--- Log opened Sun Jan 02 00:00:04 2011
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01:11 < kanzure> http://blog.makerbot.com/2010/12/31/2011-3d-printing-predictions/
01:11 < kanzure> oh man. vague.
01:12  * kanzure goes back to sleep
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02:02 < Lukas_> Good morning
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07:34 < Utopiah> (random curiosity question) what's the most expensive piece of space one can rent? space launcher? (rack co-location in stock exchances place made me wonder)
07:39 < archels> probably anything in space, yes
07:42 < mjr> Took and ol' story and cleaned it up slightly, http://mjr.iki.fi/stories/pandora.html
08:16 < Lukas_> I have no idea
08:18 < Utopiah>  The Maker Movement, Young Makers, and Why They Matter  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTmFBwmJ-c0
08:20 < kanzure> http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-A-Fusion-Reactor/
08:21 < kanzure> http://makerfactory.com/ and https://github.com/effalo/makerfactory
08:24 < kanzure> eh? they started in april? https://github.com/EFFALO/MAKERFACTORY/commits/master?page=8
08:25 < Utopiah> what's the added value versus hackerspaces?
08:25 < Lukas_> I love google tech talks
08:26 < Utopiah> Lukas_: check the RSS feed then
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08:33 < kanzure> hackerspace in beijing http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1941408
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08:38 < Lukas_> There is no sound on the google tech talks video
08:38 < kanzure> Lukas_: your next step is to learn how to use irc from something other than a web browser
08:38 < kanzure> actually i guess the first step up would be https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/16/
08:38 < kanzure> but something like http://linux.die.net/man/1/screen wouldn't hurt either.
08:41 < kanzure> Utopiah: sadly, probably per cubic foot in downtown NYC
08:41 < Utopiah> I didnt meant for human being though, just space in general, hence the trading co-location ref
08:42 < Lukas_> Thank you
08:43 < Lukas_> I assume I'd need to use the FireFox OS in order to use that irc?
08:43 < kanzure> i hope you're joking
08:45 < Lukas_> XD
09:24 < kanzure> wait, lepht has only done a passive rfid chip and neodium magnets?
09:24 < kanzure> i thought there was other stuff
09:34 < Lukas_> Nope
09:35 < Lukas_> There are only so many things you can do with a limited budget
09:43 < kanzure> where is todd huffman or quinn norton today
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10:05 < Lukas_> Hullo mheld
10:07 < AlonzoTG> om
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10:09 < kanzure> fenn: thanks for humoring me
10:17 < fenn> "My friend Dustin D. Trammell has set up a Body Hacking mailing list, to which I plan to send updates on my research and writings on the subject. To subscribe mail bodyhacking-subscribe@lists.caughq.org" -quinn
10:18 < fenn> hm you're probably already subscribed
10:23 < fenn> "Blossom is working on a passive radar system that will require a more sensitive hardware setup than the current USRP. His passive radar reads in the ambient radio waves from existing sources, like FM stations and cell towers, and uses them to build a map of the area. We're hoping to see stuff on the order of 50 to 70 kilometers away."
10:24 < fenn> i wonder if that went anywhere (2006)
10:26 < Lukas_> thanks
10:32 < kanzure> fenn: yes i'm subscribed
10:33 < kanzure> wasn't there someone doing LIDAR for mapping, and then using that for personal mapping?
10:35 < fenn> joshcryer: i just finished "surface detail" last week, and i'm not sure the culture would so unilaterally come down on the anti-hell side, given their nutty respect for privacy of thought
10:40 < fenn> there's some kinect hacks for persona lidar-ish mapping http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/kinect-slam-demo
10:40 < kanzure> stelarc's third ear http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7039821.stm
10:40 < fenn> oh, yeah. i'm not a stelarc fan at all.
10:41 < kanzure> why's that?
10:41 < kanzure> i heard that he didn't take biocompatibility issues into account and fucked things up
10:43 < fenn> well, he just seems to to a lot of lame-o secondlife style crap like this http://www.eaf.asn.au/2007/images/stelarc_walkinghead.jpg
10:43 < kanzure> secondlife is the future man!!
10:44 < kanzure> eh stelarc does flesh hook suspensions? meh
10:44 < kanzure> "In another performance he allowed his body to be controlled remotely by electronic muscle stimulators connected to the internet."
10:45 < kanzure> wut?
10:45 < Lukas_> ?
11:07 < fenn> btw if anyone hasn't seen this yet, check it out http://bodybrowser.googlelabs.com/
11:13 < fenn> "A Humster is a hybrid cell line made from hamster oocyte fertilized with human sperm" wtfrly
11:14 < Lukas_> O_O
11:14 < Lukas_> wow, leave it to Google
11:14 < fenn> i think this is BS
11:14 < kanzure> humster! ha ha ha
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11:18 < fenn> more re humsters http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mrd.1120230307/abstract
11:18 < Lukas_> D:
11:32 < kanzure> fenn: ping
11:32 < kanzure> my response about lepht:
11:32 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/89aec69224771631
11:34 < fenn> hm i was sure i downloaded that video
11:39 < archels> kanzure: Couldn't agree more.
