--- Log opened Mon Nov 15 00:00:08 2010
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02:03 < dbolser> The guy who wants the 3d printer suggested we buy this: http://botmill.com/3D-Printers/Assembled-Mendel-with-Motors-and-Electronics/prod_45.html
02:03 < dbolser> I was thinking we'd try a makerbot
02:03 < dbolser> anyone got an opinion?
02:04 < dbolser> $1545.00 seems quite a lot... am I just out of touch?
02:09 < dbolser> I was thinking for ages (just haveing looked at the kinekt vid) that a two webcam system that sends a 'face on' view of speaker down the wires would be a big seller
02:10 < dbolser> any sci-fi you watch shows video phone images of people looking into the camera
02:10 < dbolser> any skype user knows you see an image of someone looking somewhere else
02:10 < dbolser> a double webcam would reconstruct the face on view and use that
02:11 < dbolser> simple, but inevitable
02:12 < dbolser> amazing what garbage pple read http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=demonic-device-converts-inform
02:14 < dbolser> The experiment does not actually violate the second law of thermodynamics, because in the system as a whole, energy must be consumed by the equipment
02:14 < dbolser> Orly!
02:14 < dbolser> what a surprise!
02:18 < dbolser> ok, ignore me except my first question, botmill vs. makerbot?
02:25 < Utopiah> Cluster GPU Instances http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/#instance
03:35 < archels> dbolser: Shave off $600 by assembling it yourself.
03:37 < archels> er, that one doesn't come with motors. still $380 less.
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03:39 < archels> Funny that reprap.org lists the total material price at $520.
03:40 < archels> I was just checking the build are for Reprap vs. Makerbot.
03:41 < archels> Reprap can do 200 mm (W) x 200 mm (D) x 140 mm (H)
03:41 < archels> Makerbot The build area is 100mm x 100mm and about 130mm tall.
03:41 < archels> also the engineering/build quality of the Reprap looks superior to that of the Makerbot.
03:42 < archels> s/Reprap/Mendel
03:45 < dbolser> hmm
03:45 < dbolser> ty archels 
03:47 < archels> np
03:47 < archels> By the way, isn't there a channel on this network for 3D printing?
03:48 < archels> (not suggesting that your question was out of place, but you might be able to get more info there)
04:04 < phryk> archels: Did you get to play with one?
04:07 < archels> I saw a Makerbot get screwed up by RF once, that's about it. I have some homebrew CNC experience though.
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05:03 < phryk> Ah okay
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05:03 < phryk> last year i saw some of the results of homebrew 3d printers
05:03 < phryk> wasn't all that convincing yet
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05:11  * dbolser hunts the channel listing
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05:22 < kanzure> dbolser: there's also #reprap
05:23 < kanzure> archels: once you play with the real deal (CNC) after that plastic printing loses its magic :P
05:25 < killall-9> kanzure: it has its uses although it's not an universal solution
05:26 < kanzure> well, people keep calling it a universal solution
05:28 < archels> kanzure: 3D printing is not much more than a toy at this point, but of course it holds the promise of being much more useful than CNC milling.
05:29 < archels> So yes, getting actually useful precision parts from a CNC mill will make the plastic fidgeting lose its magic. :)
05:32 < killall-9> milling a large and complex part is no fun either
05:33 < killall-9> especially when you would need to get rid of 95% of the raw material
05:34 < killall-9> i have a bits from bytes reprap
05:35 < killall-9> not very happy with it (especially the software sucks)
05:37 < archels> Getting rid of 95% of the material sounds like maybe you should have decomposed it into a number of separate parts. :)
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05:39 < killall-9> archels: that may be impractical for many parts, especially the thin ones that cannot be easily assembled or properly glued together
05:40 < killall-9> for those 3d printing offers an alternative to the way too expensive injection
05:41 < killall-9> and the technologies can be combined - print a rough 3d shape and the mill it if/where/when needed
05:42 < killall-9> or print plastic around a tougher and more precise substrate
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07:41 < kanzure> nanomanufacturing dvd http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-item.pl?DV06PUB11&2&SME
07:41 < kanzure> "- NanoEngineer-1, the world's first nanomechanical modeling software"
07:41 < kanzure> "- Interviews with James Von Ehr, Tihamer Toth-Fejel, Sivaram Arepalli and more"
07:42 < kanzure> huh.. foresight institute sponsored a society of manufacturing engineers event? 
