--- Log opened Sat Jan 15 00:00:01 2011
--- Day changed Sat Jan 15 2011
00:00 < kanzure> ok where is the conf file
00:00 < fenn> first it looks in ~/.skdb/conf then /etc/skdb/conf then /usr/local/share/skdb/conf or whatever
00:00 < fenn> could do same for packages
00:00 < kanzure> ok then what are the defaults in conf.whatever
00:01 < fenn> same as above, s/conf/packages\//
00:01 < kanzure> timschmidt: am i forgetting anything?
00:01 < fenn> materials
00:01 < kanzure> i figure that should go in 'inventory' (either a folder or a file, i don't care)
00:01 < fenn> uh, symbol grounding problem
00:02 < jebba> just default to ~/skdb for files, and ~/.skdb/config for the config. And systemwide could just be changed in /etc/skdb.conf with user override.
00:02 < kanzure> ~/skdb is bad because it pollutes your user's home
00:02 < fenn> agreed
00:02 < fenn> i think he meant ~/.skdb
00:02 < kanzure> although..
00:02 < kanzure> lots of hardware users seem to want easy access to their files
00:02 < jebba> well, are packages to be installed by users, or admins?  Like should you need root to install on a system? I would think not.
00:02 < timschmidt> I vote for ~/.skdb
00:02 < kanzure> no you don't need root
00:02 < timschmidt> for storing packages that are installed
00:02 < fenn> i hate it when some fucking program i only use once wants to make its own rigidly named directory in my home every time i run it
00:02 < kanzure> unless you're running 'fabuntu'
00:03 < kanzure> (no not the gay ubuntu)
00:03 < fenn> arduino always tries to make "sketchbook" which conveniently collides with my "sketches" directory
00:03 < fenn> and eagle always makes "eagle"
00:03 < kanzure> ever since designfiles.org went down i haven't put up a proper mirror for skdb packages
00:03 < timschmidt> ~/.skdb avoids this problem
00:04 < kanzure> so gnusha.org/skdb/packages seems like a good place?
00:04 < fenn> org.gnusha/trunk/skdb/packages
00:05 < kanzure> and gnusha.org/skdb/packages/metadata.tar.gz should have a fresh snapshot of most metadata.yaml files? or something
00:05 < fenn> wait, were you serious?
00:05 < kanzure> how does dpkg do metadata fetching?
00:05 < kanzure> yes..
00:05 < kanzure> designfiles.org/packages/ used to have the 5 basic .skdb packages plus the few thousand from thingiverse
00:05 < kanzure> which was what skdb/clients/skdb-get.py grabbed things from
00:05 < fenn> oh, that was a url. http://gnusha.org/skdb/packages/
00:06 < kanzure> i have no clue why you think i would be making a java reference
00:06  * fenn stares at the floor
00:07 < kanzure> ok so that's the basic configuration for the package manager.. half of the spec :)
00:07 < fenn> jebba: for installing some hardware packages that are physically controlled by the PC you will need root, but this will be a while
00:08 < kanzure> i think the other half is a man page that explains wtf it should do in which situations
00:08 < fenn> why didn't you download the contents of the thingiverse packages when you scraped it?
00:09 < fenn> downloading nonexistent metadata is... an interesting philosophical exercise
00:09 < kanzure> plz restate your question
00:09 < fenn> when you scraped thingiverse, you didn't download any .stl files for instance
00:09 < fenn> or images
00:10 < fenn> was it just the page text?
00:10 < kanzure> yes
00:10 < kanzure> but i also scraped into an easy variable a list of file urls for downloading
00:10 < kanzure> i just never got around to actually downloading those files
00:10 < kanzure> actually..
00:10 < kanzure> there's two things going on
00:10 < joshcryer> Are you considering the pages themselves the "packages"?
00:10 < fenn> joshcryer: no
00:10 < kanzure> 1) an original thingiverse scrape i did in february 2010 that did not download the files
00:11 < kanzure> 2) a second scrape in march 2010 that's on designfiles.org
00:11 < kanzure> my backup of designfiles.org is from february, not march
00:11 < kanzure> #2 has the files downloaded. #1 has significantly less 'things' than the 4000~ that were existing in march.
00:11 < fenn> joshcryer: the original page, all the files on the page, and all its derivatives and their files
00:12 < kanzure> sample: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/contraptor-perforated-angle-metadata.yaml
00:12 < fenn> hm, does yaml not do unicode natively? why would it say !!python/unicode everywhere
00:12 < joshcryer> fenn, yeah, gotcha. It's just that the metadata is really shitty here, you got derivatives, tags, required tools, possibly title, and the data files. I dunno, I admire anyone who can turn this into something useful. It's more of a social networking site, imvho.
00:13 < kanzure> yaml can do unicode just fine (meetlog.txt does it)
00:13 < kanzure> it was probably my python fucking up
00:13 < fenn> joshcryer: it's better than nothing
00:14 < fenn> unfortunately 99% of the content is pure crap
00:14 < kanzure> i wonder if i should ask matt for designfiles.org
00:14 < kanzure> i mean, for the server. he seems to be redirecting the domain to graphsynth.com
00:14 < joshcryer> fenn, not hating, I spent about 10 minutes just now looking around (been awhile since I've been on thingyverse).
00:15 < joshcryer> feen, need a categorizing method so that users themselves can self-categorize others' works.
00:15 < kanzure> you mean tagging?
00:15 < joshcryer> kanzure, I don't have an account, can other people tag someones work?
00:16 < kanzure> on thingiverse? i don't know/care
00:16 < timschmidt> I don't think so
00:17 < fenn> hmm interesting, does thingiverse have a "no handguns" rule? http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5533  or just a "no dongs" rule
00:17 < joshcryer> kanzure, they are more on the social networking side of things than anything (which is fine), but they can exploit some of that energy making people give the stuff proper dang metadata. :)
00:17 < timschmidt> fenn: I'm not sure it has either
00:17 < fenn> you shuold always be able to tag another person's work
00:17 < jebba> ya, users can tag other users stuff in thingiverse (just looked)
00:18 < timschmidt> oh yes, you're right
00:18 < kanzure> next steps on gitduino.com are still rendering images for each commit
00:18 < joshcryer> Ahh then that helps then.
00:19 < joshcryer> I'll have to get an account.