11:40 < archels> She gives transhumanism in general a bad image.
11:40 < fenn> is the wired article online?
11:41 < fenn> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/transcending-the-human-diy-style/
11:41 < kanzure> yes
11:41 < fenn> "Good anesthetic is largely impossible to buy" umm not really
11:44 < fenn> http://www.google.com/search?q=lidocaine&tbs=shop:1&aq=f
11:47 < Lukas_> Interesting ...
11:47 < kanzure> fwiw i edited http://wiki.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/Biohacking
11:48 < fenn> amazing how cheap veterinary products are.. $1.25 per bottle of lidocaine, jeez
11:48 < fenn> oh that's not even veterinary, it's medical
11:51 < kanzure> minimum order: 1 barrel
11:51 < kanzure> http://www.alibaba.com/products/lidocaine/CN--------------351-100007693,100002036-100006197.html
11:52 < kanzure> white powder 1g $100-$150/gram i don't know how that compares
11:52 < kanzure> another one is lidocaine hcl at $150-$260/kg
11:53 < Lukas_> Kanzure, I must say that you levied a legitimate criticism of lepht
11:53 < fenn> ugh bad journalism
11:53 < fenn> " neodymium metal, coated in gold and silicon, which give off mild electric current when in a electromagnetic field. When inserted under the fingertips, this current stimulates the fingers’ nerve endings, allowing the bearer to literally feel the shape and strength of electromagnetic fields around power cords or electronic devices."
11:58 < archels> magic!
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11:58 < kanzure> i'm really impressed by how quickly my email goes from extropy-chat to blogspot to "Google Alerts"
11:58 < kanzure> http://exi-chat.blogspot.com/2011/01/exi-transcending-human-diy-style.html
11:59 < fenn> neat
12:10 < kanzure> fenn: did you see tim schmidt's email to you/om?
12:14 < kanzure> ack this is hard to keep track of.. three diybio events this month: diybio/singapore with denisa kera (jan 8), bio.tmplab.org (jan 11), london hackspace (jan 15)
12:15 < Lukas_> O.o
12:15 < Lukas_> will there be videos?
12:16 < kanzure> there were videos of london hackspace's previous diybio/biohacking event..
12:16 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muxDfkKDXnY
12:16 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W5ZshwteUw
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12:54 < kanzure> fenn: thx for the forward
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13:33 < kanzure> does anyone remember the trepanation community on the web?
13:33 < kanzure> trepaning "The practice of drilling a hole in the skull for aesthetic, medical or spiritual treatment."
13:33 < kanzure> the first step was something like "shave your head, choke yourself and trace the veins with a marker"
13:33 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanning
13:40 < kanzure> that 1525 treveris painting looks like an unpainted screen from metalocalypse
13:41 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Peter_Treveris_-_engraving_of_Trepanation_for_Handywarke_of_surgeri_1525.png
13:44 < archels> Handworks of Surgery, hah.
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14:18 < Lukas_> heh
14:18 < Lukas_> ironic
14:18 < Lukas_> just as I am leaving ...
14:19 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doktor_Sleepless
14:19 < kanzure> "Doktor Sleepless is a monthly comic book series written by Warren Ellis with art by Ivan Rodriguez that is published by Avatar Press, launched in July 2007.[1] The comic draws from a wide range of ideas - from futurism and transhumanism to corporatism and counter-culture."
14:19 < kanzure> "According to series writer Warren Ellis, Doktor Sleepless may be a man named John Reinhardt, a trust-fund baby and boy genius who is shunned by the counter-culture he helped found."
14:19 < kanzure> "After disappearing from the city of Heavenside three years ago, he suddenly returns having undergone some changes during the interim. Upon his return, he's transformed himself from a relatively mundane man into what he describes as a "cartoon mad scientist," calling himself "Doktor Sleepless.""
14:21 < kanzure> http://nerdfighters.ning.com/forum/topics/practical-transhumanism
14:22 < kanzure> http://sillyskynet.blogspot.com/2011/01/cybernetics-for-masses-good.html
14:22 < kanzure> http://c3.ex23.de/saal2-2010-12-30_11-21-43.wmv
14:22 < kanzure> http://c3.ex23.de/saal2-2010-12-30_13-37-07.wmv
14:22 < kanzure> there's the video..
14:22 < kanzure> they suggest:
14:22 < kanzure> wget -qO- http://c3.ex23.de/saal2-2010-12-30_11-21-43.wmv | ffmpeg -i pipe: cybernetics_for_the_masses1.mp4
14:22 < kanzure> wget -qO- http://c3.ex23.de/saal2-2010-12-30_13-37-07.wmv | ffmpeg -i pipe: cybernetics_for_the_masses2.mp4
14:23 < kanzure> phryk: thanks for the reply re: "sensible and painless" :)
14:23 < Lukas_> grr, I won't be able to read this now - well, I suppose that's what backlogs are for
14:23 < Lukas_> cya
14:24 < phryk> kanzure: You're welcome.
14:24 < phryk> I didn't like what the wired guy wrote.