07:42 < kanzure> http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-event.pl?--001784-000007-nhome--SME-
07:54 < dbolser> kanzure: is that open source?
07:54 < dbolser> it wants me to login
07:55 < dbolser> nanoengineer-1
07:59 < kanzure> nanoengineer-1 is, yes
07:59 < kanzure> http://nanoengineer-1.com/snapshots/NanoEngineer-1_Suite_v1.1.1.12.tar.gz
07:59 < kanzure> it's open source but they don't share their dev repo
08:00 < dbolser> ic
08:00 < dbolser> ty
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10:30 < kanzure> not much content on here yet.. http://blog.diybiome.org/2010/11/11/maine-diybio-group-blog/
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11:02 < kanzure> hi epitron_ 
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11:58 < kanzure> rubber band gear mechanism http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4775
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12:50 < kanzure> man, project landing pages suck in open source hardware
12:50 < kanzure> http://www.letsevo.com/projects/emoped
12:50 < kanzure> http://harkopen.com/projects/emoped-open-source-motorcycle-frame
12:50 < kanzure> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4775
12:50 < kanzure> shapeways/ponoko is even worse
12:50 < kanzure> ponoko's project page is mostly a giant picture
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13:21 < kanzure> hi cluckj 
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13:24 < industromatic> Hi knazure
13:24 < industromatic> kanzure
13:25 < kanzure> hi industromatic 
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13:39 < industromatic> I'm going to try adding a feature to Heekspython.  Got some direction from Dan H.
13:44 < kanzure> yeah i saw the email
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13:55 < industromatic> I might have a python question for you in a bit.
13:58 < cluckj> hey kanzure 
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14:23 < kanzure> uh oh
14:23 < kanzure> well that's disasterous
14:23 < kanzure> i had a 30min phone call with someone and i thought i knew who they were
14:23 < kanzure> but it turns out they are someone totally different
14:26 < industromatic> Hasn't ever happened to me yet.  Have had some wwrong takes on people face to face for a minute or two.  Can see how phone could go on more.
14:28 < industromatic> What is the syntax in this statement meaning?
14:28 < industromatic> virtual HeeksObj* NewCylinderEx(const double*pos, const double* dir, double r, double h);
14:28 < industromatic> The * and spaces... not sure what that means... or is it a mistake built into HeeksCAD?
14:28 < kanzure> pointers
14:29 < kanzure> http://www.tek-tips.com/faqs.cfm?fid=2913
14:29 < industromatic> What does double*pos all run together mean?  pos is a vector pos[3].
14:31 < kanzure> C++ ignores whitespaces
14:31 < kanzure> whitespace is commonly included for human readability
14:32 < kanzure> actually that link i gave you sucks
14:32 < kanzure> http://linuxconfig.org/c-understanding-pointers
14:33 < industromatic> Oh, so the variations in the file I started editing and adding to are accidental and not affecting the code meaning...
14:33 < industromatic> I've done some pointer uses in straight C.  No C++  exp. yet.
14:34 < kanzure> if i was writing that line, i would change "const double*pos," to "const double* pos," because of consistency/whitespace
14:36 < industromatic> yeah, I did that.  Some other lines in HeeksCADInterface.cpp are run together and I'm leaving them.
14:36 < industromatic> compiling to see if I was able to edit three files and not trip.
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15:21 < industromatic> Nope. several guesses all error with mismatch to function.  Dan's hints were too cryptic for me.