00:19 < kanzure> i haven't done that yet- partially because re-learning ikiwiki to the point of writing beautiful/useful perl is a pain in the ass
00:19 < kanzure> i wrote a front-end in django that uses PAM and basically mimics piny in a number of ways, so users can setup git hosting from a web interface (instead of ikiwiki)
00:19 < kanzure> which slightly helps development speed.. but makes jrayhawk sad inside
00:20 < kanzure> (i can still use ikiwiki for rendering/compiling pages of course)
00:20 < kanzure> timschmidt: i know i've been telling you for about 1.5 months now that i'd have this done
00:20 < kanzure> i'm sorry :/
00:21 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@223.sub-174-252-216.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:21 < joshcryer> oh neat: http://www.thingiverse.com/jebba
00:21 < joshcryer> :D
00:21 < joshcryer> (saw on the front page)
00:22 < timschmidt> kanzure: it's OK
00:22 < jebba> oh cool, heh, just added it cuz of this discussion ;)
00:24 < kanzure> fenn: i had some old thingiverse scraping related code laying around in my skdb repo
00:24 < kanzure> so it's committed now.. not anything spectacular
00:24  * kanzure wonders when gnusha will tweet it
00:24 < kanzure> jrayhawk: remote: 2011/01/15 00:24:24 socat[19547] E connect(3, AF=1 "/home/gnusha/.irssi/socket", 28): No such file or directory
00:26 < kanzure> fenn: please consider what the 'man pages' should be for an skdb package manager and what switches or things it should do in various situations
00:28 < timschmidt> kanzure: we can mostly work that out as we go
00:28 < timschmidt> my initial concern is to have something that functions _minimally_.
00:28 < timschmidt> So I can start feeding it packages
00:29 < timschmidt> we can get a feedback loop going from there
00:29 < timschmidt> So really feature 1: it runs, feature 2: it does dependency resolution, feature 3: it can download packages from somewhere
00:29 < timschmidt> everything else is bonus
00:31 < timschmidt> it'll be easier to make concrete design decisions after we have something doing _something_
00:31 < CryptoQuick> joshcryer: I'm making a business card, thoughts?
00:31 < CryptoQuick> http://cq.1k.ru/rect3097.png
00:31 < timschmidt> so we can see what works, and what doesn't
00:33 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:33 < timschmidt> plan to throw one away, release early and often, and all that
00:38 < kanzure> fenn: skdb-get.py doesn't count as a minimal dependency resolver because it imports skdb.Package and all the other cruft.. a lot of which is unnecessary?
00:38  * kanzure sleeps
00:39 < joshcryer> 'night kanzure_
00:45 < joshcryer> later CryptoQuick, passing out
00:45 < CryptoQuick> joshcryer: later
00:45 < CryptoQuick> me too
00:48 < kanzure> blah sebastien is complaining about gitduino's slow progress
00:49 < jrayhawk> oh yeah, i should fix that
00:49 -!- CryptoQuick [~CryptoQui@c-174-51-232-237.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: CryptoQuick]
00:50 < kanzure> other quick things:
00:50 < timschmidt> kanzure: my fault
00:51 < timschmidt> (sorry)
00:51 < kanzure> nanoengineer fails to run for a really lame reason (some hard-coded version check) but all of the really intricate things that you'd expect to fail don't.
00:51 < kanzure> lolcad.git has been updated with some random stuff from the last two days
00:51 < kanzure> timschmidt: what?
00:52 < timschmidt> kanzure: I suggested to sebastien (because of some discussion on #reprap) that, if it was easy, and someone was willing to do it, we should not preclude having the reprap wiki show the most recently edited articles in a given category on the front page of #reprap
00:52 -!- nchaimov [~cowtown@c-71-59-157-3.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nchaimov]
00:52 < timschmidt> he decided it would be better to wait on gitduino than do anything to the current mediawiki install
00:52 < timschmidt> at which point, I'm sure he emailed you
00:53 < timschmidt> so...  my bad
00:53 < kanzure> hrm
00:53 < kanzure> quick random mediawiki plugins are probably fine imho
00:54 < timschmidt> that's what I thought
00:54 < kanzure> it's not reasonable to wait on me to finish gitduino for /every/ task related to reprap.org
00:54 < timschmidt> forwarding the email
00:54 < timschmidt> forwarded
00:54 < kanzure> also if anyone has suggestions on whether or not i should commit this patch to nanoengineer.git i would heart you dearly
00:54 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/nanoengineer-dev/browse_thread/thread/b7bb0576fdc6cd5f
00:55 < kanzure> timschmidt: oh, a "recently updated" thing on mediawiki is like the most popular plugin.. yeah
00:55 < timschmidt> feel free to poke sebastien
00:56 < kanzure> nah i'm sleeping
00:56 < timschmidt> clearly
00:56 < timschmidt> :P
01:07 -!- wrldpc2 [~benny@58-89-241-58.nttmil.net] has left ##hplusroadmap []
01:12 -!- nchaimov [~cowtown@c-71-59-157-3.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:27 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-74-74-152-155.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:40 < Utopiah> http://biox.stanford.edu/grant/r5_iip_riedel.html
01:48 -!- Lukas__ [44c29d04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.194.157.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:48 < Lukas__> Good morning
01:48 < JayDugger> Good morning, Lukas.
01:49 < Lukas__> What's up?
01:59 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@223.sub-174-252-216.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:01 -!- Utopiah [~libre@rps7452.ovh.net] has quit [Quit: have to fix that server...]
02:06 < JayDugger> A discussion with links to photos of a shapercube. See http://gnusha.org/logs/2011-01-14.log
02:06 -!- niftyzero1 [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:14 -!- niftyzero1 [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:23 < Lukas__> thanks
02:24 < JayDugger> You're welcome. Happy reading!
02:29 < Lukas__> sorry, but can I get a tl;dr version?  (sorry, teenage brains suck)
02:29 < Lukas__> :D
02:30 < Lukas__> wait a minute
02:30 < Lukas__> ... interesting
02:30 < JayDugger> What do you mean "tl;dr"? I won't be a teenager again until the late 2080s.
02:31 < Lukas__> XD
02:31 < Lukas__> Too long; didn't read
02:32 < JayDugger> XD? The local vernacular confounds me.
02:32 < JayDugger> Ah.
02:32 < JayDugger> And XD?
02:33 < JayDugger> Try C-f for "shaper" to skip to the highlight.s
02:33 < Lukas__> sorry, I often make the assumption that the internet is populated by my age group or younger
02:34 < JayDugger> I often make the same assumption.