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14:32 < kanzure> heh http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1140010/a_hole_in_the_head_do_it_yourself_trepanation/
14:32 < phryk> :D
14:33 < phryk> stay the hell away with trepanation from me^^
14:33 < uniqanomaly_> blah, it's nothing
14:33 < uniqanomaly_> self trepanation would be more interesting
14:33 < phryk> It's like installing a "push-to-kill" button on your head, isn't it?
14:33 < uniqanomaly_> in front of mirror
14:34 < uniqanomaly_> that actually would be interesting
14:34 < uniqanomaly_> :<
14:34 < uniqanomaly_> mhm
14:34 < uniqanomaly_> fuck yeah
14:35 < kanzure> fenn: where did you get the idea for patent-free zones from? it seems more actionable than 'nullify all patents'
14:35 < uniqanomaly_> ok, FAIL, that means i actually need get some sleep after new year party and afterparty
14:35 < uniqanomaly_> cya
14:36 < kanzure> es
14:36 < kanzure> heh new years party after parties
14:40 < kanzure> 110 year old man ready to marry wife #6 http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/breaking-news/man-110-ready-to-wed-wife-number-six/story-e6frea73-1225980600581
14:42 < Tarvis> O.O
14:42 < Tarvis> Only mild hearing and vision problems?
14:43 < kanzure> didn't you hear? 110 is the new 40
14:43 < Tarvis> Apparently
14:44 < kanzure> other than being ridiculously old, some supercentenarians are healthier than me
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14:48 < Tarvis> Wow
14:48 < Tarvis> Eh, I think about this too much, all I can think about is what change can lead to people saying that healthy that long
14:49 < Tarvis> staying*
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14:56 < mheld> I'm looking for a change. Should I get a cool new haircut, go vegetarian, or something else (tell me what the something is)?
14:58 < kanzure> you should tattoo my name on your ass
15:00 < phryk> Go vegan, it's the new shiznit.
15:00 < mheld> nothing permanent :-P
15:00 < phryk> I used the world shizinit, so it's gotta be really trendy!1!!
15:00 < mheld> I've gone vegetarian for a month
15:01 < mheld> I could try vegan for a month
15:01 < QuantumG> how long have you gone gay for?
15:01 < phryk> I've gon vegetarian, too.
15:01 < phryk> I think I'm vegetarian since almost 6 hours now.
15:01 < phryk> Maybe even vegan, dunno…
15:03 < mheld> haha
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15:16 < mheld> yeah, I'm going pescetarian for a month
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15:30 < mheld> I'm gonna go pescetarian and work on my robot
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16:07 < kanzure> http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/home/index.html
16:07 < kanzure> http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/early_stage_innovation/early_stage_programs_chart.html
16:08 < kanzure> john cumbers has weird stuff going on :)
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16:11 < kanzure> http://syntheticbiology.arc.nasa.gov/node/12
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16:19 < kanzure> http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/home/roadmaps/index.html
16:22 < AlonzoTG> om
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16:58 < bdesk> what do you guys think of this article
16:58 < bdesk> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/transcending-the-human-diy-style
16:59 < kanzure> bdesk: http://exi-chat.blogspot.com/2011/01/exi-transcending-human-diy-style.html
16:59 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i should listen to your predictions more often
17:05 < bdesk> fwiw i thought the wired article was blatant trolling of diy transhumanism.  sometimes i like a little trolling, but this just made me sad.
17:06 < bdesk> the caption to go with her picture was "An articulate advocate for practical transhumanism." but in the article they highlight the most impractical applications and pick her most inarticulate quotations.
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17:07 < kanzure> bdesk: "i have been known to slice my arms open for shits'n'giggles, sure, and do a fair amount of damage in the process (none of this emo cat-scratch bullshit, i've split my arm to the tendons like the little psychopath i sort of am)"
17:08 < kanzure> trolling can work both ways
17:08 < kanzure> haha
17:08 < kanzure> i should probably scrape the blog before it vanishes though
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17:18 < bdesk> kanzure: you wrote that today?
17:19 < kanzure> yes
17:19 < kanzure> is it bad
17:20 < kanzure> "it's trolling diy transhumanism" is a much more concise way of saying what i said
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17:26 < bdesk> i thought your blurb was good, and now i see what you mean by the trolling working both ways.  i really like the idea of someone capable of 'adult supervision' sending a blurb to wired, and i hope that they would publish it.  maybe a 'letter from a reader' or something.  also i wouldn't hate on lepht too much.
17:27 < kanzure> yeah i think this is more of wired's fault
17:27 < kanzure> but it will suck if this becomes a trend :/
17:27 < kanzure> i mean, lepht
17:28 < kanzure> in the news.
17:32 < bdesk> "which is from an old and rather pathetic attempt of mine to see how much i could make myself bleed by opening veins" wtf
17:33 < kanzure> where's that from
17:35 < bdesk> teh blog
17:35 < bdesk> not that it's relevant.
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17:47 < kanzure> weird: "No such amendment has been passed, or even to my knowledge come close to a vote in congress. So why is it okay for congress to be acting like they have the unconditional power to hand out intellectual property rights?"