15:21 < industromatic> Wanna see what I'm talking about?  
15:22 < kanzure> paste and i'll see what i can do
15:23 < industromatic> OK  to pastebin.  In a minute.
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15:31 < industromatic>  HeeksCADInterface.cpp      http://pastebin.ca/1992744
15:31 < industromatic> HeeksCADInterface.h           http://pastebin.ca/1992745
15:31 < industromatic> PythonInterface.cpp             http://pastebin.ca/1992749
15:31 < kanzure> and the errors?
15:32 < industromatic>  error: no matching function for call to 'gp_Ax2::gp_Ax2(gp_Pnt, const double*&)'
15:32 < industromatic> is the compiler message.
15:32 < industromatic>  note: candidates are: gp_Ax2::gp_Ax2(const gp_Pnt&, const gp_Dir&)
15:32 < industromatic> gp_Ax2.lxx:13: note:                 gp_Ax2::gp_Ax2(const gp_Pnt&, const gp_Dir&, const gp_Dir&)
15:32 < industromatic> gp_Ax2.lxx:7: note:                 gp_Ax2::gp_Ax2()
15:34 < industromatic> In  HeeksCADInterface.cpp  I commented out   
15:34 < industromatic> //	gp_Dir up(dir);
15:34 < industromatic> thinking dir was a dir[3] vector and it didn't need to be calculated, just put in.
15:34 < industromatic> Lots of guessing.
15:36 < industromatic> dir is to contain a direction, as in x,y,z = 0,0,1 for up, 0,1,0 for XZtop  1,0,0 for YZright
15:36 < kanzure> this is a pointer error.
15:36 < industromatic> OK.  What's missing?
15:37 < industromatic> Do I need to find gp_Ax2?
15:38 < industromatic> Dan said I should change HeeksCADInterface.cpp and HeeksCADInterface.h and the python file, so I assumed it was possible without going deeper into the C++
15:38 < industromatic> no one's on cam
15:39 < kanzure> it's saying you passed it a const double *&, and it just wanted a const gp_Dir&
15:39 < industromatic> irc://freenode/cam that is
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15:57 < industromatic> OK, I tried before using  gp_Dir up(dir);  then putting up in as the original and that errors too.   I'll redo  andput up the details.
15:59 < industromatic> What do you think the statement      	gp_Dir up(dir);  does?
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16:28 < kanzure> andrew back chatting with oomlaut about open source hardware  http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/outriders/2010/11/being_digital.shtml
16:28 < kanzure> oomlout
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16:56 < kanzure> industromatic: fix it?
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17:17 < industromatic> No.   error: no matching function for call to 'gp_Dir::gp_Dir(const double*&)'
17:17 < industromatic> /usr/include/opencascade/gp_Dir.lxx:36: note: candidates are: gp_Dir::gp_Dir(Standard_Real, Standard_Real, Standard_Real)
17:17 < industromatic> So same type mismatch.  I guess dir doesn't need to be a vector.  I must have misunderstood Dan H.
17:17 < industromatic> dir can just be a single constant passed in rather than the static gp_Dir up(0,0,1);  I got hung up seeing the (0,0,1).
17:17 < industromatic> So, trying that now.
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17:22 < industromatic> There's not enough info.     gp_Dir up(0,0,1)  must encode the six directions as a number somehow,
17:22 < industromatic> and I don't know how.  giving a vector for direction makes sense.  Having to know a code for it is too much to ask unless the tool tips show you the name:value pairs to use...   Hmmm....
17:22 < industromatic> What's the syntax of this line mean?