02:34 < Lukas__> If I am correct, I am the youngest person here
02:34 < Lukas__> so much of my vocabulary comes from recent memes
02:34 < JayDugger> Possibly. Anyway--what do you mean by "XD"?
02:34 < Lukas__> look at it sideways
02:34 < Lukas__> tilt your head
02:34 < JayDugger> Oh.
02:34 < Lukas__> yup
02:35 < JayDugger> Not :P ?
02:35 < Lukas__> that's more of a teasing face
02:35 < JayDugger> Got it.
02:35 < uniqanomaly> rather mental retardation
02:35 < Lukas__> XD = LOL
02:35 < Lukas__> basically
02:35 < JayDugger> No worries.
02:36 < Lukas__> At any rate
02:36 < Lukas__> This Supercube is quite interesting
02:36 < JayDugger> Shapercube. Its price tag killed my interest, and I don't have to pay VAT.
02:37 < Lukas__> What does the cost look like?
02:37 < JayDugger> Over US$1200.
02:37 < Lukas__> D:
02:38 < Lukas__> :(
02:38 < JayDugger> And you'd pay VAT.
02:38 < Lukas__> My dreams are once more dashed to the rocks
02:39 < uniqanomaly> Lukas__: don't worry, you'll get used to it
02:39 < JayDugger> Look at it this way. Open a targeted savings account on-line, automatically put away a little money, and wait for the intersection of compound interest and improving technology to make the device or its more capable successor affordable.
02:42 < Lukas__> Well, hopefully the price will be lower in 4 years time
02:43 < JayDugger> I doubt it will cost less, but you might well buy something more capable in 2015 for the same price. Inflation-adjusted, you'll get something better and cheaper.
02:46 < Lukas__> true, though I'll doubt I have the money anyway
02:46 < JayDugger> You'll most likely outlive the problem of youthful poverty.
02:47 < Lukas__> :D
02:49 < Lukas__> I'll probably go to grad school right after anyway
02:50 < Lukas__> so in about 10 years
02:50 < Lukas__> I'll probably be looking to buy
02:58 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-74-74-152-155.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
03:36 -!- Lukas__ [44c29d04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.194.157.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
03:48 -!- Utopiah [~libre@rps7452.ovh.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:57 -!- elmom [~elmom@hoasnet-fe29dd00-137.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:07 -!- niftyzero1 [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
04:15 -!- niftyzero1 [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:29 -!- Utopiah [~libre@rps7452.ovh.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:21 -!- Lukas__ [44c29d04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.194.157.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:50 -!- Lukas__ [44c29d04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.194.157.4] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
06:40 -!- jenzebubble [brown@173-19-237-103.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:43 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-74-74-152-155.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:06 -!- jenzebubble is now known as jennicide
07:25 -!- elmom [~elmom@hoasnet-fe29dd00-137.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:58 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:19 -!- elmom [~elmom@hoasnet-fe29dd00-137.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:20 < kanzure> zotero bibliographies are up http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/bibliographies/?C=S;O=D
08:21 < kanzure> for the lols? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/bodybuilding/
08:24 < kanzure> huh why is there no Aubrey/
08:25 -!- elmom [~elmom@hoasnet-fe29dd00-137.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:26 < kanzure> mostly uploaded: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/microfluidics/
08:54 < archels> Why is it taking forever to upload 12GB?
09:39 -!- loopa [~loopa@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:46 -!- gloop [638cce9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.206.155] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:06 -!- gloop [638cce9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.206.155] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
10:20 -!- gloop [~gloop@adsl-99-140-206-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:20 < gloop> "Watson consists of ten racks of IBM Power 750 Linux servers with 15TB of memory. It has 2,880 CPU cores to process a question, search for the answer and produce it in less than three seconds. µ"
10:20 < gloop> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1937273/ibm-beats-human-jeopardy-champs
10:24 < kanzure> archels my isp limits my upload bandwidth
10:57 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:05 < archels> ah, lame.
11:06 < archels> (Watson too :) )
11:07 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
11:09 < AlonzoTG> om
11:42 < kanzure> Preliminary Feasibility Study for The Biological Production of L-Dopa, Mescaline and Tryptamines by Intact Recombinant Yeast Cells Using Only Common Amino Acids as Precursors to Bioenzymatic Synthesis
11:42 < kanzure> http://www.mescaline.com/misc/index.html
11:42 < kanzure> stalk: dm_telvis@yahoo.com
11:43 < kanzure> fiaof93@rocketmail.com
11:56 < kanzure> NASA/synthetic biology announcements http://syntheticbiology.arc.nasa.gov/
11:56 < kanzure> 01-11-10 NASA Seeks Space Technology Graduate Fellowship Applicants deadline Feb 23rd.
11:56 < kanzure> 01-11-10 Deadline for hiring research fellows is Jan 21st :: synthetic biology research lab.
11:56 < kanzure> 12-14-10 Send your comments about the role of synthetic biology in NASA's Space Technology Roadmaps
11:56 < kanzure> synthetic biology in NASA's space technology roadmap http://syntheticbiology.arc.nasa.gov/node/12
12:05 -!- strages [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:26 -!- gloop [~gloop@adsl-99-140-206-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:28 -!- CryptoQuick [~CryptoQui@c-174-51-232-237.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:29 -!- alystair [Alystair@76.68.120.100] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:39 -!- augur_ [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:40 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services]
12:41 -!- augur_ is now known as augur
12:41 -!- qgqg [~qg@rtfm.insomnia.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:43 -!- AlonzoTG1 [~atg@dsl092-168-049.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:47 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: jmil, JayDugger, AlonzoTG, QuantumG, jebba
12:53 -!- Netsplit over, joins: JayDugger
12:55 -!- jebba [~jebba@jebba.cwx.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:55 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:57 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:00 < AlonzoTG1> om
13:01 < uniqanomaly> http://asset.soup.io/asset/1446/3581_f1a6.png
13:02 < CryptoQuick> nice :)
13:06 -!- jmil_ [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:06 -!- strages_ [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:07 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
13:07 -!- strages [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
13:07 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
13:08 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:13 < fenn> Watson is a Linux system that is powered by 10 refrigerator-sized racks of IBM POWER 750, with 15 terabytes of RAM and 2,880 processor cores. and it plays jeopardy.