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17:58 < itdnhr> kanzure and I are chatting about magnetic implants
17:58 < itdnhr> anyone done it? have protips about where to source the magnets or coatings?
17:58 < kanzure> ian wants suggestions on bio-compatible coatings
17:58 < kanzure> phryk: you still around?
17:59 < itdnhr> I'm looking at http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/D0100G.html for the magnet, maybe http://appliedsilicone.com/liquidsiliconerubber30lsr30implantgrade-2.aspx for the coating
18:00 < itdnhr> but it's $350, and only sold in pound increments
18:01 < itdnhr> Lepht Anonym is a fan of Sugru, but also tends to stick stuff like hotglue in herself, which has me a little put off.
18:03 < bdesk> i just read the blog and lepht does a lot of stuff that would probably put you off.  but that doesn't mean lepht doesn't know about diy implant.
18:09 < itdnhr> bdesk: I can't find shit about Methyltris(methylethylketoxime)silane and Gamma-Aminopropyl Triethoxysilane-based implants
18:09 < itdnhr> (those are the two chems in sugru)
18:15 < kanzure> any ideas on what to tell ray to give me money for?
18:16 < bdesk> itdnhr: sorry, i'm waiting until it gets lasik-mainstream before i would think about it
18:18 < bdesk> kanzure: i suggest your online journal scraper or your debian-for-real-stuff project.
18:22 < kanzure> i don't think ray will understand debian
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18:23 < bdesk> yeah those projects aren't flashy, that was just my 2 cents.
18:24 < kanzure> well i agree with you.
18:24 < kanzure> he can offer $1k to $15k but after $5k the probability starts dropping significantly
18:29 < bdesk> you could ask a grant to be a layer of middle management for him, using your networking skills to connect him to interesting projects
18:36 < bdesk> if i wore this http://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/ then most people would think it is either A) court-ordered or B) a bomb.
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18:46 < jrayhawk> where's "No such amendment has been passed" from?
18:46 < jrayhawk> because the copyright clause is fairly obviously an intellectual propery amendment
18:53 < AlonzoTG> I can't stand wired because the information density of their articles is spectacularly low. =\
18:56 < kanzure> jrayhawk: it was on hacker news re: someone complaining about stuff that would have been released in the public domain today
18:56 < kanzure> bdesk: ooh how about an AFM
18:56 < kanzure> i guess lots of people build AFMs though nobody seems to be building them lately
18:57 < kanzure> other high-cost scientific equipment might be a possibility to get ray to fund (i.e. for making an open source version)
19:00 < bdesk> i like the idea of dual-use medical devices which could be used for either disabled people or for crazy transhumanist types.
19:01 < kanzure> "dual use" is mainly used by people who are into public policy and terrorism
19:01 < kanzure> but yes
19:02 < bdesk> also "medical device" is mainly used to mean things that cost 10-100x
19:03 < kanzure> yes
19:03 < kanzure> rtms would be nice but i don't know anyone who would build it
19:03 < kanzure> damn it why don't i have a list
19:05 < AlonzoTG> Yeah, medicine is f'd.
19:05 < bdesk> "dual use" is reserved for things like food, which people in gaza could either eat or make a bomb with it.
19:06 < kanzure> :)
19:06 < kanzure> (bdesk is implying the food is especially bad in gaza)
19:06 < AlonzoTG> All of my ideas require strong AI. =\
19:06 < kanzure> oh boy
19:06 < kanzure> another believer in intelligence
19:06 < kanzure> lemme guess another one of your conspiracy theories
19:06 < AlonzoTG> whaaaa?
19:07 < AlonzoTG> WTF?
19:07 < AlonzoTG> =\
19:07 < bdesk> damn kanzure you are getting jaded
19:07 < AlonzoTG> I'm talking about building a closet-sized hospital. =P
19:07 < kanzure> bdesk: i'm just playing around
19:07 < QuantumG> AI is the modern incarnation of the longing for slavery
19:07 < AlonzoTG> It's the only way to get any leverage on lots of these problems. =(
19:08 < AlonzoTG> Without it, a lone mad scientist has little hope of accomplishing anything.
19:08 < bdesk> google is strong ai
19:08 < AlonzoTG> So therefore I need AI.
19:08 < AlonzoTG> no
19:08 < bdesk> how do you know?
19:08 < bdesk> if there is strong ai do you think it would want to tell you?
19:08 < AlonzoTG> If it was, I'd know.
19:09 < bdesk> does strong ai just mean something intellectually equivalent to a person?
19:10 < bdesk> because i think google is past that
19:10 < AlonzoTG> Strong AI is something that can behave in a rationally justifyiable way when presented with any problem in any environment.
19:10 < QuantumG> .. if you have to ask.
19:10 < AlonzoTG> There's a difference between a database and an intellect.
19:10 < bdesk> oh that is super-strong ai.  like thermodynamically infeasibly strong ai.
19:11 < bdesk> i would classify google as more like an intellect than a database.  also chinese room.
19:11 < AlonzoTG> I didn't say optimally, I said in a rationally justifiable way.