17:22 < industromatic> 	gp_Dir up(0,0,1);
17:24 < industromatic> I read it as set gp_Dir  to value of  up(dir)
17:25 < industromatic> Also execute up(), put its value in  up
17:26 < industromatic> so up used in next line is a single variable
17:28 < kanzure> SpaceClaim/PTC and an open xml format for CAD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4DzK258y6g (i haven't watched it yet, but if it's 3dxml i'm going to roll my eyes)
17:28 < industromatic> So, what I need to put in up(a,b,c) is probably (value at location pointed to by dir, value at location+1 pointed to by dir, value at location+2 pointed to by dir)
17:28 < kanzure> hmm
17:29 < kanzure> what is up
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17:29 < kanzure> my_gp_Dir = gp_Dir(0,0,1);
17:29 < industromatic> Then  	gp_Dir up(a,b,c)  will go look up the right code for a direction.
17:29 < kanzure> oops, i meant new gp_Dir(0,0,1);
17:30 < industromatic> This is the original:
17:30 < industromatic> HeeksObj* CHeeksCADInterface::NewCylinder(const double* c, double r, double h)
17:30 < industromatic> {
17:30 < industromatic> 	gp_Dir up(0,0,1);
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17:31 < industromatic> up is probably a code for a direction
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17:41 < kanzure> hm
17:42 < industromatic> I'm trying one more interpretation assuming it all can be done in HeeksCADInterface
17:43 < industromatic> 	return new CCylinder(gp_Ax2(make_point(pos),dir),r,h,_T("Cylinder"),wxGetApp().current_color, 1.0f);
17:43 < industromatic> Trying that reasoning pos is a pointer and IT works fine, sooo.... dir is a pointer to 3 locations
17:44 < industromatic> Hmmm.... I think that already failed before....
17:44 < cluckj> kanzure, do you know anyone who is doing diy water quality testing using either diy electronic or diy chemistry?
17:45 < industromatic> Nope.
17:45 < industromatic> error: no matching function for call to 'gp_Ax2::gp_Ax2(gp_Pnt, const double*&)'
17:45 < industromatic> /usr/include/opencascade/gp_Ax2.hxx:122: note: candidates are: gp_Ax2::gp_Ax2(const gp_Pnt&, const gp_Dir&)
17:45 < kanzure> diybio at igem http://biologigaragen.org/?p=55
17:45 < kanzure> cluckj: sorta.. i know people who have talked about doing projects in that area, but i don't know how serious they are, progress, or anything like that
17:46 < kanzure> industromatic: keep sending messages.. i'm catching up on email at the moment but i do intend to help you out soon
17:46 < industromatic> How do you dereference pointer in C++?  I want value at location of const double* dir
17:46 < industromatic> and  value at location +1 of const double* dir
17:47 < industromatic> and  value at location +2 of const double* dir
17:47 < cluckj> ah okay, I'll look around, thanks
17:48 < QuantumG> industromatic:  const double *dd;    dd[0]  dd[1] dd[2]  etc
17:49 < industromatic> thanks,.
17:49 < QuantumG> *dd is a synonym for dd[0]
17:49 < QuantumG> *(dd+1) is a synonym for dd[1]
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17:59 < industromatic> No errors!  Thanks again quantumG
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18:10 < kanzure> hi asdf58 
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19:03 < industromatic> I tested the new feature, scripting the addition of cylinders in any orientation, and it works.  Yay!
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19:36 < QuantumG> I just went through pain to script SWFObject to play a JSON playlist of youtube videos
19:36 < QuantumG> because youtube provides no "play all the videos of this user in the order they uploaded them" option (wtf?)
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20:00 < QuantumG> http://youtube.com/watch?v=0S2dc_B-6Kg
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20:10 < QuantumG> http://youtube.com/watch?v=I1emTXIzhZw explanation 
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20:31 < kanzure> cool..
20:31 < kanzure> just got off the phone with the nanoengineer-1 funder
20:31 < QuantumG> yeah?
20:32 < kanzure> $3.5M over 3 years
20:32 < kanzure> er, 4
20:32 < kanzure> i'll be converting his private cvs repo to git in the next week or so
20:32 < QuantumG> what's the goal?