13:14 < drazak> .... "refrigerator sized"
13:15 < drazak> aka the size of a standard rack
13:16 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-87-105-21-108.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:17 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-87-105-21-108.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:18 < kanzure> i was hoping it had something to do with a refrigerator, but now i'm guessing it's IBM's watson :/
13:19 < CryptoQuick> but does it play Crysis?
13:19 < kanzure> play Crysis? it hosts Crysis
13:19 < CryptoQuick> oh, cool
13:24 -!- gleapsite [~Gleapsite@190.sub-75-197-63.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:26 < kanzure> http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2011/01/yes-the-singularity-is-the-biggest-threat-to-humanity/
13:26 < kanzure> "Some folks, like Aaron Saenz of Singularity Hub, were surprised that the NPR piece framed the Singularity as “the biggest threat to humanity”, but that’s exactly what the Singularity is."
13:27 < kanzure> yay fearmongering
13:28 < CryptoQuick> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2075
13:28 < kanzure> TEDxCaltech—Feynman’s Vision: The Next 50 Years http://tedxcaltech.com/about
13:28 < kanzure> speakers: http://tedxcaltech.com/speakers
13:28 < AlonzoTG1> =\
13:29 < kanzure> De novo designed proteins from a library of artificial sequences function in Escherichia coli and enable cell growth
13:29 < kanzure> paper: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0015364
13:29 < kanzure> in the news: http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=4350
13:30 < kanzure> freitas' Comprehensive Nanorobotic Control of Human Morbidity and Aging http://www.nanomedicine.com/Papers/Aging.pdf
13:30 -!- gleapsite1 [~Gleapsite@190.sub-75-197-63.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:30 < gleapsite1> I'm surprised. Who would have thought that something like nanoengineer would be complicated.
13:30 -!- gleapsite [~Gleapsite@190.sub-75-197-63.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:30 -!- niftyzero1 [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:30 < kanzure> ^from the ridiculously expensive book "The Future of Aging" http://www.amazon.com/Future-Aging-Pathways-Human-Extension/dp/9048139988
13:30 -!- gleapsite1 is now known as gleapsite
13:31 < kanzure> gleapsite1: heh it's a rather large code base that's for sure..
13:32 < gleapsite> I've clone it locally
13:32 < kanzure> today i was actually playing around with getting it running again..
13:32 -!- niftyzero1 [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:33 < kanzure> it failed to run at a really stupid thing-- none of the complex shit broke, but rather a hardcoded version check for one of its own modules
13:33 < kanzure> one of the .mmp file handlers or something
13:34 < gleapsite> yeah. I'm currently downloading the snapshot build
13:34 < gleapsite> I think I need to do a lot more setup to get a local build environment going though
13:34 < gleapsite> I don't even have gcc on this machine >.<
13:35 < kanzure> that's more likely to fail but if you want the snapshot to work there's these helpful hints:
13:35 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/compile_nanoengineer
13:35 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/NE1InstallScriptFragment
13:36 < gleapsite> yeah. my personal dev computer is win7,  though I bet I could get a debian VM up and running
13:36 < kanzure> theoretically this should run on windows too. dunno what the build process is like though
13:37 < kanzure> btw please post notes/complaints to http://groups.google.com/group/nanoengineer-dev via emailing nanoengineer-dev@googlegroups.com
13:37 < gleapsite> roger wilco.
13:38 < gleapsite> for pure python builds on win I usually use cxfreeze.
13:38 < kanzure> one of the primary ne-1 developers was a windows user so he made sure things kept stable
13:39 < gleapsite> also, re: the future of aging, I've been led to believe by my bio/bioinformatics friends that telemorase is key
13:39 < kanzure> eh
13:39 < kanzure> well.. sort of.
13:39 < kanzure> there's a lot of other things going on, like the WnT regulatory network, immune system/stem cell issues, mitochondrial buildup, etc.
13:40 < kanzure> if my upload will ever finish, i have about ~400 papers collected on http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/longevity/ that i can actually cite
13:40 < kanzure> instead of handwavin :x
13:40 < gleapsite> that dir is empty
13:40 < kanzure> yeah the upload isn't finished. heh'
13:42 < kanzure> here's an index: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/longevity_papers.txt
13:44 < kanzure> (it's also quicker to upload specific requests, btw.)
13:44 < gleapsite> fair enough
13:44 < gleapsite> nanoengineer is up and running.  just played a video of a nanocar simulation
13:45 < kanzure> from the snapshot?
13:45 < gleapsite> yeah
13:45 < kanzure> did you take any magic steps that i should pester you to document?
13:46 < gleapsite> downloaded .exe.  ran.  selected full install (to include the snapshot's source as a backup to my git clone).  let it run
13:46 < gleapsite> as easy as installing firefox.
13:46  * kanzure is listening to http://di.fm/mp3/vocaltrance.pls
13:46 < kanzure> ah that's right, windows
13:47 < kanzure> yeah i guess i never tested the windows snapshot- glad that works :)
13:47  * gleapsite is listening to http://somafm.com/play/missioncontrol
13:48 < kanzure> heh
13:48 < kanzure> not bad
13:50 < kanzure> gleapsite: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/longevity/aging_roadmap.txt
13:50 < kanzure> eightpennies is a brazilian elderly gentleman who is working on a DIY stem cell rejuvenation therapy protocol for himself
13:50 < kanzure> not wanting to age too much or.. uh, die
13:52 < kanzure> he once brought up a good point to me.. not many of the longevity researchers seriously read literature; if you keep up 5 papers/day for a year, you'll be an 'expert' (depending on how you personally digest or make sense of SCIENCE) or at least have a clear sense of what needs to get done
14:01 < gleapsite> similar to gladwells assertion that it takes ~10,000 hours of study in a given task to no longer be an amateur.
14:02 < gleapsite> well, i"ve no background in chem/bio science above 101 and piercing/implants.
14:04 < archels> are you lepht?
14:04 < gleapsite> No. I'm a male
14:04 < gleapsite> but she's pretty awesome
14:04 < gleapsite> we've used similar tech
14:05 < fenn> did you at least use a real disinfectant?
14:05 < fenn> anaesthetics?
14:05 < fenn> come on
14:05 < gleapsite> our RFID implants cost ~60$ for two people
14:05 < fenn> why would you want an rfid implant anyway
14:05 < gleapsite> so I can wave my hand, say open seaseme and my house unlocks
14:06 < mjr> To get front-row seats in Hell with your very own mark of the Beast!