19:12 < bdesk> kanzure: in that case ask for money to work on AGI
19:13 < AlonzoTG> I WANT A NAO!!! =P
19:13 < AlonzoTG> I WANT MY NAO NOW!!!
19:15 < kanzure> < AlonzoTG> Without it, a lone mad scientist has little hope of accomplishing anything.
19:15 < kanzure> perhaps you are not mad enough
19:16 < kanzure> and/or angry
19:16 < AlonzoTG> I'm plenty crazy. =P
19:16 < AlonzoTG> Actually, I'm half-way saved for a Nao.
19:16 < AlonzoTG> I got me 6 oz of gold reserved for it already.
19:16 < AlonzoTG> I think I need about 11 or so to actually buy it.
19:16 < QuantumG> if you were really crazy you wouldn't need computer intelligence.. you'd just acquire it via kidnapping and blackmail
19:17 < AlonzoTG> There's a difference between a mad scientist and a demented scientist. =|
19:17 < AlonzoTG> I tried joining a mad science group but they were all to demented to deal with. =(
19:17 < bdesk> wtf is nao
19:18 < kanzure> stupid 4chan meme
19:18 < AlonzoTG> find out.
19:18 < bdesk> nvm i dont want to know
19:18 < AlonzoTG> Yes you do.
19:18 < AlonzoTG> They cost about $16k.
19:18 < QuantumG> I think most people who say "mad scientist" in an affectionate way just mean "anti-social wanna-be tinkerer"
19:19 < kanzure> tinkerer?
19:19 < bdesk> as opposed to industrial production
19:19 < kanzure> QuantumG: do you think ed boyden or andy ellington is a mad scientist?
19:19 < kanzure> andy is probably madder than ed in terms of actual anger
19:19 < bdesk> the mad in mad scientist does not mean anger
19:19 < kanzure> right
19:20 < kanzure> Doktor Sleepless sounds cool enough. i should steal some copies..
19:22 < bdesk> food is dual-use because either the good guys could eat it or the bad guys could eat it.
19:23 < bdesk> tv is dual-use because you could use it to watch mythbusters or you could use it to watch jersey shore
19:23 < kanzure> "food hacking" not as inconspicuous as you first thought
19:24 < kanzure> aka "molecular gastronomy"
19:24 < bdesk> inconspicuous?
19:24 < bdesk> innocuous maybe?
19:24 < kanzure> sure
19:25 < bdesk> yeah i like the idea of molecular gastronomy
19:25 < kanzure> i'm just saying "molecular gastronomy" sounds more sinister
19:25 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_gastronomy
19:25 < kanzure> haha giant picture of an egg
19:36 < bdesk> if someone made a cake so good it deserved a nobel prize, which prize should it get?
19:37 < kanzure> peace prize
19:38 < kanzure> other cakes get it too?
19:38 < bdesk> i was thinking economics for home economics but peace prize is better
19:39 < kanzure> i did a backup of hplusmagazine.com's mysql db last year and one just a few minutes ago
19:39 < kanzure> this one is 10 MB smaller
19:39 < bdesk> D:
19:39 < bdesk> it was out of commission for a while though, right?
19:39 < kanzure> should diff be able to handle multi-megabyte diffs on .sql (mostly plaintext) data?
19:40 < kanzure> no i mean "last year" as in 3 days ago
19:40 < bdesk> o
19:41 < bdesk> so we haven't hit peak hplus yet
19:41 < kanzure> technologiclee (some of you might remember him from hanging out in here) is posting his medical file to diybio/etc.
19:41 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/2c3403097d20d83f
19:41 < kanzure> i saw his knee once. it was gnarly.
19:42 < kanzure> http://picasaweb.google.com/technologiclee/ProstheticImplantXRays#
19:42 < AlonzoTG> JFC! that's horrible!
19:43 < AlonzoTG> I wish doctors didn't have so much risk from malpractice....
19:43 < AlonzoTG> Even an amputation might be an improvement in this case. =\
19:43 < AlonzoTG> =(((
19:43 < AlonzoTG> I really would like to help ppl like that but I just can't now,
19:43 < AlonzoTG> so I'm working on AI,
19:43 < AlonzoTG> damn the naysayers.
19:43 < AlonzoTG> and the goertzel,
19:44 < AlonzoTG> On the other hand, I eventually intend to develop my own cybernetic species,
19:44 < bdesk> what did he try to put in his knee
19:44 < AlonzoTG> very very challenging work.
19:44 < AlonzoTG> Apparently he had cancer from the fluoridated water,
19:44 < kanzure> bdesk: no i think that's what his docs put in
19:45 < bdesk> i didnt click
19:46 < kanzure> it's .. brutal.
19:46 < kanzure> (it's just xrays)
19:47 < bdesk> does diy bio mean poor americans taking the scalpel to themselves because they dont have health insurance?
19:53 < bdesk> when you risk life and limb to help test a drug, are you helping science or big pharma? "http://motherjones.com/environment/2010/09/dan-markingson-drug-trial-astrazeneca"
19:53 < kanzure> i think it depends on who is doing the study
19:56 < bdesk> the story is that you think the university is doing the study but it is really the pharmaceutical industry
19:57 < AlonzoTG> om
19:57 < AlonzoTG> I'm thinking of converting from atheism to pastafarianism.
