki subdirectories soon. 19:55 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:56 < jrayhawk> re: keyboard: it'd probably be the main connector if anything, so you might just want to yank that out, clean, and reseat it. 19:57 < jrayhawk> well, if it's easy. 19:58 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:02 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:05 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:07 < kanzure> jrayhawk: in dmesg "rtl8192_hw_wakeup(): RF Change in progress! schedule wake up task again" shows up >_< 20:08 < kanzure> jrayhawk: maybe instead of a cron-generated page it should be a separate "main.git" repo or something which defines the layout for the overall site, front page, other things like this? 20:09 < jrayhawk> That'd be fine, too. I can even add you to that repo if you want to start mucking about. 20:09 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:10 < jrayhawk> well, could, if you were to make an account 20:10 < kanzure> not sure what i'd do 20:10 < jrayhawk> mister no-account 20:11 < kanzure> seems like this is something that would be hard-coded into piny, but that feels icky. 20:11 < kanzure> if it wasn't hardcoded, how would someone install/enable "rss aggregator on default index page" :P 20:12 < jrayhawk> Well, that's what the cron script was for. 20:12 < kanzure> why not just re-generate on each page load :P 20:12 < kanzure> you're really against this aren't you 20:13 < jrayhawk> I would prefer to have an at least slightly scalable solution. 20:13 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13 < kanzure> you could probably convince me, but others would think it's absurd to use cron here 20:13 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:14 < jrayhawk> I care slightly about *what* they think I should implement. I do not care what they think about *how* I implement it. 20:17 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:18 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:22 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:36 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:37 < kanzure> timschmidt: wow, what? 20:38 < kanzure> sebastien actually posted the notes 20:38 < kanzure> (to om) 20:39 < timschmidt> yup 20:39 < timschmidt> I'm magical 20:39 < timschmidt> :P 20:39 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/t/b6b858fff3505f5b 20:40 < timschmidt> yup. he cc'd me 20:46 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:53 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:56 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:58 < kanzure> hi joshcryer 20:58 < joshcryer> HEy 20:59 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:59 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: LETTERS JOURNAL] 21:03 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:05 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:05 -!- mheld_ is now known as mheld 21:18 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:18 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18 -!- mheld_ is now known as mheld 21:22 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:32 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:14 -!- niftyzero1 [~miron@dsl081-070-214.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22 -!- clever_ [~clever@2001:470:1d:19a:205:5dff:feff:f422] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:30 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:52 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.166.152.152] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:53 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.6.161] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:00 -!- niftyzero1 [~miron@dsl081-070-214.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:09 -!- nchaimov [nchaimov@c-71-237-208-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nchaimov] 23:22 -!- nchaimov [nchaimov@c-71-59-157-3.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:44 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:47 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:53 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:54 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.186.164.221] has joined #hplusroadmap --- Log closed Wed Oct 27 00:00:16 2010