14:06 < gleapsite> no anaesthetics. cutting the dermis w/ a scalpel is really more about overcoming your sense of self-preservation than enduring any pain.  piercing hurts more
14:06 < mjr> 'scuse me, what I meant to say was, "cool"
14:07 < gleapsite> mjr: its on my left hand, the mark of the beast is on the forehead or the right hand and is mandated for participation in the markets.
14:08 < fenn> i think we're all atheists and can stop seriously responding to that question
14:08 < mjr> meh, why'd you go and do a stupid thing like putting it into the wrong hand
14:08 < fenn> gleapsite: how close do you have to be to the sensor to read the rfid chip?
14:08 < gleapsite> for sterilization, we had a metal plat that we steralized w/ disinfectant, scrubbed above the elbows w/ anti-bacterial stuff and used a hydrogen peroxide soak on our dermal separators and forceps.  the scalpels were autoclaved.
14:09 < gleapsite> fenn: depends on the power of the reader
14:09 < fenn> also, where did you get the chip?
14:09 < gleapsite> we're using redbee readers.  when powered via USB you can't get a read through the skin
14:10 < gleapsite> powered via 12V... about 5cm
14:10 < gleapsite> trossen robotics. hang on i'll get a link
14:10 < gleapsite> we also used a hydrogen peroxide soak to sterilize them
14:11 < gleapsite> in a shot glass if memory serves me correctly
14:11 < AlonzoTG1> What is the topic right now?
14:11 < gleapsite> feen: http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/p/3618-Extra-Small-Glass-Ampoule-Tag.aspx
14:12 -!- niftyzero1 [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:12 < fenn> gleapsite: why not just get a thumbprint reader?
14:13 < gleapsite> fenn: or a keychain rfid?
14:14 < gleapsite> its about becoming a cyborg, and learning how to implant moreso than convenience or security
14:14 < fenn> but there's nothing cybernetic about it
14:14 < gleapsite> in lopht's words: health and safety takes a big fuckoff second seat to curiosity
14:15 < fenn> are you sure you're not just being macho and posturing?
14:15 < gleapsite> fenn: with the exception of the face that I implanted a wireless computer into my body, you're correct it in no way interfaces with my biology.
14:15 < gleapsite> could be
14:15 < gleapsite> but RFID chips are a safe first implant
14:16 < gleapsite> my next one is going to be a neodymium magnet, I haven't decided weather this will be DIY, or haworth
14:16 < gleapsite> its more than posturing, its learning
14:17 < AlonzoTG1> I've heard that there's a cancer risk with RFID, besides, it's not something I want...
14:17 -!- strages_ [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:17 -!- niftyzero1 [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:18 < gleapsite> Fair enough I'm not trying to say everyone should be chipped. IDK about cancer,  but I smoke anyway.
14:19 < fenn> if there's a cancer risk from rfid, then there's a cancer risk from microwave ovens, cellphones, cars, computers, fluorescent lights, and satellites orbiting hundreds of miles above your head
14:20 < fenn> but i don't believe that particular conspiracy theory
14:20 < gleapsite> most of those are HERP safe
14:20 < gleapsite> which doesn't mean that there's 0 cancer risk, just that its within "safe levels"
14:21 < fenn> it means it won't cook you from the inside
14:21 < fenn> there's absolutely zero causal link between RF and cancer
14:22 < gleapsite> so electromagnetic radiation doesn't cause cancer?  or just the radio freqs?
14:22 < fenn> UV light and gamma rays are also electromagnetic radiation, and do cause cancer
14:22 < gleapsite> yes.
14:23 < AlonzoTG1> no, it's the glass casing,
14:23 < AlonzoTG1> it's not bio-compatible, irritates surrounding tissues eventually leading to cancer.
14:23 < kanzure> gleapsite: do you at least know about wireless/induction powering?
14:23 < fenn> i think this whole thing comes from the fact that schools are placed in low property value areas, and people start noticing when kids get cancer and freak out
14:23 < fenn> power lines and cell phone towers are also placed in low property value areas
14:23 < kanzure> (i hope yes because of your last job)
14:23 < gleapsite> kanzure: yes
14:24 < gleapsite> I also know about stuff like bistatic radiation, antenna patterns, HERO/HERP/MAE
14:24 < kanzure> ooh antenna patterns
14:24 < gleapsite> I know modulation theory, sampling/interpolating
14:25 < kanzure> sorry antennas are more cool.
14:25 < gleapsite> indeed
14:25 < gleapsite> I've wanted to strap a 2.4GHz wifi cantenna to a scavenged directTV dish and see how far I can get
14:26 < fenn> do you know about the fabfi project?
14:26 < gleapsite> was part of a plan to set up a rural WISP a while back, but the laws, such as they are, are pretty prohibitive to that effect
14:26 < gleapsite> no
14:26 < kanzure> wireless mesh stuff with open source hardware
14:26 < kanzure> right? i might be bullshitting
14:26 < fenn> http://wiki.fablab.af/index.php/Fab-Fi
14:27 < gleapsite> but w/ wireless mesh you need omnis.  which means either a high pop-density or ramping up the power (illegal via FCC mandates)
14:27 < kanzure> iirc this was afghanistan
14:28 < fenn> there's a stunning lack of pictures on that page
14:28 < gleapsite> the WISP i was looking as setting up was separated by more than the range of a standard wifi aentenna's range.  which is why I was looking into directionals
14:28 < kanzure> "فدرالي مخابراتي کميسون" or something
14:28 < fenn> there's also http://ronja.twibright.com/ which is point to point optical
14:29 < kanzure> fenn: don't the fablab people mostly opt to use flikr?
14:29 < fenn> no, just todd and peretz
14:29 < fenn> amy has her own image gallery software
14:29 < kanzure> well that's stupid.
14:29 < fenn> smari doesn't post pictures at all :\
14:29 < fenn> what's stupid?
14:30 < kanzure> just more media lab elitism or forgetting to make things public or something
14:30 < gleapsite> the other problem I encountered, was Virginia pine trees.  the needles are a 1/4 wavelength of 2.4GHz and they're excellent at dropping the SNR
14:30 < fenn> kanzure: it's because they're more worried about making sure people at the fablab know how to do things than whether the internet knows what they're doing
14:33 < kanzure> oh crap, ne-1 is the one that makes a ~/Nanorex isn't it?