19:58 < AlonzoTG> reasoning: all atheists ever talk about is god, and pastafarianism is funny and serves my spiritual need to smile every so often.
19:58 < bdesk> good choice.  when you are atheist people wonder which god it is that you don't believe in.
19:58 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: did you read the whole brain uploading roadmap?
19:58 < AlonzoTG> Yes, cover to cover,
19:58 < AlonzoTG> It didn't start making sense until appendix K. =
19:59 < AlonzoTG> I have a printout in the other room if you want to go over any specific sections.
19:59 < kanzure> not at the moment
19:59 < kanzure> i was trying to give you something to do
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19:59 < AlonzoTG> heh. ;)
19:59 < bdesk> i saw a seminar where they read the mind of a fruitfly
19:59 < kanzure> the mind?
19:59 < Lukas_> Alright, what did I miss?
20:00 < kanzure> do you mean the nneurons
20:00 < kanzure> neurons
20:00 < kanzure> Lukas_: http://gnusha.org/logs/
20:00 < bdesk> they could tell one bit of information, and this required a heroic effort
20:00 < AlonzoTG> That sounds like progress, actually.
20:00 < AlonzoTG> I'm pleased.
20:00 < AlonzoTG> =)
20:01 < kanzure> bdesk: what was their setup?
20:01 < kanzure> microelectrode array? :D
20:01 < bdesk> no it was more invasive
20:01 < kanzure> with a sufficient density array you can get a lot of information out, though not on a fly
20:01 < kanzure> more invasive than microelectrodes? hmm
20:01 < kanzure> fmri + voltage sensitive gfp?
20:01 < AlonzoTG> If my AI efforts didn't succeed on their own, I'd be happy to have an emulated mind to study and torture....
20:02 < bdesk> cross section of brain and then look at rna expressions, i think.
20:02 < kanzure> err fmri + a magnetic-related ion channel
20:02 < kanzure> rna expression? tyou have to sacrifice the fly for that
20:02 < bdesk> right
20:02 < bdesk> i said invasive
20:02 < kanzure> "read the mind" ?
20:03 < AlonzoTG> Those little buggers can barely even qualify as macroscopic anyway. =P
20:03 < kanzure> rna expression studies are fun though, sure
20:03 < bdesk> they could tell whether the fly associated the smell with more foods or with less foods.
20:03 < bdesk> i think.
20:03 < kanzure> do you have names
20:04 < bdesk> also they showed three distinct memory 'phases' like short, medium, and long.
20:04 < bdesk> and that these are not on a continuous spectrum but are more analogous to how we have three color cones to see the continuous visible light spectrum
20:04 < kanzure> does anyone remember what that latest memory engram protocol breakthrough was? it was sometime back in 2008
20:06 < bdesk> kanzure: http://www.scripps.edu/florida/research/faculty.php?rec_id=61800
20:07 < kanzure> ronald davis?
20:07 < bdesk> yes
20:08 < kanzure> A comprehensive assay for targeted multiplex amplification of human DNA sequences
20:08 < kanzure> Sujatha Krishnakumar, Jianbiao Zheng, Julie Wilhelmy, Malek Faham, Michael Mindrinos, and Ronald Davis
20:08 < kanzure> Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. U.S.A. 105, 9296 (2008)
20:08 < kanzure> probably not the same guy.
20:08 < AlonzoTG> My latest neural science book purchase was on the fibre pathways of the brain.
20:08 < kanzure> just something i saw in my inbox once..
20:08 < AlonzoTG> I'm going to need it to know how to organize the software in my NAO.
20:09 < AlonzoTG> My concern about my NAO project is that I only have a 500 mhz processor on-board and only a wifi link to external processing.
20:09 < AlonzoTG> So that might be a major bottleneck for me.
20:09 < AlonzoTG> Also it gets much deeper into network programming than I had been previously. =\
20:09 < AlonzoTG> So yeah, I think the first three years of my project will be spent taming the underlying software. =(
20:10 < bdesk> kanzure: that would probably be this ronald davis http://biox.stanford.edu/clark/davis.html
20:10 < kanzure> oh the bearded one. hrm.
20:10 < kanzure> An in vivo gene deletion system for determining temporal requirement of bacterial virulence factors
20:11 < bdesk> i am scared that AlonzoTG is spending thousands of dollars doing something he read on 4chan
20:11 < bdesk> does edward you know about this?
20:11 < kanzure> A comparative study of living cell micromechanical properties by oscillatory optical tweezers
20:11 < AlonzoTG> Wtf is 4chan? Everyone's been talking about it for the last week or so,
20:11 < kanzure> bdesk: i'm sure ed knows about 4chan
20:11 < kanzure> actually
20:11 < kanzure> i should ask if the fbi knows about 4chan
20:11 < kanzure> or if they brief each other on it
20:11 < AlonzoTG> but since it's probably a forum, I'm not even slightly interested.
20:11 < kanzure> hah
20:13 < bdesk> nao = neural artificial organism?
20:13 < AlonzoTG> damnit, now you made me open up my browser to find the link...