20:32 < kanzure> nanotech cad
20:33 < QuantumG> public?  open source?
20:33 < QuantumG> what range of atoms?
20:34 < kanzure> n=1 to n=10M
20:34 < QuantumG> (I do vagely remember the project, but not much in the way of detail)
20:34 < QuantumG> just molecular dynamics right?
20:35 < kanzure> what do you mean just
20:38 < QuantumG> structural DNA nanotechnology
20:38 < QuantumG> (it's pretty sad when I give up talking to you and just google)
20:38 < QuantumG> but I imagine one day people will just talk in 100% urls anyway
20:38 < QuantumG> so, who's the money going to?
20:39 < kanzure> he stopped funding it
20:39 < kanzure> but there was a team of 10 programmers
20:39 < QuantumG> a team of 10 programmers.. did they produce anything?
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20:39 < kanzure> the software :P
20:40 < kanzure> http://nanoengineer-1.com/snapshots/NanoEngineer-1_Suite_v1.1.1.12.tar.gz
20:40 < QuantumG> looked at it at all?
20:40 < kanzure> yeah i've used it before
20:41 < kanzure> and done some programming on it
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20:50 < QuantumG> NanoEngineer-1 is currently under development and is scheduled for release in the spring of 2008.  <- might wanna update the webpage.. 
20:50 < QuantumG> For a better idea of what NanoEngineer-1 is all about, check out the NanoEngineer-1 Gallery .  <- and that's not helpful at all (the gallery, it has nothink)
20:51 < fenn> you don't see the pretty pictures?
20:52 < fenn> dna origami, carbon nanotube linkers, gearboxes, tooltips
20:52 < QuantumG> the 3 pictures in the dna area? 
20:53 < kanzure> hi fenn~~~
20:54 < fenn> what was the point of ne-1?
20:55 < kanzure> being really cool
20:55 < QuantumG> my impression was that the goal was to allow the design of things you can't build (all the traditional nanotech stuff) and stuff you probably won't build but theoretically could (the dna stuff)
20:55 < kanzure> fenn: i'll email you the transcript
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20:56 < kanzure> fenn: sent
21:04 < kanzure> the tape reel stuff cracks me up
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21:09 < kanzure> fenn: get it?
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21:30 < kanzure> wb jrayhawk 
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22:18 < niftyzero1> I believe that the team working on NanoEngineer was disbanded more than a year ago
22:19 < niftyzero1> (that was for QuantumG)
22:19 < QuantumG> thanks
22:21 < QuantumG> be cool if there was a list of stuff people have built that they designed in it.
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22:30 < niftyzero1> Michael Moore did a bunch of stuff in it
22:30 < niftyzero1> http://machine-phase.blogspot.com/
22:35 < QuantumG> yep.. I think the dna-based stuff was interesting because you could theoretically actually make the stuff.
22:36 < QuantumG> whereas the molecular manufacturing stuff hasn't excited me since back when I read Drexler.. 
22:36 < QuantumG> Merkle and Freitas' work not withstanding.. cause they're actually trying to crack how to make the toolset to make it all possible.
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22:38 < QuantumG> Freitas more than Merkle these days it seems
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22:39 < QuantumG> http://www.rfreitas.com/NanoPubls.htm
22:40 < QuantumG> Damian G. Allis, Robert A. Freitas Jr., Ralph C. Merkle, ?Single-Atom Radical-Exchange Mechanosynthetic Transfer Reactions for Period 1,2,3,4 Elements using Monosubstituted Adamantane Tools and Workpieces,? J. Comput. Theor. Nanosci. 8(2011). In preparation.  <- tease!
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22:46 < genehacker> oh new merkle freitas paper coming out
22:49 < QuantumG> 3 by the looks of it
22:49 < QuantumG> 116 Willow Garage videos http://quantumg.net/wg/
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 16 00:00:07 2010