14:33 < kanzure> yeah that's definitely going to be fixed
14:34 < gleapsite> kanzure: it drops it in my user directory in win too.
14:34 < kanzure> sucks
14:36 < kanzure> backtracking why main.py segfaults is a pain in the ass
14:37 < kanzure> how do i not have gdb installed?
14:39 -!- gleapsite [~Gleapsite@190.sub-75-197-63.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:40 -!- gleapsite [~Gleapsite@190.sub-75-197-63.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:48 < kanzure> jrayhawk: fenn found a weird cgit thing going on with skdb.git yesterday
14:48 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/logs/2011-01-14.log
14:48 < kanzure> starting at 23:51ish
14:49 < kanzure> know what's going on?
14:56 -!- Helleshin [~Helleshin@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
15:01 < jrayhawk> That is one damnably weird bug.
15:02 < jrayhawk> Yeah, I guess it must be retarded about that 'data' path.
15:06 < jrayhawk> oh, no, i see. The 'plain' links are a little inconsistent about having a trailing / when they are supposed to consistently have a trailing /
15:06 < jrayhawk> Because it's using relative links everywhere.
15:06 < jrayhawk> I'll go see if I can update cgit.
15:08 < kanzure> cool.
15:13 -!- singularity2025 [4672cd6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.114.205.110] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:13 < kanzure> hrm
15:14 -!- singularity2025 [4672cd6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.114.205.110] has quit [Client Quit]
15:17 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure_] by ChanServ
15:37 < fenn> wait a minute, what is smari doing in afghanistan
15:39 < kanzure> fenn: any hints on how to trace my segfault in ne-1? python isn't being very helpful
15:39 < kanzure> and main.py is like 15 layers on top of whatever is actually happening
15:40 < kanzure> strace wasn't helpful either.
15:52 -!- jebba1 [~jebba@jebba.cwx.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:53 -!- jebba [~jebba@jebba.cwx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
16:02 -!- MichaelA [~michaelan@c-24-130-114-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:10 < kanzure> hi MichaelA
16:10 < fenn> ddd or pdb
16:10 < kanzure> thx
16:10 < kanzure> also, i'm pretty sure this is michael anissimov
16:10 < fenn> i've never used pdb though
16:11 < fenn> hello MichaelA
16:11 < kanzure> fenn: i use pdb.set_trace() inline from time to time
16:12 < fenn> i like this "beer for data" program
16:12 < fenn> they have a
16:13 < fenn> hard drive in the bar, you can put whatever data on it you think others might find useful, and you get a beer each time you do this
16:17 < fenn> more info about the watson supercomputer http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs124/AIMagzine-DeepQA.pdf
16:19 -!- qgqg is now known as QuantumG
16:19 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@c-67-163-156-123.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:21 < joshcryer> I saw the Watson demo.
16:21 < joshcryer> I think he'll win.
16:22 < MichaelA> hello fenn
16:22 < MichaelA> hi Bryan
16:22 < joshcryer> Ken Jennings has stated repeatedly that having buzzer control is one of the best ways to win because there's a trick to getting buzzed first.
16:26 < kanzure> timschmidt: dunno if it's relevant to the reprap-dev thread,
16:26 < kanzure> but i've put in some time to reverse engineering the solidworks file format
16:26 < kanzure> i'm not 100% of the way there yet but there has been progress.. of sorts.
16:26 < timschmidt> yeah...  not really relevant IMHO.
16:26 < timschmidt> It's nice to have
16:26 < timschmidt> would be great to be able to import files from that format
16:27 < kanzure> if you want to import parametric models into solidworks, it's relevant
16:27 < timschmidt> but it's still not a great format for doing new work in
16:27 < kanzure> true but there's information loss at the moment going from .sldprt->basically anything
16:27 < timschmidt> indeed
16:27 < kanzure> .sldprt->parasolid seems to preserve parametric deets
16:28 < timschmidt> it'd be nice to have
16:38 < kanzure> MichaelA: what are you up to?
16:38 < MichaelA> hm
16:38 < MichaelA> :(
16:38 < MichaelA> busy
16:39 < MichaelA> I want to film myself but keep thinking something is wrong
16:39 < MichaelA> internal SIAI stuff, blah blah blah endless discussion
16:40 < MichaelA> running for H+ board, hehe
16:40 < MichaelA> popularity contest!
16:40 < kanzure> i saw.
16:40 < kanzure> MichaelA: why does h+ have members?
16:40 < MichaelA> great lineup, all fine transhumanists
16:40 < MichaelA> because it's cheap?
16:41 < kanzure> i tried to convince the board to dump that concept but it was a no go
16:41 < MichaelA> I would make $20/mo. minimum if it were my choice
16:41 < MichaelA> maybe $30
16:41 < kanzure> uh? yeah but why would anyone join
16:41 < MichaelA> dump cheap concept?
16:41 < kanzure> yes
16:41 < MichaelA> groups are useless unless the people in them actually care about them
16:41 < MichaelA> my objective is to muscle my way into everyone's life and bring us all together in a profound way
16:41 < kanzure> h+ was thinking about a super secret private social networking website for h+ members, but that's useless
16:42 < kanzure> and competing with facebook or anything else isn't really appealing or useful for transhuman tech projects
16:42 < MichaelA> what's a communal project?  90% of what I see are exceptional individuals
16:42 < kanzure> what do you think of gadaprize.org as a direction for h+?
16:42 < MichaelA> eh, whatever, if we want to acquire it, we already have, sure
16:43 < MichaelA> the Gada prize will never be claimed
16:43 < MichaelA> doesn't it have a near-future time limit?
16:43 < kanzure> uh i arranged for it to be hosted at humanity+
16:43 < timschmidt> what makes you say that?
16:43 < kanzure> lots of people are already about to win it
16:43 < timschmidt> indeed
16:43 < kanzure> MichaelA: my question was more about "directly using money to get these TODO items done" and whether or not you find that agreeable
16:44 < kanzure> i.e. reprap/diybio cross-over transhumanist goodness
16:44 < MichaelA> Um
16:44 < MichaelA> I am very confused by the page
16:44 < kanzure> gadaprize.org is already in the h+ portfolio and another $80k is lined up shortly
16:44 < MichaelA> it seems to describe three prizes
16:44 < kanzure> yes
16:44 < kanzure> the text says the interim prize is funded
16:44 < MichaelA> "prize criteria" is at the top, that describes one prize
16:44 < kanzure> the grand prize is what everyone knows about (unfortunately) because foresight.org announced the grand prize first..