20:14 < AlonzoTG> http://www.robotshop.com/aldebaran-robotics-nao-academic-robot-v3plus-4.html
20:14 < bdesk> network artificial organism
20:14 < kanzure> http://knowyourmeme.com/forums/general/topics/2899-i-can-haz-superpowah-nao
20:14 < AlonzoTG> There's this amazing video on google of 20 naos dancing the robot. =P
20:15 < bdesk> is it this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nao_%28robot%29
20:15 < AlonzoTG> Ofcourse, when they take over the world, they'll dance the human. ;)
20:15 < bdesk> Networked Artificial Organism
20:15 < bdesk> this is my best guess
20:15 < AlonzoTG> Yes yes, that's the bot, damnit!
20:21 < AlonzoTG> =\
20:21 < AlonzoTG> I'll need 20 million of those with armor plating and nuclear power cells to take over the world. 8P
20:25 < AlonzoTG> Why did everyone go silent. =(
20:25 < AlonzoTG> ?
20:26 < delinquentme> AlonzoTG, im with you on the engineering organisms
20:26 < delinquentme> sounds bamf.
20:26 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: sorry but i'll achieve global world domination before you
20:26 < kanzure> my plan involves draining the gulf of mexico
20:26 < kanzure> by 2016.
20:28 < delinquentme> kanzure, subcontract that dam to me ok?
20:28 < kanzure> :)
20:28 < delinquentme> im investing in popsicle sticks
20:30 < AlonzoTG> .
20:31 < bdesk> kanzure: i think i was wrong about the rna expression of a dead fly, and that they actually used microscopy of live transgenic flies
20:34 < kanzure> much better
20:34 < kanzure> much more diabolical
20:35 < AlonzoTG> My point is that I think AGI is the only possible route towards accomplishing everything I need to accomplish in my short lifespan. =\
20:35 < delinquentme> OOHHHhh
20:35 < delinquentme> DUDE
20:35 < delinquentme> *head explodes*
20:36 < delinquentme> kanzure, YOUUU would know about what machines run on linux/unix systems
20:36 < delinquentme> :D
20:36 < AlonzoTG> But then the uploaders say that as soon as AGI comes around, they'll immediately order it to construct an m-brain for them. =(
20:37 < kanzure> yes but can you clarify your philosophical differences by identifing with a predefined caste on orion's ar
20:37 < kanzure> arm
20:37 < kanzure> orion's arm.
20:37 < AlonzoTG> I have no need or interest in doing so.
20:38 < AlonzoTG> I took a peek at that site about ten years ago...
20:38 < AlonzoTG> didn't see any point in participating.
20:38 < AlonzoTG> I thought it was just a game.
20:38 < kanzure> how old are you
20:38 < AlonzoTG> I guess it's more like the "transhumanist paradims" wiki I tried to put up.
20:38 < AlonzoTG> 33.
20:38 < kanzure> and you've been working on agi for how long now
20:39 < AlonzoTG> I've been reading books about AI and AI research for about 16 years now.
20:40 < kanzure> ok
20:40 < AlonzoTG> I got sick of reading books on neural science and such,
20:40 < AlonzoTG> I want to BUILD!!! (and then be humiliated back into reading again....)
20:41 < kanzure> so what are you building
20:41 < bdesk> to build anything useful you have to be associated with government or industry
20:41 < Lukas_> Unfortunately
20:41 < AlonzoTG> ;)
20:42 < AlonzoTG> I refuse to deal with the government and I don't have enough letters after my name to get hired to do anything cool for industry.
20:42 < delinquentme> ummm no idea kanzure ?
20:42 < AlonzoTG> So therefore I'm going to spend $30,000 of my own money on the project.
20:42 < kanzure> delinquentme: wait what was your question
20:42 < kanzure> what machines run on linux?
20:42 < delinquentme> yeah specifically bio machines
20:42 < delinquentme> that arent windoez
20:43 < kanzure> i don't know of any biology-lab-equipment that comes with linux drivers or support
20:43 < kanzure> sometimes it's just raw data over a port..
20:43 < AlonzoTG> What kind of question is that? I'm running linux...
20:43 < AlonzoTG> Linux runs on just about everything, the instant a new platform comes out, ppl port linux to it. They're insane, but that's what happens.
20:43 < delinquentme> AlonzoTG, yeah as am i :D and im just kind of head-in-th-clouds thinking about what would be the awesomeness for a lab
20:44 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: it's a language issue
20:44 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: i don't think delinquentme speaks english
20:44 < AlonzoTG> Yeah, a lot of equipment only has windows drivers.
20:44 < delinquentme> http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/archives/318
20:44 < delinquentme> va a commigo de la cuarto de bano
20:44 < AlonzoTG> The gear I have for my electric car only has windows software. =(
20:45 < bdesk> i know that some centrifuges in iran run windows
20:45 < delinquentme> ^^ so that puppy has its own windows interface
20:45 < bdesk> or at least they used to
20:45 < kanzure> 88proof.com is jncline (he used to come in here too..)