16:44 < MichaelA> then there's a "Grand challenge"
16:45 < MichaelA> yeah, that's what I knew about because I heard the person who founded the prize give a talk and asked him questions...
16:45 < kanzure> kartik? right
16:45 < kanzure> yeah, i'm not sure if we're going to keep the grand prize format though
16:45 < MichaelA> wait, what's the time limit?
16:45 < kanzure> i mean, for $80k, we can basically just *pay* for these innovations to be built/happen
16:45 < kanzure> for the interim prize it's end of 2012. for the grand prize it's end of 2015
16:46 < MichaelA> print circuit boards?  really.  didn't IBM invest millions in silver for that and they're still working?
16:46 < kanzure> repraps can do PCBs already..
16:46 < MichaelA> if circuit boards could be printed for $80K, why isn't it already reality?
16:46 < kanzure> printable PCBs are way cheaper than that
16:46 < kanzure> and they *are* a reality
16:46 < MichaelA> well, no one mentioned that at the last Make festival
16:47 < kanzure> make sucks
16:47 < kanzure> timschmidt: am i getting my facts all wrong? jump in
16:47 < MichaelA> can I have the link to the web page that describes the circuit-board printing RepRaps?
16:47 < MichaelA> not on thingiverse
16:47 < kanzure> MichaelA: people invest $$$ into "Intellectual Property" or whatever, and the money evaporates
16:47 < timschmidt> no, reprap can print at least one flavor of PCB already, and mendel has been used to mill PCBs as well.
16:47 < kanzure> timschmidt: can you give MichaelA some links for that? not thingiverse :)
16:48 < MichaelA> photographs?
16:48 < timschmidt> sure
16:48 < timschmidt> just a second
16:48 < MichaelA> sounds fantastic
16:48 < MichaelA> total cost under $200?  the current cost is $1000+
16:48 < kanzure> MichaelA: one of my skunkworks projects is gitduino.com to eventually replace thingiverse with something more metadata-friendly.
16:48 < kanzure> MichaelA: no that's makerbot.com you're thinking of
16:48 < MichaelA> what is the time limit of the prize and why isn't it obvious on the web page?
16:48 < kanzure> people can build a reprap for about $400 or less.. much less if you already have tools laying around
16:49 < timschmidt> http://reprap.org/wiki/Automated_Circuitry_Making
16:49 < kanzure> MichaelA: it is mentioned on the page, i told you- end of 2015
16:49 < timschmidt> relevant page
16:49 < timschmidt> http://reprap.org/wiki/File:Rampsbottom.jpg
16:49 < MichaelA> oh, sorry
16:49 < timschmidt> printed on a mendel
16:49 < kanzure> "with an award date of December 31, 2012. It is presently funded at $20,000."
16:49 < kanzure> "The Grand Prize is expected to be funded at $80,000 before launch (it is presently not funded)." basically meaning "this doesn't exist yet"
16:50 < MichaelA> these printed circuit boards seem extremely prototype-based and experimental, but OK
16:50 < timschmidt> as you can see, there are perhaps 10 different methods
16:50 < MichaelA> and yeah, I like the Gada prize
16:50 < timschmidt> most of them have been executed to "proof of concept" level
16:50 < MichaelA> the water prize seemed especially overambitious, though
16:50 < kanzure> yeah i'm not too fond of the water liberation prize either
16:50 < kanzure> especially since the results can be proprietary
16:50 < MichaelA> nowhere on this page does it say, "the circuit boards actually worked when we used them in application X": I happen to feel that personal identity is about far more than the "legal name" because we do not get to choose any of this for ourselves. I personally feel like my "legal identity" is a fiction, a mask I wear because I cannot as yet correct the dichotomy between my mental identity and the physical body I was trapped in
16:50 < MichaelA> d'oh
16:50 < kanzure> imho using $ for IPR or Intellectual Property is a serious mismanagement of non-profit orgs' funds at this point
16:51 < MichaelA> I meant to copy and paste: http://reprap.org/wiki/Automated_Circuitry_Making
16:51 < timschmidt> MichaelA: repraps aren't known for making mass-production quality stuff.  one-offs will always look a little dodgy
16:51 < MichaelA> yeah, like molds for pewter rings
16:52 < jrayhawk> Yeah, definitely (relatively) rapid turnaround prototyping rather than manufacturing.
16:53 -!- Helleshin [~Helleshin@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:53 < kanzure> heh MichaelA i don't know if you know jrayhawk
16:54 < timschmidt> http://builders.reprap.org/2010/03/open-source-circuit-boards-using-reprap.html
16:54 < timschmidt> this board was assembled and worked
16:54 -!- strages [~strages@wifi.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:55 < MichaelA> cool
16:55 < MichaelA> nice resolution
16:55 < jrayhawk> That's not too bad. Most people who do by-hand etching do worse.
16:56 < joshcryer> That's definitely cool.
16:56 < QuantumG> it's not 3d printing
16:56 < gleapsite> yeah its subtractive milling.
16:57 < MichaelA> "nice resolution" is sarcasm btw
16:57 < timschmidt> http://blog.reprap.org/2010/09/reprap-repraps-reprap-electronics.html
16:57 < timschmidt> that's Adrian's work
16:58 < MichaelA> Cool
16:58 < MichaelA> Adrian is brilliant
16:58 < MichaelA> anyway Bryan, if I really wanted to usher in a "transhumanist future" I'd probably focus on DMS, but I enjoy this RepRap stuff too
16:59 < kanzure> MichaelA: yeah, i've become the new maintainer for nanoengineer
16:59 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer
16:59 < kanzure> gallery: http://nanoengineer-1.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=50
16:59 < kanzure> it's open-source nanotech CAD for DMS-related-stuff
17:00 < joshcryer> DMS?
17:01 < kanzure> diamondoid mechanosyntesis
17:01 < kanzure> *mechanosynthesis
17:01 < kanzure> see: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/freitas_process.txt
17:01 < joshcryer> Ahh, thanks.
17:01 < joshcryer> Thanks.