20:45 < delinquentme> yeah i shot him a email about the same thing
20:45 < kanzure> you should see his electrowetting-on-dielectrics stuff
20:45 < delinquentme> getting that higher level function between the server and the machined
20:45 < delinquentme> just found it today!
20:45 < kanzure> basically he was doing some pcb boards for microfluidics and droplet manipulation
20:46 < kanzure> he has his code up on sourceforge if you want it
20:46 < kanzure> and on CPAN.. he's a hardcore perl fan
20:46 < delinquentme> OHH thats what CPAN is
20:46 < kanzure> svn co https://jcline.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/jcline jcline
20:46 < delinquentme> yeah see
20:47 < delinquentme> im TRYING to stick w Ruby
20:47 < kanzure> why
20:47 < delinquentme> because i dont hold your belief that languages DONT matter
20:47 < delinquentme> :D
20:47 < delinquentme> and ive got RoR going on
20:47 < delinquentme> so best case scenario i can get these to jive together
20:48 < kanzure> meh if you were a better programmer you would be able to wire it up anyway ;)
20:49 < delinquentme> haha working on it
20:49 < delinquentme> i need to find someplace where someone will let me play w their machine
20:49 < kanzure> what lab equipment do you have
20:49 < kanzure> ah. i see.
20:49 < delinquentme> NOTHING!
20:49 < kanzure> well that makes it hard then huh
20:49 < delinquentme> yeah thats a super bummer
20:49 < AlonzoTG> I've been making my living off of Java recently. =P
20:49 < AlonzoTG> I have no use for biotech equipment, -- yet. even though I have a contract with a biotech firm.
20:49 < delinquentme> ive got this arduino based hardware im looking into .. moving mount for a microscope
20:50 < delinquentme> and thats easy enough to get started on ..
20:50 < kanzure> mac cowell has somes tuff floating around for what he calls 'roboscope'
20:50 < delinquentme> but id LOVE some serious equipment to jack into
20:50 < kanzure> it's an arduino shield related to microscopy
20:50 < delinquentme> @_@
20:50 < kanzure> but it streams to iphones and ipads with live video
20:50 < kanzure> or something sick.
20:50 < delinquentme> yeah that is kinda wild
20:51 < delinquentme> kanzure, do you know if the companies who purchase these big mean machines have some kind of agreements preventing them from hacking it?
20:52 < kanzure> warranties
20:52 < kanzure> although lots of older equipment is out of warranty
20:52 < kanzure> you can pick interesting stuff up at university liquidation auctions
20:53 < delinquentme> so warranties and wanting to keep the equip functional
20:53 < kanzure> in terms of wiring up new software to it, that's not going to break it
20:53 < kanzure> usually you hook up an external computer to your lab equipment
20:53 < kanzure> com, rs232, and if it was made in the last 10 years, maybe usb
20:54 < kanzure> serial ports woo
20:54 < kanzure> sometimes custom ports! because they are evil bastards
20:57 < delinquentme> haha
20:57 < delinquentme> the "dongle"
20:57 < delinquentme> (thats what the tecan liquid handlers have )
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23:25 < kanzure> "What a bunch of complete nonsense. Ooh, I stuck a fork up my ass, now I’m more evolved and can sense when there’s a salad within 30 feet. Pffft.
23:25 < kanzure> :D
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23:28 < kanzure> hmm my comment was removed by the wired moderators
23:33 < joshcryer> Commenting on Lepht's article?
23:38 < kanzure> birthday #21 is on jan 4 for me
23:38 < kanzure> what should i do?
23:43 < joshcryer> Maybe do the ritual buying alcohol thing.
23:43 < joshcryer> (I never did that, didn't drink for the first time until I was like 25.)
23:43 < joshcryer> Maybe avoid anything and everything h+, just to see what it's like.
23:43 < joshcryer> I bet it's been awhile since you have had a break.
23:44 < kanzure> a brea..k?
23:44 < joshcryer> Heh
23:45 < joshcryer> Also, I didn't know you were so young.
23:45 < joshcryer> Damn kids these days, so smart.
23:45 < kanzure> young? i'm practically ancient now
23:45 < kanzure> why just last year i was 12
23:46 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-76-124-67-155.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]
23:47 < joshcryer> You must've been 16 when we met.
23:51 < joshcryer> QuantumG, during an AI discussion I once had a guy once told me that we should endow hammers with intelligence. If we were going to go with automation.
23:51 < joshcryer> QuantumG, in that vein AI is slavery.
23:52 < joshcryer> QuantumG, but dumb automation is hardly anything of the sort, imnsho.
23:53 < joshcryer> The slavers were fully aware of the humanity of their slaves, and even attempted to justify it with stupid arguments about how they treated their slaves better because of this awareness.
23:54 < joshcryer> "Do I not feed and clothe my slaves, and shelter them? They are clearly better off under my extreme benelovence. I just won't let them read so that they stay dumb."
23:55 < joshcryer> The guy who argued for intelligent hammers used this exact argument, and decided that, if we had the *ability* to endow hammers with intelligence, we ought to.
23:55 < joshcryer> "Let hammers learn to read," type of argument.
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--- Log closed Mon Jan 03 00:00:04 2011