17:02 < kanzure> that first link is p. good too http://www.molecularassembler.com/Papers/PathDiamMolMfg.htm#FreitasProcess
17:03 -!- MichaelA [~michaelan@c-24-130-114-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:05 < QuantumG> so, why can't you just 3d print a plastic part and 2d print conductive ink on both sides of the part?
17:05 < QuantumG> (to make a circuit board)
17:06 -!- MichaelA [~michaelan@c-24-130-114-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:06 < QuantumG> and use low heat conductive paste to connect the components to the ink tracks?
17:06 < gleapsite> got tech for 2d printing conductive ink at home?
17:07 < gleapsite> Its entirely possible, but at that point whhy not just photolith and attach to the 3d part?
17:08 < QuantumG> if you can do photolith under computer control, sure
17:09 < QuantumG> ok, let's forget about the PCB.. is anyone doing an at-home soldering machine?  (I know the answer is no :)
17:09 < timschmidt> IDK about conductive ink for the traces themselves, but resistive ink (carbon, really) has been printed onto a printed plastic substrate, then copper's been electro-dep'd onto the carbon traces.
17:10 < timschmidt> I've seen nice at-home vacuum pick-and-place, but I've not seen at home wave soldering
17:10 < timschmidt> hot plates work well :)
17:10 < QuantumG> someone's done electro-dep at home?
17:10 < timschmidt> yep
17:10 < QuantumG> url?
17:10 < timschmidt> DC current and some pennies
17:10 < timschmidt> :)
17:11 < timschmidt> http://blog.reprap.org/2009/10/copper-plating-wire-glue-definite.html
17:11 < gleapsite> http://steampunkworkshop.com/altoid-etch.shtml for some more DIY electroplating
17:12 < gleapsite> I've seen toaster ovens used for SMD reflow.  I haven't seen a DIY pick and place though.
17:13 < timschmidt> in my experience, hot plates work better than toaster ovens
17:14 < timschmidt> sparkfun did quite a large article
17:14 < timschmidt> comparing various at-home methods for SMT
17:15 < timschmidt> hot plates won out
17:16 < gleapsite> instead of milling out a circuit board, why not just 3dprint a solderless breadboard with voids for the contacts?
17:16 < gleapsite> fair enough.  I'll go read that.
17:17 < QuantumG> I wonder how many circuits of reprap could be implemented in an FPGA
17:17 < kanzure> i would like an ASIC reprap
17:18 < timschmidt> FIB!
17:19 < timschmidt> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Focused_ion_beam
17:19 < timschmidt> a.k.a. ASIC reprap
17:20 < QuantumG> The non-recurring engineering cost of an ASIC can run into the millions of dollars.  <- destroying that would be fun
17:20 < timschmidt> a FIB machine can use gallium ions to dope silicon an atom at a time...
17:20 < joshcryer> Meh, I'll yet convince you all that memristers are the future.
17:20 < QuantumG> although FPGAs sidestep that, they don't destroy it
17:20 < timschmidt> it's _already_ used to repair ASICs in the industry
17:21 < timschmidt> it's not used for mass production because it'd be FAR too slow
17:21 < timschmidt> but for one-offs, no problem
17:22 < kanzure> i am p. sure you can directly convert software to vhdl/verilog and just use that for your ASIC
17:23 < timschmidt> there's some work in that area, but no FPGAs are publicly documented, so compiling netlists, vhdl, verilog, whatever requires proprietary software.
17:24 < timschmidt> and it's (doing the compiling) an area that would benefit from public research...  it's an NP hard problem
17:24 < timschmidt> traveling salesman and all that
17:25  * timschmidt did a stint with the Open Graphics Project...  working with FPGAs
17:25 < gleapsite> True story. we used archaic solaris machines to compile VHDL for spartan3's at university just because the new licenses were to expensive.
17:28 < timschmidt> http://fpgac.sourceforge.net/
17:28 < timschmidt> best we've got
17:29 < gleapsite> I presume you all are familiar w/ Thompson combining FPGA's with genetic algorithms to produce evolvable hardware?
17:29 < gleapsite> http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/adrianth/ade.html
17:53 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:07 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:48 -!- strages [~strages@wifi.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
18:52 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:53 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:55 -!- MichaelA [~michaelan@c-24-130-114-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
19:25 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:40 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:47 -!- Lukas__ [44c29d04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.194.157.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:52 -!- Lukas__ [44c29d04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.194.157.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20:52 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
21:26 < kanzure> hi JayDugger
21:26 < kanzure> the longevity paperdump is now complete:
21:26 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/longevity/
21:27 < kanzure> not including aubrey de grey stuff.. i put that somewhere else for some strange reason
21:50 -!- strages [~strages@wifi.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:58 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/longevity/Aubrey.zip
21:58 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/longevity/Aubrey/
21:59 < kanzure> awful filenames. i'll have to fix that.
22:06 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@c-67-163-156-123.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:11 -!- gleapsite [~Gleapsite@190.sub-75-197-63.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:14 -!- keen_101 [~hulu@76.76.90.91] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:20 < fenn> http://stupidfilter.org/  now using support vector machines for classification
22:20 < fenn> demo doesn't seem to work
22:24 < fenn> zebrafish embryo development timelapse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx-cO_qBFtk
22:25 -!- keen_101 [~hulu@76.76.90.91] has left ##hplusroadmap []
22:26 < fenn>  The StupidFilter will cheerfully approve an eloquent, properly-capitalized defense of mandatory, state-subsidized rocket-launcher ownership for all schoolchildren.
22:35 < JayDugger> That will certainly filter out the stupid.
22:39 < fenn> why is the name "gabe ortiz" familiar?
22:47 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@c-67-163-156-123.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:53 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-75-194.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:16 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-75-194.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:33 < fenn> totally OT but i thought this was cool http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/05/03/business/20080403_SPENDING_GRAPHIC.html
23:34 < fenn> wish i could do a disk map like this
23:44 < JayDugger> I don't know about a voroni diagram, but your package manager probably has filelight.
23:45 < JayDugger> http://www.methylblue.com/filelight/
23:53 < fenn> yeah, filelight is meh
23:53 < fenn> gdmap is square meh
23:54 < fenn> they both don't allow me to actually do anything
23:55 < fenn> for example maybe i want to look at the file, or delete a group of files
23:58 < JayDugger> Filelight lets you right-click for a conext menu of various actions.
23:59 < fenn> last i checked filelight didnt even show individual files
--- Log closed Sun Jan 16 00:00:52 2011